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VGP
01-20-2009, 04:18 PM
Well, I'll kick off a thread discussing my favorite (and now officially discontinued) frame, the Wilson PS85.

I hope fellow PS85 lovers will chime in and hopefully keep the discussion healthy!

dunno
01-20-2009, 04:22 PM
I haven't used the 85, but I do love my 95. Maybe we can convince Wilson to make more! :'(

VGP
01-20-2009, 04:23 PM
I wish.

Seems like Wilson's eggs are in the k90 and kPS88, rather the Federer and Sampras baskets, at the moment!


______


Also, I hope people could post pics of their beloved frames. I never tire of seeing these frames. New......and well used (loved).

leonidas1982
01-20-2009, 04:28 PM
how do you feel the about the composition change of the kps88? do you think it matters?

dunno
01-20-2009, 04:48 PM
Here's my baby:

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6730/p1060620wy5.jpg

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5963/p1060623cp2.jpg

VGP
01-20-2009, 05:35 PM
Nice.

Looks like you really love playing with your frame. You've got an interesting placement of lead tape..... :)

I'll have to get some pics of my frames up.

Either that or I'll try and find the ones that I've already posted on the board.

meowmix
01-20-2009, 05:50 PM
Question for you guys. In the second make of the Wilson Graphite Matrix, did Wilson keep the same mold as the PS 85, just without the PWS? Because somebody on these boards just sent me a PS85 clone, and the two don't match up...

plasma
01-21-2009, 12:39 PM
what are spec difs between the taiwan and china?

VGP
01-21-2009, 02:19 PM
meowmix - sorry, don't know much about the Wilson Graphite Matrix at all. I've only seen the black one with the red and white striping. It was of a mold similar to the Wilson Reflex that had a narrower throat shape.

plasma - as for the differences between the Taiwanese and Chinese PS85s, the Taiwanese is the same shape as the SV with the same drill pattern since the plastic parts are easily installed for both. The Chinese PS85 (and there are differences depending on age) has a slightly wider throat shape and has different cosmetic differences. Plus it's hard to install the plastic parts of a Chinese PS85 onto Chicago/SV/Taiwanese.

Perhaps I'll take some time to delineate the differences that I know of.....unless someone else would like to.......

dunno
01-21-2009, 03:13 PM
Nice.

Looks like you really love playing with your frame. You've got an interesting placement of lead tape..... :)

I'll have to get some pics of my frames up.

Either that or I'll try and find the ones that I've already posted on the board.
Actually I bought this one used lol. But my other one cracked, so yeah I definitely play 'em. And the lead tape like that works awesome, the balance is barely changed since now it's 11pts headlight instead of the stock 10. But it plays so much better with the lead.

gsquicksilver
01-21-2009, 03:32 PM
Question for you guys. In the second make of the Wilson Graphite Matrix, did Wilson keep the same mold as the PS 85, just without the PWS? Because somebody on these boards just sent me a PS85 clone, and the two don't match up...

actually no. it's not the same mold as the ps85. if you compare the two, the matrix has a narrower throat area than the ps85.

meowmix
01-21-2009, 03:49 PM
Hmm, thanks. I was wondering since I had read somewhere that they came from similar molds.

plasma
01-22-2009, 07:26 AM
still looking for spec comparissons between taiwan, China, and Vinny
http://i42.tinypic.com/244wle8.jpg

hoodjem
01-22-2009, 09:17 AM
I believe that Wilson is still making both PS 85 and PS 95 racquets. Someone posted pics of a whole bunch of both hanging on the wall of a Asian shop on TT a week or two ago.

They all looked brand new.

I was tempted, but I've moved on.

dunno
01-22-2009, 09:36 AM
I believe that Wilson is still making both PS 85 and PS 95 racquets. Someone posted pics of a whole bunch of both hanging on the wall of a Asian shop on TT a week or two ago.

They all looked brand new.

I was tempted, but I've moved on.

Yeah I saw, buy maybe they are just New Old Stock? Also you couldn't buy them online could you?

jayserinos99
01-22-2009, 09:30 PM
I just picked up a Chicago today via trade (Pure Drive Cortex). It's strung up way too tight...I will probably string it up with gut at 53 lbs. I plan on keeping this one as a nice hit from time to time.

String|Guru
01-23-2009, 11:19 AM
This is great! There is a serious lack of talk about this racquet on these boards! :wink:

VGP
01-23-2009, 12:28 PM
Hey, it's a "classic" now.

At least it's not the kPS88. :)

Its discontinuation makes me feel old school. Or just plain old.

VGP
01-23-2009, 06:30 PM
These are in another thread, but I'll share them here too (sorry for the current production frame):

http://i41.tinypic.com/i6cenp.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/20afcpz.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/5wi5ft.jpg

Kal-El 34
01-23-2009, 06:36 PM
how do you tell a st. vincent from other models?

meowmix
01-23-2009, 06:53 PM
Is it just me, or does one of those 6.0's have a bit more of a rounded throat than the others? (your last pic VGP)

Kal-El 34
01-23-2009, 07:39 PM
i have one with a JWP on the buttcap??? can someone tell me which version this one is?? ASAP

VGP
01-23-2009, 08:47 PM
Is it just me, or does one of those 6.0's have a bit more of a rounded throat than the others? (your last pic VGP)

If you mean by how convex the profile is along the edge, then yes it is more rounded. Not by much but still. It also reflected the flash more in the pic. The finish on the bottom PS85 is more "polished" there. That's where I place my non-dominant hand when holding the racket.

gymrat76
01-24-2009, 03:53 PM
Hey VGP!
It is great that you started this thread!!

I see that you set up the lead tape at 3&9 and higher in the frame. Which location you found to be more efficient?

What strings do you prefer and what lbs?

I put lead at 3&9 exactly as yours (or as in the Sampras' racquet pics from Greg Raven site) but just one layer and at 66lbs. Two or more layers of lead and it will be too powerful (which requires that I go higher in tension and my stringer doesn't to doing so:)

Also, how would you compare the KPS88 to PS85 feel-wise?

Thanks! :)

gymrat76
01-24-2009, 03:55 PM
Here's my baby:

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6730/p1060620wy5.jpg

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5963/p1060623cp2.jpg


Did you abuse your baby??? :shock:

And I see that you been to Cauthen's threads lol..Good luck with finding the secret that The Establishment been hiding from us! hahahahahhahaha

dunno
01-24-2009, 04:03 PM
I never looked at his thread, I just played around with the weight at the throat and it worked!

That's not abuse, sometimes you gotta teach 'em work ethic. :D

gymrat76
01-24-2009, 04:24 PM
I never looked at his thread, I just played around with the weight at the throat and it worked!

That's not abuse, sometimes you gotta teach 'em work ethic. :D

Really? Hmmm...let me check it out for myself, then...
If i remember right, these you are playing with are the 95sq inch ones, right? Not the 85 sq inch one, correct?

Mick
01-24-2009, 04:36 PM
I never looked at his thread, I just played around with the weight at the throat and it worked!

That's not abuse, sometimes you gotta teach 'em work ethic. :D

they say the lines on a man's face give him character. maybe the scratches on a racquet give it character too :)

dunno
01-24-2009, 04:42 PM
they say the lines on a man's face give him character. maybe the scratches on a racquet give it character too :)
That's exactly what I think about my rackets, and my guitars too. :)

Really? Hmmm...let me check it out for myself, then...
If i remember right, these you are playing with are the 95sq inch ones, right? Not the 85 sq inch one, correct?

Yeah the 95, before the weighting it was good but took a very fast swing to get any power and not so much stability. But now it's nice. I actually only have 1 prostaff, my other one cracked but hopefully the Yonex RDS 001 mid will be as similar to my 6.0 95 as it's specs suggest.

gymrat76
01-24-2009, 04:48 PM
That's exactly what I think about my rackets, and my guitars too. :).


Yeah same goes with karate/fight sports belts as well..the dirtier, older they are...better it is...and of course, goes with wines as well :)

but for the least, can you get a new grip? lol

dunno
01-24-2009, 04:52 PM
lol, I didn't have any more of those Head grips so I just used it till it was dead. Then I tried using the leather grip underneath and almost ripped my hands apart! Gosh I need more of those nice soft grips.

edit: wait you like dirty wine lol?!

Jaxon
01-24-2009, 04:57 PM
Did you abuse your baby??? :shock:

And I see that you been to Cauthen's threads lol..Good luck with finding the secret that The Establishment been hiding from us! hahahahahhahaha

lol it says to put weight there on unique lead tapes (not mr C's idea)... I first thought mr Cauthaun or something knew a great deal about racquets. But someone soon showed me that he's been *****ing around a lot of different forums saying that his ideas were robbed by companies. Whether it is a car shape, structure of a motor, or in this case racquet. Don't believe me I don't care but I can now see that he is nothing but a crazy old man.

dunno
01-24-2009, 07:13 PM
Yeah that is true, it says on the package to put lead at 3 and 9, and in order to preserve the balance of the frame you should put the same amount of lead at the throat.

But I actually put probably 6 times as much on the throat as I did at 3 and 9.

jorel
01-26-2009, 08:55 AM
wats the story with st vincent... i cant seem to find any info on these boards about it

ag200boy
01-26-2009, 09:04 AM
St. vincent story (http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/60/StVincent.html)

VGP
01-26-2009, 09:41 AM
wats the story with st vincent... i cant seem to find any info on these boards about it

Are you being sarcastic?

jorel
01-26-2009, 10:34 AM
Are you being sarcastic?
its a wonderful thing

gymrat76
01-26-2009, 03:54 PM
Are you being sarcastic?

Hey VGP, did you see my post with questions about your lead/string setups?
Am just curious which lead set up you like more (3&9 or upper hoop) and your choice of tension/strings...
Am curious, because, I am NOT able to enjoy PS85s for any tension less than 65lbs (with lead set up such as yours) Because, I find the frame to be too powerful..Look forward to hearing your thoughts...

VGP
01-26-2009, 04:23 PM
gymrat76 - sorry, missed your post on the lead tape setups....

For some reason, I gravitated to different setups for the different PS85s. The upper hoop feels better on the Taiwanese because those frames feel denser than the Chinese ones. As they are, they're about 13.7 ounces, 8 points headlight. Since they're heavier at the stock weight, the twistweight feels like it would get sluggish at 3 and 9.

For the Chinese, they definitely feel less dense. "Hollow" is how some people like to call it, in comparison to Chicago/SV/Taiwanese. These frames need the added stability at 3 and 9. Those frames are 13.1 ounces, 6 points headlight. I'm not super fond of these frames and haven't taken the time to tweak them further. I may try adding weight at the handle.....

As for strings, I like solid-core single wrap synthetics like PSGO 16. I just like the firm feel of the stringbed. I feel like they flatten the ball real good. Right now, the Taiwanese frames are strung with a similar string, Alpha MXT Synthetic Gut 16. at 65 pounds reference tension.

The Chinese frames are setup with Gamma Natural Gut 16 main, PSGO 16 crosses at 65 pounds reference tension.

I know what you mean about stringing at 65 pounds or more......that's just where I've ended up over the years. Good for spin, decent pop with control for serves, great control for volleys.

Azzurri
01-26-2009, 04:35 PM
I just cut the headguard portion off to only allow room for the grommets and string. It should make the racquets more HL. I will try it out Friday. Its a Taiwan model...its ok compared to my SV racquets. If my SV werent so PRISTINE I would play them...damn!

VGP
01-26-2009, 04:48 PM
Curious to see how much different it plays for you....

How much did you decrease the weight and how much more headlight did you get it?

Azzurri
01-26-2009, 06:19 PM
Curious to see how much different it plays for you....

How much did you decrease the weight and how much more headlight did you get it?

I did what Drakulie did on his new KPS 88. I will leave the leather grip on for now. I assume 5 grams from the head. not sure of the HL.

morten
01-27-2009, 12:59 AM
I did what Drakulie did on his new KPS 88. I will leave the leather grip on for now. I assume 5 grams from the head. not sure of the HL.

