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Djokovicfan4life
02-05-2009, 04:58 PM
As titled.

Tennis Myths Exposed: The Importance of Natural Talent
by Matthew Hill

I've been playing guitar for around 10 years. I began ripping away incessantly, first under the influence of my dad's KISS Alive album, followed
by an obsession with all things RUSH, which then slowly migrated to an interest in more solo oriented guitar playing as I've slowly
began to see myself steadily progressing as a player. The reason I am so confident in my abilities as a player is quite simple: work ethic. If you expected to see the word talent in place of that phrase, then sit down, shut your mouth, and buckle up. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

I’ve always been perceived as “talented” at the guitar. My friends used to ask me how I was getting so good. It was obvious to me that they were smoke blowing in every sense of the word. The reason for their special ed complexes with the instrument was directly stemmed from a lack of discipline and efficient playing. Now it’s important to note that there have been several times in my playing career when I’ve felt completely burned out, simply unwilling to put in the effort for one reason or another. Yet when I come back to it I almost seem to be better than I was prior to my bouts with exhaustion with the instrument.

I believe that the reason for this bizarre experience is linked directly to one core principle: Discipline. My reasoning for this is based purely on the incredible influence on my own playing that I’ve experienced when my stubborn mind finally learned to stop thinking and rather to just do it. In the end, I've found that the most important thing we can ever do for our playing is the learn how to help ourselves. But why am I talking about my experiences with the electric guitar as an important factor to winning tennis, anyway? If your response to this resembled something of this nature, then you may do yourself a favor by reading on a little further.

Every day I hear the same essential concept being rehashed time and again about the game of tennis and just about anything else in life in general. How people choose to phrase it may differ slightly, but the underlying principle is the same almost every time: It’s all about natural ability. Now stop yourself for a second and ponder what it means to you as a tennis player. Perception is key to winning tennis, so it is crucial in the early stages of your development that you learn to analyze how you perceive things as a person.

This reminds me of the first time I saw Star Wars: Episode 4: A new hope. Sure, I thoroughly enjoyed the actions, the struggles, and the innovations that are very much a part of the film, but something that I heard from a rather “dull” moment of the movie really caught my attention as well. Ironically enough, the most interesting concept in the entire film for me was when Obi-Wan Kenobi said that he hadn’t lied to Luke about his parents being murdered at all because his real father died the day he betrayed the Jedi and became a Sith lord. Rather touching if you’re 8 or 9 years old, I think, but the real moment of brilliance came in the very next sentence. He went on to say that in reality he had been completely honest with Luke all the while, “from a certain point of view”. Now bear in mind that from Luke’s end of the spectrum, this was simply a bold faced lie, plain and simple. However, on the other end, Obi-Wan’s perception of this concept was entirely different altogether.

More to come.

Edit: WTF! No double spacing for some reason. How do I fix this?

NoNameZ
02-05-2009, 09:21 PM
wow...this is a really good article, cant wait for more!

Djokovicfan4life
02-05-2009, 09:57 PM
wow...this is a really good article, cant wait for more!

Thanks for the support..... much more to come. :)

Did you notice anything I could've done better so far, by any chance?

furyoku_tennis
02-05-2009, 10:56 PM
Good stuff. Can't wait to see what myths you expose.

Bud
02-05-2009, 11:09 PM
Thanks for the support..... much more to come. :)

Did you notice anything I could've done better so far, by any chance?

Is it an article or a school paper? :)

Bud
02-05-2009, 11:16 PM
Thomas Edison stated, when he was queried about his inventive mind... "Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration."

Tennis is the same... the harder you work the better you get and the more successful you are. If you work twice as hard as someone with a pretty good amount of natural ability you'll beat them every time.

There is no substitute for hard work.

knasty131
02-05-2009, 11:25 PM
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." -Socrates

I'm not saying you are wrong by any means, I was just curious how you felt this quote pertained to your thought on how perception is a big key in life. Can't wait to hear your response, the article is coming along well. Once the final thoughts are put into place and some editing is done, you've got yourself a fine article my friend.

Bud
02-05-2009, 11:36 PM
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." -Socrates

I'm not saying you are wrong by any means, I was just curious how you felt this quote pertained to your thought on how perception is a big key in life. Can't wait to hear your response, the article is coming along well. Once the final thoughts are put into place and some editing is done, you've got yourself a fine article my friend.

Who are you referring to?

knasty131
02-05-2009, 11:41 PM
Who are you referring to?

Sorry, I was talking about the OP. He went on the tangent on Star Wars how it opened his eyes in the sense of how perception can change yet both seem right. I was wondering how he responds to that perception of knowledge whether it be applied to life in general or in sports. Or hell, if it is even applicable in sports (specifically ones that are very technical such as tennis).

Bud
02-05-2009, 11:51 PM
Sorry, I was talking about the OP. He went on the tangent on Star Wars how it opened his eyes in the sense of how perception can change yet both seem right. I was wondering how he responds to that perception of knowledge whether it be applied to life in general or in sports. Or hell, if it is even applicable in sports (specifically ones that are very technical such as tennis).

Just checkin' ;-)

knasty131
02-05-2009, 11:56 PM
Just checkin' ;-)

I could totally imagine you thinking I was talking about your post and wondering what the hell I was trying to get at because that would make NO sense.

Bud
02-06-2009, 12:18 AM
I could totally imagine you thinking I was talking about your post and wondering what the hell I was trying to get at because that would make NO sense.

Exactly :)

CoachingMastery
02-06-2009, 07:00 AM
Read my article on "Unconscious Competency" on TennisOne.

