PDA

View Full Version : Williams' NO to Indian Wells


tennispassion
02-26-2009, 08:24 PM
The aftermath of 2001 Indian Wells final continues as Williams sisters decide to sit out of the competition during the BNP Paribas Open.

Read the complete article on www.tennisearth.com

or

go to URL

http://www.tennisearth.com/news/tennisNews/Williams_NO_to_Indian_Wells_423490.htm

Love40
02-26-2009, 08:50 PM
Good riddance.

foLster
02-26-2009, 08:52 PM
Yea, wasn't expecting them to come :P

LanceStern
02-26-2009, 09:17 PM
Traumatizing. I don't blame them for not wanting to go back. Being african american myself, I probably wouldn't go back either. I just hope this can be smoothed over eventually.

Don't let the father talk though

viktorkwan
02-26-2009, 09:38 PM
Hurray!!! no sour grapes comments from Serena when she loses....

what a reprieve!

Xuxa Kuerten
02-26-2009, 10:08 PM
For those that didn't watch it at that time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcUcTMdn4dE

tennispassion
02-26-2009, 10:25 PM
God bless Indian Wells! I'd love to get rid of them and their mentally ******** parents in the other tournaments too. Especially in Europe. These two uglies spoilt two of my Wimbledons and nearly ruined one RG.


Its so horrible of you to say that. Do you watch sports for babes, or for quality tennis. What the sisters have done for sports is phenomenal.. and none of your blatant and cheap comments are gonna lessen their impact on the game.. WTA should thank the sisters.. People are watching them because the sisters are playing. How would you feel if someone else said something bad about your parents...huh...? Shame on you......!

NamRanger
02-26-2009, 10:30 PM
God bless Indian Wells! I'd love to get rid of them and their mentally ******** parents in the other tournaments too. Especially in Europe. These two uglies spoilt two of my Wimbledons and nearly ruined one RG.



I don't care if Serena has been arrogant in the past or not; I don't care about how Richard Williams is dumb at times. I still think what those people did that year was incredibly rude.

edmondsm
02-26-2009, 10:37 PM
God bless Indian Wells! I'd love to get rid of them and their mentally ******** parents in the other tournaments too. Especially in Europe. These two uglies spoilt two of my Wimbledons and nearly ruined one RG.

Pure idiotic garbage.

jones101
02-27-2009, 03:36 AM
For those that didn't watch it at that time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcUcTMdn4dE

I dont blame them for not goingback, that was harsh.

Raiha
02-27-2009, 04:09 AM
what a strange situation, not something you'd expect in california. i can't really hear what they're saying in the video, but i'll assume its pretty bad. if i were them i wouldn't go back either.

Objective Danny
02-27-2009, 05:32 AM
God bless Indian Wells! I'd love to get rid of them and their mentally ******** parents in the other tournaments too. Especially in Europe. These two uglies spoilt two of my Wimbledons and nearly ruined one RG.

Truer words were never posted.

The Williams Sisters are the scourge of the WTA. The Association, tennis and the sports world would be ten times the better if they never again stepped foot on a tennis court.

jaggy
02-27-2009, 05:36 AM
More food for others in the buffets

Gorecki
02-27-2009, 05:39 AM
goes to show those guys at IW they cant just accept Peer like that into events...

ps: please read with sarcastic swith on...

jetlee2k
02-27-2009, 06:08 AM
I was there for the whole thing.. The reason people was ****ed off b/c Venus gave Serena a walk over.. Imaging you are waiting in the heat for a whole day for the match and I think about 10-15 mins before it starts that announced Venus pulled out.. That ****ed people off.. and Richard Williams has the tendency to include RACE into his reasons.. I knew one of the main BIG sponsor for that year IW and he told me that no way they will continue their sponsorship after the contract over.. ..

Nickk
02-27-2009, 06:10 AM
So wait,
Are all you people supporting the fact that a 19 old girl was heckled and had racist tauts directed at her?

jetlee2k
02-27-2009, 06:11 AM
Truer words were never posted.

The Williams Sisters are the scourge of the WTA. The Association, tennis and the sports world would be ten times the better if they never again stepped foot on a tennis court.

I am no hate or disklike the Williams what so ever BUT those are the exact words that I heard some of the main sponsors said.. They are happy if the Williams not play the tournement at all.. !! I don't think even Nike sells much of Williams gear compare to others.. !!

icedevil0289
02-27-2009, 06:12 AM
I was there for the whole thing.. The reason people was ****ed off b/c Venus gave Serena a walk over.. Imaging you are waiting in the heat for a whole day for the match and I think about 10-15 mins before it starts that announced Venus pulled out.. That ****ed people off.. and Richard Williams has the tendency to include RACE into his reasons.. I knew one of the main BIG sponsor for that year IW and he told me that no way they will continue their sponsorship after the contract over.. ..

I never understood how it was a race thing. So many people on here were like what happened in indian wells was due to racism but then I read that it was because venus withdrew at the last minute. I would have been ****ed if I bought a ticket for the final and had to wait only to find out there was no final.

jetlee2k
02-27-2009, 06:14 AM
So wait,
Are all you people supporting the fact that a 19 old girl was heckled and had racist tauts directed at her?

I think that is what Richard Williams wanted people to think.. He decided Venus pulled out and then he said he heard one fan say something and etc.. that's whole thing from start was ochastrated by Richard ..

Yes, there were alot of people BOOOING them but not b/c of their RACE but b/c they pulled out last minute.. gave Serena a walk over.. Yeah.. I had to drive home early too..

CyBorg
02-27-2009, 06:14 AM
Boo-hoo. Fans are jerks, but they pay their money, which the Williams sisters pocket.

The cries of racism on the part of certain folks strike me as racist in themselves. You have a whole crowd of mostly white people booing you, which must mean that they are racist. There couldn't be any other reason, like the walkover.

Linear thinking at its worst. The whole world isn't out to get you, Williamses. Just quite acting like *******s.

jetlee2k
02-27-2009, 06:18 AM
Boo-hoo. Fans are jerks, but they pay their money, which the Williams sisters pocket.

The cries of racism on the part of certain folks strike me as racist in themselves. You have a whole crowd of mostly white people booing you, which must mean that they are racist. There couldn't be any other reason, like the walkover.

Linear thinking at its worst. The whole world isn't out to get you, Williamses. Just quite acting like *******s.

I think the crowd were lots of white.. lots of BLACK (they came out to suport the Williams from Los Angeles).. and lots of Yellow like me who love to watch tennis.. and some Brownies.. who mixed in.. I meant the whole thing was started b/c of Richard Williams.... and we all get fool by it.. !!

CyBorg
02-27-2009, 06:34 AM
I think the crowd were lots of white.. lots of BLACK (they came out to suport the Williams from Los Angeles).. and lots of Yellow like me who love to watch tennis.. and some Brownies.. who mixed in.. I meant the whole thing was started b/c of Richard Williams.... and we all get fool by it.. !!

I don't think anyone gets fooled. What happens is usually two-fold:

A) The media covers it, because there's potential controversy and is therefore news-worthy for them (commodified)

B) There is always potential for appeasement on the part of corporate entities towards the parties who claim offense, because of the negative publicity involved, rather than an active acknowledgement of fault

In other words, the story permeates despite the fact that most folks read this and don't buy a word of it.

miyagi
02-27-2009, 06:46 AM
I really dont know what happened definatively but for a whole crowd to boo a young girl is uncalled for...

If that happened to me I doubt I would go back....

For the people saying good ridance ineffect thats an interesting stance....because if it were not for the Williams sisters the standard of tennis being playe on the WTA would not have risen when the first came on the scene and without them now we would have an even weaker field...

You can't please everyone....

But I think they are great champions

gj011
02-27-2009, 06:58 AM
I really dont know what happened definatively but for a whole crowd to boo a young girl is uncalled for...

If that happened to me I doubt I would go back....


Than it was also uncalled for the whole crowd to boo Djokovic on USO after he defended himself from Roddick's sleazy claims. He could have also pulled racism or bigotry like Richard did, but of course he didn't.

Should he boycott the USO now? I don't think so.

LanceStern
02-27-2009, 07:20 AM
Than it was also uncalled for the whole crowd to boo Djokovic on USO after he defended himself from Roddick's sleazy claims. He could have also pulled racism or bigotry like Richard did, but of course he didn't.

Should he boycott the USO now? I don't think so.

It was uncalled for by the USO crowd.
He can go ahead and boycott USO if he so chooses.


They booed and insulted (claims of course) a 19 year old girl for something out of her control. All these "conspiracy" and "everything is set up" rumors are garbage too

VivalaVida
02-27-2009, 07:21 AM
Than it was also uncalled for the whole crowd to boo Djokovic on USO after he defended himself from Roddick's sleazy claims. He could have also pulled racism or bigotry like Richard did, but of course he didn't.

Should he boycott the USO now? I don't think so.
Djokovic insulted the crowd and got booed for it. That was an extremely poor example. Epic Fail. It had nothing to do with racism and bigotry.

VivalaVida
02-27-2009, 07:25 AM
a clip from the incident. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcUcTMdn4dE .

gj011
02-27-2009, 07:27 AM
Djokovic insulted the crowd and got booed for it. That was an extremely poor example. Epic Fail.

Of course it doesn't have anything to do with racism and bigotry. Same as IW incident. That was my point.

However Djokovic didn't insult the crowd. Crowd was over the top during the match as well and all he said was that they were cheering against him because of Roddick's stupid and false accusations. I don't get how is that an insult.

You could also say that Williams family insulted the crowd by pulling Venus out of the match at the last moment and giving Serena a walkover.

So example is perfectly viable and your comment was "epic fail" as some of you like to say.

Also this "epic fail" nonsece is getting quite lame.

gj011
02-27-2009, 07:29 AM
a clip from the incident. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcUcTMdn4dE .

This link was posted already in this thread.

tennis_hand
02-27-2009, 07:31 AM
who cares.

VivalaVida
02-27-2009, 07:34 AM
Of course it doesn't have anything to do with racism and bigotry. Same as IW incident. That was my point.

However Djokovic didn't insult the crowd. Crowd was over the top during the match as well and all he said was that they were cheering against him because of stupid and false Roddick's accusations. I don't get how is that an insult.

You could also say that Williams family insulted the crowd by pulling Venus out of the match at the last moment and giving Serena a walkover.

So example is perfectly viable and your comment was "epic fail" as some of you like to say.

Also this "epic fail" nonsece is getting quite lame.
. Djokovic called out the crowd by falsely accusing them of believing that he was faking his injuries. Keep in mind that most people were there to watch a tennis match and had no clue about what happened in the press conference. Djokovic brought the booing upon himself by accusing the crowd . Djokovic even admitted that he handled the situation very poorly. Funny you didnt realize that at the beginning of djokovics interview with michael baracan the crowd cheered loudly for his victory

saram
02-27-2009, 07:36 AM
I hope Billie Jean King slams them with the suspension that skipping the event calls for. Not like the exact same fans are in the crowd eight years later. Not the same sponsors. Last minute withdrawal is going to bring forth some hecklers...and Richard has a way of bringing out the worst in tennis fans that surrounds racism--look what he said about Evert.

Time to forget the past and start playing.

gj011
02-27-2009, 07:41 AM
maybe you should take a course on english comprehension. Djokovic called out the crowd by falsely accusing them of believing that he was faking his injuries. Keep in mind that most people were there to watch a tennis match and had no clue about what happened in the press conference. Djokovic brought the booing upon himself by accusing the crowd . Djokovic even admitted that he handled the situation very poorly and yes your example is not viable and is indeed an epic fail. Funny you didnt realize that at the beginning of djokovics interview with michael baracan the crowd cheered loudly for his victory

Djokovic was calling out Roddick after his sleazy remarks, not the crowd. Again you forgot that crowd was booing Djokovic during the match as well because of what Roddick said.

Also you are ignoring the fact that what Williams family did is much closer to the insult than what Djokovic did.

And again your "epic fail" is lame.

