PDA

View Full Version : Lighter racket = more racket head speed?


Thirteen
02-09-2009, 05:42 PM
Hi guys,

I'm currently using a PSC 6.1 95. Originally, I felt that as long as I hit with good technique, the swingweight of the racket wouldn't matter. I've been using it for about 7-8 months, and never tried anything else. However, I recently hit with an APD and found it much more manoeuverable. I'd assume that I could just hit the gym, but could it be that the PSC is just physically overwhelming me? I'm 163cm (5ft4) tall and 68kg (about 150lbs). I'm getting 2 LM Radicals to try this weekend so we'll see how it goes.

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 05:50 PM
Better technique = more racquet head speed.

Matt

datennisboy87
02-09-2009, 05:51 PM
If your referring to groundstrokes, the heavier racquet will get you more racquet head speed as long as you contact far out in front. (Straight arm). If you don't hit straight arm, then a heavy racquet is generally not a good idea.

good luck

LeeD
02-09-2009, 05:52 PM
We're the same weight, but I"m like 3 decades older....:)
Lighter rackets, especially headlight and smaller frames, DO swing faster. However, pure fast swing is only a part of the equation. "Plow thru" is sorta another consideration. How hard your opponent hits, and consistently HOW DEEP, is something to consider also.
Weight allows you to counter deep, heavy balls. If you don't play against deep heavy balls, lighter rackets work great. If you're old and feeble, light and stiff is NOT great, against heavy hitters.
LM Rads are great rackets, about 1/2 oz lighter than my Mfill200's 18x20's. They work really well.
Younger players, most trying to hit heavy topspin, would be helped by lighter weight, and possibly bigger headed rackets.
If you want to retain a big first serve (sorry, I"m like 7" taller), a heavier racket is consistent and easy on the arm and technique. Volleys, small headed, when struck clean, are much crisper.
Return of serve, you gotta have the technique, so maybe matters little big or small, slightly light or slightly heavy.

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 05:52 PM
If your referring to groundstrokes, the heavier racquet will get you more racquet head speed as long as you contact far out in front. (Straight arm). If you don't hit straight arm, then a heavy racquet is generally not a good idea.

good luck

Gonzalez hits with a double bend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFibX-inICg

:shock:

datennisboy87
02-09-2009, 05:56 PM
Gonzalez hits with a double bend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFibX-inICg

:shock:


yes but his racquet is not that heavy to the best of my knowledge. (I may be wrong.) Also federer gets much more racquet head speed than gonzo. Racquet head speed doesnt necessarily turn into power. Federer imparts lots of spin on his balls compared to the flatter gonzo balls.

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 06:01 PM
yes but his racquet is not that heavy to the best of my knowledge. (I may be wrong.) Also federer gets much more racquet head speed than gonzo. Racquet head speed doesnt necessarily turn into power. Federer imparts lots of spin on his balls compared to the flatter gonzo balls.

180 km = around 112 MPH. That some serious speed. And how do you know that Fed hits with more RHS anyway? Did you ask him?

datennisboy87
02-09-2009, 06:03 PM
180 km = around 112 MPH. That some serious speed. And how do you know that Fed hits with more RHS anyway? Did you ask him?


Look at the slow mo side by side on youtube. Federers racquet goes much faster

LeeD
02-09-2009, 06:08 PM
Ha ha..
Not saying we were close....
Old daze, we'd put on tennis demonstrations for the kids.
#1 for CCSF (Div111) and I'd go to the ghetto (on paid arrangement), hit some in front of maybe 50 odd ghetto kids, and when they got bored, we'd do this demo.....
I'd hit a flat 120+ serve to Dexter's forehand (pre arranged), he'd smack it back at maybe 100+ and the kids just dropped jaws. Suddenly, they were wide awake, wide eyed, and fully interested. :twisted::shock:
Don't know results, I quit serious tennis couple years later.....:(:(

Thirteen
02-09-2009, 06:08 PM
yes but we can't compare cross species. federer is superhuman and gonzalez is a RAGING BULL RAWRRRRRR

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 06:12 PM
Look at the slow mo side by side on youtube. Federers racquet goes much faster

Because the Gonzo clip could never be slowed down more, hahahahaha!

You're funny.

