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Djokovicfan4life
02-14-2009, 08:15 PM
Seriously, this rivals Federer's 2nd serve aces, IMO. And on pretty fast grass as well. How the crap does one do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayE1q-3v_tA

coonio
02-14-2009, 08:50 PM
That's why I get depressed sometimes watching men's tennis on tv. They're just too good, you can't really identify with it sometimes (like the verdasco/nadal match at oz, so ridiculous!).

Ambivalent
02-15-2009, 01:57 AM
You have to remember this is grass so he most likely hit a little dip in the court.

Tsonga nDance
02-15-2009, 04:32 AM
IDK luck? or maybe the ball was bounced soo much that it decided to just bounce away?

zacinnc78
02-15-2009, 04:42 AM
just goes to show you that grass is now green clay lol

Djokovicfan4life
02-15-2009, 07:03 AM
just goes to show you that grass is now green clay lol

That's the thing though. This grass is still pretty fast, as the shorter rallies clearly demonstrated.

fuzz nation
02-15-2009, 07:30 AM
He's serving with some great kick spin, but he's also getting the benefit of the grass. That stuff can do evil things to a ball that's already spun up to make a returner miserable.

When I first learned how to kick a serve when I was a kid playing on grass, I hit one to a girl in a doubles match and the thing exploded straight up over her head. She didn't even need to move to get out of the way - it went right over the top of her head by almost a foot. Not bragging too much here because she was a little on the short side, but there's really no predicting what that surface will do to a funky ball from one shot to the next. Since the pros can do a little more of everything with their shots, their oddball bounces on grass can make you wonder if the court is haunted or something.

Mansewerz
02-15-2009, 07:41 AM
Wow, that was ridiculous!

mixertefera
02-15-2009, 08:20 AM
now he needs to put that in a bottle and bring it to the FO

SmAsH999
02-15-2009, 01:16 PM
that just isn't right, sort of like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM1P2ej4YtY

oneguy21
02-15-2009, 01:34 PM
Ball must have had a bad bounce.

BobFL
02-15-2009, 01:51 PM
that just isn't right, sort of like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM1P2ej4YtY

This is american twist serve. Nole served classic wide kicker...

tennisfreak15347
02-15-2009, 01:59 PM
Ball must have had a bad bounce.

*delete* double post

tennisfreak15347
02-15-2009, 02:00 PM
Ball must have had a bad bounce.

no, the ball probably landed on a lady bug in the grass, which must have accented the ball to make a rediculously crazy bounce. :)

LeeD
02-16-2009, 10:22 AM
Are you guys forgetting the PLACEMENT of that bad boy!
Well inside the service line, right at the side line.
That serve should land right there for any of us! Not me, I'm left handed, so it'd be out the duece court.
Seems eye heights, not abnormal, but extremely well placed, is all.

Sublime
02-16-2009, 10:47 AM
^^^^
I agree... looks like he had about 3" of net clearance to hit that. There's no way he intended to do that. If you aim for 3" of net clearance on your second serve, you'll double fault 10 times for every one of these aces... but you'll likely forget about the 10 faults a day later and remember a serve like this forever... so maybe it's a good strategy :)

drgnpride
02-16-2009, 10:55 AM
that just isn't right, sort of like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM1P2ej4YtY


or see what happens if you play for the second serve kicker too far to the backhand side?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUsJTozjd4c&feature=related

<3tennis!!!
02-16-2009, 02:27 PM
feds serve vs keifer was alot better imo

<3tennis!!!
02-16-2009, 02:33 PM
or see what happens if you play for the second serve kicker too far to the backhand side?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUsJTozjd4c&feature=related
LOL @ commentator: ho ho ho, wat a serve:twisted:

taz23
02-16-2009, 11:00 PM
amazing videos! I've always wanted to have a true kick serve as a second serve. I have a solid first serve that I can hit flat or with slice and I'm happy about it. But when I have to hit a second serve I can't seem to get both spin and pace on the ball. I use the same motion as my first serve, with the toss a little farther back, then i bend the knees and back(hurts) and I hit up into the ball. It has tons of spin on it, but it moves very slowly.

Any ideas on how i can get a respectable second serve. I'm not hoping for something super fast, but something in the high 80s would be nice.

