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Eph
01-13-2009, 02:40 PM
So I think I got it this time. The only thing that seems off to me is the leg bend and finishing it because my knees are going in different directions. I hold my back much more now which I've noticed a difference in. Helps with control. I think I've lost some speed though.

Please tell me what you think.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTbBvckYQso

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJGB1N6fUsc (I was more tired in this video)

Eph
01-13-2009, 02:47 PM
Slideshow of one serve:

Ballinbob
01-13-2009, 02:47 PM
I'll tell you one thing, its looking alot better than before. There is still something wrong with your serve though that I can't identify. I could take a guess but I don't want to give you wrong information. Your doing great so far though, you've clearly improved.

And just out of curiosity.... Do you work out everyday and/or run? If you don't, I'd start working on it just a little bit each day. Most important thing with fitness is doing it everyday, doesn't need to be long. I think if you lost some weight you'd find yourself playing alot better b/c you'll be more flexible/move faster.

Eph
01-13-2009, 02:49 PM
Yes, I've certainly noticed a big difference in my game from 8kg ago. I've still have about 30kg to lose, but once I lose it, I'll be healthier than now. But yes, I workout 6 days a week. If you remember my first serve video you'll see how fat I was now - there has been a major difference (peak was around 305, now at 278ish).

As for me doing better than before, are you referring to the last video I posted which went for a few pages? :)

GeorgeLucas
01-13-2009, 02:51 PM
Okay, erm, that's nice pop you're getting... But your knees are WAY off. Probably more so than you think. I mean you're actually making contact with your knees buckled under you - a big no no. First and foremost, make sure you are making contact with your legs absolutely extended.


It's like you have this superabundance energy stored in your coiled muscles... all wasted!! Extending your legs also raises your contact point and gives you more service box to aim for. Good luck!!

Ballinbob
01-13-2009, 02:55 PM
Yes, I've certainly noticed a big difference in my game from 8kg ago. I've still have about 30kg to lose, but once I lose it, I'll be healthier than now. But yes, I workout 6 days a week. If you remember my first serve video you'll see how fat I was now - there has been a major difference (peak was around 305, now at 278ish).

As for me doing better than before, are you referring to the last video I posted which went for a few pages? :)

That's great that your working on your fitness, keep it up. And yeah your serve looks better than the one on your last thread, thats for sure.

Keep working, you'll get there. Your improving pretty fast

oneguy21
01-13-2009, 02:56 PM
Your knee bend is fine, but your not using them as a spring to explode into the ball. It almost seems as if your coming down as your hitting the ball.

No harsh feelings, but try to lose some more weight. A lighter body will help you jump into the serve. :)

Also, you may want to change that grip a little to the continental. It will feel awkard at first. You may think, "How the hell do I serve with this grip?" , but with practice you'll get the hang of it.

Keep it up and work on your fitness.

Eph
01-13-2009, 03:05 PM
Do you really think I am trying to not lose the weight? That's I'm just hanging around? And let me ask you, do you think I'm just "fat guy" or do you think there could be reasons I'm so overweight and no longer as healthy as I once was as a ski racer and a potential D1 athlete?

Sigh. I digress.

How do I get the explosion into the ball? I'm guessing that's where I'm losing power and where my "hop" will come into place.

I've realised I've lost the continental grip when I switched grip sizes. I'm making more of a conscious effort to get it back, but I think for most of the serves, I do a good job serving from the continental.

BU-Tennis
01-13-2009, 03:09 PM
I too am out of shape and know that importance of trying to be in optimal fitness. Even with just 10 pounds off of your body its incredible how much better you are able to move. Your serve, from the waist up, is pretty good. Two major points that Oneguy hit on was the grip needs to be changed to a little more continental and the legs need to be extended.

But first hings first. You don't have to jump up off of the ground but just make sure your legs are fully extended. As more weight comes off you'll notice that you're getting further off of the ground and your serve will improve exponentially. Keep at it brother its a tough road but is well worth it.

Side note on fitness. My college coach told me of this one guy who couldn't even beat the top 6 players on the team. He left, lost about 50 pounds, and when he came back he wasn't playing any lower than 2 and even 1 on certain occasions.

Ballinbob
01-13-2009, 03:10 PM
Do you really think I am trying to not lose the weight? That's I'm just hanging around? And let me ask you, do you think I'm just a typical "fat guy" or do you think there could be reasons I'm so overweight and no longer as healthy as I once was as a ski racer and a potential D1 athlete?

Sigh. I digress.