150mph_
02-09-2009, 06:13 PM
We're the same weight, but I"m like 3 decades older....:)
Lighter rackets, especially headlight and smaller frames, DO swing faster. However, pure fast swing is only a part of the equation. "Plow thru" is sorta another consideration. How hard your opponent hits, and consistently HOW DEEP, is something to consider also.
Weight allows you to counter deep, heavy balls. If you don't play against deep heavy balls, lighter rackets work great. If you're old and feeble, light and stiff is NOT great, against heavy hitters.
LM Rads are great rackets, about 1/2 oz lighter than my Mfill200's 18x20's. They work really well.
Younger players, most trying to hit heavy topspin, would be helped by lighter weight, and possibly bigger headed rackets.
If you want to retain a big first serve (sorry, I"m like 7" taller), a heavier racket is consistent and easy on the arm and technique. Volleys, small headed, when struck clean, are much crisper.
Return of serve, you gotta have the technique, so maybe matters little big or small, slightly light or slightly heavy.

i always felt the same about lighter racquets... i use the n6.1 which is on the heavy side... but whenever i try a lighter one like prince speedport black (bryans) the ball goes too powerful and way out..
whats with that then...

datennisboy87
02-09-2009, 06:14 PM
Because the Gonzo clip could never be slowed down more, hahahahaha!

You're funny.

Well I assume that if you find the australian open federer one and the australian open gonzo one espn would have recorded them at the same speed.....

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 06:16 PM
Well I assume that if you find the australian open federer one and the australian open gonzo one espn would have recorded them at the same speed.....

In short, no. Gonzo hits with just as much, if not more than Federer. However, this does not mean his forehand is necessarily better.

All the best,

Matt

dcjaybutchdc
02-09-2009, 06:16 PM
i wish i was good

dcjaybutchdc
02-09-2009, 06:17 PM
hahahhahahaha

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 06:18 PM
^^ go practice some serves

Problem? No arrogance intended, really. :confused:

Am trying to figure out how to post right now, sorry if I came off as stuck up or something.

dcjaybutchdc
02-09-2009, 06:19 PM
Problem? No arrogance intended, really. :confused:

Am trying to figure out how to post right now, sorry if I came off as stuck up or something.

oh it was to Thirteen but his somehow got all the way up there. and there was a jk after =P

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 06:24 PM
oh it was to Thirteen but his somehow got all the way up there. and there was a jk after =P
Ah, gotcha.

LeeD
02-09-2009, 06:27 PM
150....
If you hit against slow moving short balls, a lighter racket feels really good, hits long a lot, and you feel like GOD.
Guess what? As you improve your level, your competition gets stronger, bigger, hits harder, hits deeper, and that lightweight racket might not be the peachy keen pogo stick it was against inferior players.
Now given Nadal's physique and skills, he can use whatever he wants.
We can't. We don't have Nadal's skills or build.
S'long ago, before most of you were born, the Wilson team had me string up some rackets for CowPalaces' slow carpet courts. Stockton's racket was 13oz unstrung! RaulRameriz's measure 1/2 oz lighter. Mike Cahill's (#1 at USC) was stock 12oz unstrung. Cahill also had some StanSmiths, stiffer and heavier, but I only saw them in his bag.

junbumkim
02-09-2009, 06:29 PM
Obviously, if something is lighter, you will be able to swing it faster.

Even with sound techniques, people benefit from adding or reducing on their rackets.

In your case, you may have found the new racket more manuvable since you were used to such a heavy frame.

Djokovicfan4life
02-09-2009, 06:42 PM
Obviously, if something is lighter, you will be able to swing it faster.



NO. I can swing my 12 oz Fischer M pro much faster than a 9.5 oz. OS racquet.

You have to take into account the balance of the racquet as well.

Jackie T. Stephens
02-09-2009, 06:45 PM
I prefer heavy frames, I'm a volleyer but I do bang at the baseline but that's not me.

fuzz nation
02-09-2009, 07:19 PM
Thirteen: You'll probably find that there's a significant tradeoff when you use a lighter vs. a heavier racquet and each has a plus and a minus column. You're already recognizing the maneuverability issue and that's important in terms of comfortably and consistently putting the strings on the ball.

A heavier frame can give you more inertia to work the ball with, but you've obviously got to be able to swing it well enough to do the job. Personally, I like to go to the net a lot and if my racquet is too light, it's too unstable for me and I can't volley effectively with it. I also have found that there's an upper limit to the serving power in a frame if it's not as heavy as I like. I've actually had some 6.1 Classics for a long time and I also owned a pair of midplus LM Radicals for a while, too. The Heads were a bit lighter than I preferred, but they were nice baseline hitters with decent feel.

