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Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 03:13 PM
Hey guys

Got another vid of my backhand for you to critique. I think I'm hitting alot better than my last video, but I'll let you be the judge. And Behappy, I hope your happy now lol

Old rally vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq0wX9S4JWk
New Backhand vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHMuwaaoiOc
Newer Vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GTnEZwWDXc&feature=channel_page (I tried keep my arm straight in this one, and sorry its kinda messy) I'll post another vid in like 2 weeks when I get everything down
NewEST vid (watch this one)L:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GM0PI57BzI

Post away!

ThA_Azn_DeViL
01-18-2009, 03:18 PM
I like it, something keeps bothering me though, I dont think your using very much shoulder pivoting, which allows you to rotate more, but definitely an improvement.

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 03:22 PM
thanks. Its been alot more consistent lately, but it still breaks down under pressure. Maybe I'm not using enough shoulder rotation, I dont know. Thats why I made this thread lol

BeHappy
01-18-2009, 03:33 PM
Couple of things

1) You are still bending your arm on the take back, keep your arm straight and relaxed like the picture in the FAQ

2)You are still taking it back way to high, I said pocket height, not chest high.

3)You are still pointing the racket head up as opposed to straight back behind you.




Now I'm aware you want to have a pretty backhand, that's a lot of people's motivation for taking up the one hander, and at first, if you follow my instruction, you are going to have a backhand that looks like Blakes, as opposed to Justine Henin's, but just get those fundamentals down first, ok? Then you can start adding everything else.



Incidentally, look at this guys backhand, Petr Korda, 10 years ago this was everybody's favorite backhand, technically it's identical to what I'm showing you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Z-MaFtHfs&fmt=18

BTW, it looks like it's a lot better than before, , I'd say you were hitting the ball better?

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 03:40 PM
alright, will do. I'll work on it, and I might even be able to post yet another vid tomorrow. I don't really care about how pretty my backhand is to be honest. I don't see anything wrong with having Blake's backhand either lol. And yeah, I'm hitting my backhand alot cleaner than before and that's made a big difference

Like I said though, I'll get to work on this ASAP. My backhand is the only thing holding my ground game back, and once I get it down I'll be a much more dangerous opponent

BeHappy
01-18-2009, 03:41 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCeXFXwUAz0&fmt=18


here's a much better video of Korda actually that first video was made by a french guy celebrating a french player, you can see how awesome it is here.

Jonny S&V
01-18-2009, 03:42 PM
It's better, but you HAVE to let the racquet head drop below the ball, if only a little. Too much safety is better then too little. :)

BeHappy
01-18-2009, 03:43 PM
can you see now why I said to practice those three positions in front of the mirror?

m27
01-18-2009, 03:45 PM
looks better than the old video
there are still problems, but you probably know that
1) takeback should be higher and further behind you. practice turning your head to the right as far as possible (without hurting yourself) and pulling your (right) shoulder in.
2) more torso turn. your back should be almost square to your opponent during your backswing.
3) you're rising far too early and its robbing you of all power. you need to understand the purpose of rising; like leaving your feet on a forehand, its not a cause, its an effect. this is why you feel off balance and unable to add power to the shot.
4) you're late most of the time. this is why your backhand feels rushed.
5) its hard to tell from the video, but it looks like you're wristing the shot. your wrist shouldnt move until after contact. this is why there is no power in your shot.
6) you need straighten your arm faster. right now, your forearm is parallel to the ground when your upper arm is perpendicular to the ground. it should be about 45 degrees.
7) you're not swinging low to high. yes, your racquet tends to go up a little after you hit the ball, but the ball doesnt care about that. your racquet head travels pretty much parallel to the ground until impact. this is why there is no topspin on your shots.

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 03:47 PM
It's better, but you HAVE to let the racquet head drop below the ball, if only a little. Too much safety is better then too little. :)

Yeah thanks. So I guess that's why I have a REALLY flat backhand then?

can you see now why I said to practice those three positions in front of the mirror?

Yeah I see why now. I'm off school tomorrow, so I can post another vid then too. Thanks for your help with everything btw, I really appreciate it. Believe me your advice isn't going to waste, I'm practicing every day for at least 2-3 hours. You will see results with my backhand, just give me some time and I'll get it

Jonny S&V
01-18-2009, 03:50 PM
Yeah thanks. So I guess that's why I have a REALLY flat backhand then?

Yeah, most all one-handers go through that stage though, so consider yourself one of the smarter ones for actually trying to make your technique better! :)

BeHappy
01-18-2009, 03:51 PM
looks better than the old video
there are still problems, but you probably know that
1) takeback should be higher and further behind you. practice turning your head to the right as far as possible (without hurting yourself) and pulling your (right) shoulder in.
2) more torso turn. your back should be almost square to your opponent during your backswing.
3) you're rising far too early and its robbing you of all power. you need to understand the purpose of rising; like leaving your feet on a forehand, its not a cause, its an effect. this is why you feel off balance and unable to add power to the shot.
4) you're late most of the time. this is why your backhand feels rushed.
5) its hard to tell from the video, but it looks like you're wristing the shot. your wrist shouldnt move until after contact. this is why there is no power in your shot.
6) you need straighten your arm faster. right now, your forearm is parallel to the ground when your upper arm is perpendicular to the ground. it should be about 45 degrees.
7) you're not swinging low to high. yes, your racquet tends to go up a little after you hit the ball, but the ball doesnt care about that. your racquet head travels pretty much parallel to the ground until impact. this is why there is no topspin on your shots.

I know you mean well, but BallinBob you should ignore this guy.

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 03:52 PM
looks better than the old video
there are still problems, but you probably know that
1) takeback should be higher and further behind you. practice turning your head to the right as far as possible (without hurting yourself)


Wouldnt it be a good idea to shorten my takeback (pocket height) for now?

BeHappy
01-18-2009, 03:54 PM
Yeah thanks. So I guess that's why I have a REALLY flat backhand then?



Yeah I see why now. I'm off school tomorrow, so I can post another vid then too. Thanks for your help with everything btw, I really appreciate it. Believe me your advice isn't going to waste, I'm practicing every day for at least 2-3 hours. You will see results with my backhand, just give me some time and I'll get it

Good. I don't want to overload you with information, but let me just say thaat the point of the backswing is to lower you hand and racket to the position I told you to assume, which is with your hand by your pocket and your racket pointing behind you. If you swing straight to the finish from their you will get topspin don't worry.

Just practice those positions in front of the mirror, then get out on the court! ;)

mikeler
01-18-2009, 03:55 PM
It is a very compact stroke. My back swing is the same whether I slice the ball or hit topspin and is definitely higher than yours. I'm not sure whether that is something you need to change though.

On the follow through, I don't think you are getting your arm up high enough. Try and get your wrist at eye level on the follow through with your arm fully extended. This will allow you to get some more topspin on the ball and should provide a little more pop on it.

TheShaun
01-18-2009, 03:55 PM
thanks for posting a vid. that takes some courage.

nice improvement. but as others have said, it looks like you're slapping the ball rather than taking a tennis swing. if that makes any sense. my backhand was very similar to yours, and when someone told me i was slapping the ball it made complete sense and i was able to picture a full swing rather than a slap. mine is still a work in progress too, i still slap when i get rushed.

keep working at it and keep posting.

m27
01-18-2009, 03:57 PM
I know you mean well, but BallinBob you should ignore this guy.

do you want to compare backhands?

and bob, do you think it would be a good idea to learn a forehand with a straight, waist-height backswing? do yourself a favor and learn a proper backhand. anyone who tells you otherwise just thinks you're too inept to learn the real thing.

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 03:57 PM
thanks guys for the advice, and yeah i'll definitley keep posting vids. This is the closest to private lessons as it gets. I'll brb, dinner..

BeHappy
01-18-2009, 03:58 PM
I can't edit my post for some reason.

Anyway, that pocket position is what Henin, Gasquet, Kuerten etc all have in common, so when you're starting off you should go straight to it, then when it has become instinctive you can (if you want) go to a slice takeback and move your racket through that position from there.

BeHappy
01-18-2009, 04:03 PM
You actually didn't reach an of the positions BallinBob, including the finish, I'm going to post the FAQ sticky post here:

The clearest, and to my knowledge most successful way of teaching the one hander imo is that of Robert Lansdorp, (coach of Sampras, davenport, sharapova, Tracy Austin and about 70 other top 100 players known for their powerful consistent groundstrokes),

As soon as you see the ball coming to your backhand, turn so you are standing sideways

put your hand to your pocket with the racket on edge, (i.e. perpendicular to the ground) low takeback to begin with, notice the fairly straight, relaxed arm:

http://i40.tinypic.com/34f1lvr.jpg





Swing straight through the ball and finish with your hand at eye level, your racket on edge (perpendicular to the ground), and with your arm extended towards the target :

http://i43.tinypic.com/qrymhj.jpg

the finish from another angle, notice the arm is fairly straight

http://i42.tinypic.com/24wvjfb.jpg


Basically swing to the finish, if you do that you should swing from low to high, and your racket face should be perpendicular when you hit the ball, as you both start and finish with the frame perpendicular to the ground/on edge, and so the ball shouldn't fly up into the air or into the bottom of the net due to an overly open or closed racket face.

Practice the start and finish position with a racket before you get on the court making sure your hand is at eye level, perpendicular racket head etc. Keep your arm fairly straight but relaxed throughout, this includes the take back.


Don't even try the high takeback till you have this down!



I'll edit in info about grips later, for now, suffice it to say that if you hit your backhand with a forehand grip, you are wasting your time.


Your takeback was chest high, with a (very!) bent arm.

Your follow through was chest high.

So you have a lot of work to do!

mental midget
01-18-2009, 04:05 PM
bob, do you take lessons? if i were you, i'd see if i could scare up 60 bucks or whatever for one hour with a pro, face to face, in the real world.

i promise you, i'm not being a jerk here, but just watching your stroke, it's obvious you're trying to assimilate a barrage of well-intentioned advice; what you need is somebody standing right next to you, who can start to give you some idea of what it FEELS like to hit it properly.

coming here for advice is great, but tennis isn't air conditioner repair, it's not easy to learn via correspondence course.

m27
01-18-2009, 04:13 PM
anyway, if you want to learn a proper backhand, look no further than this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX7CcDIkMhE

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 04:18 PM
You actually didn't reach an of the positions BallinBob, including the finish, I'm going to post the FAQ sticky post here:



Your takeback was chest high, with a (very!) bent arm

Your follow through was chest high.

