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Datacipher
02-27-2005, 01:51 PM
Tennis Week:

"John McEnroe celebrated his 46th birthday on February 16th, but the energetic New Yorker isnt showing signs of growing up any time soon. Recalling the soft touch and imaginative all-court flair of his youth, McEnroe mesmerized Frankfurt fans with todays 6-2, 6-4 dissection of Cedric Pioline to capture the first Delta Tour of Champions title of the year in Frankfurt.

In ******ing a 4-0 lead to start the match, a masterful McEnroe picked Pioline apart with angles and an array of spins that put the Frenchman in awkward positions on the court. Giving up 11 years in age to the 35-year-old Pioline, a relaxed McEnroe felt the shots flow from the outset looked to be in good spirits for much of the match.

"Today was nice because not only did I play great but I felt good on the court," McEnroe told senior tour communications director David Law. "When that happens you make the most of it because it doesnt happen that often any more! Cedric came out of a very tough group where they were beating up on each other, and the goal for me was to peak for the last day or two. The last couple of months Ive been working out hard so that I could do that."

Pioline had beaten Ivanisevic and Courier. Ivanisevice ended up in the 3rd spot. Mcenroe had beaten Leconte, Pernfors and Cash. Good week for little Pernfors and Anders Jarryd as well who beat Courier and lost to Ivanisevic in final tie breaker.

pound cat
02-27-2005, 03:28 PM
First Andre, now, why not Mac? Could be good for the USA DC team.

Chadwixx
02-27-2005, 04:18 PM
cause the bryan brothers are winning.

mcenroe cant hang at singles with the guys on tour. he can play competitive points but cannot maintain it through out 3 out of 5 sets.

wildbill88AA
02-27-2005, 04:52 PM
mac quit the tour years ago because he couldnt compete at that level. sounds like the tournament had a goofy format. wheres mats, edberg, becker, etc. weak field.

Rabbit
02-27-2005, 05:07 PM
mac quit the tour years ago because he couldnt compete at that level. sounds like the tournament had a goofy format. wheres mats, edberg, becker, etc. weak field.

I don't know about weak field. Wilander routinely gets drummed in the senior events, his game hasn't translated very well. And don't look now, but McEnroe played Mario Ancic in a SuperSet event and lost to him 8-6. McEnroe is only giving away 25 years to his younger opponent. Last year, McEnroe beat Roddick in a WTT match (one set). While I agree that McEnroe can't play tour events any longer, for one set when he's motivated, he can play with anyone in the world. He's playing well enough that Jimmy Connors, who has hated him for as long as they've known each other, is wanting to team up with him against Sampras and anyone (probably Agassi) for a big money doubles event.

baseliner
02-27-2005, 05:48 PM
Just proves Jimmy Conners will do anything for money.

christo
02-27-2005, 06:24 PM
As Lendl once said," if someone is throwing money at you , why turn your nose up at it"

Datacipher
02-28-2005, 01:07 AM
I don't know about weak field. Wilander routinely gets drummed in the senior events, his game hasn't translated very well. .

True and although Becker is a good addition, I dont' believe Edberg has ever played the Delta tour. He's too busy playing racquetlon(sp?) lol.

I think the field was pretty strong with a good sampling of the younger guns, Pioline, Ivanisevic, Courier, the talented Leconte, the highly underrated Pernfors, tough Jarryd and Cash.

One of the other matches:

Courier/Jarryd

Jarryd had won their high-quality, fiercely contested match on two tie-break sets, 7-6 (5), 7-6(4).

It was quite competitive, wasnt it? Courier said afterwards.

The points were hard fought, there were lots of chances on both sides and it was tough because Anders was all over my serve. Not too many guys have been able to get at my serve in recent tournaments. He returned beautifully and took his chances. Im a little bit frustrated because I had so many chances and I didnt pull them off.

It means that Courier will have his work cut out to come through a brutal Group B, with matches against Goran Ivanisevic and Cedric Pioline still to come. Courier, however, remains undaunted.

I was very much looking forward to this tournament when I saw my draw because I knew that I would have three tough matches with Anders, Pioline and Ivanisevic, he said.

I saw how well Anders played indoors on this exact surface at the Albert Hall in December so I knew that he was going to be the next most difficult opponent to Goran. It wasnt ideal meeting Anders straight out of the blocks but I do love the competition and I do want it to push me. It certainly did that tonight.

For Jarryd, who earned plaudits for the way he stood in for Sergi Bruguera and reached the semifinals in London, it was a real treat.

