PDA

View Full Version : Does your tennis club charge a USTA league Fees?


PlayTheClay
01-28-2009, 08:31 AM
My club in Virginia is forcing their members to pay an additional $50 per team to play in a USTA league. This is on top of the USTA membership and league fees.

Do your club's charge you an additional fee to play? If so is it per league or yearly? How much is it? And what value do you get for the added charge?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Rabbit
01-28-2009, 08:46 AM
No, the club I belong to doesn't charge for USTA. I've never heard of such.

NetMaster70
01-28-2009, 08:49 AM
We pay for court time and balls for USTA matches but we do not pay any amount just for fielding a team.

Chris De Tone
01-28-2009, 09:34 AM
A little late to the party, but...no. USTA, there is no fee.

JRstriker12
01-28-2009, 09:35 AM
My club in Virginia is forcing their members to pay an additional $50 per team to play in a USTA league. This is on top of the USTA membership and league fees.

Do your club's charge you an additional fee to play? If so is it per league or yearly? How much is it? And what value do you get for the added charge?

Thanks in advance for your input.

I don't belong to a club, but my fees usually look like this:

-USTA Membership fee (what is it now days? About $35?)
-USTA fee to join the team/league. (About $25)
-Court time fee for each match I play (about $15-$17 per match)

IMHO, $50 per team is not that much. Split it between your team's players and it comes to maybe $5 or less.

The question is, what does the $50 cover? Is it court time? If it's court time, you team is getting a good deal.

spot
01-28-2009, 09:46 AM
$50 per team? An extra $3 per person sure doesn't seem unreasonable

Jack the Hack
01-28-2009, 10:06 AM
Most of the clubs in my area charge a fee ranging from $50 to $100 for non-members to play on one of their USTA teams, which I suppose is justifiable.

However, the club I used to belong to charged each team $200 bucks total (on top of league fees) whether you were a member or not... which didn't seem fair to me. Afterall, I was already paying monthy dues to cover my court time... why should I pay extra because it's a USTA League match? Therefore, I left to go to another club which doesn't pull that kind of prank.

Ronaldo
01-28-2009, 10:13 AM
Contact your district league coordinator and find out what the team fee really is. With clubs closing and limiting the number of teams, independent teams are playing each year.

cknobman
01-28-2009, 10:31 AM
Are you sure the fee isnt to cover court time for your USTA matches that will be held at the club?

All clubs charge that.

Me fees look like this:

Usta yearly membership $25 (I always find a discount code)
Usta team fee $25
Court, ball, and drink fee $25

Okazaki Fragment
01-28-2009, 11:01 AM
My club in Virginia is forcing their members to pay an additional $50 per team to play in a USTA league. This is on top of the USTA membership and league fees.

Do your club's charge you an additional fee to play? If so is it per league or yearly? How much is it? And what value do you get for the added charge?

Thanks in advance for your input.

No. Just the court fees that everybody else (non-league) pays too. If they are charging you for something that the non-league players aren't being charged for, then they are ripping you off and doing a great disservice to the game of tennis.

AR15
01-28-2009, 12:38 PM
My club does not charge such a fee, but I can see where clubs might be inclined to. With what it costs for the lights, court maintenance, court repair, and court replacement, I can see where clubs are looking for any means possible to help defray these cost.

Blask
01-28-2009, 01:43 PM
My club in Virginia is forcing their members to pay an additional $50 per team to play in a USTA league. This is on top of the USTA membership and league fees.

Do your club's charge you an additional fee to play? If so is it per league or yearly? How much is it? And what value do you get for the added charge?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Which club in VA do you play at? Just curious

Bash and Crash
01-28-2009, 02:44 PM
our club here, charges $45 for non-member players, many clubs in area do not allow any non-members on their teams. Also, $45-50 bucks is not that much if you have to pay $10-15 for each home match for guest fee and light fees. We also allow the teams to have one practice a week, without guest fees. All in all i think it's a fair deal for non-member players.

Ronaldo
01-28-2009, 02:46 PM
My club does not charge such a fee, but I can see where clubs might be inclined to. With what it costs for the lights, court maintenance, court repair, and court replacement, I can see where clubs are looking for any means possible to help defray these cost.