In all things, all people, those with so-called "natural propensities" and those who have to work at becoming skilled, typically go through four stages:

1. Unconscious Incompetence: They are clueless and don't know what the heck they are doing.

2. Conscious Incompetence: Recognizing they don't know how to execute skilled actions;

3. Conscious Competence: Learning the correct methods and movements but have to consciously execute them thinking about specific points of the movements or old habits/movements take over;

4. Unconscious Competence: Through discipline, drive, dedication, determination, and time, the player can execute practiced movements without conscious thought correctly and under pressure.

I too was a guitar player and begged anyone who played to show me things. I was dedicated to learning to play it well and accomplished all that I thought I could and more on the instrument. (Playing in nightclubs throughout southern California.)

I was about as far from "Naturally gifted" on the instrument as anyone could have been. I was also not natrually gifted in music as I had no natural musical rhythm nor could I carry a tune by singing. But, eventually, I gained a wonderful sense of rhythm and remembering one night during a bass solo, (I started playing bass later on because I couldn't locat decent bass players), I had a solo in a song when a friend came up and asked me a question. I continued to play the part perfectly without any thought to what I was doing while I answered the question to my friend. This 'announced' to me that I had mastered the guitar to a level that I now call Unconscious competence.

Good luck in writing your thoughts. As a writer myself, I recommend you know your subject matter inside and out.

Slicendicer
02-06-2009, 07:22 AM
Im confused... is the premise of the article that to excel in tennis is natural ability or hard work?

I can say as a former guitar teacher and tennis coach, anybody can play guitar/tennis... how well you play is up to the individual.

Djokovicfan4life
02-06-2009, 07:28 AM
Im confused... is the premise of the article that to excel in tennis is natural ability or hard work?

I can say as a former guitar teacher and tennis coach, anybody can play guitar/tennis... how well you play is up to the individual.

Ding ding ding ding ding. Thank you.

Slicendicer
02-06-2009, 07:30 AM
Ding ding ding ding ding. Thank you.

Still not sure what that means... but you're welcome.

Sublime
02-06-2009, 07:42 AM
I heard an interview with Tony Dungy and he said something to the effect of:
"If you want to be great at Football or anything else, you have to be extraordinary. Only 1/1000th of 1% of people are born extraordinarily physically gifted... so likely your best chance at being great is to be extraordinary in your dedication and drive"

Djokovicfan4life
02-06-2009, 07:57 AM
I heard an interview with Tony Dungy and he said something to the effect of:
"If you want to be great at Football or anything else, you have to be extraordinary. Only 1/1000th of 1% of people are born extraordinarily physically gifted... so likely your best chance at being great is to be extraordinary in your dedication and drive"

Excellent. Will use when I see an opening. Appreciate the help.

Matt

Sentinel
02-06-2009, 10:12 AM
Djoko, interesting topic. I may land up hitting you head on on this.

Are all the players who never make the top 10 or 20 just not putting in enough effort?

I don;t know about tennis, but in other sports natural ability is very measurable. In athletics for example the quantity of fast twitch muscle fibers is measured in sprinters. Surely you know of fast and slow twitch. People with higher quantities can run faster with much less training.

Similarly in endurance events, other than a large quantity of slow twitch fibers, the o2 processing ability has also been measured -- ml of oxygen per kg of bodyweight per second. These factors greatly determine how far a person can go.

I can talk in considerable detail about the above. But lets get back to tennis.
From what i can see, court speed is very important. That's very much based on genetics. I would like to guess that just as fast twitch fibers play a role in leg speed, similarly serve speed and forehand speed could also be determined largely by this (other than things such as flexibilty, mechanics etc).

More on this later. First, I am not sure whether I am going off in a wrong direction !

Djokovicfan4life
02-06-2009, 10:21 AM
Djoko, interesting topic. I may land up hitting you head on on this.

Are all the players who never make the top 10 or 20 just not putting in enough effort?

Tough to say, but remember that there are plenty of great players out there and only 20 spots available in the top 20. Just saying, there's only room for so many players, you know.

I don;t know about tennis, but in other sports natural ability is very measurable. In athletics for example the quantity of fast twitch muscle fibers is measured in sprinters. Surely you know of fast and slow twitch. People with higher quantities can run faster with much less training.

Sure, but I prefer to bypass all of the scientific labeling of God's creations and get straight to the point. Answer to the rest coming soon, if you care.

Similarly in endurance events, other than a large quantity of slow twitch fibers, the o2 processing ability has also been measured -- ml of oxygen per kg of bodyweight per second. These factors greatly determine how far a person can go.

Once again, don't care. It's irrelevant to me.

I can talk in considerable detail about the above. But lets get back to tennis.
From what i can see, court speed is very important. That's very much based on genetics. I would like to guess that just as fast twitch fibers play a role in leg speed, similarly serve speed and forehand speed could also be determined largely by this (other than things such as flexibilty, mechanics etc).

More on this later. First, I am not sure whether I am going off in a wrong direction !

More to come, not going to give away the story, you know! Nice try though, LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Matt

MordredSJT
02-06-2009, 10:23 AM
Since you asked for ways to make this better...I will give two quick things to fix. The second sentence begins with, "I ripping away incessantly"...this is missing at least one word for it to really make sense.

Also, it was actually Return of the Jedi when Obi-Wan and Luke had the "a certain point of view" discussion...not A New Hope.

Djokovicfan4life
02-06-2009, 10:27 AM
Since you asked for ways to make this better...I will give two quick things to fix. The second sentence begins with, "I ripping away incessantly"...this is missing at least one word for it to really make sense.

Also, it was actually Return of the Jedi when Obi-Wan and Luke had the "a certain point of view" discussion...not A New Hope.

Haha, OK. Former SW fan club member, perhaps? And yes, I can be prone to throw in an occasional typo. This is just a rough draft, however.

