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View Full Version : My groundstrokes, 3.5/4.0


RunningBeagle
01-11-2009, 04:11 AM
I'm changing my rating after getting whipped pretty badly. I used to say 4.5 but I don't have the net game to justify it. Here are some groundstrokes I filmed last night. YouTube decided they didn't want my video to have sound, so, I apologize on their behalf.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6AsGMB5RUU

ThA_Azn_DeViL
01-11-2009, 04:26 AM
Nice strokes, dont know if your asking for rating or for help, but if you want a good rate we have to see where your balls are landing.

RunningBeagle
01-11-2009, 04:33 AM
I'm just showing off ;-) I think a rating is determined by the people you play against and who you beat in competitive situations. This is just me and a hitting partner. I'm hitting right back to her.

I would like to do one where you can see where the balls are landing, but I'd need someone to hold the camera. People aren't really breaking my doors down for that opportunity. Otherwise, I wouldn't feel safe that the camera won't get hit.

ThA_Azn_DeViL
01-11-2009, 04:37 AM
I'm just showing off ;-) I think a rating is determined by the people you play against and who you beat in competitive situations. This is just me and a hitting partner. I'm hitting right back to her.

I would like to do one where you can see where the balls are landing, but I'd need someone to hold the camera. People aren't really breaking my doors down for that opportunity. Otherwise, I wouldn't feel safe that the camera won't get hit.

you dont think your camera is safe on a tripod? you can film it from a corner and get her to hit with you crosscourt or something, just an idea though, I agree about the rating, in match situations you have to play your best. I do the exact opposite :(

LeeD
01-11-2009, 03:01 PM
Good you're realistic about the tournament results ultimately determining your ratings.
You have the 4.5 or even above strokes. But most tournament 4.5 players have experience in years of competitive tennis, so even if maybe their strokes look remedial, they can play at a higher than playground level.
Give yourself some time to run thru 3.5, 4.0, then 4.5 before you challenge the Open class or college singles players.

BullDogTennis
01-11-2009, 06:46 PM
i think you were letting the ball getting to close to you on the backhand. and it looked like you floated several, do to it being low though.

m27
01-11-2009, 07:11 PM
preparing and swinging too late on both wings

Djokovicfan4life
01-12-2009, 06:52 AM
You play on grass courts? Where do you live? I'd love to play on grass some time.

Your forehand looks very cramped to me. Are you comfortable taking the ball that close to your body every time?

NickC
01-12-2009, 09:23 AM
Is that indoor grass? I imagine that would be faster than lightning.

RunningBeagle
01-13-2009, 02:51 AM
Not grass, just turf covered in sand. I play at the Weston Racquet Club in Weston, MA.

My strokes are cramped. I agree. That is one of the things I am working on. I've been making progress recently, but that night I guess I was being a bit lazy.

Thanks for the comments. I know that video sucks, and I'll take the advice of the poster who suggested making one from the corner.

RunningBeagle
01-13-2009, 02:58 AM
Oh and by the way, the WRC is a strict club. You are charged for every gd thing that you do in violation of the 11-odd page contract. This includes being late by 1 minute according to their finicky and unpredictable clock due to a snowstorm. $25. And yet, when they fail to get you a court given the 6 hour advance requirement in the contract, nothing happens. Also they inflate ratings horribly. I am beating their 4.5-5.0 players easily with those strokes. As I said, I played a legit 4.5 recently at another club and got murdered.

The surface is fun though.

LeeD
01-13-2009, 08:18 AM
Still think your strokes are fine as is.
I assume you practice with guys who hit with more spin also, guys who hit harder and softer, and have several regular practice partners.
You mentioned your lack of volley skills. Volleying is one way to end the point somewhat quickly. Are you losing because of your volleys?
Then again, you didn't mention why you lost to other good 4.5's at other clubs. Was it your serve not winning 20%, and dictating 60% of the points?
For most people, return of serve, lack of depth, consistency, or angle, leads to bad tournament results. Was that a problem?
Consistent groundies is surely a basis for a winning game, but the others have a great impact on match results.

