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View Full Version : Conuntry club/club coaches are just too easy on kids...


tennisguyak
01-19-2009, 03:40 PM
I took lessons/clinics for almost 3 years at my local country club and I saw very little improvements in my game for that time. Then as of September, I have been taking 2 1.5 hour lessons every week from a player from the local college and I won my first tournament, won consolation in two others, and made the final in the fourth. Besides my improvement, the biggest change I felt was the way my coach now approached each lesson. He didn't try and show me new gimics or be nice and polite to me during a lesson. But instead he made me work my *** off weather I liked it or not. He didn't come up with some crazy drills to help my footwork, but he ran me until I began moving like I should.

But he went back home for the holidays and I took a lesson at another club not too long ago and I almost wanted to tell the coach to stop telling me good job when I knew my shots and movement sucked. Or when we rallied and he saw I was having some trouble with a shot, he just wouldn't hit it to that side for a while. And this lesson cost me twice as much as with my regular coach. My coach has told me about how hard they worked him when he played at some academies in the Czech Republic and South Carolina so I know he knows how to work.

But the moral of this story is...Many of these $60/$70 an hour coaches aren't worth $5 simply because they spend too much time trying to be "politically correct" and treat you nicely and tell you good try even you screwed something up so bad you could cry. And I think this might just be what is hurting American tennis as a whole.

Anybody else feel this way?

dennis10is
01-19-2009, 04:01 PM
I'm glad you figured this out and are beginning to be able to tell the difference.

fuzz nation
01-19-2009, 06:05 PM
Almost an apples-and-oranges difference between the two teaching/coaching situations you're talking about as I see it. I personally don't like the idea of running a program or clinic where I need to teach a lot of players at once - I feel like I'm doing everyone a little disservice in that setting because I can only preach a general theme instead of digging into individual issues and making real progress with a player one on one. Beginners can really thrive in that group setting, but they definitely need to find a real taskmaster if they want to go farther in a hurry.

It's also the responsibility of a player to seek that more intense coaching situation if that player wants to really get after it. Some tennis teachers have to create a fun and inclusive program for several age groups at their club so that everyone will want to get in on it. That's a significantly different undertaking compared with a coach that's particularly good at getting kids developed for college level competition, etc.

One of the shortcomings in developing talent in American tennis that I'm aware of is the big shortcut toward success that lots of coaches have taken when training kids. Too many young sluggers have no more than the "surf n' turf" game of a big serve and a big forehand with no extra dimension to their skill set. The coaches produce some quick success by teaching a power game, but then later on, these kids eventually go up against players who have a "plan b". They can hit with some power yet also change pace and transition to net well. Serious coaches have been sounding the alarm on this shortcut for a while and now that I do some high school coaching, I'm a lot more aware of this imbalance among the better players I see.

There's a sort of necessary spectrum of tennis teachers/coaches out there and different ones have their individual agendas. Some don't feel any responsibility toward the general health of American tennis; they simply want to run a business and make a living. The shortcut that I mentioned is one way for some of them to improve their reputations. Some also need to make a priority of giving the people what they want like you described. The growth of the general tennis culture depends a lot on these folks and the programs they sustain. Out of that culture comes the smaller number of players who will go farther in the sport and they need the tougher coaches that can bring more to the table.

NickC
01-19-2009, 06:15 PM
Almost an apples-and-oranges difference between the two teaching/coaching situations you're talking about as I see it. I personally don't like the idea of running a program or clinic where I need to teach a lot of players at once - I feel like I'm doing everyone a little disservice in that setting because I can only preach a general theme instead of digging into individual issues and making real progress with a player one on one. Beginners can really thrive in that group setting, but they definitely need to find a real taskmaster if they want to go farther in a hurry.

It's also the responsibility of a player to seek that more intense coaching situation if that player wants to really get after it. Some tennis teachers have to create a fun and inclusive program for several age groups at their club so that everyone will want to get in on it. That's a significantly different undertaking compared with a coach that's particularly good at getting kids developed for college level competition, etc.

