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TheMagicianOfPrecision
02-28-2009, 11:59 AM
How come the scenery has changed so much going into the new millenium? Where are the American top guns? The Americans (and the aussies and swedes) used to dominate this sport.
Look at the top 10, 8 guys from Europe,1 american,1 south-american.

Whats the reason? coinsidence? Any thoughts?

tahiti
02-28-2009, 12:23 PM
I don't know how many tournaments are played on clay versus hard court but maybe that has something to do with it. More clay in EU, creates better players? Hard courters don't seem to be the best on clay.

iamke55
02-28-2009, 01:26 PM
The level of talent worldwide is now too high for American players to match. This wasn't true in previous eras, so that's why American players were able to win in the past.

Leublu tennis
02-28-2009, 02:26 PM
Tennis is sliding lower and lower in the states. But it could also be a matter of the best athletes not going into tennis in the US while they will do that in Russia, Spain, Serbia etc.

lawrence
02-28-2009, 03:10 PM
tennis doesnt get as much love on the TV stations in USA and Aus :<

skip1969
02-28-2009, 03:23 PM
i think more countries are now seriously involved (and have been for the past few years) in tennis. they've put in the time and money, and the end result is that tennis more global, more balanced than ever before. the end re**** is what we have today, where the landscape of the game is no longer dominated by a few select countries.

stormholloway
02-28-2009, 03:27 PM
America has lost its way in many regards. Tennis is just one of them.

shell
02-28-2009, 03:37 PM
America has lost its way in many regards. Tennis is just one of them.

Unfortunately, I agree :???:

saram
02-28-2009, 04:21 PM
Tennis is sliding lower and lower in the states. But it could also be a matter of the best athletes not going into tennis in the US while they will do that in Russia, Spain, Serbia etc.

Well said.

crabgrass
03-01-2009, 07:05 AM
Tennis is sliding lower and lower in the states. But it could also be a matter of the best athletes not going into tennis in the US while they will do that in Russia, Spain, Serbia etc.

this sounds a bit like a cop out...europe would also lose many of their best to football.

FlamEnemY
03-01-2009, 07:14 AM
I don't know how many tournaments are played on clay versus hard court but maybe that has something to do with it. More clay in EU, creates better players? Hard courters don't seem to be the best on clay.

AO, USO and TMC are played on hardcourt, along with round half of the other tournaments. This is not the reason.

devila
03-01-2009, 07:23 AM
American parents don't like travelling to foreign countries where there're better coaches and better fitness trainers and nutritionists. Look how overweight and injured US players are.
Where are really fit and great players in the US anymore?

jetlee2k
03-01-2009, 07:30 AM
America has lost its way in many regards. Tennis is just one of them.

sad thing to say and hear but it's TRUE.. The TV coverage for tennis just terrible.. Tennis Channel is the only choice that we have in the states with worse coverage for ATP/grand slam events.. We have to pay to get it too.. In Asia it's free and has nice coverage..

jaggy
03-01-2009, 07:51 AM
Too many 200 ounce cokes

tangerine
03-01-2009, 12:17 PM
This has been discussed to death many times already and it doesn't take long before the usual ignorant anti-American sentiments make their way into a discussion.

If you want a serious response to your question, read this for answers:

USTA takes ambitious steps to find, cultivate tennis talent
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/2008-11-05-USTA-overhaul_N.htm

tintin
03-01-2009, 02:14 PM
I think the whole clay thing is a cope out for the USTA and young kids and even the likes of Rodick;Blake;Fish and co

Federer,Nadal,Djokovic are all Europeans and even Nalbandian for example grew up on clay and have managed to adjust their mindset and games for that matter to other surfaces.

Nadal hates hard courts but he's worked hard at being standing closer to the baseline;taking balls early and being more aggresive and hell he's playing doubles whenever he can or wants to in order to be a more complete player and more all surface player.it's taken him some time but after making the semis last year in Australia and winning this year and making the semis at the USO;even if 80% of his titles are indeed on clay I don't think anyone can call him a dirtballer anymore

Blake has stagnated since last year and refuses to take another coach and he doesn't like anything but hard courts and hasn't made an iota of effort to even improve his results on the grass at Wimbledon where his speed;footwork;forehand;decent backhand and net game you would think would have given him better results . . .
Fish too is another guy who I don't think sees past the hard courts of the USO so . . .