Thanks in advance

tennisdad65
02-17-2009, 06:36 AM
Any ideas on how i can get a respectable second serve. I'm not hoping for something super fast, but something in the high 80s would be nice.

practice, practice, practice... BUT make sure to change your mechanics so that the back does not hurt. You can have minimal back stress even with a (twist) kick serve. For me, a relatively wide closed stance platform, good front knee bend and shoulder rotation, is key to not using my back on the kick. Most important for me is getting the hitting shoulder down real low in the trophy position.

Djokovicfan4life
02-17-2009, 07:30 AM
amazing videos! I've always wanted to have a true kick serve as a second serve. I have a solid first serve that I can hit flat or with slice and I'm happy about it. But when I have to hit a second serve I can't seem to get both spin and pace on the ball. I use the same motion as my first serve, with the toss a little farther back, then i bend the knees and back(hurts) and I hit up into the ball. It has tons of spin on it, but it moves very slowly.

Any ideas on how i can get a respectable second serve. I'm not hoping for something super fast, but something in the high 80s would be nice.

Thanks in advance

High 80s would pass for a second serve on the pro tour. Gotta be realistic with yourself, you know.

taz23
02-17-2009, 08:38 AM
Djokovicfan4life thanks for the tip. I didn't know that high 80s was considered pro level. Any ideas on what a more realistic goal would be?

If it helps some background info about me I'm 6'0 and 245 lbs, and a year ago while i was still at school I had my first serve radared and the highest i hit was 123. Usually i got in at 110-115. I'm not a very good player in general, just w/e i had time and no one to play with i would go out and drill my serve for an hour or so. I use the platform stance, tried the pinpoint but it felt awkward to me so i went back to what i know. But like I said earlier i just can't get good pace and spin on the second serve at the same time.

Sublime
02-17-2009, 09:20 AM
I use the same motion as my first serve, with the toss a little farther back, then i bend the knees and back(hurts) and I hit up into the ball. It has tons of spin on it, but it moves very slowly.

I'm guessing what you're doing is keeping your shoulders perpendicular to the baseline, bending your knees, and arching your back. When you "uncoil" from that position all your energy (from legs and back) is going to go straight up into the air... giving you tons of topspin, but only the force that your shoulders can muster will drive the ball into the court.

Instead rotate your shoulders and hips more so that your shoulders are pointing at the net post (opponent can see your back) while you bend your knees. Now because of how you've rotated you don't arch your back to get back to the ball, you push your hip out. Kind of turning yourself into a big bow from a bow and arrow. Now when you uncoil you'll have angular velocity from your hip and shoulder turn, upward force from your legs, and power into the court from unbowing... and no back pain. You're sides might hurt as you build up your obliques (I think that's the right muscle name, I'm no bodybuilder... the ones next to your abs).

pushing_wins
02-17-2009, 11:51 AM
how bout kick serves that bounces over the back fence, a proper fence

have anyone ever witness one of those

LeeD
02-17-2009, 12:15 PM
Yeah, DJ's got it....
A true PRO level second serve might hit the 80's, if the guy serves first serves at around 120 or so. Some pros can hit fast second serves, but most stay in the '80s.
The reason is... not only do you NEED to get the second in, but it needs to be a huge change from the first, so the returner doesn't get dialed.
At my barely adaquate level, a really slow second serve that is placed well, bounces high, is varied, is much better than a solid 115 first serve anytime.
Now if I can hit my first serves in the 130's, that would be a different story.

Djokovicfan4life
02-17-2009, 12:39 PM
Djokovicfan4life thanks for the tip. I didn't know that high 80s was considered pro level. Any ideas on what a more realistic goal would be?

If it helps some background info about me I'm 6'0 and 245 lbs, and a year ago while i was still at school I had my first serve radared and the highest i hit was 123. Usually i got in at 110-115. I'm not a very good player in general, just w/e i had time and no one to play with i would go out and drill my serve for an hour or so. I use the platform stance, tried the pinpoint but it felt awkward to me so i went back to what i know. But like I said earlier i just can't get good pace and spin on the second serve at the same time.

Well, the sky's the limit as far as I'm concerned. All I meant in that post was that your second serve will only be as good as the amount of work you are willing to put into it. You may develop a Djokovic/Gulbis/Lbubicic/Isner-esque second serve that tops out in the one teen range. Just be prepared to practice it like a mad man to achieve this level.

It's never fun to work at a weakness in our game. What IS fun is when it becomes a strength due to putting in the hard yards necessary to conquer that weakness.

Matt