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View Full Version : Somebody please explain to me why this racket feels so powerful


meowmix
01-29-2009, 12:19 PM
The specs don't seem to indicate it, but the racket I'm currently playing with is at once the most powerful and the most controlled racket I've ever played with. The Wilson Graphite Matrix MS is an 85cm2, 16mm beam, 16 by 19 string pattern, about 13 ounce racket with a stiffness of 45. It's more powerful than anything I've played with, including a PDC. The only thing that even comes close is the k6.1 95 16 by 18... Is weight/plow through THAT much of a deciding factor in terms of power?

zidane339
01-29-2009, 12:27 PM
I felt the K90 was the powerful racquet I ever played with. maybe the weight does have a lot to do with it.

ag200boy
01-29-2009, 02:25 PM
balance? SW?

VGP
01-29-2009, 02:31 PM
strings? tension?

d-quik
01-29-2009, 02:42 PM
wilson never made a frame with a 85 centimeter squared head, this is a sham

Fay
01-29-2009, 02:44 PM
I have a Prince Classic Graphite at 13.9 oz. and strung at 60 lbs or os.
I absolutely love the feel of it and I can play for 5 hours without it bothering my elbow or shoulder ... I tried some of the newer racquets and altho they *did* add some zing to my serve, the groundstrokes would send vibrations to my arm, so I'm sticking with this one. I think graphite is a good substance.

RoddickAce
01-29-2009, 02:58 PM
The specs don't seem to indicate it, but the racket I'm currently playing with is at once the most powerful and the most controlled racket I've ever played with. The Wilson Graphite Matrix MS is an 85cm2, 16mm beam, 16 by 19 string pattern, about 13 ounce racket with a stiffness of 45. It's more powerful than anything I've played with, including a PDC. The only thing that even comes close is the k6.1 95 16 by 18... Is weight/plow through THAT much of a deciding factor in terms of power?

You must be hitting the sweetspot everytime and have a pretty fast swing speed!

mawashi
01-29-2009, 04:18 PM
The specs don't seem to indicate it, but the racket I'm currently playing with is at once the most powerful and the most controlled racket I've ever played with. The Wilson Graphite Matrix MS is an 85cm2, 16mm beam, 16 by 19 string pattern, about 13 ounce racket with a stiffness of 45. It's more powerful than anything I've played with, including a PDC. The only thing that even comes close is the k6.1 95 16 by 18... Is weight/plow through THAT much of a deciding factor in terms of power?

Looks like you got a real player's frame there:

Thin beam, small head size n 45RA = super control.
13 oz = ball killer

That's why.

If you can try to get a K90 n lead it up to to 13oz you'll get something similar.

Think you have a idea why the PS85 was so loved : )

mawashi

gymrat76
01-29-2009, 04:29 PM
this racq is 16mm?? that is even less than 17mm of PS85!
Could you please post some pics of this frame?

matchmaker
01-29-2009, 04:32 PM
The specs don't seem to indicate it, but the racket I'm currently playing with is at once the most powerful and the most controlled racket I've ever played with. The Wilson Graphite Matrix MS is an 85cm2, 16mm beam, 16 by 19 string pattern, about 13 ounce racket with a stiffness of 45. It's more powerful than anything I've played with, including a PDC. The only thing that even comes close is the k6.1 95 16 by 18... Is weight/plow through THAT much of a deciding factor in terms of power?

Well, I can totally understand you. I have 3 Wilson Reflex mids. The first one I bought for fun, to have a nice vintage frame. I went out to play with it and the first two times balls were flying on me. But not in a way I did not think I could make swing adaptations to keep it in. The racquet did feel controled and had a good grip on the ball. Once I adapted my swing I was hitting winners all over the court. I then bought two more.

These racquets also weigh 13 oz strung with vibe dampener and overgrip, 85 sq. inch and have a 18-19 mm beam. I don't know about the flex, feels medium/flexy and the swingweight must be very high too. They bomb serves and are rock solid to volley with. Moreover, it is the only racquet that does not give me TE.

