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View Full Version : My forehand video, Coaches and pros in this forum, please critique!


lovethetriangle
01-28-2009, 06:27 PM
Thanks in advance, I appreciate it.

These are very simple drills as I'm coming off a 4 month layoff due to a disc injury in my back. I would really like to improve my form and optimize my forehand.

Backhand video soon.

Thanks guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRUTQdTYPyA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz2C-sZsYOs

The_Steak
01-28-2009, 07:22 PM
I would say that is a pretty solid forehand. I can't tell from the rear view but where are the balls landing?

Nice raquet head speed btw.

mg.dc
01-28-2009, 09:13 PM
Agreed. That's a nice stroke. Short and sweet. Very simple. Excellent racket speed. Mechanically I cannot see anything wrong.

There's just one thing I might mention, although I offer it as a consideration, not because I feel it is a necessity. In my mind, as I was watching the video, I was comparing your forehand to Verdasco's, since both of you are lefties. There's two things he does differently and thus perhaps you should take into consideration. First of all, Verdasco takes a bigger stroke than you. His take back is bigger, loopier. Also, I think he really exaggerates choking the neck of the racket with his non-dominant hand (right).

Notwithstanding this, your stroke is absolutely perfect in regard to simplicity, and most especially by the fact that you're not taking the racket back so far that it appears on the right plane -- in other words, it's great that you keep the stoke within the left plane. Perhaps you should compare your stroke to Verdasco's to compare his bigger swing which ables him to generate the most awesome pace.

The second thing you should perhaps consider is a little bit more knee bending as your coiling up as you prepare to uncoil and strike at the ball.

Nice forehand though. Looking forward to the backhand.

pushing_wins
01-28-2009, 10:04 PM
dont like it

too much spinning, making me dizzy

futuratennis
01-28-2009, 10:29 PM
im no expert but it looks like your using ur wrist too much :S ? i donno, they look pretty good to me

Djokovicfan4life
01-29-2009, 05:10 AM
Pretty nice forehand, overall. I noticed that you aren't leading with the elbow during your backswing though. I would highly recommend that you fix this as soon as possible for a better "pat the dog on the head" position, as well as improved elasticity in the wrist. When you lead with the racquet head, you are laying the wrist back prematurely. From there all it can do is swing forwards towards the ball.

You should have a neutral wrist during the takeback. That way, after you drop the racquet head below the path of the ball, your wrist will lay back naturally as you open the left hip towards the net. From there it will come forward a bit naturally as a result of the elasticity in the wrist. This is called the stretch shortening cycle, and it will give you easier power and access to much more spin.

Here's an example of leading with the elbow, albeit an extreme one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QMF5U-GdjE

Obviously you don't need to lead that much, but the idea is that your elbow should be pointing towards the back fence, rather than the racquet head.

LeeD
01-29-2009, 08:02 AM
OK, Mr.Nadal clone.... keep practicing, it's fine, hope you don't play hardcourts too soon.

Djokovicfan4life
01-29-2009, 08:20 AM
OK, Mr.Nadal clone.... keep practicing, it's fine, hope you don't play hardcourts too soon.

What? Seriously, why even bother posting crap like this?

LeeD
01-29-2009, 10:37 AM
Seriously ???
OP strokes and dress's like Nadal, so it's quite appropriate.
His strokes are pretty good.
He is playing on CLAY, or did you notice? Clay is the easiest surface to play on if you have long, Nadal esqe strokes.
Nadal had problems on hardcourts and grass for years, and finally, after 6 years, is getting better (for him) at the quicker bounces and skids.
So I suppose NOW you understand why I posted as I did, eh ??? :shock::shock:

Joe Average
01-29-2009, 12:32 PM
I was trying to figure out why your left foot was kicking out consistently like that? Then I realized that you're not turning your torso enough. Hitting open stance is fine. But it requires more shoulder turn. Your shoulders, at some point, need to be in a neutral/closed position. When you take back your racquet, your opponent (or, in this case, your ball feeder) should see some of your back. When you stretch out your non-hitting arm, it should be parallel to the baseline. So the lack of turn, I guess, accounts for that kick out of your left foot. It also, I suppose, affects your contact point.

junbumkim
01-29-2009, 01:38 PM
Seems like a nice forehand.
The only thing I would recommend is more forward extension to make it more penetrating.

