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View Full Version : Do you think the A-Rod serve has gotten slower?


DarthFed
01-12-2009, 07:48 AM
All through Doha i noticed Andy's serve lost some of its pop...last year he was still hitting 238 Km/h (or 147 mph) and even managed to hit a 247 Km/h (153 mph) ace to beat Nadal in Dubai

THis year im noticing A LOT of balls come back, and i can follow his serve easier than say TMC, his fastest serve against Navarro was 209 and i believe his fastest for the tournament was 217...which is weird considering his average used to be 209-220...

Watching Gulbis and Murray serve in Brisbane and Doha, their fastest serves that i've seen were both 224 Km/h (141 mph) meaning they can serve a little bigger than Andy

His serve was a huge factor, he was broken many times by...(damn i forget the opponent) he seemed to playing well...then he got to Murray and we saw that its just not enough any more

In addition..the forehand is all but gone?

what do you guys think?

coloskier
01-12-2009, 07:49 AM
All through Doha i noticed Andy's serve lost some of its pop...last year he was still hitting 238 Km/h (or 147 mph) and even managed to hit a 247 Km/h (153 mph) ace to beat Nadal in Dubai

THis year im noticing A LOT of balls come back, and i can follow his serve easier than say TMC, his fastest serve against Navarro was 209 and i believe his fastest for the tournament was 217...which is weird considering his average used to be 209-220...

Watching Gulbis and Murray serve in Brisbane and Doha, their fastest serves that i've seen were both 224 Km/h (141 mph) meaning they can serve a little bigger than Andy

His serve was a huge factor, he was broken many times by...(damn i forget the opponent) he seemed to playing well...then he got to Murray and we saw that its just not enough any more

In addition..the forehand is all but gone?

what do you guys think?

Not only is it slower, he can't hit a corner to save his life.

DarthFed
01-12-2009, 07:54 AM
I noticed that too....w/o that serve he's screwed against the big leagues...

tacou
01-12-2009, 08:17 AM
murray is one of the best returns in the game. no, THE best. Federer has been returning his big serves for years.

his placement is getting better, compromised for less speed. but he still has it, no question.

DarthFed
01-12-2009, 08:38 AM
I guess we'll see...but his second round opponent broke him quite a few times...and he's no Federer

Also murray out aced him in the final i believe

NamRanger
01-12-2009, 08:43 AM
I guess we'll see...but his second round opponent broke him quite a few times...and he's no Federer

Also murray out aced him in the final i believe



Federer often outaces Roddick. It happens.



Roddick is going for more corners and lines rather than trying to bomb it in every time. It has worked to an extent to him. I think he's just over thinking it and forgetting to go for the big bomb when under pressure. However; it is nice to see that he is trying to change his game.



Also, let's not forget he's still putting his serve in at 120+. It's not like he's hitting slow serves. Most of the time he is getting broken due to his lack of a killshot (i.e. his forehand).

DarthFed
01-12-2009, 09:25 AM
Yea...the FH is ...weaker to say the least

But the bomb has done him so well against weaker opponents..perhaps he's just testing out his new strategy

idk maybe its just me but im so used to seeing 230 km/h bombs off Roddick's end

NamRanger
01-12-2009, 09:26 AM
Yea...the FH is ...weaker to say the least

But the bomb has done him so well against weaker opponents..perhaps he's just testing out his new strategy

idk maybe its just me but im so used to seeing 230 km/h bombs off Roddick's end



His serve was perfectly fine during Doha. It held up fine until he faced Andy Murray, who is an excellent returner. Even then, it's not like he served poorly. He just played poorly tactically, trying to beat Murray at his own game of cat and mouse.

DarthFed
01-12-2009, 09:51 AM
Yea....the game he tried to apply to Murray was bad

What im getting it as not that he is serving poor...just noticebly slower...its not bad...its just that his serve is what makes him stand out...which is why i noticed he took some pop off of it right away

akybo
01-12-2009, 09:54 AM
Roddick is an agressive player who take the initiative,I like that.His first serve is a bit slower but the second I see an improvement.

ShcMad
01-12-2009, 09:58 AM
I'm not sure about Roddick's serve getting slower. But, sure as hell up-and-comers like Murray have figured it out.

NamRanger
01-12-2009, 10:02 AM
I'm not sure about Roddick's serve getting slower. But, sure as hell up-and-comers like Murray have figured it out.


Is there anyone Murray HASN'T figured out yet?

ShcMad
01-12-2009, 10:03 AM
Is there anyone Murray HASN'T figured out yet?

Murray is one smart chap, isn't he?

J-man
01-12-2009, 10:15 AM
All through Doha i noticed Andy's serve lost some of its pop...last year he was still hitting 238 Km/h (or 147 mph) and even managed to hit a 247 Km/h (153 mph) ace to beat Nadal in Dubai

THis year im noticing A LOT of balls come back, and i can follow his serve easier than say TMC, his fastest serve against Navarro was 209 and i believe his fastest for the tournament was 217...which is weird considering his average used to be 209-220...