VivalaVida
02-27-2009, 07:46 AM
Djokovic was calling out Roddick after his sleazy remarks, not the crowd. Again you forgot that crowd was booing Djokovic during the match as well because of what Roddick said.

Also you are ignoring the fact that what Williams family did is much closer to the insult than what Djokovic did.

And again your "epic fail" is lame.
he called out both. He called out roddick which is completely understandable but then he called out the crowd which was not cool at all. djokovics exact words " Well, I know they are already against me because they think I am faking" He lost alot of his fans in the stadium who were cheering for him when he won the match. Bottom line, I dont think that the booing incident with djokovic was anything racial. He would not have been booed if he didnt accuse the crowd. I guess we can agree to disagree.

mentalcase
02-27-2009, 07:56 AM
who cares.

exactly.

I'm sure other players have tournaments they don't like playing. The WS don't like playing IW so...whatever.

miyagi
02-27-2009, 08:10 AM
Than it was also uncalled for the whole crowd to boo Djokovic on USO after he defended himself from Roddick's sleazy claims. He could have also pulled racism or bigotry like Richard did, but of course he didn't.

Should he boycott the USO now? I don't think so.

The two examples are not even close....but I'll humour you for a sec....I personally thought Roddick put his foot in his mouth....he tried to be clever and over stepped the mark....

I think the crowd were just supporting "their" guy (Roddick)

Djoko was not a girl nor a teenager.......he stood up for himself like he should have and had to suffer the consequences....

Neither I nor you know if anyone did or didn't say somethin racist.....I didn't mention that particular incident in my response so I dont know why you are bringing it up now....

It's not an important tounament (to them) and they can afford to miss it therefore let them miss it.

latinking
02-27-2009, 09:28 AM
Didn't Rafa get booed last year? I think it was in Paris matsers? Someone can correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, if I remeber he got booed for retireing in a match. I don't think he will hold a grude. LOL.

icedevil0289
02-27-2009, 09:40 AM
Didn't Rafa get booed last year? I think it was in Paris matsers? Someone can correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, if I remeber he got booed for retireing in a match. I don't think he will hold a grude. LOL.

yeah he did. He retired after the first set, I think 6-1. Atleast he finished the set. Poor rafa though, but, I don't think he thought much of it.

Xuxa Kuerten
02-27-2009, 10:06 AM
I'm personally not a fan of the Williams sisters. They're great players for sure, hit very hard, but it's just not my preferred style. I don't like some of their remarks either. They seem kinda arrogant sometimes for me. But fir many reasons they're very important to the sport. With regards to that incident, I do think it had a racial and gender tone. Racism is not an objective and obvious issue as many would think. Here in Brazil it's much more subliminar, but nonetheless not less relevant. People may be racist or xenophobic without knowing. It may be part of the common sense of a certain group of people, so you don't even contest it. I think Indian Wells' was a racial incident because it just doesn't make sense to boo and say improper things to the Williams family if you know Venus had to retire due to wrist problems. And the problem is that had she entered the match and lost easily, maybe the situation wouldn't happen (at least not so intensely), but certainly many would say it was arranged as a conspiracy for Serena to win (what wouldn't be fair at all in this case). So why did Venus had to play if she just couldn't? Would the fans react the same way if the same event happened with, let me say, the Bryan brothers? Anyway, I think is defensable to say it wasn't a racial stuff, but I'm deeply sorry for those that not only don't criticize what happened that day but support it and wish the "withdraw from tennis". People who say that just can't blame the French crowd for being inelegant or criticize the Dubai tournament for not allowing Sharah Peer to play on it. You just can't mix up sports with personal, politics, ethnic, religious issues. This (sport) is the place for the embracement of the alterity, not for segregation. It's just not possible to say with conviction that anyone would do different if one were treated like the Williams' sisters were that day.

cknobman
02-27-2009, 10:15 AM
Its just one less opportunity good ole Richard will have to play the race card and claim white America is racist against his family.

Nickk
02-27-2009, 10:32 AM
I think that is what Richard Williams wanted people to think.. He decided Venus pulled out and then he said he heard one fan say something and etc.. that's whole thing from start was ochastrated by Richard ..

Yes, there were alot of people BOOOING them but not b/c of their RACE but b/c they pulled out last minute.. gave Serena a walk over.. Yeah.. I had to drive home early too..


oh, well screw him than. Too bad Serena got caught in the middle of that.

tahiti
02-27-2009, 10:38 AM
I'm not a big fan of the sisters but they do provide some entertaining tennis and have worked hard for what they have.

Some of the comments on this thread though are sick. I'll leave it at that.

NamRanger
02-27-2009, 10:43 AM
Boo-hoo. Fans are jerks, but they pay their money, which the Williams sisters pocket.

The cries of racism on the part of certain folks strike me as racist in themselves. You have a whole crowd of mostly white people booing you, which must mean that they are racist. There couldn't be any other reason, like the walkover.

Linear thinking at its worst. The whole world isn't out to get you, Williamses. Just quite acting like *******s.


Regardless of racism or not, they didn't have to boo her as she was coming in to watch the match. Richard Williams did step over the line, but so did the crowd at IW also.

sureshs
02-27-2009, 11:00 AM
Regardless of racism or not, they didn't have to boo her as she was coming in to watch the match. Richard Williams did step over the line, but so did the crowd at IW also.

That is really the bottom line. And as far as tendinitis goes, a lot of folks seem to be willing to swallow the Fed mono story and the Fed back pain story (Peter Bodo seems to be the first guy to cast suspicion on these stories in public). Why not extend the same benefit of doubt to Venus?

They were young girls then, and instead of supporting their countrywomen, the crowd showed its true "colors." No one should be forced to put up with that kind of mob behavior, regardless of the excuses.

This may be a year for healing, but first the affected party must agree. It is not for others who were not affected at all to declare that healing must begin.

And re: Richard Williams, his comments on Chrissie were vicious considering that she never hurt them and on the contrary, always supported them and still does.

jt1224x0
02-27-2009, 11:23 AM
I'm not a big fan of the sisters but they do provide some entertaining tennis and have worked hard for what they have.

Some of the comments on this thread though are sick. I'll leave it at that.

Most people on this website are racist and sexist that's why they can't stand the Williams sisters and the WTA. And That's why I rarely post here.

CyBorg
02-27-2009, 11:24 AM
Regardless of racism or not, they didn't have to boo her as she was coming in to watch the match. Richard Williams did step over the line, but so did the crowd at IW also.

I don't have volume here at work. I'll review the clip at home later.

All I can say is that fans boo mercilessly at all sports, so the complaints and particularly the defense of the sisters suprises me.

Fans are paying customers. They reserve the right to boo. Sports are theatre with villains and heroes - fans are part of it.

CyBorg
02-27-2009, 11:25 AM
That is really the bottom line. And as far as tendinitis goes, a lot of folks seem to be willing to swallow the Fed mono story and the Fed back pain story (Peter Bodo seems to be the first guy to cast suspicion on these stories in public). Why not extend the same benefit of doubt to Venus?.

You clearly have not been paying attention. Federer got flack despite the fact that he kept playing while sick with mono.

Moose Malloy
02-27-2009, 11:56 AM
I'm not sure how any of you(even if you were there) could know for sure that there weren't any racial comments made in 2001 Indian Wells. One or 2 idiots could have said something that Serena, Venus, or Richard heard. Often in charged situations at sporting events (where everyone is screaming, etc) 1 or 2 fans can get away with saying some pretty foul stuff(I've heard it at NBA/MLB games personally). So 1 or 2 racist fans combined with an american crowd that is 99% against you, an american (seriously I've been to davis cup matches in the US where the crowds weren't 1/4 as hostile as this to the away team), & I understand why you would want to take a pass on this event forever(& not necessarily just because you weren't treated well, imagine how annoying the press would be with her if she played? it wouldn't be possible for her to 'just move on' they wouldn't let her, every damn press conference would begin with, 'so in 2001...')

and lets not forget the racist fan ejected at key biscayne in 2007, this isn't all just 'imagined racism' from the williams family:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdFR_76oI7I&feature=related

All I can say is that fans boo mercilessly at all sports,

yeah, usually in sports where you are actually allowed to make noise during the game. In tennis? not so much.


and going back to the 'reason' the crowd was upset. ok, so venus withdrew minutes before her scheduled semi with serena(which I agree was not cool)

but do you realize the final wasn't played until 2 days later? with a different crowd that was there that night for the cancelled semi? do any of you attend tennis events? its not like the same crowd is present for every session.

I thought it was strange that the hostility was so intense even though it was 2 days later, with many people that weren't affected by the cancelled semi at all. It was sort of disturbing to see.

SaunderS
02-27-2009, 12:05 PM
Have the Williams sisters been to IW since 2001?

janipyt05
02-27-2009, 12:17 PM
I think both sister need not play but have made it up by playing other tounements Venus is in Mexico and i think Serena will play a lot more she alread has this year more than she ever has

OddJack
02-27-2009, 12:23 PM
well, I have no complains. Can happily do w/o their screams.
Would love to see Sharapova though.

MagPro
02-27-2009, 12:32 PM
1st step in ending racism or any problem is admitting there is a problem... Racism is alive and well in the U.S. I can speak from past experiences. If you are not a minority or have been a victim of it you wouldnt know. Those Morons that were alive in the 50s making blacks sit in the back of the bus etc..are still around, just a bit older and most of those idiots were allowed to have children. So what do you have, little bigots that are grown today.
Dont give me the Obama is president so we cant possibly have racism here in the good ol' USA speech. Guess who has had the most death threats in the time he has held office??? I wonder who that is? And to anyone who is about to tell me if I dont like it here then I should leave. I love the US but, we are not perfect.
If they dont want to play thats there decision! If they get fined they obviously dont care. If you are willing to stand for something then, you pay the consequences. Thats what most people arent strong enough to do. We need more people who are willing to stand up for what they think is right! More power to them.

saram
02-27-2009, 12:38 PM
More food for others in the buffets

Classic post!

saram
02-27-2009, 12:41 PM
1st step in ending racism or any problem is admitting there is a problem... Racism is alive and well in the U.S. I can speak from past experiences. If you are not a minority or have been a victim of it you wouldnt know. Those Morons that were alive in the 50s making blacks sit in the back of the bus etc..are still around, just a bit older and most of those idiots were allowed to have children. So what do you have, little bigots that are grown today.
Dont give me the Obama is president so we cant possibly have racism here in the good ol' USA speech. Guess who has had the most death threats in the time he has held office??? I wonder who that is? And to anyone who is about to tell me if I dont like it here then I should leave. I love the US but, we are not perfect.
If they dont want to play thats there decision! If they get fined they obviously dont care. If you are willing to stand for something then, you pay the consequences. Thats what most people arent strong enough to do. We need more people who are willing to stand up for what they think is right! More power to them.

Get off your soap box, please. I understand your beef with society but come on...you are saying the Williams sisters are right and Indian Wells is the most racist location of any tournament on tour? If they are TRULY standing up for something and making a stand--then why did they play in Dubai when Peer was discriminated against? Makes NO SENSE.

Can't stand up only when it suits you and your pocketbook. At least Roddick stood up when he had everything to loose and nothing to gain from it--he lost money and points.

saram
02-27-2009, 12:45 PM
I'm not sure how any of you(even if you were there) could know for sure that there weren't any racial comments made in 2001 Indian Wells. One or 2 idiots could have said something that Serena, Venus, or Richard heard. Often in charged situations at sporting events (where everyone is screaming, etc) 1 or 2 fans can get away with saying some pretty foul stuff(I've heard it at NBA/MLB games personally). So 1 or 2 racist fans combined with an american crowd that is 99% against you, an american (seriously I've been to davis cup matches in the US where the crowds weren't 1/4 as hostile as this to the away team), & I understand why you would want to take a pass on this event forever(& not necessarily just because you weren't treated well, imagine how annoying the press would be with her if she played? it wouldn't be possible for her to 'just move on' they wouldn't let her, every damn press conference would begin with, 'so in 2001...')

and lets not forget the racist fan ejected at key biscayne in 2007, this isn't all just 'imagined racism' from the williams family:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdFR_76oI7I&feature=related



yeah, usually in sports where you are actually allowed to make noise during the game. In tennis? not so much.


and going back to the 'reason' the crowd was upset. ok, so venus withdrew minutes before her scheduled semi with serena(which I agree was not cool)

but do you realize the final wasn't played until 2 days later? with a different crowd that was there that night for the cancelled semi? do any of you attend tennis events? its not like the same crowd is present for every session.

