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Rickson
01-17-2009, 10:24 PM
From MMA News:

Dan Henderson def. Rich Franklin via split decision (29-28, 27-30, 29-28)
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua def. Mark Coleman via TKO (strikes) -- Round 3, 4:36
Rousimar Palhares def. Jeremy Horn via unanimous decision (30-27, 30-27, 30-27)
Alan Belcher def. Denis Kang via submission (guillotine choke) -- Round 2, 4:36
Marcus Davis def. Chris Lytle via split decision (29-28, 28-29, 29-28)
John Hathway def. Tom Egan via TKO (strikes) -- Round 1, 4:36
Martin Kampmann def. Alexandre Barros via TKO (strikes) -- Round 2, 3:09
Eric Schafer def. Antonio Mendes via TKO (punches) -- Round 1, 3:35
Thomasz Drwal def. Ivan Serati via TKO (punches) -- Round 1, 2:02
Dennis Siver def. Nate Mohr via TKO (strikes) -- Round 3, 3:47
John Hathway def. Tom Egan via TKO (strikes) -- Round 1, 4:36
Martin Kampmann def. Alexandre Barros via TKO (strikes) -- Round 2, 3:09
Eric Schafer def. Antonio Mendes via TKO (punches) -- Round 1, 3:35
Thomasz Drwal def. Ivan Serati via TKO (punches) -- Round 1, 2:02
Dennis Siver def. Nate Mohr via TKO (strikes) -- Round 3, 3:47

35ft6
01-17-2009, 11:03 PM
Wow, Coleman isn't juicing any more apparently. Wonder what Randleman is up to.

Shogun looked pretty, uh, not sure how he looked. I saw it online and wasn't paying super close attention but he looked very sloppy and tired in the last round. It was almost like the fight was determined by who was less tired.

What happened to Denis Kang? Losing to Mousasi isn't so embarrassing but for a while I thought he was going to be a monster.

Rickson
01-17-2009, 11:29 PM
Why was the hammer fighting at 205? The LHW division has been a disaster for former heavies except for Randy.

Kobble
01-17-2009, 11:30 PM
Whoever, thought Franklin won winning all three rounds was drinking too much Irish coffee. Henderson looked sloppy if you ask me. Must be trying to make his fights exciting (head kicks and stuff).

Shogun looked pretty good in the first round, but half way through the second seemed to conk out. Don't know what people were booing about, Coleman, at best, was going to lose the match getting beaten until the bell.

ANybody think Rampage fighting Jardine is the dumbest thing you ever heard? Why would he need to beat the guy who got knocked out by the guy he just knocked out? Fun fight, yeah, but he should be fighting Evans. Maybe Wanderlei is fighting for the title?

Rickson
01-17-2009, 11:34 PM
You know damn well who deserves a title shot. It's LM.

Hot Sauce
01-18-2009, 03:33 AM
The only prediction I got wrong was the Kang/Belcher fight (but I guess the outcomes weren't that hard to pick). Kang looked very good until he got caught, and Shogun looked alright until he gassed (AFTER THE FIRST ROUND!). That is just some TERRIBLE cardio from Coleman and Shogun, but it's expected from The Hammer. I really wasn't surprised by how the Henderson/Franklin fight went, but I don't know what that 27-30 judge for Franklin was thinking.

I agree with Kobble that Rampage/Jardine at UFC 96 is just ********. I heard that it's for the #1 contention, too. In that case, I agree with Rickson by saying that Lyoto deserves a title shot (if he gets through Silva).

Rickson
01-18-2009, 07:57 AM
I was referring to Lenny Markowitz.

mcpon
01-18-2009, 01:50 PM
What kind of style is freestyle? I just heard that that's Rich Franklin's style?

35ft6
01-18-2009, 07:49 PM
^ He probably put that down because from what I've heard, unlike most other top MMA fighters, Rich Franklin doesn't have a background in one core discipline. He's not a wrestler turned MMA fighter... or BJJ guy turned MMA fighter... or Karate or Muay Thai or Judo guy turned MMA fighter. From what I understand, he had no real formal fighting or martial arts background, and started training MMA style from day 1. I guess what helped is that he's supposed to be a pretty decent athlete.

A troubling thought is that he represents the next the phase in the evolution of MMA, where kids grow up wanting to be a UFC fighter, so start right off the bat trying to develop a complete game. A future of very athletic yet identical jack of all trade fighters instead of the match ups we REALLY saw in the beginning of the UFC, styles versus styles, and still see today in the better fights.

