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View Full Version : how good is this girl ?


150mph_
02-09-2009, 09:28 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItpBL1iP5tI

http://fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/mtt/tremaine_sarah00.html

Petekbladetour1
02-09-2009, 09:41 AM
shes not to bad

SaunderS
02-09-2009, 09:41 AM
very..........

150mph_
02-09-2009, 09:44 AM
her strokes > jollyroger imho

Petekbladetour1
02-09-2009, 09:47 AM
Saunders did you just say she was bad?

mozzer
02-09-2009, 09:53 AM
What a tank. Awesome volleys and technique all around. Serve is close to 100mph dont you think pete? :)

Lotto
02-09-2009, 10:19 AM
That is some pretty hard hitting!!

LeeD
02-09-2009, 10:20 AM
Strokes good enough for any college level singles...
Don't really know because it's match play that counts.
I would guess, easy 5.0 womens, maybe better.
For all you guys who are lazy, and that's most of yous!! Notice she is not lazy, notice her feet are stable and wide apart, notice she is trying! That is how to hit for a vid.
Notice her swing speed, much faster than most vids.

Frankauc
02-09-2009, 10:20 AM
looks good but i dont think she's got good consistency since she looks like she's trying to punish every ball.

mozzer
02-09-2009, 10:22 AM
Yeah, alot seem to go down into the net (and you can hear some) or she leans back and they go long. But from the points you see, she manages to finish them before an error. Yes of course the video is probably heavliy edited.

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 10:23 AM
Based on her results she has great technique, but struggles with a weak mental game. Still, amazing technique though. She could 6/0, 6/0 me any time. :)

Matt

LeeD
02-09-2009, 10:27 AM
No she can't and you know it.
I assume you're an easy 4.5 or above mens player.
She can bagel you if you're limited to NO first serves, easy second serves, no drop shots, no low sharp angles, and play limited to baseline only.
Those were the conditions basically when I practiced with equally adept women players. CeciMartinez, Mareen,Marisa,MarcieLouies, SusanBrown, DanaGilbert, ArleneCohen.... all A or pro level womens.

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 10:41 AM
No she can't and you know it.
I assume you're an easy 4.5 or above mens player.
She can bagel you if you're limited to NO first serves, easy second serves, no drop shots, no low sharp angles, and play limited to baseline only.
Those were the conditions basically when I practiced with equally adept women players. CeciMartinez, Mareen,Marisa,MarcieLouies, SusanBrown, DanaGilbert, ArleneCohen.... all A or pro level womens.

Appreciate the respect, but my game is a work in progress. I still need: a real topspin second serve, better volleys and knowledge of where to place them for various situations, a backhand drive (slice is coming along though), more explosive footwork, a smoother transition into net and better positioning once I get there, a better lob, drop shot, slice serve, and so on. Oh, and matchplay.

What I DO have is the knowledge to improve these things in an effective and efficient manner, through http://virtualtennisacademy.com

So yes, she could 6/0, 6/0 me. That doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy it though. :)

Matt

SaunderS
02-09-2009, 10:50 AM
Saunders did you just say she was bad?

i didnt .....

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 10:51 AM
i didnt .....

Question: How good is this girl?

Answer: Very.

Funny stuff.

Slicendicer
02-09-2009, 11:04 AM
What a tank. Awesome volleys and technique all around. Serve is close to 100mph dont you think pete? :)


LOL :shock:

Slicendicer
02-09-2009, 11:09 AM
She is very good... caveat... she is hitting drills she has probably hit thousand times before... a lot of the balls looked to be gone out... the balls are all dead feeds... the video was edited to show the "best" stuff... the video, the sound of an indoor court "heightens" the speed of the ball...

I've never lost a warm-up or a FH drill.

oneguy21
02-09-2009, 11:12 AM
She hits that ball pretty hard and strokes look pretty loose.

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 11:24 AM
Noticed that she tends to take too many little steps on balls hit right to her, more or less. She'd use less energy without them.

Matt

Petekbladetour1
02-09-2009, 12:17 PM
What a tank. Awesome volleys and technique all around. Serve is close to 100mph dont you think pete? :)

anyway my serve is at leas tas fast as that one so according to you guys her serve is 80mph

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 12:23 PM
Another small issue:

Weight is already falling towards the ground on some overheads, killing some potential power and margin for error.

Bretto
02-09-2009, 12:24 PM
She's a hard hitter but has a very slight frame...

MarrratSafin
02-09-2009, 12:27 PM
She's very, very good.:)

Rickson
02-09-2009, 12:29 PM
She goes to Fordham? All that youtubing and she wound up in the Bronx?

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 12:31 PM
She goes to Fordham? All that youtubing and she wound up in the Bronx?

Again, RESULTS determine which college ultimately accepts a player, not youtube. :)

150mph_
02-09-2009, 12:34 PM
Based on her results she has great technique, but struggles with a weak mental game. Still, amazing technique though. She could 6/0, 6/0 me any time. :)

Matt

exactly what i was thinking... her results and her technique doesnt match at all :confused:

150mph_
02-09-2009, 12:39 PM
She goes to Fordham? All that youtubing and she wound up in the Bronx?

well im sure its still a respectable jesuit university...
maybe not as prestigious as Georgetown or BC but... still

crash1929
02-09-2009, 12:41 PM
looks like she has a great forehand.

SmAsH999
02-09-2009, 12:53 PM
wow, that's some impressive stuff...based on what I saw. And for those of you who said that her consistency is off, you're probably right.

Thirteen
02-09-2009, 01:27 PM
HOLY CRAP RACKET HEAD SPEED. (as in good)

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 01:49 PM
HOLY CRAP RACKET HEAD SPEED. (as in good)

There was a racquet in that video? Didn't notice.

Slicendicer
02-09-2009, 01:50 PM
There was a racquet in that video? Didn't notice.


I saw it clearly... it was a blur.

coonio
02-09-2009, 11:41 PM
She's good. And cute.
I think maybe I enjoyed that video a little too much.

maverick66
02-09-2009, 11:50 PM
it looks like it was put in fast forward. everything is moving ultra quick. i hate collge videos as you dont get to know the player. you see a highlight reel. show some matches and ill tell you how good she is. nice cute strokes dont make the player. ive met guys with prettier strokes than top ten players that could barely win at futures level. they would look unreal on a training vid but once the match started they went downhill fast.

Ambivalent
02-09-2009, 11:56 PM
This video got posted a year ago or so. Her strokes are a lot like joost vogels.

Orangejumper
02-10-2009, 02:26 AM
whoa
das is QUICK raquet speed. ok drills look good but the return of serve aint too shabby either

halalula1234
02-10-2009, 03:07 AM
she is PRETTTY

Tomek_tennis
02-10-2009, 04:17 AM
Very nice technique, proper footwork etc. Some little faults, but there are pro's who do them as well (like leaning on the BH or no variety). If she could tranfer that to match play and is 16, she could be on tour in 2 years.

150mph_
02-10-2009, 06:27 AM
This video got posted a year ago or so. Her strokes are a lot like joost vogels.

yeah ... i can read and im sure most of the forum goers here can read that the video was posted a year and a half ago...
and oh in case you didnt know...
joost vogel isnt a girl

Rickson
02-10-2009, 06:48 AM
J011y can take her. He has a bigger serve and bigger groundstrokes, but she has a slight advantage over him at the net.

150mph_
02-10-2009, 08:18 AM
J011y can take her. He has a bigger serve and bigger groundstrokes, but she has a slight advantage over him at the net.

facepalm ...
you are comparing a grown man vs. a teenage girl...
thats as fair as putting manny pacquiao in the same ring as vladmir klichko

Djokovicfan4life
02-10-2009, 08:25 AM
facepalm ...
you are comparing a grown man vs. a teenage girl...
thats as fair as putting manny pacquiao in the same ring as vladmir klichko

There are plenty of teenage girls that could kill a strong male 5.0 player. Sharapova DID win Wimbledon at a fairly young age, you know.

NickC
02-10-2009, 08:28 AM
She goes to Fordham? All that youtubing and she wound up in the Bronx?

What's wrong with the Bronx? I live right near the Bronx (not now, obviously, but when I'm at my parent's house), it isn't half bad. Of course, you might hate it simply because you're from Queens.

There are plenty of teenage girls that could kill a strong male 5.0 player. Sharapova DID win Wimbledon at a fairly young age, you know.

17, to be exact.

150mph_
02-10-2009, 08:30 AM
There are plenty of teenage girls that could kill a strong male 5.0 player. Sharapova DID win Wimbledon at a fairly young age, you know.


im saying its an unfair comparison...
women have women's ranking and level to compare...
comparing a woman to a man is like apple and oranges

LeeD
02-10-2009, 08:31 AM
Strong 5.0 male player.
Some hit soft, push and retrieve, so top girls smoke them.
Some hit really unothodox hard, volley and overhead really well, and can beat, out of top 50 girls easily.
So there are many levels of 5.0 male players.
When I was allowed to practice with the girls, one stipulation was NO first serves, no wide second serves, NO low angles, NO drops, and NO excessive use of hard penetrating slices. If I did any of the above consistently, they just wouldn't hit/practice with me any more :shock::shock::shock:
But like a beaten married guy, I enjoyed their company, so abided by their rules.:(

150mph_
02-10-2009, 08:32 AM
Strong 5.0 male player.
Some hit soft, push and retrieve, so top girls smoke them.
Some hit really unothodox hard, volley and overhead really well, and can beat, out of top 50 girls easily.
So there are many levels of 5.0 male players.
When I was allowed to practice with the girls, one stipulation was NO first serves, no wide second serves, NO low angles, NO drops, and NO excessive use of hard penetrating slices. If I did any of the above consistently, they just wouldn't hit/practice with me any more :shock::shock::shock:
But like a beaten married guy, I enjoyed their company, so abided by their rules.:(

ii always wondered why women cant move as well as men...

LuckyR
02-10-2009, 08:35 AM
How good is she? What's her record in matchplay? That's how you tell (not videos).

LeeD
02-10-2009, 08:39 AM
Serena moves better than most of us.
Goolagong moved better than most of us.
Henin, with practiced movement, moved faster and better than us.
Clisters.
Graf.
Just don't expect tall giraffes to move as well as shorter players.

150mph_
02-10-2009, 08:42 AM
[QUOTE=LeeD;3117881]Serena moves better than most of us.
\QUOTE]


^facepalm
even ESPN commentators pointed out that her movement was terrible - no little adjustment steps, just big lunges toward the ball...

anyways, im saying comparitively speaking... why they dont move as well as men... not professional compared with amatuers... but same level same age same specs...

LeeD
02-10-2009, 08:44 AM
Wide hips, knock kneed, small feet, boobs bouncing around, might sweat.

mozzer
02-10-2009, 09:34 AM
She's good. And cute.
I think maybe I enjoyed that video a little too much.
haha :D:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

150mph_
02-10-2009, 09:35 AM
Wide hips, knock kneed, small feet, boobs bouncing around, might sweat.

monfils with size 16s shoes? (correction?) has nothing on nadal with 10.5s
;)

LeeD
02-10-2009, 09:36 AM
Oh, but the difference between women's 7.5 and men's 11 is like 3".
BobLaniers size 20's never gave him much horizontal movement quickness. So point of diminishing returns?

150mph_
02-10-2009, 09:39 AM
Oh, but the difference between women's 7.5 and men's 11 is like 3".
BobLaniers size 20's never gave him much horizontal movement quickness. So point of diminishing returns?

you are right...
not many women wear 7.5s these days...
maybe 9.5-10.5s easy

LeeD
02-10-2009, 09:40 AM
10.5 womens, maybe 5'11" tall, is barely mens size 9.

150mph_
02-10-2009, 09:41 AM
you are right again... :(

d-quik
02-10-2009, 09:55 AM
"looks" good to me :D

Tennis Dunce
02-10-2009, 10:17 AM
She has tremendous follow-through on her backhand. She could use some finesse in her game to mix things up...allow her to throw some change-ups now and then.

J011yroger
02-11-2009, 06:42 PM
but she has a slight advantage over him at the net.

Guess again. ;)

J

ronalditop
02-11-2009, 07:04 PM
Serena moves better than most of us.
.

maybe she moves better than some girls in here, but im sure the mayority of mens here move better than her.

Noveson
02-11-2009, 07:09 PM
maybe she moves better than some girls in here, but im sure the mayority of mens here move better than her.

Maybe in a straight run. Her footwork(which is what we were discussing) is a whole different matter.

LeeD
02-12-2009, 08:01 AM
If any of you doubters were 5'9" tall and 190 lbs., you'd WISH you could move even 3/4's of Serena's movements.
Try changing directions at her height and weight!
And she doesn't need to practice movement, she owns the WTA right now. Ballet dancing might be good for the skinny and weak, but a hard hitter, and she hits the HARDEST, with some movement can win at the top levels.
Did you just ignore Goolagong? What, you have selective reading too?:twisted:

Rickson
02-12-2009, 08:32 AM
Dude, Serena is not 190. She might be 165, but not 190.