I thought it was strange that the hostility was so intense even though it was 2 days later, with many people that weren't affected by the cancelled semi at all. It was sort of disturbing to see.

It is funny how some of feel sorry for Richard Williams even though HE said racial remarks about one of the kindest and nicest people to ever play the game--Chris Evert.

Why does he get a free pass calling her white trash or something to that nature?

MAKES NO SENSE.

Richard Williams uses the racial card every single chance he gets. He is a true bigot in my mind.

MagPro
02-27-2009, 12:50 PM
Get off your soap box, please. I understand your beef with society but come on...you are saying the Williams sisters are right and Indian Wells is the most racist location of any tournament on tour? If they are TRULY standing up for something and making a stand--then why did they play in Dubai when Peer was discriminated against? Makes NO SENSE.

Can't stand up only when it suits you and your pocketbook. At least Roddick stood up when he had everything to loose and nothing to gain from it--he lost money and points.

I didnt say that what they are doing is right or wrong but, if they feel the way they feel then that is there decision and theirs alone. Where did I say the IW is the most racist location on the tour?? I go to that tournament almost every year with or without the Williams and enjoy it. You have to pick and choose your battles. Peer has to fight her own. Good for Roddick I commend him for standing up FOR WHAT HE THINKS IS RIGHT! Does that mean everyone that played is wrong? NO!

jetlee2k
02-27-2009, 12:55 PM
Regardless of racism or not, they didn't have to boo her as she was coming in to watch the match. Richard Williams did step over the line, but so did the crowd at IW also.

I think the crowd was ****ed off at both.. Venus & Richard.. If she was injured, or illness and etc she should not show up and act she was fine.. We were waiting for the whole time and about 15mins before the match start they announced she pulled out.. If you were there, you would be very ****ed off too..

saram
02-27-2009, 12:56 PM
Magpro,

I did not say you thought IW was the most racist tournament--but the actions of the Williams sisters does indicate that they think so. And, Richard has to share the responsibility and blame considering his past.

MagPro
02-27-2009, 12:57 PM
It is funny how some of feel sorry for Richard Williams even though HE said racial remarks about one of the kindest and nicest people to ever play the game--Chris Evert.

Why does he get a free pass calling her white trash or something to that nature?

MAKES NO SENSE.

Richard Williams uses the racial card every single chance he gets. He is a true bigot in my mind.

Its really IGNORANT and Stupid to pass judgment good or bad about people you dont truly know!

saram
02-27-2009, 12:58 PM
Its just one less opportunity good ole Richard will have to play the race card and claim white America is racist against his family.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!

jetlee2k
02-27-2009, 01:01 PM
Most people on this website are racist and sexist that's why they can't stand the Williams sisters and the WTA. And That's why I rarely post here.

wowow.. that's a big statement there.. People talks the truth, speaks the truth then someone call racist or sexist.. I just can't watch WTA match so I am a sexist?? WTA tour is a joke right now compare to 10 years ago.. so am I a sexist? They are asking equal pay but their matches just bore to death and one sided.. so if I say no EQUAL PAY I am a sexist? we have to be honest to ourselves and realize the problem.. To me, EQUAL PAY is sexist.. They use the radical card to get equal pay.. The men work their butt off and barely made any $$.. They just play a 50mins match Grand Slam final and they made equal.. That's SEXIST to me..

MagPro
02-27-2009, 01:03 PM
Magpro,

I did not say you thought IW was the most racist tournament--but the actions of the Williams sisters does indicate that they think so. And, Richard has to share the responsibility and blame considering his past.

If they think that they must have a reason? Have you walked in there shoes to know why they feel that way? No, Have you ever heard the phrase respect there decision? There are plenty of tournaments to watch and play.

Anyway I am over it! I come to this site to learn and discuss tennis. Not this BS. I should have never responded. You cant change people. Thats why discrimination does exist.

Chadwixx
02-27-2009, 01:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdFR_76oI7I&feature=related



Yourblackworld.com, wonder if they have any other motivations, lol.

"We were waiting for the whole time and about 15mins before the match start they announced she pulled out.. "

If she withdrew before the people in the stands showed up, the fans would of gotten a refund and she wouldnt of been paid for losing in the semi's.

"Regardless of racism or not, they didn't have to boo her as she was coming in to watch the match."

You pay $200 per ticket, drive to the tournament only to find out she never intended to play the match. See if you boo or not, lol.

Btw she cited an injury that cannot be proven without having an mri (and mri's dont always show it).

The only bigger "lol" excuse i can remember is when agassi said he hurt his toe sleeping because they didnt give him the night match.

I cant stand tournaments that have the williams sisters in it. The announcers always talk about them even if they arent playing and they show their matches constantly (even when a better one is on). Real tennis fans (not people who only started watching because of a players skin color) should be very happy we get a tournament where they arent playing.

saram
02-27-2009, 01:10 PM
If they think that they must have a reason? Have you walked in there shoes to know why they feel that way? No, Have you ever heard the phrase respect there decision? There are plenty of tournaments to watch and play.

Anyway I am over it! I come to this site to learn and discuss tennis. Not this BS. I should have never responded. You cant change people. Thats why discrimination does exist.

You know, Monfils and Tsonga are just as black as Richard, Venus, and Serena--yet never seem to have these issues surrounding them, do they? Never heard Noah with troubles, matter of fact--never hear anything inclusive to racism with anyone on tour outside of the Williams family.

If they would go play the darn tournament--maybe the past would be left in the dark and behind us.

But no...

The prima donna's continually resurrect this every single year that IW comes around. I'm sure we'll hear Richard spout off somewhere in the next week or so....

THUNDERVOLLEY
02-27-2009, 01:33 PM
God bless Indian Wells! I'd love to get rid of them and their mentally ******** parents in the other tournaments too. Especially in Europe. These two uglies spoilt two of my Wimbledons and nearly ruined one RG.

It is rare to read a post so devoid of rationality..but the other implications are clear.

Get over it. The sisters are already legends in the sport and all of the euro-whining in the world will not change that fact.

thalivest
02-27-2009, 01:36 PM
What is the big deal. They dont play alot of the tournaments anyway so it isnt something new. Indian Wells are lucky. They atleast know the Williams wont play for them rather than all the others they pull out 1 or 2 days before.

I disagree the womens tour would be better without the Williams though. They are the only things holding up the current sack of turd that is the womens tour. The only players any kind of combination of real talent or competitive toughness (eg- not Kuznetsova) left.

THUNDERVOLLEY
02-27-2009, 01:55 PM
You know, Monfils and Tsonga are just as black as Richard, Venus, and Serena--yet never seem to have these issues surrounding them,

The men's game never suffered from the obsessive "precious white girl" syndrome championed by the Tracy Austins of the world. Instead of celebrating a true landmark and revolution in tennis (a sport which sees so few), racist "fans" and clearly biased commentators entered overdrive attempting to tear down two women largely responsible for keeping the critics' deservedly suffering sport alive to many far beyond tennis fans alone.

Few on the global scale ever gave a rat's *** about Henin and her countrywoman lapdog, the Serbians, the "--evas," Davenport, or most you can name. In other words, on the global scale of true sports importance, everyone knows a Kobe, or LeBron, Manning or Armstrong--and yes, the Williams sisters, but the majority of the remaining oh-so celebrated women may as well be faceless strangers on the street.

Yet two women who (from the looks of things) will be the last great landmark/revolution in women's tennis for some time to come--are routinely attacked--usually with race at the heart of the matter.

All of the tarts, regional experiments and ponytail-wearing little girls that can be cranked out do nothing for the sport. Fitting. The critics resent true champions, but desire losers and headcases...so that is exactly what they get.

NamRanger
02-27-2009, 02:34 PM
I think the crowd was ****ed off at both.. Venus & Richard.. If she was injured, or illness and etc she should not show up and act she was fine.. We were waiting for the whole time and about 15mins before the match start they announced she pulled out.. If you were there, you would be very ****ed off too..


Injuries are part of the sport. It happens. However, you shouldn't get booed because you had to pull out. I can understand people were upset because they lost their money essentially, but that isn't incentive to go boo a player because of that. Players think for their health first, than about other people.

WildVolley
02-27-2009, 02:41 PM
The crowd did seem to be behaving inappropriately, but as usual, Richard Williams made things worse. He's caused a lot of trouble for his daughters because he's a racist jerk who goes out of his way to give interviews about how he hates white people and the world is conspiring against his family. Also, he's a compulsive liar who is always trying to game his daughter's opponents by making up stories about injuries or something else.

I certainly can't speak for the 2001 tournament, but when I was at Indian Wells last year it didn't seem like a klan rally to me.

It does get a little absurd when rich, world famous, and admired athletes talk about how horribly they've been mistreated. And I say this even recalling the time that Serena was cheated out of a match at the US Open because of terrible line calls.

janipyt05
02-27-2009, 02:55 PM
wowow.. that's a big statement there.. People talks the truth, speaks the truth then someone call racist or sexist.. I just can't watch WTA match so I am a sexist?? WTA tour is a joke right now compare to 10 years ago.. so am I a sexist? They are asking equal pay but their matches just bore to death and one sided.. so if I say no EQUAL PAY I am a sexist? we have to be honest to ourselves and realize the problem.. To me, EQUAL PAY is sexist.. They use the radical card to get equal pay.. The men work their butt off and barely made any $$.. They just play a 50mins match Grand Slam final and they made equal.. That's SEXIST to me..

You don't have to watch the WTA but not all matches are boring and not all matches are 1 sided. Men matches can and are just as boring and just as one sided. WTA will get back on track its just more stellar players not one hit wonders here for a season and gone the next.

On another note as far as the Williams sisters they have every right to not go back to a place where they are racial abused by the crowd. They may well have forgiven but they will never forget, there is enough players that can fill their spot, it is for them something big that can not be asked to just forget about it, or its been long enough, its all easy to say if you have never face with such hatred.

Equal pay is another thing, it has been 30 odd years in the makaing it was not sudden, for me its not just about length of matches because some mens matche can be just as short. Women travel just as far and wide, train just as hard, give just as much to the game and work just as hard as the men and for those reasons they deserve to be paid the same. Not all top jobs in this world have the same conditions and yet there is equal pay. It is rather short sighted to just think because they play less sets they deserve less money when playing is not the only thing that goes into being a tennis player and to say men work their butts off is again short sighted what makes you think women do not work their butts off to get to the top of the game and stay their.

DunlopDood
02-27-2009, 03:13 PM
Good riddance, this makes watching women's tennis that much more bearable.

janipyt05
02-27-2009, 03:25 PM
Good riddance, this makes watching women's tennis that much more bearable.

More like it give those inconsistent wanna bes a chance to shine where they would have no way.

You smirk at the williams who have slams in singles and doubles and mixed doubles yeah ok. Funny how you think watching girls with no slams, carbon copy tennis style of the williams go at it.

Love40
02-27-2009, 05:26 PM
...quality tennis...

Quality tennis??? Only if you like to listen to grunts that rival jet engines and every single shot hit as hard as can be hit. Zero finesse, zero style, zero sportsmanship (Serena anyway, Venus is better).

