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View Full Version : WTA player hits linesman and is excluded from match


matchmaker
03-01-2009, 01:25 PM
WTA player Yanina Wickmayer was in the final of the 50 000 usd ITF tournament in Clearwater, up 6-1 and 1-1 against Julie Coin when she apparently hit a serve from her opponent that went out backwards a little too hard and it hit a linesman on the shoulder. She was immediately excluded from the match and all her points won that week taken away from her, plus the fact that she could not appear for the doubles final for which she had also qualified with her team mate Maria-Elena Camerin.

Has anyone seen this incident? It seems like an extremely harsh penalty in a world where people like ATP player Daniel "Crazy Dan" Koellerer are hardly stopped in their violent ways.

I haven't seen the incident, so I cannot really judge about it, but it would seem strange that someone who reached the final and is winning it would knowingly and consciously hit a linesmen. She claims that during the whole week, there were no linesmen where she hit the ball, that it hit the ground before it touched the linesman's shoulder.

Any comments?

tintin
03-01-2009, 01:29 PM
did she have a go at the linesman on purpose or was it an accident?
it it was on purpose I agree but if it's proven to be by accident that beyond harsh of a punishment

Aldi Patron
03-01-2009, 01:32 PM
Hmm...that's a tough call. I remember Agassi "missing" a serve against Rafter(?) at Wimbledon that nearly took a lineswoman's head off.

Why did she have to hit the ball backwards? Couldn't she have just let the out serve go? Either way, that does seem sort of harsh.

boredone3456
03-01-2009, 01:33 PM
Based on that description I would say it was an accident. Seems like she hit her serve and it hit and reacted weird off the court and happened to hit a linesman. She should not have been punished like that for that. Also, if there was never a linesman there all week where she hit it why would there suddenly be one there now. I don't see why she would do it on purpose when she is winning the event that handily.

mzzmuaa
03-01-2009, 01:36 PM
We know that this would never happen if the officials considered it an accident. So, the officials, who were actually at the match, don't consider it an accident.

nickynu
03-01-2009, 01:38 PM
Yeah I remember tiger Tim Henmen getting defaulted from wimbledon for hitting a ball girl.

He was such a bad M********** lol - seriously tho he looked crestfallen as he realised he was the first guy ever to be defaulted for this. Even Mac couldnt manage that feat.

oneguy21
03-01-2009, 01:39 PM
It was probably an accident.

Btw, if you intentionally try to hit your opponent with your serve and you do, it's your point right?

moonbat
03-01-2009, 01:40 PM
Based on that description I would say it was an accident. Seems like she hit her serve and it hit and reacted weird off the court and happened to hit a linesman. She should not have been punished like that for that. Also, if there was never a linesman there all week where she hit it why would there suddenly be one there now. I don't see why she would do it on purpose when she is winning the event that handily.

The original post is rather confusing, but I took it to mean that Wickmayer was returning serve, the serve was long, and she hit it to get it off the court and it hit a linesperson. So since she wasn't trying to return the serve, she was just hitting it off the court, the umpire might have decided she did it with too much force.

RoddickAce
03-01-2009, 02:05 PM
The original post is rather confusing, but I took it to mean that Wickenmayer was returning serve, the serve was long, and she hit it to get it off the court and it hit a linesperson. So since she wasn't trying to return the serve, she was just hitting it off the court, the umpire might have decided she did it with too much force.

My interpretation is similar, except, she was doing some "show biz", and tried to hit the return backwards, but missed badly and hit a linesperson.

JeMar
03-01-2009, 02:23 PM
Yeah I remember tiger Tim Henmen getting defaulted from wimbledon for hitting a ball girl.

He was such a bad M********** lol - seriously tho he looked crestfallen as he realised he was the first guy ever to be defaulted for this. Even Mac couldnt manage that feat.

Tim Henman? Tim "Tiny Tim" Henman??? What year was this?

matchmaker
03-01-2009, 02:41 PM
Yeah I remember tiger Tim Henmen getting defaulted from wimbledon for hitting a ball girl.

He was such a bad M********** lol - seriously tho he looked crestfallen as he realised he was the first guy ever to be defaulted for this. Even Mac couldnt manage that feat.