How do I get the explosion into the ball? I'm guessing that's where I'm losing power and where my "hop" will come into place.

Don't worry about it. Your trying to loose the weight and that's all that matters. I'm fast as hell and it doesn't help as much you would think. Your strong at least, use that to your advantage:)

As for the explosion into the ball, I get what they're saying. Notice that your feet pretty much stay on the ground during the whole serve. What's the point in having that nice knee bend but not using it to add power to the serve? You should "jump" into the ball kinda.

Look at roddicks serve and watch how his feet leave the ground. This is what I mean:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T__9ZuSID4w

Eph
01-13-2009, 03:11 PM
That's great that your working on your fitness, keep it up. And yeah your serve looks better than the one on your last thread, thats for sure.

Keep working, you'll get there. Your improving pretty fast

Yeah. It's one of the most important things - it really helps, in all aspects of your life. You have highs and lows w.r.t. working out, but for the most part, I've been on a high since I've been physically able to again and stopped listening to my surgeons and taking more Morphine.

Did you see my Federer videos on Youtube? Just noticed your avatar.

Eph
01-13-2009, 03:15 PM
Don't worry about it. Your trying to loose the weight and that's all that matters. I'm fast as hell and it doesn't help as much you would think. Your strong at least, use that to your advantage:)

As for the explosion into the ball, I get what they're saying. Notice that your feet pretty much stay on the ground during the whole serve. What's the point in having that nice knee bend but not using it to add power to the serve? You should "jump" into the ball kinda.

Look at roddicks serve and watch how his feet leave the ground. This is what I mean:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T__9ZuSID4w
Yeah, indeed. One day I'll be able to serve like that and have a beautiful looking serve. : )

I heard somebody say on these boards he needs to lose about 15 pounds. Not sure if he could, but hey who knows then.

oneguy21
01-13-2009, 04:04 PM
Do you really think I am trying to not lose the weight? That's I'm just hanging around? And let me ask you, do you think I'm just "fat guy" or do you think there could be reasons I'm so overweight and no longer as healthy as I once was as a ski racer and a potential D1 athlete?

Sigh. I digress.

How do I get the explosion into the ball? I'm guessing that's where I'm losing power and where my "hop" will come into place.

I've realised I've lost the continental grip when I switched grip sizes. I'm making more of a conscious effort to get it back, but I think for most of the serves, I do a good job serving from the continental.

I'm not trying to criticize you. If you're working to lose weight, then keep up the good work! I apologize if I was offensive.

I'm trying to shed a couple of pounds myself, so how hyprocitical it would be if I was to criticize you!

To explode into the ball bend your knees and jump up. At contact with the ball your arm should be extended.

Eph
01-13-2009, 04:06 PM
It seems like you meant it in a way of "lose some weight you'll be better until then [ ]". I just get sick of hearing those things, sorry. And yeah, I do what I can to lose weight.

Isn't my arm fully extended here?

oneguy21
01-13-2009, 04:14 PM
It seems like you meant it in a way of "lose some weight you'll be better until then [ ]". I just get sick of hearing those things, sorry. And yeah, I do what I can to lose weight.

Isn't my arm fully extended here? http://christhelinuxguy.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=37069

Yep, can't see the contact with the ball, but it looks like it's extended. Next step is to work on good leg drive like I said. If you'd like, try practicing w/o a racquet or ball.

GeorgeLucas
01-13-2009, 04:14 PM
It seems like you meant it in a way of "lose some weight you'll be better until then [ ]". I just get sick of hearing those things, sorry. And yeah, I do what I can to lose weight.

Isn't my arm fully extended here? http://christhelinuxguy.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=37069

Ugh. Mac. Yes your arm is fully extended, but it might as well be only halfway stretched because it is canceled by your poor legwork. Sorry I didn't mean to word it like that :oops:

Eph
01-13-2009, 06:43 PM
Yep, can't see the contact with the ball, but it looks like it's extended. Next step is to work on good leg drive like I said. If you'd like, try practicing w/o a racquet or ball.

Where can I learn that?


Et, there's nothing wrong with Macs. Can do everything my other *nix machines can do on a nice X11 platform.

LeeD
01-13-2009, 07:05 PM
I think slideshow # 6 says it all....
You are contacting while your leg is bent and your foot is touching earth.
Basically, your contact point is quite a bit too low, and you "fall" into your serve still.
Just look at all the nice serves we have in this forum, and try to copy or emulate the better serves that don't take too much motion.
I think "huge serve" guy has a really nice, easy to replicate, compact motion to look at.

smoothtennis
01-13-2009, 08:42 PM
Hi Eph - serve has a little more pop to it this time. You are still pivoting on your left foot while fully loaded which is why your knees get out of line with each other. Back looks better, more staight than before if I am seeing your vid correctly (different angle is harder to tell).