CyBorg
02-27-2009, 05:28 PM
I'm not sure how any of you(even if you were there) could know for sure that there weren't any racial comments made in 2001 Indian Wells. One or 2 idiots could have said something that Serena, Venus, or Richard heard. Often in charged situations at sporting events (where everyone is screaming, etc) 1 or 2 fans can get away with saying some pretty foul stuff(I've heard it at NBA/MLB games personally). So 1 or 2 racist fans combined with an american crowd that is 99% against you, an american (seriously I've been to davis cup matches in the US where the crowds weren't 1/4 as hostile as this to the away team), & I understand why you would want to take a pass on this event forever(& not necessarily just because you weren't treated well, imagine how annoying the press would be with her if she played? it wouldn't be possible for her to 'just move on' they wouldn't let her, every damn press conference would begin with, 'so in 2001...')

and lets not forget the racist fan ejected at key biscayne in 2007, this isn't all just 'imagined racism' from the williams family:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdFR_76oI7I&feature=related



yeah, usually in sports where you are actually allowed to make noise during the game. In tennis? not so much.


and going back to the 'reason' the crowd was upset. ok, so venus withdrew minutes before her scheduled semi with serena(which I agree was not cool)

but do you realize the final wasn't played until 2 days later? with a different crowd that was there that night for the cancelled semi? do any of you attend tennis events? its not like the same crowd is present for every session.

I thought it was strange that the hostility was so intense even though it was 2 days later, with many people that weren't affected by the cancelled semi at all. It was sort of disturbing to see.

You are way off.

Fans are not allowed to boo in tennis? According to who? During the point, yes.

I agree that the fans could and probably should have been classier. The point is that the Williamses are crying racism, which is frankly something far less classy than what a select portion of those fans (probably less than 5% of the whole) did.

thalivest
02-27-2009, 05:29 PM
Quality tennis??? Only if you like to listen to grunts that rival jet engines and every single shot hit as hard as can be hit. Zero finesse, zero style, zero sportsmanship (Serena anyway, Venus is better).

Yet the other women today do basically the same thing except without the strong serves, with even more errors, and without 20% the mental strength.

saram
02-27-2009, 06:11 PM
You don't have to watch the WTA but not all matches are boring and not all matches are 1 sided. Men matches can and are just as boring and just as one sided. WTA will get back on track its just more stellar players not one hit wonders here for a season and gone the next.

On another note as far as the Williams sisters they have every right to not go back to a place where they are racial abused by the crowd. They may well have forgiven but they will never forget, there is enough players that can fill their spot, it is for them something big that can not be asked to just forget about it, or its been long enough, its all easy to say if you have never face with such hatred.

Equal pay is another thing, it has been 30 odd years in the makaing it was not sudden, for me its not just about length of matches because some mens matche can be just as short. Women travel just as far and wide, train just as hard, give just as much to the game and work just as hard as the men and for those reasons they deserve to be paid the same. Not all top jobs in this world have the same conditions and yet there is equal pay. It is rather short sighted to just think because they play less sets they deserve less money when playing is not the only thing that goes into being a tennis player and to say men work their butts off is again short sighted what makes you think women do not work their butts off to get to the top of the game and stay their.

I have heard of NOTHING racial towards or about the Williams sisters or anything surrounding the Williams sisters except on a few occasions. And those occasions are when Richard opens his fat mouth and every year when IW comes around and they boycott the event and we speak of it again.

I think Venus and Serena are the best two players on tour over the last four years--but every time they (or their father) opens their mouth, it is about MLK, Malcom X, Obama, blacks and equality--this or that or how the world was against us. I'm sorry--the story is old and trying.

Half of my friends are minorities--yet none of them carry a trump card around and pull it out of their arses every chance they get--they just carry on and live as everyone else.

egn
02-27-2009, 06:54 PM
God bless Indian Wells! I'd love to get rid of them and their mentally ******** parents in the other tournaments too. Especially in Europe. These two uglies spoilt two of my Wimbledons and nearly ruined one RG.

Okay wow you are an ***. Have you looked at some of those other tennis players if you are going to call the williams sisters uglies look at a lot of the other ones cause they are definitely worse looking no offense. Hope they spoil all your slams this year then maybe you will stop watching tennis and we can get rid of you from these forums.

Truer words were never posted.

The Williams Sisters are the scourge of the WTA. The Association, tennis and the sports world would be ten times the better if they never again stepped foot on a tennis court.

Really. Cause that would leave the talent field at zero. Players ranked 120 would win slams as the top is full of chokers who would go nowhere. You would have something like 10 one slam wonders and Jankovic would still come up slamless because she is inconsistent. The only thing that actually makes the field not completely talentless is the Williams Sisters. Serena has an ego but no offense what has Venus really done. Let their asses boycott their stupid little tournament and get over it. Seriously if they left the sport WTA would die and frankly I would not watch it. Safina is not that good, Jankovic plays this bland game, Ivanovic has no variety, the rest of the top is just baseline bashers who suck at it and Sharapova is good but is injured. If they left one of two would happen you get as I said 10 one slam wonders till talent comes or Sharapova wins 3 out of 4 slams for like 3 years in a row and becomes a god if she becomes healthy.

TheTruth
02-28-2009, 06:49 AM
I'm personally not a fan of the Williams sisters. They're great players for sure, hit very hard, but it's just not my preferred style. I don't like some of their remarks either. They seem kinda arrogant sometimes for me. But fir many reasons they're very important to the sport. With regards to that incident, I do think it had a racial and gender tone. Racism is not an objective and obvious issue as many would think. Here in Brazil it's much more subliminar, but nonetheless not less relevant. People may be racist or xenophobic without knowing. It may be part of the common sense of a certain group of people, so you don't even contest it. I think Indian Wells' was a racial incident because it just doesn't make sense to boo and say improper things to the Williams family if you know Venus had to retire due to wrist problems. And the problem is that had she entered the match and lost easily, maybe the situation wouldn't happen (at least not so intensely), but certainly many would say it was arranged as a conspiracy for Serena to win (what wouldn't be fair at all in this case). So why did Venus had to play if she just couldn't? Would the fans react the same way if the same event happened with, let me say, the Bryan brothers? Anyway, I think is defensable to say it wasn't a racial stuff, but I'm deeply sorry for those that not only don't criticize what happened that day but support it and wish the "withdraw from tennis". People who say that just can't blame the French crowd for being inelegant or criticize the Dubai tournament for not allowing Sharah Peer to play on it. You just can't mix up sports with personal, politics, ethnic, religious issues. This (sport) is the place for the embracement of the alterity, not for segregation. It's just not possible to say with conviction that anyone would do different if one were treated like the Williams' sisters were that day.

Great post, especially your comments about racism. I had to bold this part, because it's so true.

I was in the stands when Andy Roddick pulled out at the last minute in the Cincinnati Masters last year. We were sitting in the hot sun waiting for the match when a lucky loser was summoned to play Kohlschreiber (I think) at the last minute.

The crowd's reaction? Nothing. Things happen.

To jump on a young girl and boo her to that extent is inexcusable. The William Sisters don't need IW, but conversely, the entire WTA needs the Williams Sisters.

Without the Williams Sisters who's left on the WTA?

Jankovic? Who, (as much as I love her) hasn't won a slam.

Ivanovic? Who, having won her maiden slam promptly goes on a walkabout ever since.

Sharapova? Who's constant injuries make her a part-time player?

Mauresmo, who only now seems to be coming out of her two year slump.s

Lindsay, who has better things to do like making babies with her husband.

Clijsters, who see Lindsay

Hingis, who doesn't need money and wants to enjoy her life off the court.

So, if not for the William Sisters who people bash incessantly, what does the WTA really have to offer right now?

TheTruth
02-28-2009, 06:53 AM
That is really the bottom line. And as far as tendinitis goes, a lot of folks seem to be willing to swallow the Fed mono story and the Fed back pain story (Peter Bodo seems to be the first guy to cast suspicion on these stories in public). Why not extend the same benefit of doubt to Venus?

They were young girls then, and instead of supporting their countrywomen, the crowd showed its true "colors." No one should be forced to put up with that kind of mob behavior, regardless of the excuses.

This may be a year for healing, but first the affected party must agree. It is not for others who were not affected at all to declare that healing must begin.

And re: Richard Williams, his comments on Chrissie were vicious considering that she never hurt them and on the contrary, always supported them and still does.

Intelligent, logical, and rational post. There should be no excuse for mob type behavior, and anyone who excuses it...well.

TheTruth
02-28-2009, 06:56 AM
1st step in ending racism or any problem is admitting there is a problem... Racism is alive and well in the U.S. I can speak from past experiences. If you are not a minority or have been a victim of it you wouldnt know. Those Morons that were alive in the 50s making blacks sit in the back of the bus etc..are still around, just a bit older and most of those idiots were allowed to have children. So what do you have, little bigots that are grown today.
Dont give me the Obama is president so we cant possibly have racism here in the good ol' USA speech. Guess who has had the most death threats in the time he has held office??? I wonder who that is? And to anyone who is about to tell me if I dont like it here then I should leave. I love the US but, we are not perfect.
If they dont want to play thats there decision! If they get fined they obviously dont care. If you are willing to stand for something then, you pay the consequences. Thats what most people arent strong enough to do. We need more people who are willing to stand up for what they think is right! More power to them.

Great post!

TheTruth
02-28-2009, 07:02 AM
You know, Monfils and Tsonga are just as black as Richard, Venus, and Serena--yet never seem to have these issues surrounding them, do they? Never heard Noah with troubles, matter of fact--never hear anything inclusive to racism with anyone on tour outside of the Williams family.

If they would go play the darn tournament--maybe the past would be left in the dark and behind us.

But no...

The prima donna's continually resurrect this every single year that IW comes around. I'm sure we'll hear Richard spout off somewhere in the next week or so....

Monfils and Tsonga are French and therefore not under America's cultural bias.

Blake is mixed, black and white and also not in the William's shoes.

Please let me know if you're African-American, I think that makes a world of difference.

TheTruth
02-28-2009, 07:04 AM
The men's game never suffered from the obsessive "precious white girl" syndrome championed by the Tracy Austins of the world. Instead of celebrating a true landmark and revolution in tennis (a sport which sees so few), racist "fans" and clearly biased commentators entered overdrive attempting to tear down two women largely responsible for keeping the critics' deservedly suffering sport alive to many far beyond tennis fans alone.

Few on the global scale ever gave a rat's *** about Henin and her countrywoman lapdog, the Serbians, the "--evas," Davenport, or most you can name. In other words, on the global scale of true sports importance, everyone knows a Kobe, or LeBron, Manning or Armstrong--and yes, the Williams sisters, but the majority of the remaining oh-so celebrated women may as well be faceless strangers on the street.

Yet two women who (from the looks of things) will be the last great landmark/revolution in women's tennis for some time to come--are routinely attacked--usually with race at the heart of the matter.

All of the tarts, regional experiments and ponytail-wearing little girls that can be cranked out do nothing for the sport. Fitting. The critics resent true champions, but desire losers and headcases...so that is exactly what they get.

Great and valid posts.

cucio
02-28-2009, 08:00 AM
Few on the global scale ever gave a rat's *** about Henin and her countrywoman lapdog, the Serbians, the "--evas," Davenport, or most you can name. In other words, on the global scale of true sports importance, everyone knows a Kobe, or LeBron, Manning or Armstrong--and yes, the Williams sisters, but the majority of the remaining oh-so celebrated women may as well be faceless strangers on the street.


Who TF is Manning? I guess some baseball or NFL star. Sorry, the real global scale doesn't give a rat's ***. I know Kobe and Armstrong. LeBron rings a bell as an NBA player, but I don't know in which team he plays or how does he look like. It will come to you as a surprise, but global comes from globe, and the USA is just 9.83 million kmē out of the total 510 kmē. Do you know Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi? Ethnocentrism anyone?

Underhand
02-28-2009, 08:06 AM
Few on the global scale ever gave a rat's *** about Henin and her countrywoman lapdog, the Serbians, the "--evas," Davenport, or most you can name. In other words, on the global scale of true sports importance, everyone knows a Kobe, or LeBron, Manning or Armstrong--and yes, the Williams sisters, but the majority of the remaining oh-so celebrated women may as well be faceless strangers on the street.