Old school racquet rock and are more powerful than one would ever suspect.

mawashi
01-29-2009, 05:07 PM
Well, I can totally understand you. I have 3 Wilson Reflex mids. The first one I bought for fun, to have a nice vintage frame. I went out to play with it and the first two times balls were flying on me. But not in a way I did not think I could make swing adaptations to keep it in. The racquet did feel controled and had a good grip on the ball. Once I adapted my swing I was hitting winners all over the court. I then bought two more.

These racquets also weigh 13 oz strung with vibe dampener and overgrip, 85 sq. inch and have a 18-19 mm beam. I don't know about the flex, feels medium/flexy and the swingweight must be very high too. They bomb serves and are rock solid to volley with. Moreover, it is the only racquet that does not give me TE.

Old school racquet rock and are more powerful than one would ever suspect.

Exactly, that's why I don't get why there's all this fuzz about newer tech at all? After all a frame is just graphite, carbon, kevlar or some other basic materials.

I'm loving Vantage frames just cus they are classic in feel but modern in construction n materials.

A well designed frame is all you really need.

Found this bout the Wilson Graphite Matrix MS n still trying to get the specs of the frame:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2428765160046297772XgdPva
Kal-El 34 posted his frame here, maybe he'll know more bout the materials of the frame
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=3060449
newnuse mentioned:
"It was 60/40 Fiberglass/Graphite. It might have been 40/60 Fiberglass/Graphite. I don't remember exactly but am pretty sure it was 60% Fiberglass."

mawashi

meowmix
01-29-2009, 05:14 PM
strings? tension?

I had some syn gut at 63 pounds before, now I have kirsh competition at 52. Both shouldn't be insanely powerful setups.

The balance point feels to be about 5 pts hl or so, and the sw is at least in the high 330's. It feels harder to swing the the k 6-1 95.

As for pics, I don't have a camera handy, but here's a link to a pretty good pic:

http://www.woodtennis.com/sampras/prostaff60x4a.jpg

I have the one on the far right.

Supposedly, this racket is a tweener version of the ps 85. If this thing's a tweener, then the PD must be a granny stick...

meowmix
01-29-2009, 05:16 PM
Mawashi, I dug through quite a bit of links from google and found the info I posted above. Its stiffness is 45, and beam width of 16mm. According to the forum post where I found that info, the racket weighs 12.5 ounces strung. I say that's off. It feels quite a bit heftier than a k 6-1 95. Hence, my estimate of 13 ounces (but then again, I do have two og's on.)

mawashi
01-29-2009, 05:37 PM
Well, 15g off by hand measurement isn't bad LOL!

Kidda throws a spanner into the mkting of these big companies huh? A well designed frame that's suitable to you will always play better than a lot of the newer stuff.

mawashi

fuzz nation
01-29-2009, 05:45 PM
When I was looking for racquets that would work better from the baseline than my stiff old 6.1 Classics, I actually got hip to heavier, more flexible mids like the Prince NXG - mine are 13 oz. I also have a couple of LM Prestige mids that are weighted up to 13.4 oz and I think that in both cases, the extra flex tilts the ratio of spin vs. power toward the more spin friendly end of the spectrum for me and the way I hit the ball. If you have a more spin friendly racquet and it's also heavier, it can also thump the ball better when you take a full swing, right? More power along with more control!

There is such a thing as a racquet that's too heavy - those Prestiges are a bit much for me on some days - but compared with my ProStaffs and the inherent pop that comes with their stiffness, I can take the same swing with the stable NXG and easily make enough spin to keep the ball down on the court. Your experience sounds pretty similar to mine in terms of the different performance you've found with the different frame. It literally took me a couple of months to adapt my swing tempo to the heavier racquets, but I took up with them when I needed to make an investment in my game and I've made substantial progress over the last few years.

meowmix
01-29-2009, 05:54 PM
Well, 15g off by hand measurement isn't bad LOL!