Conventional wisdom often says that you should use the heaviest racquet that you can comfortably use all afternoon. This advice is reasonable as long as it doesn't get you leaning toward a heavier racquet than you need. You may want to instead be careful to avoid a racquet that's too light with not enough stability or mass to work the ball the way you want to with your typical swing. Since you're going to try the Radicals yourself, you ought to be able to make an informed comparison.

LeeD
02-10-2009, 08:52 AM
Agree with DJ for life....
My Mfil 200's, thos 12.4 oz strung, can be swung much faster than my 10 oz TStick oversizers.
Smaller head, less air drag.

150mph_
02-10-2009, 09:09 AM
150....
If you hit against slow moving short balls, a lighter racket feels really good, hits long a lot, and you feel like GOD.
Guess what? As you improve your level, your competition gets stronger, bigger, hits harder, hits deeper, and that lightweight racket might not be the peachy keen pogo stick it was against inferior players.
Now given Nadal's physique and skills, he can use whatever he wants.
We can't. We don't have Nadal's skills or build.
S'long ago, before most of you were born, the Wilson team had me string up some rackets for CowPalaces' slow carpet courts. Stockton's racket was 13oz unstrung! RaulRameriz's measure 1/2 oz lighter. Mike Cahill's (#1 at USC) was stock 12oz unstrung. Cahill also had some StanSmiths, stiffer and heavier, but I only saw them in his bag.

i think my n6.1s are as heavy i'm willing to go.. i used a ps 85 ... that was one interesting experience i'd not like to relive...
the thing was as heavy as a CRT television, imagine lifting a CRT television with 1 hand and swinging it

LeeD
02-10-2009, 09:15 AM
NOT saying you should use heavy rackets...;
TomasMuster was reputed to weigh his rackets to almost 14 oz strung!
Me, I"m a puny guy, so I should be using maybe 11.5, but 12.5 is OK.

drakulie
02-10-2009, 09:27 AM
Better technique = more racquet head speed.

Matt

Yes.

NO. I can swing my 12 oz Fischer M pro much faster than a 9.5 oz. OS racquet.

You have to take into account the balance of the racquet as well.

yes.

150mph_
02-10-2009, 09:28 AM
NOT saying you should use heavy rackets...;
TomasMuster was reputed to weigh his rackets to almost 14 oz strung!
Me, I"m a puny guy, so I should be using maybe 11.5, but 12.5 is OK.

how small is puny?
mini-me?

LeeD
02-10-2009, 09:44 AM
Puny...
Well, start of my tennis season, November, I was 5'11" and 138 lbs.
Not short, but kinda light, ya dink :):)

150mph_
02-10-2009, 09:48 AM
Puny...
Well, start of my tennis season, November, I was 5'11" and 138 lbs.
Not short, but kinda light, ya dink :):)

are you anorexic??
im 5'7 and 150 and i want to be around 160lbs to look strong so i play with shirt off in the summer...
5'11 you need a good 50lbs of good weight packed on...
i'd start with mcdonalds and some intense weight training

LeeD
02-10-2009, 02:34 PM
Funny ding....
I eat over 300 breakfasts at McED's each year.
I eat over 100 dinners at McE D's each year.:shock::shock:

150mph_
02-10-2009, 04:24 PM
Funny ding....
I eat over 300 breakfasts at McED's each year.
I eat over 100 dinners at McE D's each year.:shock::shock:

depends on what ya get at mickey d's...
if you get the salad vs. the large #1 meal with chicken nuggets and an ice cream sundaw then obviously you ARE DOING IT WRONG
i just had 3 burgers and 2 large fries and a large coke at burger king... its so good... and after eating i sleep then i have to much energy to play tennis lol

LeeD
02-10-2009, 04:30 PM
Ha ha...
I only eat burgers, in multiples.
NEVER any salads, ever.
Typical breakfast, steak bagel, hashbrowns, one sausage burrito, one McMuffin, one coffee (3 cups), and one newspaper.

150mph_
02-10-2009, 04:38 PM
Ha ha...
I only eat burgers, in multiples.
NEVER any salads, ever.
Typical breakfast, steak bagel, hashbrowns, one sausage burrito, one McMuffin, one coffee (3 cups), and one newspaper.

so you got one of those medical conditions that prevents you from gaining weight?

