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View Full Version : C-10 vs. Tour 10-g2


max
03-01-2005, 06:08 PM
I've seen a long and rambling post below, but has anyone put together a serious side-by-side comparison? Has anyone spent some quality time with each frame?

Rabbit
03-01-2005, 08:26 PM
Yep and I've got one Gen II for sale. :)

NoBadMojo
03-01-2005, 08:38 PM
Yep for me too but i'm keeping my Gen2's....i may have some Gen1's for sale however.

AndrewD
03-02-2005, 12:47 AM
So it all comes down to personal preference max. To the avowed C10 fan its 'close but no cigar' and perhaps a slightly similar opinion for the GenI and II faithful.
So Rabbit and Ed, how much you asking ? lol

Rabbit
03-02-2005, 06:40 AM
$125 shipped in the continental U.S. $125 + shipping to the land of Oz.

10s99
03-02-2005, 07:31 AM
i have 2 c10s for sale . . . email if interested.

wtwilkof@*****.com

*****= yahoo

NoBadMojo
03-02-2005, 08:42 AM
Andrew I'll email you on this.

Django
03-02-2005, 08:47 AM
Switched last week from the C-10 Pro to the Gen2 -- and couldn't be happier.

NoBadMojo
03-02-2005, 09:06 AM
Trying this one more time Max, even though I thought we adequately discusssed this in the long and rambling post below.
-The Gen2 swings easier than the C10. The C10 is more flexy than the Gen2 in the hoop, altho the Gen2 is also a flexy frame but in a more all around sort of way. Both are make your own power frames and great for all courters in that they support whatever shot you can think of very well. Both are headlight, with the C10 feeling a little more so to me. Both have most excellent touch and ball feel and are capable of producing copious amounts of spin if you know how to do that. Both have expansive sweetspots, but i would give a slight edge there to the C10 whose head seems to be all sweetspot..i sense multiple versions of the swetspot in the Gen2 which makes this frame more intriguing to me. the graphics on the Gen2 are really cool and modern and on the C10 alot more traditional. both frames play well with a variety of string types and tensions. The C10 is a graphite/kevlar layup and the Gen2 is garphite/fiberglass pure fibre technology. both are no gimmick, no frills, will support whatever you give them frames, and reward you really well for good stroke production. The C10 feels alittle more loosy goosey to me and less control and the Gen2 feels more precise. Power levels are about a wash for me....more headsped and spin for me because i can swing the Gen2 faster, but the C10 may hit a slightly heavier ball. i think they both play true to spec altho there is a disagreement around here as to the flexibilty of the two frames, and altho the beam width may be spec'd the same, the Gen2 beam feels a bit beefier to me especially in the throat...they just flex differently with the C10 being more of an old school flexy and the Gen2 beng an updated version of flexy..i view the Gen2 as evolution of the C10, but folks that are wanting a flexy head in the Gen2 like the C10 will be disappointed.

bobdstrategy
03-02-2005, 10:58 AM
I am a big fan of yours and wanted to ask you a question and I hope it's okay to ask on this thread. If not please excuse me as I am a newbie.

I have been playing the ProKennex 5G and like it fairly well but would like something that would give me a little more spin on my forehand as I keep improving and also would like a frame with a tad less swingweight. I have tried everything to improve the spin on this racquet with nothing working that well so I have decided to try another frame.

It really seems from the specs and your great reviews that that either the Tour 10 MP Gen II or Slaz Pro X-1 would be a good choice for me. Since you've played both, I wanted to ask if you thought one would be a better choice for me? My main criteria in order of importance are:

1. Improved Topspin
2. Good arm comfort...I have a little TE and forearm stiffness left over from my weight lifting days and need to be careful with that so if one of these is much more arm friendly than the other I would probably try it first.
3. Volley Quality
4. Sweet spot size...I am pretty good about hitting it but sometimes...
4. Slice backhand...I have a good slice backhand as well as a decent topspin one, however I use the slice more (for approaches and general defense)

My game is built around a western-SW forehand (fairly loopy and fast) and good volleys (for my age as I am 57).

Also, demoing racquets don't work that well for me because I seem to be very "string sensitive" and always the demo stings have really messed up any demoing I've tried in the past. So I will either get a new or used one and string it...and then resell if it doesn't do it. I did that before and it worked out pretty well. To get to the 5G I tried the Yonex 500 MP and Diablo MP. I didn't volley well with it or like the overall Yonex feel. Athough, I hit my forehand great with the 500. The Diablo didn't do it in any category for me.

Any thoughts you might have would be greatly appreciated. And thanks again for all your great posts. I have learned so much from you.