Generally, poeple don't advise you to lead your backswing with elbow. Even these days, you see very few players who lead their forehand backswing with elbow.

oneguy21
01-29-2009, 01:41 PM
Seriously ???
OP strokes and dress's like Nadal, so it's quite appropriate.
His strokes are pretty good.
He is playing on CLAY, or did you notice? Clay is the easiest surface to play on if you have long, Nadal esqe strokes.
Nadal had problems on hardcourts and grass for years, and finally, after 6 years, is getting better (for him) at the quicker bounces and skids.
So I suppose NOW you understand why I posted as I did, eh ??? :shock::shock:

You can't compare pro level tennis to players like us. Just because he has a western grip and plays on a clay court doesn't mean he'll fail on hardcourts.

W Cats
01-29-2009, 02:20 PM
Hard to tell on the video but I get the sense that your rotational movements into the ball is rather stiff and locked -torso rotation is locked with arm swing. If that is the case work on making the movements more sequential, torso then arm. The old kinetic chain. A more relaxed hitting arm might facilitate your efforts.

LeeD
01-29-2009, 02:35 PM
Oneguy...
Did I say he will fail on hardcourts?
Or did I say it will be harder for him to employ his long strokes on hardcourts, possibly needing a bit more time on hardcourts before his strokes match his claycourt strokes?
Eh ?

Djokovicfan4life
01-29-2009, 07:18 PM
Seriously ???
OP strokes and dress's like Nadal, so it's quite appropriate.
His strokes are pretty good.
He is playing on CLAY, or did you notice? Clay is the easiest surface to play on if you have long, Nadal esqe strokes.
Nadal had problems on hardcourts and grass for years, and finally, after 6 years, is getting better (for him) at the quicker bounces and skids.

So I suppose NOW you understand why I posted as I did, eh ??? :shock::shock:

Ummm, no. Let's just go over all the crap you just wrote in a bit more detail.

1. OP's strokes and attire are similar to Nadal.

The guy is wearing a shirt shockingly similar to Federer's 2005 Australian Open outfit. Talk about total opposites, hahahaha! So anyone wearing a sleeveless shirt is a Nadal clone? I'll try to keep that in mind next time. By the way, I'm a serve and volleyer.

2. He is playing on CLAY, or did you notice? Clay is the easiest surface to play on if you have long, Nadal-esque strokes.

"Did I notice". Spare me.

You make it sound as though Nadal is the only person in the world who is allowed to play on clay. I guess he should receive royalty checks for any other clay court sightings?

3. Nadal had problems on hardcourts and grass for years, and finally, after 6 years, is getting better (for him) at the quicker bounces and skids.

So you automatically assume that clay is the only surface that this guy can play well on? And even if that were true, would it really be such a bad thing, since he's not exactly going to be qualifying for all 4 grand slams any time soon?

"So I suppose NOW you understand why I posted as I did, eh"???

In a word, no. In fact, I hope you understand now why your entire post was utter garbage from the very first letter.

herosol
01-29-2009, 07:54 PM
ahk just ignore LeeD

he is the perfect personification of the ultimate lurking forum-troll.
they say this species evolved from amoebas with too much arrogance.

i thought this was guy was just critical, now I know he's just an ***.

Solat
01-29-2009, 08:10 PM
LTT : the main issues i see on your FH are
#1 : footwork and balance, you are leaving your "loading" leg (left) too early therefore all your weight is up on your front foot, rather then being in a "seated" position during contact, you are then having to bring your left leg around to maintain balance which ends up going past your contact point and delaying your recovery. Look at this Verdasco (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=CoylZpelWLs) clip and how he stays down thru the stroke and maintains his position for ease of recovery

#2 Extension thru contact, look to develop a more linear racquet path to help drive the ball with pace and depth, related to your over-rotation of the trunk if you could hold your position thru the stroke you would find it easier to extend forward rather then wrap across

Djokovicfan4life
01-29-2009, 08:21 PM
That Verdasco clip is a thing of beauty, Solat. That guy is one of the smoothest looking players I've ever seen.

lovethetriangle
01-29-2009, 11:53 PM
Wow guys thanks very much, overwhelmed with the amount of stuff I can add to make my forehand better.