Kidda throws a spanner into the mkting of these big companies huh? A well designed frame that's suitable to you will always play better than a lot of the newer stuff.

mawashi

Yeah, it really does. I've played with a good dozen or so rackets over the past year and half (short demoes mostly). k95's, ktour's, ksurges, pdc's, lm/fxp/mg rads, fxp prestige, tt warrior, etc. The racket that I thought was the best out of the ones I tried was the Gamma Ipex 7.0- a really noodle of a stick. One of the least marketed, and least "technologically advanced" rackets out there, but IMO, one of the best. This 23 year old dinosaur completely blows anything new that I've tried out of the water in terms of comfort, feel, and just sheer playability.

mawashi
01-29-2009, 05:55 PM
Power is very simple yet the excution of design to achieve that is all important.

Want a light frame to hit with power, simple make it stiffer, larger n/or head heavy.

Side effect, insufficient vibration absorbsion, lowered control etc...

Of course there is a limit to playability vs mass n it's important to know your physical limitation so trying to swing like Nadal using a 13 oz frame is just asking for trouble unless you're that good.

Simply, play with a heavy enough frame that lets you handle almost any shots well, improve your skills, anticipaton n you'll play better n more importantly longer & pain free.

mawashi

Bud
01-29-2009, 05:56 PM
Mawashi, I dug through quite a bit of links from google and found the info I posted above. Its stiffness is 45, and beam width of 16mm. According to the forum post where I found that info, the racket weighs 12.5 ounces strung. I say that's off. It feels quite a bit heftier than a k 6-1 95. Hence, my estimate of 13 ounces (but then again, I do have two og's on.)

I'll weigh and balance mine... which is brand new and bone stock... right down to the original strings (see below).


http://lh5.ggpht.com/_RLIYzXhfZQ0/SH3dx1N087I/AAAAAAAABZI/2nri60D5XGg/s800/P1020945.JPG


http://lh6.ggpht.com/_RLIYzXhfZQ0/SH3do7CJsLI/AAAAAAAABYM/gvlmoeFKWZU/s800/P1020938.JPG


Specs:

Wilson Graphite Matrix Mid 85 (no PWS)
85 sq. in.
16x19
18 mm beam
Grip L4
12.7 oz./360 grams
5 pts. HL
Graphite/fiberglass composite

meowmix
01-29-2009, 06:02 PM
Wow, thanks bud. I guess I can't measure beam widths eh?

And where the heck did you get a brand new one of those?!!!

wallymann
01-29-2009, 06:04 PM
whomever that is, shoot me an email...i have a line on a couple w/ L4 grips.

meowmix
01-29-2009, 06:05 PM
Yeah, I was looking for a few. However, with the one that I have coming in, and another that I'm about to send money for, I should have enough.

mawashi
01-29-2009, 06:05 PM
Holy cow, 5 pts hl 360g, that thing must have a sw of something like 365g or more.

mawashi

mawashi
01-29-2009, 06:08 PM
Yeah, I was looking for a few. Email sent.

LOL! Young guy using old frames! Do yourself a fav, give a heavy Vantage 63ra a try! You don't know what you're missing out : )

mawashi

Bud
01-29-2009, 06:10 PM
Holy cow, 5 pts hl 360g, that thing must have a sw of something like 365g or more.

mawashi

Yes, I thought the same thing when I weighed and balanced it. The fact it's partially fiberglass/flexible and weighs nearly 13 oz. with a fairly low HL balance is why it feels so solid and comfy to Meow.

meowmix
01-29-2009, 06:11 PM
I probably don't, but I don't really want to try out any more frames because I'm afraid I'm going to fall in love with it... And I DEFINATELY can't afford a $200+ price tag per racket.

Bud
01-29-2009, 06:14 PM
I probably don't, but I don't really want to try out any more frames because I'm afraid I'm going to fall in love with it... And I DEFINATELY can't afford a $200+ price tag per racket.

Have you tried the other Graphite Matrix with PWS? It's kind of a greenish/grey color. I think it was released prior to this black GM.

meowmix
01-29-2009, 06:31 PM
No, I haven't tried the other one yet. Yes, the grey one was released a few years earlier, in 82 I think. Supposedly, the grey matrix was the racket that the ps85 is based off of. Also, that racket is suppoed to be a bit harsher, less sweet, harder to swing (that thing's swingweight would probably be in the 370's?), and less forgiving. I've only found one of those so far, but the asking price was a little much.

mawashi
01-29-2009, 06:34 PM
I probably don't, but I don't really want to try out any more frames because I'm afraid I'm going to fall in love with it... And I DEFINATELY can't afford a $200+ price tag per racket.