LeeD
02-12-2009, 08:37 AM
Her 4 year old press release says she weights 125. You believe it?
Venus weighs 160. She's 6'2" tall.
Serena is bigger than almost any MENS player under 6'2" tall.
LOOK AT HER legs and body! I'm 155 now, and she's easily 40 lbs heavier.
Sharapova is right at 150.
JJ right at 135.
AI just under...skinnier legs.
C'mon man, no one would believe you after seeing Serena.
I'd say, Serena and Tsjonga are close in weight.

Rickson
02-12-2009, 08:38 AM
Serena is big, but she's not 190 big. I'd say 170 tops.

LeeD
02-12-2009, 08:43 AM
Keep adding.....
I used to date a climber/rugby player girl. She was 5'8" and 190. Much smaller, much thinner, much smaller bones than Serena. And much less sheer muscle, with some more fat:):)
Used to, as in last year.
Look at Richard's size and Mom's size. That's a hint there are no 170 lbs'er in that family except Venus.

Rickson
02-12-2009, 08:48 AM
Oracene might definitely be over 170. Hell, she might be over 200, but Serena is a muscular athlete while Oracene is plain and simply, a fat woman. BTW, I didn't know you were into large women. More cushion for the pushin, Lee!

LeeD
02-12-2009, 08:50 AM
I like athletic women.
Rachel could climb 40' rope ladders in like 10 seconds, about 4 times faster than me. She'd practice rugby with the guys. She could standing long jump right around 7'. She was 28 then.

Rickson
02-12-2009, 08:52 AM
Just busting your chops, Lee.

julian
02-12-2009, 09:51 AM
How good is she? What's her record in matchplay? That's how you tell (not videos).
click
http://fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/recaps/020909aab.html

10nistennis
02-12-2009, 05:28 PM
Serena's footwork is one of her weaknesses. She gets by and wins matches due to her sheer athleticism.



As for the girl in the video, she's got nice racquet speed, and volleys are solid.

Fedace
02-12-2009, 05:34 PM
She is a clumsy mover , but a very hot mover..

maverick66
02-12-2009, 08:05 PM
http://www.collegetennisonline.com/FordhamUniversity-W-Tennis/Player.aspx?plId=80779

not very good if you look at her record. like i said before college videos are worthless. it only shows the good side of a player not the complete player.

J011yroger
02-12-2009, 08:09 PM
http://www.collegetennisonline.com/FordhamUniversity-W-Tennis/Player.aspx?plId=80779

not very good if you look at her record. like i said before college videos are worthless. it only shows the good side of a player not the complete player.

Record is irrelivant, she is not playing up to her full capabilities, because she is a Canadian spy gathering info to help their upcoming invasion, and does not want to draw any undue attention to herself.

J

SystemicAnomaly
02-13-2009, 04:23 AM
http://www.collegetennisonline.com/FordhamUniversity-W-Tennis/Player.aspx?plId=80779

not very good if you look at her record. like i said before college videos are worthless. it only shows the good side of a player not the complete player.

Looks like she is a Freshman playing #3 on a Div I team (perhaps not as strong Div I team tho'). She can't be all that bad considering.

chico9166
02-13-2009, 04:25 AM
Enough already. Take it somewhere else.

You're not only informative in your posts SA, but you're all class. But then again, any discerning reader has come to expect that out of you.

150mph_
02-13-2009, 05:05 PM
what kind of FH and BH grips does she uses?
FH from what i analyzed is western

Topaz
02-13-2009, 06:28 PM
J011y can take her. He has a bigger serve and bigger groundstrokes, but she has a slight advantage over him at the net.

facepalm ...
you are comparing a grown man vs. a teenage girl...
thats as fair as putting manny pacquiao in the same ring as vladmir klichko

No, he is comparing a Jolly with a Div. 1 female tennis player. He is comparing a 3.5/4.0 (based on tournament match results) man with a 5.5* woman. NO COMPARISON. She will win.

*NTRP estimated using General and Experienced Player Guidelines (http://dps.usta.com/usta_master/sitecore_usta/USTA/Document%20Assets/2008/02/14/doc_13_7372.pdf) which suggest a Div. 1 unranked player of under the age of 30 is no LOWER than a 5.5.

im saying its an unfair comparison...
women have women's ranking and level to compare...
comparing a woman to a man is like apple and oranges

And a 5.5 woman is not going to have any trouble with a 4.0/3.5 male.

Strong 5.0 male player.
Some hit soft, push and retrieve, so top girls smoke them.
Some hit really unothodox hard, volley and overhead really well, and can beat, out of top 50 girls easily.
So there are many levels of 5.0 male players.
When I was allowed to practice with the girls, one stipulation was NO first serves, no wide second serves, NO low angles, NO drops, and NO excessive use of hard penetrating slices. If I did any of the above consistently, they just wouldn't hit/practice with me any more :shock::shock::shock:
But like a beaten married guy, I enjoyed their company, so abided by their rules.:(

Who is the 5.0 male player that we are talking about here? You?

And the machine keeps grinding away...

Rickson
02-13-2009, 08:04 PM
It's really not fair to call J011y a 3.5/4.0 based on his tournament record, especially because he enjoys a good beer before a match. I demand you take that back about J011y because he could show up half, hell make that fully, drunk and still have his way with Sarah Tremaine. And he'd beat her in a match too!

150mph_
02-13-2009, 08:26 PM
It's really not fair to call J011y a 3.5/4.0 based on his tournament record, especially because he enjoys a good beer before a match. I demand you take that back about J011y because he could show up half, hell make that fully, drunk and still have his way with Sarah Tremaine. And he'd beat her in a match too!

sarah tremaine is mine! :oops:

sucks the guy shes playing in the video is like 2.5

drakulie
02-14-2009, 04:41 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItpBL1iP5tI

http://fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/mtt/tremaine_sarah00.html

Good enough to beat 90+ % of the posters on this board. Anyone who is not a strong 4.5+ player will lose to her. (badly).

J011yroger
02-14-2009, 05:10 AM
It's really not fair to call J011y a 3.5/4.0 based on his tournament record, especially because he enjoys a good beer before a match. I demand you take that back about J011y because he could show up half, hell make that fully, drunk and still have his way with Sarah Tremaine. And he'd beat her in a match too!

Dude, don't worry about it. Anyone who wants to know how I play is more than welcome to ask one of the 30 or so board members whom I have hit with. Or I will give a personal demonstration if they are in the NY area.

I have never said I would beat someone over the internet (at least not that I can ever remember) you shouldn't either.

Topaz once asked me what level of girl I competed against, and I gave a long thought out reply. And that is about it.

The rest of this stuff is pointless. Well, since Fordham is about 45 mins away maybe a road trip is in order!

Seriously though, I should make more of an effort to meet the coaches of local DI schools. I was pretty friendly with the Rutgers coach, and that was really cool.

Will put that on my "To Do" list for the spring.

J

drakulie
02-14-2009, 06:38 AM
No, he is comparing a Jolly with a Div. 1 female tennis player. He is comparing a 3.5/4.0 (based on tournament match results) man with a 5.5* woman. NO COMPARISON. She will win.



I'm not aware of Jolly's tournament record, but if he is a 3.5/4.0, he will lose 6-0, 6-0 to this girl. I play lots of girls, who are in the 5.0-5.5 range, including nationally ranked players, and ex D-1 girls. I struggle to beat them (when I do), and I'm currently playing/competing in a league with 4.5/5.0 men.

Jolly, what is your NTRP, and based on that >>>> do you think you could beat this girl???

tennisguyak
02-14-2009, 06:51 AM
May have been mentioned... But how would she play against someone who wasn't giving her all the pace to work with. Say a pusher and the balls would be landing at the service line and just floating up above her shoulders...

J011yroger
02-14-2009, 06:57 AM
May have been mentioned... But how would she play against someone who wasn't giving her all the pace to work with. Say a pusher and the balls would be landing at the service line and just floating up above her shoulders...

Ummmmm, she plays DI college tennis, so I don't think that is an issue yet :)

If she graduates and joins a USTA league, it might become an issue.

But in my playing adventures I have yet to run into a junior tournament playing, or college playing girl that employs that strategy.

Not saying it doesn't exist, just saying I haven't seen it.

What you are asking is like watching a video of a guy running 100M dashes, for his track team, and asking how well he would swim.

J

Julieta
02-14-2009, 10:56 AM
Ummmmm, she plays DI college tennis, so I don't think that is an issue yet :)

If she graduates and joins a USTA league, it might become an issue.

But in my playing adventures I have yet to run into a junior tournament playing, or college playing girl that employs that strategy.

Not saying it doesn't exist, just saying I haven't seen it.

What you are asking is like watching a video of a guy running 100M dashes, for his track team, and asking how well he would swim.

J

It exists. Just go over to the juniors thread! It's a frequent topic over there.

It exists in college tennis too. There's a ranked girl at a big school, I won't say at what school, who is, I think, a very nice player, she has some WTA points and a high ITF junior ranking, but EVERYONE calls her a pusher. Lots of high balls that bounce just past the service line. I personally would call her consistent, because pusher sounds like she can't play, and she can play. But my point is that not everyone under 25 hits the fuzz off the ball.

Also at this level of D1, meaning a school with no-star and 1-star recruits on the roster (and I don't mean that in a disrespectful manner, that is just the way it is, probably academics more important here), I think the playing style is either very consistent girls who can keep a long rally going (who could be labeled as pushers by some people) or girls that hit the fuzz off the ball, but can't keep it in the court on a consistent basis. Then the next levels up, the next tier of schools, the consistent girls keep the rally going longer and also hit the ball stronger, with more spin, and do everything else a bit better, and the aggressive style girls keep it in the court more and also do everything else a bit better. You also see more variety. At the top levels of college tennis, you're basically seeing WTA below 200.

LeeD
02-14-2009, 11:03 AM
She's young, she's good, she will get better if she keeps hitting and playing.
Guy or girl, it's good to see.

NoBadMojo
02-14-2009, 11:16 AM
It exists. Just go over to the juniors thread! It's a frequent topic over there.

It exists in college tennis too. There's a ranked girl at a big school, I won't say at what school, who is, I think, a very nice player, she has some WTA points and a high ITF junior ranking, but EVERYONE calls her a pusher. Lots of high balls that bounce just past the service line. I personally would call her consistent, because pusher sounds like she can't play, and she can play. But my point is that not everyone under 25 hits the fuzz off the ball.

Also at this level of D1, meaning a school with no-star and 1-star recruits on the roster (and I don't mean that in a disrespectful manner, that is just the way it is, probably academics more important here), I think the playing style is either very consistent girls who can keep a long rally going (who could be labeled as pushers by some people) or girls that hit the fuzz off the ball, but can't keep it in the court on a consistent basis. Then the next levels up, the next tier of schools, the consistent girls keep the rally going longer and also hit the ball stronger, with more spin, and do everything else a bit better, and the aggressive style girls keep it in the court more and also do everything else a bit better. You also see more variety. At the top levels of college tennis, you're basically seeing WTA below 200.

For sure. Just because someone plays for a Div1 school doesnt mean that Div1 school has a great tennis program fully loaded w. 5.0's and up. Conversely, there are some really small colleges that have very strong tennis programs, especially given the size of the school. There is a female who posts here who claims to play on a Div1 team....she is in the 3.0-3.5 range.

Also, maybe you are referring to the modern pusher? by that i mean a player who hits w. a good amount of batspeed and a good amount of spin, but not a lot of forward momentum. This is common in the juniors. That type of player can give some very good players fits depending. Pushers in the traditional sense dont really exist past the 4.0-4.5 level or so these days...their short/weak balls get summarily dispatched by a good player.

As to Jolly, his tourney results <which someone published> do not match the bravado. His videos dont match the bravado. He is in the 3.5-4.0 range based upon both results and visual evidence. Nothing wrong w. that.

Off topic, but I was interested in a thread in the Pro Section about PED's in tennis which was very appropriate given the baseball scandal. It was civil <for this forum> other than a couple of the usual trolls and idiots. You mentioned something about the thread likely going to be zapped...It appears it was..do they zap all threads about PED's. Drugs are a part of pro tennis...why should talking about them be off limits?

LeeD
02-14-2009, 11:25 AM
Are you serious "pushers' don't get above 4.5 or 5.5?
What did you call BradGilbert, MiraslavMecir, JJankovic, and a host of other top pros who generally just are content getting the ball back ONE more time than their opponents?
Those are 7.0 PUSHERS.
I played a 6.0 pusher in 1978-9's, when it was called A -OPEN. TomBrown.
And that girl would whoop bootie on any short high ball. She practices against those balls in the VID!

Julieta
02-14-2009, 11:32 AM
Off topic, but I was interested in a thread in the Pro Section about PED's in tennis which was very appropriate given the baseball scandal. It was civil <for this forum> other than a couple of the usual trolls and idiots. You mentioned something about the thread likely going to be zapped...It appears it was..do they zap all threads about PED's. Drugs are a part of pro tennis...why should talking about them be off limits?