Watching Gulbis and Murray serve in Brisbane and Doha, their fastest serves that i've seen were both 224 Km/h (141 mph) meaning they can serve a little bigger than Andy

His serve was a huge factor, he was broken many times by...(damn i forget the opponent) he seemed to playing well...then he got to Murray and we saw that its just not enough any more

In addition..the forehand is all but gone?

what do you guys think?Players simply have gotten better at returning serve and in this case Andy's. Not only that but TMC is indoors and thus faster, which explains why you can follow his serve better at Doha.

Lefty5
01-12-2009, 10:42 AM
i think the game has caught up to roddick's serve. its just not that much better than the rest the mens tour anymore.

tacou
01-12-2009, 10:46 AM
the game caught up to his serve long ago, which is why he's slowing it down and trying to move it around. it's not working perfectly just yet but at least he's trying to do new things.

as for his forehand getting weaker, I strongly disagree. if anything it is exactly the same as the past two seasons, but in Doha I saw signs of more aggression and flattening it out and JEEZ! I forgot how big his forehand can be, and it's definitely still there.

hopefully he's just testing it out in Doha and Kooyong (where I'm assuming he's playing?) and in AO we will see a lot more of it. Otherwise Steffanki didn't do shi t.

the only big problem I see in Roddick's game is stupid stupid stupid cross court slice to the forehand approach. how many wrong things can you do with an approach shot? Roddick does them all. He might night have textbook volleys but he's pretty effective at net-- when he gets there the right way.

NamRanger
01-12-2009, 10:57 AM
the game caught up to his serve long ago, which is why he's slowing it down and trying to move it around. it's not working perfectly just yet but at least he's trying to do new things.

as for his forehand getting weaker, I strongly disagree. if anything it is exactly the same as the past two seasons, but in Doha I saw signs of more aggression and flattening it out and JEEZ! I forgot how big his forehand can be, and it's definitely still there.

hopefully he's just testing it out in Doha and Kooyong (where I'm assuming he's playing?) and in AO we will see a lot more of it. Otherwise Steffanki didn't do shi t.

the only big problem I see in Roddick's game is stupid stupid stupid cross court slice to the forehand approach. how many wrong things can you do with an approach shot? Roddick does them all. He might night have textbook volleys but he's pretty effective at net-- when he gets there the right way.



He hasn't hit them at the right times though. When he has an opening to put the ball away, he needs to do that.


I have to admit though, this is an improved Roddick this season already. He has plenty of opportunities to pick up points at the AO and Wimbledon, along with many other tournaments he didn't do so hot in. His backhand and movement look drastically improved. Lets see if he can crank the FH even higher (as I have seen him do before) and at the right times, and we may have a darkhorse contender.

MajinX
01-12-2009, 11:00 AM
his serve speed is obviously slower, yes ppl are returning it better and stuff but that doesnt change the fact it has gotten slower. not sure if its intentional on roddicks part, trying to change his game up and going for corners or if by practicing his backhand and other part of his games he has lost a bit of control and pace on the serve.

NamRanger
01-12-2009, 11:05 AM
his serve speed is obviously slower, yes ppl are returning it better and stuff but that doesnt change the fact it has gotten slower. not sure if its intentional on roddicks part, trying to change his game up and going for corners or if by practicing his backhand and other part of his games he has lost a bit of control and pace on the serve.


He was nailing corners and lines. Using less pace, he has upped his percentage to somewhere around 75-80% while still hitting over 120. Even Federer can't do that consistently day in and day out. What more do you want him to do?

MarrratSafin
01-12-2009, 12:54 PM
Roddick is just using his brains more. He's going for accuracy rather than power, and mixing up his serves very well. Might be less aces but helps construct the points better. And maybe to save some energy.. (well he's another year older) I watch his matches and the serves are still pretty effective. :)

About being out aced that happens because Roddick is not as good a receiver as Fed or Murray or whoever else who out aced him.

tacou
01-12-2009, 01:02 PM
He hasn't hit them at the right times though. When he has an opening to put the ball away, he needs to do that.

yes, I agree. I'm just saying it's a good sign, it was only the first tournament after all.

Gugafan
01-12-2009, 05:03 PM
Off Topic

Roddicks movement seemed abit 'heavy' to say the least last yr. A few years back he was lighter which allowed him to be alot more offensive with the forehand on the run.

It seems recently, Roddick can only unload on the forehand when the ball sits up for him (How often do u see A.Rod produce a quality forehand pass???)....That being said, he has worked on his fitness this year and looks trimmer.

adams_1
01-12-2009, 05:29 PM
Is there anyone Murray HASN'T figured out yet?