I plan on trimming the bumper too, leaving the leather.. Tell me how it works out for you :)

Azzurri
01-27-2009, 09:35 AM
I plan on trimming the bumper too, leaving the leather.. Tell me how it works out for you :)

will know Friday. I plan to continue to S&V as I have changed my game. I just don't have the stamina (as of now) to run and run around on the court. I have become so used to playing doubles over the years that now I am mostly a singles player...way different.

gymrat76
01-27-2009, 03:45 PM
[QUOTE=VGP;3053118]gymrat76 - sorry, missed your post on the lead tape setups....

For some reason, I gravitated to different setups for the different PS85s. The upper hoop feels better on the Taiwanese because those frames feel denser than the Chinese ones. As they are, they're about 13.7 ounces, 8 points headlight. Since they're heavier at the stock weight, the twistweight feels like it would get sluggish at 3 and 9.

For the Chinese, they definitely feel less dense. "Hollow" is how some people like to call it, in comparison to Chicago/SV/Taiwanese. These frames need the added stability at 3 and 9. Those frames are 13.1 ounces, 6 points headlight. I'm not super fond of these frames and haven't taken the time to tweak them further. I may try adding weight at the handle.....

As for strings, I like solid-core single wrap synthetics like PSGO 16. I just like the firm feel of the stringbed. I feel like they flatten the ball real good. Right now, the Taiwanese frames are strung with a similar string, Alpha MXT Synthetic Gut 16. at 65 pounds reference tension.

The Chinese frames are setup with Gamma Natural Gut 16 main, PSGO 16 crosses at 65 pounds reference tension.

I know what you mean about stringing at 65 pounds or more......that's just where I've ended up over the years. Good for spin, decent

Well o.k..I am glad I am not the only one who likes to string around 65ish!
Because, I just see a tendency among people to string even at lower poundage such as low 40's, and it is known that Federer used to string it low as well. For me, the racquet shined at 66lbs.
All 3 racquets I have are SVs. Two bumperless one bumpered. I bought a new Chinese back in 03' I believe (which had no collectible status like it is now back then:) and was definitely hollow as you said, lighter and less stable.

The bumpered one definitely has a much lighter swingweight. I like playing with the more stable bumperless ones.

As much as I love PS85s, the feedback it gives you, that joy of flat hitting and painting the sidelines with it, I think it requires a full 2-3 hrs per day 3-4 days a week in order to fully enjoy it -which I am not able to do so- so I do better with current frames better these days. Moreover PS6.0 85 shines with net game, so I need to improve that as well.
Happy Hitting!

VGP
01-31-2009, 09:34 PM
I had posted a suggestion of the "evolution" of the Wilson PS85 earlier and was hoping someone would chime in, but since no one has.....

I'll start with what I know.

Thanks to an image I'm borrowing from joe sch at woodtennis.com.....that's where it begins:

http://www.woodtennis.com/sampras/chicago60a.jpg

I'll leave out buttcap code letters as that seems to lead to confusion and there is debate as to the accuracy of origin determination.

The Chicago PS85:

- original bright yellow and red pinstriping
- bumperless construction
- grip size sticker, recommended tension sticker "String at 65-70 lbs." and specification sticker "Weight/Oz. 11.6-12.3 Unstrung - Balanced 1.0-1.5 in. headlight" inside one side of the throat
- three separate raised throat grommets
- Fairway leather grip
- White butt cap with large red "W" - no registered trade mark symbol
- red primer seen at grommet drill holes and through scratches in the top black coat
- Buttcap code located below red "W"
- pinstriping and "Midsize" on both sides of throat
- Wilson Pro Staff nylon racket bag with strap, no grip venting

Transition to St. Vincent (early-mid):
- Addition of "St. Vincent W.I" sticker above red "W" of buttcap (these are easily lost)
- Recommended tension sticker lowered to "String at 55-65 lbs."
- transition from bumperless construction to addition of bumperguard

St. Vincent (mid-late):
- Stickers replaced in throat to decals that describe Wilson PWS on one side, recommended tension on the other (50-60 lbs.) and higher/lower tension recommendation for control/power
- black rectangular grip size sticker placed at the outside of the throat above the handle
- throat grommets are thinner
- these have either "Midsize" decal on both sides of throat or one side has "80% braided graphite/20% kevlar" decal
- addition of red registered trademark symbol at lower right of "W" on butt cap
- "Wilson Quality" hologram sticker at base of throat opposite grip size sticker. Serial number in bold black font

Transition to Taiwan (early):
- loss of red primer to grey primer
- Butt cap code location moves above red "W"
- all cap "TAIWAN" sticker placed below "W" on butt cap
- Fairway leather grip

Taiwan (later)
- pinstriping color darker in tint
- recommended tension decal now has recommendation for using Wilson syn gut
- "Wilson Quality" hologram sticker now has bar code and small dot-matrix print
- Fairway leather grip
- Racket bag looks similar to original, but has grid-venting for grip

Transition to China
- same as late Taiwanese, but has all cap "CHINA" sticker below "W" on butt cap (use of last stock I assume)

Chinese PS85 (early)
- New design with wider throat and one-piece throat grommet
- slightly different drill pattern as the old grommets no longer easily fit
- White primer
- "Italicized" Pro Staff logo
- larger "PWS" at sides of head
- brighter, wideer pinstriping
- Fairway leather and white butt cap
- Throat decal has specs and square with "6.0" swing index info
- Racket bag matches fonts on racket with "braided" image on face

Chinese (mid)
- use of "Pro Staff 6.0" in Garamond font at face of throat
- transition from use of Fairway leather to Wilson leather
- transition from white butt cap to black butt cap with red square and small white Wilson "W"
- Racket bag matches the fonts and graphics of frame

Chinese (late and last)
- transition to silver specification decal at insides of throat
- use of generic Wilson Pro Staff racket bag


It's late and that's what I remember being the major (and some minor) changes to the Wilson PS85 over the years.

I'm sure some corrections and/or additions are in order, please feel free to discuss.....

Thaychua
01-31-2009, 09:42 PM
Thank for taking the time and listing all that. It's very helpful for others and will provide a good source for reference.

Correct me, IIRC, some of the ealiest SV have 65-70 string tension as well i believe.

jayserinos99
01-31-2009, 09:47 PM
I just picked up a Chicago today via trade (Pure Drive Cortex). It's strung up way too tight...I will probably string it up with gut at 53 lbs. I plan on keeping this one as a nice hit from time to time.

I didn't string up the Chicago with natural gut but with MSV Hex 18L mains, Gosen OG Sheep Micro 18 crosses at 50 lbs. Added a leather grip and some power pads too. Played like I thought it would; a nice controlled stringbed that pocketed the ball decently. I wouldn't use this as my main stick, but I would definitely just play with this frame when I'm in the mood to s&v all the time.

VGP
01-31-2009, 09:48 PM
You're welcome.....

You're right Thaychua. I think the high recommended tension labels are on the earliest SVs.

I forgot to add that a lot of these characteristics "bleed over" from one period to the next as Wilson changed their production over.

But there are features that will not be found on one frame or the other.....for example:

- a Chicago or St. Vincent PS85 will not have 6.0 anywhere on the frame.

- a Chinese PS85 will not have bumperless construction

....you get the idea.

VGP
01-31-2009, 10:04 PM
Thaychua - I remember you have a great collection of classic frames....

I hope you don't mind, but I'm quoting a post of yours from the picture thread. It looks like you arranged your PS85s in sort of chronological order....

http://i39.tinypic.com/2s94tgo.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/9thbhi.jpg

dunno
01-31-2009, 10:26 PM
That's a very cool pic, and I have two more PS 6.0 95's coming my way. :D

VGP
02-01-2009, 03:44 PM
Good to see you're gonna have some more of your favorites!

:)

Thaychua
02-04-2009, 09:31 AM
Not at all VGP. I think it's not in chronological order; i just threw them together and snap a couple pics :)
Pictured there are 1x sv, 2 taiwans, and 5 chinas.

plasma
02-04-2009, 11:57 PM
am I the only one who sees the lack of production of an 85 by any major company as a deliberate terroist action???? what fredoms will they take away next??? I'm armed, though! I've got more gtx's and prostaffs in my closet than I can count...that crisp feeling of kevlar is superb. The round head let's me change direction on grounstrokes effortlessly...prostaffs are awesome, stiff but soft, softspoken but not dead, able to humbly come up with brilliant shots in the heat of battle...

morten
02-05-2009, 01:58 AM
well put ... plasma...

aimr75
02-08-2009, 05:04 PM
I have another one, but this is my favourite:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4367/img0941hv6.jpg

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/81/img0937ow5.jpg

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8004/img0939jp4.jpg

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3265/img0947ai1.jpg

aimr75
02-08-2009, 05:04 PM
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/722/img0943qb2.jpg

VGP
02-08-2009, 05:19 PM
Awesome pics of your St. Vincent amir75, thanks!

roundiesee
02-08-2009, 09:08 PM
That's brilliant VGP, thanks so much for summarising the Pro Staff's evolution. Should be made into a "sticky" for all to read :)
I need to ask you whether you know of this version called the "Pro Staff 6.0 DB", apparently made for the Japanese market. I think these were "Chinese" as well, but with "Asian" specs. If you had to insert this version into your summary sheet, where would it be? (ie when did this version come out in the grand scheme of things?)
Thanks!

VGP
02-15-2009, 11:20 PM
Thanks to tennisguyak and his tenniswiki.com database, I tried to pull together some info and photos on the PS85.....

http://thetenniswiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Wilson+Pro+Staff+6.0+Original+Mid+8 5

(I used some photos from this thread. I hope you guys don't mind)

roundiesee
02-17-2009, 08:13 PM
Wow! Another great write up, with pics to boot! Thanks so much for the link!

psp2
02-17-2009, 08:37 PM
Thanks to tennisguyak and his tenniswiki.com database, I tried to pull together some info and photos on the PS85.....

http://thetenniswiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Wilson+Pro+Staff+6.0+Original+Mid+8 5

(I used some photos from this thread. I hope you guys don't mind)

Do you need a photo of a PS85 with the PSTour90 pj?

VGP
02-17-2009, 09:02 PM
I sure do!

I know there's other ones out there....the DB, the 2000 Limited Edition Hyper Carbon........

psp2 - you can post it here (it's definitely germane to the thread) and I can add the link to the wiki page.

plasma
02-19-2009, 11:33 PM
ps 85 china 4 3/8 w/16g, nothing comes close...

plasma
02-20-2009, 01:52 PM
ok so the st. vincent is good too...
http://i39.tinypic.com/vp9d9y.jpg

Keifers
02-22-2009, 12:15 PM
Does anyone know where I can get new grommets for a bumperless PS Midsize?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

plasma
02-22-2009, 02:08 PM
there are expensive dealers you can go to but if you're not rich it could be a total ******...grommets are big bux these days!...
also wanted to chime in on the accuracy of my stiff ps 85 china....at least I know I can never ever blame the racquet...what great performance, what an awesome machine (this from a kneissl man!)...not surprising that Sampras played the kneissl in the juniors. Really cant think of many sticks that compare to the ultra 2, kneissl, and ps 85....

pshulam
02-24-2009, 04:40 AM
how do you tell a st. vincent from other models?
St. Vincent Version
Butt Cap Code = BSQ

VGP
02-28-2009, 02:40 PM
^^^ there are more butt cap code issues.

Some claim that the later Chicago PS85s had butt cap codes that end in "Q" and there are SV butt cap codes that end in A. Plus there are issues of whether or not someone has swapped out a butt cap onto another frame.

I've listed several other identifying factors on the wiki page. I was intentionally trying to avoid using butt cap codes (as in the letters themselves) as the determining identifiers on where certain frames were made.

People will post here and say, "my racket has butt cap code 'ABC'........but fail to say, for example, that it's got a black butt cap.......thus ruling out Chicago/SV/Taiwan......

I've tried to fix the picture links and tweak the info some on the PS original mid 85 (http://thetenniswiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Wilson+Pro+Staff+6.0+Original+Mid+8 5) page.......

Mansewerz
02-28-2009, 07:08 PM
So, what are the differences between Chicago, st. vincent, taiwan, chinese? How can you tell?

Mansewerz
02-28-2009, 07:09 PM
^^^ there are more butt cap code issues.

Some claim that the later Chicago PS85s had butt cap codes that end in "Q" and there are SV butt cap codes that end in A. Plus there are issues of whether or not someone has swapped out a butt cap onto another frame.

