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m27
01-16-2009, 03:30 PM
this post originated in another thread, but I decided it would be a shame to put all this effort into it only for it to be buried on page 3 of some obscure thread where nobody would ever see it.

anyway, a picture is worth a thousand words. lets look at three players whose backhands kicks ***, and one whose sucks:

http://www.kovagroup.ca/tennis/prep.jpg
ONE OF THESE DOES NOT BELONG

for whom it is not apparent...
1) look at the position of blake's racquet. the top is barely in line with his shoulders. federer, gasquet, and kuerten all have their racquets way back and up; you cant even see their elbows. blake's elbow is down between shoulder and waist height and clearly visible. you might think he's halfway through his stroke, but this is the farthest point of his backswing.
2) look at the shoulder rotation of each player. every angle is slightly different, but you can see that every player (except blake) has massive shoulder rotation and is showing their back to their opponent. blake is side-on to his opponent, or possibly even a bit open.
3) look at the legs of each player. they all have quite wide stances with their weight far behind the front foot (laterally); ie, if they were to lift up their rear leg, they would fall backwards. blake's feet are far too close together and his front leg is tucked in instead of being out. this leads to poor balance and ineffective weight transfer.

http://www.kovagroup.ca/tennis/con.jpg

again, one of these does not belong. look at his legs. look at how little his torso and shoulder have moved since the beginning of the stroke and compare it with other players.

for those of you who think I used a particularly bad video of blake... the video that I got these images from was posted by Bungalo Bill as an ideal model backhand. :rolleyes: when I told him that blake's backhand (and this video in particular) was a poor model, his reaction was very hostile (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=239786).

anyway, I'm sure his response to this thread will be as unintelligible as his posts in the aforementioned thread. from the rest of you, I would appreciate some feedback.

jasoncho92
01-16-2009, 03:39 PM
Maybe his rounded back is due to scoliosis as a child. You hatin on handicapped brah? (jk)

drakulie
01-16-2009, 06:33 PM
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll65/Wulfger/failedThread.jpg

m27
01-16-2009, 06:34 PM
[ IMG]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll65/Wulfger/failedThread.jpg[/IMG]

[ IMG]http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w330/ajx23_2008/funny.gif[/IMG]

you sure showed me

jmjmkim
01-16-2009, 06:39 PM
On the flip side, Academically, which one does not belong? Didn't James Blake attend Harvard?

[osu]ilovecows
01-16-2009, 07:06 PM
Aren't you the guy who said he could beat an ATP player? XD Yeah, we should definitely listen to this guy, he knows what he's talking about!

Still waiting on that footage you promised us from 10 days ago of your new abilities hahahahha.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=238267
yes. and it's been a month and a half, which is appreciably longer when you play 3-5 hours a day and improve your movement and strokes as obsessively as I do. anyway, the proof is in the pudding: video.

no

done. will be making a video tonight (been wanting to do that anyway). probably won't be the best quality (camera position and ****** camera to begin with), but I don't want that to be an excuse and you'll see my strokes just fine.

m27
01-16-2009, 07:09 PM
ilovecows;3013449']Aren't you the guy who said he could beat an ATP player?
never ever said that.

m27
01-16-2009, 07:09 PM
btw, love how not a single reply thus far has been on topic. way to counter me with analysis, guys.

Fedace
01-16-2009, 07:11 PM
If you notice,, Blake's back swing isn't as full as other great backhands.. Therefore he ends up using too much of the arm and shoulders and not enough of the trunk and legs. therefore, less power and less control.

Ballinbob
01-16-2009, 07:15 PM
His backhand sucks?Since when? That's why he's been in the top 10 for so long right? How many people stay in the top 10 for that long with a bad backhand? His backhand is solid and it demonstrates good technique. And since when do you know more than BB about tennis? Just wait until he sees this and tells you how wrong you are.

Teaching pro vs an arrogant guy who thinks he's all that and likes putting people down. I vote teaching pro...

oh, and you can go and try copying Gasquet's backhand and see how that works out for ya'

rbq4h4
01-16-2009, 07:15 PM
im wondring if this is racialistically motivated since Balke is black?

TokyopunK
01-16-2009, 07:35 PM
The answer is Guga because he has black shorts and everyone else has white shorts!!!

What do I win!!

Tennisguy777
01-16-2009, 07:50 PM
im wondring if this is racialistically motivated since Balke is black?

haha, half black though, just missing an asian guy though you almost got everyone represented. Blakes backhand is easier to do especially for low balls even those other guys use the same technique as him when it comes push to shove.

tennis_balla
01-16-2009, 07:51 PM
m27 you're from Vancouver BC right? Whats your ranking over there in juniors? or men's open?

Tennisguy777
01-16-2009, 07:51 PM
Different strokes for different folks.

m27
01-16-2009, 07:52 PM
also federer is slicing that backhand so that picture doesn't work.
federer is not slicing that backhand

tennis_balla
01-16-2009, 08:10 PM
m27 are you going to answer my question?

ronalditop
01-16-2009, 08:12 PM
i wouldnt say blake's backhand sucks, it is just hideous. ive seen many amateurs players that have the same technique on the backhand that blake has.

tennis_balla
01-16-2009, 08:23 PM
i wouldnt say blake's backhand sucks, it is just hideous. ive seen many amateurs players that have the same technique on the backhand that blake has.

Edberg's forehand wasn't pretty, neither were McEnroe's strokes for example and results speak for themselves. Has Blake won a slam? nope but so what, he's still better then anyone who comes here and posts so whats the point of bashing him? He's held a respectable ranking long enough to be a top player.

eteaGuy
01-16-2009, 09:31 PM
Blake's backhand definitely does not suck. In fact, after having seen him play in person, it's quite solid and packs quite a punch. Maybe his positioning and form is not the best out there, but it gets the job done nicely. It's reliable and he's fairly quick with it.
The four comparison pictures shown in the original post to me says absolutely nothing regarding who belongs or doesnt belong. Rather, what I would like to know is, if you were on the receiving end of any of these guys backhands would you be able to handle it?!

SirBlend12
01-16-2009, 10:15 PM
Another thing is that Blake is a notorious flat hitter. From the look of it, he just hits a flatter backhand. Straight line swing path, flatter shot. Shoulder-knee-shoulder, more spin. They both work fine dependent on the ball you're hitting.

SystemicAnomaly
01-16-2009, 10:21 PM
The answer is Guga because he has black shorts and everyone else has white shorts!!!

What do I win!!

Nah, it's Guga cuz of the black socks.

SystemicAnomaly
01-16-2009, 10:23 PM
ONE OF THESE DOES NOT BELONG:

Again, it's Guga cuz of the lack of headgear.

circusmouse
01-16-2009, 11:06 PM
The reason Blake's backhand looks different is that he's returning a serve. That photo is taken from a youtube clip of him returning serve. He's shortened his backswing, which is great form for returning serve. See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTyyITw-fyo

He's considered one of the most dangerous returners in the game.

jmjmkim
01-16-2009, 11:10 PM
That is awesome research ! WOW.

m27
01-17-2009, 12:15 AM
The reason Blake's backhand looks different is that he's returning a serve. That photo is taken from a youtube clip of him returning serve. He's shortened his backswing, which is great form for returning serve. See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTyyITw-fyo

He's considered one of the most dangerous returners in the game.

mea culpa! if it is indeed a service return, then the video is clearly inappropriate for generalized analysis and the premise of this thread is flawed.

of course, that also leaves Bungalo Bill to explain why he ardently defended a video of a backhand serve return as being an ideal model for a (rally) backhand. ;) at least I recognize that this is not how an ideal backhand is to be hit - he insists that this is perfect form. :p

SystemicAnomaly
01-17-2009, 12:20 AM
Xcellent find, circusmouse.

btw, love how not a single reply thus far has been on topic. way to counter me with analysis, guys.