Kevo
01-13-2009, 09:14 PM
Isn't my arm fully extended here? http://christhelinuxguy.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=37069

Actually, I don't think it is. If I were coaching you, going on what I've seen in the two videos, I would probably have you hit some serves without trying to use your legs at all. You arm motion is close, and could probably get you pretty far without the legs. I think the knee bending is getting in the way of you fully utilizing your upper body.

I think you should concentrate on the trophy position and getting a better rhythm to your swing. Also, hitting some serves from your knees might be a good thing for you to try.

Check out this video. Watch between 4 and 6 seconds.
Roddick Serve (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muKDqiVer0k)

Notice the complete vertical rotation of the shoulders. Also note how the shoulder rotation leads the swing. Also follow the position of the elbow and the unfolding of the arm along with the rotation. I always try and get people to slow themselves down and try to feel the serve as a series of links in a chain. You'd be surprised how effective a slower swing can be when it's in the proper sequence and rhythm.

NotAtTheNet
01-14-2009, 07:45 AM
I'm definitely not the authority here especially on serves, but I think you have all the right ideas on the serve, knee bend, drop shoulder, snap wrist, but all those components just don't look like they're working together in your serve motion.

When you bend your knees, you're supposed to kind of jump up into the ball. You seem to just bend your body forward and then just fall in due to gravity. You seem like a tall guy, but by doing this, you also negate the height advantage. In fact if you watch other people's serve video, you'll see the point of bending the knees is to load up energy and explode up and out by a jump, ie: your legs and knees will be straight at some point. Your knees are kept bent through most of your entire motion, even at contact.

One thing SmoothTennis told me a while back that really stuck, was just work on one aspect of you stroke, or in this case you serve. Don't try to change too much in one session, bc you'll just get lost, especially on a complex motion like a tennis serve. For now just lessen you knee bend and work on getting a good toss and the right contact point on the ball. Once you have that down, then increase the knee bend and hop up. One you have that, increase the knee bend and power loading and explode up and into the ball.

You might want to lighten up on the swing speed too, placement before power. I think you're rushing too much and your body is getting confused and theres definitely a misstiming issue here. Work on good form and once you have that, adding power should be a cinch.

If you insist on going full power in your vids, its easier for everyone and yourself included to maybe include a slow mo vid.

jules2
01-14-2009, 08:03 AM
You are bringing your elbow down before you've even hit the ball. The racquet head should drag behind until the vertical at which point it leads the arm back down. I think this is why the stroke looks like everything is happening a bit low down. I would forget about jumping up and stuff 'til you have that sussed out.

Bungalo Bill
01-14-2009, 08:47 AM
So I think I got it this time. The only thing that seems off to me is the leg bend and finishing it because my knees are going in different directions. I hold my back much more now which I've noticed a difference in. Helps with control. I think I've lost some speed though.

Please tell me what you think.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTbBvckYQso

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJGB1N6fUsc (I was more tired in this video)


Eph,

Good job on the improvements! I dont think I ever got your email, however, I did answer some. Maybe they were yours. If I didnt I apoligize, I really dont know where they went.

There are three things that I see need to be worked on:

1. Your toss and your tossing arm movement.

2. Your knee bend.

3. Where you are making contact with the ball.

YOUR TOSS AND YOUR TOSSING ARM MOVEMENT
Your tossing arm has a "hitch" in it as you begin your serve motion. It actually goes down toward your left side before it starts to come up to toss the ball. I think part of the reason you are doing this is because of the little front leg turn you do at the beginning of your motion.

Because you perform this extra move with your tossing arm, your tossing hand has to travel a long way up and by the time you have to release the ball, the tossing hand is pretty far away from the apex of the tossed ball. This difference in distance will contribute to an erratic and inconsistent toss hieght and position. Obviosuly, this will also contribute to an inconsistent serve.

To get a rough idea of what I mean, place your pointer at the apex of one of your tosses. Then allow the video to keep going for the next serve. Try and see if your toss is consistent. You can also see how far the ball drops before you make contact.