LOL! I know what you mean :)


Oh well, when you're good enough maybe you can join the vantage team n get cheaper frames LOL JK!

Good luck with your new... eh old... eh classic frames :razz:

mawashi

meowmix
01-29-2009, 06:37 PM
I don't think I'm NEARLY good enough to join the Vantage team. But thanks anyways :)

It's also interesting... I'm now being FLOODED with offers for graphite matrixes. When I was buying this past weekend, it seemed like nobody had one...

mawashi
01-29-2009, 06:40 PM
Well, you know what they say, when it rains it pours LOL!

mawashi

meowmix
01-29-2009, 06:42 PM
Yes it does! Well, I can't complain.

BTW, for anybody looking to get rid of graphite matrixes, contact steveI. I can't possibly buy up all of these (despite me hoping to use these for the next... oh, 5 years). I know that he was interested in buying a few.

Bud
01-29-2009, 06:45 PM
No, I haven't tried the other one yet. Yes, the grey one was released a few years earlier, in 82 I think. Supposedly, the grey matrix was the racket that the ps85 is based off of. Also, that racket is suppoed to be a bit harsher, less sweet, harder to swing (that thing's swingweight would probably be in the 370's?), and less forgiving. I've only found one of those so far, but the asking price was a little much.

I have a couple somewhere in the back bedroom. I'll see if I can locate one and then post the specs for it.

meowmix
01-29-2009, 06:48 PM
Wow, seriously? How huge is your collection bud?!!

I don't think I'll purchase one unless I can get one for fairly cheap. I'm very happy with my current matrixes :)

Bud
01-29-2009, 07:11 PM
Wow, seriously? How huge is your collection bud?!!

I don't think I'll purchase one unless I can get one for fairly cheap. I'm very happy with my current matrixes :)

Not as huge as it once was :)

Mansewerz
03-07-2009, 10:51 AM
I remember drakulie saying that the K90 is actually more powerful than the PDR. The difference is that not as many people can utilize the K90 to get full power like they can with the pdr.

Tennis Dunce
03-07-2009, 11:14 AM
Those Matrixes look like some sweet sticks, seem tailor-made for racquet head acceleration...I sure hope one of the local thrift stores get one in soon.:)

I found a Graphite Aggressor w/ PWS at one of the thrifty's here last week for 5 bucks...it has the same stock cheapo nylon strings in it and it still hits with some serious ferocity...can't wait to put some new strings in it!

meowmix
03-09-2009, 01:52 PM
^Depends.

It's interesting... I have (apparently) two versions of the stick. One's about a full ounce or so heavier than the other. The heavier one also feels flexier. The lighter one gets insane head speed, and is really fun and easy to play with. The other is evenly balanced (or thereabouts), despite the 3 OG's on that racket. That racket serves BOMBS, but I can only play with it if I have my A-game. The heavier one was made in Taiwan (according to the buttcap). The other seems a lot older... maybe early 80's? That matrix has no TM's, its buttcap has no id country, and it has red primer (looks like).

pshulam
03-31-2009, 05:25 PM
Those Matrixes look like some sweet sticks, seem tailor-made for racquet head acceleration...I sure hope one of the local thrift stores get one in soon.:)

I found a Graphite Aggressor w/ PWS at one of the thrifty's here last week for 5 bucks...it has the same stock cheapo nylon strings in it and it still hits with some serious ferocity...can't wait to put some new strings in it!

The string job will cost more than the racket. How's racket with new string?

pshulam
03-31-2009, 05:48 PM
.. Its stiffness is 45, ..

Good job in finding the spec for the Matrix. The stiffness feels higher than 45 to me.

pshulam
03-31-2009, 05:53 PM
I probably don't, but I don't really want to try out any more frames because I'm afraid I'm going to fall in love with it... And I DEFINATELY can't afford a $200+ price tag per racket.

Good for you - self discipline. I should follow your footstep. That is, resist the temptation to acquire more rackets that I do not need or the time to play with them.