Rich was about the most dominant UFC fighter around for a while, but notice how terribly he did against Silva and Machida, two guys who are really good at Muay Thai and Karate respectively, and are masters of a core style (of course they are both well rounded more or less but...). Of course you have to be well rounded and have no glaring weaknesses, but I think the greats will always be guys who mastered a core style during their youth and then started branching out into becoming a complete MMA fighter. These guys can do enough where they're never really vulnerable, but if they can manage to keep the fight in their comfort zone, in Machida and Silva's cases, in striking, they can dominate. I don't consider Franklin, despite his record, a great MMA fighter.

Rickson
01-18-2009, 08:51 PM
I don't consider Rich an all around fighter at all because it seems like he has a preference for boxing and I don't think he's particularly good at that either. I believe that well rounded fighters are the best fighters in the world like GSP and Frank Shamrock when he was young. GSP has a Kyokushin background, but he outwrestles former division 1 wrestlers. I hate to disagree with you, 35, but I believe you can start out learning the smorg style and become a great fighter just like Frankie Shamrock and GSP did.

35ft6
01-18-2009, 09:37 PM
^ GSP had a karate base. Frank is more like what I was talking about, and I don't really think he's a great. Perhaps close, but not really. Maybe somebody will prove me wrong but so far all the true greats I can think of were trained in and more or less mastered one discipline first, then expanded out from there.

Rickson
01-18-2009, 10:36 PM
GSP is a smorg fighter and not really kyokushin style at all. GSP wrestles with the Canadian national team, boxes with boxers, and practices BJJ at BJJ schools. That seems like a smorg fighter to me.

35ft6
01-19-2009, 10:21 AM
GSP is a smorg fighter and not really kyokushin style at all. GSP wrestles with the Canadian national team, boxes with boxers, and practices BJJ at BJJ schools. That seems like a smorg fighter to me.That sounds like an MMA fighter. All the MMA fighters do that, not just GSP. I'm talking about what kind of training they get before they decide to become MMA fighters. Like Matt Hughes, a wrestler who got into MMA, who knew nothing about submissions until he got into MMA. I'm talking about a base style, like what you see listed as being their style on Sherdog in fighter profiles. Some high schools are even offering MMA programs now, I've heard, so soon you may see a whole generation of fighters who grew up studying a bit of wrestling, a bit of BJJ, a bit of Muay Thai, and boxing. In the past, only Jeet Kune Do guys did that. I know UFC debuted in US around 1995 or so, but it's still a relatively new sport in terms of being mainstream.

Sure, there are guys fighting in it now who watched the first few UFC's and said "I want to do that," but most guys were top wrestlers or something who realized they could keep competing in the MMA world and even make money if they were good. It was more about opportunity more than them dreaming of fighting in the Octagon since age 6 the way kids dream of playing in the NFL or NBA from an early age. That's going to change. A bunch of kids are going to be growing up wanting specifically to be a UFC fighter so they'll probably start developing all the skills at an early age. But who knows if they'll truly master any. Guys like Silva or Machida wouldn't exist under those conditions, if they trained like that. Their understanding of timing, distance, and using angles can only be developed by a decade or more of focusing on striking and striking alone. I know they're both very accomplished BJJ guys, but you see a clear base to their MMA game.

Anyway. In the future, more guys will be like Franklin. But in the future, the guys who are masters of a base style will still destroy the jack of all trade types like Franklin, just as they do now.

mcpon
02-08-2009, 08:54 PM
^ He probably put that down because from what I've heard, unlike most other top MMA fighters, Rich Franklin doesn't have a background in one core discipline. He's not a wrestler turned MMA fighter... or BJJ guy turned MMA fighter... or Karate or Muay Thai or Judo guy turned MMA fighter. From what I understand, he had no real formal fighting or martial arts background, and started training MMA style from day 1. I guess what helped is that he's supposed to be a pretty decent athlete.

A troubling thought is that he represents the next the phase in the evolution of MMA, where kids grow up wanting to be a UFC fighter, so start right off the bat trying to develop a complete game. A future of very athletic yet identical jack of all trade fighters instead of the match ups we REALLY saw in the beginning of the UFC, styles versus styles, and still see today in the better fights.

Rich was about the most dominant UFC fighter around for a while, but notice how terribly he did against Silva and Machida, two guys who are really good at Muay Thai and Karate respectively, and are masters of a core style (of course they are both well rounded more or less but...). Of course you have to be well rounded and have no glaring weaknesses, but I think the greats will always be guys who mastered a core style during their youth and then started branching out into becoming a complete MMA fighter. These guys can do enough where they're never really vulnerable, but if they can manage to keep the fight in their comfort zone, in Machida and Silva's cases, in striking, they can dominate. I don't consider Franklin, despite his record, a great MMA fighter.

Thank you for replying.

Rickson
02-08-2009, 09:40 PM
Rich Franklin's style is math teacher. Do you know how difficult it is to control high school kids? Franklin probably had a better foundation than most mma fighters.