I know the player to whom you are referring. Actually the reason why I mention the various levels is to promote college tennis if anything because a lot of people think you have to be practically tour level to play and that is simply not true. Then they miss out. Agree completely about the smaller colleges as well. Another point is the large rosters that some schools have.

Jolly is interesting because I think he could play at a "lower" level and help his game in the long run, but he seems to look at these kinds of players as beneath him or something, even as they are apparently beating him. It's pretty hard to leap frog in tennis...just go to the open level through training alone. I also think when the guys who hit with him who post here - whom I respect a lot - talk about him the key word is hit versus match play. Geoff or Dr. Clark, not sure which one, mentioned that they did not hit serves or overheads. Which meant they started with a fed ball - way easier to play points that way than with serve/return. I can look a lot better than I am if I pounce on a nice perfect feed than have to return someone's kick serve placed to my weaker side to force a return they can pounce on...

Yes, I guess I did mean modern pusher. Is that what they are called? I just usually say super consistent, but yes, that is the technique. Strong shots but not taken early etc. The funny thing is that people confuse consistent with pushing. They forget that the 5.0 description describes power and/or consistency as a major weapon, which is of course different that actual pushing.

I did notice the PED thread was zapped. It was zapped after I posted on it, so i think it was something I said, or perhaps the fact that I commented on its potential demise. I think discussing it is a big no no. I usually stay away from those threads but that one, yes, was very civil and actually interesting.

Julieta
02-14-2009, 11:35 AM
Are you serious "pushers' don't get above 4.5 or 5.5?
What did you call BradGilbert, MiraslavMecir, JJankovic, and a host of other top pros who generally just are content getting the ball back ONE more time than their opponents?
Those are 7.0 PUSHERS.
I played a 6.0 pusher in 1978-9's, when it was called A -OPEN. TomBrown.
And that girl would whoop bootie on any short high ball. She practices against those balls in the VID!

It's a video. Who is going to put up missing short balls for all the world to see?! If she nailed every shot like that all of the time, she would have had an ITF junior ranking. That said, she seems like a nice player and I'm glad she found a school in the US. Hopefully she will enjoy her college experience and keep on improving.

LeeD
02-14-2009, 11:39 AM
Jolly...
Some players get bored playing with weaker players who are trained consistent. So they stretch to the next level, and SOME of them actually make the jump.
Me. Finals and won 2 C tournaments my 3rd year. Pushed up to B's, I ONLY entered A, Open, or pro qualifiers.
That first year up there, had no problem smoking any ranked B player, but only in practice matches. Never played them in tournaments.
Second year in A-Open, Qualifiers, I'd usually beat B players easily 2 and 1, but still ranked as a B.
Can't get out of B until I WIN a B tournament. Never entered one.

NoBadMojo
02-14-2009, 11:44 AM
Are you serious "pushers' don't get above 4.5 or 5.5?
What did you call BradGilbert, MiraslavMecir, JJankovic, and a host of other top pros who generally just are content getting the ball back ONE more time than their opponents?
Those are 7.0 PUSHERS.
I played a 6.0 pusher in 1978-9's, when it was called A -OPEN. TomBrown.
And that girl would whoop bootie on any short high ball. She practices against those balls in the VID!

Lee....this isnt 1978 anymore..that was more than 30 years ago!.. game has changed since then...a lot! Advanced players now putaway short/weak balls..the kind hit by the traditional pusher. BradGilbert is long retired as is Mecir.

LeeD
02-14-2009, 11:48 AM
Sorry, you LOSE !
Just because you hit topspin does NOT mean you are not a pusher.
A topspin pusher is still a pusher. Wilander was an example, as was Borg really.
An aggressive player makes it happen. He tries to WIN the point, not make the other guy just miss.
A pusher can hit any style, but he tries to win by attrition, by getting ONE more ball back, by counter punching, by using his legs.
New style hitting, old style slices, makes no difference. HOW you hit the ball doesn't have anything to say about whether you are aggressive or you are a passive pusher.
"MODERN" tennis might be the IN thing now, but don't bet on it lasting very long.

NoBadMojo
02-14-2009, 12:03 PM
I know the player to whom you are referring. Actually the reason why I mention the various levels is to promote college tennis if anything because a lot of people think you have to be practically tour level to play and that is simply not true. Then they miss out. Agree completely about the smaller colleges as well. Another point is the large rosters that some schools have.

Jolly is interesting because I think he could play at a "lower" level and help his game in the long run, but he seems to look at these kinds of players as beneath him or something, even as they are apparently beating him. It's pretty hard to leap frog in tennis...just go to the open level through training alone. I also think when the guys who hit with him who post here - whom I respect a lot - talk about him the key word is hit versus match play. Geoff or Dr. Clark, not sure which one, mentioned that they did not hit serves or overheads. Which meant they started with a fed ball - way easier to play points that way than with serve/return. I can look a lot better than I am if I pounce on a nice perfect feed than have to return someone's kick serve placed to my weaker side to force a return they can pounce on...

Yes, I guess I did mean modern pusher. Is that what they are called? I just usually say super consistent, but yes, that is the technique. Strong shots but not taken early etc. The funny thing is that people confuse consistent with pushing. They forget that the 5.0 description describes power and/or consistency as a major weapon, which is of course different that actual pushing.

I did notice the PED thread was zapped. It was zapped after I posted on it, so i think it was something I said, or perhaps the fact that I commented on its potential demise. I think discussing it is a big no no. I usually stay away from those threads but that one, yes, was very civil and actually interesting.

What I found interesting about the Pro tennis drug testing is that it was said the players have to make it known which hour of every day they are to make themselves available for random testing? could this be true? if so, that's pretty invasive. I wonder how many of the PED's the testing cant reveal? Dont think blood doping is something they can get busted on unless caught in the act. Anyway, foolish to think that PED's dont exist in tennis especially since the game has turned more into a fitness and recovery grind than an athletic endeavor, and unfortunate the topic cant be discussed on a tennis forum. maybe the ITF has the drug testing policy..i'm going to look there next

As to Jolly, I like the guy but the bravado is absurdly over the top. Then he couples it w. being self effacing. Anyway, it's all pretty harmless. As to Craig Clark, I think he likes to drill a lot....A friend of mine hit with him and said he is a pretty good player (5.0). As a 5.0 pretty good player as well, I like to drill a lot too, but if I am drilling with someone at my level or better, we always incorporate some sort of match play simulation in our sessions....7-11's, Tiebreakers, Playing singles as doubles, etc and if 3 people participating like I think were involved in Jolly's session, playing ATP's is always worthwhile and a lot of fun.

That's what i call it....the modern pusher. taken to extremes, I guess you could say nadal is a modern pusher because he has a way of getting one more ball back, altho he is def a baseline basher rather than a modern pusher :)

Julieta
02-14-2009, 12:32 PM
As to Jolly, I like the guy but the bravado is absurdly over the top. Then he couples it w. being self effacing. Anyway, it's all pretty harmless. As to Craig Clark, I think he likes to drill a lot....A friend of mine hit with him and said he is a pretty good player (5.0). As a 5.0 pretty good player as well, I like to drill a lot too, but if I am drilling with someone at my level or better, we always incorporate some sort of match play simulation in our sessions....7-11's, Tiebreakers, Playing singles as doubles, etc and if 3 people participating like I think were involved in Jolly's session, playing ATP's is always worthwhile and a lot of fun.

:)


If governing bodies chose to use WADA the rules are different. I think that is the case with ITF, so it will be a somewhat different world for tennis players than previously. I have heard the French players have it the worst because the French police are always looking around for stuff but who knows for sure.

I prefer matchplay drills as well, mainly because I'm always up for practicing returns. Unless I feel like the person is much better or not as good as me, then I drill or feed to start the points because I think it goes better that way. I hate mindless practices. I have posted about this before but I used to have a coach who was all about just running you around and while the workout was great, it does nothing for actual playing situations. He taught at Saddlebrook (hasn't for years though) and thought he was working in the Hopman tradition. I'm all for going for every ball - I won't hit with people who don't - but there has to be some kind of sense to what is happening.

I wish Jolly the best and eventually he will figure it out for himself. I think.

BounceHitBounceHit
02-14-2009, 01:48 PM
As to Craig Clark, I think he likes to drill a lot....A friend of mine hit with him and said he is a pretty good player (5.0). As a 5.0 pretty good player as well, I like to drill a lot too, but if I am drilling with someone at my level or better, we always incorporate some sort of match play simulation in our sessions....7-11's, Tiebreakers, Playing singles as doubles, etc :)

Hey Mojo!

Good to see you posting Mon! :)

When I hit with Doug I was in the midst of an eighteen month period during which I played very little. Probably something like 1-2x/week. I wanted to drill just to try and get my "Mojo" back! ;) I also think we did play some points towards the end. I definitely recall serving because he said I looked like Todd Martin. That's probably the single nicest compliment I ever received regarding my tennis game.

Seriously, I approach it the same way. I take a lesson once a week with Ian and we work on very specific things. When I hit with the kids on the team or my pals we usually play sets or at the very least tie-breakers. I agree, the game is very different when you take out the serve and the return, especially for me because I have a pretty good serve (not to be too boastful) and the return is probably my second best shot, at least according to Ian.

When Jo11y, Geoff and I played in NYC we had very limited time (indoor court time there is CRAZY expensive!) Frther Jo11y had been REALLY nasty ill the few days before.

Geoff and I did play points and games on the first day, before Jo11y joined us. We just didn't get 'aroundtuit' on Saturday or Sunday.

Best,

CC

BounceHitBounceHit
02-14-2009, 01:52 PM
That's good you practice return of serve..many do not. I tend to spend more time teaching both the return of serve and the serve than many TP's. They're the two most impt shots in the game. Lots of TP's tend not to spend much time teaching the serve because many do not know how to teach it well, and because it is the most difficult stroke to teach.

To any younger players reading: read and re-read this post. :)

Mojo is exactly right. If you don't have a strong serve and good, reliable return, you will never ascend to higher levels of play.

Best,

CC

BlahDow
02-14-2009, 02:05 PM
good enough for me to be afraid to embarrass myself trying to beat her

raiden031
02-14-2009, 02:29 PM
For sure. Just because someone plays for a Div1 school doesnt mean that Div1 school has a great tennis program fully loaded w. 5.0's and up. Conversely, there are some really small colleges that have very strong tennis programs, especially given the size of the school. There is a female who posts here who claims to play on a Div1 team....she is in the 3.0-3.5 range.


You're absolutely right. I have seen a number of instances of players playing on college teams that don't live up to the USTA Experienced player guidelines. But the girl in the vid does look pretty good.

raiden031
02-14-2009, 02:33 PM
Sorry, you LOSE !
Just because you hit topspin does NOT mean you are not a pusher.
A topspin pusher is still a pusher. Wilander was an example, as was Borg really.
An aggressive player makes it happen. He tries to WIN the point, not make the other guy just miss.
A pusher can hit any style, but he tries to win by attrition, by getting ONE more ball back, by counter punching, by using his legs.
New style hitting, old style slices, makes no difference. HOW you hit the ball doesn't have anything to say about whether you are aggressive or you are a passive pusher.
"MODERN" tennis might be the IN thing now, but don't bet on it lasting very long.

A pusher *pushes* the ball, hence the name *pusher*. They are one dimensional players who are incapable of playing an aggressive game because their skills are under-developed. That is why they don't usually reach higher than 4.0 level. I think its crap to call someone who is developed in all areas of the game a pusher because they are consistent and choose not to play low-percentage tennis.

NoBadMojo
02-14-2009, 02:54 PM
To any younger players reading: read and re-read this post. :)

Mojo is exactly right. If you don't have a strong serve and good, reliable return, you will never ascend to higher levels of play.

Best,

CC

evening....

and in contrast, the return of serve is one of the easiest to teach and to learn, but is obviously more limited by lack of athletic ability than groundstrokes.

ROS is something that can easily be made better just by watching most any pro on TV..pick your favorite players to watch..they all do a couple simple things that most anyone can do but most club players dont. the key is in the knowing what to watch for when watching.

Mansewerz
02-14-2009, 03:03 PM
To any younger players reading: read and re-read this post. :)

Mojo is exactly right. If you don't have a strong serve and good, reliable return, you will never ascend to higher levels of play.

Best,

CC

I really need work on these two. Time to watch Murray vids.

Would you say this return of serve is a second serve return? He's got a long backswing it seems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS_4PKY5PY8&feature=channel_page

obnoxious2
02-14-2009, 07:37 PM
She looks anorexic. But she seems to be exploding at the ball right at impact for great power.