One of the shortcomings in developing talent in American tennis that I'm aware of is the big shortcut toward success that lots of coaches have taken when training kids. Too many young sluggers have no more than the "surf n' turf" game of a big serve and a big forehand with no extra dimension to their skill set. The coaches produce some quick success by teaching a power game, but then later on, these kids eventually go up against players who have a "plan b". They can hit with some power yet also change pace and transition to net well. Serious coaches have been sounding the alarm on this shortcut for a while and now that I do some high school coaching, I'm a lot more aware of this imbalance among the better players I see.

There's a sort of necessary spectrum of tennis teachers/coaches out there and different ones have their individual agendas. Some don't feel any responsibility toward the general health of American tennis; they simply want to run a business and make a living. The shortcut that I mentioned is one way for some of them to improve their reputations. Some also need to make a priority of giving the people what they want like you described. The growth of the general tennis culture depends a lot on these folks and the programs they sustain. Out of that culture comes the smaller number of players who will go farther in the sport and they need the tougher coaches that can bring more to the table.


Out of the three coaches I work with at my club over the summer, I get such a beating in terms of them telling me my game sucks, that I've almost quit tennis. One played DI, one was #1 in West Africa as a junior, and one coaches DI right now. They all tell me just how bad I am, and tell me what I'm doing wrong after every shot. And you know what? I like that. I don't want an ***-kisser for a coach, I want someone who will criticize my each and every move, so I can learn from that.

tennisguyak
01-19-2009, 06:46 PM
Almost an apples-and-oranges difference between the two teaching/coaching situations you're talking about as I see it. I personally don't like the idea of running a program or clinic where I need to teach a lot of players at once - I feel like I'm doing everyone a little disservice in that setting because I can only preach a general theme instead of digging into individual issues and making real progress with a player one on one. Beginners can really thrive in that group setting, but they definitely need to find a real taskmaster if they want to go farther in a hurry.

It's also the responsibility of a player to seek that more intense coaching situation if that player wants to really get after it. Some tennis teachers have to create a fun and inclusive program for several age groups at their club so that everyone will want to get in on it. That's a significantly different undertaking compared with a coach that's particularly good at getting kids developed for college level competition, etc.

One of the shortcomings in developing talent in American tennis that I'm aware of is the big shortcut toward success that lots of coaches have taken when training kids. Too many young sluggers have no more than the "surf n' turf" game of a big serve and a big forehand with no extra dimension to their skill set. The coaches produce some quick success by teaching a power game, but then later on, these kids eventually go up against players who have a "plan b". They can hit with some power yet also change pace and transition to net well. Serious coaches have been sounding the alarm on this shortcut for a while and now that I do some high school coaching, I'm a lot more aware of this imbalance among the better players I see.

There's a sort of necessary spectrum of tennis teachers/coaches out there and different ones have their individual agendas. Some don't feel any responsibility toward the general health of American tennis; they simply want to run a business and make a living. The shortcut that I mentioned is one way for some of them to improve their reputations. Some also need to make a priority of giving the people what they want like you described. The growth of the general tennis culture depends a lot on these folks and the programs they sustain. Out of that culture comes the smaller number of players who will go farther in the sport and they need the tougher coaches that can bring more to the table.

I see what you mean by the one dimensional game and it shows with even the top American proffesionals (Roddick, Querry, Blake, Isner). The top guys in the sport are ones with all around solid games. And thats the same for almost every sport, the most athletic, widest skilled athletes usually have the most success.

And what I was getting at with the original post was that the guy I work with from the college team who does tell me strait how bad I'm playing is way better and I think cares much more about my success than the ones at the clubs who just wanna be nice and take my money.

Out of the three coaches I work with at my club over the summer, I get such a beating in terms of them telling me my game sucks, that I've almost quit tennis. One played DI, one was #1 in West Africa as a junior, and one coaches DI right now. They all tell me just how bad I am, and tell me what I'm doing wrong after every shot. And you know what? I like that. I don't want an ***-kisser for a coach, I want someone who will criticize my each and every move, so I can learn from that.

Thats what I'm saying. Too many kids from an early age are being told "Good Job!" or "Good Try!" or "Nice effort, you'll get it next time!". Look at all the different sports programs that try to avoid keeping score so nobody feels bad. And then these kids get a coach that's just in it for the money and will say anything so the kid thinks they're getting better and the parents keep paying. Both me and a friend of mine who take lessons from this guy at the college have improved a ton lately and right now I'm in contention for a number 1 seed on my HS team with two other guys who started playing and taking constant lessons from the country club years before I started even trying to play.

rubberduckies
01-19-2009, 07:17 PM
It's great to be in college where you can take a group class with a DI coach for $20 a semester.

