PDA

View Full Version : Tennisguy777's Two Handed Backhand


Tennisguy777
01-21-2009, 08:34 AM
After careful thought and observation I've decided it might be time for me to move to the two handed backhand. I had tried the one hander and after listening to the advice of BB and others I had slightly improved for a while but I began to digress. Digress is an understatement, I think my one hander is in one of the worst states it has ever been.

And after watching the like of Gilles Simon, Del Potro and Tsonga this week, I wondered why can't I have a two hander too. Well after two days of working on the two hander I have a video and I am surprised to see that I can hit the ball. Youtube is being a baby again, video will be up shortly. I need advice on should I go with the two hander or no? Also are there any flaws in my stroke as there were plenty in my one hander.

Also how do I develop the control on the two hander as I sometimes tend to under power the shot and sometimes over power the shot. Also something I found funny is, with the Radical I can hit the two hander ok but when I switch to my AG I am finding it too powerful? Normally I play with AG200 and it was ok. The radical I stopped playing with like a year ago because of the lack of control on the one hander and also vollies and serves and forehands even at #65 fully poly. So how come it is perfect just for my two hander all of the sudden.

I knew this switch eventually would happen so I had been doing a little weight training the last 2 weeks, I guess it is helping. Also would practicing with a gripper help me gain control for my right hand?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyv1tl4zUDk

Bungalo Bill
01-21-2009, 08:42 AM
After careful thought and observation I've decided it might be time for me to move to the two handed backhand. I had tried the one hander and after listening to the advice of BB and others I had slightly improved for a while but I began to digress. Digress is an understatement, I think my one hander is in one of the worst states it has ever been.

And after watching the like of Gilles Simon, Del Potro and Tsonga this week, I wondered why can't I have a two hander too. Well after two days of working on the two hander I have a video and I am surprised to see that I can hit the ball. Youtube is being a baby again, video will be up shortly. I need advice on should I go with the two hander or no? Also are there any flaws in my stroke as there were plenty in my one hander.

Also how do I develop the control on the two hander as I sometimes tend to under power the shot and sometimes over power the shot. Also something I found funny is, with the Radical I can hit the two hander ok but when I switch to my AG I am finding it too powerful? Normally I play with AG200 and it was ok. The radical I stopped playing with like a year ago because of the lack of control on the one hander and also vollies and serves and forehands even at #65 fully poly. So how come it is perfect just for my two hander all of the sudden.

I knew this switch eventually would happen so I had been doing a little weight training the last 2 weeks, I guess it is helping. Also would practicing with a gripper help me gain control for my right hand?

You can have any of them, but I am wondering what happened on the onehander. Your information about improving and then digressing didnt really say much. Everyone trying to improve will have setbacks.

Dont confuse the setback with the stroke not being right for you. With that said, if you still feel like moving on, we can certainly help you. Perhaps we can do a break-down of the twohanded backhand to gain more insight on how it works and how to practice it.

Tennisguy777
01-21-2009, 08:45 AM
^^^^ Knew that was coming but didn't expect you to be so mild. I think the biggest problem with the one hander for me was lazyness, expecting to just swing away at the last minute and expecting a good product, also on the same token watching the ball come to me and not taking charge by moving my feet. The two hander forces me to run my @$$ off and get into position. I am the type who hates to make mistakes so this in essence could be good as it would motivate me to move quicker and be "on the ball or on top of it " as they say.

LeeD
01-21-2009, 08:49 AM
Just for me, I used the two hander only for high balls or shots hit hard at me. For long reaches during rallies and low sliced balls, the onehander with underspin does a good enough job.
Low approaches usually countered with a low sliced dipping shot, not a pass, to set up the higher bouncing passing shot on the next shot. Lobs with slice, of course. Sharp angle low dippers, of course. Down the line low dippers, yes.
Then if the ball bounces higher, or I decide to play more pro-active, the two hander with topspin gets hit hard and high bouncing, to dictate the point or change the game plan.
It takes a while to learn both backhands, but maybe not much longer than learning all those shots with ONE backhand, either single or double.