Our club limits the number of teams to one male, one female at each level. No lights, no indoors courts. No non-members. But you do not have to drag your own court.

raiden031
01-28-2009, 03:24 PM
My club charges like $25/person members ($50/person non-members) to join a USTA team. Plus court fees if playing indoors and no charge for outdoor courts.

AR15
01-29-2009, 05:09 AM
To those of you who are paying these club fees, I have a question: Does your club provide balls for your league matches? Is there anything included in this fee?

Ronaldo
01-29-2009, 05:17 AM
To those of you who are paying these club fees, I have a question: Does your club provide balls for your league matches? Is there anything included in this fee?

Our district provides balls to each team for home matches, the clubs do not provide balls.

spot
01-29-2009, 05:53 AM
seems to me that if the club is giving you priority for court time over non-league members during those peak times then it makes sense for them to charge the team a nominal fee.

Ronaldo
01-29-2009, 06:36 AM
seems to me that if the club is giving you priority for court time over non-league members during those peak times then it makes sense for them to charge the team a nominal fee.

That is why our club limits the number of teams at each level. When every court is used for 2 1/2 hrs for league play nearly every weekday, members start looking for the door. 10 yrs ago we had the singles matches 1st, then the dubs just so we would only use 3 courts. Or force at least 2 matches to be played on hardcourts.

Court Valkyrie
01-29-2009, 06:17 PM
If you are a non-member where I play it is 50$ per person per season. We have USTA 4x a year 2 men/womens seasons and 2 mixed seasons. Plus we have ALTA which plays opposite of USTA. When the USTA mens season is rolling, ALTA has a mixed season. So if you are a non member and want to play every season in one year you are looking at 400$ a year! Atlanta Lawn Tennis Association = ALTA

Tennisguy777
01-29-2009, 06:23 PM
Are you sure the fee isnt to cover court time for your USTA matches that will be held at the club?

All clubs charge that.

Me fees look like this:

Usta yearly membership $25 (I always find a discount code)
Usta team fee $25
Court, ball, and drink fee $25

you got anymore coupons, I need to renew and they want $40. E-mail me.

cak
01-30-2009, 05:39 PM
At one time our club charged $50 a member for USTA, but that was to pay the pro to come to each home match so they could alter clinics and such. At present the club pro is not even aware what USTA season it is, so that fee is long gone.

I could see some sort of fee to cover guest fees for the teams coming in and playing against you. Though at our club there is a $30 per season fee for non-members, and no fee for members. If your team is providing hospitality after the game food and drinks need to be purchased from the club.

PlayTheClay
02-02-2009, 08:41 AM
it is $50 per person per league...I wish it was $50 a team.




I don't belong to a club, but my fees usually look like this:

-USTA Membership fee (what is it now days? About $35?)
-USTA fee to join the team/league. (About $25)
-Court time fee for each match I play (about $15-$17 per match)

IMHO, $50 per team is not that much. Split it between your team's players and it comes to maybe $5 or less.

The question is, what does the $50 cover? Is it court time? If it's court time, you team is getting a good deal.

PlayTheClay
02-02-2009, 08:44 AM
We do not play at night (no lights anyway) and our court fees for outdoor courts are free as part of membership.

PlayTheClay
02-02-2009, 08:47 AM
Boars Head Sorts Club

PlayTheClay
02-02-2009, 08:48 AM
problem with your logic is that outdoor courts are free to members at our club

PlayTheClay
02-02-2009, 08:49 AM
$50 each per each team..play on 4 teams and thats another $200 per player

downthewall
02-02-2009, 08:34 PM
clubs should not charge you usta fees. thats a total rippoff!

Ronaldo
02-02-2009, 08:54 PM
clubs should not charge you usta fees. thats a total rippoff!

So, like, how do the clubs recoup those USTA charges? If everyone plays league tennis it may be included in the membership fee. But if you do not play league tennis, should you pay the same as those that do? Been on independent teams and made it clear to everyone participating what the charges were and how much each member needed to pay to play.

raiden031
02-10-2009, 02:49 AM
I cant believe what my club has done.

Last year it was $20/person (member) or $50/person (non-member).

