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View Full Version : Do pros make money after the tour?


joehight
03-01-2005, 11:50 AM
The thread on spin and power by the pros had some discussion on what ranking had to be achieved in order to make a living. That got me to thinking. People make a living in tennis in ways other than being on the pro tour, e.g., via working for a tennis association, coaching tennis, in the pros or at college tennis, tennis instruction, running tennis camps, owning and running a tennis shop, being a club, resort, or camp pro, stringing tennis racquets, etc.

Here's my question. Does a stint on the pro tour enhance the chances of making a living in tennis via these other avenues? I can imagine it does. Especially if one has been ranked say in the top 100 in your home country say, or if one has played at Wimbledon, or at the US Open, in either singles or doubles.

Next question. Could making a living from tennis in these other ways be more fun and/or earn you more money than the average career of an average college graduate? If so, maybe it's not so dumb to for someone with some tennis talent to try the pro tour rather than college.

Anybody know anything specific about these questions (like how much can you make teaching tennis, or being a pro at a resort)? How about a guess?

camelF4i
03-01-2005, 12:34 PM
Yeh, I've always wondered how much top 100 pros will be paid to work as a tennis instructor or coach at a tennis club once their career as a pro player is over. Maybe at the 100k per year range?

predrag
03-01-2005, 12:42 PM
Yeh, I've always wondered how much top 100 pros will be paid to work as a tennis instructor or coach at a tennis club once their career as a pro player is over. Maybe at the 100k per year range?

Ex- Top 100 pro can easily be charging 100/hr for the instruction, for the
individual lesson. If he is working with more people in the same time it
could go almost double.
Smart pro could easily be in the 200K range, for 5-6 hours on the court, if he
really wanted/needed money.

Regards, Predrag

nkhera1
03-01-2005, 04:13 PM
Ex- Top 100 pro can easily be charging 100/hr for the instruction, for the
individual lesson. If he is working with more people in the same time it
could go almost double.
Smart pro could easily be in the 200K range, for 5-6 hours on the court, if he
really wanted/needed money.

Regards, Predrag

I think $100 is a little too extreme and what about players that have an unorthodox approach. I don't think all players become coaches.

Marius_Hancu
03-01-2005, 05:21 PM
Ex- Top 100 pro can easily be charging 100/hr for the instruction, for the
individual lesson. If he is working with more people in the same time it
could go almost double.
Smart pro could easily be in the 200K range, for 5-6 hours on the court, if he
really wanted/needed money.
They can charge what they want. Question is, do they have enough customers outside of Florida and CA at these rates?
I hope they have.

Marius_Hancu
03-01-2005, 05:25 PM
I don't think that the best paid coaches are former pros. Look at NB and others. I think there are other qualities involved there, including and perhaps most important, marketing yourself.

predrag
03-02-2005, 07:04 AM
I think $100 is a little too extreme and what about players that have an unorthodox approach. I don't think all players become coaches.

Read the original question.

There is a guy here in the NorthWestern suburbs of Chicago that charges
$140 per hour.
He is associated with the club, and I have seen him giving lessons.
And I talked to person who payed for lessons for his kids.

There is another Korean heritage gentleman here that was in the top 200,
that charges $150. This guy I have never met, only heard about him.

So, in conclusion, $100 is little conservative figure.

Regards, Predrag

predrag
03-02-2005, 07:06 AM
They can charge what they want. Question is, do they have enough customers outside of Florida and CA at these rates?
I hope they have.

I can see that you are sceptical, but the answer is, Yes.
They do have enough customers outside of Florida and CA.
I do not know about outside of Illinois, though :):)

Regards, Predrag

predrag
03-02-2005, 07:09 AM
I don't think that the best paid coaches are former pros. Look at NB and others. I think there are other qualities involved there, including and perhaps most important, marketing yourself.

Do you think that best paid coaches charge $100/hour?
MAN!
Rumor is that NB charges $1500/hr.

Lansdrop charges 1000 for the video analysis.
On the other hand, I heard that he charges lowly $140 for his lessons.
That sounds kinda low.


Regards, Predrag

Mike Cottrill
03-02-2005, 08:05 AM
Interesting numbers floating around on rates. Like all businesses, I it depends on demand of the individual. I can think of some pros that were up in the rankings and not very nice to be around. Does not mater how good you are if people can not stand to be around you. I have a friend that spent a short time in the top 100. He has been ranked at the top of the USTA and ITF Adult/Seniors for years. He does well, but he is also a good salesman and real nice guy. I hear all these numbers, but he does not charge anywhere near that. Kinda nice, this allows the average person to afford lessons and gain knowledge from pro. Does the pro get all of that 100-200/hr or does club get most of it? There are quite of few pros that have a college education, do not underestimate the value there.

predrag
03-02-2005, 08:08 AM
Interesting numbers floating around on rates. Like all businesses, I it depends on demand of the individual. I can think of some pros that were up in the rankings and not very nice to be around. Does not mater how good you are if people can not stand to be around you. I have a friend that spent a short time in the top 100. He has been ranked at the top of the USTA and ITF Adult/Seniors for years. He does well, but he is also a good salesman and real nice guy. I hear all these numbers, but he does not charge anywhere near that. Kinda nice, this allows the average person to afford lessons and gain knowledge from pro. Does the pro get all of that 100-200/hr or does club get most of it? There are quite of few pros that have a college education, do not underestimate the value there.

Well, you have to be able to sell your wisdom, definitely.
And not everybody is the same.
However, I am trying to rely on facts as much as I can.

Regards, Predrag

flatserve
03-02-2005, 10:03 AM
In response to PREDRAG who mentioned the two pros in the Chicago area, I am also a teaching pro in the very same area. The first pro he mentioned is Michael Kaspy who has to charge uo tp $140 per hour because he teaches on an indoor court at his home, so he has a very expensive heating and lighting cost to cover.