So you have a lot of work to do!

Yeah I know, but that just makes me want to work even harder until I get this down.

bob, do you take lessons? if i were you, i'd see if i could scare up 60 bucks or whatever for one hour with a pro, face to face, in the real world.

i promise you, i'm not being a jerk here, but just watching your stroke, it's obvious you're trying to assimilate a barrage of well-intentioned advice; what you need is somebody standing right next to you, who can start to give you some idea of what it FEELS like to hit it properly.

coming here for advice is great, but tennis isn't air conditioner repair, it's not easy to learn via correspondence course.

I actually did take a lesson with a pro last week (around there). This was my first private lesson ever. He noticed I had alot of timing issues, so we went through my forehand,backhand, and serve and fixed the timing problems I had. He gave me a few pointers for my backhand that got me to where I am now, but really we worked on timing. I really liked him though, I'm hitting everything alot more cleanly now and its helped alot. I mean, I realize I have alot of work to do on my backhand, but I'm hitting it alot cleaner than before and it feels great.

edit- There's also this 4.5 player (hes a legit 4.5, he has results at that level), and he's been really nice to me and we hit like once a week and he helps me out. He's not a teaching pro, but he still helps me alot

BeHappy
01-18-2009, 04:21 PM
sure they do. they pass it. its a checkpoint. would you advocate someone hit a forehand by starting with the racquet 12 inches back from the contact point? I dont understand why he can't learn an actual backhand without being hobbled by training wheels. tennis is not that difficult. he's clearly got the desire to learn.

It's not a checkpoint, it's the checkpoint. It's where you begin to hit your backhand, everything before that is about getting the racket to that position. It is the point from which you swing forward and up, unlike your forehand analogy in which you mention an intermittent point in the forward swing.

There is an equivelent in the forehand swing of this position, if you go straight to it, it doesn't look pretty, but it works exactly as well. See jim courier,:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCeXFXwUAz0&fmt=18



Or Venus williams' two hander:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8tgrGMnr5g&fmt=18

Or agassi's for that matter.


Or Korda's one hander
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCeXFXwUAz0&fmt=18


Or Rod Laver (5 foot 8 inches tall with a wooden racket ffs!) Hitting the living crap out of the ball

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q13_STOUBc&fmt=18
2nd point

BeHappy
01-18-2009, 04:22 PM
Yeah I know, but that just makes me want to work even harder until I get this down. I'll have another vid up tomorrow afternoon-ish (unless something happens), and hopefully I can get the straight arm thing down. I'm going to work on one thing a day and go from there.



I actually did take a lesson with a pro last week (around there). This was my first private lesson ever. He noticed I had alot of timing issues, so we went through my forehand,backhand, and serve and fixed the timing problems I had. He gave me a few pointers for my backhand that got me to where I am now, but really we worked on timing. I really liked him though, I'm hitting everything alot more cleanly now and its helped alot. I mean, I realize I have alot of work to do on my backhand, but I'm hitting it alot cleaner than before and it feels great.

That's a great attitude. Just go in front of a mirror, get all those positions down and head to the courts, that's really all there is to it. If you head to the courts before getting the positions down you are dooming yourself to failure though!

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 04:31 PM
Behappy, printed the page off with the positions on it and going to practice now. It looks like such a simple stroke on paper, and then when you try it it's a whole different story..

BeHappy
01-18-2009, 04:34 PM
Behappy, printed the page off with the positions on it and going to practice now. It looks like such a simple stroke on paper, and then when you try it it's a whole different story..

That's great. It's just two positions you have to get down, just practice the two positions in front of the mirror, don't just look at the pictures, read the sentences above them too. it's very important. Once you have the two positions down, slowly swing straight from the first position to the second, then get out on the court and try it. Good luck!

oneguy21
01-18-2009, 04:36 PM
Take back looks pretty good, but there's something about the execution that seems awkard. If it works for you I guess it's not that big of a problem.

Are you hitting topspin? It kind of looks like your swing up but your scraping the bottom of the ball so you're imparting underspin.

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 04:37 PM
ugh, m27, I know your trying to help an all, but now Im confused. BB, where are you lol..? Behappy's advice sounds good to me, but m27's makes sense too but in a different way. I wish I knew more about this so I could judge who's right, but honestly I don't know. I think Behappy's approach isn't bad though, just get the basics down and get a consistent backhand going then add the flashy parts later.

Okay yeah Im confused lol....

edit- Behappy, please don't think I'm insulting you or anything. I just find it a little confusing that m27 has a completley different approach to learning the backhand. I don't really like m27, but he seems like he's trying to help. Maybe hes way off and hes wrong, but I dont know. I like the idea of getting the basics down though

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 04:39 PM
Take back looks pretty good, but there's something about the execution that seems awkard. If it works for you I guess it's not that big of a problem.

Are you hitting topspin? It kind of looks like your swing up but your scraping the bottom of the ball so you're imparting underspin.

I'm hitting flat. I literally have no spin on that thing, I doubt it even has like 1rpm of topspin. I'll have another vid up tomorrow, and hopefully I'll be hitting with more topspin

mikeler
01-18-2009, 04:51 PM
Look at Federer's follow through in BeHappy's post, that is what you need to do.

m27
01-18-2009, 04:52 PM
ugh, m27, I know your trying to help an all, but now Im confused. BB, where are you lol..? Behappy's advice sounds good to me, but m27's makes sense too but in a different way. I wish I knew more about this so I could judge who's right, but honestly I don't know. I think Behappy's approach isn't bad though, just get the basics down and get a consistent backhand going then add the flashy parts later.

Okay yeah Im confused lol....

backswings are not flashy. they're integral to the motion. try hitting a forehand without a backswing and you'll realize how much you're missing.

if you want step by step instructions, here they are.
at the peak of the backswing (starting point of the swing)...
turn your torso counter clockwise as far as you can without straining yourself.
turn your head clockwise until your chin is on center top of your shoulder (not touching, but directly above). it is very important that both eyes can see the ball as you watch it approach (rather than your head being turned sideways so that only your right eye can see it).
your (right) upper arm should be pointing directly at the back fence (or as far backwards as you can comfortably go), with your elbow level with your chest. your arm is bent at the elbow, about 45 degrees above straight.
your left arm is behind you, with your upper arm roughly in line with your shoulders. your left hand is holding onto the throat of the racquet.
knees bent

The_Steak
01-18-2009, 04:52 PM
Bob, you back hand looks extremely cramped. Remember to straighten that arm out. Looks like a lot of wrist action, keep that arm nice and firm.

Best thing I would recommend is that you do not listen to m27. Adding that extra loop looks "prettier" but if you are having timing issues like you say, keep it nice and easy and just a straight back backswing.

oneguy21
01-18-2009, 04:53 PM
Look at Federer's follow through in BeHappy's post, that is what you need to do.

yes, go to youtube and watch a slow mo video of Federer's backhand. Focus on his follow through and try to imitate. Sorry, but I'm too lazy to post the link.

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 04:55 PM
Bob, you back hand looks extremely cramped. Remember to straighten that arm out. Looks like a lot of wrist action, keep that arm nice and firm.

Best thing I would recommend is that you do not listen to m27. Adding that extra loop looks "prettier" but if you are having timing issues like you say, keep it nice and easy and just a straight back backswing.

ahh, ok thanks for that. Yes I have timing issues, they've gotten alot better but I still have trouble with timing. I'm going with Behappy's advice then, and I'll practice those positions.

raiden031
01-18-2009, 05:09 PM
It looks like you are staying sideways the whole time and not opening up.

I would suggest you watch www.fuzzyyellowballs.com backhand videos and then practice the technique in your house before going out on the court and hitting balls.

m27
01-18-2009, 05:10 PM
Your telling me it doesn't make sense for you to learn the basics of the 1hbh first then develop them over time? I don't think my backhand will ever be my best stroke, and I just want it to be a consistent shot (which it definitley is NOT right now). I think Behappy's advice will allow for a consistent backhand, I mean, it makes sense

What exactly is wrong with Behappy's advice? It seems to me you just don't like the reduced takeback part? I'll just start out with a reduced takeback then I'll go to a bigger one once I got the basics down.

I think you are going to develop a twitchy, pushy backhand.

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 05:15 PM
I think you are going to develop a twitchy, pushy backhand.

I guess I'm just going to have to take that risk then:D

mental midget
01-18-2009, 05:16 PM
lessons! stop the madness, seriously. you seem like you're really into it. do yourself a favor and do it right.

Jonny S&V
01-18-2009, 05:19 PM
Ok, I'm gonna clear this up once and for all...

To m27, I have actually been hitting the backhand that you describe for a long time but I changed it at my tournament this weekend to a "Kuerten-esque" backhand and my backhand's consistency, pace, and spin went up 10-fold. My coach has tried for the longest time to get me to simplify my game, especially my backhand (he leaves the forehand to me to get what gives me the best results) and now I realize he's right. You DON'T teach beginners/intermediates a shoulder high takeback, no matter how good they are...

To BeHappy, kudos for sticking to your guns, I'm not a fan of flip-floppers (*coughromneycough*).

To BallinBob, you need to work on your backhand technique but:

1. Don't try to implement everything at once.
2. Make sure that it is comfortable to you.
3. Rule #2 takes priority over rule #1

Ahh, I feel better now... :)

BeHappy
01-18-2009, 05:23 PM
Ok, I'm gonna clear this up once and for all...

To m27, I have actually been hitting the backhand that you describe for a long time but I changed it at my tournament this weekend to a "Kuerten-esque" backhand and my backhand's consistency, pace, and spin went up 10-fold. My coach has tried for the longest time to get me to simplify my game, especially my backhand (he leaves the forehand to me to get what gives me the best results) and now I realize he's right. You DON'T teach beginners/intermediates a shoulder high takeback, no matter how good they are...

To BeHappy, kudos for sticking to your guns, I'm not a fan of flip-floppers (*coughromneycough*).

To BallinBob, you need to work on your backhand technique but:

1. Don't try to implement everything at once.
2. Make sure that it is comfortable to you.
3. Rule #2 takes priority over rule #1

Ahh, I feel better now... :)

Just to reiterate, those are just the fundamentals, if he wants to go to a slice high take back after mastering them that's fine, those are just the fundamentals.

Jonny S&V
01-18-2009, 05:24 PM
Just to reiterate, those are just the fundamentals, if he wants to go to a slice high take back after mastering them that's fine, those are just the fundamentals.