I've listed several other identifying factors on the wiki page. I was intentionally trying to avoid using butt cap codes (as in the letters themselves) as the determining identifiers on where certain frames were made.

People will post here and say, "my racket has butt cap code 'ABC'........but fail to say, for example, that it's got a black butt cap.......thus ruling out Chicago/SV/Taiwan......

I've tried to fix the picture links and tweak the info some on the PS original mid 85 (http://thetenniswiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Wilson+Pro+Staff+6.0+Original+Mid+8 5) page.......

Nevermind, all the info is here. I'll check it out.

Keifers
03-01-2009, 06:27 AM
^^^ there are more butt cap code issues.

Some claim that the later Chicago PS85s had butt cap codes that end in "Q" and there are SV butt cap codes that end in A. Plus there are issues of whether or not someone has swapped out a butt cap onto another frame.

I've listed several other identifying factors on the wiki page. I was intentionally trying to avoid using butt cap codes (as in the letters themselves) as the determining identifiers on where certain frames were made.

People will post here and say, "my racket has butt cap code 'ABC'........but fail to say, for example, that it's got a black butt cap.......thus ruling out Chicago/SV/Taiwan......

I've tried to fix the picture links and tweak the info some on the PS original mid 85 (http://thetenniswiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Wilson+Pro+Staff+6.0+Original+Mid+8 5) page.......
VGP,
Some of the early SVs had 65-70 lbs tension range, didn't they?

Would you mind updating the wiki page to reflect that?

Many thanks.

VGP
03-01-2009, 09:52 PM
Keifers - on your recommendation I added the info to the wiki page.

IMO, that makes it hard to pinpoint the transition from Chicago to SV given drakulie's assertion that some Chicago frames had buttcap codes that ended in "Q." I guess it's just one more thing to consider when dating these frames.....

I also added a disclaimer regarding the potential changing of plastic parts on some frames that further adds to the confusion.....

Perhaps it's not that big a deal these days regarding value. I haven't priced the frames in recent months, but it looks like the value (of all makes) has gone up since the discontinuation of the PS85 and the introduction of the kPS88.

I, personally, thought it would be the opposite.

psp2
03-01-2009, 10:03 PM
VGP, I emailed you a zip file with many photos of the PS85 with the PSTour 90 pj. Here's one of them:

http://tinyurl.com/b2ak5z

VGP
03-01-2009, 10:05 PM
Cool. Thanks psp2. I'll add them later. It's after 1 am my time right now and I should be getting to bed.

That's a PS85 that I wish I had.....even those racket covers were cool. :)

plasma
03-02-2009, 01:26 AM
where did those things come from?, is it pro stock?, ps 85 tour 90 pjs weren't ever relaesed to the public, correct?

VGP
03-02-2009, 05:08 AM
I know that TW sold them in 2003, part of a special run. I don't know if they were available elsewhere.....

morten
03-02-2009, 08:15 AM
VGP, I emailed you a zip file with many photos of the PS85 with the PSTour 90 pj. Here's one of them:

http://tinyurl.com/b2ak5z

I remember well, really regret not buying one, for sure the best looking racket i have ever seen!

Keifers
03-02-2009, 10:02 AM
Keifers - on your recommendation I added the info to the wiki page.

IMO, that makes it hard to pinpoint the transition from Chicago to SV given drakulie's assertion that some Chicago frames had buttcap codes that ended in "Q." I guess it's just one more thing to consider when dating these frames.....

I also added a disclaimer regarding the potential changing of plastic parts on some frames that further adds to the confusion.....

Perhaps it's not that big a deal these days regarding value. I haven't priced the frames in recent months, but it looks like the value (of all makes) has gone up since the discontinuation of the PS85 and the introduction of the kPS88.

I, personally, thought it would be the opposite.
Hey thanks for doing that, VGP.

Regarding buttcap codes ending in "Q," I'm thinking that a racquet with, say, HMQ would have been produced after a racquet with BSQ? If that's the case, then it's probably safe to assume that H_Q racquets were made in SV?

Keifers
03-02-2009, 10:05 AM
VGP, I emailed you a zip file with many photos of the PS85 with the PSTour 90 pj. Here's one of them:

http://tinyurl.com/b2ak5z
Wow, what a beauty!

I did buy a 6.0 95 with this pj when TW was selling them, but missed out on the PS85. As morten said, one of the best looking pjs ever.

psp2
03-02-2009, 12:23 PM
Hey thanks for doing that, VGP.

Regarding buttcap codes ending in "Q," I'm thinking that a racquet with, say, HMQ would have been produced after a racquet with BSQ? If that's the case, then it's probably safe to assume that H_Q racquets were made in SV?

"HMQ" is a code found on bumperless SV, IIRC. I think I have one somewhere. "BSQ" is a very late SV code. Even some Profiles frames that were made in SV had "BSQ" on them.

psp2
03-02-2009, 12:28 PM
More pics.

You can see the spec that says "90 sq. in".

http://tinyurl.com/aeade5

http://tinyurl.com/db87sv

http://tinyurl.com/bwakz7

http://tinyurl.com/ag87oy

Keifers
03-02-2009, 12:28 PM
Wow, so the codes are not alphabetical by date of manufacture. That complicates things... :confused:

Yes, I can confirm that HMQ (and HOQ) are bumperless.

psp2
03-02-2009, 12:29 PM
These 2 are different in that "Wilson" is on the throat.

http://tinyurl.com/cetta4

psp2
03-02-2009, 12:31 PM
Wow, so the codes are not alphabetical by date of manufacture. That complicates things... :confused:

Yes, I can confirm that HMQ (and HOQ) are bumperless.

I never understood (nor figured out) the method of codes.... HWQ, HOQ, HMQ, HSQ are found on OLDER SV PS85. That was all I could deduce.

Keifers
03-02-2009, 12:44 PM
A while back, someone posted a table showing codes, dates, locations, etc.

I can't find it, though.


(Great photos of the Tour 90 pjs!)

VGP
03-02-2009, 01:26 PM
Although that chart was made with good intentions, I've seen it manipulated in an e-bay auction when someone was trying to sell a SV.

As far as codes go all I can say is that on white buttcaps:

Those with codes located below the "W":

...that end in "I" are Chicago made.
...that end in "Q" could be Chicago made but most likely made in SV.
...I've seen end in "A" or "B" that look like SVs.

Those with codes that are above the "W":
...are made in Taiwan or China (use the other identifiers to determine which)

Black buttcap frames were all made in China.....unless some swapping's been done.

VGP
03-02-2009, 03:42 PM
This post (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=1701319&postcount=8) has the chart that you guys are talking about.

The thing is there are SV frames that have buttcap codes that end in "A" or "B." One of my SVs has a code that ends in "A" - QTA.

People tend to take this chart as factual data recorded by Wilson or something and all they want to know is what the code on their racket means. There is some confusion out there and the data is incomplete, plus it's placed on a part of the racket that can easily be replaced. That's why I've decided to leave it off the wiki page. Although the chart is mostly correct.

psp2
03-02-2009, 03:55 PM
This post (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=1701319&postcount=8) has the chart that you guys are talking about.

The thing is there are SV frames that have buttcap codes that end in "A" or "B." One of my SVs has a code that ends in "A" - QTA.

People tend to take this chart as factual data recorded by Wilson or something and all they want to know is what the code on their racket means. There is some confusion out there and the data is incomplete, plus it's placed on a part of the racket that can easily be replaced. That's why I've decided to leave it off the wiki page. Although the chart is mostly correct.

I've also seen "QTA" like yours. I have NEVER seen a SV that ends in a "B".

VGP
03-02-2009, 05:19 PM
psp2 - I added some of your pics to the wiki page.... :)

VGP
03-06-2009, 06:38 PM
Some more updates to the wiki page (http://thetenniswiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Wilson+Pro+Staff+6.0+Original+Mid+8 5).....like equijet's "stars and stripes" photos and jetlee2k's collection of Wilson Pro Staff models....

plasma
03-11-2009, 09:30 PM
I totally support more vintage websites (as long as no-one steals my pics). It's clear that racquet freak and Jet Li 2k have collections that merit at least an on-line museum (if not a physical one).
I still play the ps 85 as my main stick, but like to take massive cuts at the ball which requires a racquet which is a bit less stiff. Prostaffs are one of the best racquets ever made. Would love to find a ps 7.0 85 or a 6.1 85 (not a 6.0 with a 6.1 pj!!!)....

dunno
03-16-2009, 08:13 AM
Man I'm back down to two PS 6.0 95s lol!

I just went to Hilton Head, SC for my college tennis spring break trip and the frame cracked in pretty much the same place my other one cracked, this is so annoying lol. Well hopefully my two others don't crack, but some guy I met there said he would give me his old prostaff for free which would be great.

Also I let some people handle my PS and they were like, what the heck this thing is monsterously heavy because of the lead I have!


anyone guess where the crack is?(sorry not great photos)
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2455/p1080131.jpg

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/163/p1080135.jpg

vwfye
03-16-2009, 10:34 AM
i've just restrung my PS 85 at 65lbs (had the orignal strings in it and only had 1 session on it before) and it just came to life! ashway liberty 16 and it plays really nice now. with the grip build up, it is almost 14 oz now.

plasma
03-16-2009, 10:53 AM
has anyone on the staff of the prostaff discussion thread tried the 6.1 classic or 7.0 steffi prostaff 85? I have been after some for aeons....

SOY78
03-30-2009, 08:27 AM
I just bought a PS85 with a GAY buttcap code above the red W. On the inside of the throat is says made in Chiao Ta. Is this a PS made in China or Taiwan? Also the recommended tension on inside of the throat is 50-60 lbs.

jimbo333
03-30-2009, 09:16 AM
I just bought a PS85 with a GAY buttcap code above the red W.

Surely I can't be the only one to find this ever so slightly amusing:)

morten
03-30-2009, 09:30 AM
that is amusing... ha ha

VGP
03-30-2009, 09:56 AM
I just bought a PS85 with a GAY buttcap code above the red W. On the inside of the throat is says made in Chiao Ta. Is this a PS made in China or Taiwan? Also the recommended tension on inside of the throat is 50-60 lbs.

China.

If you check the wiki page, I've pictured one of my Taiwanese with the SEX butt cap code.

I guess we could put yours and mine together.....

tennisdad65
03-30-2009, 10:21 AM
Does anyone know what is the flex rating of the PS85? I have done a search here and on google, and cannot seem to hit the right thread on it.

ps.. never mind.. found it.. 66 on this thread
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=146534&highlight=PS85+flex

SOY78
03-30-2009, 11:35 AM
I know that GAY buttcap is amuzing and I'll have some photos of it soon ;)

SOY78
03-30-2009, 11:40 AM
Here is one front view and string pics:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/HOMEP666/String%20Jobs%202009/104_0936.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/HOMEP666/String%20Jobs%202009/104_0939.jpg

Keifers
03-30-2009, 12:04 PM
Does anyone know what is the flex rating of the PS85? I have done a search here and on google, and cannot seem to hit the right thread on it.

ps.. never mind.. found it.. 66 on this thread
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=146534&highlight=PS85+flex
Also, here's TW's description and specs for the 6.0 85 and 6.0 95 (from Jan, 2005):

http://web.archive.org/web/20041231014044/www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageRCWILSON-60.html

SOY78
03-31-2009, 09:44 AM
According to some of the links looks like I have a China version of PS85 just before they started comming out with the black buttcaps. Here are more photos:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/HOMEP666/TENNIS%20STUFF/100_8097.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/HOMEP666/TENNIS%20STUFF/100_8098.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/HOMEP666/TENNIS%20STUFF/100_8099.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/HOMEP666/TENNIS%20STUFF/100_8100.jpg

gsquicksilver
03-31-2009, 10:05 AM
According to some of the links looks like I have a China version of PS85 just before they started comming out with the black buttcaps. Here are more photos:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/HOMEP666/TENNIS%20STUFF/100_8097.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/HOMEP666/TENNIS%20STUFF/100_8098.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/HOMEP666/TENNIS%20STUFF/100_8099.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/HOMEP666/TENNIS%20STUFF/100_8100.jpg

dude, that buttcap code says "GAY"

haha!