Best regards, Bob
PS: Also, your suggestion to go to 85 racquets for improving the game was outstanding in my opinion. Actually it's the only real dooable and practical option I have heard on this significant "controversy and problem". It didn't seem to get any response though? Man, I don't get it...if something isn't changed to help move the game back at least little toward more variety...well I won't pontificate on this further as I know that topic has been discussed at length on the boards.

Django
03-02-2005, 11:01 AM
Well said, NBM. I agree that the two sticks have a different type of flex, if that's possible. The upper hoop of the C-10 plays very loose and flexy which, to me, made it feel somewhat unpredictable and weak -- almost like a mis-hit at times. Over time, I did my best to strike the ball lower in the hoop, which effectively shrunk my sweet spot. The Gen2 offers an improvement over this with a hoop that plays firmer with "snappier" response. For someone who has played the C-10 for several years, the difference is very noticeable.

As far as balance goes, I gotta disagree respectfully w/ NBM -- now with a few more hits under my belt, the Gen2 is starting to feel more maneuverable, which I attribute to a slightly more headlight balance before. (Then again, it could be just slightly less weight.)

NoBadMojo
03-02-2005, 11:13 AM
django i said the Gen2 swings easier than the C10. you can't ever just seem to leave well enough alone can you? why cant that be good enough for you..i bet the balance of the two are pretty similar and i also bet that the fc10 rame has changed when they went pure fibre and that the newer ones are coming in stiffer and maybe less headlight than the older iterations, and now this is the gerbil on the circular cage and i dont wish to play..you win,..the Gen2 is more manueverable than the C10 which is what i said, and the C10 pro is less headlight in its current form than the Gen2...happy? bob i am happy to respond to your query, but i am off for some 2 on 1's..will catch up w. you later and thanks for the comp. Edo

Rabbit
03-02-2005, 11:22 AM
At the risk of being the lone dissenter, I think that the Gen II does not carry the family lineage very well. In my book it's too stiff and whatever fibreglass is in it doesn't do much in the way of flex. I find it ironic that the C10 has kevlar in its build and it flexier than the Gen II which has fibreglass.

I really like the way the C10 is built and feel that it now stands alone in racket-dom as a flexible frame. I think it's a shame as well since this feel is what set Volkl apart from the rest of the crowd. Maybe they'll build another like it....if they do....I'll buy.

Django
03-02-2005, 12:05 PM
Gee, NBM, take it easy; we agree on the maneuverability. (What have I done to **** you off?) I was just suggesting that the maneuverability may come from the Gen2 being more headlight. Leave well enough alone? I'm just trying to add my own opinion, that's all.

altawolfe
03-02-2005, 01:17 PM
At the risk of being the lone dissenter, I think that the Gen II does not carry the family lineage very well. In my book it's too stiff and whatever fibreglass is in it doesn't do much in the way of flex. I find it ironic that the C10 has kevlar in its build and it flexier than the Gen II which has fibreglass.

I really like the way the C10 is built and feel that it now stands alone in racket-dom as a flexible frame. I think it's a shame as well since this feel is what set Volkl apart from the rest of the crowd. Maybe they'll build another like it....if they do....I'll buy.


rabbit, how would you describe the feedback of the C10 in the upper hoop?
does it feel like multiple soft shock waves? what is the ball response like on mishits>? thanks,

Rabbit
03-02-2005, 01:28 PM
I would call it a friendly feeling. I like feeling the head of the frame flex when I hit the ball. I don't think there are any shock waves that come from the frame. The friendly flex of the frame softens mishits and helps to dampen shock.

NoBadMojo
03-02-2005, 02:17 PM
django you do this everytime..you are turning onto a breakpoint who puts every word under a microscope looking for something to disagree with..that was why i was reticent about posting another description here for max..i knew there would be a word or two that wasnt perfect for someone..probably you, and that you would have to say something about it....the Gen2 uses the P-Rap grommets .those usually make a frame feel like there is more mass in the head..the C10 is a great bat,the Gen2 is a great bat, and the T10's are a great bat..i would be happy using any of them..i am NOT going to argue with you over the possibility of a couple swingweight points..you may win that discussion, but maybe when you play tomorrow the Gen2 might not feel quite as headlight to you

