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Farz77
01-26-2009, 05:54 PM
I'm sure most of you have heard of the Mark at Revolutionary Tennis. Recently I read the Volleyt article. And have done some reasearch and his is right on some things but on others... Like the close moving foward fh volley, simply turning the wrist on it's side, no forearm movement. (Mcenroe given as example) And this Sampras volley proves it as well.
http://www.tennisone.com/magazine/features/doubles/ForehandVolley2.jpg

But he's saying no high-low path. That's how pros impart underspin on the ball, in doing so they don't have to change the spin that's coming from the opponent's groudie which is almost always topspin.
What do you guys think about this leverage mumbo-jumbo. It makes sense, it's just that when you see slow-motion sampras videos, he extends his arm on that fh volley (not lunging at all).
This is the page :
http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/step10.html#forget
Your thoughts, not just on my questions but your own comments about this page as well.
Thanks,

GeorgeLucas
01-26-2009, 06:24 PM
I'm sure most of you have heard of the Mark at Revolutionary Tennis. Recently I read the Volleyt article. And have done some reasearch and his is right on some things but on others... Like the close moving foward fh volley, simply turning the wrist on it's side, no forearm movement. (Mcenroe given as example) And this Sampras volley proves it as well.
http://www.tennisone.com/magazine/features/doubles/ForehandVolley2.jpg

But he's saying no high-low path. That's how pros impart underspin on the ball, in doing so they don't have to change the spin that's coming from the opponent's groudie which is almost always topspin.
What do you guys think about this leverage mumbo-jumbo. It makes sense, it's just that when you see slow-motion sampras videos, he extends his arm on that fh volley (not lunging at all).
This is the page :
http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/step10.html#forget
Your thoughts, not just on my questions but your own comments about this page as well.
Thanks,

When I see a link for Revolutionary Tennis, I do a 180 degree revolution and walk away.



LOL

Ballinbob
01-26-2009, 06:41 PM
i'm too stupid to understand what he's saying lol.

However, I do know that you shouldnt really focus on putting underspin on the ball. Just focus on hitting it in the sweetspot and timing it right while hitting the ball in front of you. And remember to keep a firm wrist and a slightly bent elbow. Mostly focus on the timing though. A perfectly timed volley will usually get the job done even though if you aren't hitting with the right technique.

The rest will come naturally

GeorgeLucas
01-26-2009, 06:47 PM
i'm too stupid to understand what he's saying lol.

However, I do know that you shouldnt really focus on putting underspin on the ball. Just focus on hitting it in the sweetspot and timing it right while hitting the ball in front of you. And remember to keep a firm wrist and a slightly bent elbow. Mostly focus on the timing though. A perfectly timed volley will usually get the job done even though if you aren't hitting with the right technique.

The rest will come naturally

You aren't missing out on much. In fact, I'd like to make it a point to trouble anyone reading this that they ought to forgo many of the teachings on that site. From what I've seen, the misinformation presented poses a disservice to anyone interested in improving their game.

Ballinbob
01-26-2009, 06:53 PM
I don't know, maybe it is a good site with good information.

I'm just saying, I'm too stupid to understand it. Does anyone know if its worth my time reading it and analyzing it though? If it will help my game any then I guess I'll try and understand it

theartoftennis
01-26-2009, 07:05 PM
Basically, the site teaches you exactly what NOT to do.

LeeD
01-27-2009, 07:59 AM
First of all, anyone who extolls teaching McEnroe's volley should be put into an insane asylum. NO other player volleys like Mc.
Second, that pic of Sampras shows his racket face below the ball, after he hit it, so it's a high to low underspin stroke.
The V thing is OK, as that's a solid volley form.
As to countering the spin of the passing shot.... That is BS ! Good players pass with both topspin AND slice, and sidespin as well. You do not alter your volley according to HIS shot, you volley the way you volley, and that's NOT a chop high to low, but a stroke moving forwards, rackethead barely dropping thru the stroke imparting underspin, not slice, to your shot.
As far as moving forwards... of course, if you have time.

Farz77
01-27-2009, 08:14 AM
So you guys are saying to never lose that V angle. even on low volleys? How about posture? Also this site ultimatebalnce.com they talk about how mcenroe stayed vertical during his strokes and volleys...