Tim Tennis
01-20-2009, 05:45 AM
He didn't try and show me new gimics or be nice and polite to me during a lesson. But instead he made me work my *** off weather I liked it or not. He didn't come up with some crazy drills to help my footwork, but he ran me until I began moving like I should.

But the moral of this story is...Many of these $60/$70 an hour coaches aren't worth $5 simply because they spend too much time trying to be "politically correct" and treat you nicely and tell you good try even you screwed something up so bad you could cry. And I think this might just be what is hurting American tennis as a whole.

Anybody else feel this way?

Obviously you are an ideal student. Maybe the pro did not know how serious you are about your game and improving. You need to make it very clear as to exactly want you want out of the lesson. Let him know you "want to work your a_ _ off and expect corrections, tough love motivation. Let him know you are not there to hit and giggle.

I would think most teaching pros would love to have a student with your motivation and willingness to work.

Best regards,

Ed
Tennis Geometrics

phoenicks
01-20-2009, 08:07 AM
problem is there's very few motivated and passionate guys in tennis like us do, and tennis is really a difficult sports, we muz noe that there's still a lot of ppl got stuck in 3.0 level, pushing and bunting their strokes, or hitting with less than solid technique, and most people are really not prepared to put in the hardwork to correct their technique and reach a higher level.

therefore, generally, coach has become something like a cheerleader, cheering you on after every strokes even though you still have the same bad habit and hitting groundstrokes with less than solid technique. Furthermore, there are some people in the club didn;t really play any sports prior to playing tennis, hence they are in a sense limited in their physical abilities to perform fine motor skills sports like tennis. So, coaches can't be really too demanding on them and work their *** off.

Moreover, Coaches also risk putting their job in the line by being too demanding on the ppl in the club. Sometimes, even though u want to train them very hard, the nature of the job in club most of the time really need to to please everyone coming to your lesson.

phoenicks
01-20-2009, 08:09 AM
Oh, btw, Kids nowadays are generally quite pampered and spoilt, if you are too strict on them, you really risk turning them off ( except the passionate and motivated few ). And if you turn them off, your coaching job in the club won't be safe anymore.

fuzz nation
01-20-2009, 10:03 AM
Oh, btw, Kids nowadays are generally quite pampered and spoilt, if you are too strict on them, you really risk turning them off ( except the passionate and motivated few ). And if you turn them off, your coaching job in the club won't be safe anymore.

Exactamundo...

The coach/pro is a lot more behind the eight-ball at a club where he/she needs to meet the expectations of the members as opposed to a guru who is approached by a young hopeful looking to be hammered into a stronger player.

Cool topic here...

tennis_balla
01-20-2009, 10:12 AM
Ahh the old "nice shot", I hear it all too often when I see lessons at clubs. You gotta tell your coach what you want/expect out of your lessons otherwise they'll put you in the same cookie cutter mold like most of their students. You're the one paying for it right, so let him know if he doesn't or can't do it then try someone else. Nothing wrong with that. Find someone you click with, not all coaches coach the same way.

raiden031
01-20-2009, 11:34 AM
In my adult league, there is no correlation between # of lessons taken and the quality of the player. I constantly see teaching pros giving people positive feedback as they are hitting with poor mechanics. I think in most cases teaching pros' hands are tied. They are teaching the sport to players who enjoy the game, but are not serious about their game enough to want to play at their highest potential.

When we're talking about recreational players, you can't just be 100% honest with someone and constantly tell them every lesson that they are doing it wrong. You have to reward progress even if their stroke is only 10% correct. Otherwise you will lose most of your players due to frustration.

This is different than someone in training for serious competition where you need to rip them a new one until they get it right. If someone wants to train seriously, they should tell their teaching pro up-front otherwise they will not get the best feedback.

fuzz nation
01-20-2009, 12:29 PM
Something that occurred to me with this deal - I did the certification with the USPTA last year and one thing that was specifically addressed in the material was how to direct positive reinforcement. When in the middle of drilling, it was pointed out that we should give verbal feedback to highlight what we're actually working on. Instead of just saying "nice shot", we were encouraged to reinforce the nuts and bolts of that lesson. That might mean saying things like "good weight transfer", "way to go out after the ball", "better follow through", etc. The thinking there is to let a student know immediately when you see them effectively execute a positive change, since "good job" is pretty vague.

