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View Full Version : What NTRP rating would you give this guy if you didn't know he was Andy Murray?


oneguy21
01-16-2009, 01:53 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71j8AaqnVlM

He's the guy in the black. Tell me what you would've given him if you didn't know he was Murray.

dennis10is
01-16-2009, 03:45 PM
between 3.0 and 3.5.

Massive amount of technical errors in his strokes.

Poor movement and footwork.

Inferior physical build.

Subpar athletic ability, slow, uncoordinated, out of shape.

Kevo
01-16-2009, 04:41 PM
I'd say very very good. Especially if you watch the whole clip. The ease that he hits some of those touch shots is telling, as is the purposeful curve that he hits on a few shots. You very rarely see an amateur player hit those, and extremely rarely do they do on purpose in the appropriate situation.

jasoncho92
01-16-2009, 04:42 PM
Hope dennis was kidding. No 3.0-3.5 can hit balls on the rise that well while using bad footwork. From that video, i probably wouldve guessed that he was a pro to be honest. The courts look too much like those at pro events. But if i had no idea, i wouldve said he was a 5.5 because its apparant that hes not trying and he is getting every single shot on the rise (pretty much), and getting that all back with decent pace, all while not trying.

mental midget
01-16-2009, 05:21 PM
tournament player, 6.0 or higher. the difference? when the rallying section of the video begins, you'll notice, he does not miss a single ball, and every shot is hit with purpose and obvious control.

were we supposed to say he doesn't look impressive?

raiden031
01-16-2009, 05:42 PM
Most TTW-certified NTRP raters would most certainly say he is a 4.0 *at best*. I must say he doesn't look like someone you would say is #4 in the world. I would guess he is good, but not a pro.

RoddickAce
01-16-2009, 06:03 PM
I woulda said 5.0+. He isn't trying in his groundies, but his movement just gave it away that he is a good player.
Edit: Got to the middle part of the video where he hits hard, ok, if I didn't know he was Andy Murray, I still woulda said he was a 6.0+ player.

tennisfreak15347
01-16-2009, 06:12 PM
i would have said atleast 6.0+ if I didn't know who he was. He's hitting groundstrokes on the rise very easily and effortlessly. These are only warm ups too.

BU-Tennis
01-16-2009, 06:24 PM
I think that mere fact that more than one person has said anything less than a pro reveals how weak the rating system really is. Also, this proves that, while important, basic strokes is only one part of a pros game. You don't garner any type of mental capability of the player from this video. Neither do we see his serve or return. Volleys are left out as well. The only good thing about the rating system is that it tends to be somewhat consistent based on a persons strokes. But we all know that practicing and just hitting is much different from actual match play when there is something on the line.

WildVolley
01-16-2009, 06:53 PM
Honestly, I'd say he was a very good player (5.5+) though I would have no reason to believe he's one of the top ten players in the world from that clip.

The thing that clearly puts him above the 4s level is he doesn't hit any really bad shots. He's obviously not tense when he hits and he doesn't spray any shots or hit them long.

I'll admit that when I see players above 5.0+, I have difficulty judging their ability. Of course, if there is a video of them consistently hitting serves in at over 110mph, I tend to think 6+.

Threes rarely look very good on video. 4s tend to hit wild shots, but video doesn't tell the whole story. The only 5.0 player I coached had an unimpressive game on video during practice, but he took apart most 4.5s in matches with pinpoint accuracy.

W Cats
01-16-2009, 07:54 PM
Maybe the sound on my download is out of sync. but it appears that during the first 1/3 of the video when he looks a little sloppy on the foot work that not only is he hitting the balls on the rise that are for the most part hit pretty deep. They might also be volleys which gives him even less time to prepare for the shots that he hits in a fairly relaxed manner on grass. If they are volleys I wonder what degree of slice they have.

Cool vid. thanks for posting.:)

Mick
01-16-2009, 08:14 PM
i would say 5.0.
in that clip, he didn't have to hit any ball at the 7.0 level because they were easy balls coming to where he stood.

but a player less than 5.0 ability probably would not be able to hit those shots with the ease that murray displayed.