This year it is $50/person (member) or $80/person (non-member).

cak
02-10-2009, 06:18 AM
So do these club charges include the fee to the section/USTA? Or are we talking charges above that? Our club doesn't charge members anything, but you, of course, do have to sign up for the team on the NorCal website, and have your credit card handy. I believe right now it is $21 per member per team to sign up. Captains and co-captains are free. Our club does charge a $30 fee for non-members for court time, and has limits on the numbers of non-members per team as well as limits on play time. (Members are guaranteed two matches per season, non-members aren't guaranteed any matches...) And everyone gets to pay for hospitality (food and drink) which comes from the club.

goober
02-10-2009, 06:24 AM
We use public tennis facilities.

No membership fees.

Only pay for court time. It was about $30 for last season.

The only downside is that there are only about 3-4 public facilities in the area that will let you block out 5 courts for 2 hours+ till closing. So there are usually many teams formed out of the same facility.

innoVAShaun
02-10-2009, 07:47 AM
Yeah I think the $85 dollars we had to pay for a winter league at FSITC ODU is a little steep.

On another note, we use city public courts for our USTA Leagues. Usually what all is included (other than USTA membership) is league fee, court time and a patrons fee. It adds up somewhat but the prices have kept on going up the past few years.

raiden031
02-10-2009, 07:51 AM
So do these club charges include the fee to the section/USTA? Or are we talking charges above that?

In my case I am being charged $50 by my club that runs the leagues, PLUS the USTA league fee of like $22.75 or whatever it is. I already pay $75/month to be a member at my facilities, plus any indoor matches will have court fees.

Nellie
02-10-2009, 08:06 AM
I am still baffled by why the club is charging you. Could you play USTA without being in the club. In know in some areas, all USTA is through clubs, so they can extort you. Where I am though, anyone can captain a team.

raiden031
02-10-2009, 08:09 AM
I am still baffled by why the club is charging you. Could you play USTA without being in the club. In know in some areas, all USTA is through clubs, so they can extort you. Where I am though, anyone can captain a team.

In my area the usta leagues are run by the clubs. There is no usta league using public courts.

PlayTheClay
02-10-2009, 01:11 PM
No the USTA league fees and area league coordinator fees are additional.

PlayTheClay
02-10-2009, 01:15 PM
Our club members raised enough hell to get the fees overturned for the short term. I would urge you to organize all the members who are upset by this fee increase. We started a Facebook Group which members who wer upset could vent their frustration and communicate as a group. We also posted on here for feedback from other USTA players from across the country (thanks everyone for your input). I would also urge you to call clubs in your area to understand what the market is charging...be sure to compare apples for apples wen you look at clubs...private to private, member owned to member owned, etc. THe last piece of advice to is call your state USTA office and talk to the state league coordinator. They will help you to pressure the club in reducing or dropping the fees. Good luck.

Spokewench
02-10-2009, 01:46 PM
No, we sometimes play USTA league matches at the club and sometimes not. Sometimes on public courts. If we play at the club, they have special fees for USTA league matches held at the club, so basically we are paying for the courts when and if we use them for usta league events.

There are no other fees, because why should there be? Why would they care if we are playing in a USTA league if we don't use the courts?

spoke

spot
02-11-2009, 03:13 AM
Radien- are there no public courts near you? Seriously- for those prices just move your team to public courts. Just because no teams are currently run out of public courts doesn't mean that the USTA wouldn't let you start one. And if you would rather play out of the club even with the extra fees then I suppose they are totally justified in charging since thats what the market will bear. I do think clubs should be entitled to charge a fee for teams since they are giving you the courttime priority over non-league players but once it gets that high I'd think they would be risking you just jumping to a public court.

raiden031
02-11-2009, 04:14 AM
Radien- are there no public courts near you? Seriously- for those prices just move your team to public courts. Just because no teams are currently run out of public courts doesn't mean that the USTA wouldn't let you start one. And if you would rather play out of the club even with the extra fees then I suppose they are totally justified in charging since thats what the market will bear. I do think clubs should be entitled to charge a fee for teams since they are giving you the courttime priority over non-league players but once it gets that high I'd think they would be risking you just jumping to a public court.

So I'm supposed to kick everyone off the public courts when I have a league match? How do I get that kind of authority? I play out of the club because its either that or not play at all. Simple as that.