LeeD
02-10-2009, 04:42 PM
No medical condition...
You know how I always brag about what a great athlete I am :):):)
Most days, I ride a bike like maybe an easy 10 miles, play at least 5 sets of doubs, hit for 45 minutes, then go windsurfing for 2-3 hours in the spring/summer/fall.
When I play less than 3 sets of tennis, I don't count it as a tennis day.
Gotta stay somewhat active, or I might stay planted in place..

150mph_
02-10-2009, 04:47 PM
No medical condition...
You know how I always brag about what a great athlete I am
Most days, I ride a bike like maybe an easy 10 miles, play at least 5 sets of doubs, hit for 45 minutes, then go windsurfing for 2-3 hours in the spring/summer/fall.
When I play less than 3 sets of tennis, I don't count it as a tennis day.
Gotta stay somewhat active, or I might stay planted in place..
...
you realized that 5'11 and 135 isnt really what they call ... attractive to the general audience...
i'd gain 50lbs if i were you... imho...:)

yep ... i'm shallow :oops:
but i also like to look good

LeeD
02-10-2009, 04:51 PM
Funny ding....
If you read my post about my original weight most Novembers !!!!
It's now Feb someding, I don't work, so don't know.....
Right at 157 lbs. today earlier........:):)

150mph_
02-10-2009, 04:52 PM
Funny ding....
If you read my post about my original weight most Novembers !!!!
It's now Feb someding, I don't work, so don't know.....
Right at 157 lbs. today earlier........:):)

why do you type funny
:confused:

LeeD
02-10-2009, 04:59 PM
I was a 4A surfer in California for 10 years, so ducked school most PM's and some AM's. That's highschool AND college.
Had some cutiepie friends in attendance office to scrub my absentees :):)
Hence, no home, no job, no $$$$, no computer :twisted:

150mph_
02-10-2009, 05:13 PM
I was a 4A surfer in California for 10 years, so ducked school most PM's and some AM's. That's highschool AND college.
Had some cutiepie friends in attendance office to scrub my absentees :):)
Hence, no home, no job, no $$$$, no computer :twisted:

that has nothing to do with why you type weird :confused:

LeeD
02-11-2009, 06:59 AM
Whatever....
No classes, no school, little attention, all equal bad typing skills.
Dat's life, you live it only ONE time, so make the most out of it.

Lotto
02-11-2009, 07:32 AM
If your referring to groundstrokes, the heavier racquet will get you more racquet head speed as long as you contact far out in front. (Straight arm). If you don't hit straight arm, then a heavy racquet is generally not a good idea.

good luck


This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.



And to the OP, it's not about racquet head speed. If you keep worrying about racquet head speed it will get you nowhere. It's not about swinging as fast or as hard as you can it's about correct technique. For the forehand:

1. Get a full body turn and coil.

2. Establish a good base in the legs

3. Nice, rhythmic loop for the backswing after the unit turn, this will help with timing.

4.Establish a hitting structure i.e. double bend or straight arm.

5. Lower the strucutre.

6. Rotate the torso.

7. Get "in the slot" with the buttcap of the racquet pointing fowards, the strings facing the side, perpendicular to the baseline.

8. "Pull" the racquet to the ball and "Lift" to keep the hitting structure in place.

9. Drive or push through the ball using the entire arm and shoulder while also rotating into it,.

10. Finish over the opposite shoulder or in a windshield wiper motion.


I must credit Jeff Counts for some of this because this is where I basically learned all about technique.


Stop worrying about racquet head speed and racquets, start focusing on technique, then you can play with whichever racquet you desire. I totally recommend John Yandell's Tennis Player www.tennisplayer.net (http://www.tennisplayer.net) , Jeff Counts hi-tech tennis, www.hi-techtennis.com (http://www.hi-techtennis.com) and also a good one is www.fuzzyyellowballs.com (http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com)

Hi-tech tennis is AMAZING for technique imo. Tennis Player is UNREAL for EVERYTHING tennis related and Fuzzy Yellow Balls is good for teaching the basics. Alot of people love that site.

Cheers.

Djokovicfan4life
02-11-2009, 07:40 AM
...
you realized that 5'11 and 135 isnt really what they call ... attractive to the general audience...
i'd gain 50lbs if i were you... imho...:)

yep ... i'm shallow :oops:
but i also like to look good

Yeah, I remember when I weighed around that much; I almost went into a diabetic coma.