ZPTennis
01-13-2009, 06:24 PM
I'm changing my rating after getting whipped pretty badly. I used to say 4.5 but I don't have the net game to justify it. Here are some groundstrokes I filmed last night. YouTube decided they didn't want my video to have sound, so, I apologize on their behalf.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6AsGMB5RUU

Your definitely not 3.5.

itisgregory
01-14-2009, 03:06 PM
I like the way you keep moving your feet and get back to the center. The video did not show any net play, serving or returning in order to properly judge your NTRP level.

If anyone here rates you they are doing you a disservice. You cannot possibly be rated accurately without seeing ALL stroke types as mentioned above.

I am called upon by our local tennis leagues to meet with low ranked players to rate them either for the first time or to re-rate them after they have been at the same rating for several years.

However, your ground strokes seem solid.

LeeD
01-14-2009, 03:12 PM
You're free to correct me if you think I"m wrong.....
I think strokes are less than 50% of the equation. For competitive tennis, the player only has to have the desire, concentration, sticktoitness, lotsa quickness, quick recovery, and all that mental jazz to play well.
Most players can get 4.5 strokes. Very few players, probably less than one out of 5 with 4.5 strokes, have the mental attitude, game, whatever, to get to 5.5 levels or higher.
I throw that out because I THINK I have 4.5 strokes, a better serve, and a 3.3 mental approach, holding me right at ..... 4.0 on a good day.

Ballinbob
01-14-2009, 03:17 PM
Hard to believe your a 4.0 from what you showed us. Your strokes have these hitches in them and your serve needs alot of work. You've got to work on the smoothness of your strokes. And for your serve, your knee bend isn't adding much power to your serves. I'm going to go and say your around a low 3.5, judging by what I saw. I could easily hold my ground against you, and I'm a 3.5 myself.

SirBlend12
01-14-2009, 03:35 PM
Hard to believe your a 4.0 from what you showed us. Your strokes have these hitches in them and your serve needs alot of work. You've got to work on the smoothness of your strokes. And for your serve, your knee bend isn't adding much power to your serves. I'm going to go and say your around a low 3.5, judging by what I saw. I could easily hold my ground against you, and I'm a 3.5 myself.

Don't forget, though, Bob, that pretty strokes don't mean anything if they don't work. Two words: Fabrice Santoro haha.

I think he said he was already rated, too, from actual competitive play. I may have misread that, though.

Good stuff. Bit strange. Nice "grass".

m27
01-14-2009, 04:40 PM
Hard to believe your a 4.0 from what you showed us. Your strokes have these hitches in them and your serve needs alot of work. You've got to work on the smoothness of your strokes. And for your serve, your knee bend isn't adding much power to your serves. I'm going to go and say your around a low 3.5, judging by what I saw. I could easily hold my ground against you, and I'm a 3.5 myself.

you must be smoking some pretty good crack if you think you could hold a fast backhand rally with this guy

Ballinbob
01-14-2009, 05:02 PM
you must be smoking some pretty good crack if you think you could hold a fast backhand rally with this guy

You must be smoking some even better crack if you think you can hit 100mph spin serves, let alone place them within 1 foot. And how many backhands do you think I'm going to be hitting when I play a pure S&V game idiot?

my 2nd serve is a topspin slice at about 100mph (first serve is a 115mph-120mph flat serve that I can place +/- 1 foot). I get lots of free points when I go for the body and sometimes even an ace on the odd wide serve.

BullDogTennis
01-14-2009, 05:51 PM
You must be smoking some even better crack if you think you can hit 100mph spin serves, let alone place them within 1 foot. And how many backhands do you think I'm going to be hitting when I play a pure S&V game idiot?

S&V is generrally just whne your serving, when your returning you have to WORK to get to the net, and against what appears to be your weak competition is quite easy, but when you have to play someone decent, you'll get passed tryng to get up there.

raiden031
01-14-2009, 06:08 PM
Hard to believe your a 4.0 from what you showed us. Your strokes have these hitches in them and your serve needs alot of work. You've got to work on the smoothness of your strokes. And for your serve, your knee bend isn't adding much power to your serves. I'm going to go and say your around a low 3.5, judging by what I saw. I could easily hold my ground against you, and I'm a 3.5 myself.

