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Ali Abdullah
02-01-2009, 01:02 AM
My problem is that while playing the forehand I tend to take my eyes off the ball. My head is not still. One reason can be my shoulder turn . Second reason which I can think of is that I open up my shoulders to early. Actually both of these things are inter related. When I try to keep my head still, I do manage to do it but when I try to play an aggressive shot(especially when jumping and hitting) then my head turns away from the ball( due to the fact that my shoulders open to early[Left shoulder moves to early maybe due to the movement of my non hitting arm]) which results in framing the ball or less pace and topspin. I also tend to start arming the ball sometimes. You may associate all these problems with me not correctly transferring the weight of my body into the shot.

Can you tell me any off court and on court exercise that can minimize my problem of opening up the shoulders to early and learning to hit with the shoulders as well while keeping my head straight.

LeeD
02-01-2009, 03:21 PM
One GREAT tip BungalowBill taught all of us is to always try to turn shoulders, rackethand, and useless hand back in formation, so your whole hitting unit is sideways just before the foreward swing.
That way, not only are shoulders turned, but both hands insure you stay turned sideways to the ball until impact.
My forehand improved maybe 60% just from that little tip from BB. Now, peeps don't serve every ball to my forehand anymores:):)

Ali Abdullah
02-01-2009, 10:53 PM
One GREAT tip BungalowBill taught all of us is to always try to turn shoulders, rackethand, and useless hand back in formation, so your whole hitting unit is sideways just before the foreward swing.
That way, not only are shoulders turned, but both hands insure you stay turned sideways to the ball until impact.
My forehand improved maybe 60% just from that little tip from BB. Now, peeps don't serve every ball to my forehand anymores:):)

Ok heres my deal. I get the whole sideways formation made perfectly, its the FORWARD swing that creates problems for me. Any drill or excercise that can FORCE me to do the forward swing correctly as in tell me how to correctly rotate my shoulders backwards so that I dont open open my shoulders to quickly and in turn taking my eyes off the ball etc?

LeeD
02-02-2009, 07:53 AM
I guess you can look at players with great forehands and notice they get their arm going, then the shoulder rotation forwards.
Basic thing you know..... you DO NOT HIT THE BALL facing the opponent! You hit facing slightly sideways still, facing maybe 3/4 forwards, but still some sideways.
For me, to work this out, I had to hit some really hard forehands, and the natural kinetics figured out the shoulderturn/arm sequence. Hard as in CONTROLLED hard, not wild swinging.
You can take a bunch of balls, drop them and hit them for really fast hard forehands, and keep in mind your body/arm/shoulder rotation sequence.
Naturally, while lots of us do it differently, there is some common similarities.

Djokovicfan4life
02-02-2009, 07:58 AM
Ok heres my deal. I get the whole sideways formation made perfectly, its the FORWARD swing that creates problems for me. Any drill or excercise that can FORCE me to do the forward swing correctly as in tell me how to correctly rotate my shoulders backwards so that I dont open open my shoulders to quickly and in turn taking my eyes off the ball etc?
When you turn sideways, focus on tucking the left shoulder under your chin, assuming that you're right handed. Swing as you normally would and focus on a full 180 degrees of rotation with your body. The back shoulder should almost slide under your chin as a result of this, given that you kept your head still. This is the concept that Bungalo Bill is always talking about.



Best of luck to you.

Ali Abdullah
02-17-2009, 01:07 AM
In practicing this whole sequence im getting late on the ball. not enough power is coming into the shot and the spin has gone away. I dont get it :S

My forward swing has a problem. Or maybe I keep my wrist bent when i start my back swing n keep it that way till the forward is over. maybe thats causing a problem...arghhh!

Sublime
02-17-2009, 06:03 AM
I guess you can look at players with great forehands and notice they get their arm going, then the shoulder rotation forwards.
Basic thing you know..... you DO NOT HIT THE BALL facing the opponent! You hit facing slightly sideways still, facing maybe 3/4 forwards, but still some sideways.
For me, to work this out, I had to hit some really hard forehands, and the natural kinetics figured out the shoulderturn/arm sequence. Hard as in CONTROLLED hard, not wild swinging.
You can take a bunch of balls, drop them and hit them for really fast hard forehands, and keep in mind your body/arm/shoulder rotation sequence.
Naturally, while lots of us do it differently, there is some common similarities.