SOY78
03-31-2009, 10:11 AM
Maybe I should just string that with rainbow strings and call it a day ;)

gsquicksilver
03-31-2009, 10:22 AM
Maybe I should just string that with rainbow strings and call it a day ;)

now that would be one SEXY ps85, hahaha

VGP
03-31-2009, 11:34 AM
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/HOMEP666/TENNIS%20STUFF/100_8097.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/2w6sd1y.jpg

I've paired your butt cap with mine.

dunno
03-31-2009, 02:58 PM
wtf lol, is that real?

SOY78
03-31-2009, 03:17 PM
LOL Yeah it is as real as it gets...

jimbo333
04-01-2009, 03:52 AM
This really is quite amusing:)

nyc
04-03-2009, 09:15 AM
I grew up playing the ps 6.0 95 and ps 6.1 classic, now playing the n6.1, but have started to flirt with smaller head sizes.

So out of nostalgia/collecting urge, I finally scored a ps85 from the auction site - Chicago version - and I must say, it is one of the sweetest racquets I have ever hit with.....everything just clicks. The weight, balance and feel are perfect, I most certainly got the bug! I have the kps88, but that thing is a MONSTER.

This sucks big time, as they're ridiculously expensive and I can't find bumperless grommets ANYWHERE! ARGH!! What's the best grommet strategy? Fittex Grommets? Hotrod some China version strip?

VGP
04-03-2009, 07:54 PM
I'm glad to hear you like your Chicago PS85, nyc. Too bad about your grommets. How bad off are your plastic parts? Do you just have the typical cracked ones at 1, 5, 7, and 11? Or are they totally shot?

If it's just a few cracked ones, nylon tubing will work. If you need a full set but still want it to be bumperless, you'd could get yourself a set that fits the SV and Taiwanese frames and trim the bumperguard off. Or you could get a set that fits the Chinese PS85, trim the bumperguard off and cut the strips in a few strategic places to make them fit better.......

"Hot rodding" the Chinese grommets might be the most cost-effective option. For what they're charging (i.e. on e-bay) for the SV fitting plastic parts, you can get 6 or 7 Chinese sets.

nyc
04-03-2009, 08:02 PM
thanks for the tip VGP! I'll try tubing first, but I'm afraid it's more than just the usual suspects, so I'll get the chinese version as a base. Fittex grommets will run me about $50, which is ridiculous.

Interestingly enough my KPS88 is only 3 Grams heavier than the Chicago, but much more HL. In th process of modding my KPS88 now...

VGP
04-03-2009, 08:14 PM
Good luck nyc. Hope you get your frame in its best playing shape soon.

You're saying that your kPS88 is more headlight than your Chicago?

See, when people say that the kPS88 is "no where near" the PS85 it really depends on what your frame of reference is with the old PS. drakulie on here loves the kPS88 and he says it's a lot like his favorite Chicago PS85s.....

PS85 specs were all over the place. But with some modification, a lot of them can be tailored to your liking. Same with the kPS88 (or many rackets for that matter).

nyc
04-03-2009, 08:42 PM
hahaha sorry that's the 3 Beers talking...what I meant to say is that the chicago is more HL....of course!

The KPS88 has a much more even balance, I guess that's why people are abandoning it in droves.

Jjust trimmed the bumpers off the KPS88 (and drew, amazingly, no blood), and rewrapped the grip (sloppy factory job on the leather) and will restring it tomorrow. It's almost 2 grams lighter in static than the chicago now, so it's going to be pretty close in specs all said and done. will take it for a comparison spin and hopefully the difference in balance doesn't bother me....

Boxspringhog
04-05-2009, 08:57 PM
Anyone know where to find a Chicago PS 85 grommet set?

plasma
04-06-2009, 08:52 PM
great question, is it the same mold as the island version....mon???? I don't really believe in nationalism but I love racquets made in the usa, so rare!

nyc
04-06-2009, 09:40 PM
I have been looking for those grommets as well...no luck so far. Suspecting I might have to go the fittex route.

plasma
04-12-2009, 09:00 AM
if you have 50 bux you can always go to tennis mennace, he has one of the most enviable collection of grommets on earth. I found st. vincent grommets for much cheaper from a guy on fleabay, I got his last 3. I'd love to get one more set of st.vincent grommets. They are extremely rare and I had no luck in a recent ad I posted on this forum, hopefully next time I see Anna (Kournikova!), I'll try and remember to ask her to get me a pair, the way Anna and I love, laugh and play in the sun, I always forget to ask her....

VGP
04-12-2009, 03:04 PM
$50?

I'd rather noodle with a recent Chinese set......

plasma
04-12-2009, 05:25 PM
I have an actual PS 85 used by Sampras, it was given to a friend by Paul Annacone. One of 2 prostock vintage racquets in the plasma collection. It's bumperless, too bad petes hands are bigger than mine...
(true, not a story like my Kournoikova fantasy)

VGP
04-21-2009, 08:12 PM
I stopped by the used sporting goods shop today....

I was excited to see they had a bumperless PS85....

I was hoping for a Chicago as it has the three thicker plastic throat grommets but it was lacking the gripsize sticker which would have had the recommended tension listed.

It's been used, but not too bad. Some grommets are cracked just due to age. I cleaned off the old head guard tape and the adhesive residue. It had an old Tournagrip that had been on for ages. It left a lot of residue as well, but underneath was the original leather on what feels like a #2 or #3 grip.....

The buttcap has mostly lost its color not from abuse, but by fading or rubbing, but I noticed that the code is GOQ.

Is it bad that I'm disappointed that it looks like a bumperless SV and not a Chicago?

.....either way not bad for $10.

cork_screw
04-21-2009, 10:11 PM
To me the taiwan feels a bit like a shrunken k90. It has that woody wobble feel to it. This is unlike the early china version, chicago or st. vincent which were all brick stiff, but total focus on sweet spot. The focus and energy that you rip through is amazing, especially on volleys. The current modern china has the most flex. It's like the flex of a rubber tire. It's hard if you hit it soft but the harder you swing the more it flexes. It feels brick solid, but if you're hitting against say a 5.0+ you'll feel the flex and it really grabs the ball and does some amazing things with it. My current favorite racquet in my lineup.

what are spec difs between the taiwan and china?

plasma
04-21-2009, 10:18 PM
Chicago is also the only one I don't have. You probably give to the needy and have good racquet Karma, hence your amazing find...continue to use your mojo power for good, don't be tempted by the darkside (sweat$hop).
http://i42.tinypic.com/2vi5gm0.jpg
dusting off an old treasure (found for pennies) and showing it tlc is just as magical as the moment when you find it!!!!
p.s. I understand your disappointment: Anna forgot to get my favorite cereal getting Corn Flakes instead and she's only allowing 20 minutes of Kournikova per night as she is preparing for a match...

VGP
04-22-2009, 07:18 AM
I don't know about good karma.....I think I'm just persistent.

These days I've been losing a bit of hope just due to time and the age of internet auctions. I also don't live in a tennis hotbed like some people in Florida and SoCal (in the US) where PS85s are still to be found at garage sales and thrift stores at higher frequency.

I've been finding it even more difficult just getting frames that were made ten years ago let alone the 20-25 year period for Chicagos and SVs.

Sure, if I'm willing to shell out the cash I could get pluck some off of e-bay, but I'm not wanting to pay "collector" prices. Of the three SVs I've gotten, I've averaged spending only $35 a frame. That's ironic because when I started with the PS85 it was in 1993 when I bought my Taiwanese frames new. Since then I've even paid new prices for recent Chinese (when they were sold at stores). I wish I was doing the thrift store/garage sale thing in the '90s..... I'm sure I could have been like drakulie and others that was getting them for $1 each.

As much as I love PS85s, I find I'm transitioning away from them and now I'm working on the kPS88. We'll see if I stay or if I return.......

plasma
04-22-2009, 11:46 AM
I am also transitioning away from the ps 85, to the txe (since its smaller,but still a players racquet; even though the feel is not as good). When I think of accuracy of performance, not level, but consistency of performance, actually in both categories, the ps 85 is elite. I cannot mention 5 other racquets at that level of acuity...maybe the ti 70, the fvp 90...??? maybe???? my china never let me down, I might come back..????

VGP
04-22-2009, 11:50 AM
I put a pink overgrip on it in tribute to Capriati and Krickstein! :)

plasma
04-22-2009, 12:27 PM
I forgot about that whole neon movement, the mere thought of it causes physical pain, one day I will own a tennis club, I will have security enforce a fairway or tournagrip rule. Violation of the rule could look like this....
http://i42.tinypic.com/11ccbxj.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVr1MEFYtG8
operator, this is Mr. R, VGP is using inappropriate grip on court 6, I need Armstrong and Gymrat on it immediately, Operator this is Mr. R, I need Mr. Happy at court 5.....tournagrip or fairway, that's all I ask...

VGP
04-22-2009, 12:46 PM
I've also got some chartreuse grips.....

If I were to play at your club then I'd have to leave it bare and bumperless like Edberg since I totally hate Tournagrip.

Is black allowed? I'll deck my PS85s in black and look nice and stealthy....

plasma
04-22-2009, 09:22 PM
Y'know, I think that my fantasy of having a tennis club with rigid rules was materialistic and shortsighted; it's been done. I could probably do more to benefit the community by going in the total opposite direction. JL2k is one of the biggest vintage collectors in the world and he barely seems to have time for these boards with his big tennis clubs. What I should do is open a clothing optional all women's tennis club, I don't discriminate VGP if you are a young lady, as you would have to be 18- 32 for this club, then you would be totally welcome....yeah I know what you're thinking,Plasma as the head coach, swingin his oversize on the court... no you got me all wrong, I might show up here and there but only to benefit the community, maybe help sweep the courts occasionally, keep the shower and steam room area clean and such...just tryin to help...

Mick
04-22-2009, 09:25 PM
I forgot about that whole neon movement, the mere thought of it causes physical pain, one day I will own a tennis club, I will have security enforce a fairway or tournagrip rule. Violation of the rule could look like this....
http://i42.tinypic.com/11ccbxj.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVr1MEFYtG8
operator, this is Mr. R, VGP is using inappropriate grip on court 6, I need Armstrong and Gymrat on it immediately, Operator this is Mr. R, I need Mr. Happy at court 5.....tournagrip or fairway, that's all I ask...

i like the line from that movie where deniro says there are three ways of doing things, the wrong way, the right way, and my way :)

plasma
04-22-2009, 09:48 PM
DeNiro is a brilliant actor, in his prime he was inspired. There was a russian guy named Stanislavski in 1900, he was sick of all the phony gesturing in theatre and created a style of acting based on realism, and transforming ones very identity into the character. It's very intense and authentic; it's called "Method Acting", Strassberg and others pioneered it later at the New School in New York in the 50's. Deniro, Pacino, Brando, the greatest and most authentic actors....method actors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrq96cW2BuY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMaTfAn7KAs
"listen you fhukkkers you screwheads, here is aman who would not take it anymore'...Imagine transforming yourself into such a devil, that's what method actors do, become the character, become the role, sacrifice their very soul for your benefit...
http://i40.tinypic.com/10861s2.jpg

khw72004
05-08-2009, 06:38 PM
Does any know know the difference between the PS 6.0 and the PS 6.0si?

psp2
05-08-2009, 10:45 PM
Does any know know the difference between the PS 6.0 and the PS 6.0si?

"S I" on the pj came on the most recent China versions.

psp2
05-08-2009, 10:46 PM
Here are some of my bumperless SV.

http://tinyurl.com/pffzl2

plasma
05-09-2009, 12:29 AM
just realized I have to take a month off from tennis to heal form a couple of body shots I got during a fun, profound, and highly intelligent yet brutal 8 round gym (boxing) battle. Might start up again using an sv strung at 48. It does everything well at that ridiculously low tension, except counterpunch 70 mph bombs. Similar to my opponent the other night (actually not true, he was a great counterpuncher and even more rare, a really good person. I'm the goofy kid at the gym, loveably clowning around and making everyone laugh, so what's in a person's heart is important to me).
The gym I assisted at just moved... so sad, I will miss the comradery and education sooo much. I trained at another back alley gym nearby over a decade ago. It was a bloody warrior camp where they beat our brains and souls in nightly. The lead instructor, a world champ was shot outside the gym. This last place I taught and trained at was so different; everyone had jobs, everyone was married or had a commited girlfriend, the type of guys that would never fight on the street, real folk...probably the best friends and times I've had in the last 20 years, white, black, asian, native American, all of us learning from this old humble thai master, just working as a team to be better in life, more peaceful , more humble, break legs a little cleaner, that's all...

sunmin77
05-15-2009, 10:50 AM
I just bought a couple of PS 6.0 85 from the famous auction site. The seller states that the inside of the racquet shows:

"string at 65-70 lbs.Weight 11.6-12.3 unstrung Balanced 1.0-1.5 in. headlight."
Also, the racquets appear to have a "Taiwan" sticker on the buttcap.