Yeah, I know that, I was talking about the flat/topspin backhand.

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 05:25 PM
Just to reiterate, those are just the fundamentals, if he wants to go to a slice high take back after mastering them that's fine, those are just the fundamentals.

Hey sorry for doubting you, I just got a little confused that's all. I know what to do/how to go about improving my backhand now, and I love the simple approach you have.

BeHappy
01-18-2009, 05:25 PM
Yeah, I know that, I was talking about the flat/topspin backhand.

so am I .

The_Steak
01-18-2009, 05:30 PM
How often are you going to hit with a private teacher?

m27
01-18-2009, 05:32 PM
Ok, I'm gonna clear this up once and for all...

To m27, I have actually been hitting the backhand that you describe for a long time but I changed it at my tournament this weekend to a "Kuerten-esque" backhand and my backhand's consistency, pace, and spin went up 10-fold.

I'm confused. Kuerten had one of the highest takebacks in the game, past or present. Either I'm misunderstanding you or you're contradicting yourself.

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 05:35 PM
How often are you going to hit with a private teacher?

Not much. I have to pay for my lessons, and as a 15 year old I don't really have the money to spend 50$ on lessons very much. Im not old enough to have a job yet (although im still trying), and I get 20$ a month allowance. That's why I'm trying to make the most out of this forum. I want to get better, but I cant do it by myself so I need your guys' help.

edit- I think its funny how many posts I get when I put up threads. This thread has been up for 2 hours and Ive gotten like 60 posts lol.

RoddickAce
01-18-2009, 05:41 PM
I'm confused. Kuerten had one of the highest takebacks in the game, past or present. Either I'm misunderstanding you or you're contradicting yourself.

I'm no expert on technical stuff, but I also thought it was better to have a higher takeback too. After I started taking my racquet back higher, I got more spin and consistency. But I'm don't know...

m27
01-18-2009, 05:47 PM
His was straight back but his follow through was high, contrary to how you think the backhand should be hit.


What the hell are you talking about? Kuerten had a higher takeback than anyone. How does that in any way contradict my advice?

Jonny S&V
01-18-2009, 05:49 PM
What the hell are you talking about? Kuerten had a higher takeback than anyone. How does that in any way contradict my advice?

His racquet head dropped more than what you suggest, smart one...

m27
01-18-2009, 05:52 PM
His racquet head dropped more than what you suggest, smart one...

What the **** are you talking about? Do a google image search on his backhand. Or any video. Or anything written about his backhand. Kuerten was KNOWN for his HIGH backswing

shell
01-18-2009, 06:07 PM
Bob, I have not read through this thread. But you know I have talked to you about your backhand before. And my advice yet again is keep it simple.

I would like to see you start with feeder balls nice and slow. I would like to see you already turned sideways with your racquet back low by your knees. I would love to see you then swing through a ball with your shoulders rather than your arm.

To me, as I watch your swing, I see a very awkward swing, an unnatural one. I think the only way to make it natural is to let your shoulder move your racquet. Feel this as it happens. You MUST start low to high to start with. You are still in the beginning stages of a one hander. You must learn to swing through low to high, natural with your shoulders and arm.

This is better than the last video by far. You are making improvement!

But this shot requires fluid movement. Shoulder turn, ball in front of your front foot, then swing freely through. Until those motions are fluid and natural, you will struggle with the backhand shot.

Start with feeder balls, then progress from there. A fluid swing is alost more important than a perfect form one. Fluid through the shot.

Does this help? I don't want to bash you, as obviously you are working very hard. I just want to see a very athletic young man take advantange of his attributes. You swing very freely with your forehand, swing just as freely with the backhand. Shoulder turn, swing through the ball, follow through. If you do that you are almost there.

Jonny S&V
01-18-2009, 06:08 PM
And how does that at all contradict what I've been saying, considering that I told him to swing from below the ball in my first post? Did you even bother reading?

Whoops, missed that, my bad, and I had been with this thread from the beginning... Sorry about that...

But seriously, you don't teach a beginning tennis player a full backhand swing...

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 06:16 PM
Does this help? I don't want to bash you, as obviously you are working very hard. I just want to see a very athletic young man take advantange of his attributes. You swing very freely with your forehand, swing just as freely with the backhand. Shoulder turn, swing through the ball, follow through. If you do that you are almost there.

Yeah this definitley helped. I'm going with Behappy's advice and keeping it simple like you said. You should see my forehand now, its even better than before:) Worked on getting more body rotation and then my coach helped me with my timing and its great now.
Anyway, thanks for your help:)

m27
01-18-2009, 06:19 PM
Whoops, missed that, my bad, and I had been with this thread from the beginning... Sorry about that...
fair enough. no harm done.

But seriously, you don't teach a beginning tennis player a full backhand swing...

I disagree. I think that the difficulty of tennis strokes is vastly overestimated by most people. Think of it as a dance move; can you imagine dancers learning individual moves piece by piece, with each move taking weeks or months to learn? It would take a decades to choreograph a dance. The difficulty in tennis is not in the strokes (and certainly not for a young man who is clearly passionate about learning to play).

For the record, I think these crippled "learner" strokes are just as (if not more) sensitive to bad timing; if you are late on a stroke with a normal backswing, your racquet is at least moving forwards and you can muscle it for a little more velocity as the ball gets closer. If you are starting with the racquet head only a couple feet back from the contact point and you're late, you have almost no racquet head speed and you have to jerk the racquet a lot more to have any decent momentum at contact. The result is a jerky, inconsistent, muscled motion. For someone with timing issues, that is a pretty bad direction to go.

Jonny S&V
01-18-2009, 06:24 PM
fair enough. no harm done.



I disagree. I think that the difficulty of tennis strokes is vastly overestimated by most people. Think of it as a dance move; can you imagine dancers learning individual moves piece by piece, with each move taking weeks or months to learn? It would take a decades to choreograph a dance. The difficulty in tennis is not in the strokes (and certainly not for a young man who is clearly passionate about learning to play).

For the record, I think these crippled "learner" strokes are just as (if not more) sensitive to bad timing; if you are late on a stroke with a normal backswing, your racquet is at least moving forwards and you can muscle it for a little more velocity as the ball gets closer. If you are starting with the racquet head only a couple feet back from the contact point and you're late, you have almost no racquet head speed and you have to jerk the racquet a lot more to have any decent momentum at contact. The result is a jerky, inconsistent, muscled motion. For someone with timing issues, that is a pretty bad direction to go.

Ok, you do make SOME sense, but I think both ways should be intro'd to the pupil and he/she make the decision on which approach feels more comfortable to him. If they are coordinated enough to handle a full swing, fine, let'm swing away, but don't do that to EVERY pupil. But I think the slice should be the base of a one-handed backhand anyway, but I don't want to start an arguement over that.

Kevo
01-18-2009, 06:38 PM
Ballinbob, please don't take one person's advice and run with it. Use everyone's advice, and decide for yourself. Remember you have the video of yourself to compare with pros like Federer and others. That's a marvelous tool to have. I would have loved the ability to do that when I was in school.

Anyway, take a look at this vid of Laver (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkoPk3iy65A).

Pay attention to all the elements you want to work on. Notice the bent arm on the takeback, the high racquet position on the take back, shoulder rotation, the arm straightening into contact, and the high finish. This is a solid swing. Also make sure when you practice the motion you get it nice and fluid and you really swing at the ball. You have to get that racquet moving if it's going to work for you.

Good Luck

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 06:41 PM
thanks kevo. By the way, for a 1hbh, do you want a straight arm all the way through?? Im confused on this part.

BeHappy
01-18-2009, 06:59 PM
everything is there in the FAQ, ust do what it says to the letter and we'll see where you are in 2 weeks.

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 07:01 PM
:-?Alright will do..

Mike Cottrill
01-18-2009, 07:04 PM
Incidentally, look at this guys backhand, Petr Korda, 10 years ago this was everybody's favorite backhand, technically it's identical to what I'm showing you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Z-MaFtHfs&fmt=18



BeHappy,
If you want to show him Petrís backhand, show him something were he can see the details in high speed.
Here are some I took a few years ago:
Backhand winner return:
http://www.vimeo.com/1968432 (http://www.vimeo.com/1968432)

Backhand on the run:
http://www.vimeo.com/2877301 (http://www.vimeo.com/2877301)
(Will have to wait ~45 min for it to be viewable from time of post)
Sorry about the quality on this one.

Mansewerz
01-18-2009, 07:14 PM
It's better, but you HAVE to let the racquet head drop below the ball, if only a little. Too much safety is better then too little. :)

Ditto. It looked like you were hitting straight through or down on the ball.

Ballinbob
01-18-2009, 07:50 PM
I guess your right Kevo. I'll just take the advice I need and use what I feel is comfortable. Now that i think about it probably wouldnt do much good to post a vid tomorrow.I cant change much in a day so it would be almost pointless....

Kevo
01-18-2009, 07:58 PM
thanks kevo. By the way, for a 1hbh, do you want a straight arm all the way through?? Im confused on this part.

Well it depends on whether you mean through contact, or throughout the whole stroke.

I can't think of any pro at the moment that has a straight arm on the take back. Even the much maligned back hand of James Blake has a slight bend at the elbow on the take back. He just doesn't have quite as much as most of the others. You can look at the video of Laver I posted a link to, or any pro you like that has a 1HBH. There are plenty of videos on the Tube.

However, for the actual contact with the ball, the arm straightens during the forward swing. That is definitely something you want. The straightening is not something you should have to do consciously. If you take a good swing at the ball, and you're hitting far enough in front of your body, your arm will straighten. You won't be able to stop it.

mental midget
01-18-2009, 08:07 PM
lessons.

find a way, dude. many things wrong with current stroke, you need face to face time with a professional instructor. this is not a slam on you, it's what EVERYONE needs if they want to become a player who competes at the higher levels, which it seems like you do. message board just isn't a suitable place to learn stroke fundamentals.

TonLars
01-18-2009, 09:46 PM
Have you tried or learned the two-handed backhand? I think you might be better off trying to develop that. Anyways, good luck and keep at it

Kaptain Karl
01-18-2009, 09:47 PM
<Mod Mode> Bunches of trolling / name-calling posts have been zapped. Behave! </Mod Mode>

_____________


Ballinbob - I just slogged through this whole thread. (Ugh!) This is my opinion; take it or leave it.