The Korean pro Bong-Soo Kim charges from $80 to $100 per hour, but during the indoor season, he pays about $32 per hour for the court. When he quotes anything higher than that, he does not want to teach. He does not make a living on the court, as he works in his family business. He only teaches a few hours per week which includes working with a Korean league team.

For someone looking to make a living teaching tennis, Florida is worst place to be. There are literally guys there who go to the sporting goods store, buy a case of balls, then solicit business. There are so many pros there, last summer, lessons could easily have been had for $30 for two hours. Only the marquee names can charge more. Here in the Chicago market, there are quite a few guys who quit the tour then tried to make a living in Florida.

Rabbit
03-02-2005, 10:11 AM
They also make money by working for racket companies. Gene Mayer works for Prince, he goes around the country putting on clinics to help promote sales. Head has some former Aussies working for them as well.

predrag
03-02-2005, 10:17 AM
In response to PREDRAG who mentioned the two pros in the Chicago area, I am also a teaching pro in the very same area. The first pro he mentioned is Michael Kaspy who has to charge uo tp $140 per hour because he teaches on an indoor court at his home, so he has a very expensive heating and lighting cost to cover.

Nope, that is not the one. Name is Kim and the club is Lincolnshire.
Which just proves that high rates can be found over here.

I am curious about expensive heating and lightning.
Is that more expensive than in clubs?



The Korean pro Bong-Soo Kim charges from $80 to $100 per hour, but during the indoor season, he pays about $32 per hour for the court. When he quotes anything higher than that, he does not want to teach. He does not make a living on the court, as he works in his family business. He only teaches a few hours per week which includes working with a Korean league team.

I only heard about this guy and did not even know his name.
Could you clarify "When he quotes anything higher than that, he does not want to teach."


For someone looking to make a living teaching tennis, Florida is worst place to be. There are literally guys there who go to the sporting goods store, buy a case of balls, then solicit business. There are so many pros there, last summer, lessons could easily have been had for $30 for two hours. Only the marquee names can charge more. Here in the Chicago market, there are quite a few guys who quit the tour then tried to make a living in Florida.

Regards, Predrag

Marius_Hancu
03-02-2005, 10:28 AM
Do you think that best paid coaches charge $100/hour?
MAN!
Rumor is that NB charges $1500/hr.
I never said the best paid coaches charge $100/hr, just that on average, it might be difficult to get customers at that rate.
But guess Chicago is a rich city.
And I know about NB.

predrag
03-02-2005, 10:35 AM
I never said the best paid coaches charge $100/hr, just that on average, it might be difficult to get customers at that rate.
But guess Chicago is a rich city.
And I know about NB.

Well, price is dictated by the demand. If they couldn't find clients, they would
not be charging that much.

Since I lived in Toronto GTA for 7 years I know exactly what is the difference
between the T.O nad Chicago.
Actually, USA in general are just huge market, huge economy, huge everything.
In such market models that would have never worked otherwise are blooming.

Regards, Predrag

Docalex007
03-02-2005, 11:31 AM
who is NB?

joehight
03-02-2005, 11:34 AM
My original motivation for the question was whether or not making a living in tennis after the tour (after not having gone to college) was a reasonable career path to follow. It's true that only a very few of the good tennis juniors make it to the top 100 (or even top 200) or so in the pros, so those that fail and haven't got a college degree may find their earning power after tennis severely restricted, unless they can make a living in tennis after the pros that at least equalls if not surpasses what they might have earned if they had gone to college. To begin to answer that question one has to compare the average earnings of college graduates with the average earnings of former tennis pros.

We have a local ex-pro who teaches tennis and serves on local community tennis boards and associations. He is well sought after for private one-on-one tennis lessons (but I think he can still only charge slightly above the going rate of $50 per hour. He might get $80). His claim to fame - as it has been told to me - is that he once played Wimbledon doubles. May have even been in the finals, I'm not sure. But when his name is mentioned it usually is added that he played doubles at Wimbledon - I think it was in the late 60s. This makes him highly sought after. Not only can he charge more than some other teaching pros, he has the luxury of accepting students who will adjust to his time schedule, rather than the other way around.

Of course we all know of the teaching pros/coaches that make it in a big way in this career - the Bolleteri's, Bradens, Vandermeer, Stan Smith. They make megabucks, I assume. What about Tom Avery in Naples Florida? Make good money? A hell of a nice guy. I once called the 1 800 number to order one of his videos, and who do you think answered the phone. Tom Avery himself. And he proceeded to answer my questions regarding the backhand slice. Made me want to pay his tennis facility a visit. Still might do that.

Other than the money. Might be more fun to make a living at tennis compared to how the average college graduate earns a living.

Marius_Hancu
03-02-2005, 01:19 PM
who is NB?
Nick Bollettieri.

nkhera1
03-02-2005, 02:42 PM
Read the original question.

There is a guy here in the NorthWestern suburbs of Chicago that charges
$140 per hour.
He is associated with the club, and I have seen him giving lessons.
And I talked to person who payed for lessons for his kids.

There is another Korean heritage gentleman here that was in the top 200,
that charges $150. This guy I have never met, only heard about him.

So, in conclusion, $100 is little conservative figure.

Regards, Predrag

yeah but how many pros can charge that much and get a lot of people to come

Leon
03-02-2005, 06:51 PM
Hey.
I took three lessons from local club in CT. I paid $82 per hour and this pro didn't teach me anything, was waist of time and money. I got another pro (she is student in my uni), for $30 per hour, and what a diff. My game improved dramatically. I would say you can try to make money, but to keep your customers name is not enough, one wants to see his game improved.