I will gather the data and follow the advice, and comeback with a new and improved video.

I'm gna have a lot of questions after the first time I play with your advices.

Damn I'm not looking forward to the mistakes on my backhand!

Cheers, I wish i found this site sooner.

wksoh
01-30-2009, 06:14 AM
I think you are perfect in my eyes... I have to learn from you..

Djokovicfan4life
01-30-2009, 11:00 AM
I think you are perfect in my eyes... I have to learn from you..

Awwwwwwwww, isn't that just precious?

http://animatedtv.about.com/library/graphics/spBigGayAl2.jpg

Slicendicer
01-30-2009, 02:25 PM
Pretty nice forehand, overall. I noticed that you aren't leading with the elbow during your backswing though. I would highly recommend that you fix this as soon as possible for a better "pat the dog on the head" position, as well as improved elasticity in the wrist. When you lead with the racquet head, you are laying the wrist back prematurely. From there all it can do is swing forwards towards the ball.

You should have a neutral wrist during the takeback. That way, after you drop the racquet head below the path of the ball, your wrist will lay back naturally as you open the left hip towards the net. From there it will come forward a bit naturally as a result of the elasticity in the wrist. This is called the stretch shortening cycle, and it will give you easier power and access to much more spin.

Here's an example of leading with the elbow, albeit an extreme one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QMF5U-GdjE

Obviously you don't need to lead that much, but the idea is that your elbow should be pointing towards the back fence, rather than the racquet head.

+1 I couldn't put a finger on it, but thats it.... the elbow is stationary during backswing and swing. Try to "roll" the shoulder to backswing, a loop type motion, but lead with the elbow.

lovethetriangle
01-30-2009, 07:02 PM
I think you are perfect in my eyes... I have to learn from you..

Despite this slightly uncomfortable feeling, I thank you.

Solat: Your advice was on the button, I watched my video as compared to verdasco's and this one, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-D32RwsD_w, and noticed exactly what you were saying.

Djokovicfan4life: I feel embarrassed to have never noticed the elbow, and I can't believe no coach I've ever trained with has ever brought that up!!! I will try it this afternoon. Thanks.

Djokovicfan4life
01-30-2009, 07:07 PM
Yes, leading with elbow is an absolute MUST unless you're a freak like the Williams sisters of something. Did you feel that your former coaches were really qualified to teach from your experiences with them? Because that's just basic technique right there. I guess you got the feed, feed, feed, up and leave type of coaches or something.

Mada
01-30-2009, 07:08 PM
What? Seriously, why even bother posting crap like this?

I'm not taking anybodies side, but he did remind me of Nadal watching the video. >.<

Edit: For the comment haha, it's a nice forehand; good racquet-head speed and depth.

Djokovicfan4life
01-30-2009, 07:19 PM
I'm not taking anybodies side, but he did remind me of Nadal watching the video. >.<

Edit: For the comment haha, it's a nice forehand; good racquet-head speed and depth.
Nadal's numero uno, no? Not a bad role model, I'd say.

lovethetriangle
01-30-2009, 09:27 PM
Yes, leading with elbow is an absolute MUST unless you're a freak like the Williams sisters of something. Did you feel that your former coaches were really qualified to teach from your experiences with them? Because that's just basic technique right there. I guess you got the feed, feed, feed, up and leave type of coaches or something.