150mph_
02-14-2009, 08:21 PM
She looks anorexic. But she seems to be exploding at the ball right at impact for great power.

she is perfect
and she hits HARD

maverick66
02-14-2009, 08:26 PM
she is perfect
and she hits HARD

are you here or know here some how? this is a very random girl to bring up out of nowhere. i could see if she was like top ten in the country but shes not. so you have either be her or know her somehow.

raiden031
02-15-2009, 03:23 AM
are you here or know here some how? this is a very random girl to bring up out of nowhere. i could see if she was like top ten in the country but shes not. so you have either be her or know her somehow.

She's on youtube and put her name out there with the vid. I think this guy liked what he saw (both in looks and game) and decided to look up her tennis record.

150mph_
02-15-2009, 05:01 AM
She's on youtube and put her name out there with the vid. I think this guy liked what he saw (both in looks and game) and decided to look up her tennis record.

her record is full of fail :(

raiden031
02-15-2009, 08:59 AM
her record is full of fail :(

Oh well, she made it to a D1 team and is probably having fun. I'm jealous of that accomplishment right there. I would kill to have played college tennis.

MegacedU
02-15-2009, 09:37 AM
I've seen this before. She's certainly DI material, but I would not at all say she's an all courter. She's a baseliner. Her volleys leave MUCH to be desired.

goober
02-15-2009, 11:44 AM
Oh well, she made it to a D1 team and is probably having fun. I'm jealous of that accomplishment right there. I would kill to have played college tennis.

Still can be done! Go back to school take minimum number of hours to be eligible for a community college team for just one semester during the season. I know somebody who did this and he was around 40 years old!

crystal_clear
02-15-2009, 02:02 PM
I saw this video a couple of years ago.

raiden031
02-15-2009, 05:25 PM
it was to tempting. i just find it odd that this girl is picked out of the hundreds that play college tennis. if she was ranked high i would get it but shes not so it doesnt add up why shes on here.

I knew who this girl was 6 months ago because several people in the past have posted links to her youtube videos on TW. Maybe 150 remembered it and decided to look her up. I see no reason to think that he knows her given her publicity here in the past.

raiden031
02-15-2009, 05:30 PM
Still can be done! Go back to school take minimum number of hours to be eligible for a community college team for just one semester during the season. I know somebody who did this and he was around 40 years old!

Its too late for me. Although a year ago I was finishing my master's at UMBC (MD) and discovered that they had a club tennis program for students. I considered trying out, although they said something about having practice 3-4 days a week and I was taking classes online anyways while working full-time, so I didn't have the time to commit to that. I imagine joining a varsity tennis team would be even more time-consuming. Plus I'm burnt out from all the years of school (I to this day have nightmares of missing course exams, I kid you not) and decided I'm not going back anytime soon.

SteveI
02-15-2009, 06:05 PM
Oh really, didn't look like disagreement, and it wasn't just you I was taking issue with.

I thought we had been through this, but again, I saw a bunch of posts not only suggesting that Jolly could beat this girl, but also others. I just didn't feel like sitting back and letting the machine grind away this time. If you call telling the truth instigating, then whatever.

I think Drak put it best...you better be at *least* a PROVEN 4.5 before you would have any hope of competing with her or possibly beating her. And the fact that she is a woman will only matter if the guy is the same rating or close to her.

Hi Topaz,

I had a chance to watch both this girls video and some of the Jolly video has posted. The girls game is very solid and consistant. You can see she has had very good instruction and has excellent footwork. Her racket head speed is very fast even compared to some of the better mens players (non-pros) I have seen in person. I have done some work with girl players of this level.. and I can tell you she is hitting the fuzz off the ball.. hard and deep and heavy. Hate to agree with Drak. Men's 4.5 to stay on the court, off the ground. A high 4.0 male with a great serve could stay even if he was serving well. Once the ball was in play and the longer the point.. and lady takes most of the points. Jolly looks like a good player with some skills but not on the level of that young lady.

Have a great day Topaz!
Keep up the good work!

Topaz
02-15-2009, 06:18 PM
Hi Topaz,

I had a chance to watch both this girls video and some of the Jolly video has posted. The girls game is very solid and consistant. You can see she has had very good instruction and has excellent footwork. Her racket head speed is very fast even compared to some of the better mens players (non-pros) I have seen in person. I have done some work with girl players of this level.. and I can tell you she is hitting the fuzz off the ball.. hard and deep and heavy. Hate to agree with Drak. Men's 4.5 to stay on the court, off the ground. A high 4.0 male with a great serve could stay even if he was serving well. Once the ball was in play and the longer the point.. and lady takes most of the points. Jolly looks like a good player with some skills but not on the level of that young lady.

Have a great day Topaz!
Keep up the good work!

Hi Steve...

Thanks for your experienced input! I was quite literally in awe watching her video...wish I could hit like that! Ha!

And yes, I agree with your assessment, too. I think sometimes posters have 'blinders' on when they see it is a female, and they don't watch the footwork, the racquet head speed, and all the other great qualities of her tennis game.

And I'm not saying Jolly can't hit a tennis ball. I just am taking huge exception to Rickson's assertion that Jolly could beat this young lady.

And it is okay to agree with Drak...even I do it sometimes, too! ;)

SteveI
02-15-2009, 06:31 PM
Hi Steve...

Thanks for your experienced input! I was quite literally in awe watching her video...wish I could hit like that! Ha!

And yes, I agree with your assessment, too. I think sometimes posters have 'blinders' on when they see it is a female, and they don't watch the footwork, the racquet head speed, and all the other great qualities of her tennis game.

And I'm not saying Jolly can't hit a tennis ball. I just am taking huge exception to Rickson's assertion that Jolly could beat this young lady.

And it is okay to agree with Drak...even I do it sometimes, too! ;)

Topaz,

The other thing I forgot to mention was that she always hit the ball out in front and was behind the ball so early. I know it was an "application" video.. but I have think... just good training and early prep on groundstrokes. All that comes from hard work.. and practice.. practice.. practice. I am also guessing she has a backround in soccer and dance. BTW.. her net play was not the best part of her game.. but still quite solid and how often do players with this much heat off the ground have to hit a difficult volley?

I know I can rally with her.. beat her.. nope

Have a good one.
Steve

rubberduckies
02-15-2009, 06:49 PM
You have a point there. Not many girls videos. It's just that she seems so young!

Some of us are actually around her age though.

SystemicAnomaly
02-16-2009, 01:21 AM
her record is full of fail :(

Can't really tell much of anything from the record posted previously. The listing appears to be very sporadic/incomplete. That web site shows only 3 matches played by the whole team for the current season. However, it shows a couple more matches for Sarah herself. Seems to be a lot of info missing.

That aside, it appears that she is a Freshman playing #3 on a weak Div I team. If she was playing on a stronger team, she might be #5 or #6 as a Freshman, winning a lot more of her matches. More complete info:

fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/sched/ford-w-tennis-sched.html (http://fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/sched/ford-w-tennis-sched.html)
fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/mtt/tremaine_sarah00.html (http://fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/mtt/tremaine_sarah00.html)
fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/ford-w-tennis-body.html (http://fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/ford-w-tennis-body.html)
.

raiden031
02-16-2009, 02:13 AM
Her racket head speed is very fast even compared to some of the better mens players (non-pros) I have seen in person. I have done some work with girl players of this level.. and I can tell you she is hitting the fuzz off the ball.. hard and deep and heavy. Hate to agree with Drak. Men's 4.5 to stay on the court, off the ground. A high 4.0 male with a great serve could stay even if he was serving well. Once the ball was in play and the longer the point.. and lady takes most of the points. Jolly looks like a good player with some skills but not on the level of that young lady.

Have a great day Topaz!
Keep up the good work!

I'd say she would beat the best adult women in my area (~4.5) 0 and 0. So absolute minimum of 5.0, but probably even higher because she looks kinda like a men's 5.0.

SteveI
02-16-2009, 02:56 AM
Topaz,

The other thing I forgot to mention was that she always hit the ball out in front and was behind the ball so early. I know it was an "application" video.. but I have think... just good training and early prep on groundstrokes. All that comes from hard work.. and practice.. practice.. practice. I am also guessing she has a backround in soccer and dance. BTW.. her net play was not the best part of her game.. but still quite solid and how often do players with this much heat off the ground have to hit a difficult volley?

I know I can rally with her.. beat her.. nope

Have a good one.
Steve

I was wrong about her backround she only played "volleyball, track & field, basketball, and badminton"... how did she fit tennis in? No softball??? what a lightweight :-) Girl has game! Loves to compete.

Bud
02-16-2009, 03:22 AM
She reminds me a bit of Azarenka.

Bud
02-16-2009, 03:24 AM
She certainly whacks the crap outta the ball... but would like to see more variety in her hitting.

Most of her serves and her baseline rallies are going long. She should take about 10% off the ball.

Julieta
02-16-2009, 03:38 AM
Can't really tell much of anything from the record posted previously. The listing appears to be very sporadic/incomplete. That web site shows only 3 matches played by the whole team for the current season. However, it shows a couple more matches for Sarah herself. Seems to be a lot of info missing.

That aside, it appears that she is a Freshman playing #3 on a weak Div I team. If she was playing on a stronger team, she might be #5 or #6 as a Freshman, winning a lot more of her matches. More complete info:

fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/sched/ford-w-tennis-sched.html (http://fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/sched/ford-w-tennis-sched.html)
fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/mtt/tremaine_sarah00.html (http://fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/mtt/tremaine_sarah00.html)
fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/ford-w-tennis-body.html (http://fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/ford-w-tennis-body.html)
.

I don't think she would play at all on a strong D1 team, mainly because she did not have any kind of ITF ranking in the juniors and no WTA points. Many college coaches would also not take too much stock in this video because in a big chunk of it, she is getting a fed ball to basically the same spot. Coaches receive so many videos just like this one. If she has to hit every forehand square like that getting on the run could cause it to break down fairly quickly. Still, she is a nice player and it quite an acheivement for someone from Halifax NS to get a scholarship to a D1 school. I would think it would be very expensive to travel to junior tournaments from there and you'd have to travel.

Julieta
02-16-2009, 03:42 AM
I'd say she would beat the best adult women in my area (~4.5) 0 and 0. So absolute minimum of 5.0, but probably even higher because she looks kinda like a men's 5.0.

Have to totally disagree with this...she does not in any way look like a men's 5.0. I'm all for giving the girl credit, but this is getting out there!

Julieta
02-16-2009, 03:52 AM
Still can be done! Go back to school take minimum number of hours to be eligible for a community college team for just one semester during the season. I know somebody who did this and he was around 40 years old!

I just read an article about one of the senior women's players playing college at 32. Talk about great preparation to do well in age group tennis - playing college at 32 versus 19. That is actually very smart!

raiden031
02-16-2009, 03:57 AM
Have to totally disagree with this...she does not in any way look like a men's 5.0. I'm all for giving the girl credit, but this is getting out there!

I haven't seen 4.5 men with more impressive strokes. Not to say she would win against a 5.0 man, but I think stroke-wise her game looks more like 5.0 to me.

Julieta
02-16-2009, 03:58 AM
Topaz,

The other thing I forgot to mention was that she always hit the ball out in front and was behind the ball so early. I know it was an "application" video.. but I have think... just good training and early prep on groundstrokes. All that comes from hard work.. and practice.. practice.. practice. I am also guessing she has a backround in soccer and dance. BTW.. her net play was not the best part of her game.. but still quite solid and how often do players with this much heat off the ground have to hit a difficult volley?

I know I can rally with her.. beat her.. nope

Have a good one.
Steve

Not to sound mean but she hardly has to move in this video! In many of the groundstoke sequences the ball is coming to her in the same spot. So it is hard to tell if these practiced groundstokes would hold up in an actual match. You can't tell also is she has any variety in her stance either. I think these kids need to make sure the video has match play in it so you can really see how they move to the ball in a live point.

SystemicAnomaly
02-16-2009, 04:48 AM
I was wrong about her backround she only played "volleyball, track & field, basketball, and badminton"... how did she fit tennis in? No softball??? what a lightweight :-) Girl has game! Loves to compete.

Yeah, what a slacker. MVP in badminton 2 years and then Div 1 tennis!!!


I don't think she would play at all on a strong D1 team, mainly because she did not have any kind of ITF ranking in the juniors and no WTA points...

You're probably right. Wouldn't make the Stanford team most likely. But the point was that if she played on a stronger team than the weak one she is on, she'd probably post better results.

goober
02-16-2009, 04:55 AM
Its too late for me. Although a year ago I was finishing my master's at UMBC (MD) and discovered that they had a club tennis program for students. I considered trying out, although they said something about having practice 3-4 days a week and I was taking classes online anyways while working full-time, so I didn't have the time to commit to that. I imagine joining a varsity tennis team would be even more time-consuming. Plus I'm burnt out from all the years of school (I to this day have nightmares of missing course exams, I kid you not) and decided I'm not going back anytime soon.