I was rather impressed with the organization's approach to delivering an effective lesson. They seem committed to teaching their candidates to identify the margins of the skills of their students, then working on improvements that they can recognize. Even in a teaching situation that's more recreational with a little heavier dose of fun, there's still a premium placed on helping students to understand some better habits and work toward them.

BU-Tennis
01-20-2009, 01:25 PM
weather

B

Whether

But i do agree. Its ok to be lenient on newer players because they are just learning to develop hand eye coordination, how to hit the ball, and the such. But after the basics have been learned the only way to improve is to force yourself to try newer, harder things.

Bungalo Bill
01-20-2009, 01:29 PM
I took lessons/clinics for almost 3 years at my local country club and I saw very little improvements in my game for that time. Then as of September, I have been taking 2 1.5 hour lessons every week from a player from the local college and I won my first tournament, won consolation in two others, and made the final in the fourth. Besides my improvement, the biggest change I felt was the way my coach now approached each lesson. He didn't try and show me new gimics or be nice and polite to me during a lesson. But instead he made me work my *** off weather I liked it or not. He didn't come up with some crazy drills to help my footwork, but he ran me until I began moving like I should.

But he went back home for the holidays and I took a lesson at another club not too long ago and I almost wanted to tell the coach to stop telling me good job when I knew my shots and movement sucked. Or when we rallied and he saw I was having some trouble with a shot, he just wouldn't hit it to that side for a while. And this lesson cost me twice as much as with my regular coach. My coach has told me about how hard they worked him when he played at some academies in the Czech Republic and South Carolina so I know he knows how to work.

But the moral of this story is...Many of these $60/$70 an hour coaches aren't worth $5 simply because they spend too much time trying to be "politically correct" and treat you nicely and tell you good try even you screwed something up so bad you could cry. And I think this might just be what is hurting American tennis as a whole.

Anybody else feel this way?

Yeah, I do. However, it was hard to make money around these "politically" correct coaches because many people "liked" them.

If you had a choice to run your butt off with me, gasping for water, while I firmly said "get your darn butt down" in the process or go to Joe Smokeblower telling you how great you are, who would you want? Punishment or Smokeblower?

I can guarentee you will improve with me. I can do so because you will work your legs and your technique while judging, watching, and hitting a ball. You will work on your recovery or you will die in the drill and will fail. Getting through failure and frustration is what builds up the tennis player. Toughmindness surfaces and a heart to succeed like nobody's business.

Smokeblower down the street just feeds you balls and tells you how great you look. He chit-chats with you, laughing and smiling while you hit ball over the fence. He has his girlfriends show up and they talk with him while he hits balls to you. Heck, he might even setup the ball machine and watch you from the side with the occasional "bend your knees a bit more bub."

The_Steak
01-20-2009, 02:04 PM
Actually I am trying to find a good coach to teach me, I have the work ethic but what is a good way to say to a coach, stop giving me complements and work me like a horse?

Bungalo Bill
01-20-2009, 02:17 PM
Actually I am trying to find a good coach to teach me, I have the work ethic but what is a good way to say to a coach, stop giving me complements and work me like a horse?

Depends on the coach. Some can take it. You tell them straight out. "stop blowing smoke up my butt and work me."

I had a player flat out tell my I was a "softy" and "couldnt coach him to save my life."

I got ****ed and drilled the hell out of him. He loved it. Later, I knew he was right. I was slowing down with him for some reason.

If you like your coach, tell him how you want to be drilled. You are paying for the lesson right? Hopefully he wont have an ego and will listen. However, he might have a reason he is not working you hard or is afraid he will lose you.

I just find the best way to build up players is to NOT take it easy on them.

LuckyR
01-20-2009, 03:01 PM
Like many other topics, different strokes for different folks. There are as many differnt coaches as there are different coaching needs and many coaches are good at some, but not all of what various players seek from coaches. It doesn't mean this or that coach is better or worse, they have different goals (as do their clients).