I am not sure I would beat this dude because his strokes actually look pretty dependable to me. I would say strong 3.5 at worst, maybe 4.0. No way he is a low 3.5.

ZPTennis
01-14-2009, 07:11 PM
Comon guys. He had a pretty consistent rally there and was hitting with good pace. If you only judge on strokes alone, its easily 4.0. Results may
prove different, but all we have to go by is the video.

ssjkyle31
01-14-2009, 07:26 PM
Looking at his video, he sure expends too much energy going west and east from a ball machine or someone feeding him balls. He seems really far back from the baseline also. From his footing I peg his game as a grinder. I want to see him facing a variety of spin and pace to make up my mind on his rating.

Ballinbob
01-14-2009, 07:28 PM
meh, its hard to tell his rating. But judging from his serve and groundies I think I could take him, and i'm a 3.5. I have vids too, and I think you'll see my serve is better and my forehand is about the same. If we played on this fast grass with my S&V game, I would be holding serve 90% of the time..

ssjkyle31
01-14-2009, 07:53 PM
From you videos it looks ok I would peg your serve at 70-80 which is not bad since you serves look pretty consistent. But you might want to work on some recovery drills after the serve.

raiden031
01-14-2009, 08:03 PM
Check out my video. I filmed this back in July, 3 months before my performance that led to a year-end rating of 3.60 (~4.0). This is an example of borderline 3.5/4.0 level strokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpvboj960mY

ssjkyle31
01-14-2009, 08:11 PM
So George, you jump to two levels you sandbagger :),lol. I think that happen to 3 players for our 2007 3.5 National Team.

Your strokes and footing are actually better than RB. But still, it would be hard to say without seeing actually match play from RB.

raiden031
01-14-2009, 08:20 PM
So you jump to two levels you sandbagger :),lol. Your strokes and footing are actually better than RB. But still, it would be hard to say without seeing actually match play from RB.

I think his strokes look reasonably fluid. The problem when I try to judge videos is that I'm not qualified to determine whether his hitches are detrimental to his strokes or just idiosynchracies. When I watch guys like McEnroe or Connors hit groundies, I think they have hitches in their game because their strokes look awkward to me, but their level would show otherwise.

But based on the video I would not be surprised if I played this guy and lost to him.

itisgregory
01-14-2009, 08:22 PM
Good point - right now with this analysis.

Ballinbob
01-15-2009, 01:34 PM
From you videos it looks ok I would peg your serve at 70-80 which is not bad since you serves look pretty consistent. But you might want to work on some recovery drills after the serve.

you talking to me?

JHBKLYN
01-15-2009, 02:09 PM
Comon guys. He had a pretty consistent rally there and was hitting with good pace. If you only judge on strokes alone, its easily 4.0. Results may
prove different, but all we have to go by is the video.

I was at ratings sessions looking for players, some looked great during hitting but when it came to match play ....disappointed!!! He said he was hitting with a girl, she seem to hit everything back, I wonder what her rating is.

JHBKLYN
01-15-2009, 02:17 PM
meh, its hard to tell his rating. But judging from his serve and groundies I think I could take him, and i'm a 3.5. I have vids too, and I think you'll see my serve is better and my forehand is about the same. If we played on this fast grass with my S&V game, I would be holding serve 90% of the time..

If you're holding serve 90% percent of the time and he holds serve 100% of the time, wouldn't you lose to him 6-4, 6-4? :)

Ballinbob
01-15-2009, 02:24 PM
If you're holding serve 90% percent of the time and he holds serve 100% of the time, wouldn't you lose to him 6-4, 6-4? :)

No way in hell he going to hold serve 100% of the time. You be the judge and compare our serves......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ2Ufblhnd0&feature=channel_page (his serve)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2A7nXTui4Y&feature=channel_page (my serve)

Big level difference between us in serving...