I can see that. There's no way I would go back to college full time even for one semester. I pretty much spent up until age 31 in school/training. A college tennis team would be a major commitment. Ultimately for 99% of us tennis is just recreation so I think adult team tennis is a pretty good alternative.

chico9166
02-17-2009, 06:51 AM
I don't think she would play at all on a strong D1 team, mainly because she did not have any kind of ITF ranking in the juniors and no WTA points. Many college coaches would also not take too much stock in this video because in a big chunk of it, she is getting a fed ball to basically the same spot. Coaches receive so many videos just like this one. If she has to hit every forehand square like that getting on the run could cause it to break down fairly quickly. Still, she is a nice player and it quite an acheivement for someone from Halifax NS to get a scholarship to a D1 school. I would think it would be very expensive to travel to junior tournaments from there and you'd have to travel.

I agree with every point in this post. Excellent observation. I would also suspect she did not get alot of quality competition during her junior developement days based on her location and/or financial situation. Often times, kids who are thrust into these highly competitive environments, struggle initially.

Having said that, I think the young lady has a lot of upward potential. She seems to have good feet, and is very athletic through the ball. Hopefully, she will learn to take her considerable physical gifts to matches.. I'd be willing to bet she fugures it out.

Topaz
02-17-2009, 08:10 AM
Having said that, I think the young lady has a lot of upward potential. She seems to have good feet, and is very athletic through the ball. Hopefully, she will learn to take her considerable physical gifts to matches.. I'd be willing to bet she fugures it out.

I wasn't too worried, looking at her record, because I was keeping in mind that she is just a freshman, and could quite possibly be a bit 'green' in Div. 1 tennis. Not sure how it works, but she could be facing some big time competition at that #3 spot. She may not win quite yet, but I bet she's getting some great experience.

dennis10is
02-17-2009, 02:38 PM
Record is irrelivant, she is not playing up to her full capabilities, because she is a Canadian spy gathering info to help their upcoming invasion, and does not want to draw any undue attention to herself.

J

I have my American Eagles recon her 24/7. You can not trust Canadians. We know for a fact that her tennis bags were filled with specially enchanced bird pellets. She's here to purchase Geese steroids from A-Rods' cousin.

dennis10is
02-17-2009, 02:47 PM
Dude, don't worry about it. Anyone who wants to know how I play is more than welcome to ask one of the 30 or so board members whom I have hit with. Or I will give a personal demonstration if they are in the NY area.

I have never said I would beat someone over the internet (at least not that I can ever remember) you shouldn't either.

Topaz once asked me what level of girl I competed against, and I gave a long thought out reply. And that is about it.

The rest of this stuff is pointless. Well, since Fordham is about 45 mins away maybe a road trip is in order!

Seriously though, I should make more of an effort to meet the coaches of local DI schools. I was pretty friendly with the Rutgers coach, and that was really cool.

Will put that on my "To Do" list for the spring.

J

I've hit with you many many times, and we are about equivalent right? You hit harder and I hit prettier. I'm a 2.0 plus and so are you.

Look folks, when people call the Long Island suicide hot line, the volunteers there ask them if they have internet access. If they say yes, they stream vids of Jolly and I hitting. We would be laughing and having a grand time with our 2.0 plus strokes. The volunteers would ask the callers, look "if these losers could enjoy life while beingthis lame", you should not be thinking of killing yourself.

Rickson
02-17-2009, 02:52 PM
I don't like J011y's playing style. It consists of a lot of swearing.

SteveI
02-18-2009, 02:51 AM
I wasn't too worried, looking at her record, because I was keeping in mind that she is just a freshman, and could quite possibly be a bit 'green' in Div. 1 tennis. Not sure how it works, but she could be facing some big time competition at that #3 spot. She may not win quite yet, but I bet she's getting some great experience.

Topaz,

I was thinking the same.. she is a freshman playing #3. Real big stuff for a freshman. Maybe look at her results later in the year to get a better feel for her progress. Nice call!

Steve

Jay_The_Nomad
02-18-2009, 08:05 AM
she generates quite a bit of power despite the fact that most of the balls she's being fed are rather low paced.

JHBKLYN
02-18-2009, 09:41 PM
I haven't seen 4.5 men with more impressive strokes. Not to say she would win against a 5.0 man, but I think stroke-wise her game looks more like 5.0 to me.

If she was a 5.0, she wouldn't be playing at Fordham. Her strokes look great in that college recruitment video but once again, it's match play that determines how good someone is, and she's having trouble winning matches. She let someone at Queens College (a city university college) take a set off her. But she did bagel that girl to win the match. It was probably nerves playing in college for the first time but you can't let someone at Queens College take a set off you! :) She would never beat a 5.0 guy right now and strong 4.5 guys can overpower her. Of course, that is just my opinion.

raiden031
02-19-2009, 02:33 AM
If she was a 5.0, she wouldn't be playing at Fordham. Her strokes look great in that college recruitment video but once again, it's match play that determines how good someone is, and she's having trouble winning matches. She let someone at Queens College (a city university college) take a set off her. But she did bagel that girl to win the match. It was probably nerves playing in college for the first time but you can't let someone at Queens College take a set off you! :) She would never beat a 5.0 guy right now and strong 4.5 guys can overpower her. Of course, that is just my opinion.

Unfortunately there is no clear way to map actual NTRP to the level of play at a particular college, so I can only go by the fact that she is on a D1 team even if it is weak, and the video. I don't think the average 4.5 male's strokes look as good as hers from what I've seen. But I am full aware of the fact that she would probably lose to them, assuming she's not some 5.5+ player or something. But when comparing her to say a 4.5 woman, she is light years ahead.

J011yroger
02-19-2009, 03:03 AM
She let someone at Queens College (a city university college) take a set off her you can't let someone at Queens College take a set off you! :) .

HEY! My friend plays/played on the queens college womans team. She is also a pro at Sportime.

Having said that, you are right. lol.

Are you still working at alley pond? We should have a hit.

J

Sup2Dresq
02-19-2009, 04:54 AM
I've hit with you many many times, and we are about equivalent right? You hit harder and I hit prettier. I'm a 2.0 plus and so are you.

Look folks, when people call the Long Island suicide hot line, the volunteers there ask them if they have internet access. If they say yes, they stream vids of Jolly and I hitting. We would be laughing and having a grand time with our 2.0 plus strokes. The volunteers would ask the callers, look "if these losers could enjoy life while beingthis lame", you should not be thinking of killing yourself.

Funny post. 2.0 plus strokes. Lol.

drakulie
02-19-2009, 05:32 AM
She let someone at Queens College (a city university college) take a set off her.

"She let"????, or more like>>> the girl at queens college took it to her in that set, and simply won the set??

Anyway, what does it really matter?? I'm sure there are plenty of great junior college players who weren't able to get into a University because of grades or other reasons.

The girl in this video is damn good. Period. Her strokes are on par, if not way better than a man at the 4.5 level.

Sup2Dresq
02-19-2009, 05:36 AM
The girl in this video is damn good. Period. Her strokes are on par, if not way better than a man at the 4.5 level.

Or better than a man who thinks he is a 4.5+level but really a 3.0-3.5.

Either or I agree.

LeeD
02-19-2009, 07:41 AM
Her strokes are equal to Men's 4.5, baseline hard hitter.
That would be 5.0 -5.5 womens.
She would have trouble beating most mens 4.5 because she is a girl. Women's lib? NO, she can't run and change directions like a man, she gets tired sooner so has to go for more.
Just drop angle her, slice wide, pull her in and lob her back a few games and you'll know.
She would beat most 4.0 Mens.

Sup2Dresq
02-19-2009, 08:05 AM
She would beat most 4.0 Mens.

Beat 3.0-3.5 men as well.

drakulie
02-19-2009, 08:08 AM
She would have trouble beating most mens 4.5 because she is a girl.

Uhmmm, there is so much wrong this statement considering her strokes are on par or better than 4.5 men players.

drakulie
02-19-2009, 08:08 AM
Beat 3.0-3.5 men as well.

This girl would beat 3.0-3.5 players 6-0, 6-0. Not even worth discussing.

Topaz
02-19-2009, 08:16 AM
Women's lib? NO, she can't run and change directions like a man, she gets tired sooner so has to go for more.
.

I'm really trying to resist here...really. I mean, CMON. *rolling eyes*

Whether or not she (or any other player) can run and change directions and last during a tennis match has to do with their training, preparation, and conditioning WAY MORE than it has to do with gender.

If you want to compare her with a *specific* man, then fine.

But guess what...some men are SLOW. Some men don't change direction well, and even some more men have weak endurance. What makes you think she can't beat a man in those categories?

Oh, that's right...it is because she's a WOMAN. Darn it, I keep forgetting. Women can't possibly be fast, have good footwork, or excellent endurance.

Hunh, guess I didn't do such a good job at that whole 'resisting' thing after all.

crosscourt
02-19-2009, 08:31 AM
This all reminds me of the Woody Allen film where he produces Marshall McLuhan to settle an argument in a cinema about what McLuhan's work means. Is there no-one who lives in/near NY who can go to Fordham and play a set with they young lady to find out just how good she is? Better still, can they post a clip of them playing her?

cc

drakulie
02-19-2009, 08:33 AM
Better still, can they post a clip of them playing her?

cc

but better still, would be a video where it shows them being trashed by her. Although, that video wouldn't make it to the computer as it would be deleted on the long and sad ride home.

dennis10is
02-19-2009, 08:43 AM
I'm really trying to resist here...really. I mean, CMON. *rolling eyes*

Whether or not she (or any other player) can run and change directions and last during a tennis match has to do with their training, preparation, and conditioning WAY MORE than it has to do with gender.

If you want to compare her with a *specific* man, then fine.

But guess what...some men are SLOW. Some men don't change direction well, and even some more men have weak endurance. What makes you think she can't beat a man in those categories?

Oh, that's right...it is because she's a WOMAN. Darn it, I keep forgetting. Women can't possibly be fast, have good footwork, or excellent endurance.

Hunh, guess I didn't do such a good job at that whole 'resisting' thing after all.

Don't you know that the best female Olympian would lose to the fattest man.

I have two bad ankles, two bad kness, one bad back and can't jump over a credit card, laid flat, but if you put me up against the best woman 400 meter hurdlers, they would lose to me. They would smell my manly scent, they would quiver and be afraid to look at me. I would walk past them, wearing my wife-beater stained with mustard, ketchup, and gravy, raise my arms, blow air thru my armpits so that they could glory in my wondrous man smell. They would forget about racing and competing and would want to go home, get pregnant and raise a brood of children. In other words, they would all default and I would win without even racing because I certainly would hurt myself trying to make it ove the first hurdle.

MegacedU
02-19-2009, 08:47 AM
This girl would beat 3.0-3.5 players 6-0, 6-0. Not even worth discussing.

I don't know about this. Many 3.0 - 3.5 players tend to be pushers that never take any chances and will just hit the ball back all day. While I do think she would beat them, I don't think it would be a blow out. She'd get impatient and go for a volley, but imo her midcourt/net game leaves much to be desired.

SteveI
02-19-2009, 08:50 AM
I'm really trying to resist here...really. I mean, CMON. *rolling eyes*

Whether or not she (or any other player) can run and change directions and last during a tennis match has to do with their training, preparation, and conditioning WAY MORE than it has to do with gender.

If you want to compare her with a *specific* man, then fine.

But guess what...some men are SLOW. Some men don't change direction well, and even some more men have weak endurance. What makes you think she can't beat a man in those categories?

Oh, that's right...it is because she's a WOMAN. Darn it, I keep forgetting. Women can't possibly be fast, have good footwork, or excellent endurance.

Hunh, guess I didn't do such a good job at that whole 'resisting' thing after all.

Hi Topaz,

Yea.. she can't run...

"I was wrong about her backround she only played "volleyball, track & field, basketball, and badminton"... how did she fit tennis in? No softball??? what a lightweight Girl has game! Loves to compete." Where I come from we can only do 3 sports a year... how did she fit in 4?...Nope can't run and I bet has no endurance.

Topaz
02-19-2009, 09:58 AM
Don't you know that the best female Olympian would lose to the fattest man.

I have two bad ankles, two bad kness, one bad back and can't jump over a credit card, laid flat, but if you put me up against the best woman 400 meter hurdlers, they would lose to me. They would smell my manly scent, they would quiver and be afraid to look at me. I would walk past them, wearing my wife-beater stained with mustard, ketchup, and gravy, raise my arms, blow air thru my armpits so that they could glory in my wondrous man smell. They would forget about racing and competing and would want to go home, get pregnant and raise a brood of children. In other words, they would all default and I would win without even racing because I certainly would hurt myself trying to make it ove the first hurdle.

Dennis...LOL!!! You always make me laugh! :)

Hi Topaz,

Yea.. she can't run...

"I was wrong about her backround she only played "volleyball, track & field, basketball, and badminton"... how did she fit tennis in? No softball??? what a lightweight Girl has game! Loves to compete." Where I come from we can only do 3 sports a year... how did she fit in 4?...Nope can't run and I bet has no endurance.

Obviously, if she didn't do at least 6 sports...no endurance at all. She should seriously give it all up and take up basket weaving and shopping.