Querrey got hot for 1 week at Monte Carlo and beat some quality players in the likes of Moya and Gasquet and took a set from Nadal in DC but Nadal in his defense made probably 50 errors and Querrey played in high altitude and relied on his serves and heavy groundies.He is the male equivalent of Lindsay Davenport.Tall;Big;heavy groudies;great serves;NO variety(despite all of Davenport's doubles wins she was sup-par the likes of Henin,Mauresmo and Hingis variety-wise);NO footwork;NO speed

Isner hasn't done squat since 2007 when he had a good summer and after taking a set off Federer at the USO.
same can be said for D. Young


my guess Europeans and South Americans wanted to improve off clay so with the help of their respective Federations;installed hard courts and just adjusted their games from clay to hard courts

The USTA imo has more $ than all of the Federerations combined and can have clay courts installed in warm states such as California and Florida but unless 1- the kids are ready to work extra hard
2-the coaches will modify their coaching technique and add in the slice;the 1 hander;the drop shot;the approach shot and net game;kids in America will continue to think that having a huge serve/forehand combo will be the only weapons that will win you matches no matter the surface will struggle in this day and age;period

Look at the French for example;this year they will have 4 real grass courts for their players(not from the Federation but from the privately owned Team Lagardere who is going head to head with the FFT) and have taken away players:Mauresmo;Gasquet;Chardy;Cornet;LLodra;Clem ent;Santoro,Mathieu and co;coaches and even big wigs

again it's up to the players if they want to be more all-surface players instead of being hard court specialists like Blake;Fish;Ginepri.It's hard nowadays to be a hard court specialists if you want to win majors,ask Roddick and Hewitt ;)

TheMagicianOfPrecision
03-01-2009, 04:51 PM
This has been discussed to death many times already and it doesn't take long before the usual ignorant anti-American sentiments make their way into a discussion.

If you want a serious response to your question, read this for answers:

USTA takes ambitious steps to find, cultivate tennis talent
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/2008-11-05-USTA-overhaul_N.htm

You may be right,but if "been discussed" is a criteria for not posting then i guess noone can post in here because it has been discussed already at some point??
Thanx for the link. Interesting.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
03-01-2009, 04:54 PM
I think the whole clay thing is a cope out for the USTA and young kids and even the likes of Rodick;Blake;Fish and co

Federer,Nadal,Djokovic are all Europeans and even Nalbandian for example grew up on clay and have managed to adjust their mindset and games for that matter to other surfaces.

Nadal hates hard courts but he's worked hard at being standing closer to the baseline;taking balls early and being more aggresive and hell he's playing doubles whenever he can or wants to in order to be a more complete player and more all surface player.it's taken him some time but after making the semis last year in Australia and winning this year and making the semis at the USO;even if 80% of his titles are indeed on clay I don't think anyone can call him a dirtballer anymore

Blake has stagnated since last year and refuses to take another coach and he doesn't like anything but hard courts and hasn't made an iota of effort to even improve his results on the grass at Wimbledon where his speed;footwork;forehand;decent backhand and net game you would think would have given him better results . . .
Fish too is another guy who I don't think sees past the hard courts of the USO so . . .

Querrey got hot for 1 week at Monte Carlo and beat some quality players in the likes of Moya and Gasquet and took a set from Nadal in DC but Nadal in his defense made probably 50 errors and Querrey played in high altitude and relied on his serves and heavy groundies.He is the male equivalent of Lindsay Davenport.Tall;Big;heavy groudies;great serves;NO variety(despite all of Davenport's doubles wins she was sup-par the likes of Henin,Mauresmo and Hingis variety-wise);NO footwork;NO speed

Isner hasn't done squat since 2007 when he had a good summer and after taking a set off Federer at the USO.
same can be said for D. Young


my guess Europeans and South Americans wanted to improve off clay so with the help of their respective Federations;installed hard courts and just adjusted their games from clay to hard courts