NoBadMojo
03-02-2005, 02:31 PM
Bob this one is an easy one i think..go with the Gen2. I really havent spent alot of time with the 5g..more with the Ki5, but i think they have the same headsize and string pattern...the Gen2 is the most spinny. the X1 is a great frame, but the sweetspot is quite a bit smaller, and it can feel a little shocky when hit up high..also since you mention sensitivity to string tension, the x1 only sems to play well within the narrow 55-60 range, you can play around with all kinds of tensions w. the G2. also, you can feel the hit more in the handle with the X1 and more on the strings with the Gen2. te Gen2 is more arm friendly..i think all 3 play as their specs indicate. the X1 will do everything the Gen2 does but the Gen2 is little more forgiving, bigger sweetspotted, less harsh on mishits, and is a dream to volley with..i found the power levels to be very similar. i bet they have about the same swingweight, but the x1 seemed to be less headlight. i would say the X1 is for a player a level above what a Gen2 player might use..goodluck

Django
03-02-2005, 03:35 PM
To me, these message boards are for posting opinions based on personal knowledge and experience. They're subjective. I'm not trying to contradict you, NBM; I have no interest in viewing words under microscopes; and I certainly have no interest in "winning" any discussion. In fact, I agree w/ and gain new insights from nearly every stance you take. When I disagree, it's only to add another perspective to the discussion -- and I've offered my sincere apologies when you've taken offense to my disagreements. Why would you want to squash this kind of open discussion? I can't speak to your surly attitude toward Breakpoint and others, but no one here is attacking you; no one's saying you're wrong. So please don't react so defensively when someone respectfully disagrees and offers another viewpoint. They're offered only in the spirit of healthy debate.

NoBadMojo
03-02-2005, 03:50 PM
django when people dont agree on stuff, i think the specs are useful. unless people think the specs are wrong too, then what's the point of having specs to begin with? personally., i sure wouldnt buy a frame if i was looking for one based upon other people's perceptions of it...i would try them based upon the specs i know i like, and then demo maybe 3 or at the most 4 frames, and then pick one..it's really prettty simple..i think the input of posters can be useful, bt only in a general sort of way. people's perceptions of things tennis can wildly vary, and some people know what they are talking about, and others do not...it's only a tennis racquet..whether one is 2 points more headlight than another is really of no import, and you guys can win all those discussions as you like becase it just isnt impt, and they have specs for stuff like that..i dont feel like i am being atacked here..i just feel like my posts get stuck under a goofy microscope by people just looking for any possible exception or anomoly or possible misinterpretation so they can try and bust me on it..look at the specs...they;re objective and not subjective, and i could give a hoot over which frame is more headlight..i would be happy playing any of these frames..they're all good, and it's all about the racquet operator..as for the Rabbit, nothing would ever pry that wet noodle of a frame known as the C10 out of his hands :)......but seriously, the C10 is a classic and there is nothing i know of like it...i was more into the T10...and the Gen2..i like feeling the ball rather than the racquet flexing, but THAT is something that is very subjective..specs are NOT.they are objective

BreakPoint
03-02-2005, 04:24 PM
Django,
NoBadMojo is a very sensitive man so we are not allowed to question anything that he writes. I've learned my lesson the hard way. So be it.

I also agree. This board is not a contest. It's about expressing opinions and observations, whether they coincide with other posters viewpoints or not. It's also about helping to answer questions of posters that may not have the opportunity to be able to demo racquets and need to make a purchase decision based upon the opinions expressed on this board. There are no winners nor losers.

NoBadMojo
03-02-2005, 05:38 PM
breakpoint you are of course free to question anything and everything which is what you seem to do around here, as though you know everything..it's one thing to question a person and correct them when you are right, but quite another to look for every little detail to try and correct them when it is you that is wrong, and them in the right..this is what happens with you quite alot, and it is really boorish childish behaviour..i could cite several examples and maybe others would believe..i dont feel the need however, and i suggest to you that it is you making this into a contest always feeling the need to have last word and trying to correct people who are right to begin with ...i'm not being sensitive..i am only telling you what evidently you have not the capacity to see..none of this has anything to do with me, as i am only the messenger..it's about you...check your package.

Flatspin
03-02-2005, 05:54 PM
Wow!!! new ground, agreeing to disagree! Deep stuff!

BreakPoint
03-02-2005, 06:00 PM
Sorry about that NBMJ. I forgot that you're always right about everything. Just like you were about the RDC stiffness rating (ahem...thanks to rich s, of course). My apologies for purposely trying to be wrong.

Radical Shot
03-02-2005, 06:24 PM
I love the feeling of the C10 Pro also. I recently picked one up off **** for $20 strung! What a bargain. It plays great. I am especially enjoying it after playing with the Pro Staff 6.0 85 for awhile. It is a very sweet racquet. The flexy feel to me feels as if you can hit the ball early and hard when your timing is good, or you can hit the ball a little late and the racquet compensates by flexing to get the ball around and back into play. Volleys are rock solid. When you hit the sweet spot, there really is nothing quite like it - I think it has the sweetest spot in any racquet I've tried.