The bottom line is -- "how effective is Blake's BH?". Earlier in his career, James' BH was a liability. From what I've seen, of late, is that his BH has developed into an asset. I don't really have any stats to back this up tho' -- just my informal observation from a few matches in the past year. Do you have any stats that show that his BH is still a liability?

EikelBeiter
01-17-2009, 12:58 AM
Yeah..... I'm sorry guys... but that is NOT a service return, he's positioned almost in the middle of the court just on the left of the little line in the middle of the court. It's just an ordinary backhand in a rally.

superlobber
01-17-2009, 01:08 AM
By looking at the pictures, James Blake's BH seem a little out of position. But this is just one picture; it could be that he was out of position for this shot. If he does this every shot, then his stance is a little weird. However, his BH is not suck. You don't see his opponent attack his BH like they attack Federer's BH.
The guy just happen to go for broke almost every shop. However, his BH is not suck. I wish my BH is as good as his BH.

tennis_balla
01-17-2009, 03:49 AM
circusmouse, its not a return of serve. Check out the center mark line at the beginning of the video on the baseline, the tape at the net and lastly the linemans positioning. He wouldn't be returning serve on his backhand side being that far out from the singles sideline. Its not a service return....however, the whole argument by the original poster (m27) to me is invalid with his choice of pictures because Federer, Gasquet, and Guga are all hitting a backhand where they have time to setup, and step into it. Blake however does not.
M27 also shoots himself in the foot by thinking Blakes backhand 'sucks' because in that video even though Blake is rushed he still maintains perfect balance, finishes the shot on his front foot, has a nice simple short backswing and takes the ball on the rise, and keeps his left hand back for balance. I'm sure others can find more things but all those are necessary basic things to have a great backhand, especially in the situation he was in.
....and to go back to what was said in another thread thats related to this by Bungalo Bill, I agree with bill in that Blakes backhand is a good tool to use as an example for students with one handers. The number reason for me is because its so simple and he always keeps his shoulders nice and balanced. Simple take back and swing, there isn't any effort wasted in the shot. Its a backhand that will allow a student to see and understand the basic principles of how to hit a one hander. Its not flashy and thats the best part about it.

RoddickAce
01-17-2009, 05:39 AM
Yeah..... I'm sorry guys... but that is NOT a service return, he's positioned almost in the middle of the court just on the left of the little line in the middle of the court. It's just an ordinary backhand in a rally.
Also, the ball was coming up from the the other side of the net.

Clay lover
01-17-2009, 06:00 AM
Well, while you can the intention of the thread starter, I still think Blake really does have an inferior backhand to the three other guys, so this thread may be making a valid observation.

mental midget
01-17-2009, 06:10 AM
that he can compete on the tour with it suggests his backhand doesn't suck.

however i'm not sure it's the perfect teaching model. he hits with a pretty low margin for error. blake's a really strong guy, and he gets away with muscling it a bit through the strike zone with that very abbreviated motion. not sure if the average player is going to get anywhere near the same results as he does, with the same motion.

there are 129 threads lavishing praise on gasquet's backhand, why not use that for a model? or edberg, or stich? federer?

RoddickAce
01-17-2009, 06:30 AM
that he can compete on the tour with it suggests his backhand doesn't suck.

however i'm not sure it's the perfect teaching model. he hits with a pretty low margin for error. blake's a really strong guy, and he gets away with muscling it a bit through the strike zone with that very abbreviated motion. not sure if the average player is going to get anywhere near the same results as he does, with the same motion.

there are 129 threads lavishing praise on gasquet's backhand, why not use that for a model? or edberg, or stich? federer?

Gasquet's backhand has a huge loop which might be hard for "average" club players to time properly. His backhand is awesome, but not everyone can hit it with the same technique.

SystemicAnomaly
01-17-2009, 12:01 PM
Gasquet's backhand has a huge loop which might be hard for "average" club players to time properly. His backhand is awesome, but not everyone can hit it with the same technique.

I agree that Gasquet has a superb BH that is just way too advanced for most players to emulate. Even Fed's BH has a bit too much flourish in his follow-thru for many.

Jackie T. Stephens
01-17-2009, 12:05 PM
Nice one darkulie :)

dennis10is
01-17-2009, 12:10 PM
The majority of posters here are 3.5 to 4.0.

Blake is a 7.0 player. His 1bh is not the best 1bh on the tour but it is a universe superior to anyone here.

Step on the court with him, hit to him your best ball, and he can return is anyway you want to and it will be better than anything that anyone here can dream of.

You want him to hit a heavy topspin of your best shot? Bam! Not a problem.

He is "limited" only when he's trying to play against a 3100 rpm topspin from Nadal, or the nastiest of slices from Fed. Against the rest of us mortal, our balls are pathetically weak, and he can do anything with it.

It is hysterically funny, to read that people here believes that their strokes are in any way shape of form "better" than any pros.

Jackie T. Stephens
01-17-2009, 12:14 PM
His BH may look awkward to some but I bet if you get on a court with him and play you wouldn't get a single game even if you hit it to his backhand all day :)

SmAsH999
01-17-2009, 01:15 PM
while blake's bh isn't the best, it is certainly up there. However, his form is far from perfect.

mental midget
01-17-2009, 01:57 PM
this thread is all over the place. are people saying they've got a better backhand than blake? this is ludicrous unless we have atp players amongst us.

are people saying blake's is the best backhand on tour? also ludicrous, there are clearly players with more range and consistency.

are we saying blake's backhand should be the de rigeur model for all learning practitioners of the 1hbh? debatable at best.

fluffy Beaver
01-17-2009, 02:19 PM
ilovecows;3013449']Aren't you the guy who said he could beat an ATP player? XD Yeah, we should definitely listen to this guy, he knows what he's talking about!

Still waiting on that footage you promised us from 10 days ago of your new abilities hahahahha.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=238267

His ego is basically bigger than what he can actually do. In that thread, he rated a guy who plays on the ATP/Challengers a 4.0 - 4.5. And when the video posted of him serving an ace, he said it's not that fast and it is easy to return as he returns 115 mph out wide consistently from a friend of his. He also said he hits 70 mph forehands almost almost all the time.

I'm still waiting for his new video he said he'd post.

never ever said that.

But you implied it. You are one of the biggest talkers on the board but never back it up.

fluffy Beaver
01-17-2009, 02:24 PM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=232331

The guy who thinks ATP/Challenger lvl players are not up to par with him.