JHBKLYN
02-19-2009, 10:33 AM
Unfortunately there is no clear way to map actual NTRP to the level of play at a particular college, so I can only go by the fact that she is on a D1 team even if it is weak, and the video. I don't think the average 4.5 male's strokes look as good as hers from what I've seen. But I am full aware of the fact that she would probably lose to them, assuming she's not some 5.5+ player or something. But when comparing her to say a 4.5 woman, she is light years ahead.

Don't be fooled by Div I status. A lot of Div I schools don't even have scholarships and if you have a decent game, you're on the team!

As far as being light years ahead of a 4.5, hard to say. Video can be very deceiving. I've seen 3.5/4.0 women that can hit the crap out of the ball, look great on their serves, volleys, overheads but they are only 3.5/4.0. I've also seen 4.5 women who don't hit the crap out of the ball and have weak serves and you wonder how can they be 4.5's but they are.

I was watching a 5.0 USTA women playoff match at the Nation Tennis Center last year and taped a few points from this singles match. I expected hard hitting action but one of the girls kept double faulting and points were over in 4 or 5 shots so I stopped taping and was thinking this is 5.0 tennis??? If I showed those points, people in here would say no way they are 5.0's but one of those teams went to Nationals. The game looks so much easier to play from the sidelines.

Fordham's #1 singles player is a strong player. She made the quarters in last year's USTA National Women's Open played at the National Tennis Center and that tournament has good players. She's probably light years ahead of some 4.5 women.

LeeD
02-19-2009, 11:07 AM
Drakulie... some women I used to practice with regularly.... CeciMartinez, PeanutLouie, SusanBrown, DanaGilbert, ...maybe once every 3 months, MarcieLouie, ArleneCohen, ..... if you know ANY tennis history, that's a list of all A and OPEN level women players, some of whom ranked in the top 20 IN THE WORLD !!
As a rising C player, I hit with all of them. As a ranked B player, but playing A and Open Mens, I decided it was not the best use of my time to hit with ANY of them. So I just hit was the Men's A's and Open for practice.
Yes, I could beat all of them back in my 3rd year of tennis. Not always easy, and only if I'm allowed to first serve, serve wide and volley, and chip and charge.
You see, Topaz, except for Rosie (but she was 5' tall),Serena, Steffi, Justine, and EvonneG, all the women move just like women when they play tennis. A strong Men's player can exploit the movement problems that all women players seem to have.
A DUMB 4.5 Men's player would hit back, stay back, and try to play the women's game against them, and for sure LOSE.
But I was not a DUMB Men's B player.:shock:

dennis10is
02-19-2009, 11:11 AM
Funny post. 2.0 plus strokes. Lol.

That's how Jolly and I roll. We roll Deep and Wide. At least that's where our balls land.

Let me tell you, after a few beers, our balls are heavy.

chico9166
02-19-2009, 11:15 AM
Drakulie... some women I used to practice with regularly.... CeciMartinez, PeanutLouie, SusanBrown, DanaGilbert, ...maybe once every 3 months, MarcieLouie, ArleneCohen, ..... if you know ANY tennis history, that's a list of all A and OPEN level women players, some of whom ranked in the top 20 IN THE WORLD !!
As a rising C player, I hit with all of them. As a ranked B player, but playing A and Open Mens, I decided it was not the best use of my time to hit with ANY of them. So I just hit was the Men's A's and Open for practice.
Yes, I could beat all of them back in my 3rd year of tennis. Not always easy, and only if I'm allowed to first serve, serve wide and volley, and chip and charge.
You see, Topaz, except for Rosie (but she was 5' tall),Serena, Steffi, Justine, and EvonneG, all the women move just like women when they play tennis. A strong Men's player can exploit the movement problems that all women players seem to have.
A DUMB 4.5 Men's player would hit back, stay back, and try to play the women's game against them, and for sure LOSE.
But I was not a DUMB Men's B player.:shock:

Yo, Bobby Riggs is in the house!

Topaz
02-19-2009, 11:19 AM
Drakulie... some women I used to practice with regularly.... CeciMartinez, PeanutLouie, SusanBrown, DanaGilbert, ...maybe once every 3 months, MarcieLouie, ArleneCohen, ..... if you know ANY tennis history, that's a list of all A and OPEN level women players, some of whom ranked in the top 20 IN THE WORLD !!
As a rising C player, I hit with all of them. As a ranked B player, but playing A and Open Mens, I decided it was not the best use of my time to hit with ANY of them. So I just hit was the Men's A's and Open for practice.
Yes, I could beat all of them back in my 3rd year of tennis. Not always easy, and only if I'm allowed to first serve, serve wide and volley, and chip and charge.
You see, Topaz, except for Rosie (but she was 5' tall),Serena, Steffi, Justine, and EvonneG, all the women move just like women when they play tennis. A strong Men's player can exploit the movement problems that all women players seem to have.
A DUMB 4.5 Men's player would hit back, stay back, and try to play the women's game against them, and for sure LOSE.
But I was not a DUMB Men's B player.:shock:

But now you are naming specific players, and when talking about the man, you are at least giving a level.

Before you did not...you simply said that this girl can't run and move as well as a man. You need to clarify which man (or type of player), because many women *can* move better than men...and if you have hit with who you say you have, then you very well know that. That's all I'm saying.

Don't expect me not to call out a blanket statement like you put out earlier...it is disrespectful to the girl in question as well as women in general.

And, to just be clear, I'm *not* saying that there aren't men who can't beat this girl...not at all. I'm very tired of the posters who believe that simply because they are a man that they can beat any female. And, in this case, a certain poster was singled out as being a level that could beat this girl, and this is what I really object to and disagreed with (along with some others).

PS...and please explain...what EXACTLY do you mean...'move like a woman'? Again, it sounds like you think all women move the same, and even a 2.5 club player can tell you that isn't the case.

LeeD
02-19-2009, 11:23 AM
Part of getting good at tennis is to play all kinds of different players, as you know.
Back in the late '70's, serve and volley was the endall in Men's tennis, so most A and Open players tried to employ a version of such....
Most top women's players, not pros, did NOT take that approach, and settled on baseline play with flat, heavy, fast moving balls and little spin.
Couple dings.... MartinaNav was on the horizon. I had a bigger lefty serve. I was 26 by then, and dated most of the listed except for the married one. I thought maybe I could baseline rally with them (not). So either they, their Mom's, or their coach's asked me to hit with them.
Wouldn't you?

Sup2Dresq
02-19-2009, 11:24 AM
That's how Jolly and I roll. We roll Deep and Wide. At least that's where our balls land.

Let me tell you, after a few beers, our balls are heavy.

That post is "deep" and "heavy"

Topaz
02-19-2009, 11:30 AM
Part of getting good at tennis is to play all kinds of different players, as you know.
Back in the late '70's, serve and volley was the endall in Men's tennis, so most A and Open players tried to employ a version of such....
Most top women's players, not pros, did NOT take that approach, and settled on baseline play with flat, heavy, fast moving balls and little spin.
Couple dings.... MartinaNav was on the horizon. I had a bigger lefty serve. I was 26 by then, and dated most of the listed except for the married one. I thought maybe I could baseline rally with them (not). So either they, their Mom's, or their coach's asked me to hit with them.
Wouldn't you?

Wow.

You totally didn't answer my question at all.

You can name drop all you want...not impressed because quite frankly, I don't believe you.

LeeD
02-19-2009, 11:31 AM
Topaz...
Women can be superior long distance runners.
Women can run the 100 in like 10.7 (so could I, 30 years ago).
But get it down to less than 50 yards, women, except for Serena and a few I listed, are waaaay slow off the mark, but worse, they don't stop and change directions well.
They don't jump and explode well. Obviously some physiology involved, but you say... NAAA, some women CAN.
Of course, some women can.... like maybe 5% in the world's athletes only.
And lots of men move like WOMEN. They can't change directions, they have no explosiveness, they can't jump. To those, I just say... "you move like a WOMAN!".
Consider.... top women's basketball players run up to 6'4" right?
How come only THREE can dunk a basketball into the basket?
I could at 5'7" in high school. Two handed.
SpudWebb did at the same height. One handed.
NateArchibald easily did.
Dat guy that won the dunk contest was 5'7".
Now why can't 6'4" women dunk a basketball, girl?
Because they don't like to jump !!

Topaz
02-19-2009, 11:49 AM
^^^Women don't like to jump?!?

My gosh...this is just too much. I'm done.

Though, I do have to say, I'm not sure if you posts make me want to laugh or cry! Or maybe a bit of both!!!

LeeD
02-19-2009, 12:15 PM
Be serious !!
The top women in basketball are all around 6'2" to 6'5". Talking the athletes, not the JaneAppels, who are more like BigCountry.
They CAN'T dunk. Why? They don't jump! It's really that simple.
OK, let's expouse a bit.... most 6'4" basketball players, either sex, can reach flat footed somwhere around 8'6" to almost 9' when standing under the net. Talking those long armed, wide shouldered ATHLETES. They only need to jump maybe 20" higher to dunk. But women don't, men that height hit their heads on the rim.....
There is a difference!
And in tennis players, women seem to want to play like they're women. Not Serena, Venus, or some top athletes, they could beat any mens 5.5's.

drakulie
02-19-2009, 12:18 PM
Drakulie... some women I used to practice with regularly....

LeeD, I really don't care that you use to play with Suzanne Lenglen back in the 20's. Really. You have already lost all credibility when you rated an ex-pro a 3.5 player. An ex-pro who's video, one could clearly see has **LOTS** of game. Additionally, no one wants to hear you run a 4.4, 40 yard dash, or use to hit 130 mph serves back in the 60's. (which I don't believe for a second. Lastly, we are still waiting for your videos you promised a bunch of weeks back.

On to today's game. I **currently** play/drill with nationally ranked women. They are between 4.5-5.5 players. They move extremely well, and are extremely fit. Anyone one of them can not only compete with, but beat 4.5 players. I should know, because I would be rated a 4.5 judging by the fact I play in a ladder where there are 4.0-5.0 NTRP rated players (men), and am doing very well against them.

In other words, >>YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Topaz
02-19-2009, 12:23 PM
Be serious !!

They CAN'T dunk. Why? They don't jump! It's really that simple.

And in tennis players, women seem to want to play like they're women. Not Serena, Venus, or some top athletes, they could beat any mens 5.5's.

And you think what you wrote above is serious?!?

Women are going to play like women...because they ARE women!!! Nobody here, not even me, expects a (let's say) 5.0 woman to play like a 5.0 man.

However.

Men can't beat all women just because they are men. A woman is perfectly capable of training hard, running fast, moving well, and yes, even jumping. A highly rated and trained female tennis player CAN and WILL beat a man of a lesser level. THAT is the discussion here. I think.

Got it? That's what *I'm* talking about. I'm not sure what you're talking about anymore.

And, for the record, I'm a woman, and I don't have anything against jumping.

LeeD
02-19-2009, 12:25 PM
If you are talkiing the musician guy, he's not good enough for 3.5.
Other than that, I suspect you are reading hidden meanings into my posts. Which former pro are you talking about?
I said "tall guys with serve" is at least 5.0 or better.
I said LawLaw was better than that.
I said 5.5 guys has good strokes, good enough for pro events. I even told YOU why his short strokes will work in 6.0 tournaments.
So which "former pro" did I say was 3.5?
Credibility, your HEAD is off the side of your neck!
One thing I can tell, is your thinking is biased based on your likes and dislikes of the person posting !!
You don't have to like me, but I tell it like it is, and I can tell you are not thinking straight.

LeeD
02-19-2009, 12:28 PM
Topaz, you are letting women's lib get all ahold of yourself.
Yes, women can jump, can run, can cook, all those things.
But jumping and explosiveness will always be lacking compared to athletic men. Talking athletic women now.
Simple and plain.
You can argue equal pay, voting rights, all that jazz all you want, but when you compare 4.5 mens to 5.5 womens, most of the time, the man will win.
And yes, I KNOW you are female, and I'm a single male :shock::) who by my posts, will certainly remain a single male...

Sup2Dresq
02-19-2009, 12:32 PM
Drak and Topaz,

Which one of you is Lightning and which one is Thunder?

LOL

hyogen
02-19-2009, 12:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItpBL1iP5tI

http://fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/w-tennis/mtt/tremaine_sarah00.html

she'd completely dominate me--well, of course i'd let her..

and i'm sure she'd wipe out most of the guys on this board too.

that is some serious hard hitting

hyogen
02-19-2009, 12:39 PM
Topaz...
Women can be superior long distance runners.
Women can run the 100 in like 10.7 (so could I, 30 years ago).
But get it down to less than 50 yards, women, except for Serena and a few I listed, are waaaay slow off the mark, but worse, they don't stop and change directions well.
They don't jump and explode well. Obviously some physiology involved, but you say... NAAA, some women CAN.
Of course, some women can.... like maybe 5% in the world's athletes only.
And lots of men move like WOMEN. They can't change directions, they have no explosiveness, they can't jump. To those, I just say... "you move like a WOMAN!".
Consider.... top women's basketball players run up to 6'4" right?
How come only THREE can dunk a basketball into the basket?
I could at 5'7" in high school. Two handed.
SpudWebb did at the same height. One handed.
NateArchibald easily did.
Dat guy that won the dunk contest was 5'7".
Now why can't 6'4" women dunk a basketball, girl?
Because they don't like to jump !!