By getting rid of this hitch, this will allow you to release the ball at a higher position and your tossing arm/hand as it stretches up to the sky after the release will be much closer to the ball. By decreasing the distance between your release and the apex of the ball, this will help you improve your consistency in ball toss height and position. The farther your hand is away from the ball, the greater the difficulty is in getting a consistent ball toss. Here is an example to compare yours too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=825atbm8bHw&feature=related

Note how long he keeps his tossing arm up and how high he releases the ball. Also note the simplicity in how his tossing arm works. It pretty much just rises.


YOUR KNEE BEND
By curling in your knee as your tossing hand goes back and down toward your left side, you are actually slowing down your motion. It is the front side of the body that moves out towards the service court, and the knee bend becomes a by-product of the imbalance you place on your body from coiling, etc... The knee bend acts as a spring to help you get up from your feet. You are not jumping, you are rising and lifiting your upper body to the ball for contact.

I think I remember you had knee problems or something.

Further, because you have to wait a bit longer for the ball to be released, your knee bend is somewhat premature in the swing. This means you have to wait for the ball to do its thing and by that time, you have lost the kinetic energy in the legs for your serve motion. On almost all serves, you barely came out of your knee bend before you made contact with the ball. In reality, your legs should have extended just before you made contact with the ball, with a clear view of seeing your body rise to the contact point instead of waiting for the ball to come down.

Watch again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=825atbm8bHw&feature=related Note how the knee bend is being used to counterbalance the body and is being loaded to allow the player to rise to the ball. Many times, when you do this right, you feel as if you are being pulled out of your shoes.

WHERE YOU ARE MAKING CONTACT WITH THE BALL
Please remind of your physical limitations regarding your knees, etc...

In a nutshell, if you cant go up for the ball because of physical limitations, I would advise you to not toss the ball as high as your are doing. Perhaps a more abbreviated motion would work better or maybe a Roscoe Tanner motion would work to improve the fluidity in your motion and the ball.

The hand going back to your left side and then traveling back up with the little knee "curtesy" you are doing is causing your serve to be less efficient than it should.

Here is Nadal's serve motion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J--1bFxdmC0&NR=1

Here is Federers serve motion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79tuHYoErQg&feature=related

Eph
01-14-2009, 08:58 AM
Thanks. What can I do to work on these problems? I have a torn ACL and MCL which I keep putting off surgery on as it's my 3rd one and I don't expect a different outcome than the others. Though I would have the surgery if I thought it would be helpful.

I notice that little twitch and would love to get rid of it. I know my toss needed work but I thought ever since I was turning my back, it got a lot better.

And no, you didn't answer my e-mail but you probably got a lot of them. I can try sending it again..

Bungalo Bill
01-14-2009, 09:03 AM
Thanks. What can I do to work on these problems? I have a torn ACL and MCL which I keep putting off surgery on as it's my 3rd one and I don't expect a different outcome than the others. Though I would have the surgery if I thought it would be helpful.

I notice that little twitch and would love to get rid of it. I know my toss needed work but I thought ever since I was turning my back, it got a lot better.

And no, you didn't answer my e-mail but you probably got a lot of them. I can try sending it again..

Before I reply, and because the serve motion is a complicated matter. Perhaps, NBM can give us some clues or insight. He also might have the solution.

This is the type of problem, because it is engrained, that may need the help of a local pro. Like I said, the serve motion is complicated and it may require someone to be by your side forcing you to do it a different way.

I want to wait before advising anything. Maybe Yandell can help as well. He has the eyes of a hawk and has seen many many things over the years. Other knowledgable coaches may have some ideas as well. Normally, I would take something like this to the court.

On the email thing, yes, I do get a lot of them, by I was really watching out for yours. I really dont think it came to my inbox, which tells me there might be a technical problem. Let's try it again. Send it to: usptapro@ctcweb.net

One more thing, when I serve, there is a lot of "balancing" as my motion matures on my toes. I am not on my feet. When my serve motion starts, my toes have to handle a lot of "stuff" going on. I feel light on my toes, and light in the knees even if they are bent. This is because the motion is moving throughout and nothing is "settling" over something. This allows me to use both of these things as a spring board. Becuase my motion happens fast, my knee bend lasts a fraction of a second before I am thrusting upward from my knee bend and my toes. I dont know if you are feeling the "spring" in your legs due to your injuries.

madmanfool
01-14-2009, 09:16 AM
Sorry if it has been posted already, i only had a very quick read. Seems like you already got a lot of help. I would just like to point out you're landing on the wrong foot. I think if you can fix that you're serve will look and feel a lot more natural.
Good luck.