Stefan Edberg even killed a linesman early on in his carreer. I believe it wasn't on purpose, but the ball hit him on the head, he fell over and died.

viktorkwan
03-01-2009, 03:02 PM
It was probably an accident.

Btw, if you intentionally try to hit your opponent with your serve and you do, it's your point right?

yes if your serve touches your opponent before landing, it's your point.

Pretty difficult to do that in a singles match though...

viktorkwan
03-01-2009, 03:05 PM
Tim Henman? Tim "Tiny Tim" Henman??? What year was this?

It was in a doubles match more than a few years ago...way before he became a top player if I'm not wrong.

If I remember correctly, he was immediately defaulted and also thrown out of the singles tournament.

What happened was he took a ball after a point was over and wanted to hit it at the net...think he was near the baseline at that time....he took a whack at the ball without looking to see if the court was clear and a ballgirl was running across at that moment...the ball clocked her in the head.

eeytennis
03-01-2009, 03:06 PM
WTA player Yanina Wickenmayer was in the final of the 50 000 usd ITF tournament in Clearwater, up 6-1 and 1-1 against Julie Coin when she apparently hit a serve that went out from her opponent backwards a little too hard and it hit a linesman on the shoulder. She was immediately excluded from the match and all her points won that week taken away from her, plus the fact that she could not appear for the doubles final for which she had also qualified with her team mate Maria-Elena Camerin.

Has anyone seen this incident? It seems like an extremely harsh penalty in a world where people like ATP player Daniel "Crazy Dan" Koellerer are hardly stopped in their violent ways.

I haven't seen the incident, so I cannot really judge about it, but it would seem strange that someone who reached the final and is winning it would knowingly and consciously hit a linesmen. She claims that during the whole week, there were no linesmen where she hit the ball, that it hit the ground before it touched the linesman's shoulder.

Any comments?

I don't think it's too harsh. Come on, you know there are people standing behind you...and what was the point in smacking it back? It's like hitting the ball over to your opponent to serve, you wait until they make eye contact or warn them that the ball is coming so you don't hit them...common sense.

egn
03-01-2009, 03:13 PM
Way too harsh you fine her money but she had the title practically another ******** move by the WTA. Have to love that organization.

Topaz
03-01-2009, 03:15 PM
WTA player Yanina Wickenmayer was in the final of the 50 000 usd ITF tournament in Clearwater, up 6-1 and 1-1 against Julie Coin when she apparently hit a serve that went out from her opponent backwards a little too hard and it hit a linesman on the shoulder. She was immediately excluded from the match and all her points won that week taken away from her, plus the fact that she could not appear for the doubles final for which she had also qualified with her team mate Maria-Elena Camerin.

Has anyone seen this incident? It seems like an extremely harsh penalty in a world where people like ATP player Daniel "Crazy Dan" Koellerer are hardly stopped in their violent ways.

I haven't seen the incident, so I cannot really judge about it, but it would seem strange that someone who reached the final and is winning it would knowingly and consciously hit a linesmen. She claims that during the whole week, there were no linesmen where she hit the ball, that it hit the ground before it touched the linesman's shoulder.

Any comments?

Do you have a link on this?

Also, it is Yanina Wickmayer.

Personally, I doubt she did it on purpose...pros are very often hitting out balls away or back over to the serving side. Seems very, very harsh.

oneguy21
03-01-2009, 03:39 PM
yes if your serve touches your opponent before landing, it's your point.

Pretty difficult to do that in a singles match though...

I'm surprised this tactic is not used more often in doubles.

NickC
03-01-2009, 03:49 PM
Stefan Edberg even killed a linesman early on in his carreer. I believe it wasn't on purpose, but the ball hit him on the head, he fell over and died.

Seriously?

woodrow1029
03-01-2009, 03:53 PM
Seriously?
He did not hit him in the head. He hit him right in the sweetspot. The line umpire fell over and hit his head on the court. He was on blood thinning medication and died of internal brain bleeding.

autumn_leaf
03-01-2009, 03:58 PM
i want a link or something to this story. this is such a drastic punishment.

matchmaker
03-01-2009, 03:59 PM
He did not hit him in the head. He hit him right in the sweetspot. The line umpire fell over and hit his head on the court. He was on blood thinning medication and died of internal brain bleeding.