Bungalo Bill
01-21-2009, 08:58 AM
^^^^ Knew that was coming but didn't expect you to be so mild. I think the biggest problem with the one hander for me was lazyness, expecting to just swing away at the last minute and expecting a good product, also on the same token watching the ball come to me and not taking charge by moving my feet. The two hander forces me to run my @$$ off and get into position. I am the type who hates to make mistakes so this in essence could be good as it would motivate me to move quicker and be "on the ball or on top of it " as they say.

Hmmm...you should know me by now. I am not a nice person when nonsense is flying around the threads. Too much nonsense in tennis nowadays largely based on bad evidence and personal findings. There is little regard to what can be taught to the masses and what should be saved for individual discovery and preference.

However, when ever someone asks for help, I wont turn them down unless they really ticked me off. Perhaps, you did at one time, but as much grief I may have given you, I easily can move on. However, if it continues, yes, I can be a real bear.

Anyway, your reasoning above is not a good enough reason. Being lazy or thinking you are lazy will have carryover or spillover into everything you do in tennis. Just because one stroke covers it up better, doesnt mean you shouldnt take care of the issue for everything you do in tennis.

Tennis is a movement sport, laziness is a poor excuse. Now, if you still want to move to the twohander, we will still start with the feet. How can we overcome your laziness and poor footwork?

Tennisguy777
01-21-2009, 09:18 AM
Well I'm working on the fitness now,have been running 1 mile on the treadmill for a week and half now got my time down from 8 mins to 5:58 mins today. I'll need to start doing shuttles for the footwork for side to side movement. So what you think about the video?

Bud
01-21-2009, 09:19 AM
^^^^ Knew that was coming but didn't expect you to be so mild. I think the biggest problem with the one hander for me was lazyness, expecting to just swing away at the last minute and expecting a good product, also on the same token watching the ball come to me and not taking charge by moving my feet. The two hander forces me to run my @$$ off and get into position. I am the type who hates to make mistakes so this in essence could be good as it would motivate me to move quicker and be "on the ball or on top of it " as they say.

Hmmm...you should know me by now. I am not a nice person when nonsense is flying around the threads. Too much nonsense in tennis nowadays largely based on bad evidence and personal findings. There is little regard to what can be taught to the masses and what should be saved for individual discovery and preference.

However, when ever someone asks for help, I wont turn them down unless they really ticked me off. Perhaps, you did at one time, but as much grief I may have given you, I easily can move on. However, if it continues, yes, I can be a real bear.

Anyway, your reasoning above is not a good enough reason. Being lazy or thinking you are lazy will have carryover or spillover into everything you do in tennis. Just because one stroke covers it up better, doesnt mean you shouldnt take care of the issue for everything you do in tennis.

Tennis is a movement sport, laziness is a poor excuse. Now, if you still want to move to the twohander, we will still start with the feet. How can we overcome your laziness and poor footwork?

Agreed... you state that you like the two-handed BH because it forces you to run+good footwork to get into proper position. Well, if you don't do that for the 1HBH, you end up with a crappy shot, correct?

So, why be lazy on the 1HBH and not the 2HBH? Are you sure you're not just frustrated and seeking comfort in what you've always used... the 2HBH?

Tennisguy777
01-21-2009, 09:22 AM
So which one you think is more natural shot for me! Remember I've been hitting the one hander for 9 years and the two hander a mere Two days. I am hoping the learning curve is not the same in this case. OK going to work will be back 10 ish! I will keep tabs on the cell.

LeeD
01-21-2009, 09:29 AM
It would be hard, not knowing you, to recommend which backhand is better for you overall.
Why not employ both?
For the one hander, if your problem is high balls, use a more eastern backhand to even a touch towards western backhand for your grip.
Turn shoulders, try to close stance, then swing thru with a consistent followthru each and every time. No lazy during the stroke.

Bud
01-21-2009, 09:29 AM
Well I'm working on the fitness now,have been running 1 mile on the treadmill for a week and half now got my time down from 8 mins to 5:58 mins today. I'll need to start doing shuttles for the footwork for side to side movement. So what you think about the video?

I was forced to learn the 2HBH because of tennis elbow. Now, I can hit both pretty well. It's good to be able to hit both backhands. The 1HBH is useful on really wide shots and on high bouncers while the 2HBH is nice on the serve return and sharply angled/low cross court shots.