(Also perhaps, you're hitting the ball pretty hard but since your technique isn't perfect, you could hurt yourself. Get a back injury or so because you're not fully extended at contact. So be careful.)

Bungalo Bill
01-14-2009, 09:25 AM
Sorry if it has been posted already, i only had a very quick read. Seems like you already got a lot of help. I would just like to point out you're landing on the wrong foot. I think if you can fix that you're serve will look and feel a lot more natural.
Good luck.

(Also perhaps, you're hitting the ball pretty hard but since your technique isn't perfect, you could hurt yourself. Get a back injury or so because you're not fully extended at contact. So be careful.)

Good observation. I think this is larelgy coming from the way his legs are working and his injuries.

I think what is happening is his upper body is coiling but his legs are sort of in cement. Hence the radical whip around bringing his right foot forward and stepping with it first.

Eph
01-14-2009, 09:50 AM
Want to entertain me and give me an estimate at how fast I could be serving if I had the right technique?

My local pro isn't all that to brag about; I'm currently looking for a better instructor. Should have never left Manhattan - a lot more options there, naturally. Same with Boston. Sigh.

LeeD
01-14-2009, 09:58 AM
First of all, you might want to list your height.
Most decent technique guys who hit first serves make the ball go over 110 mph. The real atheletes who get more body and legs into the shot go higher.
Without a strong sprung set of legs, maybe 100 max.
But it's hard to tell, as #'s mean different things to different people.
Being big and strong, with some limberness and flexibility helps for sure.
But maybe, instead of focusing on pure ball speed, you might work on a more compact motion, get it consistent and repeatable, then go for higher ball speeds.
Once again, you should look to simplify your service motion with regards to your injuries. Look again at "huge serve guys" motion.

Eph
01-14-2009, 09:59 AM
I'm 6'2". Height makes that big a difference?

LeeD
01-14-2009, 10:14 AM
Thanks !!
Height makes a huge difference. First of all, it gives you the angle to hit a fast moving flat ball into the court. Shorties under 5'6" have real problems making the first flat serve go in.
Then height gives you a much longer arm and hitting leverage machine, so you don't have to swing as fast to make the rackethead move fast. Not swinging as fast gives you more control sooner during your learning period.
And with leg injury problems, you're gonna need some height if you want that ball to move fast on your first serve.
Consider.... I"m 5'11", can reach up flat footed maybe 7'5". Most of my taller friends easily reach 8' high flat footed. With all that extra leverage, they can hit "down" onto the court, swing slower, and still hit the ball harder with more consistency.
So once again, look to emulate those tall, simple service motion guys instead of Roddick or Sampras. With an recovering leg, you want the simplest service motion you can find.....for now.

madmanfool
01-14-2009, 10:17 AM
I think what is happening is his upper body is coiling but his legs are sort of in cement. Hence the radical whip around bringing his right foot forward and stepping with it first.

Yes, that's how i see it too. Because of the torque he generates with his upper body when he strikes the ball he is forced to either take a step back with his left foot or a step forward with his right foot. Because of the forward momentum it will normally be the right foot. The problem is that the legs don't lead the motion, but are cemented and therefor have to follow what the rest of his body is doing.

Bungalo Bill
01-14-2009, 10:28 AM
Want to entertain me and give me an estimate at how fast I could be serving if I had the right technique?

No. :)

My local pro isn't all that to brag about; I'm currently looking for a better instructor. Should have never left Manhattan - a lot more options there, naturally. Same with Boston. Sigh.

You are in the North East?

Eph
01-14-2009, 10:29 AM
Yeah. I sent you the e-mail. SHould be subject: Eph from TW

Mike Cottrill
01-14-2009, 10:30 AM
Thanks. What can I do to work on these problems? I have a torn ACL and MCL which I keep putting off surgery on as it's my 3rd one and I don't expect a different outcome than the others. Though I would have the surgery if I thought it would be helpful.

I notice that little twitch and would love to get rid of it. I know my toss needed work but I thought ever since I was turning my back, it got a lot better.

And no, you didn't answer my e-mail but you probably got a lot of them. I can try sending it again..

Hi,
Can you try these simple tests:
Standing up reach up as high as you can with your right hand and be on the tip of your toes and your left elbow down at your waist and left hand close to your left arm pit. Like a little kid trying to reach the cookie jar on the top shelf with his body sideways to the counter. Do you feel any pain in your knees or anywhere else? That is just about the position for making contact with the ball for a serve. If there is no pain, then see below.