The USTA imo has more $ than all of the Federerations combined and can have clay courts installed in warm states such as California and Florida but unless 1- the kids are ready to work extra hard
2-the coaches will modify their coaching technique and add in the slice;the 1 hander;the drop shot;the approach shot and net game;kids in America will continue to think that having a huge serve/forehand combo will be the only weapons that will win you matches no matter the surface will struggle in this day and age;period

Look at the French for example;this year they will have 4 real grass courts for their players(not from the Federation but from the privately owned Team Lagardere who is going head to head with the FFT) and have taken away players:Mauresmo;Gasquet;Chardy;Cornet;LLodra;Clem ent;Santoro,Mathieu and co;coaches and even big wigs

again it's up to the players if they want to be more all-surface players instead of being hard court specialists like Blake;Fish;Ginepri.It's hard nowadays to be a hard court specialists if you want to win majors,ask Roddick and Hewitt ;)

Very interesting,thank you.

egn
03-01-2009, 05:32 PM
For first hand I can say US just does not focus as much on tennis anymore and the athletic talent is put into other sports and funding. There are few junior level programs for tennis while I can't go a few miles without seeing an advertisement for a program for baseball, basketball and football. It's all about what the people watch, Americans don't watch tennis that much anymore. As a whole I have found more Americans sight the baselining era as a lack of interest in tennis. My family and neighborhood alone know a lot about tennis prior to 2000 the falling of Sampras caused a lot to lose interest as most sight baselining to be like watching ping pong. I do not know if this is a conseus over America but since most Americans were Sampras fans they prefered his style. Exciting fast points and do not like the baselining of the day. Most still tune into the US Open here and there but as a whole most Americans I ask find tennis today to be really boring.

Leublu tennis
03-01-2009, 07:35 PM
This has been discussed to death many times already and it doesn't take long before the usual ignorant anti-American sentiments make their way into a discussion.

If you want a serious response to your question, read this for answers:

USTA takes ambitious steps to find, cultivate tennis talent
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/2008-11-05-USTA-overhaul_N.htmIgnorant anti-American sentiment. Is that the opposite of ignorant pro-American sentiment? And what does this have to do with the subject of the thread? I am an American but I don't particularly like any of the current American players. So what? The question was: why are there no decent American tennis players these days. And if you don't have an answer or a helpful suggestion, then buzz off.

Blinkism
03-01-2009, 07:55 PM
It's because all of the upcoming American stars and kids training to be the best have had a horrible role model in Andy Roddick. Someone who has overachieved once and then has been a mediocre player who doesn't adjust his game when he needs to.

Disagree with me or not, but when Agassi retired that was it for dominating tennis from the USA. Since Andy Roddick won the USO it's been nothing but Europeans dominating the finals of all the Grand Slams since.

The sad thing is that after Roddick, who is the USA's greatest hope? James Blake? Mardy Fish? Donald Young?

Give me a break!

There are two external factors that you can't blame the Americans on: the slowing down of the surface at Wimbledon and at the AO, and; the domination of Federer and Nadal. But if Djokovic can squeeze out a GS title in the midst of that, why can't any body from the states do it?

Because it's time to start training kids to play longer rallies and adapt to slower surfaces. It's time for American tennis, like Roddick, to adjust and adapt.

cmb
03-01-2009, 07:57 PM
basically the US has no National money circuit that the western european countries have. So aspiring juniors have to pay out of their own pocket to get good matches.
In france good division 1 players can earn a nice living while they try to improve, so the parents have no financial "loss" getting their kids good matches.

the usta should put a million dollars into a national prize money circuit per year, divide it all into the sections and sanction a crapload of tournaments so that the juniors and the college guys get to fight for the money.

ITs the tournament system that is the problem...anyone who says it is fine right now is dreaming

Toxicmilk
03-01-2009, 08:11 PM
It's because all of the upcoming American stars and kids training to be the best have had a horrible role model in Andy Roddick.