Is this normal? I am specifically referring to the "string at 65-70 lbs. portion. I thought that was only in the Chicago models and the later models changed to 55-65 and 50-60.

Can anybody please clear this up for me?

Thanks,

VGP
05-16-2009, 07:13 PM
Weird.

Buttcap replacements maybe?

I'd trust the stickers (and other hallmarks) before the buttcap since those are replaceable.....

VGP
05-16-2009, 08:09 PM
Lemme amend that, by stickers I meant the recommended tension and balance stickers inside the throat (although you're right about the tension range being off - since they're usually 10 lb ranges).

...and by hallmarks, the typical SV/Chicago red primer, squared grommet channels, bumperless plastic parts (if applicable), etc....

did you receive them yet?

Kemitak
05-18-2009, 07:59 PM
The big (immodest) question is: what did you pay for them?

MagPro
07-11-2009, 01:23 PM
i found a bumperless SV would a bumpered grommet set fit? I might break down and do the Mennace for $40. Would it change the balance? Or were the bumperless just more headlight?

Bud
07-11-2009, 01:35 PM
i found a bumperless SV would a bumpered grommet set fit? I might break down and do the Mennace for $40. Would it change the balance? Or were the bumperless just more headlight?

Is there something wrong with the current grommets?

tribunal4555
07-11-2009, 01:46 PM
Man, I wish Wilson kept making these. These are the best sticks I ever used, but I gave up their usage (still have them though) because I couldn't get new ones anymore...










































I really, really despise greedy big-name corporations. Another reason why I love my Boris Becker!

MagPro
07-11-2009, 03:50 PM
Is there something wrong with the current grommets?

Yeah they were pretty cracked up. Plus the head had a lot of scrapes that I wanted to cover up with a bumper. Will it work okay?

Bud
07-11-2009, 04:05 PM
Man, I wish Wilson kept making these. These are the best sticks I ever used, but I gave up their usage (still have them though) because I couldn't get new ones anymore...





I really, really despise greedy big-name corporations. Another reason why I love my Boris Becker!

The great white racquet... :oops:

Is there supposed to be a pic in this post? :confused:

Bud
07-11-2009, 04:06 PM
Yeah they were pretty cracked up. Plus the head had a lot of scrapes that I wanted to cover up with a bumper. Will it work okay?

I don't believe they will work... however, IIRC there were other Wilson 85 frames with PWS (and no bumper) that had the same drill pattern.

MagPro
07-13-2009, 08:13 PM
I don't believe they will work... however, IIRC there were other Wilson 85 frames with PWS (and no bumper) that had the same drill pattern.

So the drill patt. of a bumper and bumperless SV are diff? I thought all SVs were the same just eventually they started using bumpers??

ibii70
07-13-2009, 11:44 PM
I have one Prostaff85 with green and Black colour
:)

http://images.temppic.com/14-07-2009/images_vertis/1247553939_0.23531900.jpg (http://www.temppic.com/img.php?14-07-2009:1247553939_0.23531900.jpg)

http://images.temppic.com/14-07-2009/images_vertis/1247553939_0.92659200.jpg (http://www.temppic.com/img.php?14-07-2009:1247553939_0.92659200.jpg)

plasma
07-14-2009, 01:21 AM
I want that green prostaff so badly!!! I looooove the cosmetics. I play with the ps 85 but got sick of the cosmetics and tried the 7.0 85...traditional 6.0 was better....

jimbo333
07-14-2009, 03:03 PM
I want that green prostaff so badly!!! I looooove the cosmetics. I play with the ps 85 but got sick of the cosmetics and tried the 7.0 85...traditional 6.0 was better....

Stop boasting about the 7.0 85:)

(Just put photo of it up here please)

rony67
08-20-2009, 01:52 PM
Being a fan of the PS85, I recently bought two of these beauties for my seven-year-old kid. His first REAL racquet. He think its cool that we use the same racquet when we practise together...

http://i25.tinypic.com/2e0mu0o.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/6e3sif.jpg

VGP
08-20-2009, 02:18 PM
Way Cool Jr.

projoe
08-20-2009, 02:21 PM
that is a nice junior racket. I know wilson did the classic pro staff in the jnr version but havent seen that before.

Keifers
08-20-2009, 02:34 PM
That's very nifty... I've never seen a junior PS85 before.

Thanks for posting the pic and telling us about hitting with your son. :):cool:

nyc
08-21-2009, 09:56 AM
...........................

audioaffliction
08-26-2009, 10:50 AM
Man, I just love this racquet. I pretty much learned how to play tennis on a ProStaff back in the '80s. I'm trying to switch to the K90, but it's just not the same. I still have 4 of them: One SV and 3 that were later "Chiao Ta" examples. Does anyone know if the Chiao Ta models were China or Taiwan?

FedererClone
08-26-2009, 02:29 PM
Man, I just love this racquet. I pretty much learned how to play tennis on a ProStaff back in the '80s. I'm trying to switch to the K90, but it's just not the same. I still have 4 of them: One SV and 3 that were later "Chiao Ta" examples. Does anyone know if the Chiao Ta models were China or Taiwan?

can you discuss your experiences with the other frames compared to the st vincent? I have had a few 6.0s but never managed to nab a st v...

audioaffliction
08-26-2009, 03:53 PM
I'm not as picky when it comes to the differences between the various incarnations of these frames. That said, the SVs (I've had a few since the '80s) do feel more solid and substantial. The swing weight also feels a tad bit higher in the SVs. There's a bit more flex in my two Chiao Tas. Don't know about the third Chiao Ta as it's still wrapped in plastic.

The funny thing is, ALL of the ProStaffs I've encountered have had the same weaknesses, with cracks showing up in the same places at 7 and 5 o'clock along the grommets. The very first ProStaff I had, from 1987, also had this issue and eventually caved in. This despite the fact that I've never really gone over 60 lbs. in tension.

psp2
08-26-2009, 09:52 PM
Man, I just love this racquet. I pretty much learned how to play tennis on a ProStaff back in the '80s. I'm trying to switch to the K90, but it's just not the same. I still have 4 of them: One SV and 3 that were later "Chiao Ta" examples. Does anyone know if the Chiao Ta models were China or Taiwan?

Chiao Ta models are China.

audioaffliction
08-26-2009, 11:46 PM
Chiao Ta models are China.

Thought so. Thanks for the confirmation!

FedererClone
08-27-2009, 08:21 AM
The funny thing is, ALL of the ProStaffs I've encountered have had the same weaknesses, with cracks showing up in the same places at 7 and 5 o'clock along the grommets. The very first ProStaff I had, from 1987, also had this issue and eventually caved in. This despite the fact that I've never really gone over 60 lbs. in tension.

Interesting... anyone else have this issue?

audioaffliction
08-28-2009, 12:42 AM
I just scored another ProStaff to add to my stockpile. I don't expect it to be an SV and is probably one of the Taiwan models. We'll see when it shows up next week.

ac3111
08-28-2009, 05:25 AM
Mates, I found a few used PS 85 to buy. The thing is that one is St Vincent's and way too expensive but the other one made in China (Chinese butt code GKO) and a lot more affordable.
I had the impression that the PS 85 were not manufactured in China. The chinese one is yellow beneath the grip -it is sold gripless actually- so I think it is genuine.
What I'd like to ask is whether there are differences between St Vincent's and Chinese models in ways of play or in other aspects...
The difference in price is about 200 us dollars.

stevewcosta
08-28-2009, 06:31 AM
Well, I'll kick off a thread discussing my favorite (and now officially discontinued) frame, the Wilson PS85.

I hope fellow PS85 lovers will chime in and hopefully keep the discussion healthy!

When are we going to lobby TW to help bring this back into production?Obviously, Wilson won't listen to a consumer request. I will buy 4 or 5 immediately.

audioaffliction
08-28-2009, 10:47 AM
Mates, I found a few used PS 85 to buy. The thing is that one is St Vincent's and way too expensive but the other one made in China (Chinese butt code GKO) and a lot more affordable.
I had the impression that the PS 85 were not manufactured in China. The chinese one is yellow beneath the grip -it is sold gripless actually- so I think it is genuine.
What I'd like to ask is whether there are differences between St Vincent's and Chinese models in ways of play or in other aspects...
The difference in price is about 200 us dollars.

This has been discussed quite a bit--including in this thread. Opinions vary about how different the Chinese models are from the SVs. There are also different vintages of the Chinese/Taiwanese models. My opinion is that while the SVs are nice, the price difference is completely crazy because of collectors. I personally feel the SVs feel a little bit more solid and tend to swing just a tad heavier from the later Chinese models.

ac3111
08-28-2009, 11:15 AM
Thanks a lot...

ac3111
08-28-2009, 11:24 AM
I would like also to ask how can you tell a PS 85 is ST Vincent's or chinese model. Is it from the butt code?

VGP
08-28-2009, 11:44 AM
My opinion is that while the SVs are nice, the price difference is completely crazy because of collectors.

True.

It's now one of those graphite rackets (if not the racket) that has all the elements for legendary (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=281968) status.

Combining my criteria (from the linked thread):

- longevity in availability (more than 2 years)
- pro association (several pros with varied styles)
- establishment or confirmation of technological benchmark
- acceptance in the amateur ranks

The St. Vincent isn't a rare racket. Tons were made for the decade or so it was around. Probably the Taiwanese and early Chinese have fewer available. It's not rarity that's driving up the prices, it's the hype.

The 'hype' surrounding the St. Vincent isn't total poppycock. It is really a good racket. It's just not (for me) worth paying more for them....

...I probably say that because I've got a few that I acquired without paying through the nose. But mine aren't pristine examples.

When are we going to lobby TW to help bring this back into production?Obviously, Wilson won't listen to a consumer request. I will buy 4 or 5 immediately.

Someone asked this question in the "Ask TW" forum and the reply was that Wilson's invested a lot in the kPS88. So much so that there's no intention to make more PS85s at this time......

I just scored another ProStaff to add to my stockpile. I don't expect it to be an SV and is probably one of the Taiwan models. We'll see when it shows up next week.

Curious to see which one you'll get....

dlesser13
08-28-2009, 01:57 PM
Just scored a near mint kramer pro staff today for about 15 bucks. It's still got the original grip and all the stickers and the frame and bumper guards are almost immaculate. Quite a find for 15 bucks.

VGP
08-28-2009, 02:22 PM
^^^^ mind sharing some pics?

dlesser13
08-28-2009, 02:43 PM
I would have, but my camera is currently at my college place and I'm home for the weekend, but I'll see what I can do. By the way. not the first kramer steal that I have come across. A few months back I happened to find a pretty good kramer for 10 bucks on craigslist.

audioaffliction
08-28-2009, 03:38 PM
I'm curious to know where in the country you guys are finding deals on ProStaffs. To date, I've only ever stumbled across one "on the street" so to speak, and that was a largehead 110. I do check Goodwill and Salvation Army stores but have never come across any.

pshulam
08-28-2009, 06:05 PM
I'm curious to know where in the country you guys are finding deals on ProStaffs. To date, I've only ever stumbled across one "on the street" so to speak, and that was a largehead 110. I do check Goodwill and Salvation Army stores but have never come across any.

My sentiment is the same - so many posters claim that they have found PS85, PC600, Dunlop MAX 200G, and other famous classics from thrift stores for a friction of the cost, i.e, $2 to $20. I look at Craiglist at least three times a week. I visit Goodwill and other thrift stores on a weekly basis. I stop by sport stores that sell used equipment. Well, so far --- no luck!!!!