Bit of Brad Gilbert magic wore off on him, perhaps :)

Beasty54
01-12-2009, 06:53 PM
Off Topic

Roddicks movement seemed abit 'heavy' to say the least last yr. A few years back he was lighter which allowed him to be alot more offensive with the forehand on the run.

It seems recently, Roddick can only unload on the forehand when the ball sits up for him (How often do u see A.Rod produce a quality forehand pass???)....That being said, he has worked on his fitness this year and looks trimmer.


I completely agree with the heavy movement. It seems as if the longer the rally goes the less likely Roddick will win it due to him getting out of position. Although, his forehand passes arent that bad, he can make them crosscourt pretty well. But the forehand on the run isnt like it once was, such as back in '03.

Dan007
01-12-2009, 07:04 PM
I mean he's getting older now, he's not gonna serve at 140's consistently anymore. During 03-04 Roddick was at the peak of his physical strength and blasted serves and forehands, but he can't do that anymore. Also, a lot of the guys know how to return roddick's serve now in addition to the serve no where as good as it once was.

coloskier
01-13-2009, 06:34 AM
He was nailing corners and lines. Using less pace, he has upped his percentage to somewhere around 75-80% while still hitting over 120. Even Federer can't do that consistently day in and day out. What more do you want him to do?

140 mph and hit corners. Karlovic does it. Yes, Karlovic is a lot taller, but Roddick used to do it. The only way Murray is hurt is if you hit a bomb to a corner, otherwise he is just like Fed in his return game. Block it back, the same game Agassi used to play. If Roddick would come in behind that serve, like Sampras did, he'd have easy pickings on the "block back" return. That is why Sampras usually destroyed Agassi. And it is why Sampras in his prime would destroy Murray. If Murray tried to return from 10 feet behind the baseline against Sampras, the slaughter would be even worse.

iamke55
01-13-2009, 07:01 AM
Agassi's return game had nothing to do with blocking the serve back, and Murray would destroy Sampras easily in any form with his own return game.

NamRanger
01-13-2009, 07:42 AM
140 mph and hit corners. Karlovic does it. Yes, Karlovic is a lot taller, but Roddick used to do it. The only way Murray is hurt is if you hit a bomb to a corner, otherwise he is just like Fed in his return game. Block it back, the same game Agassi used to play. If Roddick would come in behind that serve, like Sampras did, he'd have easy pickings on the "block back" return. That is why Sampras usually destroyed Agassi. And it is why Sampras in his prime would destroy Murray. If Murray tried to return from 10 feet behind the baseline against Sampras, the slaughter would be even worse.



Karlovic has a massive serve and is taller, which makes it easier for him to find angles. It's also much easier for him to effortlessly produce pace on his serve due to his much longer limbs. Karlovic's racquet head speed is NOWHERE near Roddick's, yet he is putting in his serve at the same speeds.



Roddick cannot volley. CANNOT. PERIOD.

NickJ
01-13-2009, 07:48 AM
Perhaps it's his age. He's getting older and unfortunately the body can't always keep up with what it used to be able to do.
I'm a prime example. I know I'm nowhere near as good as Roddick or any other pro, but I used to have a fearsome serve. Admittedly that was about 10+ years ago. My fastest recorded was 126mph indoor. I reckon the majority were 100+. Now, I reckon I'd be lucky to hit treble figures and I've reached the ripe old age of 35.
I know Roddick is younger than 35 but as you get older, not everything works, ask my fiancee!
I agree with the other posts, perhaps us as spectators and the players have just gotten used to Roddicks serve. It's no longer the weapon it used to be.

Gugafan_Redux
01-13-2009, 11:14 AM
In 2003, Roddick could bring the heat up the T, or the twister change-up, short and out wide. If anything, the heat is still there 95%, but I don't see the surprises so much anymore, especially the monster kick out wide in the ad court.

Maybe Doha is a slow surface, but I kept waiting for the bomb on the T, where you blink and it's gone. Never happened.

coloskier
01-13-2009, 11:28 AM
Agassi's return game had nothing to do with blocking the serve back, and Murray would destroy Sampras easily in any form with his own return game.

That I highly doubt, but we will never know.

coloskier
01-13-2009, 11:28 AM
Karlovic has a massive serve and is taller, which makes it easier for him to find angles. It's also much easier for him to effortlessly produce pace on his serve due to his much longer limbs. Karlovic's racquet head speed is NOWHERE near Roddick's, yet he is putting in his serve at the same speeds.



Roddick cannot volley. CANNOT. PERIOD.

I mostly agree with you, but I think the volley is not Roddick's problem, it is his suicidal crosscourt approach shots.

MajinX
01-13-2009, 11:29 AM
Agassi's return game had nothing to do with blocking the serve back, and Murray would destroy Sampras easily in any form with his own return game.

no1 can really destroy sampras easily... hes one of the best of all time and to do that must mean u are the best of the best of all time and murray is not there yet.