LeeD help me out here.

Looking at pro's strokes on YouTube it looks like they range anywhere from 45 degrees befor facing their opponent to actually facing away from their opponent on contact (ie shoulders are about 45 degrees past facing the net at impact) and all stops in between.

I seem to hit better shots on the facing away / over rotating side of the equation, but maybe I need to change that.

Does it change based on grip? Where you're aiming? How far you take the racquet back?

LeeD
02-17-2009, 12:07 PM
Yes, grip makes a diff in how far in front and how much shoulder turn.
Conti's turn the most, open up early, and hit the ball barely at the front shoulder on forehands.
SW is most common, so watching pros hit usually means they hit their technique with SW grip forehands.
I'd hit a wall, as hard as you can control, to find YOUR strike zone, and trial and error finds exactly your shoulder turn, footwork, and strikezone.

randomname
02-17-2009, 12:25 PM
I guess you can look at players with great forehands and notice they get their arm going, then the shoulder rotation forwards.
Basic thing you know..... you DO NOT HIT THE BALL facing the opponent! You hit facing slightly sideways still, facing maybe 3/4 forwards, but still some sideways.
For me, to work this out, I had to hit some really hard forehands, and the natural kinetics figured out the shoulderturn/arm sequence. Hard as in CONTROLLED hard, not wild swinging.
You can take a bunch of balls, drop them and hit them for really fast hard forehands, and keep in mind your body/arm/shoulder rotation sequence.
Naturally, while lots of us do it differently, there is some common similarities.

leeD is an idiot, please, please, please dont listen to a word he says, if you look at most of his other posts you'll see he has no credibility. anyway, just about everything about that post was wrong, you turn the shoulders before the arm, and your shoulders should be facing the opponent at contact, heres proof:

http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/videos/index.php/view/978/230/Tennis_Forehand_High_Speed_Video_Above

and

http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/videos/index.php/view/978/237/Frank_Salazar_Tennis_Forehand_Above

LeeD
02-17-2009, 12:30 PM
Yeah, and no player hits openstanced, none slice their forehands, and the textbook is the only way to hit a tennis ball.
Good luck... :):):)

randomname
02-17-2009, 01:12 PM
http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/videos/index.php/view/978/243/Oliver_Akli_Tennis_Forehand_Side

ok, theres an open stance, the OP didnt ask about slicing, and are you suggesting that textbook isnt the BEST way to hit the ball? That would defeat the purpose of it being textbook, sure, some people prefer to do it a different way but would you honestly rather have Santoro's forehand over Federer's?

LeeD
02-17-2009, 01:22 PM
Textbook changes every few years, so are you saying the old stuff is wrong?
Textbook is written with old knowledge, not what the current pros do.
Textbook is theory. If you live in the theory world, it works just fine.
Personally, I live in the real world. I see 40 pro forehands, and see 10 different techniques. I see 40 pro serves, and see 20 different techniques.
OK, you counter by saying they all swing forwards.:shock::shock: so they must be the same.

Ali Abdullah
03-11-2009, 10:53 PM
I've tried everything and failed!

Here are some videos for you guys from the back side and from the right side of me. I think this should show you something about my backswing n forward. Im so frustrated at the moment. Miss hitting the ball so much.
You can see from these videos about my body language. Im not even moving my feet cuz i know im not gonna hit well :S

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqJAtP6xebU check this video after 10 secs to get a proper view of my shots)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkvzz6_88So&feature=channel


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqId0LZW8NA&feature=channel

LeeD
03-12-2009, 08:43 AM
Thanks for the vid finally.....
OK, first of all, you are totally off balanced, so you can't get weight into any shots.
You should try to set your feet BEFORE swinging at the ball.
You tend to hit openstanced. That's FINE, but be aware, your swingpath is shorter than with closed stances, and it takes MORE practice to hit consistently with pace using open stances. Practice more.
And AFTER you strike the ball, your feet and body should be stable, not bouncing wildly off to all directions. That stability comes with getting to the call early, so you can almost wait for the ball to get to you, giving you a stable hitting platform that can employ the whole kinetic chain to give you power.
Instead of thinking of an impala being chased by a leopard, you should be thinking of the leopard chasing the impala.:shock::shock:

Sublime
03-12-2009, 09:21 AM
My footwork is spotty at best, so I'll leave that to LeeD.