Matt

thejoe
02-06-2009, 10:29 AM
Do you have an Ultimate-Guitar account?

Djokovicfan4life
02-06-2009, 10:31 AM
Do you have an Ultimate-Guitar account?

Not at this time. Love the transcriptions on that site though. Forum can be a tad immature at times though. I prefer the Harmony-central boards for guitar related discussion, personally. Why?

Matt

Bungalo Bill
02-06-2009, 10:34 AM
Read my article on "Unconscious Competency" on TennisOne.

In all things, all people, those with so-called "natural propensities" and those who have to work at becoming skilled, typically go through four stages:

1. Unconscious Incompetence: They are clueless and don't know what the heck they are doing.

2. Conscious Incompetence: Recognizing they don't know how to execute skilled actions;

3. Conscious Competence: Learning the correct methods and movements but have to consciously execute them thinking about specific points of the movements or old habits/movements take over;

4. Unconscious Competence: Through discipline, drive, dedication, determination, and time, the player can execute practiced movements without conscious thought correctly and under pressure.

I too was a guitar player and begged anyone who played to show me things. I was dedicated to learning to play it well and accomplished all that I thought I could and more on the instrument. (Playing in nightclubs throughout southern California.)

I was about as far from "Naturally gifted" on the instrument as anyone could have been. I was also not natrually gifted in music as I had no natural musical rhythm nor could I carry a tune by singing. But, eventually, I gained a wonderful sense of rhythm and remembering one night during a bass solo, (I started playing bass later on because I couldn't locat decent bass players), I had a solo in a song when a friend came up and asked me a question. I continued to play the part perfectly without any thought to what I was doing while I answered the question to my friend. This 'announced' to me that I had mastered the guitar to a level that I now call Unconscious competence.

Good luck in writing your thoughts. As a writer myself, I recommend you know your subject matter inside and out.

Hmmm...very good, the Conscious Competency Theory. This model was promoted in its earliest stage by the US Gordon Training International Organization. Nobody knows for sure who actually invented this Learning Model.

They are also trying to add a fifth stage: Conscious competence of unconscious competence." This would describe a person's ability to recognize and develop unconscious incompetence in others.

Further, David Baume has suggested something called "reflective competance.

Good stuff Dave.

thejoe
02-06-2009, 10:35 AM
Not at this time. Love the transcriptions on that site though. Forum can be a tad immature at times though. I prefer the Harmony-central boards for guitar related discussion, personally. Why?

Matt

Ah right. I've been playing guitar for 5 years, and I have an account. Sections of the forums are great. I use the Bands and Artists section, but I avoid the Pit. I should probably move this to the Odds and Ends section, but do you have any recordings?

Djokovicfan4life
02-06-2009, 10:41 AM
Ah right. I've been playing guitar for 5 years, and I have an account. Sections of the forums are great. I use the Bands and Artists section, but I avoid the Pit. I should probably move this to the Odds and Ends section, but do you have any recordings?

I can join if you'd like, but I may not soar to 3000 posts over night like on this board, LOL!!!!!!!!! Just saying.

This should be a private discussion anyway.

Bungalo Bill
02-06-2009, 10:55 AM
As titled.

Tennis Myths Exposed: The Importance of Natural Talent
by Matthew Hill

I've been playing guitar for around 10 years. I ripping away incessantly, first under the influence of my dad's KISS Alive album, followed
by an obsession with all things RUSH, which then slowly migrated to an interest in more solo oriented guitar playing as I've slowly
began to see myself steadily progressing as a player. The reason I am so confident in my abilities as a player is quite simple: work ethic. If you expected to see the word talent in place of that phrase, then it may be beneficial for you to read a bit further.

I’ve always been perceived as “talented” at the guitar. I remember my friends used to ask me how I was getting so good. Of course, I was aware that it was important to take their constant smoke blowing with a grain of salt. The reason, you ask? They never learned to play guitar in the same fashion that I did. Now it’s important to note that there have been several times in my playing career when I’ve felt completely burned out, simply unwilling to put in the effort for one reason or another. Yet when I come back to it I almost seem to be better than I was prior to my bouts with exhaustion with the instrument.

I believe that the reason for this bizarre concept is linked directly to one core principle: Discipline. My reasoning for this is based purely on the incredible influence on my own playing that I’ve experienced when my stubborn mind finally learned to stop thinking and rather to just do it. In the end, I've found that the most important thing we can ever do for our playing is the learn how to help ourselves. But why am I talking about my experiences with the electric guitar as an important factor to winning tennis, anyway? If your response to this resembled something of this nature, then you may do yourself a favor by reading on a little further.

Every day I hear the same essential concept being rehashed time and again about the game of tennis and just about anything else in life in general. How people choose to phrase it may differ slightly, but the underlying principle is the same almost every time: It’s all about natural ability. Now stop yourself for a second and ponder what it means to you as a tennis player. Perception is key to winning tennis, so it is crucial in the early stages of your development that you learn to analyze how you perceive things as a person.

This reminds me of the first time I saw Star Wars: Episode 4: A new hope. Sure, I thoroughly enjoyed the actions, the struggles, and the innovations that are very much a part of the film, but something that I heard from a rather “dull” moment of the movie really caught my attention as well. Ironically enough, the most interesting concept in the entire film for me was when Obi-Wan Kenobi said that he hadn’t lied to Luke about his parents being murdered at all because his real father died the day he betrayed the Jedi and became a Sith lord. Rather touching if you’re 8 or 9 years old, I think, but the real moment of brilliance came in the very next sentence. He went on to say that in reality he had been completely honest with Luke all the while, “from a certain point of view”. Now bear in mind that from Luke’s end of the spectrum, this was simply a bold faced lie, plain and simple. However, on the other end, Obi-Wan’s perception of this concept was entirely different altogether.