You are getting a lot of well-meaning but BAD advice on this thread. Too many people are "helping" you with your stroke, when your biggest problem is poor footwork and preparation. As long as your footwork stinks, it won't matter how much you work on your stroke; it still won't satisfy you.



These two guys have been quizzing you in the right area....lessons! stop the madness, seriously. you seem like you're really into it. do yourself a favor and do it right.

How often are you going to hit with a private teacher?

lessons.

find a way, dude. many things wrong with current stroke, you need face to face time with a professional instructor. this is not a slam on you, it's what EVERYONE needs if they want to become a player who competes at the higher levels, which it seems like you do. message board just isn't a suitable place to learn stroke fundamentals.

You are hindering your development by trying to work on the wrong things first. (Because people here are being nice and telling you what you want to hear ... stuff about your stroke.)

Frankly, your movement and footwork -- the foundation of all tennis -- stinks. Stop listening to people who are "tickling your ears." Save your money. Pay for a package of at least six lessons from a Teaching Pro. (Not from a "friend".) Make sure you practice what you've been told to work on in a 3:1 ratio. Practice what your TP tells you in three individual drilling sessions before your next lesson with him/her.

What about your local high school team's Coach? Are you trying to make the team? Are you going to the Clinics / Camps run by the Coach? (This is usually less expensive than private, or semi-private, lessons.)

Good luck....

- KK

Kaptain Karl
01-18-2009, 09:57 PM
I forgot ...

Watch the vid of Federer's BH and look at his excellent footwork. THAT is what you need to work on first.

- KK

adams_1
01-18-2009, 10:14 PM
I have to agree with the Kaptain. There's a wealth of information here - some good, some terrible - but there is no substitute for real lessons with a real teaching pro.

Rickson
01-19-2009, 12:22 AM
Are you Indian, bob?

Jonny S&V
01-19-2009, 12:29 AM
Are you Indian, bob?

He explained it in one of his other threads, but I can't seem to find it. He's not indian, but he's middle-eastern descent, if memory serves...

Ballinbob
01-19-2009, 07:54 AM
Have you tried or learned the two-handed backhand? I think you might be better off trying to develop that. Anyways, good luck and keep at it

I have, but not for very long. I guess I really am that bad at the one handed backhand.... I wasn't going to, but maybe another vid today would actually be a good idea. I'll vid my 1hbh again using behapp's advice in the sticky, and I'll vid my 2hbh. My 2hbh is pretty bad, but maybe i can make more out of it than my 1hbh



You are getting a lot of well-meaning but BAD advice on this thread. Too many people are "helping" you with your stroke, when your biggest problem is poor footwork and preparation. As long as your footwork stinks, it won't matter how much you work on your stroke; it still won't satisfy you.

You are hindering your development by trying to work on the wrong things first. (Because people here are being nice and telling you what you want to hear ... stuff about your stroke.)

Frankly, your movement and footwork -- the foundation of all tennis -- stinks. Stop listening to people who are "tickling your ears." Save your money. Pay for a package of at least six lessons from a Teaching Pro. (Not from a "friend".) Make sure you practice what you've been told to work on in a 3:1 ratio. Practice what your TP tells you in three individual drilling sessions before your next lesson with him/her.

What about your local high school team's Coach? Are you trying to make the team? Are you going to the Clinics / Camps run by the Coach? (This is usually less expensive than private, or semi-private, lessons.)

Good luck....

- KK

Karl, thanks for your honesty. My sister was just hand feeding me balls in this vid, and I was lazy and didn't move as well I should have. That's no excuse though, I can definitley move/run, and I should have payed more attention to footwork. As for lessons, I have to pay for all my lessons (50$ an hr), and as a 15 year old with no job that's alot of money for me. I've only had 1 lesson with a pro and that's it.I took my lesson at the Gates Tennis Center near the Cherry Creek Mall, and they charged the cheapest out of any other coaches (50$). My highschool coach hates me because I'm ethnic (my dad and I almost got him fired for it) and he doesn't hold clinics anyway. I really was planning to use you guys to help me out with my stroke. My backhand has always been the shot that never "clicked" and I need help with it. It has gotten better with everyone's advice though, I think we can all agree on that. I'm pretty much 100% self taught. I got to where I am purely off these forums. I read one of BB's serve posts about the kinetic chain, and then went to the courts and made sure to do what BB said, and now my serve is one of my best strokes:) You guys all are really helpful

Once again thanks for you help Karl

Are you Indian, bob?
You seem to ask about my ethnicity alot lol (which is fine), so I'll just give you the whole story. My parents are from Lebanon, and my dad moved to Canada at 17 years old during the civil war in Lebanon. He had $200 dollars and nothing else, and knew no english whatsoever. He got accepted into a college though, and pulled off a PHd in geography. He then went back to Lebanon, married my mom, then moved back to Canada again with my mom this time. I was born in Canada. We then moved to Colorado because my dad found a job at the Colorado School of Mines (best ranked university in Colorado), and we've lived there ever since. My family is Muslim and all of us speak fluent Arabic. I don't follow Islam though, and my parents hate me for it lol, but thats for another thread. I don't have an accent when i speak english either.

alright, satisfied now lol?

Rickson
01-19-2009, 08:18 AM
That's because we are so diverse, bob!

Ballinbob
01-19-2009, 08:24 AM
^^ Lol im not going to bother asking

but okay:-?

Ballinbob
01-19-2009, 09:03 AM
Alright guys, good news. I convinced both my sisters to come with me to the courts, so with 3 people I can vid alot of stuff.

I'll make a good long vid showing both forehands and backhands. I'll be back soon, going to the courts now

wilsonplayer
01-19-2009, 09:10 AM
it looks very tight to me. try to relax more and hold the racquet more loosely.

mordecai
01-19-2009, 09:22 AM
You're flailing at the ball pretty much. You step in with your front foot which is the first step but your takeback is too late and too small, and you do not pronate your fore-arm enough before you swing forward. Check your grip online and make sure you're using the right eastern backhand grip. Remember that your hitting arm has to be fully extended and behind your left hip before you can pull the racquet forward and finish by lifting your whole arm up to head level.

Rickson
01-19-2009, 09:27 AM
It looks like you're guiding too much.

Ballinbob
01-19-2009, 10:01 AM
What do you mean by that Rickson? You mean I'm getting too much help?Anyway, just came back from the courts and my sisters did a horrible job of filming. I got some forehands and the rest were backhands, but out of a 2min vid there's only like 3 backhands you can actually see what's going on. Its too close up and you only see parts of the swing. You guys want me to post it anyway or just wait 2 weeks and post a real vid....?

Rickson
01-19-2009, 10:09 AM
It's like what wilson said. Loosen up a little and smack that ball instead of guiding the ball.

BeHappy
01-19-2009, 10:26 AM
Post vid, I need to see if you're doing it right. There's no point in you spending 2 weeks practicing the wrong technique.

Did you hit the ball any better?

Ballinbob
01-19-2009, 10:31 AM
i'm going to go hit with my friend right now, so it'll be up sometime this afternoon (around the time the last vid was up). It was a really messy vid...my sister only had like 5-10 mins to help me vid so we rushed it. I tried concentrating on keeping a straight arm this time and it seemed to help. I mean they went over the net and deep. I think there's a couple backhands where you can see me pretty clearly though. Sorry its such a bad vid...if I dont have alot of homework tomorrow then I'll make a better one

Anyway, should be up this afternoon

BullDogTennis
01-19-2009, 12:55 PM
i didnt read everyones responses, so if its the same. oops.


its good to not take your 1hbh to far back, but you could a bit more. also it looks like your to stiff when your "taking it back" relax a little! also close your stace a bit, i did notice when i went down the pictures someone posted, look at all their feet, there all OVERLY closed, you should be able to see ALOT of your back if im your opponent. you want to have a lot of shoulder rotation, but you dont want to "spin out" which i dont think you do, but its easy to get where you spin out when your trying to increase the shoulder rotation.

edit: i just read above, and apparently someone said to try to keep a straight arm, which may help with consistency at first, but its gonna be a push.

Ballinbob
01-19-2009, 01:18 PM
alright guys back from the courts. I burned the vid onto a DVD and its finalizing as we speak. Vid should be up roughly in an hour (depends how nice youtube is to me lol)

edit-uploading on the Tube right now. Should be done any time now I think:)

Jaxon
01-19-2009, 01:42 PM
Nice backhand but I can tell that a lot of them go in the net or barely over. It's because instead of swiping it up, your just going straight through. (you can tell because of your follow through) Also at point of contact, don't keep a firm wrist and straight arm. There is one more major flaw which is your take back. Your back should seem like your facing the opponent. Watch Federer for example.
Cheers

Ballinbob
01-19-2009, 02:25 PM
new vid is up guys. Did I straighten out my arm good...? I'll make another vid in like 2 weeks so you guys can actually see my progress. This one was just rushed. Also, is it bad to have a flat backhand? I mean, when I hit my backhand in it lands deep and its pretty hard. It doesn't go in as much as I'd like, but its actually not a bad shot when it goes in...

BeHappy
01-19-2009, 02:26 PM
sorry ballinbob, but you didn't reach any of the positions, yuor takeback was still chest high when it should have been pocket high, and your finish was still chest high when it should have been at eye height, the only difference was your arm was straight. You need to get in front of a mirror and get those positions down or else you are wasting your time. It's a very good thing you posted that vid or you woud have spent two weeks doing that.

BeHappy
01-19-2009, 02:27 PM
even so, I'm sure having a straight arm improved it somewhat, the problem is because you aren't reaching those positions it is completely flat.

Ballinbob
01-19-2009, 02:34 PM
Well at least I got the straight arm thing okay. I'll work on the pocket high takeback tomorrow I guess. Just takin it one step at a time. I don't know what I ever did to be this bad at backhands.. Everyone of my friends can hit a descent backhand except me..

Whatever I'll just keep at it and try and post vids whenever I can

Thanks for your help Behappy

Element54
01-19-2009, 02:37 PM
Firstly I have a lot of respect for you putting up your videos!! It takes a lot of courage and humility to face criticism - but its for the better since your improving.

Forgive me since I haven't read most of the other posts - so if I probably will be repeating comments. IMO the key to improving your shot is racket-head-speed.

Use more upper body rotation, don't force the shoulder turn (the natural follow through to the backhand) if you keep the form and technique right, it will occur by it self.