LeeD
01-17-2009, 02:34 PM
Funny....
I wonder if Blake hits that backhand the way he does because he WANTS to go for lowpercentage, high risk shots!
Maybe he isn't content to push loopy backhands back all day, gets bored, and wants to go for it.
His backhand is fine for him. Not for you and me.
When we have the expertise to get to top 10, THEN we can pick on his backhand and make him look silly.
Until then, he's a GOD with his high risk, low margin for error backhand.

Tennisguy777
01-17-2009, 03:35 PM
Leave Blake alone, Leave Blake alone, Leave Blake alone, aaaaahhahhhaaa,ahhahhahaaa,waaaaaa :cry:

BeHappy
01-18-2009, 10:34 AM
I don't think Blake has a bad backhand at all, by any standards. Blake's weakness is not his backhand, it is his shot selection. The only thing with Blake's backhand is he hit's it altogether too flat. Day in, day out I would rate his backhand better than Federer's. People don't appreciate it because it doesn't look pretty, which is probably because he wears wife beaters, and grunts loudly when he hits it.




Something that has always been very confusing to me is how people raved over Korda's backhand and berate blake for his, technically they are virtually identical.

Also, myself and BB had a massive argument over backhand grips (about a year ago?), and it turned out contrary to our expectations that Blake has an eastern grip and that haas actually has a classic continental!

Again, the problem with Blakes backhand is there is too little low to high, whenever he tries to put more topspin on it, he he just pulls off the ball reducing the pace and keeping the topspin the same, which has obviously led him to concluding that to hit it with pace he needs to hit it flat. I genuinely don't think he understands that if he hits it with more of a low to high swing path he can get the best of both worlds.

Interestingly, the pulling off the ball instead of swinging more low to high is what Roddick does with his forehand these days, maybe tey have both suffered from the "brush up the back of the ball" instruction?

LeeD
01-18-2009, 01:37 PM
Tough one...
I've seen Blake play with confidence and attitude, and NOBODY can beat him when his mind is in the groove. However, that "groove" is a little too late and a dollar too short.
When he's on, he's great.
When he's off, he loses. Sometimes he gets beat, but more often, he loses with uninspired shots or just plain low percentage tennis, the kind he likes to play when he's 'ON".....
Yes, I recognise he's a top 10 player. Yes, I know his backhand would drill past me even if I stood 4' from the sideline.
Since we're critiqueing......

Cnote
01-18-2009, 02:16 PM
Thanks Dennis10is and BeHappy for your research and in-depth responses. Blake is in the top ten in the world and yet someone thinks he or she has the audacity to judge him! There is not one person on this board who likes everyone in the top ten or twenty. Don't hate,just appreciate the game!

swedechris
01-18-2009, 02:22 PM
Maybe his rounded back is due to scoliosis as a child. You hatin on handicapped brah? (jk)


ROFL.. hehe.. good one

oldhacker
01-18-2009, 03:14 PM
m27 - I think you (perhaps deliberately?) are getting the wrong end of the stick when it comes to BB's advice on this one. I doubt anybody is claiming that Blake has a better 1 HBH than Federer or Gasquet both of whom are insanely talented. What he is saying is that Blakes 1 HBH technique is about the best example from the pro-game of a 1 HBH that us lesser mortals can look to employ in our games. As you have pointed out in your analysis Blake has a relatively simple and compact 1 HBH with a 'easy' smile pattern take-back, simple pendulem swing and no intuitive wristiness. Sure the huge high takebacks of Federer or Gasquet, the looped takeback of Gasquet etc, combined with their insane reactions, anticipation, athleticism and talent give them better 1 HBH but if you are an average club player (as most on here are) grappling with a 1 HBH you can take a lot more from Blake's BH.

Kevo
01-18-2009, 07:29 PM
It is hysterically funny, to read that people here believes that their strokes are in any way shape of form "better" than any pros.

I think my backhand is probably better in some ways than Blake's. If I could have his coaching, young start in the game, match experience, and movement I could probably go pro. Unfortunately those things are a lot more difficult to get than a nice 1HBH.

Kevo
01-18-2009, 07:38 PM
Sure the huge high takebacks of Federer or Gasquet, the looped takeback of Gasquet etc, combined with their insane reactions, anticipation, athleticism and talent give them better 1 HBH but if you are an average club player (as most on here are) grappling with a 1 HBH you can take a lot more from Blake's BH.

Well, if you are going to succumb to the mindset of average club player, then you probably deserve the backhand you have. If you're willing to actually play tennis as a sport and put some sweat into it, there's no reason that anyone cannot learn a Gasquet style one hander. I've taught it to several youngsters who just didn't feel comfortable with the two handed backhand. Of course they still need work, but all them were pretty comfortable with a high take back and big shoulder turn. The hardest thing was getting them to really swing the racquet and accept that they were going to miss and hit some balls over the fence.

D. Dokas
01-19-2009, 09:00 AM
okay maybe me can all agree and say that blakes backhand isnt as good as federers on wanwrkinas or etc. BUT! he can hit a decent ball with a good technique and follows the basic shall i say rules of a backhand. (didnt no how to express myself)

rubberduckies
01-19-2009, 09:15 AM
I think my backhand is probably better in some ways than Blake's. If I could have his coaching, young start in the game, match experience, and movement I could probably go pro. Unfortunately those things are a lot more difficult to get than a nice 1HBH.

I feel that way too. I could probably be #1 in the world. I just don't want to :)

D. Dokas
01-19-2009, 09:25 AM
^^^^
yeah i mean you have to actually try to be pro i mean c'mon give us a break:) lol

dennis10is
01-19-2009, 01:25 PM
I think my backhand is probably better in some ways than Blake's. If I could have his coaching, young start in the game, match experience, and movement I could probably go pro. Unfortunately those things are a lot more difficult to get than a nice 1HBH.


If you are a top junior or a top D1 prospect, I will believe that some technical aspects of your backhand may be better but aside from that I can't see it.

His backhand has withstood Roddick 140 mph serves, and Nadal's big forehand. How many pretty 1bh from people here can even come close to that?

I'm two galaxies away from Blake but when I hit my normal rally topspin to self-described tennis experts who spent 30 years playing park tennis, they can't handle my shots with their "technically" sound strokes. If I lay wood on my strokes to Blake's backhand I'm sure he'll say, "Dennis, when are you going to start hitting the ball?"

People have no idea how much of a cream puff their shots are compared to a world class pro.

split-step
01-19-2009, 02:59 PM
I think my backhand is probably better in some ways than Blake's. If I could have his coaching, young start in the game, match experience, and movement I could probably go pro. Unfortunately those things are a lot more difficult to get than a nice 1HBH.

Do you realise how funny your post is?

jmverdugo
01-19-2009, 03:09 PM
Im did not read the whoel thread but, IMO, Blake BH soe not suck.

stormholloway
01-19-2009, 03:48 PM
His backhand, given that he's a professional, leaves a lot to be desired and it definitely not a model to copy. Federer's is the best model to copy I think. It's classic and has no technical faults.

Blake's balance, footwork, and action are all off.

Kevo
01-19-2009, 07:36 PM
Do you realise how funny your post is?