Global scale = East Coast to West Coast? Like the NFL "World" Championship? LOL

THUNDERVOLLEY
02-28-2009, 08:16 AM
Who TF is Manning? I guess some baseball or NFL star. Sorry, the real global scale doesn't give a rat's ***. I know Kobe and Armstrong. LeBron rings a bell as an NBA player, but I don't know in which team he plays or how does he look like. It will come to you as a surprise, but global comes from globe, and the USA is just 9.83 million kmē out of the total 510 kmē. Do you know Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi? Ethnocentrism anyone?

Your poor observation:

It will come to you as a surprise, but global comes from globe, and the USA is just 9.83 million kmē out of the total 510 kmē

...matters not, as American athletes--like the American film industry and American music industry is reponsible for the vast majority of the most recognized, global cultural icons. To deny this decades-long fact is living in a defensive fantasy land of your own making.

Again, Henin, , Hingis, the Serbians, and the majority of tennis players (incuding fellow American Davenport) are not known to any significant degree outside of tennis circles--the polar opposite of other sports stars listed earlier...which also includes the Williams sisters.

Accept it, or remain bitter.

The next point:

Ethnocentrism anyone?

Get your accusations right. Your limp charge is one of nationalism not ethnocentric behavior. Moreover, the fact you recognize the athletes I mention at all only proves my point.

gj011
02-28-2009, 08:38 AM
Few on the global scale ever gave a rat's *** about Henin and her countrywoman lapdog, the Serbians, the "--evas," Davenport, or most you can name. In other words, on the global scale of true sports importance, everyone knows a Kobe, or LeBron, Manning or Armstrong--and yes, the Williams sisters, but the majority of the remaining oh-so celebrated women may as well be faceless strangers on the street.

USA is not the whole world and you should not make "global scale" claims when you talk about who is popular in the US.

I am sure more people globally know and care about top tennis women than people on your list. No one in the rest of the world cares about Manning at all. NBA lost a lots of its charm from the 80's and 90's. So Kobe and especially LeBron are not massively popular global icons like Jordan, Magic and Bird were then.`
Also I assume you are talking about Lance Armstrong. Cycling is way way less popular than tennis.

All of the tarts, regional experiments and ponytail-wearing little girls that can be cranked out do nothing for the sport. Fitting. The critics resent true champions, but desire losers and headcases...so that is exactly what they get.

I am sorry but these are borderline racial remarks. Why are other girls "tarts" and why are "ponytail-wearing little girls" less worthy than others. :shock:

gj011
02-28-2009, 08:56 AM
Who TF is Manning? I guess some baseball or NFL star. Sorry, the real global scale doesn't give a rat's ***. I know Kobe and Armstrong. LeBron rings a bell as an NBA player, but I don't know in which team he plays or how does he look like. It will come to you as a surprise, but global comes from globe, and the USA is just 9.83 million kmē out of the total 510 kmē. Do you know Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi? Ethnocentrism anyone?

Great post, didnt see that you already answered.

flying24
02-28-2009, 09:01 AM
I actually have to agree with gj011 here. It is very short sighted to just assume people that are crossover stars in the U.S are also globally. Also the NBA today doesnt even come close to the popularity it had in the 80s and 90s, even in North America.

THUNDERVOLLEY
02-28-2009, 09:13 AM
USA is not the whole world and you should not make "global scale" claims when you talk about who is popular in the US.

I am sure more people globally know and care about top tennis women than people on your list.

Prove it. You cannot. The names I list are known globally and enjoy high media and brand pesense in innumerable countries. Outside of tennis circles, who will recognize Henin? Mauresmo? Jankovic? They are not now, nor will they ever be cultural icons.


I am sorry but these are borderline racial remarks. Why are other girls "tarts" and why are "ponytail-wearing little girls" less worthy than others. :shock:

Buy a clue; there' nothing racial about the statement--which describes the desires of the Tracy Austins of the world--never shy about stating their love for certain kind females, while incessantly blasting the sisters (without question, the greatest players of 2 generations) for no justified reason, and employ double standards when "forgetting" the "sins" of other players, which leaves only one, possible motivation for the continued hostility.

If race is an issue, it is squarely in the minds of the critics.

NamRanger
02-28-2009, 09:17 AM
USA is not the whole world and you should not make "global scale" claims when you talk about who is popular in the US.

I am sure more people globally know and care about top tennis women than people on your list. No one in the rest of the world cares about Manning at all. NBA lost a lots of its charm from the 80's and 90's. So Kobe and especially LeBron are not massively popular global icons like Jordan, Magic and Bird were then.`
Also I assume you are talking about Lance Armstrong. Cycling is way way less popular than tennis.



I am sorry but these are borderline racial remarks. Why are other girls "tarts" and why are "ponytail-wearing little girls" less worthy than others. :shock:



Kobe and LeBron are infinitely popular more than any women's tennis player, with the exception of maybe Sharapova (and it's not because of her tennis). When they came to the Olympics, they were instantly mobbed by the Chinese due to their popularity. You don't know jack diddly squat about basketball, so you shouldn't be talking.

NamRanger
02-28-2009, 09:17 AM
I actually have to agree with gj011 here. It is very short sighted to just assume people that are crossover stars in the U.S are also globally. Also the NBA today doesnt even come close to the popularity it had in the 80s and 90s, even in North America.


You must have missed the Olympics than, because I'm pretty sure all the Chinese people there knew who Kobe and LeBron were.

THUNDERVOLLEY
02-28-2009, 09:19 AM
NamRanger is correct; i've been to Japan and Australia, amongst other countries, and the Willams sisters are known in neary every corner--just as Kobe and LeBron are....Henin, the Serbians and 99% of the Russians are not...though some fans are so defensive, they cannot come to grips with reality, and accept how important the sisters are to this troubled sport.

Wishing they would go away is wishing women's tennis is delivered a quick death.

380pistol
02-28-2009, 09:20 AM
Truer words were never posted.

The Williams Sisters are the scourge of the WTA. The Association, tennis and the sports world would be ten times the better if they never again stepped foot on a tennis court.

The fact that you call yourself "Objective Danny" with a picture of George W. Bush in your avatar says it all.

flying24
02-28-2009, 09:20 AM
Kobe and LeBron are infinitely popular more than any women's tennis player, with the exception of maybe Sharapova (and it's not because of her tennis). When they came to the Olympics, they were instantly mobbed by the Chinese due to their popularity. You don't know jack diddly squat about basketball, so you shouldn't be talking.

Well Maria has won 3 majors, so in fairness she isnt exactly a reincarnation of Kournikova. :) Still her hype and popularity far exceeds the second tier great player she is.

Kobe and LeBron are definitely very popular, but still not as popular as the top stars of the 80s and 90s. They are the best and most marketable of a current NBA field that isnt quite what it was in the past.

380pistol
02-28-2009, 09:24 AM
he called out both. He called out roddick which is completely understandable but then he called out the crowd which was not cool at all. djokovics exact words " Well, I know they are already against me because they think I am faking" He lost alot of his fans in the stadium who were cheering for him when he won the match. Bottom line, I dont think that the booing incident with djokovic was anything racial. He would not have been booed if he didnt accuse the crowd. I guess we can agree to disagree.

Djokovic did call out the crowd after the match. If he had beef with Roddick, then deal with Roddick. He said some backhanded remarks to the crowd, when it was was Andy (and the Media) who were on him for faking injuries, not the crowd.

thalivest
02-28-2009, 09:24 AM
Buy a clue; there' nothing racial about the statement--which describes the desires of the Tracy Austins of the world--never shy about stating their love for certain kind females, while incessantly blasting the sisters (without question, the greatest players of 2 generations) for no justified reason

1. LOL at your unquestionably greatest players of 2 generations comment. Venus is not even the 2nd best player of her own generation at the moment. Justine Henin even retiring at 25 has currently achieved more overall than Venus has. The generation before this one featured Steffi Graf who cant even see the vastly inferior Williams sisters outside her own rear view mirror, as well as Monica Seles who has only 1 fewer major than Serena and 2 more than Venus while having her career basically ended at only 19 by a knife almost to her spine.

2. Tracy Austin is a notorious Williams *** kisser if anything.

380pistol
02-28-2009, 09:28 AM
Regardless of racism or not, they didn't have to boo her as she was coming in to watch the match. Richard Williams did step over the line, but so did the crowd at IW also.

I can't speak on whether it was racially charged or not, as I don't know the entire story, I know Venus pulled out late, Richard claims a fan (or someone) said something racist towards him, etc.

But as far as booing that's part of the territory. People get booed way worse than that. Ask Orel Hershiser the things that were being said about him in the playoffs against the Mets years back. I'm not saying the crowd was right or wrong(again I don't haveall the info), but Richard should not be doing things, or adding to it, making it worse for his daughters. There are times when Venus and Serena come under scrutiny for things Richard says and does.

THUNDERVOLLEY
02-28-2009, 09:31 AM
1. LOL at your unquestionably greatest 2 players of 2 generations comment. Venus is not even the 2nd best player of her own generation at the moment. Justine Henin even retiring at 25 has currently achieved more overall than Venus has. The generation before this one featured Steffi Graf who cant even see the vastly inferior Williams sisters outside her own rear view mirror, as well as Monica Seles who has only 1 fewer major than Serena and 2 more than Venus while having her career basically ended at only 19 by a knife almost to her spine.

2. Tracy Austin is a notorious Williams *** kisser if anything.

Get your facts straight...if at all possible.

Sharapova, Vaidisova, the Serbians, Henin, Myskina, et al are not officially considered part of the same generation which introduced Davenport, Hingis and others, rendering your response completely pointless.

Tracy Austin despises the sisters--universally known and in recent history, evident by her MSN hack job which was removed due to the openly corrosive nature of her comments (including a morally bankrupt stab about the sisters' lives in relation to their sister's murder).

skip1969
02-28-2009, 09:35 AM
i don't know why we get into these arguments about race? the issues are far too complex and layered to tackle on this board. i am not implying that posters are too ignorant to express opinions, only that we don't get anywhere.

i don't think anyone is under the impression that racism does not exist in the united states. but to paint everyone with a broad brush only serves to diminish the validity of the problem. and to accuse people indiscriminately only serves to jeopardize your own credibility. the classic case of the boy who cried 'wolf.'

i don't know (or particularly care) what actually took place at iw in 2001. if the williams sisters choose to boycott the event, it's their prerogative. but in my opinion, to punish all fans at that event . . . year after year . . . for the actions of a few does nothing to instruct or lead or build a bridge.

i went to italy once, and while walking through the streets of florence i came across a couple of italian guys who followed me and made some comments about the color of my skin. but i am not foolish enough to think that all italians are cut from the same cloth.

gj011
02-28-2009, 09:36 AM
Kobe and LeBron are infinitely popular more than any women's tennis player, with the exception of maybe Sharapova (and it's not because of her tennis). When they came to the Olympics, they were instantly mobbed by the Chinese due to their popularity. You don't know jack diddly squat about basketball, so you shouldn't be talking.

LOL I should just remind you who won the real Basketball World Championship in Indianapolis in 2002. And which country has the most of them. I know lots about Basketball which is extremely popular in Serbia, and I am telling you again, not that many people care about NBA globally any more.

I can give you that Kobe is probably more popular, but Manning no way.

380pistol
02-28-2009, 09:36 AM
You know, Monfils and Tsonga are just as black as Richard, Venus, and Serena--yet never seem to have these issues surrounding them, do they? Never heard Noah with troubles, matter of fact--never hear anything inclusive to racism with anyone on tour outside of the Williams family.

If they would go play the darn tournament--maybe the past would be left in the dark and behind us.

But no...

The prima donna's continually resurrect this every single year that IW comes around. I'm sure we'll hear Richard spout off somewhere in the next week or so....

So because you never heard Noah with any racial issues means it never happened to him?!? And cuz Monfils and Tsonga have not ecountered any racist issues, then that means it couldn't have happened to Venus or Serena???

I reall don't get what you're trying to convey. They don't ressurect the issue. What about people giving the WS the platform to speak. If they skipped the tournamen (now for what 7-8 years), and people just got on with business as usual, would we be having this discussion???