Rather then "pushing" the ball in your videos, have a go at just RIPPING the ball (not flat, but a topspin shot). This will get you to understand how the racket head moves with your maximum capacity, and teaches you about the low-high topspin on the ball. Gradually decrease the power, but try to maintain the topspin and form/technique on the shot.

herosol
01-19-2009, 04:42 PM
Waddup BALLINNNNNN' lols.

Anyway, definitely alot of improvements on your backhand from the old to new for sure. Haha ignore any animosity-creating posts if there are any, they just suckkas.

I've played the 1hbh much longer then i have played my 2hbh so far, and theres just a few things are apparent. I'm no pro, but i hope this helps you out like you did with my video.

1. Your takeback does NOT lack height or prettyness or whatever. Your takeback needs to have a loop. It does not have to be excessive, but is basically a mentality that helps your 1hbh overall. Momentum comes with a loop, and soon you will develop more elasticity in your swing.

2. Your rackethead should "rise-up" from the bottom of the ball up. Right now you wind-shield wipe across the exact middle of the ball creating less-spin and what i would predict less control. Perhaps you are trying to hit flatter, but i would recommend to trying to master more spin capabilities early on. This will definitely be assisted with an integration of a loop takeback.

keep fightin bro.

The_Steak
01-19-2009, 04:53 PM
Going to straight across.

Either back up or take a step close so you can get a low to high motion.

BullDogTennis
01-19-2009, 05:49 PM
next video, if someone is filming for you, have them stand where they were, then behind you, then behind the person feeding balls. that way we can see everything.

ronalditop
01-19-2009, 05:54 PM
your problem is that you move your wrist too much. You have to maintain you wrist firm during impact, you can loose it after the impact, like federer does, or keep it firm, like kolsreiber. if you do this you're gonna improve a lot.

Ballinbob
01-19-2009, 05:54 PM
thanks for the comments everyone. I'll keep working on it and i'll keep posting vids so you can see my progress. I have a feeling I'll have a much better backhand once I get some topspin going. Bulldog,thing is when I vid from the back you cant see the ball....But I can get other angles if you want.

Karl, you got my email right?

ronalditop
01-19-2009, 05:56 PM
also i just saw you dont swing from down to up, you swing kinda in a straight line. To produce spin and control you have to swing from down to up and keep your wrist firm. thats all.

Ballinbob
01-19-2009, 06:00 PM
^^ Yeah I have an incredibly flat backhand. I think I'm getting close though, I know what I need to do. Just need to brush up more and I think that will solve alot of my problems. I'm simplifying my stroke and using Behappy's advice in the sticky and so far so good. Having a straight arm helped, and I'm sure working on my follow through will help. I think I'm going to keep my takeback the same, as I'm hitting the ball cleanly everytime and I like the power I can generate with my backhand. I just don't see the need/good that reducing my takeback will do

BeHappy
01-19-2009, 06:19 PM
It's not about reducing or power or timing, it's about getting your racket to the correct point underneath the ball, that's why your backswing has to be pocket height, that's why your backhand is flat. Go pocket height first with the racket face pointing behind you instead of up towards the sky first, then when you have that down you can go to a slice high backswing like the one you have now, moving through the pocket high point from there.


It is essential that you use the pocket high take back if you're going to elarn how to hit a real backhand.

BeHappy
01-19-2009, 06:20 PM
If you 'brush up' with the swing you have now, you will just pull of the ball.

Where the hell is BB btw?

Ballinbob
01-19-2009, 06:25 PM
Alright lol, pocket high takeback it is. Can I still have an effective backhand with a pocket high takeback? If I like that takeback can I just stick with it and be okay? If I have to go to that takeback I'll probably just stick with it. I don't like changing stuff back and forth. And what do you mean "pull of the ball"?

As for BB, I don't know where he is. He never responds to my threads for some reason. Everyone responds except him, I don't know whats up. Maybe hes just busy though

BeHappy
01-19-2009, 06:28 PM
Blake and Korda have effective backhands with it, and they stuck with it, you can if you like.

Just swing from the pocket high position to the finish, how hard is that?

Ballinbob
01-19-2009, 06:32 PM
When did I say it was hard? I just don't like changing things, then after a month change back, that all. I know nothing about this so I ask alot of questions, that's part of my nature...I talk alot

BeHappy
01-19-2009, 06:36 PM
well you posted two consecutive videos where you didn't use either positions which led me to the conclusion that you were having trouble with that.

Ballinbob
01-19-2009, 06:39 PM
well I guess it is hard a little because I'm not used to it.

My god I have no idea what im talking about.... I'll just shut up and do what the sticky says. Just forget it, I'll work on it this week and if the weather's good next weekend I'll have a vid up

So yeah thread is over until next week..

Jaxon
01-19-2009, 07:04 PM
ROFL nice try on your last vid but you've just made the stroke more awkward. What your doing is going straight across (or something like that). Try brushing.
These are great videos for learning the one handed backhand:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=cCRkuzAK7w4&feature=channel
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfNMYVkPF0&feature=related

Ballinbob
01-20-2009, 04:19 PM
Haha, good news you guys!!! Went to the courts and hit probably 600-700 backhands (just tossing easy balls to myself), and I'm finally getting some topspin. I literally was thinking "Straight arm,pocket high,finish above chest" and it worked! All my balls were clearing the net by a good 6 inches more than normal, and all my balls were landing deep. I felt the brushing up and the way I'm hitting it now is allowing for topspin. I love the pocket high takeback too, it solved all my timing problems. I trained myself today to hit loopier backhands cross court as my rally backhand and flattened it out a little more for my down the line shots. My backhand feels so simple now and I'm just not missing balls with it because I can time it so easily. If I can hit my backhand like this in a match, then I think my backhand will replace my serve as my best shot.

Behappy, just wait till this weekend, you will be proud lol. I really did improve and it feels great. I'll keep practicing everyday and will post a vid this weekend. Once you give me the heads up on my backhand (I think you will, but I'll let you decide), I'll start working on my slice and other stuff. I really felt like my serve+forehand improved with everyones advice, and definitley my backhand too (most improvement is with my backhand for sure). So I'll start posting vids of all my strokes and with your guy's help I'll be able to build one heck of a game!

Thanks everyone!!!!:):)

LeeD
01-20-2009, 04:37 PM
Yeah, like I was working on a new semi western backhand grip for topspin AND high slices lately. And it works pretty well with a simpler, lower, almost straight take back prep.
Too bad it's my sucky forehand that's the real problem.

Ballinbob
01-20-2009, 04:47 PM
Haha, I'm still using an eastern bh grip for my backhand, just starting under the ball and really focusing on brushing up and making clean contact. I have had such good results with simplifying my backhand that I think I'm going to rework all my strokes and simplify them. Of course I will need to work on hitting my backhand like this in matches, but at least I'll have the technique down. This weekend another vid will be up and hopefully you guys can give me the heads up that my backhand is good.

Once you guys verify that, we'll start working on my slice:)

LeeD
01-20-2009, 05:46 PM
Sometimes I wish I were young again....
I"m 59.
I've been working on a semi western backhand now for about 2 months, and I still revert to the old ways once a match tightens up and the points really count.
Old way is a semi eastern forehandy side of continental hard slice for reliability and low bouncing backspin.
It took me over 6 years of playing 100 days a year to totally switch to a onehander.

BeHappy
01-20-2009, 06:03 PM
Yeah, it wasn't so much that you were simplifying your backhand as it was that you were hitting the two key points, the pocket high position and the eye high(not just chest high!) finish. Although I'd say your backhand has hugely improved now, I'd be surprised if it couldn't be improved much more.

BTW, I knew this would work, that's why I was getting irritated when guys were giving you idiotic (but well meaning) advice. You see how simple the backhand motion is now?

Anyway, glad to hear you can hit a backhand now.

BeHappy
01-20-2009, 06:05 PM
And DO hit your topspin backhand in matches, give your self as much margin for error as you need to be confident you won't miss.

Ballinbob
01-20-2009, 06:12 PM
Yeah, i felt really good today. It was freezing outside today when i was practicing but I still had a smile on my face the whole time. It felt like one of those math problems that take forever to get then once you get it you just feel relieved and start thinking why you didn't get this earlier.

I made a point of reaching all the positions today and was reciting them in my head for every backhand, and it definitley worked. It was amazing though for me, I was hitting my backhands with some net clearance for once. I'll start hitting real backhands in matches instead of my slice. Cant wait to go out and play this weekend

Will have a vid up this weekend for sure, no excuses no nothing.

You'll be proud lol, just wait

The_Steak
01-20-2009, 06:26 PM
Try to get a camera angle behind you so we can see where the ball is going.

BeHappy
01-20-2009, 06:33 PM
Try to get a camera angle behind you so we can see where the ball is going.

X2


Also what those positions do is make it impossible for you to not hit with topspin. Once you get the racket to the pocket position, you can rip it as fast as you can to the hand at eye height finish position, and the ratio of topspin to mph will remain the same, so the even though the ball is moving faster it will dip down just as much as before. It gives you the technique to really go after your shots. To many players will inadvertently completely flatten a stroke out in their effort to hit the ball hard, when what they need to do is swing as fast as they can using the same stroke.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing your video.

Gee Willikers Batman!
01-20-2009, 06:41 PM
I hope you learn how to hit it well and effectively.

As you could probably remember, I used to have a 1H'er but I eventually switched to a 2H'er because a lot of the 4.5+ players would crush it.

Good luck.

Ballinbob
01-20-2009, 06:49 PM
Try to get a camera angle behind you so we can see where the ball is going.

I've tried before, but it always turned out dark. I'll experiment though and I'll find a way to make it work. Do you want me to do a side view and then a back view? I can do both easily I think. Backview will take a bit of tinkering, but I'll get it if you guys want.

I hope you learn how to hit it well and effectively.

As you could probably remember, I used to have a 1H'er but I eventually switched to a 2H'er because a lot of the 4.5+ players would crush it.

Good luck.

Yeah thanks. Behappy's advice was great, and its been improving really fast. It all seemed to click today and i was finally hitting it with topspin. Hopefully with this simple takeback/swing it won't break down, but I guess everything breaks down when you play against better players. I'll keep at it though.

Good luck with your game too btw

The_Steak
01-20-2009, 06:57 PM
Try every single angle.

From you back, front and sides.

Ballinbob
01-20-2009, 07:04 PM
^^ Alright, I'll try and get a couple angles then. I can do that. And backview shouldn't be too hard actually, I think I know where to put the camera to get a clear picture.