LeeD
01-27-2009, 08:21 AM
McEnroe had one of the best volleys ever, but nobody comes close to his technique, style, or form. He could reach low volleys by just dipping the rackethead down to the ground, with some knee bend. His racket angle in relation to his forearm was almost straight, not V'd like traditional styles.
Don't consider his volley technique as the idea for instruction.
All other players HAVE to bend their upper bodys just a little to reach low and half volleys, even the Edbergs, Nastases, Rafters, and Sampras.
If I had to learn a volley technique, I'd copy the above and look at McEnroes as an abberation.

dakels
01-27-2009, 10:16 AM
McEnroe had one of the best volleys ever, but nobody comes close to his technique, style, or form. He could reach low volleys by just dipping the rackethead down to the ground, with some knee bend. His racket angle in relation to his forearm was almost straight, not V'd like traditional styles.
Don't consider his volley technique as the idea for instruction.
All other players HAVE to bend their upper bodys just a little to reach low and half volleys, even the Edbergs, Nastases, Rafters, and Sampras.
If I had to learn a volley technique, I'd copy the above and look at McEnroes as an abberation.
Good assessment IMO. I always felt Mac had very unusual form as well, and one I would never teach. The guy has gifted hands, and a form which I would even call a bit lazy. He got away with it because he has such amazing touch and ability to place it where he wanted. He could control everything with just his loose hands and wrists in soft touch volleys. (A form which you see many decent volleyers and pros do when they are practicing and not being serious at net.) Others need to support their hands with strong body mechanics designed to give you the best possible chance of returning a decent volley by stabilizing your wrist and hands and pushing forward with your body for the least amount of movement from the racquet head. Less swinging in the volleys general equates to better accuracy for those with non legendary hands. This is a big concept that many people fail to realize. Form is not just about the shot, its about the misses and making sure that every part of your motion is giving you the best chance of making a good shot.

Funny talking about McEnroe. I saw him and Billie Jean last night at the Knicks/Houston game.

tennisfreak15347
01-27-2009, 10:48 AM
I think I just lost a couple IQ points reading the stuff on that site. if I'm correct, they're also telling you to move the racquet with your arm, and not your shoulders.

Kevo
01-27-2009, 11:08 AM
I think I just lost a couple IQ points reading the stuff on that site. if I'm correct, they're also telling you to move the racquet with your arm, and not your shoulders.

I'm not sure I follow you on that one. Isn't moving the racquet with your arm standard procedure for a volley?

Kevo
01-27-2009, 11:11 AM
I enjoyed reading the article. I think he makes quite a few good points. The best one to my mind is not getting too hung up on the racquet/arm angle.

I always tell my students to first get the racquet behind the ball, and second, move through the path they want to hit the ball. Too many people try to swing or chop and that typically leads to errors. It's usually pretty easy to reflect the ball like the site described.

SystemicAnomaly
01-27-2009, 11:53 AM
I would not dismiss every thing on the RT site out of hand. Mark does have some excellent insight & perspective on quite a few things. On a lot of stuff, I disagree. Not yet looked at his volley stuff.

Master Flow
01-30-2009, 10:15 PM
I volley with the v shape and i take two step (the right foot doesnt move but it does "step"). if the raquet is on the same leve on the ball then it does create a natural backspin (hammer grip, firm wrist).
If you want to read that, then take it for face value incorporate some stuff and leave the rest. there is always some truth in everything that is said.......for the most part

NamRanger
01-30-2009, 10:30 PM
Attempting to volley like McEnroe would get you killed. McEnroe had the fastest hands, and best touch at the net, ever. Edberg is the most textbook, and is a good player to copy.

cadfael_tex
07-28-2009, 05:35 PM
Hope no one minds a slight resurrect of this thread (not too old). I've gone on the revolutionary tennis site a few times. Some stuff I'm not sure, some sounds feasible, and most I just don't get (poster does dog head tilting thing).

Thought it was funny reading the emulating McEnroe stuff. Idolized him (at least his game) as a teenager - set my tennis back at least a couple of years trying to hit like him - d'oh.

Do have to say that I liked his serve stuff - especially the box imagery he used.

BLOB (bottom line on bottom) - what can be gleaned as good from his site and what should be avoided for someone trying to learn? I'm looking for some specifics.

