Make the Call AND Sell Your Call!

[Camilio Pascual]

30 years ago, I had a disastrous short lived experience at attempting to become a baseball umpire. I did learn some things from it. I've seen many posts here where people are vague about making calls or what call was made or what the rules are. The most recent being the double bounce thread.
I suggest you make calls promptly and emphatically. And read the rules and The Code. Have a copy in your bag in a league or tournament match. Hesitancy and uncertainty is going to undermine the opponents' trust and confidence in you. Otherwise, they may think you are incompetent and a fool. Or worse, that you are a liar and cheating. When you make calls promptly and show a knowledge of the rules and procedures, people will trust you more and everybody will have a better time out there. If your partner undermines your lines calls that would go in your favour...immediately rule against yourself and do not take the point...even if YOU clearly saw it IN. Then have a talk with your partner over dinner and let him pay the check.

[Cypo]

Hey Camilio - how much can you get for a good call ? What if your opponent says he knows where he can get a discount, or two for the price of one ?

(SCR - you advice is of course excellent)

[Camilio Pascual]

Cypo - If I made better calls, I could have had a career of watching professional baseball up close, maybe even in the Majors. Oh, yeah, this is a tennis board. Majors meaning National and American Leagues, of course.

[twocents]

Camilio,
I posted this message a few days ago and it's killing me because of so many different answers. It seems to be along the same lines as yours and I'd really like to hear what your take on it is. It concerns "Your opponents" making the right call.
This point occured Sunday Night in a (4.0 Mixed match) third set 10 point tie breaker (7-8 them)which cost us our match and our team a loss.
I KNOW THIS IS MY FAULT FOR NOT WATCHING:
We were playing mixed doubles and I hit what appears to be a clear winner. I saw it bounce once far onto the court NEXT COURT to us and thought it was a winner. My partner and I put up our high fives. My opponent completely layed out ON THE COURT NEXT TO US and the shot came back!!! We never saw him hit it !!!
He himself said he didn't know if he got it or not. If he doesn't know, I don't think it's up to his partner who was on the other court (our court) to decide on the call. He was completely "cool" about the whole thing and said he honestly didn't know and nobody new what to do. Everyone watching was yelling different ideas. We were the last team out there and the match depended on us.
If we had watched the point completely and saw it as a double bounce we would have been arguing with his partner. What "we saw" vs what "she saw".
Who's call is it? The player who hit the ball didn't know if it was good or bad.
What happens then? Replay and take it over? I've received about 5 different answers.
By the way:
We ended up playing the point over and he smoked me down the middle with an ace. I guess justice prevailed but I'm not 100% sure. Somone said if He's not sure it's our point.
If interested,My post and replies are under "Who's call is it?"
I don't know what to call if this ever happens again and it probably will.
thanks.

[Kaptain Karl]

<snip> If your partner undermines your lines calls that would go in your favour...immediately rule against yourself and do not take the point...even if YOU clearly saw it IN. Then have a talk with your partner over dinner and let him pay the check.This is great advice -- especially about your partner picking up the check.

- KK

[predrag]

Camilio,
I posted this message a few days ago and it's killing me because of so many different answers. It seems to be along the same lines as yours and I'd really like to hear what your take on it is. It concerns "Your opponents" making the right call.
This point occured Sunday Night in a (4.0 Mixed match) third set 10 point tie breaker (7-8 them)which cost us our match and our team a loss.
I KNOW THIS IS MY FAULT FOR NOT WATCHING:
We were playing mixed doubles and I hit what appears to be a clear winner. I saw it bounce once far onto the court NEXT COURT to us and thought it was a winner. My partner and I put up our high fives. My opponent completely layed out ON THE COURT NEXT TO US and the shot came back!!! We never saw him hit it !!!
He himself said he didn't know if he got it or not. If he doesn't know, I don't think it's up to his partner who was on the other court (our court) to decide on the call. He was completely "cool" about the whole thing and said he honestly didn't know and nobody new what to do. Everyone watching was yelling different ideas. We were the last team out there and the match depended on us.
If we had watched the point completely and saw it as a double bounce we would have been arguing with his partner. What "we saw" vs what "she saw".
Who's call is it? The player who hit the ball didn't know if it was good or bad.
What happens then? Replay and take it over? I've received about 5 different answers.
By the way:
We ended up playing the point over and he smoked me down the middle with an ace. I guess justice prevailed but I'm not 100% sure. Somone said if He's not sure it's our point.
If interested,My post and replies are under "Who's call is it?"
I don't know what to call if this ever happens again and it probably will.
thanks.


I am not Camilio, but I will throw in my 2c

I think that this situation is very clear.
There is only one person who knows (or so she thinks) what happend.
And she said it was not double bounce.
Only if she was not sure, a replay would be in order.

Regards, Predrag

[ohplease]

I'm pretty sure the code says that if there's any doubt at all - the ball is assumed to be good. In other words, it ain't a negotiation. There are no "do-overs." If you're not sure, if you didn't see it, if you and your partner disagree - the ball is in.

Actually, re-reading twocent's story - I still think the "assume it's good unless positive it's not" rule of thumb still applies. Had you been looking and actually seen a double bounce, then it's your point. Otherwise, it's theirs.

[Camilio Pascual]

Look at #20 in The Code. The opposing player did not make a call about a double bounce. #11 discusses requesting an opponent's help. But, this is in the midst of rules about lines calls and the opponent failed to affirm that there had been 2 bounces. #5 says players make the calls on their own side of the net. If this was a lines call, the indefinite answer would have made the ball good. I'm not so sure this applies to the double bounce. But, what Predag said certainly is in the spirit of The Code. My inclination would be to say there was no call and no effective help on the call when the opponent was asked, so the return on the possible double bounce was good.
I'm not convinced by the turning around because the ball was impossible to get to bit. People have done that to me on balls I have gotten to and vice versa. Maybe the lesson here is to not give up on any point until it is actually over. This is a toughie, maybe somebody wants to submit this to "TENNIS" magazine?
Sorry, I guess this is your 6th different answer.

[twocents]

THANKS FOR REPLYING EVERYONE.
The only problem I have with this is: If I'm the guy layed out on the court next to us I'm the one who knows if it's a double bounce or not (even though I'm watching the ball) not my partner on the court next to me. We felt his partner had ripped us on a couple calls already. She would have called it good if it bounced 4 times. According to this post YOU should make the call ands stick to it. It seems He should have made the call one way or the other and stuck with it. HE swears HE didn't know if HE got it.
I guess Justice Prevailed.
On the very next point he serves a 100 mph ace down the middle on me !!!
I didn't have any problem returning his serve 60 to 70 mph serve all night.
It must have been some kind of "Devine Intervention" telling me I screwed up.
Next time I watch until it's over.

[predrag]

THANKS FOR REPLYING EVERYONE.
The only problem I have with this is: If I'm the guy layed out on the court next to us I'm the one who knows if it's a double bounce or not (even though I'm watching the ball) not my partner on the court next to me. We felt his partner had ripped us on a couple calls already. She would have called it good if it bounced 4 times. According to this post YOU should make the call ands stick to it. It seems He should have made the call one way or the other and stuck with it. HE swears HE didn't know if HE got it.

[snip]

You cannot NOT accept somebody's call because he/she made bad calls before.

You can QUESTION (politely, of course) somebody's call IF YOU SAW IT differently.

I think you might be missing a point of the Code.

Get yourself a copy of the Code and read it.

The best way is to accept whatever your opponent calls and if you think that
you got cheated, play better so it does not matter.

Regards, Predrag