I'll have it up fri-sat-sun then. Whichever day has the best weather

TennisNinja
01-20-2009, 07:23 PM
I would recommend setting up a lower base so you can "load and explode" off the ground.

futuratennis
01-20-2009, 11:53 PM
looks alot better, still needs alot of work though

mikeler
01-21-2009, 12:49 PM
Bob,

The follow through is looking much better. The newest video quality was really good, so I think I found one thing I'd like to see more of. Hopefully BeHappy agrees with me since he has been your coach for this thread. Check out how low Gasquet's racket head is in the picture below. To compare, you take your racket back with the racket almost perfectly parallel to the ground. If you can get your racket head lower on the takeback, you are going to generate even more topspin than you already do. It's the old low to high creates topspin tip.

http://z.about.com/d/tennis/1/0/K/F/richard-gasquet-backhand-05.jpg

Ballinbob
01-21-2009, 01:30 PM
Thanks Mike. I decided I'm going to make another vid today as the weather is beautiful. I got the brushing up motion down now, and i'm finally hitting with topspin. I'll get my normal side view and then I'll film like 5 balls from the back so you can see how high they're going. My camera doesn't pick up where the balls are going too good with the backview, but I'll try. I'll be tossing easy balls to myself (nobody to hit with today), but at least you'll see my technique.

So expect a vid up tonight

BeHappy
01-21-2009, 01:38 PM
A better angle than behind by far would be on the other side of the court, so the ball is incoming. That and the normal side angle will be good.

Ballinbob
01-21-2009, 01:40 PM
A better angle than behind by far would be on the other side of the court, so the ball is incoming. That and the normal side angle will be good.

Alright I can do that easy. Enough talk, be back in a couple hours. Need to make this vid and practice serves.

Bungalo Bill
01-21-2009, 02:10 PM
alright, will do. I'll work on it, and I might even be able to post yet another vid tomorrow. I don't really care about how pretty my backhand is to be honest. I don't see anything wrong with having Blake's backhand either lol. And yeah, I'm hitting my backhand alot cleaner than before and that's made a big difference

Like I said though, I'll get to work on this ASAP. My backhand is the only thing holding my ground game back, and once I get it down I'll be a much more dangerous opponent


Hmmmm...have I looked at this before?

Here are a few things I saw:

1. Very timid approach and use of your legs in the shot.

2. Weak shoulder turn which caused your rotation to open up too far before making contact.

3. The bent arm in the take back is not too bad, many pros have a bent arm in the takeback, However, as the arm comes forward it should extend (straighten) as it gets near contact.

4. It seems you try to stay on your toes in your ready position but once you begin your unit turn, your heels immediately hit the ground and stay with the ground throughout the rest of your stroke.

BeHappy
01-21-2009, 03:07 PM
Hmmmm...have I looked at this before?

Here are a few things I saw:

1. Very timid approach and use of your legs in the shot.

2. Weak shoulder turn which caused your rotation to open up too far before making contact.

3. The bent arm in the take back is not too bad, many pros have a bent arm in the takeback, However, as the arm comes forward it should extend (straighten) as it gets near contact.

4. It seems you try to stay on your toes in your ready position but once you begin your unit turn, your heels immediately hit the ground and stay with the ground throughout the rest of your stroke.

I was just passing through...

It wasn't so much the bend in the elbow on the takeback that was the problem, as much as it was that he usually didn't straighten it out, which led to/was caused by an inconsistent contact point. Keeping the arm straight rom this position forces you to hit the ball in a consistent contact point. He also just didn't understand the concept of swinging low to high to hit through the ball with topspin, that is why it is necessary to get him to get the basic fundamental positions down. Once his arm has the muscle memory of hitting the ball correctly established, a higher, more natural and disguised take back can be used. The pocket takeback forces people to just rotate their shoulders (usually), as their is little to no movement of the arms required, and, to reach the crucial apex of the swing, the delivery of the racket to that point being what the purpose of the backswing actually is.

So after he has this down for about 2-3 weeks the higher takeback can taught through the 'smile pattern, the forward swing and smile pattern can be taught in terms of passing through the same pocket high position from the higher take back. In this way, like Dave Smith's techniques, the central backhand is first taught, then more advanced techniques added without contradicting the original instruction and with the minimum of confusion or effort on behalf of the students. I don't want anyone thinking that those fundamentals are the complete backhand I'm teaching lol

Good to see you back btw, haven't seen you in a couple of weeks?

Ballinbob
01-21-2009, 03:30 PM
got the vid footage. Its burning onto a dvd right now, then I'll upload it. Backhand looks completley different now, in a good way though. I got a good side view, and then a short clip on the net clearance of my shots.

Should have them up soon

edit-not sure why, but the vid from the back (showing net clearance) disappeared somehow. I had it though, it was on there.... Oh well, sideview one is uploading now. Sorry though, not sure what happened

Ballinbob
01-21-2009, 04:12 PM
new vid is up!!!! Can you say improvement??? Backhand looks a lot better now:)

new vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GM0PI57BzI

LeeD
01-21-2009, 04:23 PM
Unfortunately, judgement be reserved until you show vids of hitting with partners who actually hit a ball at normal speed, various heights, and various depths.
Ainna T ball here, we need to see that new backhand under fire.
I"m a pessimist, and still say your forehand and serve look good.

Ballinbob
01-21-2009, 04:31 PM
well of course my serve and forehand look better, they're my best shots. But just technique wise I'm doing better right? Forget matchplay, just technique. I mean it feels alot less awkward and I'm getting good topspin on it. I'll start playing matches with this backhand and I'll adjust. Only problem I can see is that now that i'll be hitting topspin backhands, I may have to take balls earlier. I usually play 5-7 ft behind the baseline and hit Nadal like forehands and slice all my backhands. The ball will bounce too high if I stay back that far..

I like the challenge of taking it earlier though, I'll work on it

BeHappy
01-21-2009, 04:37 PM
Well, it's start, the pocket high take back is forcing you to hit from low to high to some degree, but your finish is still chest high most of the time, I want to see your hand eye high. Also, where is the opposite side of the court angle? You could be hitting them all out for all I know l

BeHappy
01-21-2009, 04:46 PM
Also, your arm is really really bent, and with the pocket high takeback it needs to be fairly straight and relaxed. I know you're naturally straightenng out in time for the ball, it's just that it's messing up the shape of your forward swing, causing you to hit much more horizontally and therefore flatter than you would if you had a straight arm. A lot of the time you got to the pocket high position and then bent your arm all the way up to your chest.

I want you to hit the two positions of the FAQ like a robot to start with, ok?

Ballinbob
01-21-2009, 04:48 PM
Lol I just suck don't I... I guess I'll just have to hit like 5 million more backhands and maybe I'll get it. I'll work on the follow through and see what happens. And I hit most of them in, most of the ones I missed I netted though.

As for the other angle, I have no idea what happened. My guess is that I recorded over it, but I dunno:-?

Thanks for your help, but it looks like I'm a slow learner. I think I just need to practice more and I'll get it.

edit-and Ill work on the straight arm

BeHappy
01-21-2009, 04:50 PM
No, you don't just need to practice more, you need to hit the ball correctly.

~I'm going to post stills from your video and show you what the problems are.

Ballinbob
01-21-2009, 05:02 PM
wow thanks, that would be great! I really want to get this down, and am willing to do pretty much anything to do it. I just cant compete at higher levels with no backhand, and I definitley want to get better and do well in tournaments ect. Out of all the shots in tennis, this is by far the hardest for me. I don't think I've struggled so much ever to learn a shot...

BeHappy
01-21-2009, 05:09 PM
ok, I'll post it tomorrow.

LeeD
01-21-2009, 05:16 PM
Yeah, there's something "disconnected" or not flowing with your backhand stroke. Maybe a hesitation here, a too long followthru there, a too enhanced rising of the torso, I don't know.
I do know, it's better to copy the onehanders of the pros, and they use shorter followthrus, less leg bend and lift, and hit thru more smoothly or flowingly.
I can't pinpoint it, but the stroke looks contrived and too ....."artistic" ???

Rickson
01-21-2009, 05:17 PM
Is Colorado really that warm right now?

Ballinbob
01-21-2009, 05:23 PM
LeeD, I think I'm just going to have to accept that my backhand sucks. Even if I do start hitting it properly, i don't think it will ever fully catch up with the rest of my game. I'm still going to work hard everyday to get, but I'm just saying.. I dont give up when it comes to tennis, but man this stroke feels so weird.

Rickson, the weathers been really nice here. This whole week has been 60-65 degrees. It supposed to snow Friday though lol, but thats colorado weather for you. If you don't like the weather, wait a day.

LeeD
01-21-2009, 05:30 PM
I don't think your backhand is gonna suck. It might be behind in development compared to your forehand, but every stroke is different and the learning process takes different timing and time.
I know you are young and restless, but it concerns me that soooo many younger players embrace the concept of the deep knee bend and lift as they hit the ball. I don't see the top pros do that often. And never when they're late in a match and tired. Quads is the first muscle to go in a tight, long match. Why make it go away faster by using it "unnecessarily". ??
I think a better leg drive is like a golfers, or any of the top current pros. No lift, but drive towards the target A LITTLE.

Ballinbob
01-21-2009, 05:41 PM
Haha I know what you mean, but I never get tiered in a match. I've said it a million times before that I can run. My style of play is big serve, retreat 5-7ft behind the baseline and chase every ball down and run my opponent down. I've started hitting my forehand Nadal style with a ton of topspin. And my backhand slice feels natural, that shot I can hit.

My backhand still isnt good, but man its much better than a month ago

adams_1
01-21-2009, 05:42 PM
LeeD, I think I'm just going to have to accept that my backhand sucks. Even if I do start hitting it properly, i don't think it will ever fully catch up with the rest of my game. I'm still going to work hard everyday to get, but I'm just saying.. I dont give up when it comes to tennis, but man this stroke feels so weird.

If you "accept that it sucks," then it's going to be harder for you to improve on it. Work at it and it will improve. And if you can get a lesson or two along the way, do it. Can't beat live advice.

I don't know if anyone has put this idea up for discussion yet, but have you ever tried a two hander? It may be worth a try, though if it doesn't fit with your idea of the game you want then I understand that completely. I wish I could hit a decent one hander myself, such a pretty thing when done correctly.