It was a good match and I played really well, said Jarryd.

I struggled at the start but came back strong and was really happy with my performance. For me its just great to play. To be able to play these guys is a lot of fun and to win is an extra bonus. Maybe I dont hit my shots as well as 15 years ago, but Im not too bad!

35ft6
02-28-2005, 02:15 AM
I don't know about weak field. Wilander routinely gets drummed in the senior events, his game hasn't translated very well. And don't look now, but McEnroe played Mario Ancic in a SuperSet event and lost to him 8-6. McEnroe is only giving away 25 years to his younger opponent. Last year, McEnroe beat Roddick in a WTT match (one set). I saw him rip Andrew Murry in Superset Tennis, 6-1. But as for Roddick and Ancic -- I don't think those guys were really trying. I really don't.

I saw Mac play at this club in Queens a few times, and one of the members I was playing with said the club's top teaching pro has beat Mac before at least once. Mac is great. He's awesome. But give him a wildcard into a real tournament, not an exhibition or WTT match, and he would get smoked. IMO.

Datacipher
02-28-2005, 02:43 AM
I saw him rip Andrew Murry in Superset Tennis, 6-1. But as for Roddick and Ancic -- I don't think those guys were really trying. I really don't.

I saw Mac play at this club in Queens a few times, and one of the members I was playing with said the club's top teaching pro has beat Mac before at least once. Mac is great. He's awesome. But give him a wildcard into a real tournament, not an exhibition or WTT match, and he would get smoked. IMO.

Now, I'd certainly concede that the players wouldn't be as focused at the superset event as at a tour event, but not really trying? I can't buy that. No pro wants to get beaten by a long retired old man. Yes, if he were truly playing 4.5 tennis, they might give him a few games, but would they go to the wire in extended sets?

Further, putting aside the fact we're getting that information 2nd hand through you and you got it 2nd hand through a Queens club member, who got it 2nd hand through the club's teaching pro, even if we accept that the teaching pro beat Mac, which seems more likely to you: that Mac wasn't really trying when practicing against the teaching pro, or that Ancic(who eventually won the event) wasn't really trying in a winner take all event for half a million dollars in which he went 8-6 with Mac? I guess Rusedski(the other finalist) wasn't trying either when he went 11-9 with Becker? Rusedski gave Becker match points, so he must really have not cared about the money...which makes one wonder why he'd be there at all....

35ft6
02-28-2005, 03:05 AM
No pro wants to get beaten by a long retired old man. Yes, if he were truly playing 4.5 tennis, they might give him a few games, but would they go to the wire in extended sets? In my opinion, they realize too late how tough Mac is going to be, and they're only able to turn it on enough and in time to eke out a win. But it's only my opinion, I could be wrong.Further, putting aside the fact we're getting that information 2nd hand through you and you got it 2nd hand through a Queens club member, who got it 2nd hand through the club's teaching pro, even if we accept that the teaching pro beat Mac, I was skeptical, too. The pro was a decent satelitte player. In fact, there was a challenger or futures or something held at the club and he won it rather convincingly.

And this guy watched part of the match in question, and he wasn't just some flakey liar. I trusted his story. In his opinion, it was just a matter of a guy in his twenties simply being too young for Mac on that day. BTW, the indoor courts at this place was red clay, the outdoor courts were green clay.which seems more likely to you: that Mac wasn't really trying when practicing against the teaching pro, or that Ancic(who eventually won the event) wasn't really trying in a winner take all event for half a million dollars in which he went 8-6 with Mac? "Wasn't really trying" can mean a lot of things. I'm not saying he went out there hung over, wearing a thong, and half asleep; I think Ancic wanted to win. I think 1) he underestimated McEnroe and 2) he wasn't treating it with the same focus and intensity as he would a match with ATP points on the line.

A 20 year old kid going out there for Superset Tennis, sort of wondering what the event is about, going up against Mac, who loves to talk about how he can hang with anybody for a set -- we're talking about two very different levels of motivation, intensity, and conviction of play. That's all I'm saying.I guess Rusedski(the other finalist) wasn't trying either when he went 11-9 with Becker? Rusedski gave Becker match points, so he must really have not cared about the money...which makes one wonder why he'd be there at all.... I don't know how Rusedski and Becker got into this conversation. I thought we were talking about McEnroe.

35ft6
02-28-2005, 03:15 AM
But since you brougt Becker up...