380pistol
02-28-2009, 09:41 AM
Buy a clue; there' nothing racial about the statement--which describes the desires of the Tracy Austins of the world--never shy about stating their love for certain kind females, while incessantly blasting the sisters (without question, the greatest players of 2 generations) for no justified reason, and employ double standards when "forgetting" the "sins" of other players, which leaves only one, possible motivation for the continued hostility.

If race is an issue, it is squarely in the minds of the critics.

I just wat to see someone address this.

thalivest
02-28-2009, 09:42 AM
LOL I should just remind you who won the real Basketball World Championship in Indianapolis in 2002. And which country has the most of them. I know lots about Basketball which is extremely popular in Serbia, and I am telling you again, not that many people care about NBA globally any more.

I can give you that Kobe is probably more popular, but Manning no way.

You didnt address what NamRanger said though. If those aforementioned NBA stars are not extremely popular globally why were they instantly mobbed and bombarded by a horde of excitable fans in Beijing upon their arrivals, and sought out for autographs and attention their whole time there basically.

380pistol
02-28-2009, 09:43 AM
1st step in ending racism or any problem is admitting there is a problem... Racism is alive and well in the U.S. I can speak from past experiences. If you are not a minority or have been a victim of it you wouldnt know. Those Morons that were alive in the 50s making blacks sit in the back of the bus etc..are still around, just a bit older and most of those idiots were allowed to have children. So what do you have, little bigots that are grown today.
Dont give me the Obama is president so we cant possibly have racism here in the good ol' USA speech. Guess who has had the most death threats in the time he has held office??? I wonder who that is? And to anyone who is about to tell me if I dont like it here then I should leave. I love the US but, we are not perfect.
If they dont want to play thats there decision! If they get fined they obviously dont care. If you are willing to stand for something then, you pay the consequences. Thats what most people arent strong enough to do. We need more people who are willing to stand up for what they think is right! More power to them.

Great post!

Seconded!!!!!!!!!!

NamRanger
02-28-2009, 09:46 AM
You didnt address what NamRanger said though. If those aforementioned NBA stars are not extremely popular globally why were they instantly mobbed and bombarded by a horde of excitable fans in Beijing upon their arrivals, and sought out for autographs and attention their whole time there basically.


It's ok, his argument just got blown up so he's trying to pull the Nadal_Freak 2 post jump tactic to get off topic.

NamRanger
02-28-2009, 09:49 AM
Well Maria has won 3 majors, so in fairness she isnt exactly a reincarnation of Kournikova. :) Still her hype and popularity far exceeds the second tier great player she is.

Kobe and LeBron are definitely very popular, but still not as popular as the top stars of the 80s and 90s. They are the best and most marketable of a current NBA field that isnt quite what it was in the past.


80s and 90s was the heyday of basketball internationally. However, to say that Kobe and LeBron are not popular internationally, is just plain out wrong. Because truth is, they are. They play a flashier game, and appeal to a larger audience than their other foreign counterparts.

NamRanger
02-28-2009, 09:50 AM
LOL I should just remind you who won the real Basketball World Championship in Indianapolis in 2002. And which country has the most of them. I know lots about Basketball which is extremely popular in Serbia, and I am telling you again, not that many people care about NBA globally any more.

I can give you that Kobe is probably more popular, but Manning no way.



So Olympics Basketball doesn't count for anything? Sure, the USA didn't win in 2002, but they played like crap as usual for most of the decade in international events. They got their act together for the Olympics and pretty much dominated most of the way.



Wait, where was Serbia again? Damn, I don't even remember!

flying24
02-28-2009, 09:52 AM
80s and 90s was the heyday of basketball internationally. However, to say that Kobe and LeBron are not popular internationally, is just plain out wrong. Because truth is, they are. They play a flashier game, and appeal to a larger audience than their other foreign counterparts.

Well I agree there. Kobe and LeBron are undoubtably very popular even overseas. Far moreso than any WTA player outside Maria and the 2 Williams (Henin was a great player of course but she was never a star outside of the sport of tennis) and even moreso than Maria and the 2 Williams in fact. I would hope nobody is suggesting Jankovic or Safina come anywhere near the global popularity of Kobe and LeBron, ROTFL!

gj011
02-28-2009, 09:54 AM
It's ok, his argument just got blown up so he's trying to pull the Nadal_Freak 2 post jump tactic to get off topic.

LOL. There was no need to address that. Djokovic and Ivanovic were also mobbed on the Olympics, like many other less or more known stars.

grafrules
02-28-2009, 09:58 AM
Djokovic and Ivanovic were also mobbed on the Olympics

by whom, the mosquitoes? :)

gj011
02-28-2009, 10:04 AM
80s and 90s was the heyday of basketball internationally. However, to say that Kobe and LeBron are not popular internationally, is just plain out wrong. Because truth is, they are. They play a flashier game, and appeal to a larger audience than their other foreign counterparts.

Kobe yes. LeBron not so much. And the fact it that they are way below popularity that Jordan and Magic had. Somebody mentioned Ronaldo and Messi, they are heads above Kobe and LeBron.

Anyway you guys are off topic now. Thundervolley`s claims about global popularity and assuming that whover is popular in the US is popular in the rest of the world were way off marks. Especially about Manning and Armstrong.

gj011
02-28-2009, 10:06 AM
by whom, the mosquitoes? :)

Go back and read the news about Olympics instead of trying to troll without any sense.

grafrules
02-28-2009, 11:00 AM
Go back and read the news about Olympics instead of trying to troll without any sense.

Show me one article of Jelena Jankovic getting mobbed by anyone outside of Serbia. Thanks for the joke though, as I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at the sheer thought of Jankovic being mobbed by fans.

THUNDERVOLLEY
02-28-2009, 11:02 AM
I am telling you again, not that many people care about NBA globally any more.

The high-dollar international endorsements of American stars only possible due to their global popularity/visibilty laughs at your comment.

Meanwhile, Djokovic his female countrywomen draw a total blank to the average person around the world.

There are reasons...................

gj011
02-28-2009, 11:03 AM
Show me one article of Jelena Jankovic getting mobbed by anyone outside of Serbia. Thanks for the joke though, as I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at the sheer thought of Jankovic being mobbed by fans.

Still trolling. Now go back and read again my post you quoted originally.

gj011
02-28-2009, 11:06 AM
The high-dollar international endorsements of American stars only possible due to their global popularity/visibilty laughs at your comment.

Meanwhile, Djokovic his female countrywomen draw a total blank to the average person around the world.

There are reasons...................

LOL. Which international endorsements Manning gets? :roll:
Now you go back and check how much money are Rolex and Yonex paying to Ivanovic, for example.

janipyt05
02-28-2009, 11:17 AM
I have heard of NOTHING racial towards or about the Williams sisters or anything surrounding the Williams sisters except on a few occasions. And those occasions are when Richard opens his fat mouth and every year when IW comes around and they boycott the event and we speak of it again.

I think Venus and Serena are the best two players on tour over the last four years--but every time they (or their father) opens their mouth, it is about MLK, Malcom X, Obama, blacks and equality--this or that or how the world was against us. I'm sorry--the story is old and trying.

Half of my friends are minorities--yet none of them carry a trump card around and pull it out of their arses every chance they get--they just carry on and live as everyone else.

Richard Williams doesn't help himself and i won't defend him because he is wrong, but the Williams did suffer back in 2001 or there just would be no reason for them to skip the tournement. I'm not sure i agree with you that every time they open their mouth its to do with being black and what not, thats not really the problem its that fact that they are standing by not going and people should just respect that and it ends there.

I don't hear them repeating this story all the time it is the media that keeps bringing it up or they are always asked and so they respond. The story is old so yes lets move on and leave them to not going ot IW. Again i don't hear them pulling out this trump card and maybe your friends have not suffered racial abuse or not to their extent not all black/minorities as you put it suffer the same level of racial abuse and how it affects one person may not affect others in the same way. Racial abuse to any one of any colour is hard to deal with, its not easy to get through and not easy to get over.

We don't know about the unseen and unheard things that they have been through so don't be so quick to think its just about IW and it ends there.

Please be a little sensitive because this is a sensitive subject this lack of respect is what will gain you negative responses.

THUNDERVOLLEY
02-28-2009, 11:19 AM
LOL. Which international endorsements Manning gets? :roll:
Now you go back and check how much money are Rolex and Yonex paying to Ivanovic, for example.

Get this folks: here we have a guy claiming Ivanovic is some global high earner (particularly for a product not as widely purchased on average as the kind of products usually sold by the American stars which speaks volumes about the market).

Keep dreaming that the Serbians are even in the conversation of globally known athletes--or the true breakout stars of their own sport. Because the latter is so painfully not the case for them (and never will be, judging from their less-than-stellar "skills"), and is not supported by...hmm..er...FACTS, your argument is merely defensive.

...unless you really want to say that Ivanovic and Jankovic are on ANY equal standing with the Williams sisters in terms of history, success and popularity around the world.

Go on....please say that.....

grafrules
02-28-2009, 11:20 AM
Still trolling. Now go back and read again my post you quoted originally.

If there is any evidence that exists in print that this happened why are you not only able to post a link to it. I am not going to waste my time searching info on a player I dont even give a damn about, which I am pretty certain doesnt even exist. You are the one who is her fan so I am sure if there was ever any print of Jelena being "mobbed by fans" in Beijing (LOL) you would be able to show it. So either put up or shut up.

gj011
02-28-2009, 11:41 AM
If there is any evidence that exists in print that this happened why are you not only able to post a link to it. I am not going to waste my time searching info on a player I dont even give a damn about, which I am pretty certain doesnt even exist. You are the one who is her fan so I am sure if there was ever any print of Jelena being "mobbed by fans" in Beijing (LOL) you would be able to show it. So either put up or shut up.

Go back and read my post. I didn't mention Jankovic, because I didn't read anywhere about her. At the time I read about Djokovic and Ivanovic being mobbed by fans at the Olympics.

gj011
02-28-2009, 11:45 AM
Get this folks: here we have a guy claiming Ivanovic is some global high earner (particularly for a product not as widely purchased on average as the kind of products usually sold by the American stars which speaks volumes about the market).

Keep dreaming that the Serbians are even in the conversation of globally known athletes--or the true breakout stars of their own sport. Because the latter is so painfully not the case for them (and never will be, judging from their less-than-stellar "skills"), and is not supported by...hmm..er...FACTS, your argument is merely defensive.

...unless you really want to say that Ivanovic and Jankovic are on ANY equal standing with the Williams sisters in terms of history, success and popularity around the world.

Go on....please say that.....

As I said go check her contracts with Rolex and Yonex.
Anyway the hard fact is that Ivanovic and even Jankovic get more international (meaning not from the home country) endorsements than Menning, because simply no one outside US cares abut NFL and Mennng is not getting any.

THUNDERVOLLEY
02-28-2009, 12:00 PM
As I said go check her contracts with Rolex and Yonex.
Anyway the hard fact is that Ivanovic and even Jankovic get more international (meaning not from the home country) endorsements than Menning, because simply no one outside US cares abut NFL and Mennng is not getting any.

...revealing how you "forget" to make comparisons to the Willaims sisters or the others mentioned.

But i'm all ears; tell us how the Serbian women surpass the sisters in endorsements, popularity and general visibility......

jt1224x0
02-28-2009, 12:39 PM
Monfils and Tsonga are French and therefore not under America's cultural bias.

Blake is mixed, black and white and also not in the William's shoes.

Please let me know if you're African-American, I think that makes a world of difference.

I am, and the country is still as racist as 40 years ago, they(the Whites) just try to hide their racism

NamRanger
02-28-2009, 03:17 PM
Kobe yes. LeBron not so much. And the fact it that they are way below popularity that Jordan and Magic had. Somebody mentioned Ronaldo and Messi, they are heads above Kobe and LeBron.

Anyway you guys are off topic now. Thundervolley`s claims about global popularity and assuming that whover is popular in the US is popular in the rest of the world were way off marks. Especially about Manning and Armstrong.