More to come.

Edit: WTF! No double spacing for some reason. How do I fix this?

Excellent! Good introduction.

The following might help and I tried to bold the areas. I am not an English major so take the following for what it is.

1. YOU HAD ME AT RUSH!: KISS used to be my favorite band in high school and I still enjoy listening to their songs. However, Rush is still one of my all-time favorite bands. I too played music (brass instruments) and we worked our tail off practicing tough music in jazz, rock, symphonic, and classical. It was frustrating and rewarding nearly at the same time. Mainly frustrating. :) It takes a lot of discipline even with natural ability to learn how to play an instrument well. And yes, I am an American Idol fanatic!! I love to listen and watch people with music talent!

2. Good for starters but you took the reader out to discipline then brought him to "perception", you are going to tie all of this back to discipline right? Or what? Have you thought about it? Or maybe I read it wrong.

3. The first "concept" should be changed to "experience". You experienced something even though it was bizzarre.

4. The other concept word I would change to "part".

And yes, Obi and the Jedi saw things from the internal or eternal side of things vs. just the physical. Although Luke had a lot of talent and skill, he was not mature enough in the spiritual/eternal side of things to understand what Obi meant when he said Lukes Father was dead.

Not to turn this into a religion class but the bible also describes mans spiritual life or death as compared to their physical life or death. Hence the verse, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." It is also why Nicodemus didnt understand what Christ meant when he said "you must be born again." Christ was speaking of the spiritual side of things and not the physical.

Anyway, great work!! The definition of concept is:

an abstract or general idea inferred or derived from specific instances

Slicendicer
02-06-2009, 11:54 AM
Ah right. I've been playing guitar for 5 years, and I have an account. Sections of the forums are great. I use the Bands and Artists section, but I avoid the Pit. I should probably move this to the Odds and Ends section, but do you have any recordings?

Yeah... do you have any recordings? I'd like to hear some, as I am an avid musician.

Djokovicfan4life
02-06-2009, 12:57 PM
Excellent! Good introduction.

The following might help and I tried to bold the areas. I am not an English major so take the following for what it is.

1. YOU HAD ME AT RUSH!: KISS used to be my favorite band in high school and I still enjoy listening to their songs. However, Rush is still one of my all-time favorite bands. I too played music (brass instruments) and we worked our tail off practicing tough music in jazz, rock, symphonic, and classical. It was frustrating and rewarding nearly at the same time. Mainly frustrating. :) It takes a lot of discipline even with natural ability to learn how to play an instrument well. And yes, I am an American Idol fanatic!! I love to listen and watch people with music talent!

2. Good for starters but you took the reader out to discipline then brought him to "perception", you are going to tie all of this back to discipline right? Or what? Have you thought about it? Or maybe I read it wrong.

3. The first "concept" should be changed to "experience". You experienced something even though it was bizzarre.

4. The other concept word I would change to "part".

And yes, Obi and the Jedi saw things from the internal or eternal side of things vs. just the physical. Although Luke had a lot of talent and skill, he was not mature enough in the spiritual/eternal side of things to understand what Obi meant when he said Lukes Father was dead.

Not to turn this into a religion class but the bible also describes mans spiritual life or death as compared to their physical life or death. Hence the verse, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." It is also why Nicodemus didnt understand what Christ meant when he said "you must be born again." Christ was speaking of the spiritual side of things and not the physical.

Anyway, great work!! The definition of concept is:

an abstract or general idea inferred or derived from specific instances

Am in the process of updating right now, so it'll look a tad disjointed for now. As for the English major thing: I've got that covered. College can be a cool experience at times.

Bungalo Bill
02-06-2009, 01:37 PM
Am in the process of updating right now, so it'll look a tad disjointed for now. As for the English major thing: I've got that covered. College can be a cool experience at times.

Good, I really liked the Jedi thing. Also, Luke's other issue (and I can't remember which Star Wars) was that he had natural talent but he wasn't disciplined. At least that is what I remember. I might be wrong.

Anyway, you got me listening to some Rush songs now! haha

Bagumbawalla
02-06-2009, 05:03 PM
You have a good, natural, "voice", and your basic writing skills are there. You should be encouraged to continue this work.

One suggestion is that, in general, the greater mass of people tend to have a very short attention span. Your writing should resemble stepping stones across a river of confusion, that leads them (step by step) to the conclusion you want them to see.

So, my first suggestion is to be a bit less mystical, cute and wordy, and get more to the point (if you really want this to be published- assuming it is not just a vanity piece).

In general, people dislike reading about somene talikng about themself, and what they do, and their accomplishments, and their thoughts. You could find other, perhaps, well-known figures to use as examples.

And though your "writer's voice" is interesting, it is also a bit chatty, conversational and rambling- and could use some "tightening up" and pruning of redundant material.

Also, there are some awkward constructions-- "stemmed from a lack of discipline and efficient playing"-- should really be "stemmed from a lack of dicipline and inefficient playing".

The part about being "burnt out" belongs somewhere else and does not add to the idea you were developing (at least not in an obvious way).

"I believe that the reason for this bizarre experience is linked directly to one core principle: Discipline."-- be more specific about "this bizarre experience-- too vague, poorly constructed, awkward, and does not refer back to anything that makes ties it together.

"My reasoning for this is based purely on the incredible influence on my own playing that Iíve experienced when my stubborn mind finally learned to stop thinking and rather to just do it." Be more specific abour what "this" is. Also, this is a very vague, rambling sentence that could use some structure.

"If your response to this resembled something of this nature"-- This is just poor writing, you can do better.