WOW, you could dunk with 2 hands at 5'7"??! may i ask...are you of non-white ethnicity... not trying to be racist...but a certain races do have more of those awesomely fast twitch muscle fibers... -_-

are you also muscular and cut, even if you don't work out a day in your life? :o (this is not related)...

but you sound like a super athlete.

Moz
02-19-2009, 12:59 PM
The empty can rattles the most.

raiden031
02-19-2009, 01:09 PM
Don't be fooled by Div I status. A lot of Div I schools don't even have scholarships and if you have a decent game, you're on the team!

As far as being light years ahead of a 4.5, hard to say. Video can be very deceiving. I've seen 3.5/4.0 women that can hit the crap out of the ball, look great on their serves, volleys, overheads but they are only 3.5/4.0. I've also seen 4.5 women who don't hit the crap out of the ball and have weak serves and you wonder how can they be 4.5's but they are.

I was watching a 5.0 USTA women playoff match at the Nation Tennis Center last year and taped a few points from this singles match. I expected hard hitting action but one of the girls kept double faulting and points were over in 4 or 5 shots so I stopped taping and was thinking this is 5.0 tennis??? If I showed those points, people in here would say no way they are 5.0's but one of those teams went to Nationals. The game looks so much easier to play from the sidelines.

Fordham's #1 singles player is a strong player. She made the quarters in last year's USTA National Women's Open played at the National Tennis Center and that tournament has good players. She's probably light years ahead of some 4.5 women.

I haven't seen a 4.5 woman with anywhere near the skills she had in the video and not too many 4.5 men with them either. I really think when it comes to adult leagues, most of the players are just consistent but almost never have alot of power like that or great shotmaking ability. Thats what makes it even more difficult for people on this board to self-rate themselves, especially when watching middle-aged usta league players. I imagine the average age on this board is probably 15-30 and the average adult league player is probably 40+.

lawrence
02-19-2009, 02:21 PM
no doubt she would bagel my ***, but her forehand is so ugly :( so so ugly

LeeD
02-19-2009, 02:37 PM
Very few shorter players can dunk with one hand because even when you employ the wrist to hold the ball, it's not a secure position, and consistency with practice is the key to dunking.
Two handed, worst thing to happen is you fall short, stuffing the ball into the side of the rim, ducking the head away from the net. So you get lots of attempts at two handed dunks, very few with onehanders ...you lose the ball, the ball slips 3", you can't quite secure the ball from a bounce, all those variable.
The top short guys always use some resin on their wrists and fingers, to get a more secure grip for the dunk contests. Oh, dat don't work for a game either.....
No whiteboy, me.

Kaptain Karl
02-19-2009, 02:40 PM
The girl in this video is damn good. Period. Her strokes are on par, if not way better than a man at the 4.5 level.drakulie, you shock me! You, of all people, putting an NTRP on a player based on a brief non-match video...! Astonishing.

She's good. How good? We don't yet know. Let's see more data -- in the form of match results against more "known" teams. (I can tell you she hits a better ball than most of the Varsity HS girls I coached last year ... but I cannot say she's a better player than all of them.)

Lee and Topaz - I think we should have a "TT Reality Show" where you two are handcuffed together for ... oh a week should do it. I'd pay money to see that...!

- KK

LeeD
02-19-2009, 02:49 PM
Yeah, and the day will come when some girl outruns and outgets MichaelChang too, right?
Nope, women are too smart to run and fetch like that. They'd quit tennis before resorting to all that running and fetching.
Topaz, what do you gotta say to dat?

dennis10is
02-19-2009, 03:57 PM
Sometimes I do wonder why the good Lord let us breed. I really do.

dennis10is
02-19-2009, 04:02 PM
That post is "deep" and "heavy"

Question:

Weren't you on friendly terms with Jolly and you two met when he went to the Fla for the Key Biscayne Masters last year. I know that he met with Drak.

So, what happened?

I say nice things about Jolly because he pays me. I'm an investment banker with drug and gambling addiction so I need all the money I can lay my sweating hands on.

Jay_The_Nomad
02-19-2009, 05:57 PM
It is true that women in general do not move as well as men.

This is due to their hips being wider which alters the angle of their thigh bone.

Topaz
02-19-2009, 06:52 PM
Topaz, what do you gotta say to dat?

The more you 'talk', the less reason you give me to listen. Babble away to your heart's content...you just keep digging your own hole.



I say nice things about Jolly because he pays me. I'm an investment banker with drug and gambling addiction so I need all the money I can lay my sweating hands on.

Ahhh Dennis!!! *smile* You remind me of another poster...sure you're not related to TFM in any way?

Noveson
02-19-2009, 07:15 PM
Very few shorter players can dunk with one hand because even when you employ the wrist to hold the ball, it's not a secure position, and consistency with practice is the key to dunking.
Two handed, worst thing to happen is you fall short, stuffing the ball into the side of the rim, ducking the head away from the net. So you get lots of attempts at two handed dunks, very few with onehanders ...you lose the ball, the ball slips 3", you can't quite secure the ball from a bounce, all those variable.
The top short guys always use some resin on their wrists and fingers, to get a more secure grip for the dunk contests. Oh, dat don't work for a game either.....
No whiteboy, me.

Hah what? That makes no sense. Dunking with two hands is much more difficult than with one hand, especially for a shorter person. The extra distance you get from only using one hand is quite alrge.

dennis10is
02-19-2009, 07:41 PM
Ahhh Dennis!!! *smile* You remind me of another poster...sure you're not related to TFM in any way?

I'm not related to anyone. Immaculate conception, came out of a ball machine, fully formed with Diadora clothing in the late 70's. Yes, I miss disco and funk.

I remember that there was a poster TFM but not much else.

Sup2Dresq
02-20-2009, 02:44 AM
Question:

Weren't you on friendly terms with Jolly and you two met when he went to the Fla for the Key Biscayne Masters last year. I know that he met with Drak.

So, what happened?

I say nice things about Jolly because he pays me. I'm an investment banker with drug and gambling addiction so I need all the money I can lay my sweating hands on.

I got out of finance and he stopped paying me. So there was no need to feed the false bravado and started to keep it real, like his 3.5 generous rating.

LeeD
02-20-2009, 02:15 PM
Noveson...
I just gave a bunch of reasons why it's HARDER to practice dunking ONE handed, and easier to practice two handed.
Sure, I gotta jump higher. NO biggee. But short guys can't control the ball one handed, snatching it off a dribble and bringing it up over the head in a windmill lifting motion.
Short guys need to employ arms for the extra lift, and using both hands on the ball, lifting HARD upwards gives some jumping momentum. One hand just isn't secure enough to hang onto the ball.
BTW.... at 5'3" or so, junior on the high school varsity team, I could stand under the basket, jump up, and just tip the rim. Using the arms correctly easily gave me 7-9" additional lift. I was in for rebounding, blocking out, and defense. You don't play varsity Bball at 5'3" unless you can do something besides score.

drakulie
02-20-2009, 03:45 PM
I agree. I could actually jump from one baseline and reach the other one without touching the ground. I remember the first time I tried this, I got badly hurt because I miscalculated and landed on the top of the fence. (one leg on each side) OUCH! :shock: I hate when that happens.

LeeD
02-20-2009, 04:40 PM
And therein lies why you will forever be a bad tennis player. You think you know it all, have seen it all, and nothing YOU haven't see can possibly be true.
Actually, the point guard, ElmerHicks, at 5'5" or so, could almost touch elbows on the rim.
Our 6'9" center didn't come close, and barely reach the rim.
Elmer was also a GoldenGloves bantamweight boxer.
I ran 50's and longjumped for junior high, with best LJ at 21'7" in 8th grade, good for 8th place in the all cities....
8th grade, standing long jump 9'2".
At 60 now, easy first try, no warmup 6'6".

drakulie
02-20-2009, 05:46 PM
You think you know it all, have seen it all, and nothing YOU haven't see can possibly be true.


You haven't seen me jump, yet you jump to the incorrect conclusion that I can't do what I said.

I'm telling you, I could jump really far. There was one girl who could jump the length of two tennis courts, but since she didn't like to jump, she stopped doing it.

Sup2Dresq
02-20-2009, 05:56 PM
You haven't seen me jump, yet you jump to the incorrect conclusion that I can't do what I said.

I'm telling you, I could jump really far. There was one girl who could jump the length of two tennis courts, but since she didn't like to jump, she stopped doing it.

I've seen a horse fly
I've seen a dragon fly
Even seen a house fly

But I've done seen everything when I've seen a Drakulie fly.

LeeD
02-20-2009, 06:16 PM
But I'm done seeing everything when I see a Drakulie fly....:shock:

Kaptain Karl
02-21-2009, 07:06 AM
You guys are really ... strange.

- KK

LeeD
02-21-2009, 07:22 AM
We're not really strange, just special, that's all:shock:
Basically, we're putting down the Draks man, because he can't recognize reality and would rather fantasize than face the fact some people are different than HIM.
I think you can see that.... I hope you can see that.
Not all of us are exactly like him.

Topaz
02-21-2009, 07:30 AM
^^^This is quite ironic from the poster who doesn't recognize that not all women are the same.

LeeD
02-21-2009, 07:34 AM
Topaz, please read post #181.
I DID say Serena, Justine, Venus, Evonne, Rosie, BJK, and some women move BETTER than us old farts.

Topaz
02-21-2009, 07:36 AM
^^^Was this before or after you said that women don't like to jump?

Guess what...there are more than just 'some' women who move better than even young farts.

Topaz
02-21-2009, 07:37 AM
Topaz, please read post #181.
I DID say Serena, Justine, Venus, Evonne, Rosie, BJK, and some women move BETTER than us old farts.

It is true that women in general do not move as well as men.

This is due to their hips being wider which alters the angle of their thigh bone.

Above is post #181, btw. How 'bout dat?

LeeD
02-21-2009, 07:39 AM
Yeah yeah sure...
And in theory, there COULD ever be a black president.
And in theory, someone could beat TigerWoods.
And in theory, Lebron is just another black man.
And in theory, # ONE draft choices are a slam dunk sure thing.
What? I'm WRONG one out of four?

Topaz
02-21-2009, 07:40 AM
Now...where is that ignore button again?!?

Oh yes! There it is...most excellent!

LeeD
02-21-2009, 07:40 AM
Boy, Topaz, you are one blind woman.
Can you drive a car?

Topaz
02-21-2009, 07:42 AM
What? You told me to read post #181. I did. It isn't even by you (or is it? Because if you have more than one account, I'm sure Kaptain Karl would be willing to help you out with that.) nor does it say what you said it would.

So, who is the blind one here?

Thanks, and God Bless.

LeeD
02-21-2009, 07:45 AM
You one funny blind girl, aren't you?
And when 54% of voters decide it's time for a black president, you'll continue to monitor the minority who DID'NT !!:shock::shock::shock:

Sup2Dresq
02-21-2009, 07:54 AM
What? You told me to read post #181. I did. It isn't even by you (or is it? Because if you have more than one account, I'm sure Kaptain Karl would be willing to help you out with that.) nor does it say what you said it would.

So, who is the blind one here?

Thanks, and God Bless.

Not like its everyday Topaz drives on the wrong side of the road.

I agree with Topaz. This girl could beat the old farts, the pirate bravado, the flying drak, and the midget slam dunkers.

Topaz
02-21-2009, 10:17 AM
Not like its everyday Topaz drives on the wrong side of the road.

I'm pretty sure it was because I had my hooded sweatshirt on backward.

I agree with Topaz. This girl could beat the old farts, the pirate bravado, the flying drak, and the midget slam dunkers.

Now, that's an impressive group of people right there!

Sup2Dresq
02-21-2009, 11:38 AM
I'm pretty sure it was because I had my hooded sweatshirt on backward.





The left side of the road, the right side of the road....English...Australian...

All relatively the same to you. Until your passengers are screaming for their lives.

J011yroger
02-21-2009, 03:35 PM
^^^Was this before or after you said that women don't like to jump?

I have never met a woman who liked to jump. Maybe it is because I am only 26, or maybe because it is a secret thing that they like, but don't talk about. But in my life, I have never had a woman tell me that she liked to jump. I have seen women jump, I have been on track teams where women competed in jumping events, but none of them ever confessed to liking it.

On the counter side, I have never met a man who admitted to liking to jump.

Maybe jumping just isn't that much fun.

As I told Dennis and Warren today at lunch, my adventures in the long jump didn't work out so well for me. So I am most assuredly not one of these elusive people who likes to jump.