You do bend your knees, however you can not push up it appears. If you can not push up because it hurts or knees do have the strength to push your body up, take the knee bend out of the motion for now. Especially until you get the feel of the reach mention above.
Hope this helps
If you get that far, then the High Five is next.

Eph
01-14-2009, 02:22 PM
Hi,
Can you try these simple tests:
Standing up reach up as high as you can with your right hand and be on the tip of your toes and your left elbow down at your waist and left hand close to your left arm pit. Like a little kid trying to reach the cookie jar on the top shelf with his body sideways to the counter. Do you feel any pain in your knees or anywhere else? That is just about the position for making contact with the ball for a serve. If there is no pain, then see below.

You do bend your knees, however you can not push up it appears. If you can not push up because it hurts or knees do have the strength to push your body up, take the knee bend out of the motion for now. Especially until you get the feel of the reach mention above.
Hope this helps
If you get that far, then the High Five is next.
I don't have any pain doing that. I'll continue trying and see if I start to get a "lift".

Ballinbob
01-14-2009, 02:39 PM
Hey BB, if you don't mind, could you look at my serve real quick too? I don't mean to hijack the thread here, but I never got your input from my last thread. You don't have to give me a big analysis or anything, but just like a pointer or two and that'll be fine. I got alot of advice from everyone else but just wondering what you think.

Eph, if you don't want me to post my vid here though I understand. I really don't mean to hijack, just want his input on my serve real fast and that's it. I don't want to make another thread:?

link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2A7nXTui4Y&feature=related

Eph
01-14-2009, 02:41 PM
No problem with me. I only care about my threads turning into a lose weight thread or change racquet thread.

FWIW, you seem to be stopping your serve after the knee bend. Maybe that's OK, but I'd say judging from the comments I've gotten that that is where you're losing power.

LeeD
01-14-2009, 02:47 PM
Tell us the truth BB.....
I know you have a good serve and a good service motion.
Just how fast are you swinging compared to how fast you CAN swing?
Seems like you're just loafing thru at 60% to me.

Ballinbob
01-14-2009, 02:56 PM
Lol I have no idea, maybe your right. That's why I want BB's imput. I think I've got the basics down but maybe I'm loosing power somewhere. I fixed my feet positioning so I'm getting more body rotation, which helped alot, but this is still pretty much my service motion.

LeeD, I really don't know how much faster I can swing. Believe it or not, I'm pretty sure that's close to my fastest swing. Does that seem like something to work on then? If increasing my swing speed will help with power and stuff then I'll give it a try, but I don't know if it will help that much. I've been working with my coach on timing on my serve for consistency, and swining faster may distract me from that. I'm slicing through my serves alot more for control too, and that's helped my serve quite a bit

Bungalo Bill
01-14-2009, 03:00 PM
Tell us the truth BB.....
I know you have a good serve and a good service motion.
Just how fast are you swinging compared to how fast you CAN swing?
Seems like you're just loafing thru at 60% to me.

I am not sure if you are really directing this to me. But I also am called BB at times.

Ballinbob
01-14-2009, 03:02 PM
^^^He's talking to me lol

Bungalo Bill
01-14-2009, 03:09 PM
Hey BB, if you don't mind, could you look at my serve real quick too? I don't mean to hijack the thread here, but I never got your input from my last thread. You don't have to give me a big analysis or anything, but just like a pointer or two and that'll be fine. I got alot of advice from everyone else but just wondering what you think.

Eph, if you don't want me to post my vid here though I understand. I really don't mean to hijack, just want his input on my serve real fast and that's it. I don't want to make another thread:?

link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2A7nXTui4Y&feature=related

Not bad my friend. Not bad.

Work on using your lower body more in your upward and outward thrust. Need a little more coiling in the upper body and really relax your shoulder and arm. Allow the entire arm to be flung toward the ball as loose as possible. It should feel like your arm is going to pull itself out of its socket. Keep extending.

Here is an example of Federer. Note his hips and legs in the motion and how active they are in helping him go up and out to the ball. Note his hitting arm and how it is flung to the ball from the kinetic energy. Note his non-hitting arm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWC1hcKBh4g&feature=related

Ballinbob
01-14-2009, 03:18 PM
Alright got it, yet another thing to work on lol. Basics/fundamentals are good then, just need to improve it further right?

Thanks btw, appreciate it

Bungalo Bill
01-14-2009, 03:22 PM
Alright got it, yet another thing to work on lol. Basics/fundamentals are good then, just need to improve it further right?