Rather than go on, line by line, because the problems are similar, I just suggest that you go back and re-read the passage and ask yourself how you might say the same sort of thing in a simpler, more straight-forward way-- getting to the point as directly and clearly as possible. This is a very short segment. In a longer work, poeple will get tired and confused, and give up on you- even though your basic concept, obviously, has value.

JCo872
02-06-2009, 07:00 PM
As titled.

Tennis Myths Exposed: The Importance of Natural Talent
by Matthew Hill

I've been playing guitar for around 10 years. I ripping away incessantly, first under the influence of my dad's KISS Alive album, followed
by an obsession with all things RUSH, which then slowly migrated to an interest in more solo oriented guitar playing as I've slowly
began to see myself steadily progressing as a player. The reason I am so confident in my abilities as a player is quite simple: work ethic. If you expected to see the word talent in place of that phrase, then sit down, shut your mouth, and buckle up. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

I’ve always been perceived as “talented” at the guitar. My friends used to ask me how I was getting so good. It was obvious to me that they were smoke blowing in every sense of the word. The reason for their special ed complexes with the instrument was directly stemmed from a lack of discipline and efficient playing. Now it’s important to note that there have been several times in my playing career when I’ve felt completely burned out, simply unwilling to put in the effort for one reason or another. Yet when I come back to it I almost seem to be better than I was prior to my bouts with exhaustion with the instrument.

I believe that the reason for this bizarre experience is linked directly to one core principle: Discipline. My reasoning for this is based purely on the incredible influence on my own playing that I’ve experienced when my stubborn mind finally learned to stop thinking and rather to just do it. In the end, I've found that the most important thing we can ever do for our playing is the learn how to help ourselves. But why am I talking about my experiences with the electric guitar as an important factor to winning tennis, anyway? If your response to this resembled something of this nature, then you may do yourself a favor by reading on a little further.

Every day I hear the same essential concept being rehashed time and again about the game of tennis and just about anything else in life in general. How people choose to phrase it may differ slightly, but the underlying principle is the same almost every time: It’s all about natural ability. Now stop yourself for a second and ponder what it means to you as a tennis player. Perception is key to winning tennis, so it is crucial in the early stages of your development that you learn to analyze how you perceive things as a person.

This reminds me of the first time I saw Star Wars: Episode 4: A new hope. Sure, I thoroughly enjoyed the actions, the struggles, and the innovations that are very much a part of the film, but something that I heard from a rather “dull” moment of the movie really caught my attention as well. Ironically enough, the most interesting concept in the entire film for me was when Obi-Wan Kenobi said that he hadn’t lied to Luke about his parents being murdered at all because his real father died the day he betrayed the Jedi and became a Sith lord. Rather touching if you’re 8 or 9 years old, I think, but the real moment of brilliance came in the very next sentence. He went on to say that in reality he had been completely honest with Luke all the while, “from a certain point of view”. Now bear in mind that from Luke’s end of the spectrum, this was simply a bold faced lie, plain and simple. However, on the other end, Obi-Wan’s perception of this concept was entirely different altogether.

More to come.

Edit: WTF! No double spacing for some reason. How do I fix this?

This is great! One book that comes to mind is Gladwell's new one, "Outliers", which reaches similar conclusions. There is no question in my mind that we put far too little stock in repetition and hard work and far too much in "natural talent". Gladwell talks about the 10,000 hour rule - which basically says that it takes 10,000 hours of practice at a complex skill to reach an "elite" world class level. That's a lot of work!

The other piece of the puzzle here is technique. Dave Smith has a term for it - "advanced foundation" - which refers to the core positions and body movements needed to hit the ball wall. No matter how athletic you are, if you don't model this foundation, you won't hit the ball well. And without instruction, it is pretty much impossible to discover these positions and motions on your own. If you combine the advanced foundation with repetition and hard work, good things will happen.

CoachingMastery
02-06-2009, 07:35 PM
Hmmm...very good, the Conscious Competency Theory. This model was promoted in its earliest stage by the US Gordon Training International Organization. Nobody knows for sure who actually invented this Learning Model.

They are also trying to add a fifth stage: Conscious competence of unconscious competence." This would describe a person's ability to recognize and develop unconscious incompetence in others.

Further, David Baume has suggested something called "reflective competance.

Good stuff Dave.

Thanks Bill for some historical background on this learning theory. I can't remember where I first heard it, I believe at a USPTA Convention...I will have to look back on all my notes on where I got it from.

I always like the idea that we are all products of other people's ideas. Sort of standing on the shoulders of giants. While I have developed many of my own theories, analogies, drills, progressions, and what-not, they, in turn, are subject to some input of hundreds of others; be it students or masters of our craft!

Djokovicfan4life
02-06-2009, 10:05 PM
This is great! One book that comes to mind is Gladwell's new one, "Outliers", which reaches similar conclusions. There is no question in my mind that we put far too little stock in repetition and hard work and far too much in "natural talent". Gladwell talks about the 10,000 hour rule - which basically says that it takes 10,000 hours of practice at a complex skill to reach an "elite" world class level. That's a lot of work!

The other piece of the puzzle here is technique. Dave Smith has a term for it - "advanced foundation" - which refers to the core positions and body movements needed to hit the ball wall. No matter how athletic you are, if you don't model this foundation, you won't hit the ball well. And without instruction, it is pretty much impossible to discover these positions and motions on your own. If you combine the advanced foundation with repetition and hard work, good things will happen.
Yes, this last paragraph highlights my focus in this particular article. Attempting to show that anyone can develop world class technique if they set their mind to it. However, if they want to become world class.......................

Matt

ttbrowne
02-07-2009, 07:50 AM
Yeah, Let's not leave out how your body would respond to World Class Tennis. Your current body makeup. Besides all the ability to hit the shots, there is the question of how good your body holds up against injuries.