Well, I laughed a little reading it again quoted in your post.

dennis10is
01-19-2009, 07:42 PM
Thanks Dennis10is and BeHappy for your research and in-depth responses. Blake is in the top ten in the world and yet someone thinks he or she has the audacity to judge him! There is not one person on this board who likes everyone in the top ten or twenty. Don't hate,just appreciate the game!

You should thank BeHappy. I didn't say anything important and no research to speak of :)

One thing I've learned as a psychologist is that procedural and declarative knowledge of the same topic are vastly different with little overlap.

Kevo
01-19-2009, 07:57 PM
If you are a top junior or a top D1 prospect, I will believe that some technical aspects of your backhand may be better but aside from that I can't see it.

I'll have to show it to you some time. It's really pretty good technically. I've gotten lots of compliments, and I've had a lot of players decide that my backhand is the better shot and start hitting to my forehand. (All part of my plan. ;-) )

His backhand has withstood Roddick 140 mph serves, and Nadal's big forehand. How many pretty 1bh from people here can even come close to that?

Well, not many. How many of us get a chance to even practice with someone close to that level. Very few. It's incredibly difficult to improve your game without excellent players to hit with.

People have no idea how much of a cream puff their shots are compared to a world class pro.

That's probably true for a lot of people, but I think that there is also a group of players that just hit too hard and don't have consistent control. I mean look at Fernando Gonzalez. He has a monster forehand and a backhand slice that he can't even hit offensively. Sometimes he hits that thing 5 or 6 times in a row. Pace is overrated at times.

What's missing from most people's game is footwork. If I could just borrow Blake's legs, I could jump to 5.5 overnight.

I got to go run more. :-(

Mansewerz
01-19-2009, 08:05 PM
If Blake's backhand sucks, what do we call Feliciano Lopez's backhand?

drakulie
01-19-2009, 08:10 PM
Blake has a 7.0 backhand. World Class, and text book. Anyone who compares their BH to Blakes, or starts threads/suggest theirs is better needs to start posting videos and results against top 10 pros.

lawlitssoo1n
01-19-2009, 08:13 PM
blake has a flat backhand

dennis10is
01-19-2009, 08:28 PM
I'll have to show it to you some time. It's really pretty good technically. I've gotten lots of compliments, and I've had a lot of players decide that my backhand is the better shot and start hitting to my forehand. (All part of my plan. ;-) )



Well, not many. How many of us get a chance to even practice with someone close to that level. Very few. It's incredibly difficult to improve your game without excellent players to hit with.



That's probably true for a lot of people, but I think that there is also a group of players that just hit too hard and don't have consistent control. I mean look at Fernando Gonzalez. He has a monster forehand and a backhand slice that he can't even hit offensively. Sometimes he hits that thing 5 or 6 times in a row. Pace is overrated at times.

What's missing from most people's game is footwork. If I could just borrow Blake's legs, I could jump to 5.5 overnight.

I got to go run more. :-(

Somebody has to show me how to break up a quote like you did with mine so that I can reply to each point.

I don't doubt that your backhand is technically sound. Sounds like we have the same game too.

I don't know if you seen Gonzo live playing against lesser players, say below top 30 or so but what he does against guys who are not Fed, Nadal, Murray etc.. is he would hit many consecutive slice to their backhand corner and dare them to hit dtl to his forehand. He's very accurate, because he has to slice his backhand, deep into their backhand corner. His opponent would run around their backhand but because of the placement they don't have an angle to hit away from his forehand. They can crush it back to his backhand but he would just slice it back deep. Now, if he missed the slice and hit it to the middle of the court, he's dead because his opponent will have an angle to hit sharp cross-court. Then, he would step in and rip a topspin backhand winner down the line.

Rickson
01-19-2009, 08:30 PM
Blake's backhand does not suck.

NamRanger
01-19-2009, 11:15 PM
this post originated in another thread, but I decided it would be a shame to put all this effort into it only for it to be buried on page 3 of some obscure thread where nobody would ever see it.

anyway, a picture is worth a thousand words. lets look at three players whose backhands kicks ***, and one whose sucks:

http://www.kovagroup.ca/tennis/prep.jpg
ONE OF THESE DOES NOT BELONG

for whom it is not apparent...
1) look at the position of blake's racquet. the top is barely in line with his shoulders. federer, gasquet, and kuerten all have their racquets way back and up; you cant even see their elbows. blake's elbow is down between shoulder and waist height and clearly visible. you might think he's halfway through his stroke, but this is the farthest point of his backswing.
2) look at the shoulder rotation of each player. every angle is slightly different, but you can see that every player (except blake) has massive shoulder rotation and is showing their back to their opponent. blake is side-on to his opponent, or possibly even a bit open.
3) look at the legs of each player. they all have quite wide stances with their weight far behind the front foot (laterally); ie, if they were to lift up their rear leg, they would fall backwards. blake's feet are far too close together and his front leg is tucked in instead of being out. this leads to poor balance and ineffective weight transfer.

http://www.kovagroup.ca/tennis/con.jpg

again, one of these does not belong. look at his legs. look at how little his torso and shoulder have moved since the beginning of the stroke and compare it with other players.

for those of you who think I used a particularly bad video of blake... the video that I got these images from was posted by Bungalo Bill as an ideal model backhand. :rolleyes: when I told him that blake's backhand (and this video in particular) was a poor model, his reaction was very hostile (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=239786).

anyway, I'm sure his response to this thread will be as unintelligible as his posts in the aforementioned thread. from the rest of you, I would appreciate some feedback.



The only thing that doesn't belong here is you.

NamRanger
01-19-2009, 11:26 PM
my 2nd serve is a topspin slice at about 100mph (first serve is a 115mph-120mph flat serve that I can place +/- 1 foot). I get lots of free points when I go for the body and sometimes even an ace on the odd wide serve.

sometimes I will hit a topspin slice for my first serve, wide on the deuce side or dtl on the ad side (with more slice spin on the latter)

I can do a kick serve but dont find it any more reliable than the topspin slice and its a lot less likely to mess up my opponent



and yes I will be posting a video soon to back this up :)



Post a video or else leave this forum, as it is very obvious that you are nothing but a troll who contributes nothing to this forum and this world but the pollution of human race gene pool.

SystemicAnomaly
01-20-2009, 01:51 AM
His backhand, given that he's a professional, leaves a lot to be desired and it definitely not a model to copy. Federer's is the best model to copy I think. It's classic and has no technical faults...

Just saw J Blake hit some pretty sweet BH shots in his 1st round AO match against Dancevic. I can really appreciate the simplicity of the Blake BH. For more advanced players, I'd look to Federer or Gasquet. However, for most players, Blake or Sampras would probably be a better place to start as a model to emulate.

Federer & Gasquet have a bit too much flair -- extra kinetic chain links -- that average players should probably not emulate. I've seen far too many players employ far too much torso rotation in an effort to emulate those added links.

stormholloway
01-20-2009, 04:17 AM
I'm not seeing anything superfluous in Federer's shot. I just think there's a lot of rotation and his footwork is really good, better than Blake's.

SystemicAnomaly
01-20-2009, 04:45 AM
^ The thing is that there should not be a lot of rotation for most one-handed BH shots. The torso should stop rotating rather early -- as the forward swing starts -- so that there is a very complete kinetic tranfer to the arm and racket. Fed actually does this most of the time.