I must be living in the wrong area. May be I should move to the West Coast or East Coast.

ac3111
08-28-2009, 06:58 PM
I feel that 300 us dollars for a St Vincent's PS 85 may be too much.
But in any case I would like to ask a few things about the PS 85.
First of all if I am not wrong the PS 85 comes from the age and time of S&V -midsize head, thin neck. I am wondering though why is not 18 x 20 the string pattern. I mean the 18 x 20 would not provide more feel and control for S&V? Or the 16 x 18 is it to compensate the loss of power due to the small headsize and the thin neck?

Another question is that if you don't dictate your opponent's game with S&V can someone with such racquet defend against counterpunchers, pushers and baseliners?

And a last one if you had it strung with natural gut what tension would you go? I have Tonic ball feel (16g) at 57 lbs in my K 6.1 95 18 x20 and 54 on my Pro Staff Rok 93.

VGP
08-29-2009, 08:21 AM
My sentiment is the same - so many posters claim that they have found PS85, PC600, Dunlop MAX 200G, and other famous classics from thrift stores for a friction of the cost, i.e, $2 to $20. I look at Craiglist at least three times a week. I visit Goodwill and other thrift stores on a weekly basis. I stop by sport stores that sell used equipment. Well, so far --- no luck!!!!

I must be living in the wrong area. May be I should move to the West Coast or East Coast.

A fellow poster here drakulie says that he's been able to pickup PS85s at garage sales for $1. He lives in south Florida. Another poster gsquicksilver says that he's picked up a few cheap. He lives in SoCal.

Well, I don't live on the east or west coast. But I've picked up a couple for $5 and $10......other than the ones I bought new (when available). Keep looking you might get lucky. I'm still on the lookout for a Dunlop Max200g. I still don't want to pay collector's prices.


I feel that 300 us dollars for a St Vincent's PS 85 may be too much.
But in any case I would like to ask a few things about the PS 85.
First of all if I am not wrong the PS 85 comes from the age and time of S&V -midsize head, thin neck. I am wondering though why is not 18 x 20 the string pattern. I mean the 18 x 20 would not provide more feel and control for S&V? Or the 16 x 18 is it to compensate the loss of power due to the small headsize and the thin neck?

Another question is that if you don't dictate your opponent's game with S&V can someone with such racquet defend against counterpunchers, pushers and baseliners?

And a last one if you had it strung with natural gut what tension would you go? I have Tonic ball feel (16g) at 57 lbs in my K 6.1 95 18 x20 and 54 on my Pro Staff Rok 93.

I find your suggestion interesting because it's totally a hindsight point of view. The PS85 was advertised (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNFVnNUy4Fo) as being light and powerful. The head size was big at the time.

The design (with the input of Jimmy Connors) took off, if I had to guess is because of the more open string pattern allowing players to impart more spin. This is compared to wooden rackets. As for control for S&V, I assume you're focusing on the V, but I think the spin you can generate with the PS85 works perfectly for the S to set up a great V....... (i.e. Edberg and Sampras as key examples.)

dlesser13
08-29-2009, 10:51 AM
Got some pics of the new kramer staff i scored. Bear with me on the quality, taken with my old camera. Amazing how technology evolves in such little time.
http://img41.imageshack.us/i/picture432v.jpg/
http://img40.imageshack.us/i/picture431c.jpg/
http://img36.imageshack.us/i/picture425.jpg/
http://img195.imageshack.us/i/picture426h.jpg/
http://img36.imageshack.us/i/picture427n.jpg/
http://img269.imageshack.us/i/picture420a.jpg/

I feel kinda like that golden corral guy.
"I would like a mint jack kramer staff, case, and all the stickers please"
"No problem" says the waiter
"All for around 10 bucks"
"PROBLEM!"

Why don't my pictures ever show up?!?!?

BigServer1
08-29-2009, 01:08 PM
I've got a few PS 85s, some that are pretty interesting. I have a bumperless PS85 with a Classic 6.1 PJ and a small "J. Courier" sticker on the side. I also have another bumperless original "Midsize" with the initials A.K on a sticker on the buttcap.

VGP, I've got a couple in particular that I'd be interested in getting your thoughts on...They are both just molded palletes with no buttcaps, but one in particular looks like it fits the bill of a Chicago prostaff (4-5/8 L5 - String at 65-70 sticker, matte finish PJ, no BG, just grommets, etc.), but I would like your input. I'll try and post some pictures when I get home.

VGP
08-29-2009, 02:43 PM
BigServer1 - sounds like you've got some interesting frames.

If the first two you describe were prepared for pros, could it be that the first one was for Jim Courier around 1992 where they were trying to push the Classic 6.1 not just to Edberg? And could the A.K. be for Aaron Krickstein?

The others could be some sort of handle customization on a Chicago or early SV - and any other info on the other? Buttcaps can be an identifier, but when there's not one it's harder to call........

BigServer1
08-29-2009, 03:11 PM
BigServer1 - sounds like you've got some interesting frames.

If the first two you describe were prepared for pros, could it be that the first one was for Jim Courier around 1992 where they were trying to push the Classic 6.1 not just to Edberg? And could the A.K. be for Aaron Krickstein?

The others could be some sort of handle customization on a Chicago or early SV - and any other info on the other? Buttcaps can be an identifier, but when there's not one it's harder to call........

Yes...The 6.1 PJ was a Courier frame, when Sampras had the marketing taken care of for the 6.0 85, so they switched Courier to the Classic PJ. The A.K frame was a Krickstein, though I cannot say with authority whether these frames were actually used, or if they were just extras that never got played with.

I also have what has been described to me as a "Sampras reference frame". Sampras experimented with some different setups, and when he found one that was perfect for him, they set aside that frame and matched every other frame to it. I have one (another 6.1 classic PJ, strangely enough) that has VS 17 with the Red "W" stencil and a black Babolat stencil (it's cut out, but still in the frame, so you can see the remnants of the stencil), a black cable grommet dampener, all the lead at 3&9, tournagrip and the fairway grip wrapped low around the buttcap to round it out. I can take a picture of that one as well..

Btw, one of the random PS85s in question has a tiny little paint chip with red primer showing through. The other one doesn't have any distinct markings, but they were both custom molds with no buttcaps...I'll post some pictures tonight.

VGP
08-29-2009, 03:47 PM
Well, I must say that you've got a much more interesting PS85 collection than I'll ever have.

Can't wait to see some pics.

quest01
08-29-2009, 03:55 PM
The PS85 is a good racquet but its too demanding for me.(I'm only a 4.0 while this racquet is for 5.0's or higher.) Control serving was the best part about this demanding stick but hitting a 2 handed backhand was a nightmare. The PS85 is a great racquet if its in the hands of the right player, at least someone 5.0 or higher are the only people who could handle its full effects. You need to have fighter pilot hand eye coordination to use the PS85 effectively, its not for the faint of heart.

BigServer1
08-29-2009, 08:56 PM
Alright...Here are some pictures of my collection. I'll start with the interesting stuff.

Sampras frame: You can see the stencils, though they're light. Sampras wanted the red W to be very light, go figure. Notice the 6.1 classic PJ, lead work and grip.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/jklatz/SNV31054.jpg?t=1251604409

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/jklatz/SNV31056.jpg?t=1251604510

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/jklatz/SNV31075.jpg?t=1251604538

BigServer1
08-29-2009, 08:57 PM
Here is the Courier frame:

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/jklatz/SNV31064.jpg?t=1251604597

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/jklatz/SNV31067.jpg?t=1251604633

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/jklatz/SNV31068.jpg?t=1251604665

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/jklatz/SNV31069.jpg?t=1251604702

BigServer1
08-29-2009, 09:02 PM
Aaron Krickstein:

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/jklatz/SNV31061.jpg?t=1251604736

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/jklatz/SNV31063.jpg?t=1251604760


Here is a picture of all 7 of the frames that I have, VGP, I'm going to take some pictures of the two specific PS85s (the ones without grips/buttcaps in the this photo), to see if you have any ideas what they might be.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/jklatz/SNV31071.jpg?t=1251604806

audioaffliction
08-30-2009, 12:30 AM
The PS85 is a good racquet but its too demanding for me.(I'm only a 4.0 while this racquet is for 5.0's or higher.) Control serving was the best part about this demanding stick but hitting a 2 handed backhand was a nightmare. The PS85 is a great racquet if its in the hands of the right player, at least someone 5.0 or higher are the only people who could handle its full effects. You need to have fighter pilot hand eye coordination to use the PS85 effectively, its not for the faint of heart.

No disrespect intended, but I have to disagree. I essentially learned how to play tennis on a ProStaff, back when I was about 13. I can assure you that I'm not especially gifted in the fighter pilot skills department! Now, it's true that the PS85 is more demanding compared to a lot of today's modern frames. My take on it is that the modern frames allow you to get away with a less than perfect technique--but I think this simply reinforces bad habits because you can be lazy with your technique and still hit a pretty good looking shot. Every time I try to switch a more modern frame, I find my game gradually deteriorates.

Bottom line: Demanding? Yes, but I don't think you need to be a 5.0 or any specific rating to use the PS85.

Bud
08-30-2009, 03:21 PM
Here is a picture of all 7 of the frames that I have, VGP, I'm going to take some pictures of the two specific PS85s (the ones without grips/buttcaps in the this photo), to see if you have any ideas what they might be.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/jklatz/SNV31071.jpg?t=1251604806

The PS on the far left appears to have a smaller headsize than the rest of the 85's pictured. Is that my imagination?

The second from the left has an extended/customized pallet for a 2HBH player who wanted to maintain the standard 27" length... as it's molded further up the throat. If it was a hairpin, it would appear as normal except for added length at the butt cap. Who was this racquet created for... a woman player like Chris Evert?

BigServer1
08-30-2009, 03:56 PM
The PS on the far left appears to have a smaller headsize than the rest of the 85's pictured. Is that my imagination?

The second from the left has an extended/customized pallet for a 2HBH player who wanted to maintain the standard 27" length... as it's molded further up the throat. If it was a hairpin, it would appear as normal except for added length at the butt cap. Who was this racquet created for... a woman player like Chris Evert?

In regards to the first question, I just think that's the angle of the photo...I'm pretty sure that the headsize is identical to the others...

The other ungripped frame does indeed have a customized pallet, but I'm not entirely sure if it was created specifically for someone, or if it was simply a customization mistake.

VGP
08-30-2009, 06:31 PM
Thanks for the photos BigServer1.

Very interesting frames. Your Sampras frame is done up just like what Greg Raven (fellow TTW poster and MRT) has posted (http://homepage.mac.com/gregraven/tennis/PhotoAlbum21.html) on his website. The lead work and rounded buttcap are very very similar.

Wilson seemed to be pushing the PSC6.1 pretty hard around 1991-1992. I remember attending a legends event in Cincinnati and Ken Rosewall was sporting the frames too. I can see why they would try and get the pjs out to Courier, Sampras and Edberg. Funny that Edberg only used it around 1991, but by '92 he had gone back to the original cosmetics.

The AK is interesting too. I was watching the broadcast of the Connors-Krickstein USO 1991 match and Krickstein was using blacked out PS85s (supposedly obtained from Sampras), but he's got black color on thte buttcap. Much like the one you show in your photos.

Interesting to see an extended-length pallet on an original PS85.....kinda like how Courier seems to be using a retail-setup N90 these days..........

BigServer1
08-30-2009, 08:35 PM
Thanks for the photos BigServer1.

Very interesting frames. Your Sampras frame is done up just like what Greg Raven (fellow TTW poster and MRT) has posted (http://homepage.mac.com/gregraven/tennis/PhotoAlbum21.html) on his website. The lead work and rounded buttcap are very very similar.

Yeah, the Sampras frame is pretty cool...I wish that the strings were in tact, because the stencil is definitely discernible, but not as much as if the strings were still fully in. The most amazing thing about that frame is the sheer weight of it...It's flipping heavy, and I can't imagine playing with it for 30 minutes, let alone 4 hours.

Wilson seemed to be pushing the PSC6.1 pretty hard around 1991-1992. I remember attending a legends event in Cincinnati and Ken Rosewall was sporting the frames too. I can see why they would try and get the pjs out to Courier, Sampras and Edberg. Funny that Edberg only used it around 1991, but by '92 he had gone back to the original cosmetics.