Its a rip because you don't get any guaranteed playing time. So you can spend between $75-$100 to be on a team and get 1 or 2 matches. I would rather be charged court time for every match I play instead of being charged some enormous fee to join a team and then not play anyways.

goober
02-11-2009, 04:50 AM
So I'm supposed to kick everyone off the public courts when I have a league match? How do I get that kind of authority? I play out of the club because its either that or not play at all. Simple as that.

Its a rip because you don't get any guaranteed playing time. So you can spend between $75-$100 to be on a team and get 1 or 2 matches. I would rather be charged court time for every match I play instead of being charged some enormous fee to join a team and then not play anyways.

I guess it depends on where you live. Where I am there are public tennis facilities which have anywhere from 12-25 courts. You can reserve court time and pay a small fee ($2-5). There are no membership fees you just pay as you go. Then there are public community courts which are typically 1-6 courts in size that you cannot reserve and are free. Obviously the former are where you would play USTA matches.

raiden031
02-11-2009, 05:22 AM
I guess it depends on where you live. Where I am there are public tennis facilities which have anywhere from 12-25 courts. You can reserve court time and pay a small fee ($2-5). There are no membership fees you just pay as you go. Then there are public community courts which are typically 1-6 courts in size that you cannot reserve and are free. Obviously the former are where you would play USTA matches.

We don't have the public facilities you describe. We have like 4 private facilities that are managed by a community association and you have to pay for memberhship to reserve courts there. Then there are roughly 10 public park/high school courts that have between 2-6 courts at each, and these are first-come, first-serve. Almost always filled to capacity on a weeknight or weekend. So the USTA leagues are all run at the private facilities.

JRstriker12
02-11-2009, 06:00 AM
raiden - just wondering. So in MD, the clubs themselves run the league?

For example, here in VA, the leagues are hosted at various clubs (location changes every week just about), but they are run by a league coordinator not associated with the clubs (http://www.homecourttennis.com/). Anyone can create and enter a team into the league. We play USTA memebrship, team fees, and court time. The big clubs do have thier own teams though.

How does it work in MD? Do the clubs have their own seperate USTA leagues? Do all the clubs charge the same extra fee to play in the league? Or is it that the clubs tend to run all the teams, but someone else coordinates the league?

BTW- Where are you in MD? Montgomery County?

raiden031
02-11-2009, 06:58 AM
raiden - just wondering. So in MD, the clubs themselves run the league?

For example, here in VA, the leagues are hosted at various clubs (location changes every week just about), but they are run by a league coordinator not associated with the clubs (http://www.homecourttennis.com/). Anyone can create and enter a team into the league. We play USTA memebrship, team fees, and court time. The big clubs do have thier own teams though.

How does it work in MD? Do the clubs have their own seperate USTA leagues? Do all the clubs charge the same extra fee to play in the league? Or is it that the clubs tend to run all the teams, but someone else coordinates the league?

BTW- Where are you in MD? Montgomery County?

I don't think the entire state of MD is run the same. But in Howard County where I am, all the USTA leagues are run by private clubs. There are like 3-4 local leagues and each is associated with a club. So each club league has their own fees. The main league is the howard county league which is run by the Columbia Association, which manages fitness/tennis facilities and parks in the area, but requires private monthly membership to use their facilities. Although anyone can start a team in this league, you just have to pay more if you're not a member. I think they govern what facilities are used for all matches, and I've never heard of a team that was based out of an external facility yet was in the same league.

I believe the league coordinators oversee the other club leagues as well. The leagues converge in a playoff prior to districts to decide which team advances to districts in each skill division.

Ronaldo
02-11-2009, 06:59 AM
raiden, are there tennis courts at a local university or high school? If you pay a fee and reserve courts for that day/evening, may be cheaper. If you choose a public park to practice, may attract more players to show up to play tennis.

raiden031
02-11-2009, 07:03 AM
raiden, are there tennis courts at a local university or high school? If you pay a fee and reserve courts for that day/evening, may be cheaper. If you choose a public park to practice, may attract more players to show up to play tennis.

I don't know if that would fly. As I said, I've never heard of a team in my county operating out of a facility that is not associated with the club running the league. Also there is so much demand for the public parks and high school courts by various county programs and schools, that I don't think that I could reserve enough court time to run a team.