However, his front shoulder moves quite a bit more than his back shoulder -- which is fine. On his follow-thru, you will usually see an extra measure of forearm supination and a bit of wristy-ness. It is these extras that players often try to copy and end up moving the back shoulder too much -- resulting in torso rotation late in the foward swing.

drakulie
01-20-2009, 04:58 AM
Federer & Gasquet have a bit too much flair -- extra kinetic chain links -- that average players should probably not emulate. I've seen far too many players employ far too much torso rotation in an effort to emulate those added links.

This is biggest difference. (more flair)

They have a higher take-back (especially Qasquet), and a much more magnified follow-thru>>> making it "nicer" to look at. As for the forward momentum, they are all very similar and have all the "mechanical parts" that make this shot work.

Blakes backhand is textbook (without the flair). Simple, and very easy to use when emulating what the stroke should look at, and why it is a sound stroke.

drakulie
01-20-2009, 04:58 AM
The only thing that doesn't belong here is you.

I agree. He "Fails" big time>>> not only in this thread>> but on the boards.

Bungalo Bill
01-20-2009, 07:03 AM
this post originated in another thread, but I decided it would be a shame to put all this effort into it only for it to be buried on page 3 of some obscure thread where nobody would ever see it.

anyway, a picture is worth a thousand words. lets look at three players whose backhands kicks ***, and one whose sucks:

http://www.kovagroup.ca/tennis/prep.jpg

Whos backhand kicks ars and whos doesnt????? Isnt Federers weaker stroke, his backhand? LOL!!!!!!

Nice twist to support your claims.

Can you please provide the VIDEOS for these strokes? I want to see WHERE in the swing these players were when the photo was snapped and WHAT kind of ball they are hitting. In other words, Blakes racquet did rise higher on the photo you are showing. Granted not much higher but he was also hitting a ball coming directly at him. Therefore, just by the footwork he had to doo, Blake had to take a short quick stroke to hit on time.

Further, because the ball was hit right at him, the quick response, setup, and weight transfer had to happen real quick. I am sure a player of your caliber would know that when a ball is hit right at you and you need to prepare real quick, it is very difficult to get set and take a long full swing at the ball as you are trying to describe.

Can you please provide the videos for the others so we can make sure you are comparing correctly? ;) The bottom-line is, you are fudging your analysis to make it look like you actually know what you are talking about. Unfortunately for you, I am very good at analyzing photos and film.

for whom it is not apparent...
1) look at the position of blake's racquet. the top is barely in line with his shoulders. federer, gasquet, and kuerten all have their racquets way back and up; you cant even see their elbows. blake's elbow is down between shoulder and waist height and clearly visible. you might think he's halfway through his stroke, but this is the farthest point of his backswing.

Once again, when a ball is coming directly at you and you dont have much time to respond, no player will take their lengthy backswing. Although Blake never has had a big long backswing (WHICH I REPEATEDLY HAVE DISCOURAGED PLAYERS LEARNING THE ONEHANDED BACKSWING TO NOT DO), he does have a longer backswing than what you are indicating.

Here is your evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNVn0Q9EDn0

Obviously, you are twisting things to suit you. :)

2) look at the shoulder rotation of each player. every angle is slightly different, but you can see that every player (except blake) has massive shoulder rotation and is showing their back to their opponent. blake is side-on to his opponent, or possibly even a bit open.

First off, you cant use Guga to support your "shoulder rotation" claim. Guga had extraordinary flexibility which was well ahead of the common player and nearly EVERY professional player. Gugas flexibility in the neck was extraordinary.

The key to a good turn of the shoulders is to get the front shoulder under the chin. All professional players usually do this - INCLUDING BLAKE AS SHOWN HERE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNVn0Q9EDn0

3) look at the legs of each player. they all have quite wide stances with their weight far behind the front foot (laterally); ie, if they were to lift up their rear leg, they would fall backwards. blake's feet are far too close together and his front leg is tucked in instead of being out. this leads to poor balance and ineffective weight transfer.

WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!

ROFLMAO!!! You are not comparing apples to apples here!!!!

First off the ball Blake is hitting is coming AT HIM!!! It is coming in very fast!

HERE IS THE VIDEO SEQUENCE. His weight transfer was perfect!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTyyITw-fyo

He barely had enough time to switch his feet and set! He had great balance through the shot!

The shots you are showing are not balls hit DIRECTLY AT THE PLAYER!!!!!

again, one of these does not belong. look at his legs. look at how little his torso and shoulder have moved since the beginning of the stroke and compare it with other players.

LOL!! When a ball is hit directly at a player, you will have barely enough time to position your feet!!! This is hilarious.

for those of you who think I used a particularly bad video of blake... the video that I got these images from was posted by Bungalo Bill as an ideal model backhand. :rolleyes: when I told him that blake's backhand (and this video in particular) was a poor model, his reaction was very hostile (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=239786).

anyway, I'm sure his response to this thread will be as unintelligible as his posts in the aforementioned thread. from the rest of you, I would appreciate some feedback.

Well, first off, I have never said Blake is an "IDEAL" model. You are once again putting words in my mouth. What I did say is Blakes backhand has many of tyhe fundamentals that people should be looking at. I also use Federers backhand, Haas, Gugas, and any other pro that demonstrates good fundamentals. So quit testing things to support your lame analysis.

And secondly, using Gasquets hand pattern for the racquet takeback is a huge mistake for players. Again, we are talking about fundamentals in the swing not the styles. Gasquet is a bad example for taking back the racquet as is Guga for most club players. Care to challenge me on that?

The reason I use the video of Blake all the time, is because it is:

1. Available

2. It demonstrates good fundamentals in footwork, the smile pattern racquet takeback, extention, the "L's" in the racquet to arm, and followthrough.

So the bottom-line is, your analysis above was tainted. It was skewed to support your lame analysis which showed nothing because you didnt compared them correctly. Further, Blakes backhand is a good backhand to view fundamentals to use in helping a player develop their backhand even further.

Bungalo Bill
01-20-2009, 08:07 AM
http://tennis.about.com/od/playersmale/ss/jamesblakephoto_9.htm

Bungalo Bill
01-20-2009, 08:09 AM
http://www.lawntennis.blogspot.com/2007/05/learning-from-james-blake.html

Bungalo Bill
01-20-2009, 08:18 AM
I would like all of you interested to study the link below. M27 has a problem in differentiating a fundamental from a style difference.

When I use Blake as a model, I am not looking at it to turn everyone into having James Blakes backhand.

We are looking at the FUNDAMENTALS of the backhand that should be there in all backhands.

I also am a promoter of the "smile" pattern. Some call it a "straight takeback" which is to me, misleading because it is not quite bringing the racquet straight back.

But to further clarify where we are going, please read UNIT TURN in the KEY POSITIONS section. You will see there is a difference between style and fundamental.

We are concerned with the fundamental of Blakes stroke and not the style.