I was watching a seniors match between Becker and Mac a couple of months ago. Becker was absolutely destroying Mac. It could hardly have been more one sided. Becker wins the first set, or whatever, and then all of the sudden he starts missing the easiest shots. And he doesn't seem all that upset. Mac gets back into the match, wins the second, but doesn't seem all pumped up and pleased about it. Becker wins in the tie-breaker/third set.

Am I suggesting that Becker eased up in order to allow a closer, longer, more value for the money, give the people what they want type of match? Yes yes yes.

With that said, I think Andrew Murray, 2004 US Open junior champ, was totally trying and Mac still smoked him. It was a fast indoor surface, but still.

Going back to the teaching pro who beat Mac story, I'd seen the pro hit with Mac on at least 3 separate occasions, and he may not have been completely caught off guard by Mac's unique and varied attack the way Murray was.

One of the days I saw Mac playing the pro they were outside and Mac was absolutely smoking the pro. I couldn't imagine how it was ever close. Some dude opined that Mac was upset at having lost to Leconte in Central Park a month earlier.

Anyway...

Rabbit
02-28-2005, 04:15 AM
Ancic suprised by Mac enough to let the set go to 8-6? I don't think so. I don't think any 20-year old wants to look competitive against a 45-year old. The only way I'd buy this is if Ancic somehow thought he was playing his dad and had sympathy (which Mac is old enough to be). I watched them play, albeit on TV, and Ancic showed no signs of giving points to McEnroe. It's a shame that Henman had to pull out because he was going to try and show Mac how far removed he was from the game.

Rusedski/Becker came into the conversation because it was analogous to McEnroe/Ancic. You have a retired pro playing a current ATP pro. Rusedski still considers himself a top-tenner, I've heard him say as much in interviews. Do you really think he'd want to go to a tiebreak with Becker???

Russell Finch
02-28-2005, 05:58 AM
I saw Jarryd v Muster at the Albert Hall last year and Jarryd was comfortably on top until he got injured and retired so I'm not surprised to see him getting good results. There's lots of talk of McEnroe's age but Jarryd is 43/44 too.

uNIVERSE mAN
02-28-2005, 08:47 PM
That was probably a tiebreak that Ancic won 8-6 :P

Deuce
02-28-2005, 10:53 PM
Have to disagree with you, Rabbit...

McEnroe being the ultimate egomaniac and showman, needing a spotlight focussed on him, and possessing still a rather large influence, I take all of his results with a very large grain of salt.

He has the 'pull' (and ego) to 'fix' matches in his favor, and I believe this occurs routinely. He certainly has more 'pull' than a kid like Ancic.

As well, no matter who is involved, I'm always quite skeptical about the results of various exhibition type matches.

As for Connors and McEnroe - I think they got over their hatred for each other quite a while ago. While neither seems to possess a ton of maturity - and both their egos are huge - I believe they have both matured since the early-mid 80s, when their 'hatred' for each other was well known. While they may not have an extremely close friendship today, I do believe that they do speak from time to time, and are civil and cordial when they do. I believe it's been this way for at least the past 10 years or so, since they both retired from the tour. Even in their last few years on the tour, there were no signs of the previous 'hatred'/jealousy they both felt for the other.

Rabbit
03-01-2005, 04:48 AM
That was probably a tiebreak that Ancic won 8-6 :P

Nope, the Supeset tennis is one set of tennis, however, if the contestants are even, the set goes to 10 all before a tiebreak.

Deuce - his results on the Senior (Delta) Tour don't bear that out. There was more than one event last season in Europe when McEnroe lost his round robin matches and didn't appear in the semis. Jim Courier and Richard Kraijcek pretty much ruled the roost. I've seen McEnroe play in the last year or so against a former tour pro who was eight years his junior. In this particular match, McEnroe won 6-2, 6-1 which avenged a WTT match from earlier in their careers. Anyway, the interesting thing was that McEnroe made less than a half dozen forays into the net. He was actually playing from the baseline in an attempt to give the crowd a match. I was very impressed with his game. If he's lost a step in court speed, it's only one.

McEnroe also played and beat Roddick in a WTT match, one setter. I have never heard of WTT being fixed, especially the singles; but anything is possible. If Ancic was spotting McEnroe games, I certainly couldn't spot it. Ancic broke McEnroe early and a couple of games later was broken, I thought legitimately, by McEnroe. It would seem to me that if Ancic was playing loose with his game he would've taken it further than 6 all before winning. I also don't see a 20-year old playing in a winner take all format giving ground to a guy old enough to be his father. I know when I was twenty, I wouldn't have done it for any amount of money. The static from your contemporaries would make it not worth any amount of money.