Thanks for adding a little more precision to the story.

It must be horrible to go through something like that for a tennis player.

Leublu tennis
03-01-2009, 06:20 PM
The original post is rather confusing, but I took it to mean that Wickmayer was returning serve, the serve was long, and she hit it to get it off the court and it hit a linesperson. So since she wasn't trying to return the serve, she was just hitting it off the court, the umpire might have decided she did it with too much force.This might be the right explanation. The original post made no sense at all.

edmondsm
03-01-2009, 06:31 PM
He did not hit him in the head. He hit him right in the sweetspot. The line umpire fell over and hit his head on the court. He was on blood thinning medication and died of internal brain bleeding.

It was in the USO juniors final I think. Like 1980 maybe.

I think the OP was say that she hit her opponent's out serve at a lineman that was behind her. Obviously the ump determined she did it solely to hit the lines person.

woodrow1029
03-01-2009, 08:14 PM
Way too harsh you fine her money but she had the title practically another ******** move by the WTA. Have to love that organization.
The WTA had nothing to do with the decision. It was an ITF Challenger. The ITF/USTA Supervisor on site made the decision to default her.

woodrow1029
03-01-2009, 08:30 PM
The players are responsible for their actions whether intentional or not. If she hit the ball that was not in play, and it was hit hard and it injured or hurt the line umpire, then it's a pretty clear default.

Bud
03-01-2009, 08:33 PM
Seriously?

He did not hit him in the head. He hit him right in the sweetspot. The line umpire fell over and hit his head on the court. He was on blood thinning medication and died of internal brain bleeding.

Read Edberg's Wikipedia page... it's in there.

Bud
03-01-2009, 08:46 PM
I can't find any stories on this incident written in English. All the news reports are French/Belgian.

Rorsach
03-02-2009, 12:13 AM
From Yanina's diary:

Even beetje uitleg over wat er vandaag gebeurd is want jullie zullen wel verschoten zijn. Ik had de eerste set gewonnen met 63 en het stond 11 in de tweede. Julie serveerde out en ik sla de bal naar achter. Misschien iets harder dan gewild maar er hebben daar de hele week geen lijnrechters gestaan en vandaag stond daar wel één. Ik heb die per ongeluk op de schouder geraakt enik mocht niet meer verder spelen. Ik stond zelfs nog met mijn gezicht naar het net toen ik de bal naar achteren sloeg en hij raakte nog eerst de grond alvorens de lijnrechter. Ik had er een heel goeie week opzitten en heb een paar heel goeie matchen gespeeld en daarom is dit echt wel jammer.

Ik ga een weekje rusten nu en houd jullie zeker op de hoogte.

Translation:

A little bit of an explanation for what happened today because you'll probably be a bit shocked. I had won the first set with 6-3 and it was 1-1 in the second set. Julie served the ball out and i hit the ball backwards. Perhaps a bit harder that i had planned, but there hadn't been any linesmen back there the whole week, until today. I accidentally hit him on the shoulder and i was banned from playing. I was even standing with my face towards the net when i hit the ball backwards and the ball even bounced before it hit the linesman. I had a great week and had played a couple of very good matches so this is a real shame for me.

I'm gonna take a week of rest and i'll keep you uptodate.

maverick66
03-02-2009, 12:20 AM
if thats what happened i fail to see what the problem was. if she intentionally hit a ball at him i can see it as an issue. i saw moya do it once live where he hit at the lines on the baseline for foot fault and he only got warned so im not sure why she got defaulted. problem is even if she wins a protest on it she still loses that match and with that points and prizemoney are not as high as she might have gotten.

Rorsach
03-02-2009, 12:26 AM
Looks like she's just not used to other people on the court. She did the same thing most of us do when the opponent hits a serve out, we give it an axtra bump to make sure the ball is gone so we don't trip over it.

tahiti
03-02-2009, 07:12 AM
Probably a thoughtless mistake but can they prove deliberate negligence? I doubt it.

woodrow1029
03-02-2009, 07:41 AM
if thats what happened i fail to see what the problem was. if she intentionally hit a ball at him i can see it as an issue. i saw moya do it once live where he hit at the lines on the baseline for foot fault and he only got warned so im not sure why she got defaulted. problem is even if she wins a protest on it she still loses that match and with that points and prizemoney are not as high as she might have gotten.
Once again, if it was hit hard enough to injure or hurt the line umpire, it doesn't matter if it is intentional or not. She even says she was looking the opposite direction when she hit the ball. They are responsible for what they do.