JRstriker12
02-11-2009, 09:44 AM
I don't think the entire state of MD is run the same. But in Howard County where I am, all the USTA leagues are run by private clubs. There are like 3-4 local leagues and each is associated with a club. So each club league has their own fees. The main league is the howard county league which is run by the Columbia Association, which manages fitness/tennis facilities and parks in the area, but requires private monthly membership to use their facilities. Although anyone can start a team in this league, you just have to pay more if you're not a member. I think they govern what facilities are used for all matches, and I've never heard of a team that was based out of an external facility yet was in the same league.

I believe the league coordinators oversee the other club leagues as well. The leagues converge in a playoff prior to districts to decide which team advances to districts in each skill division.

Okay, I see.

raiden, are there tennis courts at a local university or high school? If you pay a fee and reserve courts for that day/evening, may be cheaper. If you choose a public park to practice, may attract more players to show up to play tennis.

That would take a lot of time and dedication. Plus you'd have to work on pulling people for the estabilshed league. May not be possible since it appears that they have limited public facilties in raiden's area.

spot
02-11-2009, 09:56 AM
I guess I am just lucky living in Atlanta. THere are many public courts here that take reservations- we just have to pay them a league fee to play out of there. For us it comes out around $35 per person per season. (they make you pay for practice time as well- its one big upfront fee at the beginning of the season) Go to whatever public courts there are that let you reserve time and see if they have a policy for league tennis. I am guessing that you just haven't ever asked- it doesn't make any sense to me that public courts wouldn't allow you to have a usta team out of public courts. I mean thats a decently big $700 check those public courts get from us every season- just seems to me that for the amount of $$ you are talking about some courts would easily give you priority during your league times.

Topaz
02-11-2009, 10:09 AM
In my area, we do use public courts for our outdoor leagues. The reservations are all set up through the coordinator, though. Each person pays a match fee of $10 for each match they play...usually collected right before the match itself. We send those fees off to the coordinator (minus any cost for balls).

I have also reserved contract time on public courts for team practices, though. Pretty cheap...7 bucks per hour, and we have the 'security' of knowing we'll have the same courts the same time very week for practice.

JRstriker12
02-11-2009, 10:15 AM
I guess I am just lucky living in Atlanta. THere are many public courts here that take reservations- we just have to pay them a league fee to play out of there. For us it comes out around $35 per person per season. (they make you pay for practice time as well- its one big upfront fee at the beginning of the season) Go to whatever public courts there are that let you reserve time and see if they have a policy for league tennis. I am guessing that you just haven't ever asked- it doesn't make any sense to me that public courts wouldn't allow you to have a usta team out of public courts. I mean thats a decently big $700 check those public courts get from us every season- just seems to me that for the amount of $$ you are talking about some courts would easily give you priority during your league times.

I don't think that it's that the public courts won't allow a league, it's just that I think in raiden's area, the clubs have control of the USTA leagues - as he explained ealier in response to my question. He may also have very few or no "public courts" as all the courts in the county may be owned by an association - we have a community like that where I have to join the association to use thier courts.

Overiding an exstablished league is not easy. For example, in my area in VA, all our league games are played indoors (summer, fall, winter, spring) and are timed (Ran out of time at 6-7, 3-1? Too bad). I could try to start an outdoor league, but that would take alot more time than I have and a lot of work to move long established teams from the current indoor leagues.

Topaz
02-11-2009, 10:17 AM
Overiding an exstablished league is not easy. For example, in my area in VA, all our league games are played indoors (summer, fall, winter, spring) and are timed (Ran out of time at 6-7, 3-1? Too bad). I could try to start an outdoor league, but that would take alot more time than I have and a lot of work to move long established teams from the current indoor leagues.

JR, that is just the indoor adult leagues.

As you know, mixed allows a longer time (2 hours).

And we do have outdoor leagues, I've played in them for several years now. The guys don't have one because nobody organizes the teams, but the structure for the league is already there. We have 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0 outdoor women's leagues, and we get a full two out of three sets and two hours of play.

spot
02-11-2009, 10:28 AM
Just because the current teams are all out of clubs I just find it hard to believe that the USTA would BAN a team from playing out of a public court. I just haven't ever heard of the USTA allowing monopolies like that. As long as the facility met the USTA standards then I have to think the USTA would allow you to play. ANd if they tried to maintain a monopoly then I would just appeal that on up the USTA chain. I think that its probably that the clubs are the ones that go to through the work to organize the teams and all of them currently are out of clubs- not that the USTA would prevent another team from joining if they were part of a public court.Someone just has to be first to organize the team out of a public court.