Some want their coach to develop their strokes (as they have none to begin with). Others already have strokes (often imperfect) but they don't want their entire technique deconstructed then began again. They want optimization of what they already have. Still others are satified with their strokes and are after true "coaching" (as opposed to "teaching") and want/need a critique of their Mental game and strategy. Many, many folks enjoy tennis and are after a socially fun, group event run by someone with a certain charm and attitude. Some look down on coaches who excell in this area, but they have a place in tennis instruction as well, since a lot of their clients are paying the bills so that guy can go down to the downtown courts and do some instruction gratis. Or so the Club can afford scholarships for serious kids of limited means.

tennisguyak
01-20-2009, 03:30 PM
I agree with all the points about how there are different coaches that are better with recreational players and others who a player who is looking to make a career or at least go to college with tennis should go to. And these recreational coaches are needed for all of the 2.5/3.0 adult leagues out there to be nice and friendly and give their players some exercise.

But I think that the outside world is really misguided by all of these country club coaches who are there to provide a can of balls, some small talk, and encouragement to the "weekenders" who come to the courts to play a set every once in a while. Many people consider tennis a pansy sport because they think its about drving up in your convertible, tying your sweater around your neck, polishing your rolex, and making grunt noises as you slap the ball back and forth with a 130 sq in. racket. If tennis weren't considered such a "high class" sport, and some coaches really showed their students how brutal and difficult this sport can be, I think many more kids would be up to the challenge of playing tennis.

LuckyR
01-20-2009, 03:52 PM
My guess is there is more thought of convertibles/sweaters and Rolexes in your post than in folks who play social tennis. These often older players are usually extremely well versed in the game, much more so than tournament playing teens who think they invented the game. Or put it a different way, who do you think are in the stands at the Slams in higher numbers, retired people who play social doubles or hotshot tournament players?

tennisguyak
01-20-2009, 05:19 PM
My guess is there is more thought of convertibles/sweaters and Rolexes in your post than in folks who play social tennis. These often older players are usually extremely well versed in the game, much more so than tournament playing teens who think they invented the game. Or put it a different way, who do you think are in the stands at the Slams in higher numbers, retired people who play social doubles or hotshot tournament players?

I'm not saying thats the way I see recreational tennis, I was saying that the outside world -- the people who don't play -- think of the game that way. I agree with you that there are many older people who can dominate many of the younger players on court simply by experience and consistency. But I don't think its fair to make the argument about how many younger players there are in the stands vs. how many older retired players there are, simply b/c many of the younger kids just can't afford and don't have the time to watch professional tennis. But that doesn't mean they don't love it just as much as the people who can afford to and have the time to travel and watch it live.

Bungalo Bill
01-21-2009, 07:48 AM
Like many other topics, different strokes for different folks. There are as many differnt coaches as there are different coaching needs and many coaches are good at some, but not all of what various players seek from coaches. It doesn't mean this or that coach is better or worse, they have different goals (as do their clients).

Some want their coach to develop their strokes (as they have none to begin with). Others already have strokes (often imperfect) but they don't want their entire technique deconstructed then began again. They want optimization of what they already have. Still others are satified with their strokes and are after true "coaching" (as opposed to "teaching") and want/need a critique of their Mental game and strategy. Many, many folks enjoy tennis and are after a socially fun, group event run by someone with a certain charm and attitude. Some look down on coaches who excell in this area, but they have a place in tennis instruction as well, since a lot of their clients are paying the bills so that guy can go down to the downtown courts and do some instruction gratis. Or so the Club can afford scholarships for serious kids of limited means.

Sort of, however, you are missing one important ingredient - money.

It also depends on what people know. Many people only see one way of tennis teaching and think that's the way it is. When they discover that tennis can be fun and tough concerning training the smoke-blowers are left in the dust.

Nice try and there is some truth to your comments above but it isnt that easy.

LuckyR
01-21-2009, 10:09 AM
Sort of, however, you are missing one important ingredient - money.

It also depends on what people know. Many people only see one way of tennis teaching and think that's the way it is. When they discover that tennis can be fun and tough concerning training the smoke-blowers are left in the dust.

Nice try and there is some truth to your comments above but it isnt that easy.