Ballinbob
01-21-2009, 05:56 PM
Adams, I'm pretty sure Behappy would kill me if I said I'm switching to a 2hbh lol. Besides, I'm clearly improving (slowly, but still), and I'll get there. I won't give up on it.

And I'm pretty much playing Nadal style now. I looked over my game, and I found that the one thing that nobody has at my level (and higher levels) is my fitness/speed. By standing 5-7ft behind the baseline and playing a heavy topspin game, I'm able to outlast/outrun my opponents. My coach and I worked on getting more body rotation into my forehand and its become one heck of a shot. I modeled it after Nadal a bit with the extreme windshield wiper motion. I have a pretty consistent backhand slice too. Anyway, this has been working out very well for me so far and I like it

Right now what's holding me back is my backhand return of serve and my topspin backhand. And my mental toughness, but otherwise I'm doing pretty well

BeHappy
01-21-2009, 06:00 PM
I won't 'kill you' for switching to a 2hb if you can hit a two handed backhand, some people have natural aptitude for one stroke rather than another. I don't know where you got that idea.

The_Steak
01-21-2009, 06:10 PM
I won't 'kill you' for switching to a 2hb if you can hit a two handed backhand, some people have natural aptitude for one stroke rather than another. I don't know where you got that idea.

Well, seeing as you invested about 20-25 posts instructing bob as well as getting into arguments with other people..... I hope you get he idea.

Gee Willikers Batman!
01-21-2009, 07:25 PM
Playing an opponent is different than drop-feeding.


I don't mind you hitting with yourself since you might not have access to a lot of friends, but don't just practice drop-feeding. It's a whole 'nother monster playing people. (Especially if they are a whole level above you)

Keep that in mind.


But you probably only knew that, posting just in case.

Ballinbob
01-21-2009, 07:34 PM
Playing an opponent is different than drop-feeding.


I don't mind you hitting with yourself since you might not have access to a lot of friends, but don't just practice drop-feeding. It's a whole 'nother monster playing people. (Especially if they are a whole level above you)

Keep that in mind.


But you probably only knew that, posting just in case.

I know that, but I like drop feeding because it allows you to really focus on the stroke/mechanics. I slice all my backhands right now because that's what I'm comfortable doing in a match. I'm just not ready to hit a topspin backhand in a match yet.

The vast majority of my friends don't play tennis, and that's why I don't have many hitting partners. I also have live 15-20 mins from my highschool, and my parents don't always have the time to drive me back and forth. I always try and practice with someone if I can though.

Chrystal
01-22-2009, 07:58 AM
I know that, but I like drop feeding because it allows you to really focus on the stroke/mechanics. I slice all my backhands right now because that's what I'm comfortable doing in a match. I'm just not ready to hit a topspin backhand in a match yet.

The vast majority of my friends don't play tennis, and that's why I don't have many hitting partners. I also have live 15-20 mins from my highschool, and my parents don't always have the time to drive me back and forth. I always try and practice with someone if I can though.

Maybe you should try the PracticeHit - as recommended by forum contributor Dave Smith?

http://www.practicehit.com/

I've used it with kids and it can help to really nail technique.

LeeD
01-22-2009, 08:32 AM
Whoa dey nellie ......
Waht, you live a freakin "15-20" minutes from a practice court ???:confused:
When I was you age, I'd walk ..........
Nah, all my tennis, nearest court I played was about 20 blocks away, and that's only my first season.
Second season, in search of better hitting partners, I'd bike 4 miles across town easy 6 days a week.
End of second season, I'd bike uphill that far to GoldenGatePark courts, where there were 23 courts and lots of C, B, and A level competition.
And when I'd practice with the CCSF Div111 team, it's 5 miles away all uphill. And 5 miles through down would take about 35 minutes driving! But I biked.
Now for 10 miles to downtown for weekend practice, I'd take the bus and it took one hour and forty five minutes if there was no traffic.
Get a bike, get mobile.

Bungalo Bill
01-22-2009, 01:22 PM
Hey guys

Got another vid of my backhand for you to critique. I think I'm hitting alot better than my last video, but I'll let you be the judge. And Behappy, I hope your happy now lol

Old rally vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq0wX9S4JWk
New Backhand vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHMuwaaoiOc
Newer Vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GTnEZwWDXc&feature=channel_page (I tried keep my arm straight in this one, and sorry its kinda messy) I'll post another vid in like 2 weeks when I get everything down
NewEST vid (watch this one)L:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GM0PI57BzI

Post away!

You need to fix the following:

1. Your footwork has a lot of heel touching on the ground.

2. Your shoulder turn is not enough. You need to rotate at the waist bringing your front shoulder under your chin.

3. Your shoulder turn should take the racquet back not your arm which is the way you do it. The racquet turns back with the shoulders and the butt cap stays in sync with your belly button as it rotates back. It is nearly one unit working together to bring the racquet back.

4. When you are nearly complete with your shoulder turn, you take the racquet back a bit higher and a bit further back with the smile pattern. This sets up the drop of your hitting hand to go below contact (using knees that are bent) and your forward swing.

5. As the racquet begins to drop, you beging transferring your weight forward and you make contact with the ball as your weight comes over your front leg.

6. Racquet and arm makes a long "L" through the ball and you keep going up. Do not shorten this and pull the racquet off to the side too soon. You are not good enough to do this yet. Go through and extend over your front leg. This is why I like to use Blake as an example for club players. He does this very well. Call it what you will, I call it racquet head control.

7. When you begin your uncoiling, the non-dominant arm either remains by your side or goes back toward the back fence. This pauses your rotation and gets your body angle facing the 45 degree angle to allow your arm to pass through, into contact, and out to followthrough.

Right now, your stroke is off because of your feet/heels are too much on the ground.

It is off because you lack a good shoulder turn.

It is off because you take the racquet back with your arm because you dont have a good shoulder turn. This means your arm is controlling the racquet head throughout the motion rather than your body.

Use your shoulder rotation to uncoil and to time your forward swing into the ball). If you are just navigating your forward swing from a backswing that was governed by your arm, this makes it difficult to judge when you should bring the racquet forward to contact on time.

Shoulder turn, feet, and the other things are hurting your onehander.

LeeD
01-22-2009, 01:55 PM
Good stuff, BBill. His follow thru goes too far to his right, so he must not have much of a shoulder turn. I guess :shock:
For GeeWillikers... nope, it's for real. I'm a surfer. I live 3 blocks from OceanBeachSanFrancisco. Nearest court with some pickup action is easily 20+ blocks away, and that's only 3.5 or lowest C levels.
After one year, I needed more competition. Since I heard some Pro women lived right near DupontCourts, I decided to check it out. CeciMartinez lived next door to the courts....easily 4 miles from my house. The Louie clan lived 10 blocks from there, but more important, several B players, now considered 4.5's, lived within 4 blocks of there.
End of second year, I needed more competition. So GGPark, easy 4 miles away, I'd be a fixture there 5 days a week (weekdays) from 9-5. Even I get hungry and have to go home.
Weekends by then, CCSF to practice with the mens team.
What, you never heard of travelling for recreation? As a surfer, I've driven from SanFrancisco to ElSalvador for 3 week surf trips.

Bungalo Bill
01-22-2009, 02:36 PM
Good stuff, BBill. His follow thru goes too far to his right, so he must not have much of a shoulder turn. I guess :shock:

Yes, you are seeing it. The lack of a shoulder turn promotes using his arm too much in the swing (backswing and forward swing) because something has to move the racquet back and forth.

The lack of his shoulder turn causes his body plane to open too soon which promotes coming across his body too much. He needs to go through the ball and extend to break this habit for now.

Onehanders need to take the racquet back with their unit turn. The racquet predominantely goes back WITH the shoulder turn mainly.

Without that shoulder turn, bad habits are being developed that need to compensate for the lack of a shoulder turn. The shoulder turn does much more than just getting the racquet back. It allows the racquet to go back in a controlled fashion which allows the brain, the contact point, the incoming ball, and the racquet head to work togther to time the incoming ball better.

Onehanders need to place less emphasis in hitting the ball with their arms and more emphasis in bringing the racquet to the ball through the timing of their weight transfer. Think simple. Body is what hits the ball. Arm brings the racquet to the ball. Both need to sync and time the contact with the ball.

Watch...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RORTYH588cE

Also, he needs to eliminate his wrist release right now. Because of his lack of shoulder turn he is slapping the ball and not driving through it. The wrist until he masters the onehander needs to be fixed and he needs to keep the long "L" in his stroke for a longer time. Right now, he has no shape in his arm, it just moves around because he prematurely releases his wrist to have a "whippiness" in his stroke.

Ballinbob
01-22-2009, 03:14 PM
thanks a ton BB, and behappy. I went yesterday and talked to my parents, and after a LONG talk and an email from a coach, I finally convinced them to pay for lessons. I don't think I'm improving at the rate I should be, and a pro would really help me.

I appreciate your advice though, and I'll keep it in mind. Hopefully I'll see some better results with someone coaching me 1o1

Jaxon
01-22-2009, 03:21 PM
Nice! You improved your backhand but again, there are still far too many problems. First, just dropping the ball and hitting it is a completely different feel as compared to when hitting it when your opponent hits it to you. Second, you have too much arm movement when you swing. It’s just a sweeping swing that goes up (your still hitting through). The best way to fix this is to do what a teaching pro suggested for me when I was converting to the one hand backhand. He told me to hit the ball as if I’m hitting topspin lobs with the backhand and literally swing the racquet up. Though it was exaggerated movement, I got used to the feel and hit much better backhands. It also helps if the wrist and forearm is completely stiff. If you want I’ll put up some videos of hitting backhands once the weather improves.
Good Luck,

Kevo
01-22-2009, 06:16 PM
Hi Ballinbob,

I think you're doing great. You are only a few minor changes away from a very nice backhand. (Of course you will still need to practice it a lot to get confident with it and bring it up to the level of the rest of your game, but that's the fun part isn't it.)

1. You're pulling the next ball out of your pocket before you've finished you're recovery. That left hand should be moving backward to stop your shoulder rotation to allow that energy to transfer into the arm. So, you want to spread both arms apart as you swing.

2. You should lift your swinging arm upward from the shoulder on the forward swing, don't just swing across your body in an upward direction. Actively use the shoulder to lift the racquet up. This helps with adding topspin and also allows the racquet to stay on the path of the ball longer.