Djokovicfan4life
02-07-2009, 08:11 AM
You have a good, natural, "voice", and your basic writing skills are there. You should be encouraged to continue this work.

One suggestion is that, in general, the greater mass of people tend to have a very short attention span. Your writing should resemble stepping stones across a river of confusion, that leads them (step by step) to the conclusion you want them to see.


Yes, I'm in the process of updated to make it more direct, read the first paragraph for a sample if you get the time.

So, my first suggestion is to be a bit less mystical, cute and wordy, and get more to the point (if you really want this to be published- assuming it is not just a vanity piece).

In general, people dislike reading about somene talikng about themself, and what they do, and their accomplishments, and their thoughts. You could find other, perhaps, well-known figures to use as examples.

Yes, will use examples from others; I'd like to think that I'm not THAT self-absorbed, LOL.

And though your "writer's voice" is interesting, it is also a bit chatty, conversational and rambling- and could use some "tightening up" and pruning of redundant material.

Also, there are some awkward constructions-- "stemmed from a lack of discipline and efficient playing"-- should really be "stemmed from a lack of dicipline and inefficient playing".

Lack of inefficient = efficient.

The part about being "burnt out" belongs somewhere else and does not add to the idea you were developing (at least not in an obvious way).

"I believe that the reason for this bizarre experience is linked directly to one core principle: Discipline."-- be more specific about "this bizarre experience-- too vague, poorly constructed, awkward, and does not refer back to anything that makes ties it together.

"My reasoning for this is based purely on the incredible influence on my own playing that I’ve experienced when my stubborn mind finally learned to stop thinking and rather to just do it." Be more specific abour what "this" is. Also, this is a very vague, rambling sentence that could use some structure.

"If your response to this resembled something of this nature"-- This is just poor writing, you can do better.

Updated.

Rather than go on, line by line, because the problems are similar, I just suggest that you go back and re-read the passage and ask yourself how you might say the same sort of thing in a simpler, more straight-forward way-- getting to the point as directly and clearly as possible. This is a very short segment. In a longer work, poeple will get tired and confused, and give up on you- even though your basic concept, obviously, has value.

Yes. Working on it.

Lotto
02-09-2009, 08:20 AM
Well, I agree that developing World Class Technique is one thing but developing into a World Class tennis player or World Class athlete is a different story I believe. Athletically you either have it or you don't, yes everyone can reach a certain level but even through work ethic it's not possible to develop into a Nadal or Federer or any other world class athlete from other sports like Usain Bolt without having the genetics.

Nice article though.

EDIT** Also, Jeff which Gladwell are we talking about here? Bill Gladwell, the hypnotist or Malcolm Gladwell, the journalist, author and pop sociologist? Or another one completely?

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 08:23 AM
Well, I agree that developing World Class Technique is one thing but developing into a World Class tennis player or World Class athlete is a different story I believe. Athletically you either have it or you don't, yes everyone can reach a certain level but even through work ethic it's not possible to develop into a Nadal or Federer or any other world class athlete from other sports like Usain Bolt without having the genetics.

Nice article though.

Yes, I agree. I never said that anyone could turn pro though. Obviously those guys have a pretty big "head start" on the rest of the crowd, comparable to starting a marathon 10 miles ahead. But Heath Waters will tell you that ANYONE can develop world class technique through the power of muscle memory.

Matt

CoachingMastery
02-09-2009, 11:15 AM
Well, I agree that developing World Class Technique is one thing but developing into a World Class tennis player or World Class athlete is a different story I believe. Athletically you either have it or you don't, yes everyone can reach a certain level but even through work ethic it's not possible to develop into a Nadal or Federer or any other world class athlete from other sports like Usain Bolt without having the genetics.

Nice article though.

EDIT** Also, Jeff which Gladwell are we talking about here? Bill Gladwell, the hypnotist or Malcolm Gladwell, the journalist, author and pop sociologist? Or another one completely?

From my experience, very few people really "know" if they have what it takes to reach "world class" in anything. The striking issue for me is that if a player does not learn (is not taught) optimal skills and patterns associated with world-class play, they will NEVER discover if they "have it" or not.

The reality is this: I've seen "gifted" athletes fail at reaching such levels while at the same time, I've taught those who appeared to be far less gifted far surpass those who had the "gift"...

In reality, I don't believe you can identify at an early point, who can take tennis (or any skilled activity) to the world-class level. Sure, I can identify within five minutes who will be able to quickly acquire associated skills, (and who will take a little longer at it). But, there have been far too many examples in my experience of those who didn't even appear to "have it" make it to a far higher level than anyone might have expected or guessed. But one thing is certain, if a player is taught (or learns) with flawed methodology, they will NEVER reach that level of potential.

There can be several reasons for this and these must be understood: If a gifted athlete is taught inadequate methods (read: taught mediocre levels early on so they can "play tennis quickly"...) they will fail to capitalize on their athleticism. Also, a gifted player can be far more lazy, having things come more easily to them early on and hence, didn't learn to "work" to achieve things. I don't care how gifted you are, if you don't work hard to capitalize on your gifts, then you won't reach your potential.

I've found that few players are truly so uncoordinated that they can't achieve high skill levels. I've found that the overwhelming preventitive measure is not athleticism but methodology. Either the player was 'self taught' and did not understand, let alone practice, skilled play, or they developed nuances that were not 'caught' and proceded to cause flawed issues within so-called skilled attempts.