I think we are discussing two different things and I didn't address your topic (poor coaches) in my post. I was comparing good coaches with different skills, not a good coach versus a poor one. I am assuming your phrase of "smoke blower" is your term for a poor coach.

I guess I don't get where money enters the picture, except as I mentioned it in my post. What are you driving at there?

LuckyR
01-21-2009, 10:13 AM
I'm not saying thats the way I see recreational tennis, I was saying that the outside world -- the people who don't play -- think of the game that way. I agree with you that there are many older people who can dominate many of the younger players on court simply by experience and consistency. But I don't think its fair to make the argument about how many younger players there are in the stands vs. how many older retired players there are, simply b/c many of the younger kids just can't afford and don't have the time to watch professional tennis. But that doesn't mean they don't love it just as much as the people who can afford to and have the time to travel and watch it live.

I apologize for being confusing. I never meant that social players play tennis better than "tournament playing teens". No, the younger players generally would wipe the court with the folks I am speaking of. Rather I was talking about how many social players know more about and take tennis more seriously than their lack of playing skill would lead you to believe.

Steady Eddy
01-21-2009, 12:03 PM
Maybe a coach should ask the customer if they want to improve rapidly or slowly. If they are willing to work, or if they want to fee good about themselves. In tutoring math I noticed that I wasted alot of time telling people not to worry about a certain mistake, how they're doing well, and other things to build up their confidence. I knew that if someone just wanted to learn the material, we could go alot faster. If you're serious about getting better ask the pro what you're doing wrong, and not waste time with him sugar coating all of your faults.

ssjkyle31
01-21-2009, 12:26 PM
You can't blame some of these coaches who are easy on the kids. They make there living on teaching tennis. There is a fine line between being a hard teacher and being an a#####e in front of the parents who are paying the bill. Just because you are a college tennis player or even ex-pro tennis player, means that you will get a comfortable living off teaching.

Lets face the facts, 99.8% of the kids who take tennis lessons will not be good enough to go pro. But those 99%, are going to be the ones providing the consumer $$$ for Tennis as a sport.

Bungalo Bill
01-21-2009, 03:38 PM
I think we are discussing two different things and I didn't address your topic (poor coaches) in my post. I was comparing good coaches with different skills, not a good coach versus a poor one. I am assuming your phrase of "smoke blower" is your term for a poor coach.

I guess I don't get where money enters the picture, except as I mentioned it in my post. What are you driving at there?

There are a lot of good coaches and I will always defend coaches even though the player may think the coach is wrong.

However, unless people have tried to earn a living from their next lesson, delt with rainouts, wind, heat, flakes, whiners, parents, bosses, club queens, and just plain ol' nitwit people, you wont know the pressure to go the "social" route in teaching tennis.

I understand that there are different types of coaches and coaches are good or bad within those groups.

Smoke blower is a person who is or is not a good coach and has succumbed their critque or commitment to truly improve a player to just makign money and keeping the student around as long as possible. They will ebb and flow just to keep the student around and a slot filled. What I find with many of them is what can be taught in two lessons takes five lessons. It isnt the quality of the coach necessarily but the value of the lesson given.

That is why I can say I will guarentee you will improve because my sole aim is to get you to your goal more than mine (make money). A lot of good coaches and poor coaches dont take that approach. In other words, the smoke blower is a sandbagger when it comes to lessons.

On the other hand? You have the player who wants miracles from their lessons but doesnt put any effort on their own to improve and take advantage of the lesson.

LuckyR
01-22-2009, 12:39 PM
There are a lot of good coaches and I will always defend coaches even though the player may think the coach is wrong.

However, unless people have tried to earn a living from their next lesson, delt with rainouts, wind, heat, flakes, whiners, parents, bosses, club queens, and just plain ol' nitwit people, you wont know the pressure to go the "social" route in teaching tennis.

I understand that there are different types of coaches and coaches are good or bad within those groups.

Smoke blower is a person who is or is not a good coach and has succumbed their critque or commitment to truly improve a player to just makign money and keeping the student around as long as possible. They will ebb and flow just to keep the student around and a slot filled. What I find with many of them is what can be taught in two lessons takes five lessons. It isnt the quality of the coach necessarily but the value of the lesson given.