Blaming it on Andy Roddick?....Really?

basically the US has no National money circuit that the western european countries have. So aspiring juniors have to pay out of their own pocket to get good matches.
In france good division 1 players can earn a nice living while they try to improve, so the parents have no financial "loss" getting their kids good matches.

the usta should put a million dollars into a national prize money circuit per year, divide it all into the sections and sanction a crapload of tournaments so that the juniors and the college guys get to fight for the money.

ITs the tournament system that is the problem...anyone who says it is fine right now is dreaming

Very interesting point.

jetlee2k
03-01-2009, 08:25 PM
Coaches too.. USTA should fire all current coaches.. Patrick Mac.. Zina Garison (WHO??.. she is now suing back USTA for not being fair comparing to the great Johny Mac.. this quite a joke, she's fired finally) and get some real coaches.. And yes.. get a MENTAL GAME coaches.. train the juniors more in mental game, toughen them up a little.. ROddick, James Blake, Fish and etc.. they are all mentally weak and fragile.. !! I missed the old days as Sampras, Agassi, Chang, Courier.. those guys are tough.. !!

Blinkism
03-01-2009, 08:37 PM
Blaming it on Andy Roddick?....Really?

I meant this in the context of changing the style of play to adjust to changing conditions in Tennis. It's not really as much of a dig at Roddick as it is at the style you see of all of the next generation of american players. They lack something that European players have, a strong mental game and the ability to play well on a slower surface and really grind, as opposed to relying on a strong serve and a forehand/volley game that would have been great 10 years ago!

danb
03-01-2009, 08:39 PM
America has lost its way in many regards. Tennis is just one of them.

Very sad and true.

blue12
03-01-2009, 08:44 PM
Sam Querrey is going to start dominating in the next few years! Samurai!

NickC
03-01-2009, 10:42 PM
this sounds a bit like a cop out...europe would also lose many of their best to football.

This is true, but your logic has a shortfall. In Europe, Tennis is MASSIVE. I mean, there is no real comparable sport to Football, but the big three there are Football, Tennis, and Basketball. If a kid is too big or doesn't have the right body type for football, he moves on to tennis or basketball. Notice how Spain is on top in Tennis, Football, and Basketball. Their best athletes play those sports. If not one, than one of the other two, if you see what I'm saying. In the States, the best athletes play American Football. If not, then they play Basketball. If not those two, they move on to Baseball or Hockey. Those who don't make it there gravitate towards soccer or tennis. The problem is that in Europe, Football gets the best athletes, and Tennis and Basketball get everyone else. In the States, Tennis gets the 4th, 5th or sometimes 6th pick from the pool of athletes. Unless American Tennis finds a way to get the first and second level athletes, it won't improve.

tahiti
03-02-2009, 08:08 AM
This is true, but your logic has a shortfall. In Europe, Tennis is MASSIVE. I mean, there is no real comparable sport to Football, but the big three there are Football, Tennis, and Basketball. If a kid is too big or doesn't have the right body type for football, he moves on to tennis or basketball. Notice how Spain is on top in Tennis, Football, and Basketball. Their best athletes play those sports. If not one, than one of the other two, if you see what I'm saying. In the States, the best athletes play American Football. If not, then they play Basketball. If not those two, they move on to Baseball or Hockey. Those who don't make it there gravitate towards soccer or tennis. The problem is that in Europe, Football gets the best athletes, and Tennis and Basketball get everyone else. In the States, Tennis gets the 4th, 5th or sometimes 6th pick from the pool of athletes. Unless American Tennis finds a way to get the first and second level athletes, it won't improve.

If you watch sports on Eurosport Football would be no. 1 but not tennis or basketball, definitely not. It's volleyball, skiing, rowing, athletics. Hardly ever tennis or basketball.

FlamEnemY
03-02-2009, 09:15 AM
If you watch sports on Eurosport Football would be no. 1 but not tennis or basketball, definitely not. It's volleyball, skiing, rowing, athletics. Hardly ever tennis or basketball.