Or, very sadly, in my opinion, they listened to the hundreds of books and pros who advocate learning 'mediocre' methods first with the assumption that at some time they would make the "transition" to more advanced grips, stroke patterns and footwork later. This latter issue is, again in my opinion, the major cause of why a) so many millions of players never move out of the typical 3.0 or 3.5 levels, b) why the U.S. produce such a small ratio of top-level players (world-class) compared to our afluence and population, c) why tennis is viewed as a "sissy" sport among many teens or high-school aged players, d) why so many players end up quitting tennis because they simply can't make the transition and fail to get any better even though they play for years and even take lessons regularly!

These are some of my points that I present in my books too.

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 11:18 AM
Exactly, CM. You can practice that eastern forehand serve for the rest of your life and chances are it will never have the pace and spin of one that was developed effectively and efficiently. Will check out your book when I get some cash to throw around. Need a radar gun and college education first. No bueno.

Matt

Bud
02-11-2009, 01:52 AM
Thomas Edison stated, when he was queried about his inventive mind... "Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration."

Tennis is the same... the harder you work the better you get and the more successful you are. If you work twice as hard as someone with a pretty good amount of natural ability you'll beat them every time.

There is no substitute for hard work.

Im confused... is the premise of the article that to excel in tennis is natural ability or hard work?

I can say as a former guitar teacher and tennis coach, anybody can play guitar/tennis... how well you play is up to the individual.

I heard an interview with Tony Dungy and he said something to the effect of:
"If you want to be great at Football or anything else, you have to be extraordinary. Only 1/1000th of 1% of people are born extraordinarily physically gifted... so likely your best chance at being great is to be extraordinary in your dedication and drive"

Excellent. Will use when I see an opening. Appreciate the help.

Matt

I think many of us are saying the same thing... it's mostly about hard work.

Djokovicfan4life
02-11-2009, 02:11 AM
I think many of us are saying the same thing... it's mostly about hard work.

Really?

Respectfully disagree. Personally, I wait for a mythical dragon named Puff to teach me winning tennis.

Matt

Moz
02-11-2009, 04:30 AM
As titled.

Tennis Myths Exposed: The Importance of Natural Talent
by Matthew Hill

I've been playing guitar for around 10 years. I began ripping away incessantly, first under the influence of my dad's KISS Alive album, followed
by an obsession with all things RUSH, which then slowly migrated to an interest in more solo oriented guitar playing as I've slowly
began to see myself steadily progressing as a player. The reason I am so confident in my abilities as a player is quite simple: work ethic. If you expected to see the word talent in place of that phrase, then sit down, shut your mouth, and buckle up. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

Iíve always been perceived as ďtalentedĒ at the guitar. My friends used to ask me how I was getting so good. It was obvious to me that they were smoke blowing in every sense of the word. The reason for their special ed complexes with the instrument was directly stemmed from a lack of discipline and efficient playing. Now itís important to note that there have been several times in my playing career when Iíve felt completely burned out, simply unwilling to put in the effort for one reason or another. Yet when I come back to it I almost seem to be better than I was prior to my bouts with exhaustion with the instrument.

I believe that the reason for this bizarre experience is linked directly to one core principle: Discipline. My reasoning for this is based purely on the incredible influence on my own playing that Iíve experienced when my stubborn mind finally learned to stop thinking and rather to just do it. In the end, I've found that the most important thing we can ever do for our playing is the learn how to help ourselves. But why am I talking about my experiences with the electric guitar as an important factor to winning tennis, anyway? If your response to this resembled something of this nature, then you may do yourself a favor by reading on a little further.

Every day I hear the same essential concept being rehashed time and again about the game of tennis and just about anything else in life in general. How people choose to phrase it may differ slightly, but the underlying principle is the same almost every time: Itís all about natural ability. Now stop yourself for a second and ponder what it means to you as a tennis player. Perception is key to winning tennis, so it is crucial in the early stages of your development that you learn to analyze how you perceive things as a person.

This reminds me of the first time I saw Star Wars: Episode 4: A new hope. Sure, I thoroughly enjoyed the actions, the struggles, and the innovations that are very much a part of the film, but something that I heard from a rather ďdullĒ moment of the movie really caught my attention as well. Ironically enough, the most interesting concept in the entire film for me was when Obi-Wan Kenobi said that he hadnít lied to Luke about his parents being murdered at all because his real father died the day he betrayed the Jedi and became a Sith lord. Rather touching if youíre 8 or 9 years old, I think, but the real moment of brilliance came in the very next sentence. He went on to say that in reality he had been completely honest with Luke all the while, ďfrom a certain point of viewĒ. Now bear in mind that from Lukeís end of the spectrum, this was simply a bold faced lie, plain and simple. However, on the other end, Obi-Wanís perception of this concept was entirely different altogether.

More to come.

Edit: WTF! No double spacing for some reason. How do I fix this?

They say always consider the source so please be advised I've never had any professional writing training!

The best practical advice I have received is to review your work and re-write each sentence in as few as words as possible without sacrificing the overall message. This dramatically transform a piece's readability.

For example you wrote:

"Every day I hear the same essential concept being rehashed time and again about the game of tennis and just about anything else in life in general."

That might become:

a) "I hear the same essential concept rehashed daily about the game of tennis and, indeed, life in general."

or

b) "The same essential concept is continually rehashed and applied to both the game of tennis and life in general."

Think of it as a contest of fewest words. The rewording offered in b) also ties in with the second suggestion......

I couldn't put my finger on it intially but there was something about the tone of the piece which made me feel as though I was being treated like an inferior. Forgive me but it reads as being a little supercilious. e.g. "then you may do yourself a favor by reading on a little further."

Bugamwalla.... (sp?) I think nailed it. I think the piece is over-personalised. The initial relating to personal experience is fine but at some point you have to step back, generalise and make it a "piece amongst equals".

So b) above is an example of how the passage might be de-personalised and retain the message with fewer words. It's not a suggestion but an illustration of what I am trying to convey.