The other inconsistency in her version of the story is that it is a $50K tournament which means that there indeed line umpire all throughout the week from the start of main draw, unless it was a clay court tournament, then maybe not.

jms007
03-02-2009, 07:53 AM
They probably had linesmen this time, because it was a final, no?

woodrow1029
03-02-2009, 07:55 AM
They probably had linesmen this time, because it was a final, no?
at a 50K tournament, it's required to have line umpires the whole tournament. The difference, is there may have been 6 or 7 line umpires instead of 3-5

Cosmic Charlie
03-02-2009, 08:15 AM
Some tournaments, even Masters Series, have only two line umpires behind the receiver-one along the service centreline and the other along the side line. Immediately after the serve, the centreline line umpire scurries across to line up with the other side line.
What I imagine is that in this final, they positioned 3 behind her, so while she was used to swinging at the dead ball, this time she struck an umpire who wasn't htere in previous rounds.

What I remember is that malicious intent with minor fallout = no intent (accidental) resulting in an injury=default.

woodrow1029
03-02-2009, 08:24 AM
Some tournaments, even Masters Series, have only two line umpires behind the receiver-one along the service centreline and the other along the side line. Immediately after the serve, the centreline line umpire scurries across to line up with the other side line.
What I imagine is that in this final, they positioned 3 behind her, so while she was used to swinging at the dead ball, this time she struck an umpire who wasn't htere in previous rounds.

What I remember is that malicious intent with minor fallout = no intent (accidental) resulting in an injury=default.
There would not have been 3 behind her. During most of the week, there would have been 1, and then for semis and finals, either 1 or 2.

jmverdugo
03-02-2009, 08:38 AM
So most linesman can duck a 140MPH from A Roddick but this one couldnt handle a sitter that even bounced beore hitting him in the shouder! Tough luck, of all the linesman you get the slower one! I saw something like happening in the Dubai tournament, I think Djokovic hit back a long serve by Simon and hit the lineman on the opposite side of the court, it even did not bounced it was a really fast shot. Nole apologize but the umpire did not say anything.

tacou
03-02-2009, 08:55 AM
this is ridic. if you get hit in the FACE with a tennis ball it doesn't even leave a mark. I think a linesman can handle one to the shoulder?

Dave M
03-02-2009, 09:07 AM
It was in a doubles match more than a few years ago...way before he became a top player if I'm not wrong.

If I remember correctly, he was immediately defaulted and also thrown out of the singles tournament.

What happened was he took a ball after a point was over and wanted to hit it at the net...think he was near the baseline at that time....he took a whack at the ball without looking to see if the court was clear and a ballgirl was running across at that moment...the ball clocked her in the head.

1994,1995 something like that i think he was playing doubles with Broad.

woodrow1029
03-02-2009, 09:11 AM
1994,1995 something like that i think he was playing doubles with Broad.
1995. He was playing with Bates.

scs96ajr
03-02-2009, 10:24 AM
Is this the same WTA that fined Dubai with 300K for not allowing an Israeli player to take part?

Wow....

woodrow1029
03-02-2009, 10:34 AM
Is this the same WTA that fined Dubai with 300K for not allowing an Israeli player to take part?

Wow....
The WTA, once again, had nothing to do with this decision to default Wickmayer. It was an ITF Challenger. The decision was made solely by the USTA/ITF Supervisor on site.

Kaptain Karl
03-02-2009, 10:53 AM
People, pay attention to woodrow's input. He's got the credentials to back up what he's posting.

- KK

woodrow1029
03-02-2009, 11:04 AM
People, pay attention to woodrow's input. He's got the credentials to back up what he's posting.

- KK
Thanks Karl.