Armstrong is not popular? Uh, what planet do you live on? I'm pretty sure winning 7 Tour De France and steroid allegations alone is enough to make Armstrong pretty damn well known around the world, let alone his incredible story of surviving cancer and coming back and having a successful cycling career.

flying24
02-28-2009, 03:42 PM
Armstrong is not popular? Uh, what planet do you live on? I'm pretty sure winning 7 Tour De France and steroid allegations alone is enough to make Armstrong pretty damn well known around the world, let alone his incredible story of surviving cancer and coming back and having a successful cycling career.

Well in fairness he has alot haters in France, but I dont know if it like that throughout Europe. Of course having alot of haters doesnt mean he doesnt also have alot of fans.

NamRanger
02-28-2009, 03:44 PM
Well in fairness he has alot haters in France, but I dont know if it like that throughout Europe. Of course having alot of haters doesnt mean he doesnt also have alot of fans.


Well, he's definitely well known across most of Europe at the very minimum. The man is an inspirational story for anyone (if you don't believe the steroid allegations of course).

gj011
02-28-2009, 03:45 PM
Armstrong is not popular? Uh, what planet do you live on? I'm pretty sure winning 7 Tour De France and steroid allegations alone is enough to make Armstrong pretty damn well known around the world, let alone his incredible story of surviving cancer and coming back and having a successful cycling career.

Armstrong is known, but as I said already cycling is way less popular worldwide than tennis.

NamRanger
02-28-2009, 03:45 PM
Armstrong is known, but as I said already cycling is way less popular worldwide than tennis.


Got numbers to prove that?

saram
02-28-2009, 03:46 PM
I am, and the country is still as racist as 40 years ago, they(the Whites) just try to hide their racism

That is so flippin' ridiculous. I rarely get offended. But to call me racist just makes me want to blow my top at you.

saram
02-28-2009, 03:47 PM
Armstrong is known, but as I said already cycling is way less popular worldwide than tennis.

Actually--cycling is more popular. Sorry to burst your bubble on that one.

gj011
02-28-2009, 03:53 PM
Actually--cycling is more popular. Sorry to burst your bubble on that one.

Got numbers to prove that?

There is simply no way that cycling is more popular. They have two big races, but RG or Wimbledon are followed and watched by way more people than Tour de France or Giro d'Italia.

NamRanger
02-28-2009, 03:58 PM
Got numbers to prove that?

There is simply no way that cycling is more popular. They have two big races, but RG or Wimbledon are followed and watched by way more people than Tour de France or Giro d'Italia.


Unless I'm mistaken, I am pretty sure tennis is one of the least popular sports out there.


http://thenextweb.com/2008/07/18/tour-de-france-channel-attracts-almost-21-million-viewers/


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7492943.stm


I'm pretty sure I just won. Tour De France nets almost 21 million viewers, while Wimbledon only netted 12.7 million viewers. And that's with Lance Armstrong gone, and the most epic final ever.

gj011
02-28-2009, 04:13 PM
Unless I'm mistaken, I am pretty sure tennis is one of the least popular sports out there.


http://thenextweb.com/2008/07/18/tour-de-france-channel-attracts-almost-21-million-viewers/


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7492943.stm


I'm pretty sure I just won. Tour De France nets almost 21 million viewers, while Wimbledon only netted 12.7 million viewers. And that's with Lance Armstrong gone, and the most epic final ever.

No you didn`t. 12.7 million viewers were watching the final in UK on BBC only, that is one in 5 people in UK. Pretty impressive.
LOL you really think that Wimbledon is watched by only 12 million viewers overall worldwide.

While 21 millions is for many days covering the race.

saram
02-28-2009, 04:15 PM
Got numbers to prove that?

There is simply no way that cycling is more popular. They have two big races, but RG or Wimbledon are followed and watched by way more people than Tour de France or Giro d'Italia.

During the mountain stages of the Tour, between 700,000 and 1,000,000 people show up in person on a daily basis. More attendance in one day than the last eight Super Bowls combined.

More people watch one stage of the Tour in the Alps than ALL visitors of any tennis major for the entire two weeks combined.

gj011
02-28-2009, 04:31 PM
During the mountain stages of the Tour, between 700,000 and 1,000,000 people show up in person on a daily basis. More attendance in one day than the last eight Super Bowls combined.

More people watch one stage of the Tour in the Alps than ALL visitors of any tennis major for the entire two weeks combined.

You can put as many people as you want on the side of the road, while tennis stadiums have limited capacity. Also how many of those supposed 1000000 are paying and how many just show up since they live close to the track which is hundreds of kilometers long for each stage.

saram
02-28-2009, 05:23 PM
You can put as many people as you want on the side of the road, while tennis stadiums have limited capacity. Also how many of those supposed 1000000 are paying and how many just show up since they live close to the track which is hundreds of kilometers long for each stage.

What does paying for viewing have anything to do with being a fan and watching the sport? It is still 1,000,000 fans watching in person on a daily basis. That is what makes the sport so darn popular.

NamRanger
02-28-2009, 06:06 PM
What does paying for viewing have anything to do with being a fan and watching the sport? It is still 1,000,000 fans watching in person on a daily basis. That is what makes the sport so darn popular.


He's twisting what a "viewer" is because he's losing. Point is, more people watching cycling still.

gj011
02-28-2009, 06:47 PM
He's twisting what a "viewer" is because he's losing. Point is, more people watching cycling still.

No you are the one who is twisting numbers. 12 millions only watch Wimbledon :roll:.

saram
02-28-2009, 08:15 PM
No you are the one who is twisting numbers. 12 millions only watch Wimbledon :roll:.

You don't think the Tour and Giro draw four times that?

gj011
02-28-2009, 09:56 PM
You don't think the Tour and Giro draw four times that?

You guys do not really pay attention. 12 millions was just a twist NamRanger tried to pull.

380pistol
02-28-2009, 10:18 PM
Buy a clue; there' nothing racial about the statement--which describes the desires of the Tracy Austins of the world--never shy about stating their love for certain kind females, while incessantly blasting the sisters (without question, the greatest players of 2 generations) for no justified reason, and employ double standards when "forgetting" the "sins" of other players, which leaves only one, possible motivation for the continued hostility.

If race is an issue, it is squarely in the minds of the critics.

I just want to see someone address this.

380pistol
02-28-2009, 10:19 PM
You know, Monfils and Tsonga are just as black as Richard, Venus, and Serena--yet never seem to have these issues surrounding them, do they? Never heard Noah with troubles, matter of fact--never hear anything inclusive to racism with anyone on tour outside of the Williams family.

If they would go play the darn tournament--maybe the past would be left in the dark and behind us.

But no...

The prima donna's continually resurrect this every single year that IW comes around. I'm sure we'll hear Richard spout off somewhere in the next week or so....

So because you never heard Noah with any racial issues means it never happened to him?!? And cuz Monfils and Tsonga have not ecountered any racist issues, then that means it couldn't have happened to Venus or Serena???

I reall don't get what you're trying to convey. They don't ressurect the issue. What about people giving the WS the platform to speak. If they skipped the tournamen (now for what 7-8 years), and people just got on with business as usual, would we be having this discussion???

THUNDERVOLLEY
03-01-2009, 05:24 AM
I just want to see someone address this.

Probably not; I pointed out (to gj011) of the two generations (Davenport, Hingis/Belgians, et al, being one, then the Sharapova/Myskina/Serbians, et al, being the other) the sisters are the greatest players with the biggest impact of women's tennis (certainly its visibility to the average person despite he sport's overall decline which says much about their status).

Of course, some will either tap dance around this with attacks on irrelevant matters:

1.Richard Williams.

2 Off-court pursuits--which other limited or no-slam wonders have but are rountinely given a free pass by Williams critics...

3. Serena's fitness--apparently not stopping her from winning slams.

....in the event the attacks are shattered (usually the case), then expect pumping up Sharapova (no significant impact on the sport other than her being the 2nd stage, post-Kournikova "tart" marketing experiment, or perhaps a certain somene will cheerlead for the Serbians' status...which is comedy writing itself anytime someone tries to use the words "great" near their names.

SempreSami
03-01-2009, 05:27 AM
So they wouldn't stand by Peer but pull out of IW over a trivial matter.

THUNDERVOLLEY
03-01-2009, 05:28 AM
And cuz Monfils and Tsonga have not ecountered any racist issues, then that means it couldn't have happened to Venus or Serena??

In the minds of some Williams haters..no, as the positive experience of another applies to everyone, thus Venus and Serena could not have faced racism at all....yeah....that really works...

mctennis
03-01-2009, 05:31 AM
Good riddance.

"ditto, ditto, ditto"

mctennis
03-01-2009, 05:41 AM
That is so flippin' ridiculous. I rarely get offended. But to call me racist just makes me want to blow my top at you.

Me too. I'm so sick and tired of everyting being "racist" if any black doewsn't get their way. if you don't like it here and it's so bad go to another country! PLEASE!!!

THUNDERVOLLEY
03-01-2009, 05:41 AM
"ditto, ditto, ditto"

....meanwhile, about 98% of this treasured field drowns in their self-made mediocrity.

Heh. Good call.

THUNDERVOLLEY
03-01-2009, 05:45 AM
Me too. I'm so sick and tired of everyting being "racist" if any black doewsn't get their way. if you don't like it here and it's so bad go to another country! PLEASE!!!

^ At last. Forever proving the argument of racism against the Williams sisters.

Few posts are so tailor-made.

KleybanovaFan
03-01-2009, 06:14 AM
Good for them. If the children of those colonist treated me like that then I would not show up again either

Its just a shame that the good people in india wont be able to see them play due to the actions of idiot visitors in their country

KleybanovaFan
03-01-2009, 06:15 AM
[QUOTE=KleybanovaFan;3173594]Good for them. If the children of those colonist treated me like that then I would not show up again either

Its just a shame that the good people of india wells wont be able to see them play due to the actions of idiot visitors in their country

gj011
03-01-2009, 07:31 AM
Probably not; I pointed out (to gj011) of the two generations (Davenport, Hingis/Belgians, et al, being one, then the Sharapova/Myskina/Serbians, et al, being the other) the sisters are the greatest players with the biggest impact of women's tennis (certainly its visibility to the average person despite he sport's overall decline which says much about their status).

Of course, some will either tap dance around this with attacks on irrelevant matters:

1.Richard Williams.

2 Off-court pursuits--which other limited or no-slam wonders have but are rountinely given a free pass by Williams critics...

3. Serena's fitness--apparently not stopping her from winning slams.

....in the event the attacks are shattered (usually the case), then expect pumping up Sharapova (no significant impact on the sport other than her being the 2nd stage, post-Kournikova "tart" marketing experiment, or perhaps a certain somene will cheerlead for the Serbians' status...which is comedy writing itself anytime someone tries to use the words "great" near their names.

Again you are using words like "tars", "lapdogs", and other derogatory remarks towards all players from Europe. Clear prejudice and bigotry from your side.
Your ignorance, lack of knowledge and hatred about anything outside US borders is astonishing and disturbing.

Fixed for you:

Thundervolley is never shy about stating his love for certain kind of players, while incessantly blasting the players from (mostly east) Europe for no justified reason, and employs double standards when "forgetting" the "sins" of sisters, which leaves only one, possible motivation for his continued hostility.

saram
03-01-2009, 07:46 AM
So because you never heard Noah with any racial issues means it never happened to him?!? And cuz Monfils and Tsonga have not ecountered any racist issues, then that means it couldn't have happened to Venus or Serena???

I reall don't get what you're trying to convey. They don't ressurect the issue. What about people giving the WS the platform to speak. If they skipped the tournamen (now for what 7-8 years), and people just got on with business as usual, would we be having this discussion???

What I am trying to convey is that of course Tsonga, Monfils, and Noah have overheard comments directly or indirectly towards them. But neither they nor their parents/coaches are going around calling Chris Evert "White trash", are they?

Look, I think Venus and Serena are two of the greats to ever play the game in women's tennis--I honestly do. And, I like Venus for a lot of reasons. But one HAS to expect that if you are allowing your camp to call Evert names like that, you and your camp is going to incur some retribution in return.