Learning the 2HBH really improves the 1HBH because (like you stated) the footwork is more important to move into proper position. That then carries over to the 1HBH footwork.

I've almost reached the point where I don't really think about the grip anymore for the 2HBH. That, IMO, was the most difficult part of the transition between the two.

What really helps is a ball machine to groove your strokes (regardless of which you're improving). Just put it on a comfortable speed/feed rate... pointing at either the ad court or the deuce court. Then work on your form only... don't worry about powering or smacking the ball like an ATP pro. Strike the ball... then move back to the center of the court... wait for the next feed... then, footwork to the incoming ball... strike ball... move back to center, etc.

Keep repeating over and over and over. Get into a nice rhythm and stay at a pace (feed and speed) where you're not sucking wind. You should be able to comfortably hit 30 in a row, without losing form from overexertion.

Bud
01-21-2009, 09:49 AM
So which one you think is more natural shot for me! Remember I've been hitting the one hander for 9 years and the two hander a mere Two days. I am hoping the learning curve is not the same in this case. OK going to work will be back 10 ish! I will keep tabs on the cell.

Oh, I thought you moved from a 2HBH to a 1HBH and were now so frustrated... you moved back to a 2HBH.

Looking at the video, your 2HBH is actually pretty good... especially for using it only 2 days. I think you're a natural 2-hander. I can't believe you've been using that 1HBH for 9 years :neutral: without experimenting.

One thing I notice though on the 2HBH... if you're having trouble controlling the direction of the ball... It appears you're opening up your shoulders and left arm, too much.

Keep your dominant arm (in your case, the left arm) tucked closer to your body on the follow through. It's there to act as a pivot, primarily, and just provides a small amount of power. Your right hand should be providing the majority of the power on the stroke.

One thing that helps with this is to hit some right-handed forehands using the same grip as what you're using on the 2HBH. It trains your right arm to hit the stroke properly.

Bud
01-21-2009, 09:53 AM
I was forced to learn the 2HBH because of tennis elbow. Now, I can hit both pretty well. It's good to be able to hit both backhands. The 1HBH is useful on really wide shots and on high bouncers while the 2HBH is nice on the serve return and sharply angled/low cross court shots.

Learning the 2HBH really improves the 1HBH because (like you stated) the footwork is more important to move into proper position. That then carries over to the 1HBH footwork.

I've almost reached the point where I don't really think about the grip anymore for the 2HBH. That, IMO, was the most difficult part of the transition between the two.

What really helps is a ball machine to groove your strokes (regardless of which you're improving). Just put it on a comfortable speed/feed rate... pointing at either the ad court or the deuce court. Then work on your form only... don't worry about powering or smacking the ball like an ATP pro. Strike the ball... then move back to the center of the court... wait for the next feed... then, footwork to the incoming ball... strike ball... move back to center, etc.

Keep repeating over and over and over. Get into a nice rhythm and stay at a pace (feed and speed) where you're not sucking wind. You should be able to comfortably hit 30 in a row, without losing form from overexertion.

I wrote this prior to checking out your videos. Your feed rate and ball speed looks good. Keep your feet moving at all times, though... even before the first ball is fed. There are points you stop moving your feet completely until the ball almost reaches you.

Bungalo Bill
01-21-2009, 09:58 AM
So which one you think is more natural shot for me! Remember I've been hitting the one hander for 9 years and the two hander a mere Two days. I am hoping the learning curve is not the same in this case. OK going to work will be back 10 ish! I will keep tabs on the cell.

I didnt see the onehander but you looked like you can develop your twohander farther. As far as natural? I am assuming they both are so now it depends on which one you want to marry. :)

If you have been hitting the twohander for two days and the onehander for 9 years, perhaps you may want to switch. However, what bothers me is your comment about lazy feet. I am wondering if we improve your footwork and movement if you would then start to get more enjoyment from your onehander.

The learning curve for the twohander is usually a lot shorter. Still you will have your ups and downs with the stroke and you still will have to improve your footwork and movement.

hyogen
01-21-2009, 10:14 AM
bb i know we've had some beef before, but i'd like for you to look at my latest video and offer any tips you may have. i think even you'll say that my footwork has improved. http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=237404 i'm trying to lose this weight also.. thanks :)

LeeD
01-21-2009, 10:19 AM
Nice hijack !
Looking good, keep practicing !