JRstriker12
02-11-2009, 10:40 AM
JR, that is just the indoor adult leagues.

As you know, mixed allows a longer time (2 hours).

And we do have outdoor leagues, I've played in them for several years now. The guys don't have one because nobody organizes the teams, but the structure for the league is already there. We have 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0 outdoor women's leagues, and we get a full two out of three sets and two hours of play.

Yes, I know mixed gets more time and I knew there are female outdoor leagues..... but that doesn't help me much if I want to play men's league outdoors.

Guess the guys don't want to play out side for some reason. There has to be a reason no one organizes the outdoor teams :confused:

Topaz
02-11-2009, 10:45 AM
Yes, I know mixed gets more time and I knew there are female outdoor leagues..... but that doesn't help me much if I want to play men's league outdoors.

Guess the guys don't want to play out side for some reason. There has to be a reason no one organizes the outdoor teams :confused:

All you have to do is sign up with Ingrid. However, a whole team from indoor can not play as a whole team in outdoor...there is a 2 player rule that prevents that...thereby preventing a dominant team from 'taking over' both leagues in a particular level.

Nobody organizes it because it involves some extra volunteer work. *shrug* I really like outdoor, and I've been one of the people who help organize it...I think it is worth it. If you told Ingrid you were interested, she could help you.

We play at Wakefield Park and Nottoway Park. We also have daytime outdoor leagues, too.

JRstriker12
02-11-2009, 10:45 AM
Just because the current teams are all out of clubs I just find it hard to believe that the USTA would BAN a team from playing out of a public court. I just haven't ever heard of the USTA allowing monopolies like that. As long as the facility met the USTA standards then I have to think the USTA would allow you to play. ANd if they tried to maintain a monopoly then I would just appeal that on up the USTA chain. I think that its probably that the clubs are the ones that go to through the work to organize the teams and all of them currently are out of clubs- not that the USTA would prevent another team from joining if they were part of a public court.Someone just has to be first to organize the team out of a public court.

Spot, if I understand raiden correctly. THE CLUBS organize the leagues, not just the teams. Each club has its own USTA league and they meet for playoffs between clubs toward the end of the year.

If there are public courts, and you had a team that wanted to play on public courts, you would have to start your own USTA league.

JRstriker12
02-11-2009, 10:52 AM
All you have to do is sign up with Ingrid. However, a whole team from indoor can not play as a whole team in outdoor...there is a 2 player rule that prevents that...thereby preventing a dominant team from 'taking over' both leagues in a particular level.

Nobody organizes it because it involves some extra volunteer work. *shrug* I really like outdoor, and I've been one of the people who help organize it...I think it is worth it. If you told Ingrid you were interested, she could help you.

We play at Wakefield Park and Nottoway Park. We also have daytime outdoor leagues, too.

I actually asked Ingrid about outdoor at one point and she basically told me the same thing. I still find it strange that not one single guy has taken the initiative. I'd much prefer to play a full match - as I tend to grind - than get a time-out loss.

However, between tennis, the Kid, and Grad school, I have no extra time, so JRS won't be the one to get it going at this point.

spot
02-11-2009, 11:34 AM
I think if you talked to the USTA and told them you wanted to have a team out of a public court then they would put you in the appropriate league. I just can't imagine how any club could have 8 4.0 teams in order to have even one 3.5 division. You would have to play against other clubs. And once youa re playing against other clubs then I cant' see how the USTA would be willing to exclude public courts. I mean maybe its just different here- I simply don't see why the USTA would prevent you from signing up as long as you had suitable courts.Just because no one has bothered to organize a team at a public court doesn't mean that they are prohibited from doing so. Raiden just says that he hasn't ever known a team to play out of a public court- not that he has tried to start one and was told by the USTA that it wasn't allowed. And I would be SHOCKED if the USTA did prohibit teams from playing on public courts simply because it would be giving those clubs a license to charge whatever they like to play. I just don't see where USTA would prevent you from playing wherever you like.

raiden031
02-11-2009, 11:56 AM
Spot, if I understand raiden correctly. THE CLUBS organize the leagues, not just the teams. Each club has its own USTA league and they meet for playoffs between clubs toward the end of the year.