Yeah I think Courier stuck with that PJ the longest, being their main endorser after Edberg went back to the original cosmetics. It's interesting because I never liked the looks of the 6.1 Classic 95, but I am quite fond of the matte finish PJ that is on the Courier frame.

The AK is interesting too. I was watching the broadcast of the Connors-Krickstein USO 1991 match and Krickstein was using blacked out PS85s (supposedly obtained from Sampras), but he's got black color on thte buttcap. Much like the one you show in your photos.

Interesting to see an extended-length pallet on an original PS85.....kinda like how Courier seems to be using a retail-setup N90 these days..........

I know that Krickstein used a blacked out PS85 for a while, but I'm not entirely certain if he ever played with PS85s with the actual cosmetic. This frame has been strung once but quite possibly never played with or only played with once or twice. It could have been a playtest frame or something else, I just know that A.K sticker on the bottom is interesting, and definitely served it's purpose to cover up the W on the buttcap.

It's amazing...The Courier and Krickstein frames are in absolutely stunning condition, even though they're both 15+ years old.

The extended length pallet frame is an interesting one...It's a 27" frame, but the pallet is so long that it covers up the "graphite/kevlar" mark on the base of the throat. It's also blacked out in the throat, with no stickers or anything. The one with the shorter pallet has the L5 65-70 pound sticker, bigger (taller) grommets in the throat and a tiny little paint chip with red primer showing through...It makes me think that it could be a Chicago PS85, which would be pretty incredible...I was thinking it was a St. Vincent, so obviously I'd be happy either way.

VGP
08-30-2009, 09:22 PM
Yeah, the Sampras frame is pretty cool...I wish that the strings were in tact, because the stencil is definitely discernible, but not as much as if the strings were still fully in. The most amazing thing about that frame is the sheer weight of it...It's flipping heavy, and I can't imagine playing with it for 30 minutes, let alone 4 hours.

Since the strings are still in it, you could still get weight and balance measurements. Grip size too. Curious to see how well they match up to Greg Raven's Sampras frame.

I doubt that an all gut job would have survived this long. Especially if it were done up for Sampras at his tension. I saw a photo of one of Sampras' rackets in the Wimbledon museum and it had a couple of mains broken.

I saw one of Edberg's PS85s at the International Tennis Hall of Fame and its strings had broken too......

I know that Krickstein used a blacked out PS85 for a while, but I'm not entirely certain if he ever played with PS85s with the actual cosmetic. This frame has been strung once but quite possibly never played with or only played with once or twice. It could have been a playtest frame or something else, I just know that A.K sticker on the bottom is interesting, and definitely served it's purpose to cover up the W on the buttcap.

It's amazing...The Courier and Krickstein frames are in absolutely stunning condition, even though they're both 15+ years old.


Yeah, Krickstein I think was contracted with Yonex for a lot of his career.....

I really like your examples of paintjobs. Or any for that matter. I just find the attempts of deception in advertising really interesting. Good to see yours are in such great shape.

The extended length pallet frame is an interesting one...It's a 27" frame, but the pallet is so long that it covers up the "graphite/kevlar" mark on the base of the throat. It's also blacked out in the throat, with no stickers or anything. The one with the shorter pallet has the L5 65-70 pound sticker, bigger (taller) grommets in the throat and a tiny little paint chip with red primer showing through...It makes me think that it could be a Chicago PS85, which would be pretty incredible...I was thinking it was a St. Vincent, so obviously I'd be happy either way.

Well, without the buttcap it's hard to be definitive. Unless there's something hidden under the pallet that's covered up during manufacturing. It's definitely a Chicago or an early St. Vincent.

I'm sure the purist collectors might not find them as desireable because they don't have grips or buttcaps. Or the one with the long pallet is "messed up" because it extends more up the throat.

I for one find your collection very interesting. Not your run of the mill off the store rack kind of stuff.

Thanks for sharing!

BigServer1
08-30-2009, 10:23 PM
Since the strings are still in it, you could still get weight and balance measurements. Grip size too. Curious to see how well they match up to Greg Raven's Sampras frame.

I doubt that an all gut job would have survived this long. Especially if it were done up for Sampras at his tension. I saw a photo of one of Sampras' rackets in the Wimbledon museum and it had a couple of mains broken.

I saw one of Edberg's PS85s at the International Tennis Hall of Fame and its strings had broken too......

It was definitely done at his tension, you know it was tight because some of the black babolat stencil is 2/3rds of the way up the string bed...When those strings broke, they were so tight that the broken strings moved a lot...The grip size is the same as the Raven frame I'm sure...It feels like a 5/8 with an overgrip, not super huge big, but not small by any means.


Well, without the buttcap it's hard to be definitive. Unless there's something hidden under the pallet that's covered up during manufacturing. It's definitely a Chicago or an early St. Vincent.

I'm sure the purist collectors might not find them as desireable because they don't have grips or buttcaps. Or the one with the long pallet is "messed up" because it extends more up the throat.

I for one find your collection very interesting. Not your run of the mill off the store rack kind of stuff.

Thanks for sharing!

Yeah I think it's interesting...I also love the PJs and the deception...It's nice to know that it's been going on for decades...Luckily I'm not looking to sell any of these frames, so I'm just happy to have a cool, random collection of them. Thanks for the feedback and input.

audioaffliction
08-31-2009, 10:43 AM
I do believe that Krickstein played with the original cosmetic PS85 without the blacked out frame. He used one against Jimmy Connors at the '91 U.S. Open but without a Wilson stencil.

audioaffliction
08-31-2009, 07:55 PM
Hmm... interesting PS85 on the flea bay. I've never seen these cosmetics before. Is this a Japan-only cosmetic variant?

http://tiny.cc/kwbPA

I'm not affiliated in any way with the seller.

VGP
09-01-2009, 01:53 PM
I think you're right in it being a PS85 for Japanese release.....

audioaffliction
09-01-2009, 02:09 PM
I think you're right in it being a PS85 for Japanese release.....

Someone should add it to the PS85 Wiki page.

As for the PS85 that I picked up this week, it appears to be a Taiwan model. It's got the grey primer I think--hard to tell because the racquet's actually not very banged up at all. And it's got the "Syn Guy" recommendation. Also came with a BP, white buttcap, and original Fairway grip. The case is vented in the grip area. Looking forward to hitting with it to see how it compares to my SV and Chinese models.

VGP
09-01-2009, 03:22 PM
I actually prefer the Taiwanese over the SV and Chinese models.

The ones I have are heavy and harsh. Just the way I like it.

There are a few "models" missing from the wiki page. The Tour DB, the 2000 edition, the blue and green 6.0 "dual taper" paintjob Pete Sampras Taiwanese frame.....

psp2
09-02-2009, 12:23 AM
Someone should add it to the PS85 Wiki page.

As for the PS85 that I picked up this week, it appears to be a Taiwan model. It's got the grey primer I think--hard to tell because the racquet's actually not very banged up at all. And it's got the "Syn Guy" recommendation. Also came with a BP, white buttcap, and original Fairway grip. The case is vented in the grip area. Looking forward to hitting with it to see how it compares to my SV and Chinese models.

Majority of the Taiwanese PS85 I've had and/or have seen have buttcap codes that begin with an "S" (SEX, SDO, SEO, etc.)

VGP
09-02-2009, 05:43 AM
Apart from the different letter and location of the buttcap codes of the Taiwanese model, audioaffliction's "syn gut" recommendation in the throat is definitely a Taiwanese characteristic. If you compare the tone of the pinstripes of his frame with a SV or with an early Taiwan, you'd probably see that they are darker in hue.

The earlier Taiwanese PS85s looks very similar to the SV. But no red primer and the use of the "Wilson Quality" hologram sticker with the serial number.....and a glossier finish... The decals are the same as a late SV.

raygo
09-03-2009, 05:30 PM
I think you're right in it being a PS85 for Japanese release.....

It is, but recently discontinued (within the last year). I'll add info to the wiki page.

VGP
09-04-2009, 04:55 AM
Thanks for including the info, raygo.

I noticed your location. You would know what's on the racks in Japan.

stevewcosta
09-04-2009, 12:58 PM
Someone asked this question in the "Ask TW" forum and the reply was that Wilson's invested a lot in the kPS88. So much so that there's no intention to make more PS85s at this time......


I asked the question. We can't let their answer be the end of it can we? The K90 and KPS88 are not worthy replacements. Let's get the 85 back in production for a few more runs! Can't believe I didn't stock up on these. I have purchased 48 new reacquets in the past 10 yrs. and sold most of them except for my 3 6.0s. Wish I had 48 6.0s! DAMN!

VGP
09-04-2009, 02:56 PM
I assume you mean the most recent Chinese frames....

As big a fan of the Wilson Pro Staff Midsize as I am, the recent Wilson Pro Staff 6.0 85s aren't my favorite.

Ripper014
09-04-2009, 04:49 PM
I just checked the wiki page and there is no mention of Jimmy Connors... my memory may not be what it once was... but I thought this frame was originally designed for both Jimmy Connors and Chris Evert.

I am pretty sure if you watch the Semi-finals of the 1984 US Open he is using it against John McEnroe in the original Super Saturday (last match of the day).

VGP
09-04-2009, 04:58 PM
I haven't looked at the wiki page lately, but I put a whole section on notable professional players of which the PS85 is associated.

Connors and Evert were definitely included.

jimbo333
09-04-2009, 05:09 PM
Well the original PS85 was certainly designed with Connors in mind!

But he apparently used a different version of the PS85, basically a smaller version, apparently with Boron in the layup. Now this hasn't actually been 100% confirmed, but then neither has the fact that man has walked on the moon, and I know which I think is more in important to find out:)

Come on, someone must know the truth about this Connors PS???

audioaffliction
09-04-2009, 08:22 PM
Someone asked this question in the "Ask TW" forum and the reply was that Wilson's invested a lot in the kPS88. So much so that there's no intention to make more PS85s at this time......


I asked the question. We can't let their answer be the end of it can we? The K90 and KPS88 are not worthy replacements. Let's get the 85 back in production for a few more runs! Can't believe I didn't stock up on these. I have purchased 48 new reacquets in the past 10 yrs. and sold most of them except for my 3 6.0s. Wish I had 48 6.0s! DAMN!

I would totally stock up on them as well. Yes, even the recent Chinese ones--I like the slightly more flexy feel that they have.

morten
09-05-2009, 01:34 AM
Someone asked this question in the "Ask TW" forum and the reply was that Wilson's invested a lot in the kPS88. So much so that there's no intention to make more PS85s at this time......


I asked the question. We can't let their answer be the end of it can we? The K90 and KPS88 are not worthy replacements. Let's get the 85 back in production for a few more runs! Can't believe I didn't stock up on these. I have purchased 48 new reacquets in the past 10 yrs. and sold most of them except for my 3 6.0s. Wish I had 48 6.0s! DAMN!

+1 ....... :(

raygo
09-07-2009, 02:06 AM
I assume you mean the most recent Chinese frames....

As big a fan of the Wilson Pro Staff Midsize as I am, the recent Wilson Pro Staff 6.0 85s aren't my favorite.

+1. I didn't know what I was missing until I got a hold of a SV...the new 6.0's feel like hollow knockoffs. Not sure if it's a SV thing, or maybe racquets were just better made back then. Even the case screamed quality. I can't play with anything else now.

Tennis Man
09-07-2009, 05:21 AM
+1. I didn't know what I was missing until I got a hold of a SV...the new 6.0's feel like hollow knockoffs. Not sure if it's a SV thing, or maybe racquets were just better made back then. Even the case screamed quality. I can't play with anything else now.

+1 ...........

MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER
10-03-2009, 11:19 AM
I want to sincerely thank all the posters on this thread for the time and expertise involved.

Based on what description(s) I have read I figure I found a "CHICAGO" PS85
at the Goodwill yesterday- The blue overgrip fell apart like dust revealing the spotless FAIRWAY leather... I don't think it was ever really played much but there must have been headguard/tape since this racket has NO scratches,rashes, nothing- Nice spotless matching single cover with strap.
Solid black strings "oddly" simply wound is the last mystery-
This one seems to have had the "taper" extend further up and someone "squared" it off.
Price? $5.00
Who said "Harley Davidsons' in the widow's barn" are the only finds?