I agree about basketball, it is not very popular.
The Slams and some of the important events are broadcasted, so I guess tennis is fairly popular here. At least more than rowing, and on par with volleyball. Plus, it's not only Eurosport that broadcasts tennis, there is a local channel in my country that show some tournaments live.

Leublu tennis
03-02-2009, 09:25 AM
Coaches too.. USTA should fire all current coaches.. Patrick Mac.. Zina Garison (WHO??.. she is now suing back USTA for not being fair comparing to the great Johny Mac.. this quite a joke, she's fired finally) and get some real coaches.. And yes.. get a MENTAL GAME coaches.. train the juniors more in mental game, toughen them up a little.. ROddick, James Blake, Fish and etc.. they are all mentally weak and fragile.. !! I missed the old days as Sampras, Agassi, Chang, Courier.. those guys are tough.. !! What a fine post. Thanks for your ideas.

Leublu tennis
03-02-2009, 09:40 AM
This is true, but your logic has a shortfall. In Europe, Tennis is MASSIVE. I mean, there is no real comparable sport to Football, but the big three there are Football, Tennis, and Basketball.

In the States, the best athletes play American Football. If not, then they play Basketball. If not those two, they move on to Baseball or Hockey. Well, not quite IMO. Football is #1 for sure but then I think comes baseball, which is played by both white and black athletes, and even foreigners (Dominicans; Japanese). More the whites actually. Basketball is now dominated by the graduates of street basketball. It used to be that pro basketball players were rated on their foul percentages and passes. Now it rebounds, rebound, and rebounds.

And, stuffing the basket? What a joke. The NBA should have raised the basket up by at least 3 feet a long time ago. Stuffing is not shooting. It may look "athletic" but its a total joke for a game that gives credit for getting a ball into a basket. Stuffing is not what the game was supposed to be about.

Hockey is a long way down in third place. And it seems to be dominated by Canadian and Russian players, I think. Don't really know as I don't follow this foolish game. Really, slamming into other players? Give me a break!

JediMindTrick
03-02-2009, 12:07 PM
This is true, but your logic has a shortfall. In Europe, Tennis is MASSIVE. I mean, there is no real comparable sport to Football, but the big three there are Football, Tennis, and Basketball. If a kid is too big or doesn't have the right body type for football, he moves on to tennis or basketball. Notice how Spain is on top in Tennis, Football, and Basketball. Their best athletes play those sports. If not one, than one of the other two, if you see what I'm saying. In the States, the best athletes play American Football. If not, then they play Basketball. If not those two, they move on to Baseball or Hockey. Those who don't make it there gravitate towards soccer or tennis. The problem is that in Europe, Football gets the best athletes, and Tennis and Basketball get everyone else. In the States, Tennis gets the 4th, 5th or sometimes 6th pick from the pool of athletes. Unless American Tennis finds a way to get the first and second level athletes, it won't improve.

I agree, this is the main reason, in Europe and South America, tennis is the no 2 sport, while in the US is, what, no 6 or so.

Another reason could be the fact that in Europe and South America kids play football where you have a lot of sprinting and sudden direction changes which translates very well to tennis, while in the US kids play american football where you have a lot of sprinting but not that many direction changes, or basketball where you have a lot of direction changes but not that much sprinting. Then of course you have kids who play baseball or golf but those are obese and can't move at all.

luishcorreia
03-02-2009, 01:17 PM
There should be no place with better trainnign conditions potencial than the US.

The US could learn a thing or two with European trainning programs. The clay seasson is long? is that going to change? Probably not. Why not create more clay courts (real clay courts, not that green stugf they have n the US) on trainning facilities for young juniors. Make them more proficient on the surface.

I do no think that clay is the only reason. 3 o of 4 grand slams and most masters tournaments are in hard, indoor or grass. Where are the americans doing in those tournaments?

Who was the last american to win a Grand Slam Tournament? Where are the american players in the US Open, Australian Open, Wimbledon, Dubai, Nasdaq, Pacific Live OPen, Masters Madrid, Masters Paris, etc.?

Why is Nadal able to evolve and go over its limitations and win wimbledon 8a few years ago that was almost impossible) and americans are not able to win on clay?