If there are public courts, and you had a team that wanted to play on public courts, you would have to start your own USTA league.

You're absolutely right. This is how it is laid out within tennislink:

2009 Howard - Cattail Adult League (Cattail club)
2009 Howard - Circle D Tennis Club Adult League (Circle D club)
2009 Howard - Columbia Adult League (4 CA-run clubs)

I think if you talked to the USTA and told them you wanted to have a team out of a public court then they would put you in the appropriate league. I just can't imagine how any club could have 8 4.0 teams in order to have even one 3.5 division. You would have to play against other clubs. And once youa re playing against other clubs then I cant' see how the USTA would be willing to exclude public courts. I mean maybe its just different here- I simply don't see why the USTA would prevent you from signing up as long as you had suitable courts.Just because no one has bothered to organize a team at a public court doesn't mean that they are prohibited from doing so. Raiden just says that he hasn't ever known a team to play out of a public court- not that he has tried to start one and was told by the USTA that it wasn't allowed. And I would be SHOCKED if the USTA did prohibit teams from playing on public courts simply because it would be giving those clubs a license to charge whatever they like to play.


I don't think USTA has any jurisdiction over how the local leagues are run (other than ensuring they follow Nationals/Sectional/District rules). So they don't give a crap if you try to run a team from a public court to enter a club-run league and are denied. Pretty much the club runs the league within the USTA framework and if the club wants to manage courts for league play, thats their choice. However once the league season is over and it comes time for districts, the USTA district now has jurisdiction to ensure fairness in who qualifies for districts and so they have inter-league playoffs.

Ronaldo
02-11-2009, 11:58 AM
Not sure how many private clubs are in most cities, but we have had several close and the players needed to play independently. This is an outdoor league. The private clubs may not have enough players for each level or anyone willing to captain a team. If you want to play, start your own team.

Topaz
02-11-2009, 11:59 AM
I don't think USTA has any jurisdiction over how the local leagues are run (other than ensuring they follow Nationals/Sectional/District rules). So they don't give a crap if you try to run a team from a public court to enter a club-run league and are denied. Pretty much the club runs the league within the USTA framework and if the club wants to issue courts for league play, thats their choice.

Ok, I'm coming into this late...so you might have already answered this...what about your coordinator? In our area, the coordinator does all the scheduling of matches. If a team from a public court signed up and paid whatever fees to play, the coordinator would schedule them against the club teams, just like anyone else...right? Or, does your coordinator not do the scheduling?

I'm kind of glad the clubs only rent us space...makes me realize what a good job our coordinator is doing!

Topaz
02-11-2009, 12:03 PM
I actually asked Ingrid about outdoor at one point and she basically told me the same thing. I still find it strange that not one single guy has taken the initiative. I'd much prefer to play a full match - as I tend to grind - than get a time-out loss.

However, between tennis, the Kid, and Grad school, I have no extra time, so JRS won't be the one to get it going at this point.

This is how we did it...put up a bunch of flyers, advertising the excellent points of playing evening outdoor (two hours of play! cheaper fees! always done by 9pm!), and collected a bunch of names. Then, when we had enough names, we contacted people, got them signed up, and divided them into teams.

In my first year of outdoor, there was my team, and my friend's team. That was it. It has seen some nice growth every year...though it is still a small league (but that is one of the nice parts I think). Whoever wins advances to districts just like the indoor teams. And the competition is just as good. I think we had five teams in the 3.5 league last year.

So, I know you are busy - not saying that you should necessarily do this, but we certainly do have different leagues, we do play on public outdoor courts (that are reserved by our coordinator for our matches), and we get more than 90 minutes of play. As long as we have so many evening indoor adult teams and leagues, the restricted time limit is not going to change. I think it is a miracle Ingrid gets everything scheduled as it is!

raiden031
02-11-2009, 12:06 PM
Ok, I'm coming into this late...so you might have already answered this...what about your coordinator? In our area, the coordinator does all the scheduling of matches. If a team from a public court signed up and paid whatever fees to play, the coordinator would schedule them against the club teams, just like anyone else...right? Or, does your coordinator not do the scheduling?

I'm kind of glad the clubs only rent us space...makes me realize what a good job our coordinator is doing!

First let me start off mentioning that I am not sure if each of the three leagues I mentioned have their own coordinators or whether its the same coordinators for all three leagues (those within my county).