Steady Eddy
01-16-2009, 08:31 PM
That's surprising isn't it? Really good pros often make tennis look easy. Tennis doesn't look easy in that video. The players look good, but because they don't make it look easy. I would never have guessed that either of them is world class. This shows how hard tennis really is. An NBA can do flashy slamdunks that tell everyone how good he is, but a really good tennis player might not impress many people. It's hard to stand out on a tennis court. It's just the nature of the game.

mtommer
01-16-2009, 08:45 PM
I would have guessed a college level player. I see that kind of hitting around here all the time. I'm also sitting by two universities. WMU (Div. 1) and K College FWIW.

wihamilton
01-16-2009, 08:58 PM
between 3.0 and 3.5.

Massive amount of technical errors in his strokes.

Poor movement and footwork.

Inferior physical build.

Subpar athletic ability, slow, uncoordinated, out of shape.

2nd. He'll never make it.

ssjkyle31
01-16-2009, 09:10 PM
I would rate him at a 5.5 to a 6.5 just because of the speed the ball was coming back and him effortless hitting them back. No 3.5 can easily return those balls coming back at that pace and depth. You pretty much can tell the spin and pace of the balls were fast.

ZPTennis
01-16-2009, 09:18 PM
Everyone should watch his backhand right at 50 seconds. Thats PURE timing. The majoriting of this shot was hit with more wrist flick than anything to compensate for him not getting his feet into position. That shot alone tells you this guy is seriously good. And all of his other 2 handed backhands are incredibly smooth. You don't see that kind of smoothness from even 5.5 players.

After the whole video, I would honestly think he was a pro if i didn't know who he was.

ronalditop
01-16-2009, 09:21 PM
i wouldve know he was a pro even if i didnt know he was murray. those shots were amazingly good, and he make it looks so easy and effortless.

mawashi
01-16-2009, 09:32 PM
In the early part of the vid you'll notice that he can basically stay put yet be able to hit back easily all sorts of shots from half volleys to low balls and the ease at which he switches from right to left shots is very telling that he is a very high level player.

In the latter half you can see he is trying all sorts of shots and make it look so easy. Even if you blacked out his face, I'll still give him an easy 7.

You can see his is trying not to make his hitting partner look back :P

mawashi

Ambivalent
01-16-2009, 11:05 PM
I dont get it. Is he playing crappy? Notr that i see of, except for two shots that were jammed into his body.

iamke55
01-17-2009, 03:17 AM
These look like just the kind of shots that people here would rate 3.0-3.5 if they didn't know who the player was.

raiden031
01-17-2009, 04:12 AM
I dont get it. Is he playing crappy? Notr that i see of, except for two shots that were jammed into his body.

I guess because he doesn't look too graceful because he's taking it easy and hitting alot of shots from near his feet and not moving much.

Anyways, after watching the video again, I see his backhand actually looks amazing and smooth. I don't like his forehand follow-through and think that looks a little ugly here.

raiden031
01-17-2009, 04:17 AM
I think that mere fact that more than one person has said anything less than a pro reveals how weak the rating system really is. Also, this proves that, while important, basic strokes is only one part of a pros game. You don't garner any type of mental capability of the player from this video. Neither do we see his serve or return. Volleys are left out as well. The only good thing about the rating system is that it tends to be somewhat consistent based on a persons strokes. But we all know that practicing and just hitting is much different from actual match play when there is something on the line.

I don't think the system is weak. Its just that it is misused by people. People assume that they can easily translate between the NTRP descriptions and what the game will look like on video. There is no such translation. On one hand the USTA will say in their FAQ that NTRP is results-based, but on the other hand they will encourage use of their descriptive guidelines for self-rating purposes.

jasoncho92
01-17-2009, 04:58 AM
I don't think the system is weak. Its just that it is misused by people. People assume that they can easily translate between the NTRP descriptions and what the game will look like on video. There is no such translation. On one hand the USTA will say in their FAQ that NTRP is results-based, but on the other hand they will encourage use of their descriptive guidelines for self-rating purposes.
The thing is, 90% of people who self rate are low level players. They always overestimate their tennis capabilities unless they have been humbled by higher level players. The system itself is not weak, but when its setup like it was, its inevitable that it will be misused.

EPaps
01-17-2009, 08:39 AM
doesn't everyone always say "we don't rate you when you show us a video of your warmup" because it's impossible to say...

SmAsH999
01-17-2009, 02:21 PM
i'd give him a 5.5-6.0. Although he wasn't ripping the ball with heavy spin or anything, him form throughout was outstanding.

fps
01-18-2009, 09:49 AM
what more do you want of a video of a pro playing some light points when switching back to grass? in the latter half of the video the ease with which he hit quality shots was insane.