Mansewerz
01-21-2009, 10:20 AM
As easy as the 2 hander sounds, it's not an easy stroke. Don't expect your game to jump leaps and bounds.

Why didn't you stick with the one hander? Like BB said, many people will have setbacks.

smoothtennis
01-21-2009, 10:22 AM
^^^^ Knew that was coming but didn't expect you to be so mild. I think the biggest problem with the one hander for me was lazyness, expecting to just swing away at the last minute and expecting a good product, also on the same token watching the ball come to me and not taking charge by moving my feet. The two hander forces me to run my @$$ off and get into position. I am the type who hates to make mistakes so this in essence could be good as it would motivate me to move quicker and be "on the ball or on top of it " as they say.

I remember mentioning that you should at least give one thing a try that would help solve this footwork, laziness, late prep business.

Remember, your racket wasn't even BACK in the ready position when the ball was hitting the court on YOUR side. See right there, you are pretty much screwed no matter what your stroke of choice. The problem is, that you are not getting the shoulders turned before the ball gets to your side of the court. Everthing else - everything - good or bad, has a very high probablitity of being late and rushed, and all that goes with that.

So my questions is this - Did you get an opportunity to go out and have the racket ready to move FORWARD (Ie, it doesn't go back anylonger) from the time the ball hits your side of the court?

hyogen
01-21-2009, 10:35 AM
look better than a 2 day 2-hand backhand :)

EikelBeiter
01-21-2009, 11:28 AM
Looks to me that your right arm isn't involved enough in your double hander. Perhaps you should try hitting some forehands with your right arm to improve your double handed backhand.

Nellie
01-21-2009, 01:30 PM
Here's a couple of quick pointers for you:

1) Prepare faster. Get that racquet back and prepare as soon as possible. You are waiting for the ball to hit before you the racquet back.

2) drop the head of the racquet more (below your knees) so that you get more of a low to high swing for better topspin.
Note in the video, you are looping, with contact at the bottom of the loop so you get a flat/slice ball which will have no margin for error.

With points 1 and 2, you may want to develop a slot where you have your racquet along your leg, pointing down/back and your hands around your hips and forward of the head of the raucquet

3) kept that left arm tucked into your body, at least for a while. If not, you may start to overswing with too much rotation at the shoulder/arms and not enough push with the off hand (right).

Bungalo Bill
01-21-2009, 02:56 PM
bb i know we've had some beef before, but i'd like for you to look at my latest video and offer any tips you may have. i think even you'll say that my footwork has improved. http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=237404 i'm trying to lose this weight also.. thanks :)

Again, beef? If I had thin skin with you guys, I would be crying home to momma. If I am going to be tough on you, I expect you to be tough with me. Just make sure you know what you are talking about when you try. :)

Your strokes are much improved and very well done. I would say you moved up from 2.5 to 3.0, hahahaha, just kidding.

Anyway, here are a few more things to work on:

1. You mentioned your weight so enough said. Git er' done.

2. Stay on your toes all the time. This will put pressure on your calves and thighs but it will make them stronger and will build endurance. Watch this clip on Federer and watch how he moves on his toes a bunch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVwPRKh1Mdk

3. Get to your recovery position. Use HIT BOUNCE HIT to help you complete the cycle.

4. I wasnt crazy about your crossover step (at :59 seconds) when you hit your backhand on the ad side. You could have used your momentum better and perhaps reduced a step or two to move back into recovery mode. For the most part, always try to keep your feet apart and moving. Plant better coming out of your stroke and get out of hitting mode quicker after your followthrough. When you get lighter on your feet more, I think this will be easier to do. Use the crossover if you really have to cover ground. I am not set in stone about it but always looking for things to get better at. Watch Federer above and how he keeps his feet apart as he moves.

5. Your left arm in the twohanded backhand needs to extend through the ball. It is too short.

6. Non-dominant arm in the forehand needs to extend a bit more and scan the contact zone before you fold it back in to the body. They will help you get even better at sending your angular momentum INTO the ball.

7. Shoulder rotation was good for the most part, keep moving that front shoulder under the chin before firing away.

You did well, keep up the good work.