Thanks btw, appreciate it

Well, if you want to get better, it doesn't ever end. However, if you are satisifed with your game and dont desire to improve, you have arrived. :)

Ballinbob
01-14-2009, 03:31 PM
No of course I want to improve. That was a dumb comment on my part lol, not sure why I'm complaining about too much stuff to work on. The more stuff I have the better. I don't want to be stuck at the 3.5 level for the rest of my life, I want to get way more than that out of my tennis career. I just feel like I don't improve fast enough. I'm going to try and make it to a DII tennis school when I'm 18. When I'm not studying, I'm either running or playing tennis. Some people told me it's going to be pretty much impossible to make it to a DII school when I hit 18, but I'm looking to prove them wrong. I can make it to a DII school for track for sure, but cmon, ask anyone and they'll tell you tennis is alot more fun than track...I for one would rather play tennis than run the 100m all day

Mike Cottrill
01-14-2009, 03:44 PM
I don't have any pain doing that. I'll continue trying and see if I start to get a "lift".

I suggest you take the legs out of until you get the stretch feel down. I can not tell if the inability to lift from the knee bend is causing you to be bent over when you make contact or if it is something else. You need to feel that stretch. Do not swing hard when doing what I suggest. Take a video of you trying that.

LeeD
01-14-2009, 04:04 PM
Sorry for my confusing post, BungalowBill...
As usual, I didn't think it thru.
And I know you would swing out if you were presenting a video of your service motion, and not hold back.

Bungalo Bill
01-14-2009, 04:37 PM
No of course I want to improve. That was a dumb comment on my part lol, not sure why I'm complaining about too much stuff to work on.


Seems like that. I find that todays generation wants everything to happen now.

Be patient, set up your practices. Having a serve practice once a week is a lot more than what 90% of the players you will compete with do. Maybe 90% is much, but you got the picture.

Serving and return of serve are key practice areas that go largely unrealized. Will you be one of the few? The Few, The Proud, the Ballinbob's? hahahaha

Eph
01-14-2009, 04:40 PM
Did you get my e-mail?

Bungalo Bill
01-14-2009, 04:42 PM
Did you get my e-mail?

Yup, I did. Thanks.

Got to go watch me daughter play some basketball and I will try to respond to it tonight.

Ballinbob
01-14-2009, 05:19 PM
The Few, The Proud, the Ballinbob's? hahahaha

Must be an old person joke... but ok:-?

Djokovicfan4life
01-14-2009, 05:33 PM
I think he was doing a parody of the Marines ads, haha.

LeeD
01-14-2009, 05:46 PM
BallingBob....
When you look at your vids, it's easy to track the racket thru it's whole swing.
Then when I look at "huge serve guys" serve, his racket moves much faster.
That's all I'm saying. I know you have a long, smooth motion, which is easier to track, rather than a short, jerky motion maybe like Roddicks.
That's one of the reasons I mentioned the bounce of the first flat fast ball, to see where it bounces against the backdrop. It has to go in, it should be somewhat new balls.
Today 70 degrees again here in California, I hit maybe 50 first serves, about half in, which maybe 20 bounced higher than waist high against the backdrop. The one's that didn't were mishits off the top of the racket.
I want your serve to be better (placement) and faster than mine. Mine is struck by an old 59 year old oft injured player heading towards social security retirement.

Ballinbob
01-14-2009, 06:06 PM
LeeD, I guess I'll just have to work on generating more racket speed then. I try and swing my fastest though, I definitely don't hold back while serving. I've been working on timing/consistency with my serve for like 2 weeks, and now that I can consistently hit 95-100mph, I'm going to start going for more power again. So i'll try swinging faster and going for more power and hopefully my serve will keep improving.

LeeD
01-14-2009, 07:14 PM
Good stuff....
And remember to keep the same stroke mechanics while you speed up the rackethead.
I wish I was 6' tall and growing.
Good you're adding a small amount of spin on the first serve, so the percentage increases too.
And be sure to work on the placement on each and every serve you hit!

[osu]ilovecows
01-14-2009, 07:35 PM
You're still landing on the wrong foot, I don't know if it has to do with your the status of your knees but I'd pay closer attention to it.

ssjkyle31
01-14-2009, 07:54 PM
Eph, WTG you actually improved a lot. I think you serve motion was better then the last video. Depending on your goals, you may have to work within the limitation that you stated in your earlier post. I know because I was a result of a truck meet pedestrian accident. I still have to lose some weight because LeeD said I was a overweight teenager, LOL :).