VGP
10-04-2009, 07:15 PM
Cool. Thanks for sharing. If you're willing, sharing pics would be great!

jimbo333
10-05-2009, 04:32 AM
I want to sincerely thank all the posters on this thread for the time and expertise involved.

Based on what description(s) I have read I figure I found a "CHICAGO" PS85
at the Goodwill yesterday- The blue overgrip fell apart like dust revealing the spotless FAIRWAY leather... I don't think it was ever really played much but there must have been headguard/tape since this racket has NO scratches,rashes, nothing- Nice spotless matching single cover with strap.
Solid black strings "oddly" simply wound is the last mystery-
This one seems to have had the "taper" extend further up and someone "squared" it off.
Price? $5.00
Who said "Harley Davidsons' in the widow's barn" are the only finds?

Yeah, come on, let's see a photo of it please?

MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER
10-06-2009, 04:23 PM
Standby, just installed a new computer with "vista" and now trying to snake/ pirate copy of OFFICE on to same.

However, being an Eagle scout who doesn't need to make up tales- I can tell you it will sure be seen on the "BAY" when I can download photos. It looks exactly like the poster's collection photo (farthest left in collection) only with fairway leather grip.

Again my thanks for running down so much history and clairifying distinctive differences.

What rare Jimmy Conners rackets are you looking for? Understand out here in TENNIS MECCA (Phoenix/Tucson) I run into a lot of rackets- The 2000s and 3000s in perfect shape just fall from the trees, come across 2-3 with covers every week.

jimbo333
10-06-2009, 04:55 PM
I'm definitely looking for a T5000, in perfect condition. Am finding this one difficult to find as it should have a plastic dampner sticking out of buttcap, and most of the time dampner isn't there!

I'm also after any signature Connors Estusa's, they are difficult to find in the UK:)

MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER
10-10-2009, 11:41 AM
I'm on it... Next week headed up to the Phoenican/Scottsdale and I'll root around in the 2nd hand bins.

I have a freind who is "into" same kind of deal only with (musical) drums-Pick them up for nothing and sell them to "fans-collectors"
You have to watch out though... Anyone want any PERFECT wood "Chrisy Everett." Wilsons?

Virginia
10-10-2009, 01:30 PM
Didn't the dampener thingy crumble away over time, jimbo?

jimbo333
10-12-2009, 04:26 PM
Didn't the dampener thingy crumble away over time, jimbo?

No, not if the racquet was well looked after:)

audioaffliction
10-12-2009, 10:40 PM
Heads-up everyone. If you don't mind the last made in China PS85s, it appears that TW is clearing out their old demo stock. They can be found in the Used section. Just ordered two myself.

Virginia
10-13-2009, 11:57 AM
Now that I've checked, it is the TX6000, but I bought it thinking it was the T-6000. Not to worry, I'm sure I'll be very happy with it once it arrives. It will be interesting to compare it with the others.

jimbo333
10-13-2009, 12:01 PM
Now that I've checked, it is the TX6000, but I bought it thinking it was the T-6000. Not to worry, I'm sure I'll be very happy with it once it arrives. It will be interesting to compare it with the others.

TX6000 is one of the best of the T-series:)

Do you have a C1-Jimmy Connors yet?

Virginia
10-13-2009, 04:45 PM
TX6000 is one of the best of the T-series:)

Do you have a C1-Jimmy Connors yet?
I've not heard of that one - tell me more. I have a mint Prince Mono though (I think he still plays with that).

jimbo333
10-13-2009, 04:56 PM
I've not heard of that one - tell me more. I have a mint Prince Mono though (I think he still plays with that).

Well don't let Maureen get her hands on it:)

I've mentioned the C1-Jimmy Connors before I think, maybe:shock:

It's my favourite metal Wilson T-series racquet. It is very similar to the T3000, with the metal crossbar, the graphics and headcover are in green!

Virginia
10-13-2009, 05:20 PM
You may have mentioned it, jimbo, I don't recall.

Speaking of Maureen, I watched her play today and she wields that Mono like it's a frying pan! After each stroke, she waves it around as though she's going to swot a fly or make a pancake or something! LOL

jimbo333
10-14-2009, 07:06 PM
You may have mentioned it, jimbo, I don't recall.

Speaking of Maureen, I watched her play today and she wields that Mono like it's a frying pan! After each stroke, she waves it around as though she's going to swot a fly or make a pancake or something! LOL

I think I really need to see a photo of Maureen in action with her Mono:)

If you can get a photo of Maureen swinging away enthusiastically, then I will promise to somehow post a photo of my C1-Jimmy Connors!

(although obviously in a different new thread as PS85 fans have probably had enough of this conversation by now:))

Virginia
10-14-2009, 08:10 PM
You're on, Jimbo. Now, if only I can remember to take my camera along to tennis and not forget what on earth I took it there for! ;)

jimbo333
10-15-2009, 04:15 AM
You're on, Jimbo. Now, if only I can remember to take my camera along to tennis and not forget what on earth I took it there for! ;)

Excellent!

Look out for the Wilson C1-Jimmy Connors thread in a few days:)

Virginia
10-15-2009, 11:33 AM
jimbo, have you read a book called "Jimmy Connors Saved my Life" by Joel Drucker?

geese_com
10-15-2009, 11:41 AM
I have never seen this before. It is a Pro Staff Classic 6.1 with a PS85/95 paintjob.

Go to the bay, the item number is: 180413896066

http://cgi.*********/Wilson-Pro-Staff-Midsize-6-0-Pete-Sampras-SL3-rare-SFZ_W0QQitemZ180413896066QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item2a01819582

VGP
10-15-2009, 01:15 PM
Now, that's wild......

http://racket24.com/image/4P1090647.jpg

http://racket24.com/image/4P1090648.jpg

http://racket24.com/image/4P1090651.jpg

http://racket24.com/image/4P1090658.jpg

geese_com
10-15-2009, 03:41 PM
Now, that's wild......

http://racket24.com/image/4P1090647.jpg

http://racket24.com/image/4P1090648.jpg

http://racket24.com/image/4P1090651.jpg

http://racket24.com/image/4P1090658.jpg

Thanks for putting the pics up VGP. I was looking for another racquet to hopefully replace my early SV and I came across that one. It's pretty sweet I think. Definitely quite unique and rare. The price isn't too bad I think for anyone with a little cash to spare who also likes to collect racquets.

ac3111
10-15-2009, 04:19 PM
In the site though says it is 95 the headsize but advertised as PS 85 sampras...

jimbo333
10-16-2009, 04:45 AM
jimbo, have you read a book called "Jimmy Connors Saved my Life" by Joel Drucker?

Yes, I read it a few years ago. It was an interresting book, but if I remember rightly Jimmy didn't co-operate with the writer in the end, and I was left wanting to know lots more.

Jimmy really should write an autobiography:)

And have a special racquet section in it, including the smaller headsized PS85 that he apparently used that had Boron in it!

(See what I did there:))

pshulam
10-17-2009, 08:15 PM
Heads-up everyone. If you don't mind the last made in China PS85s, it appears that TW is clearing out their old demo stock. They can be found in the Used section. Just ordered two myself.
Have you received them? What are their conditions? Thanks.

morten
10-18-2009, 01:13 AM
the one i got was 10 grams too light, too headheavy and 8 of 10

Virginia
10-23-2009, 12:35 AM
Look out for the Wilson C1-Jimmy Connors thread in a few days:)
Well, guess what? I've just bought one on the big auction site - it looks in absolutely wonderful condition too! :)

jimbo333
10-23-2009, 06:39 AM
Well, guess what? I've just bought one on the big auction site - it looks in absolutely wonderful condition too! :)

I've just looked, well done:)

This weekend I'm going to try and finally get some photos on here, including my C-1 Jimmy Connors!

Oh and don't forget about the photo of Maureen swinging:)

bboy_beez
10-29-2009, 07:03 PM
wow, thanks everyone for the expertise on this one of kind stick! I just went through the first 3 pages and this thread is full of info and felt like I took a class about this racquet's history and technology. Defi saving this tread!

My PS 6.0 85 will be arriving soon. I believe its a late Chinese, code ggx. Can't wait to hit the courts!

BTW, any know what is the site or link to the wiki page of this prostaff?

raygo
10-29-2009, 07:22 PM
http://thetenniswiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Wilson+Pro+Staff+6.0+Original+Mid+8 5

There you go. Hope you like the racquet!

bboy_beez
10-29-2009, 08:20 PM
http://thetenniswiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Wilson+Pro+Staff+6.0+Original+Mid+8 5

There you go. Hope you like the racquet!

wow. holy cow! amazing, and to think that all this came from TW user? incredible. Thanks much!:)

VGP
10-29-2009, 08:47 PM
You're welcome.

Just tried to pool as much reliable info on the frame as I could. I'm sure there's more out there.

My wife was looking at me funny that weekend when I started working on the wiki page.......

bboy_beez
10-29-2009, 09:26 PM
btw, how did the prostaff changed it's name to the six one?? what was the thought process of that? and what does it mean?

VGP
10-29-2009, 09:41 PM
The six-one refers to Wilson's "Swing Speed Index" classification.

Like how the Wilson Pro Staff 6.0 85 was called..... similar to the Pro Staff Classic 6.1, Federer's frames the numerical moniker is just written out....six-one. I think it'll still be called a Pro Staff, but not as prominently as before. Seems to have been shortened to Six-One Tour 90.

Wilson started doing that back in the early 90's. The swing index was devised to aid consumers in which frame would suit their swing style.

It's not quite as common across their whole product line as it used to be but it's still hanging around....

here's a post from another thread:

here is the (si) information on my wilson prostaff 7.0 si

http://i35.tinypic.com/alsxzm.jpg

callen3615
10-30-2009, 05:03 AM
Has anyone ever compared the kps88 to the older ps85?

VGP
10-30-2009, 06:18 AM
One TTW member and long-time PS85 user (Chicago and SV), drakulie, has likened the kPS88 to a beefed up Chicago PS85.

I, on the other hand, still don't know what to make of it.......

....it's nice, but my attention is focused on another frame at the moment.

raygo
11-01-2009, 06:24 PM
I just acquired an older, apaprently bumperless SV (buttcap code: HUQ). The previous owner installed a bumperguard that doesn't quite fit right--the last grommet doesn't match up to the whole completely. Other than looking a little odd, is it even worth it to track down and pay for the proper bumper?

grafter
11-02-2009, 02:34 PM
Hi Raygo,
The last I saw the StV grommets were around $30 on that auction site.

I have a question that I haven't scene discussed when talking about StV vs the Taiwan and China models (maybe I need to search better), but here it is, please forgive the description I hope it comes through clear.

On my StV where the throat connects to the area above the grip, this is different than my Taiwan (later) and China models. The Taiwan and China versions are a lot more rounded, or it is a larger space where the beams join. The StV version connects a little tighter between the beams, there is a smaller space where they beams join.

What is the Chicago version like? Is it like the StV, where the two beams from the throat join above the handle closely together?

Is this from thinner beams on the newer versions? Is this from the special error in the mold at the StV factory that is suppose to have made it play more stiff? Or are the newer versions just actually a different racket from the StV and Chicago (if the Chicago is the same as StV) and only really have the headsize in common.

Oh, and there are some great photos of a mint StV cut in half on the priority1 site.

VGP
11-02-2009, 03:26 PM
Oh, and there are some great photos of a mint StV cut in half on the priority1 site.

Thanks for the heads up....

Here are the pics:

http://www.p1tennis.com/files/images/DSC01001.JPG

http://www.p1tennis.com/files/images/DSC01008.JPG

http://www.p1tennis.com/files/images/DSC00994.JPG

VGP
11-02-2009, 03:36 PM
Oh, questions for Nate Ferguson or Ron Yu....

Is the broken frame the one mentioned when Sampras was stressed out in Stockholm in '98 while trying to secure the #1 ranking for the sixth consecutive year?

Is it the one that was dissected?

raygo
11-02-2009, 04:20 PM
[QUOTE=grafter;4074537]Hi Raygo,
The last I saw the StV grommets were around $30 on that auction site.
QUOTE]

Thanks for the heads up, I'll keep an eye out!

I don't have a Chicago, but I compared the throats of my various PS85's and didn't notice much of a difference. The bumperless SV seemed to be the same as the later ones.

Those are some crazy pics!