Comprende?

http://www.playerdevelopment.usta.com/pdmediabooks/assets/men/James%20Blake/PerformanceAnalysis.html

Select "backhand" for the analysis.

amx13
01-20-2009, 09:00 AM
I totally agree with Bungalo Bill, almost impossible to judge one player´s stroke mechanich based on a single shot. I bet if someone would do that taking this Fed´s shot would grade him a 3.5 player :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxzFlrFfUrg&feature=PlayList&p=6E9AA2D20DB7478C&playnext=1&index=32

tennis_balla
01-20-2009, 09:35 AM
m27 makes his game sound amazing but I'm still awaiting his answer to my question about his ranking. I guess thats fair enough to ask considering whats been said by him in this thread. Its not in a way to bash him but to see where he's at.

Fedace
01-20-2009, 09:40 AM
Pros in top 10 are thanking their lucky stars that blake's backhand does suck. Otherwise Blake would have won 2 slams by now.

Fedace
01-20-2009, 09:41 AM
Give James the GUGA backhand, then you are looking at the NEW aussie open champion...

Kevo
01-20-2009, 10:01 AM
Somebody has to show me how to break up a quote like you did with mine so that I can reply to each point.

Just break it up with the (Bracket)QUOTE(Bracket) and (Bracket)/QUOTE(Bracket) tags.

I don't know if you seen Gonzo live playing against lesser players, say below top 30 or so but what he does against guys who are not Fed, Nadal, Murray etc.. is he would hit many consecutive slice to their backhand corner and dare them to hit dtl to his forehand. He's very accurate, because he has to slice his backhand, deep into their backhand corner. His opponent would run around their backhand but because of the placement they don't have an angle to hit away from his forehand. They can crush it back to his backhand but he would just slice it back deep. Now, if he missed the slice and hit it to the middle of the court, he's dead because his opponent will have an angle to hit sharp cross-court. Then, he would step in and rip a topspin backhand winner down the line.

I haven't seen him play live, and I have seen him hit his topspin backhand very effectively. But, what you describe about the strategy of his play with that medium pace slice is exactly the point. You don't have to have perfect strokes to play high level tennis. I find that encouraging. You do have to have some good speed and footwork. That is somewhat discouraging.

Bungalo Bill
01-20-2009, 10:08 AM
Pros in top 10 are thanking their lucky stars that blake's backhand does suck. Otherwise Blake would have won 2 slams by now.

But Blakes backhand doesnt suck. That is the point I am trying to make. M27 took a photo of a shot that Blake had to turn real quick on and make a play on the ball. Blake has extremely quick feet and even with his quick reaction he still was able to shift his weight into the ball.

M27 went on to tell us about Blakes left leg, however, Blake was doing everything right with his left leg.

M27 went on to tell us about how spread out others feet where, however, he failed to show us what kind of ball the others were hitting and how much time they had to setup for the ball.

M27 went on to tell us about the right leg and how "other" pros plant that foot. Only on high balls did he say that they lift their front foot. I am prepared to show otherwise.

M27 compares Gugas takeback on a ball vs. Blakes takeback, however, there is no mention if these balls are the same. There is also no mention that Gugas has extremely flexible neck and back muscles and Blakes issue with his health.

Further, show me where Blakes backhand sucks? Even if there were several things, I could still show you fundamentals he does right.

There is no question that Blakes backhand is not the liability it was before. Further, the liability in his backhand was more about his vision and shot selection than any other thing.

Here we are reviewing technique and fundamentals of that technique which Blake is easily enough for the aspiring tennis player.

THE FUNDAMENTAL ASPECTS OF A ONEHANDED BACKHAND ARE

1. FOOTWORK

2. LEG WORK (LOWERING, PUSHOFF, WEIGHT TRANSFER SUPPORT, ETC..)

3. BODY ALIGNMENT

4. NON-DOMINANT ARM USE

5. SHOULDER TURN (WHAT IS SUFFICIENT)

6. RACQUET PREPARATION

7. SIMPLICITY

8. SMILE PATTERN OR LOOP PATTERN (I PREFER TO TEACH THE SMILE PATTERN AS MOST CAN NBOT HANDLE THE LOOP PATERN LIKE GUGA OR GASQUET HAS)

9. YOUR HEAD.

10. RACQUET HEAD POSITION AND ANGLE

11. ARM ANGLE

12. CONTACT POINT

13. FOLLOWTHROUGH

14. RECOVERY

To say BLakes backhand sucks clearly shows a players ignorance on what Blake has achieved an done in his career. It also shows ignorance as to why Blakes backhand was a liability.

Fedace
01-20-2009, 10:13 AM
^^Have you seen the Houston Finals in 08. he was playing this guy who is a relative journeyman and he was hitting 99% of the shots to Blake backhand and James just fell apart. James's backhand looked like it was 3.5 level.

Jonny S&V
01-20-2009, 10:19 AM
^^Have you seen the Houston Finals in 08. he was playing this guy who is a relative journeyman and he was hitting 99% of the shots to Blake backhand and James just fell apart. James's backhand looked like it was 3.5 level.

Umm, if the scale was 0.0 = beginner and 3.5 = professional tennis player maybe... :roll:

Bungalo Bill
01-20-2009, 10:20 AM
^^Have you seen the Houston Finals in 08. he was playing this guy who is a relative journeyman and he was hitting 99% of the shots to Blake backhand and James just fell apart. James's backhand looked like it was 3.5 level.

Look, I am not going to sit here and say you need Blakes backhand to get good results. What I am saying is Blake has fundamentals in his backhand that are common to all players. Further, you really dont know why Blakes backhand fell apart. You dont know his health issues or anything else.

Everyones "stroke" falls apart.

However, if you can see the fundamentals in his backhand as you can see the same fundamentals in others backhand, that is what you should be focusing on.

You are trying to see which backhand is "winning" so you can copy it. You are excluding so much information on what allows a player to hit his onehander well and so much of it is what happens in the brain and a players vision.

Did you ever think of that?

At this site, I use many players backhands to prove a point and not just Blakes backhand. That video is easily available and shows various aspects on what we should see in a players bakchand. The footwork, the unit turn, etc...

Bungalo Bill
01-20-2009, 10:22 AM
Give James the GUGA backhand, then you are looking at the NEW aussie open champion...

Another ridiculous statement.

jmverdugo
01-20-2009, 11:32 AM
Again, Blake BH doesnt suck, if anything is wrong is just the way he chooses to use it, but again, that is his game.

habib
01-20-2009, 02:40 PM
this post originated in another thread, but I decided it would be a shame to put all this effort into it only for it to be buried on page 3 of some obscure thread where nobody would ever see it.

anyway, a picture is worth a thousand words. lets look at three players whose backhands kicks ***, and one whose sucks:

http://www.kovagroup.ca/tennis/prep.jpg
ONE OF THESE DOES NOT BELONG

anyway, I'm sure his response to this thread will be as unintelligible as his posts in the aforementioned thread. from the rest of you, I would appreciate some feedback.

This may have been covered already, but just in case:

The clip from which that still originates is Blake returning a serve. This accounts of your gripes, including footwork, racquet position, etc....

Further, if you're going to make an argument that his backhand sucks based on his takeback compared to Gasquet, Federer and Guga, maybe you'd like to argue that his forehand sucks based on the fact that he has an abbreviated take back (and virtually no loop) on that as well?