Djokovicfan4life
02-11-2009, 07:45 AM
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.



And to the OP, it's not about racquet head speed. If you keep worrying about racquet head speed it will get you nowhere. It's not about swinging as fast or as hard as you can it's about correct technique. For the forehand:

1. Get a full body turn and coil.

2. Establish a good base in the legs

3. Nice, rhythmic loop for the backswing after the unit turn, this will help with timing.

4.Establish a hitting structure i.e. double bend or straight arm.

5. Lower the strucutre.

6. Rotate the torso.

7. Get "in the slot" with the buttcap of the racquet pointing fowards, the strings facing the side, perpendicular to the baseline.

8. "Pull" the racquet to the ball and "Lift" to keep the hitting structure in place.

9. Drive or push through the ball using the entire arm and shoulder while also rotating into it,.

10. Finish over the opposite shoulder or in a windshield wiper motion.


I must credit Jeff Counts for some of this because this is where I basically learned all about technique.


Stop worrying about racquet head speed and racquets, start focusing on technique, then you can play with whichever racquet you desire. I totally recommend John Yandell's Tennis Player www.tennisplayer.net (http://www.tennisplayer.net) , Jeff Counts hi-tech tennis, www.hi-techtennis.com (http://www.hi-techtennis.com) and also a good one is www.fuzzyyellowballs.com (http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com)

Hi-tech tennis is AMAZING for technique imo. Tennis Player is UNREAL for EVERYTHING tennis related and Fuzzy Yellow Balls is good for teaching the basics. Alot of people love that site.

Cheers.

Good stuff. If I may add:

Lead with the elbow on the back-swing; don't take the racquet back first like some players who get hung up on the buttcap pointing towards the ball. This will happen naturally, provided that you have solid technique and grip the racquet loosely.

Regarding the loop back-swing: drop the racquet down using the natural forces of gravity instead of the arm; this helps acceleration.

Matt

Lotto
02-11-2009, 07:59 AM
Good stuff. If I may add:

Lead with the elbow on the back-swing; don't take the racquet back first like some players who get hung up on the buttcap pointing towards the ball. This will happen naturally, provided that you have solid technique and grip the racquet loosely.

Regarding the loop back-swing: drop the racquet down using the natural forces of gravity instead of the arm; this helps acceleration.

Matt


Someone's been studying from Hi-tech tennis anyway lol. Or somewhere else.

Djokovicfan4life
02-11-2009, 08:00 AM
Someone's been studying from Hi-tech tennis anyway lol. Or somewhere else.

http://www.virtualtennisacademy.com

Hitechtennis is good though; wonder if my subscriptions up yet or not.

Lotto
02-11-2009, 08:15 AM
http://www.virtualtennisacademy.com

Hitechtennis is good though; wonder if my subscriptions up yet or not.


I had a look at that place when you posted it in another thread. Talk about expensive!!

Thirteen
02-11-2009, 01:45 PM
Thanks guys, as far as I'm concerned, my question still stands, as I have no questions on my forehand technique. It's not perfect, but it doesn't warrant a lesson at this time.

LeeD
02-11-2009, 01:53 PM
So what really is your question?
Nobody can tell you which new racket is good for you, or whether your demos will be better than your currents.....
You look at the top 100 pro players, and there's at least 30 different rackets used amongst them. Probably closer to 70 different if you actually weighed and balanced them all.

Djokovicfan4life
02-11-2009, 02:03 PM
I had a look at that place when you posted it in another thread. Talk about expensive!!
Talk about informative. I've learned more about tennis from that site then through everything else combined.

user92626
02-11-2009, 03:20 PM
Thanks guys, as far as I'm concerned, my question still stands, as I have no questions on my forehand technique. It's not perfect, but it doesn't warrant a lesson at this time.

Your question "Lighter racket = more racket head speed?" is answered at least once.

My own answer is also basically "not necessary". Racket head speed ties directly into techniques which partly tie to equipment. A light racket (to you) always makes it a chore for you to assert power into the stroke. A heavy racket would impart more momentum, but only if you have the technique to start it.


So in short if your fh technique is mature, get the heaviest racket that it can handle, like Fed's tiny face, 12+ oz one?

hellonewbie
02-11-2009, 10:31 PM
Thanks guys, as far as I'm concerned, my question still stands, as I have no questions on my forehand technique. It's not perfect, but it doesn't warrant a lesson at this time.

Answer to your question is "Yes."