Couple things I noticed...

First, look at the contact point and keep your eyes there after the ball is gone. If Federer is not above doing this, none of us are. On some shots it didn't even look like you turned your head in the direction of contact. This alone will help you a ton.

Second, seems like you're trying to pull the racket around, more than swing into the court. You should be trying to convert that rotation energy of the kinetic chain into linear motion into contact and beyond. Eventually your arm will straighten completely out and the momentum of the racket will cause the follow through over your shoulder. Pick out your angle of attack on the ball and send (allow) your racket to move through that path.

LeeD
03-12-2009, 11:07 AM
I have absolutely the worst footwork of any of you guys, for sure.
But I make it up with good shoulder turn, a million years of tennis, basketball, baseball, football, pingpong, and handball, and being involved in sports all my adult years.
But for learning any new stroke, good footwork is the foundation and the key to success.
Most of you didn't play championship pingpong, 3 years of varsity basketball, or 3 years of varsity football, so I had a head start before playing tennis.

Ali Abdullah
03-12-2009, 01:56 PM
My footwork is spotty at best, so I'll leave that to LeeD.

Couple things I noticed...

First, look at the contact point and keep your eyes there after the ball is gone. If Federer is not above doing this, none of us are. On some shots it didn't even look like you turned your head in the direction of contact. This alone will help you a ton.

Second, seems like you're trying to pull the racket around, more than swing into the court. You should be trying to convert that rotation energy of the kinetic chain into linear motion into contact and beyond. Eventually your arm will straighten completely out and the momentum of the racket will cause the follow through over your shoulder. Pick out your angle of attack on the ball and send (allow) your racket to move through that path.

You know these are the exact two points I thought of today. Great! Maybe we're on the right path now :D

Can you suggest some drills or some way I can rlly learn how to follow thru the ball... I tried trying to hit thru the ball by imagining hitting the ball with my elbow or something . It worked a little but i need some more know how.

Ali Abdullah
03-12-2009, 02:00 PM
Thanks for the vid finally.....
OK, first of all, you are totally off balanced, so you can't get weight into any shots.
You should try to set your feet BEFORE swinging at the ball.
You tend to hit openstanced. That's FINE, but be aware, your swingpath is shorter than with closed stances, and it takes MORE practice to hit consistently with pace using open stances. Practice more.
And AFTER you strike the ball, your feet and body should be stable, not bouncing wildly off to all directions. That stability comes with getting to the call early, so you can almost wait for the ball to get to you, giving you a stable hitting platform that can employ the whole kinetic chain to give you power.
Instead of thinking of an impala being chased by a leopard, you should be thinking of the leopard chasing the impala.:shock::shock:


Ill work on that . I too think that my body is all over the place! thank you for the response .

Sublime
03-13-2009, 05:35 AM
You know these are the exact two points I thought of today. Great! Maybe we're on the right path now :D

Can you suggest some drills or some way I can rlly learn how to follow thru the ball... I tried trying to hit thru the ball by imagining hitting the ball with my elbow or something . It worked a little but i need some more know how.

There's a few catch phrases that might help, "Go shoulder to shoulder" and "imagine hitting 3 balls".

The "shoulder to shoulder" one, means be looking over your non-hitting shoulder at the contact zone before the swing to contact and be looking over your hitting shoulder at the contact zone during the follow through. This will help you get your hitting shoulder into the court soon after contact.

The "imagine hitting 3 balls" one is fairly self explanatory. The one thing that may not be obvious, is you're not trying to 3 balls lined up in the path of the incoming ball, but in the path of your swing (towards your target). Sometimes I focus a foot in front of the ball in the direction I want to hit it. I swing through the ball, by focusing on hitting the spot a foot in front of the ball. Same idea though.

Ali Abdullah
03-14-2009, 07:13 AM
There's a few catch phrases that might help, "Go shoulder to shoulder" and "imagine hitting 3 balls".

The "shoulder to shoulder" one, means be looking over your non-hitting shoulder at the contact zone before the swing to contact and be looking over your hitting shoulder at the contact zone during the follow through. This will help you get your hitting shoulder into the court soon after contact.

The "imagine hitting 3 balls" one is fairly self explanatory. The one thing that may not be obvious, is you're not trying to 3 balls lined up in the path of the incoming ball, but in the path of your swing (towards your target). Sometimes I focus a foot in front of the ball in the direction I want to hit it. I swing through the ball, by focusing on hitting the spot a foot in front of the ball. Same idea though.