Mind you, Blake's backhand isn't as good as Gasquet's, or Federer's, or Guga's (may as well compare Moya's forehand to Blake's, Sampras', and Federer's and conclude that it sucks) but it doesn't suck, by any means.

TheOverlord
01-20-2009, 03:22 PM
hasnt blake had neck surgery before or something? anything injuring the neck will pretty much not let you be able to serve or play tennis

Hot Sauce
01-20-2009, 03:38 PM
His backhand sucks?Since when? That's why he's been in the top 10 for so long right? How many people stay in the top 10 for that long with a bad backhand? His backhand is solid and it demonstrates good technique. And since when do you know more than BB about tennis? Just wait until he sees this and tells you how wrong you are.

Teaching pro vs an arrogant guy who thinks he's all that and likes putting people down. I vote teaching pro...

oh, and you can go and try copying Gasquet's backhand and see how that works out for ya'
Roddick was #1 for a while, but that doesn't mean his backhand is good.. I'm not saying Blake's backhand 'sucks' by any means, though.

TheOverlord
01-20-2009, 03:39 PM
Roddick was #1 for a while, but that doesn't mean his backhand is good..

ahahahahahaha

BeHappy
01-20-2009, 06:08 PM
I truly don't understand why people say Blake has a bad backhand, it's not the very best one hander in the world but it's up there. Watch him blast Nadal off the court with it and tell me he has a ****** backhand.

IMO his success against Nadal with it is down to his hitting th ball much higher thanks to Nadal's kicking topspin, this greater height gives him the margin for error he needs. If he would just swing from high to low a bit more...

EikelBeiter
01-20-2009, 11:41 PM
This may have been covered already, but just in case:

The clip from which that still originates is Blake returning a serve. This accounts of your gripes, including footwork, racquet position, etc....

As I said before, it is not a return of serve

Bungalo Bill
01-21-2009, 06:37 AM
I truly don't understand why people say Blake has a bad backhand, it's not the very best one hander in the world but it's up there. Watch him blast Nadal off the court with it and tell me he has a ****** backhand.

IMO his success against Nadal with it is down to his hitting th ball much higher thanks to Nadal's kicking topspin, this greater height gives him the margin for error he needs. If he would just swing from high to low a bit more...

Hey BeHappy,

Yes, Blake does have a good backhand. Is it the best in the world? Absolutely not. However, at his level, there are a lot of things we can take and learn from. Nobddy gets as high as he got in the world with a "sucky" backhand.

He had a bad rap about his backhand being poor a long time ago. However, his backhand being poor was not necessarily due to poor technique although, like any other pro, they are constantly trying to improve their technique.

Blakes woes with his backhand largely came from his disease and his vision predominately. As you know, without eyes, we can have perfect technique and not have good results.

Further, his backhand woes also was partly due to what he tried to do with his backhand which was hit it like his forehand. This meant he went for shots he shouldnt have taken. He went for too much.

In short, I am not concerned with turning everyones backhand into Blakes backhand. What I am concerned with is reviewing various players backhands for common fundamentals such as footwork, unit turn, smile or loop hitting hand patterns, hitting off the front leg, etc...

Also, the photos that M27 showed to try and salvage his image here was inappropriate. Blake's shot was one that was coming right at him and given how he switched his feet, he didnt have a lot of time.

As you know, balls coming toward you are the hardest to pickup and get ready for. The other shots were shots that the players were allowed to take a few steps and step more into the shot. This is not an apple to apple comparison and his example or "take" on the shots is misleading.

There is no need to mislead anyone here on this site. It adds no value whatsoever. James Blake is a very good player and his backhand has the fundamentals in it so that we can use it as a model to extract those fundamentals for instructional purposes.

I have shown Blake, Federer, Phillopousis, Guga, Haas, and so on. All of these players can be viewed and one does something better than the other. The point is that we review the fundamentals in the stroke so we can learn and practice. We are not looking for perfect players and I certainly do not have the resources here to do so. I get what I get from YouTube and use what I have in the best way possible.

In D Zone
01-21-2009, 07:13 AM
I don't see any issue with Blake's backhand - it really looks fundamentally sound. Blake likes to hit with a more flatter bh shot instead of the loopy topspin, hence you'll see different racquet positioning on this take back and his follow thru.
Every one including the pro's will have a shot that is weaker than the next guy. But it does not mean its bad. Blake's bh is better than the rest of the Bh players out there - why not pick on Gonzo's backhand or Fabrice (who plays an unconventional form) ?

If one is to analyzed the form of each player might as well analyze each and every ones movement. As the saying goes different strokes for different folks - as long as a player is playing competitively and has results to show is all that matters. There will only be one #1 playa out there.

Why not compare forehand strokes as well ? I am sure Blake will be top in the list as one of the best forehand in the business; eclipsing Guga, Haas, Gasquet.

Tennisguy777
01-21-2009, 07:16 AM
Wow this thread keeps on going.

Bungalo Bill
01-21-2009, 07:20 AM
http://www.kovagroup.ca/tennis/prep.jpg

The above photos is what M27 tried to get you to believe that because these players have a higher racquet head (above the shoulders) or a deeper shoulder turn that this is enough to tell everyone why Blakes backhand sucks.

However, what M27 didnt tell you was the balls these players are hitting are different enough that it affected the stances and the preparation of the stroke for the situation.

Further, we are not concerned with getting Gugas backswing. Very few people can turn their shoulders with the flexibility he has so it isnt fair for any of us to try. What we are concerned about is the fundamental especially since every player is going to do things slightly different than the other in certain areas.

Grips, racquet height in the backswing, amount of shoulder turn, how the hitting hand goes back, etc...have fundamental aspects to it but they also have style preferences to them as well.

Just because Blake doesnt take his racquet back as high as another player does not mean it is bad or poor technique. And certainly, Blakes stance on the ball he was hitting has no bearing to his balance. In fact, Blake has some of the best footwork and balance on tour.

Now, concerning M27's analysis. It is largely misleading. Here is another shot Blake is hitting with his backhand. Is the racquet hieght the same?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNVn0Q9EDn0

What else can we learn from Blakes backhand? Racquet angle to the arm?

Now, the other point he made was the left leg should be off the ground or barely touching the ground and the right leg should be planted. He further said that Federer only raises his right leg if itis a high ball.

Here is Federers hitting a ball in his strike zone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC7Hld2zBtQ&NR=1

Here is Federer hitting a ball LOWER in the strike zone with his foot (heel) still coming off the ground at impact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9az5qWcLOTk&feature=related

The point is we are not trying to find out what is DIFFERENT in each players stroke, we are trying to find out what is COMMON in a players stroke to build instruction around and to see the evidence on what we need to practice. Your style, how far you bring the racquet back, etc...will be your own and based on how well you can be consistent throughout the point. If you try Gugas huge backswing and are late, guess what? You might have to head towards Blakes more simply backswing.

Further, the other reason I think Blakes backhand is a good model for us is because a lot of us do not have world-class flexibility. Trying to imitate Gugas swing spells disaster for a lot of players especially if they begin imitating Gugas hitting hand path for the backswing. You have to remember, Guga was the King of claycourts and most of us here play on hard courts.

