PDA

View Full Version : another rules question


randomname
02-11-2009, 07:26 AM
An interesting situation came up the other day while I was watching a college girls varsity match. one player hit a ball that was a winner but the other girl called it out. The girl who hit the winner began to walk to the baseline but before she started her next service motion, she turned and asked the umpire if the ball was in or out and the umpire said that the ball was in but she waited too long to ask. Now, I thought the umpire was supposed to over rule any bad calls immediately (they always have when I've played). If the umpire was right that has to be the most asinine rule I've ever heard, who cares if the player questions it or not, if the umpire sees a bad call they should over-rule. Was the umpire right in this situation?

Romeo
02-11-2009, 08:17 AM
In college tennis the chair or roving umpire calls foot faults, not ups (double bounces), invasions and touches. They do not make line calls and can not over rule a bad line call unless asked.

woodrow1029
02-11-2009, 08:36 AM
Romeo is correct. College tennis is the only time where the umpire is not allowed to overrule until verbally appealed by the players.

Here are the ITA overrule rules in the Friend at Court.

17. Solo chair umpire shall not overrule call unless player immediately
appeals for overrule. A solo chair umpire shall not overrule a
call unless it is challenged verbally at that moment (not at the
end of the point) by the opposing player. The solo chair umpire
shall not prompt the request for an appeal.
18. Overrules by certified roving umpires. If appealed to, a certified
roving umpire may overrule a call if he is on that court or if he directly
observed the call.
19. Player who has been overruled twice shall thereafter be penalized
under the Point Penalty System. If the solo chair umpire and roving
umpires have overruled a player or doubles team twice, the
umpire shall penalize each subsequent overrule under the ITA
Point Penalty System. The failure to have an appeal upheld is
not treated as an overrule.

Rob_C
02-11-2009, 09:19 AM
An interesting situation came up the other day while I was watching a college girls varsity match. one player hit a ball that was a winner but the other girl called it out. The girl who hit the winner began to walk to the baseline but before she started her next service motion, she turned and asked the umpire if the ball was in or out and the umpire said that the ball was in but she waited too long to ask. Now, I thought the umpire was supposed to over rule any bad calls immediately (they always have when I've played). If the umpire was right that has to be the most asinine rule I've ever heard, who cares if the player questions it or not, if the umpire sees a bad call they should over-rule. Was the umpire right in this situation?

I think that umpire should have overruled, the next point hadnt started yet. Can you elaborate on approx how long the girl waited. It sounds like only a few secs to me.

woodrow1029
02-11-2009, 09:32 AM
I think that umpire should have overruled, the next point hadnt started yet. Can you elaborate on approx how long the girl waited. It sounds like only a few secs to me.
From the OP first post, it doesn't sound like it was only a few seconds. It sounded like it was called out, she went back to the baseline and then asked just before getting ready to serve the next point.

It's just like clay court or hawkeye in pro tennis. Once you take your focus off of that call, it's too late. The request pretty much needs to be immediate.

jefferson
02-11-2009, 09:32 AM
Same rule in high school, in NY at least. They will not make a call unless questioned. They are there to call foot faults, and generally just keep everyone "honest." No one that I know likes to be overruled, never mind in front of their peers.

randomname
02-11-2009, 09:55 AM
No one that I know likes to be overruled, never mind in front of their peers.

thats strange, because everyone I know likes it even less when they get cheated out of points. There is absolutely no logic behind this rule, the fact that the umpire can over rule in ANY situation means that they have the last say on if the ball was in or not, so why should they not be obligated to correct any bad call they see? theres also no real reason to force people to question the call immedietely, they do that in pro tennis so that players cant get signals on if they should challenge or not, it doesnt matter in college because you can question every line call if you felt like it.

woodrow1029
02-11-2009, 10:05 AM
thats strange, because everyone I know likes it even less when they get cheated out of points. There is absolutely no logic behind this rule, the fact that the umpire can over rule in ANY situation means that they have the last say on if the ball was in or not, so why should they not be obligated to correct any bad call they see? theres also no real reason to force people to question the call immedietely, they do that in pro tennis so that players cant get signals on if they should challenge or not, it doesnt matter in college because you can question every line call if you felt like it.
Excessive unreasonable queries on opponent's line calls can be penalized under the point penalty system.

Again from the Friend at Court.

20. Excessive appeals for the apparent sake of disrupting play. A solo
chair umpire shall caution any player making excessive appeals
for the apparent sake of disrupting play. Thereafter, if the
solo chair umpire determines that the player is making appeals
for the apparent sake of disrupting play, he may penalize the
player under the ITA Point Penalty System.

It does need to be questioned immediately. The players in college also are not allowed to consult with their coach or team members before questioning a call.

jefferson
02-11-2009, 10:18 AM
thats strange, because everyone I know likes it even less when they get cheated out of points. There is absolutely no logic behind this rule, the fact that the umpire can over rule in ANY situation means that they have the last say on if the ball was in or not, so why should they not be obligated to correct any bad call they see? theres also no real reason to force people to question the call immedietely, they do that in pro tennis so that players cant get signals on if they should challenge or not, it doesnt matter in college because you can question every line call if you felt like it.

I think you might have misunderstood me or just I left out some important info. In high school there are only roving officials during the end of season tournaments. We play our whole 16 match season without an official. Totally on the honor system. So the cheaters can get away with it. I know this sounds ridiculous but that it how it is. Players only recourse when they feel that they are being cheated is to ask for a non partial line judge. (Could be a parent or bus driver!) So what I was saying is that I feel that the officials biggest role in being there is just to keep the cheaters "honest." When they normally would cheat when they needed the point. Sad but true, By no way am I condoning this. Just to make that clear, I am just pointing out our situation as High School coaches.

JLyon
02-11-2009, 01:20 PM
thats strange, because everyone I know likes it even less when they get cheated out of points. There is absolutely no logic behind this rule, the fact that the umpire can over rule in ANY situation means that they have the last say on if the ball was in or not, so why should they not be obligated to correct any bad call they see? theres also no real reason to force people to question the call immedietely, they do that in pro tennis so that players cant get signals on if they should challenge or not, it doesnt matter in college because you can question every line call if you felt like it.
This is not a rule by USTA, this is an ITA Rule, which was asked for by the College Coaches and not Umpires/Officials. You want to see a College Coach go ballistic, wait for an ITA official to make an overrule without a verbal request.
ITA is a whole other animal due to the rules asked for and put in place by the Coaches.