Djokovicfan4life
01-15-2009, 02:33 PM
Did I miss something here? Since when did this thread become about you, Ballinbob?

Ballinbob
01-15-2009, 02:36 PM
^^Lol I didn't mean to make it about me and its just me running my mouth too much. M27's comment ****ed me off and I felt the need to prove myself. I should probably shut up and leave though, I don't want this to get into something bad.

foLster
01-15-2009, 02:49 PM
Is it just me, or do you hit your forehand super close to your body?

raiden031
01-15-2009, 03:13 PM
No way in hell he going to hold serve 100% of the time. You be the judge and compare our serves......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ2Ufblhnd0&feature=channel_page (his serve)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2A7nXTui4Y&feature=channel_page (my serve)

Big level difference between us in serving...

I don't think these videos show that your serve is more effective than his. I would say its inconclusive.

m27
01-15-2009, 03:15 PM
No way in hell he going to hold serve 100% of the time. You be the judge and compare our serves......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ2Ufblhnd0&feature=channel_page (his serve)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2A7nXTui4Y&feature=channel_page (my serve)

Big level difference between us in serving...

yeah he doesn't have a great serve but yours is pretty bad too, hotshot
for instance, your elbow is waaaay too high in trophy pose; its not possible to generate any real power from your technique

Ballinbob
01-15-2009, 03:28 PM
^^ It's your fault we're even talking about this. You felt the need to say im on crack because I said I can take this guy. You put down everyone on these boards and run your mouth constantly. Why do you do this? I had to defend myself, as I'm not going to let people think im on crack and that i'm lying. You initiated this whole thing.

tsmcauliffe
01-15-2009, 03:35 PM
Ballinbob, honestly watching your videos, it looks like you're maybe a strong 3.0. Not a 3.5. Your "first" server isn't very fast or have much action on it and your ground strokes aren't very consistant either. You never seemed to finish your stroke in the same place. If you listen in your video you can hear every time you hit a ball into the net or if it goes over you can here it hit the fence.

Ballinbob
01-15-2009, 03:43 PM
Ballinbob, honestly watching your videos, it looks like you're maybe a strong 3.0. Not a 3.5. Your "first" server isn't very fast or have much action on it and your ground strokes aren't very consistant either. You never seemed to finish your stroke in the same place. If you listen in your video you can hear every time you hit a ball into the net or if it goes over you can here it hit the fence.

How is my first serve not very fast? I'm hitting it at 100mph and getting it in 55% of the time. In my last thread most people said I had a 4.0 serve... Also, I S&V, so I barely ever am in ground stroke rallies. I chip all serves back and charge the net. My groundies are consistent, but they lack power+spin. I kinda push my groundstrokes over, and it works at the 3.5 level. Also, pretty strokes really don't mean much. I make my strokes work, and they're enough to let me approach the net and finish points up there.

watch the 2 serves after 1:05.... this is how fast I'm serving. I've been taking private lessons twice a week since that vid and my coach and I have been working on consistency. I still serve that fast but with better consistency

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZHzYgYZXM8

m27
01-15-2009, 03:56 PM
^^ It's your fault we're even talking about this. You felt the need to say im on crack because I said I can take this guy. You put down everyone on these boards and run your mouth constantly. Why do you do this? I had to defend myself, as I'm not going to let people think im on crack and that i'm lying. You initiated this whole thing.

cry some more

m27
01-15-2009, 03:58 PM
Ballinbob, honestly watching your videos, it looks like you're maybe a strong 3.0. Not a 3.5. Your "first" server isn't very fast or have much action on it and your ground strokes aren't very consistant either. You never seemed to finish your stroke in the same place. If you listen in your video you can hear every time you hit a ball into the net or if it goes over you can here it hit the fence.

you shouldn't have said that
now he's going to follow you around from thread to thread crying and harassing you

Ballinbob
01-15-2009, 04:01 PM
cry some more Wasn't crying. Just saying you have a really nasty attitude about things. Nobody here can put up with you because you put down others and then you go say you can hit 100spin serves and talk trash.

you shouldn't have said that
now he's going to follow you around from thread to thread crying and harassing you

Once again, m27 being a doosh bag. Who have I done that too? You were the only one out of 50 people in my last thread to say im a 3.0, and I never bothered you about it. so stop spreading BS about me

RunningBeagle
01-17-2009, 10:45 PM
Dudes you got to see 2 videos of me, neither of which showed where the ball was going and how fast/consistently. This is me just saying, look at me, I got a cool new camera for christmas, and I'm not a hack.