Best thing the sisters could do is show that they are above the past, enter IW and move on. Their continual/annual protest towards IW only turns off viewers, fans, sponsors, and staff at the USTA.

380pistol
03-01-2009, 08:53 AM
What I am trying to convey is that of course Tsonga, Monfils, and Noah have overheard comments directly or indirectly towards them. But neither they nor their parents/coaches are going around calling Chris Evert "White trash", are they?

Look, I think Venus and Serena are two of the greats to ever play the game in women's tennis--I honestly do. And, I like Venus for a lot of reasons. But one HAS to expect that if you are allowing your camp to call Evert names like that, you and your camp is going to incur some retribution in return.

Best thing the sisters could do is show that they are above the past, enter IW and move on. Their continual/annual protest towards IW only turns off viewers, fans, sponsors, and staff at the USTA.

At what point did I agee or condone Richard Williams comments to or about Evert?? I didn't/. I even said (in this thread) his daughters get blamed for HIS actions. HIS!!!!

But that comment you made illustrates the double standard you seem to have. On one hand Richards comments to Evert (or Austin) were racist and stereotypical... granted. But when the WS are confronted with the same, the 101 reasons to justify it. They were called "prima donna's" in this thread, for not going to a tourney where she encountered this?? Why then isn't Evert also a "prima donna"???

Again why are Venus and Serena accountable for Richards' actions??? That's like your mother killing someone and the punishment is you doing life in prison. And by you saying "allowing", how are they allowing Richard to do this?? If Richard has done something (that even I disagreed with) why are his daughters to blame?? That's asinine.

Why is the best thing for Willimas sisters to enter IW??? If they felt the encountered racism, why should they have to go back?? It mat turn off veiwers, fans, sponsors etc. But study history, from Lincoln to Roosevelt to Kennedy to King Jr. to Malcom X and many more. It wasn't popular but they made a stand. Do you think Ali should have just went to Vietnam???

Have you considered the fact that if the WS do go back, nothing may change, and whatever racism they encountered in Indian Wells will continue??? Have you considered that other cities and tournamnets (and/or their fans) will take racism lightly cuz the players will just come back anyway???

skip1969
03-01-2009, 08:56 AM
Best thing the sisters could do is show that they are above the past, enter IW and move on. Their continual/annual protest towards IW only turns off viewers, fans, sponsors, and staff at the USTA.
agreed. one need only look at the divisiveness of this thread to recognize that the incident in 2001 has gained a life of its own. what could have been an opportunity to teach, to bring attention to an issue (in a constructive way) to an certain element of tennis "fandom" (not unlike drawing attention to the hooligan element at the ao, for example) they have managed to make it all about themselves. they haven't brought the issue into the fore in a way that would make them be the standard-bearers for change. on the contrary, they have allowed the bullies to dictate to them their course of action: to boycott indian wells.

venus and serena had the power to do something to embarrass those who sought to disparage their importance as black players in our sport. but when the going got tough, they chose to run. and the real fans of the game, including their OWN fans, who would have supported them at indian wells and been in the stands to physically be shoulder to shoulder with those ignorant and hateful voices . . . who would have helped to quiet those voices . . . those faithful fans have been left to suffer.

the williams clan chose to paint all fans at that tournament with the same broad brush that ignorant folks have used to paint blacks in this country for generations. now you tell me, how productive was that?

THUNDERVOLLEY
03-01-2009, 09:31 AM
Again you are using words like "tars", "lapdogs", and other derogatory remarks towards all players from Europe. Clear prejudice and bigotry from your side.

Reading comprehension is not your friend.

..but to help you out...

1. "Lapdog" is accurate in the manner Kim bowed down to Henin, as though she was a mere practice partner. There is nothi bigoted about that word.

Learn, because your incessant displays of failure to understand plain descriptions is rather embarassing..even to observe.

2. "Tart" has absolutely nothing to do with region in relation to the marketing of certain women as a type to be objects of male lust. Once again, you stumble all over yourself attempting to make baseless charges.


Your ignorance, lack of knowledge and hatred about anything outside US borders:

...said the one-sided Serbian player cheerleader still incapable of providing solid evidence to one who not only posted information (you have yet to counter), but has travelled around the world to know which sports stars are most known and marketed.

But, in what is tradition with you, baseless accusations, defensive ranting and general nonsense has not moved any of your posts even an inch closer to reality.

Keep up the stand-up routine, guy, or cry me a river about how legendary Ivanovic is.

THUNDERVOLLEY
03-01-2009, 09:38 AM
...and the real fans of the game, including their OWN fans, who would have supported them at indian wells and been in the stands to physically be shoulder to shoulder with those ignorant and hateful voices . . . who would have helped to quiet those voices . . . those faithful fans have been left to suffer.

..but is this not advocating a sort of mob mentality--intimidate the racists?

That's not the audience's job. The tournament organizers could have cracked down on the racists in a public manner (beyond the abilities of player reps, et al), to send the right message, but the sisters ultimatelty felt it was left up to them to act on their own behalf.

jt1224x0
03-01-2009, 12:02 PM
^ At last. Forever proving the argument of racism against the Williams sisters.

Few posts are so tailor-made.

Thank You!! Like I said on my previous post some of the WHITES in this country are racist but they hide it.

skip1969
03-01-2009, 12:19 PM
..but is this not advocating a sort of mob mentality--intimidate the racists?

That's not the audience's job. The tournament organizers could have cracked down on the racists in a public manner (beyond the abilities of player reps, et al), to send the right message, but the sisters ultimatelty felt it was left up to them to act on their own behalf.
well, i'm not gonna argue about it. but i'm not talking about mob mentality or intimidation. i'm talking about the average joe getting involved. the same way fans in the stands tell other fans to be quiet during points, the same way fans point out hecklers or people who have crossed the line . . . it happens at every sporting event. i hardly think the indian wells crowd couldn't have been savvy enough to make their voices heard against the hecklers.

at a soccer match, i tried to get a few guys to chill out a little cos their 'passion' was getting out of hand. they were tossing things, throwing beer in the direction of some rival fans . . . now, i didn't mind getting beer spilled on me (cos i expect big games to get a bit messy) . . . but right in front of me was an older couple with their little grandson (i guessed). they were getting pelted. when the guys didn't respond to reason, i waved security over. i don't think that's intimidation or mob rule. it's just being reasonable.

Blinkism
03-12-2009, 01:28 AM
Hopefully the WTA penalizes the William's sisters for not attending IW!!!

They're not above the rules!

jelle v
03-12-2009, 02:41 AM
Little bit late in this discussion... but I just cannot stand how everything these days is about race. Almost everything that happens to a colored man/woman instantly has to do with racism. In my opinion one can claim legitimately that there's a lot of reversed racism these days: The white man/woman gets accused of racism because he/she said or did something to a colored man/woman.

I'm not saying there wasn't any racism involved with the crowd booing Venus and Richard Williams, maybe one or two spectators made racist remarks against Venus and Richard as they walked by, but it's idiotic to assume that the whole crowd was booing with racist motives.. clearly it had to do with Venus pulling out under the suspicion that Richard had decided it had to be that way without Venus being injured, or injured enough that she couldn't play.

I am a big fan of Serena, don't like Venus that much and don't like Richard at all, but all the controversy surrounding them has a great deal to do with themselves. The tennisworld has it's own etiquettes and clearly Serena, Venus and Richard don't exactly follow those etiquettes. That's why a lot of people don't like them, not because they are black. I for instance really do not like Richard's behavior at all, with his stupid camera all the time.. standing between all the photographers, shooting his own pictures and of course playing the race card so many times while there's no reason.

Really.. not everything that happens has to do with race..

Leublu tennis
03-12-2009, 04:10 AM
For those that didn't watch it at that time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcUcTMdn4dEHey, thanks.

Leublu tennis
03-12-2009, 04:23 AM
Most people on this website are racist and sexist that's why they can't stand the Williams sisters and the WTA. And That's why I rarely post here.Thats a ridiculous comment and, if its a sample of your posts, just go away.

cknobman
03-12-2009, 06:39 AM
Little bit late in this discussion... but I just cannot stand how everything these days is about race. Almost everything that happens to a colored man/woman instantly has to do with racism. In my opinion one can claim legitimately that there's a lot of reversed racism these days: The white man/woman gets accused of racism because he/she said or did something to a colored man/woman.

I'm not saying there wasn't any racism involved with the crowd booing Venus and Richard Williams, maybe one or two spectators made racist remarks against Venus and Richard as they walked by, but it's idiotic to assume that the whole crowd was booing with racist motives.. clearly it had to do with Venus pulling out under the suspicion that Richard had decided it had to be that way without Venus being injured, or injured enough that she couldn't play.

I am a big fan of Serena, don't like Venus that much and don't like Richard at all, but all the controversy surrounding them has a great deal to do with themselves. The tennisworld has it's own etiquettes and clearly Serena, Venus and Richard don't exactly follow those etiquettes. That's why a lot of people don't like them, not because they are black. I for instance really do not like Richard's behavior at all, with his stupid camera all the time.. standing between all the photographers, shooting his own pictures and of course playing the race card so many times while there's no reason.

Really.. not everything that happens has to do with race..


Your post is racist.:twisted:

ryangoring
03-12-2009, 06:59 AM
I don't know what it is...Racism or just plain ignorance of people these days.
It is sad that some people still live in the past.
Wow!

split-step
03-12-2009, 10:59 AM
Why was the crowd booing Serena ALL THROUGH THE FINAL MATCH???

Ok fine, boo Venus when she walked in, afterall, she is the one who retired
BUT NO, they were cheering and clapping loudly when Serena missed a first serve, double fault, made an error or Kim hit a winner.

Serena wasn't villified as badly even when she played Mauresmo at the French Open.

It was ridiculous. What the hell did Serena do??

If Serena doesn't wan't to play there again that is good for her.

Also, her 2 wins aren't recognised there. Every other winner has their plaque up, but she doesn't.
Please. If I were her, I would tell the tournament organisers were to stick it.

TennisandMusic
03-12-2009, 11:38 AM
Why was the crowd booing Serena ALL THROUGH THE FINAL MATCH???

Ok fine, boo Venus when she walked in, afterall, she is the one who retired
BUT NO, they were cheering and clapping loudly when Serena missed a first serve, double fault, made an error or Kim hit a winner.

Serena wasn't villified as badly even when she played Mauresmo at the French Open.

It was ridiculous. What the hell did Serena do??

If Serena doesn't wan't to play there again that is good for her.

Also, her 2 wins aren't recognised there. Every other winner has their plaque up, but she doesn't.
Please. If I were her, I would tell the tournament organisers were to stick it.

Because everyone thought the Williams were cheating. Venus didn't even TRY to play, and this was AFTER another player had said the outcome of the semi had already been decided by Richard Williams. So then Venus drops out. The whole thing reeked of impropriety, so naturally Serena would be involved in this. Hence the boos.

At some point the Williams need to own up to the fact that they are responsible for their own actions and just MAYBE people were upset with them because of the appearance of cheating and the fact that the people who paid a lot of money to see an exciting semi got nothing. Instead they turn it around and make it seem like the people of Palm Springs don't like them because of the color of their skin. :rolleyes: Completely ridiculous.

split-step
03-12-2009, 12:03 PM
Because everyone thought the Williams were cheating. Venus didn't even TRY to play, and this was AFTER another player had said the outcome of the semi had already been decided by Richard Williams. So then Venus drops out. The whole thing reeked of impropriety, so naturally Serena would be involved in this. Hence the boos.

At some point the Williams need to own up to the fact that they are responsible for their own actions and just MAYBE people were upset with them because of the appearance of cheating and the fact that the people who paid a lot of money to see an exciting semi got nothing. Instead they turn it around and make it seem like the people of Palm Springs don't like them because of the color of their skin. :rolleyes: Completely ridiculous.

Are you serious with this?

They booed Serena all through the final because they THOUGHT she was cheating???

Again what is Serena responsible for in that situation? Serena should be ok that she was villified as an American in her own country while playing a foreign player because of the 'appearance' of cheating?

Do you hear how stupid that sounds??