There is no vibration. I love the Volkl feel.

NoBadMojo
03-02-2005, 06:31 PM
you arent going to bait me into anything breakpoint and you may have last word as usual..i'm out, and i will just ignore everything you post as wrong as it might be, and people can decide who they wish to believe..that way i dont have to go thru all this pure crap.if i am wrong i admit that i am, and i am careful about not parsing bad information, which is the opposite of your behaviour....if you feel the need to respond to this and maybe post something out of context to try and prove your point <like you seem to do>, feel free, but this is very pointless, and you will excuse me if i dont wish to play along.

Swingman
03-02-2005, 07:42 PM
Sorry to interrupt these exchanges but I wanted to throw in my $0.02. For perspective, I have played briefly with the C-10 and Tour 10 Gen I. and played for about a year with the Tour 8. I would rate myself a strong 4.5 or weak 5.0. I recently demoed the X1 and Gen II simultaneously for a week with high hopes for the Gen II. However I much preferred the X1 during the week. I think it came down mainly to the flex of the racquet. I felt my input was much more direct with the X1 which resulted in greater accuracy and confidence. Due to the soft flex of the Gen II I felt like I had to give myself a 3-4 foot cushion when going for the corners and lines. Drop volleys were like guesswork. The Gen II is definately more comfortable and felt like it provided more spin. With respect to the X1, free points on serves, volley and baseline winners came easily. At the end of the week, I came to the conclusion that with the split second decisions that I need to make on court I don't have time to calculate what I think the racquet will do. In comparison to the Gen I the only improvement for me was the slight decrease in power. By the way, the grip on the Gen II felt really awkward. Never noticed it too much on past Volkls

spam
03-03-2005, 04:34 AM
I really like the gen 2,its by far the best frame(for my game) that Ive used .My racquet history for the last few years is Fischer vac pro 98,head pro tour 280 ,volkl tour 10,tour 10 gen2.
To me,it plays better from the baseline than the tour 10,volleys and serves better than the fischer,tour10 and pro280 and feels that bit lighter and more maneuverable than any of the other frames.In fact I would describe it as playing similar to the 280 from the back,but with better feel at the net and the potential to hit serves with serious pace-this was an area of concern for me with the tour10 gen1 as I always felt like I was doing ALL the work.In the end it all comes down to what sort of feel you like and your standard of play.Oh the other point is you won't feel like your arm is falling off after 3 sets and try an overgrip.

bobdstrategy
03-03-2005, 09:00 AM
Thanks a lot for the great and clear advice NoBadMojo, and that makes total sense to me so I am going with the Gen II...that's a relief. I owe you for that so if there is ever anything I can do for you please let me know. I am in Port Angeles, Washington, right across the water from Victoria, Canada. We have a great tennis club here and lot of activity so if you are ever this way please let me know.

Also, thanks to Swingman, Spam and others who contributed to the general topic I raised. It is really gratifying to have that kind of thoughtful support, especially as a new person on the boards, from people like you.

Best regards, thanks again and blessings to all, Bob

Alley Cat
03-03-2005, 09:37 AM
Bob, my brother-in-law just moved to your area and plays quite a bit of tennis. He would love to hook up with a player/club. What's the name of your club (is it the Peninsula Club?) and can he look you up? Great coincidence. Thanks

Alley Cat
03-04-2005, 07:35 PM
(question about posters w/multiple screen names moved to "Rants & Raves)

Blue Drop
03-06-2005, 07:00 PM
I'm a longtime C10 Pro user.

I was really disappointed by the initial Tour 10 (the black one). Didn't feel anything like the C10.

Was interested to encounter the Gen II Tour 10 this weekend, and gave it a shot. There are subtle differences, but the bottom line is that I feel I could carry one in my back and switch to it seamlessly from the C10 if I broke strings. I could not say the same of the original Tour 10.

I still prefer my C10s, but I would consider getting one of these Gen IIs. You couldn't give me the original Tour 10.

bobdstrategy
03-10-2005, 09:02 AM
Hey Alley Cat, great to hear about your brother in law moving to the area! We need all the tennis players we can get, but we do have a very active club here with approaching 80 members. We have fall and spring leagues with spring and summer open tournaments. Our club is the Peninsula Tennis Club and you can visit our site at: http://www.olypen.com/peninsulatennisclub/ Please tell your brother in law to email me anytime and I would be glad to roll out the welcome mat and "introduce him around" and get some hitting going with him. My email is bobdstrategy@yahoo.com. And if you are ever up this way, let me know too. It's really beautiful here and great tennis weather most of the time.

Thanks Ally Cat, Bob