Anyway, on the serve. I was cold. Very f'ing shivering cold. I am wearing a sweater in that video for a reason. I didn't feel like ruining my arm for an anonymous internet circle-jerk. I will take one warm this week from behind :shock: so you can see where the ball's going. I can place it, hit it hard and in 80% of the time on a good day. It is easily the strongest part of my game and one of the strongest at the club.

I know the service motion needs work. I toss with my entire body and I have been hitting hundreds of serves to eliminate that since it was pointed out to me in the comments. My girlfriend, an experienced tennis player, corroborates that is a flaw, and I am working on it.

Enough excuses. Again, I'll make another video from behind.

Next, the groundstrokes. That is basically what they look like. But you can't tell anything without seeing where they go. I think they look good, but good looking strokes are useless if you can't control them or use them to set up points. I have trouble with shots hit deep, and no, I can't volley for ****.

After I post the next vids, I'll make a thread that says "Please rate me and tell me which imaginary internet opponents I could beat or not"

LeeD
01-18-2009, 09:18 AM
I already said your strokes are good enough.
What really matters is WHERE your strokes go, and can you reproduce them during a match against a GUY 4.5 player.
Best practice is to hit against TWO players, so you hit crosscourt AND down the lines. YOU cover your singles court, you hit to their singles court.
No hitting up the middle.
Then practice your serves. Hit out wide, up the center, and right up the middle, so you have 3 basic service locations.
Now practice return of serves against GUYS who can serve.
Now practice volleys. Hit EACH one deep with underspin, in control, and try to place them within 4' of the baseline.
Hit with your girlfriend for sure, but you won't get out of your level playing against girls. You need to find some consistent, bigger hitting guys to practice with.

tsmcauliffe
01-19-2009, 02:01 PM
Wasn't crying. Just saying you have a really nasty attitude about things. Nobody here can put up with you because you put down others and then you go say you can hit 100spin serves and talk trash.



Once again, m27 being a doosh bag. Who have I done that too? You were the only one out of 50 people in my last thread to say im a 3.0, and I never bothered you about it. so stop spreading BS about me

Ballinbob, lets play some time and lets see this "100MPH" and your s&v game and see these 3.5 strokes. I'd love to run you around. Where you live?

Ballinbob
01-19-2009, 02:05 PM
I live in Colorado. I have a vid of my serve lol, I'm not lying about hitting 100mph. Anyway, I was wrong of saying I could beat the OP. I havent even really seen him play and I said that, that wasnt very nice lol. Even if I could beat him, I shouldn't have said that. So sorry Beagle, and I hope I didn't offend/put you down in anyway.

Babb
01-19-2009, 02:05 PM
How can anyone have strokes like a 3.5 but have a 100 mph serve that goes in 55% of the time?

Ballinbob
01-19-2009, 02:08 PM
look at the 2 serves following 1:05 on the vid. I posted a thread on this and everyone said it was in the 95-100mph range............ I still serve that fast but a little more consistently. Anyway, sorry for badmouthing beagle, I shouldnt have. I talk too much and it always gets me in trouble..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZHzYgYZXM8&feature=channel_page

raiden031
01-19-2009, 02:39 PM
Ballinbob, honestly watching your videos, it looks like you're maybe a strong 3.0. Not a 3.5. Your "first" server isn't very fast or have much action on it

ballinbob's first serve looks better than most 3.5s I would say. It looks pretty fast for that level of play, so I would guess if it is consistent than it is a weapon for him. The thing that really stands out is the backhand looks like a huge liability. He's addressing that right now in another thread which is good. I don't think being a 3.5 is out of the question.