Kevo
01-14-2009, 08:35 PM
Ballinbob,

I like your service motion in the video. Very good overall. One thing I noticed that should help you add some pop, is that you don't get that back shoulder down as far as you could. The vertical shoulder rotation in the service motion can add a lot of pop, and it also helps with extension. Try to get the front shoulder as high as possible and the back shoulder as low as possible when you throw up the tossing arm. See if you notice any difference and report back. :-)

Bungalo Bill
01-14-2009, 10:39 PM
BallingBob....
When you look at your vids, it's easy to track the racket thru it's whole swing.
Then when I look at "huge serve guys" serve, his racket moves much faster.
That's all I'm saying. I know you have a long, smooth motion, which is easier to track, rather than a short, jerky motion maybe like Roddicks.
That's one of the reasons I mentioned the bounce of the first flat fast ball, to see where it bounces against the backdrop. It has to go in, it should be somewhat new balls.

Roddick does not have a jerky motion. He also uses a long abbreviated motion (if there is such a thing) so it is not short.

You should study his serve sometime. Roddick generates a tremendous amount of kinetic energy through his body which is something to study. His entire motion is fluid and well timed which helps him generate a ton of power and he really goes through the ball.

One of the things about Roddick that goes unnoticed which I tried to mention above is how Roddick springs off his toes as he uses his legs to go up and outward to hit the ball. I also balance on my toes as my motion progresses.

Here is a start. Watch how Roddick springs from his toes and legs to go up for the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muKDqiVer0k&feature=related

W Cats
01-15-2009, 09:14 AM
Eph

There was something about your fore and aft movement didn't set right with me. originally I thought you were shifting your weight to the front leg a little too soon but upon closer inspection that wasn't quite it. I finnaly looked more closely at your chest and shoulders, since I useually start at the feet and move my way up. It appears to me that is leaned rather forward when you are at your deep knee bend and if you did spring with your legs you would end up into to the court more than self preservation might dictate and go down like a fallen tree. Perhaps this is why sometimes it looked like your contact was a bit behind you. If this is the case using BB's suggestion for simplifying thoe toss may improve your balance and body position prior to leg extension.

W Cats
01-15-2009, 09:15 AM
Sorry, I didn't edit before pressing the submit button on my last post. My Bad

Ballinbob
01-15-2009, 03:11 PM
Ballinbob,

I like your service motion in the video. Very good overall. One thing I noticed that should help you add some pop, is that you don't get that back shoulder down as far as you could. The vertical shoulder rotation in the service motion can add a lot of pop, and it also helps with extension. Try to get the front shoulder as high as possible and the back shoulder as low as possible when you throw up the tossing arm. See if you notice any difference and report back. :-)

Thanks, will give it a try. Judging by the look of the courts the snow will all be dried up tomorrow, so I'll give it a go then. By the way, is my service motion like good enough to take me to higher levels or will I have to change it as I move up? I've always had this feeling that my service motion won't work at the higher levels and I dont know why. You know what I'm saying here? Like some people have a serve that works at the 3.5 level and can get away with stuff at that level, but at the 4.0 level to be successful they have to change their whole serve. Are my serve mechanics okay overall? If that's the case all I have to do is gradually add power right...? Anyway, will try the shoulder drop tomorrow and I'll report back. If I can vid my serve tomorrow then i'll do that as well...just need to convince someone to come with me

the wise wizard
01-16-2009, 07:00 PM
So I think I got it this time. The only thing that seems off to me is the leg bend and finishing it because my knees are going in different directions. I hold my back much more now which I've noticed a difference in. Helps with control. I think I've lost some speed though.

Please tell me what you think.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTbBvckYQso

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJGB1N6fUsc (I was more tired in this video)

something i have noticed is that you toss the ball very high and then wait for it to come back to your strike zone, making it harder to time your contact. if i were you i would try to toss so the ball peaks at or just a little above your strike zone.

BullDogTennis
01-17-2009, 07:03 PM
it looks like your "patty caking" it. toss it up higher, get the racquet back farther and hit up on the ball.

J011yroger
01-17-2009, 07:07 PM
Dude, my offer still stands, e-mail me whenever. Or wait until spring.

J

Eph
01-17-2009, 07:08 PM
Dude, my offer still stands, e-mail me whenever. Or wait until spring.

J

I did but I never heard back from you.

J011yroger
01-17-2009, 09:02 PM
Sorry must have missed it. Unlike me to not reply.

J