Do you coach bro? and where? Seems like you really know your tennis. My first coach was a former ballboy that got good, 2nd coach was a top player in the country that charged a lot beause of that and I realized later he never ever paid attention to detail, 3rd coach was level 2 itf but obviously didn't notice the elbow. Although the third guy added a lot of depth to my forehand as it used to be purely loopy and wristy.

wksoh
01-30-2009, 09:53 PM
Awwwwwwwww, isn't that just precious?

http://animatedtv.about.com/library/graphics/spBigGayAl2.jpg

hehe.. I could never hit like that.....

lovethetriangle
01-31-2009, 06:34 PM
LTT : the main issues i see on your FH are
#1 : footwork and balance, you are leaving your "loading" leg (left) too early therefore all your weight is up on your front foot, rather then being in a "seated" position during contact, you are then having to bring your left leg around to maintain balance which ends up going past your contact point and delaying your recovery. Look at this Verdasco (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=CoylZpelWLs) clip and how he stays down thru the stroke and maintains his position for ease of recovery

#2 Extension thru contact, look to develop a more linear racquet path to help drive the ball with pace and depth, related to your over-rotation of the trunk if you could hold your position thru the stroke you would find it easier to extend forward rather then wrap across


I played yesterday and this confuses me a bit, how does one not turn the torso but turn the shoulders??

maratsafin5
01-31-2009, 06:56 PM
Nice power on the strokes, but if seems as if you lack depth on most shots.

Slicendicer
01-31-2009, 08:32 PM
LTT : the main issues i see on your FH are
#1 : footwork and balance, you are leaving your "loading" leg (left) too early therefore all your weight is up on your front foot, rather then being in a "seated" position during contact, you are then having to bring your left leg around to maintain balance which ends up going past your contact point and delaying your recovery. Look at this Verdasco (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=CoylZpelWLs) clip and how he stays down thru the stroke and maintains his position for ease of recovery

#2 Extension thru contact, look to develop a more linear racquet path to help drive the ball with pace and depth, related to your over-rotation of the trunk if you could hold your position thru the stroke you would find it easier to extend forward rather then wrap across

+1 there is no legs at all during his forehand. he needs to bend knees and transfer body weight into the shot.

I don't agree with linear racquet path. he should open his shoulders with a wider circular motion, thus seeming to drive forward thru the ball.

Djokovicfan4life
02-01-2009, 10:33 AM
Do you coach bro? and where? Seems like you really know your tennis. My first coach was a former ballboy that got good, 2nd coach was a top player in the country that charged a lot beause of that and I realized later he never ever paid attention to detail, 3rd coach was level 2 itf but obviously didn't notice the elbow. Although the third guy added a lot of depth to my forehand as it used to be purely loopy and wristy.

No, I don't have any coaching experience at this time. I've got enough work to do on my own horrible game. My comments on the coaching were just based on things I've heard on these forums, to be honest. I'm nothing special, trust me.

lovethetriangle
02-04-2009, 05:53 PM
I played yesterday and this confuses me a bit, how does one not turn the torso but turn the shoulders??

Bump! Solat I need you to answer this please.. thanks!

Tomek_tennis
02-05-2009, 01:08 AM
You've go turn both. Why are you asking this quation?

Regarding that Verdasco vid. It's a defensive, very situational ball. You con't want to practice that realy! I don't know why there is such example here?

Here is a good example of Petrova practicing her strokes. Notice, how her legs rotate like yours, but after her ravquet goes through contact zone. Look gow she transfers her weight from back leg to front leg and then rotates on the front foot. This type of shot you want to do when you are well set up for the ball and you have time (like in your practice).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zaq2hCGahc4&feature=channel_page

Regarding leading elbow and neutral wrist. Personaly I lead with an elbow but my wrist is cocked all the way. Many Pros does that too. I will experiment with this further. Interesting!

Bungalo Bill
02-06-2009, 07:33 AM
Thanks in advance, I appreciate it.

These are very simple drills as I'm coming off a 4 month layoff due to a disc injury in my back. I would really like to improve my form and optimize my forehand.

Backhand video soon.

Thanks guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRUTQdTYPyA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz2C-sZsYOs

Hey Love,

You have a nice forehand. Because it seems you have developed your style, I will give you a few things to work on.