Not working :( This former davis cup player for Pakistan said that im taking a big swing which is going behind my shoulder and thats making me slap the ball. Is he right?

Sublime
03-16-2009, 09:32 AM
This former davis cup player for Pakistan said that im taking a big swing which is going behind my shoulder and thats making me slap the ball. Is he right?

If a former Davis Cup player is giving you advice, you should definitely look into it. :)

It's kind of hard to tell due to the frame rate, but I think what he's saying is that your racket face is going behind the line with your shoulders during your take back.

Look at these pics of Fed from Tennis.com:
http://www.tennis.com/uploadedImages/Your_Game/Instruction_Articles/Forehand/2007_06_11_federer_forehand_1.jpg
http://www.tennis.com/uploadedImages/Your_Game/Instruction_Articles/Forehand/2007_06_11_federer_forehand_3.jpg
http://www.tennis.com/uploadedImages/Your_Game/Instruction_Articles/Forehand/2007_06_11_federer_forehand_2.jpg

Fed keeps the racket face on the side of his body he's going to hit on. So the less the racket faces moves in unneeded directions, the easier it is to control it.

5263
03-16-2009, 01:50 PM
I have students to practice trunk rotation exercises each day in warmup,

BUT with holding the head fixed still, eyes on a target.

This teaches the shoulders and hips to turn for power, but with the head being independent and still, with eyes focused on an object.
Most of us call it muscle memory although someone will get excited and say the muscle has no memory. hahaha

javierjavier
03-16-2009, 05:20 PM
i think you should worry less about body position and start focusing more on watching the ball through contact. this will keep your head down and still during contact and help you make better contact with the ball.

there are several drills and it doesn't necessarily have to be tennis related. i've read some tennis coaches will draw shapes on tennis balls and require players to call out the shape as they hit the ball. baseball hitting coaches have similar drills.

if you're mishitting the ball constantly you should worry less about mechanics and just focus more on keeping your eye on the ball.

LeeD
03-16-2009, 05:20 PM
You DO take a big fast swing, but you don't employ legs or limit your shoulder rotations.
So use your current stroke/technique for general baseline groundies, then when you want that extra zip, employ more forward body movement, closed stance, and more linear (as opposed to heavily topspun) shots.
Lots of good players rally just by arming, then when they play for real and need a heavier ball, use their legs and torso to get the extra power.
It appears you are not very big, so using more kinetic chain would help with more power and pace.
As for consistency, you just gotta hit more balls.
Your strokes are grooved, solid, and fast swinging already.

Ali Abdullah
03-17-2009, 08:27 AM
If a former Davis Cup player is giving you advice, you should definitely look into it. :)

It's kind of hard to tell due to the frame rate, but I think what he's saying is that your racket face is going behind the line with your shoulders during your take back.

Look at these pics of Fed from Tennis.com:
http://www.tennis.com/uploadedImages/Your_Game/Instruction_Articles/Forehand/2007_06_11_federer_forehand_1.jpg
http://www.tennis.com/uploadedImages/Your_Game/Instruction_Articles/Forehand/2007_06_11_federer_forehand_3.jpg
http://www.tennis.com/uploadedImages/Your_Game/Instruction_Articles/Forehand/2007_06_11_federer_forehand_2.jpg

Fed keeps the racket face on the side of his body he's going to hit on. So the less the racket faces moves in unneeded directions, the easier it is to control it.

Ya I've noted federer but there are some pro players who take the racket head behind there shoulder. If they can manage it then i should also be able to manage it if not now then still in the long run.

Ali Abdullah
03-17-2009, 08:29 AM
I have students to practice trunk rotation exercises each day in warmup,

BUT with holding the head fixed still, eyes on a target.

This teaches the shoulders and hips to turn for power, but with the head being independent and still, with eyes focused on an object.
Most of us call it muscle memory although someone will get excited and say the muscle has no memory. hahaha

Could you kindly tell me these trunk rotation exercies? One thing that always confuses me is that should I keep my hips facing the net or turn them with the shoulders on an open stance forehand? And if I do rotate them with the shoulders then do i start the forward swing with my hips moving first and then shoulders following or shoulders first or both at the same time?