3. Quit lifting the back leg. Let that happen naturally as a result of the swing. Right now it looks like you are actively lifting that leg. With a 1HBH, you will frequently have situations that require hitting the shot on the run, and you will need to work the upper body out of sync with your legs. In other words, the leg lifting is not a necessity, it's a nicety when you have time, and can help with recovery as well, if you swing the leg around on the follow through.

retroceso
01-22-2009, 10:18 PM
keep that back foot and knee down!

Bungalo Bill
01-23-2009, 02:41 PM
keep that back foot and knee down!

Why? What is it that is making you say this?

Here is a return of serve (it looks like), however, it is the beginning of the point I will try to make.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/113210630_15bc2a8c8b.jpg?v=0

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:sCnna7CpQ3KliM:http://lh5.ggpht.com/_jW7bRLo6_Uc/R_VicGyPwWI/AAAAAAAAAIg/4dxlV22ChYE/P1030170.JPG

Ballinbob
01-23-2009, 02:49 PM
thanks kevo, will keep that in mind. I've been practicing the positions in the sticky and my backhand has gotten better. Because I play so far back behind the baseline I have to hit alot of high balls, and that's forced me to exaggerate the WW motion. So in a weeks time, I went from a backhand with like 1rpm of spin to a backhand that is really spinny. What a transition lol

The thing I noticed though is that I still my arm sometimes bends more than it should, but otherwise I think I'm doing okay. I worked on getting the shoulder turn down and taking the racket back instead of my whole arm. Still not perfect, but they have improved. Like BB said, I think my footwork is hindering my ability on this stroke. I use pure speed to get to the ball and not really good footwork.

I played my semi- pusher friend yesterday and I can consistently hit my backhand against him because the balls he lets me groove into his shots and have a rhythm. Then when I played the #1 singles at my school (friend of mine), I found myself making alot more errors with my backhand because he hits with pace. I ended up slicing my backhand the rest of the match

That's what I noticed though, when I have time to set up I can actually hit my backhand pretty well. I guess I need to play more matches against guys who pressure me and get used to it

I'll keep working on my backhand though. Slowly but surly its been improving, and I'm proud of myself for getting this far. I still have a long ways to go though haha:)

edit-I've gotten really good at analyzing my technique now because of you guys too lol. So thanks for that

Slicendicer
01-23-2009, 03:16 PM
Hey guys

Got another vid of my backhand for you to critique. I think I'm hitting alot better than my last video, but I'll let you be the judge. And Behappy, I hope your happy now lol

Old rally vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq0wX9S4JWk
New Backhand vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHMuwaaoiOc
Newer Vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GTnEZwWDXc&feature=channel_page (I tried keep my arm straight in this one, and sorry its kinda messy) I'll post another vid in like 2 weeks when I get everything down
NewEST vid (watch this one)L:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GM0PI57BzI

Post away!

There's 2 styles of backhand for the 1 handed player... the rotating socket swing where you swipe across the ball and PULL the ball across the seams or the lift and raise whereas to PUSH and drive the ball by swinging bottom to top pushing the ball as to reverse the spin forward.

Its difficult to really tell what your doing, where the ball is landing, and how well you strike a ball moving toward you. Keep practicing though, you'll figure out what works best for your game.

futuratennis
01-23-2009, 06:02 PM
Haha I know what you mean, but I never get tiered in a match. I've said it a million times before that I can run. My style of play is big serve, retreat 5-7ft behind the baseline and chase every ball down and run my opponent down. I've started hitting my forehand Nadal style with a ton of topspin. And my backhand slice feels natural, that shot I can hit.

My backhand still isnt good, but man its much better than a month ago

if you are truly playing like nadal, your wrist will be stuffed soon, i wont be suprised if nadal gets a wrist injury and has to take a year off, putting alot of topspin on every ball isnt good, its very "wristy" and can cause injury, its better to have a variety and hit top spin shots sometimes, but not always

Mansewerz
01-23-2009, 06:18 PM
Holy crap, what's the temperature like in Colorado? You're wearing shorts in frickin January!

mikeler
01-23-2009, 06:29 PM
Bob,

Glad you are going to be able to take some lessons. My parents were able to afford 1 private lesson a week for 4 years when I was in high school so I am very lucky that my technique is sound. I still did not think your take back was low enough in your new video, but your coach will get all that straightened out for you. Enjoy those hour lessons, the time really flies.

Ambivalent
01-23-2009, 06:39 PM
You shouldnt put balls so close to you at the baseline. That's dangerous.

Ballinbob
01-23-2009, 06:50 PM
if you are truly playing like nadal, your wrist will be stuffed soon, i wont be suprised if nadal gets a wrist injury and has to take a year off, putting alot of topspin on every ball isnt good, its very "wristy" and can cause injury, its better to have a variety and hit top spin shots sometimes, but not always

I have a mild western forehand grip and I exaggerate the wind shield wiper motion. I try to not wrist my shots as much as possible, but I have to sometimes to flick it over the net. I didn't know this could cause wrist injuries though. My wrist does often hurt at the end of a match but it goes away by the next morning.


Holy crap, what's the temperature like in Colorado? You're wearing shorts in frickin January!

Temp was in the 60s all this week, but its snowing today. Was an unusual week, its not this warm ever at this time of year. Im not complaining though lol:)

Bob,

Glad you are going to be able to take some lessons. My parents were able to afford 1 private lesson a week for 4 years when I was in high school so I am very lucky that my technique is sound. I still did not think your take back was low enough in your new video, but your coach will get all that straightened out for you. Enjoy those hour lessons, the time really flies.

Yeah I know. It took alot of arguing on my part but it all payed off in the end. We plan on getting a lesson every 2-3 weeks or so, that was the best I could get. It's better than nothing though. I'm going with the same pro as last time, I really liked him.

Plus I got you guys you know, you all have helped alot. I'll keep posting vids here for advice, and hopefully with lessons+your guys' help I'll become a much better player.:)

You shouldnt put balls so close to you at the baseline. That's dangerous.

What can I say, I live a high risk life:twisted:

mikeler
01-23-2009, 07:45 PM
Lessons are expensive. Make sure you thank your parents for them. They will appreciate it :)

PS I almost never use the edit button, but this new laptop is kicking my ars with its crazy mouse!

Jackie T. Stephens
01-23-2009, 08:19 PM
Make contact more early on your backhand..

The_Steak
01-23-2009, 08:46 PM
Bob, Do not flick your wrist when you hit!!!!! No, I am not worried about injury. When you use your wrist, it creates unnecessary spin. Trust me, I use a full western. Keep your stroke long and fluid, never ever wrist a shot. When you keep the stroke long with no wrist flick, the ball stays down and you can hit the ball incredibly hard.

About 2-3 weeks ago, I always thought that using the wrist for added spin was good, but you cannot produce an aggressive shot. The ball spins a ton and will land in the service box, so your opponent can easily kill it for a winner.

I don't give a damn about injury, but do not use the wrist whatever you do.

Note* I am talking about when it is forced, not when there is a natural is the natural wrist snap when you hit hard.

Jackie T. Stephens
01-23-2009, 08:48 PM
Bob, Do not flick your wrist when you hit!!!!! No, I am not worried about injury. When you use your wrist, it creates unnecessary spin. Trust me, I use a full western. Keep your stroke long and fluid, never ever wrist a shot. When you keep the stroke long with no wrist flick, the ball stays down and you can hit the ball incredibly hard.

About 2-3 weeks ago, I always thought that using the wrist for added spin was good, but you cannot produce an aggressive shot. The ball spins a ton and will land in the service box, so your opponent can easily kill it for a winner.

I don't give a damn about injury, but do not use the wrist whatever you do.

Note* I am talking about when it is forced, not when there is a natural is the natural wrist snap when you hit hard.

I actually see wristy shots all the time, especially with a full western.

The_Steak
01-23-2009, 08:50 PM
When it is forced? Or the natural wrist snap?

Ballinbob
01-24-2009, 04:06 PM
Hey guys

I had a 1.5 hour lesson today at the price of one today from the pro who gave me one last time. We worked on my backhand the WHOLE time too. He saw I was really trying to learn it so he gave me an extra half hour.

He pretty much told me the exact same thing that was in the sticky, except he said I could have as big a takeback I wanted as long as I was hitting the ball correctly.

He told me:
-Stay low and keep the whole racket under the ball (he kept repeating this the whole lesson, apparently this was my biggest problem)
-He suggested to open my stance a little bit b/c I had too closed of a stance
-Keep my left foot down at all times
-Keep my left shoulder down and let my right shoulder do all the work

Mainly it was staying low that he emphasized. I don't know why I was having so much trouble with it. Every single ball I hit he said "stay low" so it got stuck in my head. It worked though. He was patient with me and after the lesson I got it. He also smoothed out my stroke so it doesn't look so forced anymore.

I played my pusher friend after and I used my topspin backhand and I was hitting it well when I set up for it. I still am having timing problems and footwork problems. I also tend to hit it incorrectly when I'm under pressure.However, when I have time to think about what I'm doing, I hit the ball correctly.

That's pretty much what I noticed. At the end of the lesson when he was feeding me easy balls, I was hitting every one correctly and he told me I was good to go. Under pressure though I revert to my old ways. My backhand is a great shot now when I have time to set it up. I got lucky today and hit a couple flat backhands that went in for winners too lol. I know the correct technique now and just need to work on be able to hit the ball correctly under pressure/match circumstance.

Anyway, thanks Behappy and others for your advice. My coach told me exactly what you were telling me, its just that I needed the 1on1 help.Karl, if you want to delete this thread go ahead, I got what I wanted out of it

The_Steak
01-24-2009, 04:09 PM
Don't delete it.... Other people might want to read for advice on their backhands.

Admins, rename to advice to one hand back handers.

Ballinbob
01-24-2009, 04:25 PM
steak's right. I acted too soon, don't delete it yet

I'm probably not the only one with this problem. Give me a day or two and I'll go through this whole thread and take out the good advice tips, then maybe we can sticky it. There's a ton of info in this thread that would really help everyone out.

I'll work on that ASAP

am22fcw
01-25-2009, 07:20 AM
You shouldnt put balls so close to you at the baseline. That's dangerous.

yes that is very dangerous. last thursday i was playing with my neighbor who i normally play with 3-5 times per week wether its singles or doubles. anyway there was a ball on the outter doubles line on the side of the court. i hit a shot down the line and he went after it and he stepped right on top of the ball. he ended up severly spraigning his ankle and had to go to the E.R. I haven't played since then but i will assure you that every ball will be off the court when we hit!