I know that there are two coordinators who work together to schedule matches for the main league in my area. All matches are played at the private clubs as mentioned. I have no clue what would happen if a team tried to join the league with a home facility that isn't run by the club, but I'm willing to bet they would be told no.

There are like 1200 people playing in this one league, so its not like we need to allow outside teams to compete. Although the Circle D league only has one skill division and probably a small number of teams, and even that league is not having any outside teams compete within it.

Ronaldo
02-11-2009, 12:14 PM
This really bites. Hope the private clubs never get the notion to exclude independent teams. We could have two leagues with each sending teams to district playoffs. This may also exclude teams from outside the immediate area. Currently have teams from 35-40 miles away.

spot
02-11-2009, 01:09 PM
Honestly- if you aren't willing to even call the coordinator to find out what the deal is then your club is making a mistake by not charging you even more.

Ronaldo
02-11-2009, 03:23 PM
Honestly- if you aren't willing to even call the coordinator to find out what the deal is then your club is making a mistake by not charging you even more.

Yes, after captaining an independent team, a breakdown of every charge was made and presented to each player prior to joining the team. The only fly in the ointment involved indoor court charges by the host club in case of rain.

saram
02-12-2009, 07:23 AM
We pay for court time and balls for USTA matches but we do not pay any amount just for fielding a team.

Court time if needed for rain matches--but during State Championship competition--the players to not have to cover the court time charges should an outdoor tournament suddenly find itself indoors.

raiden031
02-12-2009, 12:02 PM
Honestly- if you aren't willing to even call the coordinator to find out what the deal is then your club is making a mistake by not charging you even more.

Even if I wanted to avoid paying steep club fees, I couldn't even find enough players to form my own team anyways, nor do I have the time to show up to the matches in which I'm not playing.

spot
02-12-2009, 12:41 PM
Right- you would rather pay whatever the club charges rather than take any steps to find an alternative. I think you are lucky the club isn't charging you more and I think they are completely justified in charging what they do.

Ronaldo
02-12-2009, 05:00 PM
Court time if needed for rain matches--but during State Championship competition--the players to not have to cover the court time charges should an outdoor tournament suddenly find itself indoors.

And a free lunch buffet

raiden031
02-13-2009, 01:44 PM
Right- you would rather pay whatever the club charges rather than take any steps to find an alternative. I think you are lucky the club isn't charging you more and I think they are completely justified in charging what they do.

There are 1200 people unwilling to take these steps. At what point is the club not justified in charging these fees? I can't help it that the average income of a league player here is probably over $250K/year. If they can afford it, they will pay it. Its people like me who will start dropping off first because the fees get too high. So if 200 people decide not to play this year, is that enough to say the fee increase is unjust?

Whats most unfair is that people who play 10 matches pay the exact same amount as people who play 1 match.

spot
02-13-2009, 02:47 PM
Obviously the club is justified in charging those fees until people are tired enough of the fees to start looking for alternatives. I mean as long as people are happily paying and don't care enough to look for someplace cheaper then I really don't see the problem. I just don't see what the big deal is about starting a new team at a public facility if so many people are upset about the fees.

raiden031
02-13-2009, 04:46 PM
Obviously the club is justified in charging those fees until people are tired enough of the fees to start looking for alternatives. I mean as long as people are happily paying and don't care enough to look for someplace cheaper then I really don't see the problem. I just don't see what the big deal is about starting a new team at a public facility if so many people are upset about the fees.

I haven't heard anybody else complaining, probably because they are rich. I'm complaining because the club league fee increased from $20 to $50 in one year. That is a 150% increase.

Topaz
02-13-2009, 04:57 PM
I haven't heard anybody else complaining, probably because they are rich. I'm complaining because the club league fee increased from $20 to $50 in one year. That is a 150% increase.

FWIW, I'd be complaining, too! Holy moly! I thought it was bad that private lessons increased from 65 to 70 at my club!

Ah yes, I can back Raiden up on the fact that many people who play in our greater area have money to *buuuuuurn*. For me, I *hate* losing to the 'bored rich housewives'...they are better than me, though, because they can play a lot more (during the day) and aren't already exhausted by the time they hit the court. Ah well, I tell myself, I'll catch up with them someday!