That is why I can say I will guarentee you will improve because my sole aim is to get you to your goal more than mine (make money). A lot of good coaches and poor coaches dont take that approach. In other words, the smoke blower is a sandbagger when it comes to lessons.

On the other hand? You have the player who wants miracles from their lessons but doesnt put any effort on their own to improve and take advantage of the lesson.


As I alluded to, this was an aspect of professional coaching that I was unfamiliar with. Great description.

sureshs
01-22-2009, 01:35 PM
Whenever I see coaches featured on the Tennis channel who are working in some resort (and there are some well-known names including former tour players), they say: if you come here for an adult camp, we will work with you but not attempt to change you. It seems to be the recurring theme. So if a player hits with the wrong grip, they say hit thru the ball more, not "your grip sucks." In a doubles clinic where a lady is tapping the ball badminton-style, they say "move forward." Basic problems are not addressed, probably because they don't expect the players to ever change. They are catering to the customer, if you will. Like a waiter will not tell a restaurant patron that he is too fat and should skip dinner.

Bungalo Bill
01-22-2009, 01:59 PM
Whenever I see coaches featured on the Tennis channel who are working in some resort (and there are some well-known names including former tour players), they say: if you come here for an adult camp, we will work with you but not attempt to change you. It seems to be the recurring theme.

Aaahhh...hahahahaha...yeah...I heard that as well. To earn money, tennis coaching has become a "please the player anyway we can" sport. Everything is turning player-centered. Sort of like child-centered parenting. Anything the child wants give it to him to make him happy.

Try hearing a football coach tell you that. "You know Johnny, you are a swell guy. On this team, we dont want to change you, we just want you to be happy. Do you feel like doing some push-ups right now Johnny? It's okay if you say no, we can do something else more fun. Was I okay in telling you to go through the hole quicker? I didnt hurt your feelings or anything did I?"

So if a player hits with the wrong grip, they say hit thru the ball more, not "your grip sucks."

Hahahaha, this is good stuff. I dont know if I would say "your grip sucks" but I might be thinking that. However, I would immediately ask you to change it (if necessary) and give you the reason why. If that doesnt do it, I might say "your grip sucks." hahaha

In a doubles clinic where a lady is tapping the ball badminton-style, they say "move forward." Basic problems are not addressed, probably because they don't expect the players to ever change. They are catering to the customer, if you will. Like a waiter will not tell a restaurant patron that he is too fat and should skip dinner.

Very good insight. Sort of like signing your yearbook. "See you in the summer, I wish we could have talked more, dont ever change."

LuckyR
01-22-2009, 09:47 PM
Whenever I see coaches featured on the Tennis channel who are working in some resort (and there are some well-known names including former tour players), they say: if you come here for an adult camp, we will work with you but not attempt to change you. It seems to be the recurring theme. So if a player hits with the wrong grip, they say hit thru the ball more, not "your grip sucks." In a doubles clinic where a lady is tapping the ball badminton-style, they say "move forward." Basic problems are not addressed, probably because they don't expect the players to ever change. They are catering to the customer, if you will. Like a waiter will not tell a restaurant patron that he is too fat and should skip dinner.


Well to be fair, many if not most adults (you know, people with jobs and families), probably don't have the time to take a completely deconstructed stroke back to zero and learn a new (better) stroke from scratch. I agree that if they had the time and energy, it would lead to a better final product, but it could be a pretty rocky road getting there.

I do agree that an adult camp coach should not imply that they would never deconstruct an adult stroke, since there are going to be those individuals (perhaps retired) who do have the time and desire to benefit.

sureshs
01-23-2009, 01:33 PM
Well to be fair, many if not most adults (you know, people with jobs and families), probably don't have the time to take a completely deconstructed stroke back to zero and learn a new (better) stroke from scratch. I agree that if they had the time and energy, it would lead to a better final product, but it could be a pretty rocky road getting there.

I do agree that an adult camp coach should not imply that they would never deconstruct an adult stroke, since there are going to be those individuals (perhaps retired) who do have the time and desire to benefit.

It is like school homework. Teacher gives too little -> parents say school is not preparing the child for the global economy or whatever. Too much homework -> parents say it is not required and interfering with other activities. Unfortunately, the threshold is different for different parents, so the schools are always in a bind, and the pendulum swings each way every few years.