1. Work on your feet/legs. Your ability to stay on your toes especially in those adjustments steps just before you swing to hit the ball is important. Too much heel on the groun for my liking with a somewhat clumpy footwork. Jump rope, butt kicks, sprints, calf work, and thigh work will help you here. Stay on your toes as much as possible and power should drive up from the legs

2. Work on a good controlled swing. Something that can be duplicated over an over again. Once you get this down, you really need to move on into tactics and incorporate your other strokes into your point play. At times, you were a bit overswinging on some of those balls. When you swing the most important thing to do is make clean contact with the ball on time. Try to maximize this vs. swinging harder for power. It seemed when you hit a good shot, you wanted to swing harder on the next shot. This is not a good strategy to take in tennis. By the looks of it, you already have power, now you need to work on ball control which will mean that you move thorugh the ball in a relaxed but controlled motion. you dont need to swing faster and faster to punish the ball and increases your chances to error. A lot of balls going out will happen in a match. You should learn to have a "rally" stroke that allows you to move the ball around all over the court with good consistency, good pace, and excellent placement even with angled balls.

Your goal here is to use your skill to work a point. You have moved on from trying to hit the ball with power. Power is overrated only fromthe standpoint when you have develped good ball pace on your strokes, more is not better. This kind of thinking hurts more players than it helps.

3. Work on your shoulder turn: You need to get that front shoulder under your chin. This will help you move your angluar momentum through the bal and most of your energy will be sent into the ball and not away from the ball. This will also help your ability to make cleaner contact.

4. Keep working on the non-dominant arm extending and folding back in.

5. Some of the things I liked:

a. you did stay on your toes and moved like that as you were waiting for the ball up till you made those few steps to execute your swing.

b. You lay the racquet down in the "pat the dog on the head" stuff very well. I really liked that.

c. In general, you displayed good energy and eagerness to take the next ball - you got ready.

Slicendicer
02-06-2009, 07:40 AM
No, I don't have any coaching experience at this time. I've got enough work to do on my own horrible game. My comments on the coaching were just based on things I've heard on these forums, to be honest. I'm nothing special, trust me.

Sorry, I just needed to quote this... :-?:shock::oops:

Bungalo Bill
02-06-2009, 08:18 AM
Sorry, I just needed to quote this... :-?:shock::oops:

Then let me quote your stuff if you dont mind.

Slicendicer
02-06-2009, 08:28 AM
Then let me quote your stuff if you dont mind.

Be my guest... I have not posted anything false or anything I wish to retract.

Djokovicfan4life
02-06-2009, 09:13 AM
Do you coach bro? and where? Seems like you really know your tennis. My first coach was a former ballboy that got good, 2nd coach was a top player in the country that charged a lot beause of that and I realized later he never ever paid attention to detail, 3rd coach was level 2 itf but obviously didn't notice the elbow. Although the third guy added a lot of depth to my forehand as it used to be purely loopy and wristy.

Private email no bueno.

Rickson
02-06-2009, 09:19 AM
That's a very compact swing. That's great against pace, but against marshmallows, perhaps a slightly bigger takeback would be in order.

Djokovicfan4life
02-06-2009, 09:34 AM
That's a very compact swing. That's great against pace, but against marshmallows, perhaps a slightly bigger takeback would be in order.

In theory, yes, a bigger swing equals more power. But IMO, the most important thing to focus on is clean contact and good timing and from here the rest will take care of itself. Proof, you say? Andre Agassi.

Matt

LeeD
02-06-2009, 09:37 AM
Absolutely...
Purely long strokes doesn't guarantee anything. No better example than AA, his short, quick strokes produce enough power to win from the baseline, thos he's standing atop it.
Less chance of error, more consistent, earlier prep, quicker prep, allows his short swings to be effective.

Slicendicer
02-06-2009, 11:00 AM
Takeback is not necessarily the "source of power". Torque-ing the upper body, and transferring weight into the shot is where power comes from. A big looping take back is style, not definitive technique.

For starters, the pro's hit the ball almost perfectly. The pro's are much stronger and explosive when hitting the ball. So, comparing yourself to a pro player may not be a good notion. Model yourself after a pro player is more beneficial. Also, the pro's hit the ball much harder to start the point, so just to block a 125MPH serve is gonna have a lot of pace to it.

lovethetriangle
02-09-2009, 07:35 PM
Takeback is not necessarily the "source of power". Torque-ing the upper body, and transferring weight into the shot is where power comes from. A big looping take back is style, not definitive technique.