P.S. I am not 5'7", and I can't dunk, not with one hand, not with two hands, not with a fox, not in a box.

J

dennis10is
02-21-2009, 06:10 PM
Looking into the mist of time, when I was in my twenties I was unbreakable in my service game, I would take off behind the baseline, and land one foot from the net, as I was coming down for a landing, I would basically spike the ball and it would land in the service box and bounce over the fence.

On the return of serve, I would stand just behind the service box and half-volley their serves for winners.

I beat Sampras, Agassi, Lendl, Edberg, all of the so called "greats" but I had a higher calling, working for the Man to protect America from bionic termite infestations. Now that I have won the battle against the dreaded termite hive, I'm too old to just win with aces and return winners, I'm just a lowly 6.0 now. I have to hit groundies, volleys, things I never had to use before in my glory days.

I had all the hotties of the day, Brooke Shields before Agassi, Christine Brinkley before Billy Joe, Cindy Crawford before Richard Gere. Those marriages all ended in divorce because I'm irreplaceable. For kicks I played with Ginger and Amber Lynn, Traci Lords, Pam Anderson, Jenna Jameson, even Seka.

It sucks getting old, I used to play 1 on 6 (including Kurt Rambis) against the 80's Lakers and beat them. They couldn't stop me. I used to played against the combined Cowboys and Steelers and they couldn't beat me either. I would rush Stauback and if he manages to release the ball, I would turn around and chase after it and intercept it before the receivers can catch it. Too bad they wouldn't let me throw the ball to myself so I had to run the ball in every possesion. With my 100 yards plus throwing range (against a steady 40 mph headwind), I could have easily launch the ball, and run down field to catch it.

But, I'm a humble guy and I know my limits. I now volunteer to teach our CIA super models agents in the fine art of seduction and love making. They are so young and eager and their skin are so smooth and smell nice.

LeeD
02-22-2009, 09:28 AM
OK, OK, sorry...
Denis, you are OK. Your post is idiotic!:twisted::twisted:

J011yroger
02-22-2009, 10:16 AM
OK, OK, sorry...
Denis, you are OK. Your post is idiotic!:twisted::twisted:

Fair enough ;)

J

Tennisman912
02-22-2009, 11:01 AM
The rampant ignorance of so many in this thread and TT in general is simply mind-boggling. There is a reason most don’t stick around to wade through pages of crap for a few nuggets of info. I will list one example of the type of ignorance I mean and no offense but come on with statements like this and all the others that are similar. One example by MegacedU thinking that a 3.0-3.5 pusher would not get blown out by this girl because they can keep it in play. No one who plays tennis would ever say anything this out in left field. That is as bad as seriously thinking J011yroger is a 3.5 which I hope was a joke but it didn’t seem like it.

This girl no matter how many bash her would beat 99% of this board without trying. Yes, she is just hitting but if you are 4.0 and below you will get double bageled almost every time if she is trying. She is way smoother than most of the 4.5 men I know and she would abuse 4.5 women. A good 4.5 man would have to work awful hard to beat her and might not, especially in a long match. A real 5.0 guy, not the mythical and imaginary 5.0 so many believe exists here, would beat her as they would just stretch her out a bit and it would be over. Advanced players here know what I mean by this. Anyone below 5.0 would struggle more with this because they won’t have the game to get in position to execute it or even know what they should do with rare exception. Her strokes are well grooved beyond what most could hope for. Yes, match results matter most but you can learn a lot watching someone hit.

I just don’t see how so many can be so far out of whack with tennis reality. Reading down the NTRP guidelines and saying I can do that and I can do that is only fooling oneself. It seems so few realize how good 5.0+ players (men or women) really are. Sorry. Rant over. Bash away and further prove me right.

P.S. I like to jump.:twisted:

TM

LeeD
02-22-2009, 11:17 AM
Tennisman, you don't have to read all the posts.
You are right on. I also said she was easy 5.0 womens, maybe 5.5.
As such, only 4.5's with big games can consistently beat her. Big games don't necessarily mean big hitting, but can mean angles, sliced low and hard, drop shots, big serves, and wide angles serving, and good deep lobs.
Very few 4.0's would have much chance.
No 3.5's have a chance.

BounceHitBounceHit
02-27-2009, 09:35 AM
Good enough to beat 90+ % of the posters on this board. Anyone who is not a strong 4.5+ player will lose to her. (badly).

I just ran across this thread. I do NOT want to stir up any animosity, NOR attempt to compare any two players seen only in video (be they male or female). However, what I CAN bring to the discussion is plenty of experience playing competitive sets against and practicing with both top level DI females AND former WTA pros. ;)

Here is the low down: this girl (as a DI level player, with obviously highly developed strokes) will offer an engaging, enjoyable, and challenging match up for ANY male player below the 5.5 level. A young 5.0 male will probably win with reasonable ease. An older (let's say 40 or above, though obviously this is an arbitrary choice and will not ALWAYS apply) 5.5/6.0 (ie 'ranked') male player may have an edge in the match-up and MIGHT defeat her, but he will certainly know he's had a work out by the time she is done with him! :) Additionally, IMO this fact will not be predicated on his offering her any variety of 'handicap' (ie limiting his serve, shot selection, etc)

I've played with people like her, LOTS. I've won some and lost some. But it was always fun. Isn't that what (non-professional/ameteur) tennis is supposed to be about? ;) :confused:

Best,

CC

BounceHitBounceHit
02-27-2009, 09:43 AM
Forgot to answer the OP's original question!

Here goes: "How good is this girl?"

REALLY GOOD. ;)

CC

BounceHitBounceHit
02-27-2009, 09:52 AM
I'm sorry. I just realized I'd posted in this thread before! :oops: This proves cognitive skills decay more rapidly than motor skills (I can still hit a tennis ball, I just can't remember posting about hitting tennis balls!) :oops: CC

Julieta
02-27-2009, 10:01 AM
I just ran across this thread. I do NOT want to stir up any animosity, NOR attempt to compare any two players seen only in video (be they male or female). However, what I CAN bring to the discussion is plenty of experience playing competitive sets against and practicing with both top level DI females AND former WTA pros. ;)

Here is the low down: this girl (as a DI level player, with obviously highly developed strokes) will offer an engaging, enjoyable, and challenging match up for ANY male player below the 5.5 level. A young 5.5 male will probably win with reasonable ease. An older (let's say 40 or above, though obviously this is an arbitrary choice and will not ALWAYS apply) 5.5/6.0 (ie 'ranked') male player may have an edge in the match-up and MIGHT defeat her, but he will certainly know he's had a work out by the time she is done with him! :) Additionally, IMO this fact will not be predicated on his offering her any variety of 'handicap' (ie limiting his serve, shot selection, etc)

I've played with people like her, LOTS. I've won some and lost some. But it was always fun. Isn't that what (non-professional/ameteur) tennis is supposed to be about? ;) :confused:

Best,

CC

I like your posts. I would agree with the above in many cases. However, regarding this example, I think this player would struggle to win a point off a 5.5 male. Her shots look good in this video..but it is a very controlled example. There is one hint of why she is struggling in college matches. I think it might be about a minute or so into it, she gets a shot on the run (they edit out the result). It looks like her forehand breaks down. Therefore a high level male, probably a strong 4.5 and definitely a 5.0+, could get her on the run and the odds would not be in her favor. I also think a slice into her would be hard for her to handle as well.

Does anyone else find it strange that she is assumed to be so good while poor Tony Larson has to post links to his results and people still give him a hard time?

I dont want it to sound like I'm running this player down, as I have posted previously, she is a very nice player. And I think it is awesome that she made it to a DI school coming from Halifax, NS (loads of money to travel from there and a small junior scene). She is very athletic and if she works hard, she will continue to improve. But I just cant see her beating high level men if she is struggling against her peers. It is pretty hard for women to beat men. It doesn't mean they are bad athletes, its just different. I knew a girl who was at the peak of her career and she lost to an out of shape guy who smoked and had a beer gut.

Skanavis
02-27-2009, 10:21 AM
Yea, that video is definitely only her bests. She probably played over 2 hours, and put her best shots into those 3 minutes. I cant take much from this, as if you saw my best 3 minutes out of 3 hours, you'd think i was a 4.5, when im only a 3.5(I think). And whoever she's playing is absolutely terrible, my 2.0 friends on JV could get/return some of those balls that the guy just left. I would like to see her in a true match up to base any ranking on her. I would say most 4.5 and 5.0 males could take her down.

Moz
02-27-2009, 10:30 AM
I'm sorry. I just realized I'd posted in this thread before! :oops: This proves cognitive skills decay more rapidly than motor skills (I can still hit a tennis ball, I just can't remember posting about hitting tennis balls!) :oops: CC

It would be even more worrying if you disagreed with yourself on the same thread without remembering. That's only a couple of years away from having a pitched battle with yourself on the street like I do.

BounceHitBounceHit
02-27-2009, 11:09 AM
I like your posts. I would agree with the above in many cases. However, regarding this example, I think this player would struggle to win a point off a 5.5 male. Her shots look good in this video..but it is a very controlled example. There is one hint of why she is struggling in college matches. I think it might be about a minute or so into it, she gets a shot on the run (they edit out the result). It looks like her forehand breaks down. Therefore a high level male, probably a strong 4.5 and definitely a 5.0+, could get her on the run and the odds would not be in her favor. I also think a slice into her would be hard for her to handle as well.

Does anyone else find it strange that she is assumed to be so good while poor Tony Larson has to post links to his results and people still give him a hard time?

I dont want it to sound like I'm running this player down, as I have posted previously, she is a very nice player. And I think it is awesome that she made it to a DI school coming from Halifax, NS (loads of money to travel from there and a small junior scene). She is very athletic and if she works hard, she will continue to improve. But I just cant see her beating high level men if she is struggling against her peers. It is pretty hard for women to beat men. It doesn't mean they are bad athletes, its just different. I knew a girl who was at the peak of her career and she lost to an out of shape guy who smoked and had a beer gut.

Thanks, and I see your point. After re-reading my post, I realized I made a typo. I meant to say a 'young 5.0 male' not 'young 5.5 male'. I'd also like to point out that my expectation for the match between she and a 5.0 player (ie 'anyone BELOW the 5.5 level') would be an 'engaging, entertaining, challenging, etc, etc, match). NOT that she would win (at least not often).

As for TonLars, that stuff is a joke. Tony is a 6.0 player, plain and simple. I reiterate: if any of you disagree with me, fly to Minnesota, play him in a two out of three set match, and post the video here.

Best,

CC

BounceHitBounceHit
02-27-2009, 11:12 AM
It would be even more worrying if you disagreed with yourself on the same thread without remembering. That's only a couple of years away from having a pitched battle with yourself on the street like I do.

Excellent point! I appreciate it Moz! Best, CC

mtommer
02-27-2009, 11:21 AM
It would be even more worrying if you disagreed with yourself on the same thread without remembering. That's only a couple of years away from having a pitched battle with yourself on the street like I do.

Here goes: "How good is this girl?"

REALLY GOOD.


I'm sorry, I have to disagree here. I've played with many women, both high level DI and WTA level. From experience this girl is not very good.


I'm not trying to offend you but I have actually played with pros and DI and those women would smack the pants off (now, now, now everyone http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/mad/mad0025.gif) most men with an honest 4.5-5.0 ranking

I'm sorry, you're delusional. You know, you always post like you know what you're talking about. You're one of the most egotistical posters on this board. Always coming in here acting all high and mighty. "Oh, I play with pros blah, blah, blah...". Disgusting.

I'm sorry I seem to have upset you. There is no need to trash talk as I haven't called you names or been rude to you at all. Others here can vouch for my experience.

..........:)

BounceHitBounceHit
02-27-2009, 03:01 PM
..........:)

Now I am REALLY confused! ;) CC

mixertefera
02-27-2009, 04:53 PM
Yea, that video is definitely only her bests. She probably played over 2 hours, and put her best shots into those 3 minutes. I cant take much from this, as if you saw my best 3 minutes out of 3 hours, you'd think i was a 4.5, when im only a 3.5(I think). And whoever she's playing is absolutely terrible, my 2.0 friends on JV could get/return some of those balls that the guy just left. I would like to see her in a true match up to base any ranking on her. I would say most 4.5 and 5.0 males could take her down.

2.0 play JV where you are we have alest 3.0 and higher for JV

LeeD
02-27-2009, 05:13 PM
Gee, most real 4.5 and 5.0 males are good enough for Div11 singles, and maybe Div 1 lower singles....they SHOULD beat her.
:):) The men can JUMP :)

Skanavis
02-27-2009, 05:39 PM
2.0 play JV where you are we have alest 3.0 and higher for JV

Yea i go to a smaller school, only about 1000 kids boys and girls. And Were not a big tennis school or anything, so theres no tryouts, everyone just makes the team. And the 2.0 i was referring to is the bottom half of our j.V. The other half is better than that.