Double bagel
07-28-2009, 08:44 PM
LeeD, you're spot-on about Mac's volley skills. Nobody can volley like that. He was a gem at the net.

Edberg was a special volleyer, but his racquet head was like 20 sq.in larger LOL!

Stay FAR FAR away from Revolutionary Tennis!

cadfael_tex
07-29-2009, 10:17 AM
No offense to anyone who keeps saying it's no good but...

What so wrong with it?

It's not really helpful to say 'nope, not good' without backing up with knowlegable and specific counters to false information.

yellowoctopus
07-29-2009, 11:10 AM
Just read the volley section on the revolutionary site, thanks to this thread.

My initial take on the whole 'v' arm angle was that the author argues against loosing upper body balance while trying to maintain the V. Although he might have alluded on the site that V is a sin, perhaps he is referring to the V where the racket face has to be above the hand.

Personally I think V is ok but certainly not one of the ten commandments. While one can argue all day on Federer's ability to volley, I would like to use him to prove my point.

Mr. Federer with a V
http://www.tennis.com/uploadedImages/Your_Game/Instruction_Articles/Net_Game/2006_04_19_federer_volley.jpg

Mr. Federer with no V
http://www.tennis.com/uploadedImages/Your_Game/Instruction_Articles/Net_Game/2006_04_19_federer_volley_2.jpg

Lastly, Becker, with argueably a V (or not, more like an L) but the racket face is the same level as the hand, and the body remains upright.
http://www.tcwieland.de/Trainingstipps/images/Becker_Volley_300x400.jpg

larry10s
07-29-2009, 11:45 AM
there is a V in all the above examples just to a greater or lesser angle. on feds shot his hand would have to be under the court surface to keep a sharp V angle. but there is still a reasonable forearm wrist racquet angle.. i also revolution 180 degrees when i see revolutionary tennis.

Bungalo Bill
07-29-2009, 12:22 PM
I'm sure most of you have heard of the Mark at Revolutionary Tennis. Recently I read the Volleyt article. And have done some reasearch and his is right on some things but on others... Like the close moving foward fh volley, simply turning the wrist on it's side, no forearm movement. (Mcenroe given as example) And this Sampras volley proves it as well.
http://www.tennisone.com/magazine/features/doubles/ForehandVolley2.jpg

But he's saying no high-low path. That's how pros impart underspin on the ball, in doing so they don't have to change the spin that's coming from the opponent's groudie which is almost always topspin.
What do you guys think about this leverage mumbo-jumbo. It makes sense, it's just that when you see slow-motion sampras videos, he extends his arm on that fh volley (not lunging at all).
This is the page :
http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/step10.html#forget
Your thoughts, not just on my questions but your own comments about this page as well.
Thanks,

You need to take Mark with a grain of salt for sure. He does have good information within his posts. However, what I don't like his take on the "establishment" as if coaches are mindlessly programmed to follow big brother leading people down a path to hell.

It is that chip on his shoulder that I wish I could knock off. I think he is full of gravy there.

He is right that the V (or what I call the U shape) of the volley should not be so fixed that it becomes combersome to get the racquet head on the ball.

When I post, I usually write that people shouldn't bend at the waist to field their low volleys and that they should bend at the knees to get lower. I also mention the U shape, however, even though this may mean that the coach needs to teach it in a more strict way, as the student learns to shape their arms like that, the coach needs to allow the arm to ebb and flo within the U shape for a smooth flexing form. If this means that the wrist should adjust a bit then so be it.

Although some instruction comes across rigid, it really is meant to liberate by being strict at first and once it becomes molded or engrained, allowing the learning to flex and shape within reason around the discipline. It is all about racquet head control and strengthening the muscles that support that control. It is not about absolutes and rigidness.

Now, I don't know if I am in complete agreement with the backhand volley. I do lay back my hand for the forehand volley but I also have layed back my hand for the backhand volley on occasion. Again, this has to do with first learning the strictness of the stroke and then once you have that down, being able to flex around it for your particular style and comfort.

I also do not have a rigid tight hand. I tend to like hitting my volleys with somewhat of a soft hand. It is not so relaxed that the racquet wobbles around but it also is not real firm either. This way I can shape my arm properly while maintaining good volley discipline for the ball I am receiving.