For starters, the pro's hit the ball almost perfectly. The pro's are much stronger and explosive when hitting the ball. So, comparing yourself to a pro player may not be a good notion. Model yourself after a pro player is more beneficial. Also, the pro's hit the ball much harder to start the point, so just to block a 125MPH serve is gonna have a lot of pace to it.

I personally can't stand watching giant backswings, such as Wayne Ferreira or Soderling. Nasty!

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 07:53 PM
I personally can't stand watching giant backswings, such as Wayne Ferreira or Soderling. Nasty!

Gisela Dulko, aka, my soul mate. :)

The Ripper
02-09-2009, 08:08 PM
I think your stroke is very good! The one thing I see that could help is what my coach calls an "inside/out" motion - using the wrist, the hand and racket lay back behind the hip just before striking the ball, so it moves "inside out" in the brief moments before contacting the ball. Others above mentioned this motion. It adds more power and puts the racket right where it needs to be for getting a clean strike. Try that!

mg.dc
02-09-2009, 08:17 PM
If you have time to prepare, take a big cut at the ball. Indeed Andre had compact strokes -- but only when he did not have sufficient time for a bigger stroke. Whenever he did have enough time, though, that is, to grip it and rip it, he took a huge cut at the ball.

If I remember correctly, Lansdorp recommends a big swing. A big swing does generate more power and is better to solidly drive through the ball with excellent pace, like Pete's big forehand.

maverick66
02-09-2009, 10:18 PM
like its been said your only problem is your follow through. your not extending. your trying to generat alot of top spin and that is good but if you could get that deep in the court it would be much better. if you hit heavy you gotta get it deep or people are gonna step back and take big cuts at it cause you cant hurt them. i agree with some people as well about extending your takeback but its not really that big of deal and if your not sure about it dont do it.

also watching pros is great and taking little things from them is always good but dont mimic. they swing that way because they natuarally do that. when they were nitpicking there strokes this is what came out. think the same way. dont think a pro does something i should to. think more along the lines of how can i improve what i have.

Bungalo Bill
02-10-2009, 06:50 AM
Private email no bueno.

The email is good. I am still receiving emails from various people here.

Again, it is usptapro@ctcweb.net

Djokovicfan4life
02-10-2009, 06:53 AM
The email is good. I am still receiving emails from various people here.

Again, it is usptapro@ctcweb.net

Was talking about LT, silly billy.

Rickson
02-10-2009, 06:54 AM
Is that triangle as in mma choke or basketball?

lovethetriangle
02-10-2009, 06:36 PM
Is that triangle as in mma choke or basketball?

Laker fan.

jefferson
02-10-2009, 06:51 PM
i thought you meant the triangle in your avatar!!
also my favorite mma submission.

forehand is solid especially if you just recovered from back surgery! hard to tell but i call the depth of your fh into question. i do prefer a deeper backswing, and more trunk turn to help w/ the depth. nice early prep

Rickson
02-10-2009, 07:06 PM
I'd have to go with the armbar as my favorite sub. There's nothing like a perfectly executed armbar although the triangle choke is my third favorite sub.

maverick66
02-10-2009, 08:03 PM
I'd have to go with the armbar as my favorite sub. There's nothing like a perfectly executed armbar although the triangle choke is my third favorite sub.

peruvian necktie is my favorite. cb dolloway goes for it all the time. even caught rampage on the ultimate fighter with it. its a nasty move.

Rickson
02-10-2009, 08:11 PM
Meet me at one of the UFC threads.

BabolatPureStorm
02-10-2009, 08:31 PM
Good solid forehands, Bend your knees and get low. Thats the only thing that you MAY need. you kinda keep your knees locked a bit but besides that very, very nice.

Rickson
02-10-2009, 09:03 PM
I'd still like to see a little bigger takeback from triangle.

Blake0
02-17-2009, 01:18 PM
You were hitting a ball?...on some of those forehands i couldnt even see the ball come to you. Besides that good strokes. If at all, i recommend you trying to get a longer backswing so you can hit it harder.