So once again, we are not trying to change everyone's backhand into Blake's backhand. When we use him as a model, we are trying to find out the commonalities and the fundamentals to learn from.

richjohn
01-22-2009, 06:57 AM
As far as I remember, the pictures of James were taken when he returned a serve. That means his swing has to be compact. It is not a full swing backhand.

Bungalo Bill
01-22-2009, 07:53 AM
As far as I remember, the pictures of James were taken when he returned a serve. That means his swing has to be compact. It is not a full swing backhand.

And to further point out that no matter if this was a return of serve or a ball hit directly at him, Blake will tend to have a more compact swing and the last time I checked, there is nothing wrong with that either. In fact, I would encourage more club players to use a compact swing so they can control the racquet head better, time the ball better, and hit cleanly.

Puma
01-22-2009, 08:10 AM
Where did M27 go?

I think I have a better backhand than Blake. As a matter of fact, I am sure I can beat him. I don't play pro tennis because, well, I just don't wanna! I would rather speculate here on the internet. It must be more fun. Just look at those guys on tv. They all look mad. And after some success you get your *** handed to you in front of a million people. Who wants that?






NOT!

Azzurri
01-22-2009, 08:27 AM
If you notice,, Blake's back swing isn't as full as other great backhands.. Therefore he ends up using too much of the arm and shoulders and not enough of the trunk and legs. therefore, less power and less control.

ok, we have it. Fedace agrees with you M27. You are now in agreement with Fedace...FEDACE!!!!:mad::shock:

Seriously, you have some sort of issue and that issue is you THINK you know tennis but you don't. Buffalo may be a bit gruffy, but he knows what he is talking about. Your picture slide shows nothing but subjective humor.

Where is that video??? Hey..how about this:

M27 SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Azzurri
01-22-2009, 09:06 AM
I think my backhand is probably better in some ways than Blake's. If I could have his coaching, young start in the game, match experience, and movement I could probably go pro. Unfortunately those things are a lot more difficult to get than a nice 1HBH.

Dude, post a video..PLEASE! I want to see it. You are correct, with coaching, money, god given skills, experience, and brains I too could be James Blake. Problem is I had 3 lessons from a State ranked junior, not enough money to buy sneakers other than from K-Mart, god forgot about me, I played a few junior tourneys and never got past the 3rd round and I am of low-average intelligence (118 IQ)....darn it!:mad:

Azzurri
01-22-2009, 09:12 AM
Another ridiculous statement.

I don't know why anyone would try to explain anything to Fedache. The guy puts trash bags on his racquets heads to keep the moisture from his grip getting to his gut strings. Funny thing is he mentioned in another thread that he strings weekly...he must really kill gut to have to re-string every week (he did not mention breaking strings...so:confused:).

Anyway, please don't waste your talent for the game on him...please provide your insight to people that would actually understand you.:)

W Cats
01-22-2009, 11:24 AM
Bungalo Bill

I enjoy your post and find them thoughtfully written and informative. You mentioned problems with Blake's vision - can you please elaborate especially as it concerns the technical aspects of his game. thanks

Bungalo Bill
01-22-2009, 11:28 AM
Bungalo Bill

I enjoy your post and find them thoughtfully written and informative. You mentioned problems with Blake's vision - can you please elaborate especially as it concerns the technical aspects of his game. thanks

Here you go bro. Here it is from Blake himself.

...Ask Australia's Lleyton Hewitt, Blake's opponent in the finals of the inaugural Tennis Channel Open at the Darling Memorial Tennis Center. Although he didn't make it a steady practice of attacking Blake's backhand Sunday, he found that on those occasions when he did, Blake, 26, was more than up to the defensive challenge.
He kept rallies going using a strong two-fisted backhand from the baseline.

He fought off scoring attempts by Hewitt at the net with a soft one-handed backhand.

He even won a handful of points with his backhand -- foot-riveting points down the near line or crosscourt shots to the opposing sideline that had Hewitt sprawling in vain...

Blake is on a roll, and his developing backhand has helped him mightily along the way.

"Oh, it's a lot better, no doubt ..." Hewitt said. "His backhand obviously was a weakness. It was out, pretty much, to everyone. But he's had to work on it. To his credit, it's a lot better. He can stand up and just play with it."

But first Blake had to work on it.

That conscious effort began in the summer of 2004, shortly after the death of his father, Thomas, triggered the stress-related viral infection shingles. The malady paralyzed half of Blake's face, blurred his sight and, naturally, derailed his playing career.

But Blake could see well enough to run on a tennis court. Moreover, he had to remain in some semblance of shape so he would be ready to play once he was healthy.

So, drilled by his lifelong coach, Brian Barker, the right-handed Blake spent countless hours during his recovery being run back and forth in an effort to improve his backhand.

"I couldn't do a lot of real drills where I wanted to hit the ball clean or whatever," Blake explained. "I was working on my defense. Just having my coach run me -- not a whole lot of fun -- run me from side to side and just find ways to get back into a point.

"As my eyesight got better, I was able to see the ball better and actually hit it on the run. It got me feeling pretty good about it, that I could play defense, too. I don't even want to use that as my first option, but when a guy puts you on defense and you can place it where you want to put it, it's a big plus."

As with any skill that is not innate and must be acquired, achieving that first level of success creates confidence and the ensuing confidence creates even greater success.

Full article is here:
http://www.protennisfan.com/2006/03/james_blakes_ba.html

habib
01-26-2009, 01:08 PM
Here you go bro. Here it is from Blake himself.

...Ask Australia's Lleyton Hewitt, Blake's opponent in the finals of the inaugural Tennis Channel Open at the Darling Memorial Tennis Center. Although he didn't make it a steady practice of attacking Blake's backhand Sunday, he found that on those occasions when he did, Blake, 26, was more than up to the defensive challenge.
He kept rallies going using a strong two-fisted backhand from the baseline.
Ok, sorry, stop right there... ;-)

goober
01-26-2009, 01:21 PM
^^Have you seen the Houston Finals in 08. he was playing this guy who is a relative journeyman and he was hitting 99% of the shots to Blake backhand and James just fell apart. James's backhand looked like it was 3.5 level.

see sig...

J011yroger
03-09-2013, 04:45 AM
Just reminded of this thread watching JB play Hasse yesterday.

Bump.

J

Power Player
03-09-2013, 07:25 AM
I'm a total Blakehead. One of my all time goats.

Relinquis
03-09-2013, 08:35 PM
his backhand was pretty damn good yesterday.

MarinaHighTennis
03-09-2013, 09:15 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBryaBhtVv0&feature=youtu.be
balke vs haas

BevelDevil
03-09-2013, 11:33 PM
Not pretty. But pretty good.

captainbryce
12-14-2013, 02:54 AM
Blake actually has one of the most solid and consistent one-handed backhands. The reason people claim that it's poor is because of the aesthetics. It isn't a "pretty" stroke ala Roger Federer or Richard Gasquet, but it is a highly effective stroke despite the short takeback and unorthodox style. In many cases, Blake's backhand is more effective than Federer's. This is particularly evident in his matches against Rafael Nadal.

James Blake - One Handed Backhands
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9O3ZyOa7cE

HughJars
12-14-2013, 04:42 AM
James Blake career prize money: $7,981,786

Enough said