I just talked to the chair umpire that umpired Wickmayer's semifinal match. She had actually done something similar in the semis, except it was a baseline umpire that she almost hit head high. She received a code violation for this incident.

In the finals, she hit the sideline umpire that was behind her in the FACE. Not the shoulder. The line umpire's face was red and swollen. The chair umpire that umpired the final is very very experienced and would not call the supervisor to the court unless it was pretty clearly a default situation. The supervisor agreed and that was why she was defaulted.

woodrow1029
03-02-2009, 11:16 AM
Oh, by the way, it hit the lineswoman on the fly, not after a bounce.

Topaz
03-02-2009, 11:40 AM
Thanks for the skinny, Woodrow. Sounds like, if she was warned in the semi, that she should have known better in the final.

I'm sure she knows now!!!

split-step
03-02-2009, 11:46 AM
It's amazing the clarity, proper information brings.

Thank you for the info Woodrow!

jmverdugo
03-02-2009, 12:01 PM
Ok, now that we have the other side of the story it is obvious that the she kind of deserved it, however, I still think the linesman was slow, I mean have you seen those guys moving at the speed of light to avoid get hit by a man service.

Oui, c'est moi.
03-02-2009, 12:05 PM
Wickmayer is a tad annoying so i'm not suprised.
It seems she's fond of gamesmanship (i'm not calling THIS gamesmanship btw).

woodrow1029
03-02-2009, 12:17 PM
Ok, now that we have the other side of the story it is obvious that the she kind of deserved it, however, I still think the linesman was slow, I mean have you seen those guys moving at the speed of light to avoid get hit by a man service.
Yes, when the serve is coming from 90 feet away. This was about 10 feet away.

tudwell
03-02-2009, 12:40 PM
I see from woodrow's input that she was clearly being negligent. However, I still think it's an unfortunate thing to happen when she was so close to winning the title. Better luck next time, Wickmayer.

woodrow1029
03-02-2009, 12:42 PM
at 2/2 in the first set, Wickmayer received a code violation because she got mad at a line umpire's call and smacked a ball out of the court, nearly hitting a spectator. She also received 2 other codes earlier in the week for almost hitting ballkids with reckless behavior.

I am interested to hear if ANYONE still thinks this was too harsh of a penalty?

GPB
03-02-2009, 12:46 PM
Haha, nope, thanks Woodrow.

maverick66
03-02-2009, 12:57 PM
at 2/2 in the first set, Wickmayer received a code violation because she got mad at a line umpire's call and smacked a ball out of the court, nearly hitting a spectator. She also received 2 other codes earlier in the week for almost hitting ballkids with reckless behavior.

I am interested to hear if ANYONE still thinks this was too harsh of a penalty?

ill bite. if she didnt intentionally hit anyone then no i dont think she should be defaulted. sure she has an anger issue but those were warnings she got for doing things on purpose. she did not intentionally hit this linesman and got a raw deal for it.

woodrow1029
03-02-2009, 01:01 PM
ill bite. if she didnt intentionally hit anyone then no i dont think she should be defaulted. sure she has an anger issue but those were warnings she got for doing things on purpose. she did not intentionally hit this linesman and got a raw deal for it.
She deliberately hit the ball. She didn't get defaulted in the other situations because she did not hit or injure anyone.

The lineswoman did go to the hospital afterwards, by the way.

If you hit ANYONE and injure them, it doesn't matter if it's intentional or not.

Topaz
03-02-2009, 02:08 PM
at 2/2 in the first set, Wickmayer received a code violation because she got mad at a line umpire's call and smacked a ball out of the court, nearly hitting a spectator. She also received 2 other codes earlier in the week for almost hitting ballkids with reckless behavior.

I am interested to hear if ANYONE still thinks this was too harsh of a penalty?

I don't now that you've filled in the holes.

ill bite. if she didnt intentionally hit anyone then no i dont think she should be defaulted. sure she has an anger issue but those were warnings she got for doing things on purpose. she did not intentionally hit this linesman and got a raw deal for it.

What do mean she did the other ones on purpose? I didn't get that from Woodrow's posts. She had *two* previous incidences in this tournament. She knew the next step could be a default, and she did it again, and she suffered the consequences. Personal responsibility. Case closed.