Indiana Puffed
02-11-2009, 07:23 AM
Hello, I am curious to know where you would wish to have this article published?

Ta, Puffed

Djokovicfan4life
02-11-2009, 08:52 AM
They say always consider the source so please be advised I've never had any professional writing training!

The best practical advice I have received is to review your work and re-write each sentence in as few as words as possible without sacrificing the overall message. This dramatically transform a piece's readability.

For example you wrote:

"Every day I hear the same essential concept being rehashed time and again about the game of tennis and just about anything else in life in general."

That might become:

a) "I hear the same essential concept rehashed daily about the game of tennis and, indeed, life in general."

or

b) "The same essential concept is continually rehashed and applied to both the game of tennis and life in general."

Think of it as a contest of fewest words. The rewording offered in b) also ties in with the second suggestion......

I couldn't put my finger on it intially but there was something about the tone of the piece which made me feel as though I was being treated like an inferior. Forgive me but it reads as being a little supercilious. e.g. "then you may do yourself a favor by reading on a little further."

Bugamwalla.... (sp?) I think nailed it. I think the piece is over-personalised. The initial relating to personal experience is fine but at some point you have to step back, generalise and make it a "piece amongst equals".

So b) above is an example of how the passage might be de-personalised and retain the message with fewer words. It's not a suggestion but an illustration of what I am trying to convey.

Haha, yeah, I'm fixing that right now. Little busy at the moment though. First paragraph is edited a little bit, still not perfect, of course.

Djokovicfan4life
02-11-2009, 08:53 AM
Hello, I am curious to know where you would wish to have this article published?

Ta, Puffed

TW forums. :)

Or are you serious?

Puma
02-11-2009, 09:43 AM
I agree with much said here. I would add that a talent over looked is one that allows a person to have a passion to succeed at one specific thing. This allows the person to focus on his passion and weed out distactions that get in the way of the dedication it takes to learn and posses the skills necessary for higher level performance. Like you for example. You state that you don't feel your overly talented for guitar. But maybe your passion for what you do allows you to maximize your talent over a period of time thus you keep learning more and more. You state you have grown tired of it from time to time. But, pick it up once more and there is still that passion.

Djokovicfan4life
02-11-2009, 10:13 AM
I agree with much said here. I would add that a talent over looked is one that allows a person to have a passion to succeed at one specific thing. This allows the person to focus on his passion and weed out distactions that get in the way of the dedication it takes to learn and posses the skills necessary for higher level performance. Like you for example. You state that you don't feel your overly talented for guitar. But maybe your passion for what you do allows you to maximize your talent over a period of time thus you keep learning more and more. You state you have grown tired of it from time to time. But, pick it up once more and there is still that passion.

You are = "you're". Couldn't let that one go.

Personally, I feel that analysis skills are one of the keys to maximizing one's potential. Any moron can go hit some serves, forehands, backhands, or whatever. But an elite few step on the court with the knowledge of HOW to practice these things.

And yes, being obsessed doesn't hurt, hahahahaha!

This is just the introduction, really. Much more to come when I get the time.

Matt

shubydoobydo
02-13-2009, 05:30 PM
JokerFan... Not a bad article. If only we all knew how to practice before we started. This article may fit in the PTM newsletter!

larry10s
02-14-2009, 05:15 AM
sorry havent read all the replies.(dont flog me). but to me to be successfull you need a combination of things. no question work ethic dedication discipline can overcome basic talent HOWEVER you cant make silk out of a cows ear. we are not created equal in athletic ability body type hand eye coordination etc that is the component you can not teach.having raw talent does not equal success unless the other components are also done. equal effort the best you can be will still produce one person better at the given ability than the other imho

Mansewerz
02-14-2009, 11:00 AM
I think this article pertains to me a lot. I need to work a lot harder to get better than some others, and I'm willing to do it. It's gonna take a while though.

BullDogTennis
02-14-2009, 03:18 PM
a bit off subject, do you wanna give me some stuff to work on the guitar? i've been playin for about a year or so, (without stopping) i've started and stopped several times.

right now im working on "eugenes trick bag" by steve vai from crossroads. but id like some other stuff that would help me!

Mansewerz
02-14-2009, 03:49 PM
a bit off subject, do you wanna give me some stuff to work on the guitar? i've been playin for about a year or so, (without stopping) i've started and stopped several times.

right now im working on "euenes trick bag" by steve vai from crossroads. but id like some other stuff that would help me!

This is a tennis board!!!!:D:D:D:D

BullDogTennis
02-14-2009, 05:03 PM
This is a tennis board!!!!:D:D:D:D

i know i know. but i never turn down an opportunity to learn a bit on guitar too!

Djokovicfan4life
02-14-2009, 06:43 PM
a bit off subject, do you wanna give me some stuff to work on the guitar? i've been playin for about a year or so, (without stopping) i've started and stopped several times.

right now im working on "eugenes trick bag" by steve vai from crossroads. but id like some other stuff that would help me!
Do plan on some guitar instruction, yes. Video to come of my playing very soon. That way you can judge whether I'm full of it for yourself before deciding to take my advice or not.

Matt

BullDogTennis
02-14-2009, 09:16 PM
Do plan on some guitar instruction, yes. Video to come of my playing very soon. That way you can judge whether I'm full of it for yourself before deciding to take my advice or not.

Matt

ha, i dont care. i take lessons every week and everything, but when i get a chance i always ask other people things, bc just like tennis there is always something you can learn.

Djokovicfan4life
02-14-2009, 09:20 PM
Well, half the battle is already won with that attitude. The players that don't get anywhere are the ones that are too proud to accept the fact that there is ALWAYS someone better than them to learn from.