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View Full Version : why can federer read roddick's serve


roddickfan90
03-03-2009, 05:47 AM
is it because of the ball toss, or is it because hes just blessed with good reactions.

I think it could be due to roddicks body language, because i heard agassi saying that becker allways stuck his tounge in the direction he wanted his serve to go.

ajs72us
03-03-2009, 06:03 AM
Roddick has two different motions for his wide and down the middle serve. If he goes up the T his knee bend is not so extreme. When he goes out wide on either side he has a extreme knee bend. Watch for it it is pretty obvious.

tennis_hand
03-03-2009, 06:10 AM
roddick's angles are not very good, but just purely fast.
so federer's fast reaction can counter his serve speed.

Michael Bluth
03-03-2009, 06:14 AM
Now, against a lot of guys his serve is too fast much of the time for it to matter whether or not they know where it's going, but Fed has the reflexes to return better than most.

DarthFed
03-03-2009, 07:12 AM
Roddick has two different motions for his wide and down the middle serve. If he goes up the T his knee bend is not so extreme. When he goes out wide on either side he has a extreme knee bend. Watch for it it is pretty obvious.

Its obvious to the viewer but a little harder for the actual player, so its impressive his reaction is still so good

roddickfan90
03-03-2009, 07:40 AM
Now, against a lot of guys his serve is too fast much of the time for it to matter whether or not they know where it's going, but Fed has the reflexes to return better than most.

i understand, but roddick hit 30 aces against agassi in queens and cincy, and agassi was probably the greatest returner ever with excellent reactions.

thejoe
03-03-2009, 07:54 AM
i understand, but roddick hit 30 aces against agassi in queens and cincy, and agassi was probably the greatest returner ever with excellent reactions.

Yes, but he went after the return more than anyone, meaning he was going to get aced a lot anyway. He got aced 17 times by Nadal back in 2006.

tintin
03-03-2009, 08:09 AM
add Murray on the list 2

jmverdugo
03-03-2009, 08:17 AM
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that Fed is not trying to hit back , he is just blocking back so he doesnt require that much time to prepare himself or to put in position.

iamke55
03-03-2009, 08:33 AM
Roddick doesn't hit a lot of aces because of his variety. He likes to keep people guessing by hitting the body serve often, something Federer can't do because he doesn't have the speed or placement to do it. That's why Federer aims for the corners on every serve.

dwhiteside
03-03-2009, 09:47 AM
Roddick doesn't hit a lot of aces because of his variety. He likes to keep people guessing by hitting the body serve often, something Federer can't do because he doesn't have the speed or placement to do it. That's why Federer aims for the corners on every serve.

Roddick has more placement ability than Federer? Federer doesn't have enough placement to serve to the body? Gonna go ahead and disagree with that.

Although to your credit that's a comment slightly less absurd than the one a while ago where you said Agassi was a poor returner.

burosky
03-03-2009, 10:51 AM
Roddick has two different motions for his wide and down the middle serve. If he goes up the T his knee bend is not so extreme. When he goes out wide on either side he has a extreme knee bend. Watch for it it is pretty obvious.

If this is pretty obvious why am I not seeing Roddick's opponents moving towards the T or the sides as soon as he makes his knee bend when they return his serve? You would think they would move as soon as possible to have more time to prepare.

Bottle Rocket
03-03-2009, 11:05 AM
roddick's angles are not very good, but just purely fast.


Compared with who? Karlovic?

Roddick doesn't hit a lot of aces because of his variety. He likes to keep people guessing by hitting the body serve often, something Federer can't do because he doesn't have the speed or placement to do it. That's why Federer aims for the corners on every serve.

He doesn't hit a lot of aces because of his variety, but he keeps people guessing? That's impressive.

Federer can't hit body serves because he doesn't have the speed or placement?

Ok guys, let me make sure I've got this right. Roddick can't hit angles and he doesn't hit a lot of aces, but he does hit body serves well. Federer, on the other hand, has no accuracy, so he is incapable of hitting a body serve. Instead, he aims for the corners? Then, because of his lack of accuracy, happens to consistently rank highly in the ace count every year?

"American Andy Roddick, a member of the 1,000 aces club, finished second behind Karlovic (in 2008) with 889 aces in 62 matches. Roddick led the circuit with 1,017 aces in 2004 and 912 in 2005, and was No. 3 the past two years."

http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/1/en/2008news/ace_leaders.asp

Check the above links for more stats, including Federer's.

I wish I knew how you guys come up with such complete nonsense.

Shaolin
03-03-2009, 11:34 AM
Pretty much epic fail all around by iamke55. I can see how he would be dense enough to say Agassi didnt return well. Roddick DOES hit a lot of aces, and its NOT because of variety. He gets aces by sheer brute power. Fed gets aces with variety and placement.

bladepdb
03-03-2009, 11:45 AM
I think it's a combination of Federer's reflex and as someone earlier mentioned him just putting his racket on the ball rather than going for an outright shot, Fed's timing, and most importantly, the fact that they've played som any times (almost 20 if not more).

The more times to you play someone the better you can pick up their habits/actions. Fed is smart enough to pick up Roddick's movement on certain types of serves. By contrast, people are not able to read Fed very easily because Fed keeps his toss and body movement almost indistinguishable between any type of serve.

Luke5192
03-03-2009, 11:47 AM
because he's federer

mixertefera
03-03-2009, 12:24 PM
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that Fed is not trying to hit back , he is just blocking back so he doesnt require that much time to prepare himself or to put in position.

best post sofar and also all of you that think his placement is not good then you need to watch some more of his machts and think is that was 120ish would it have been a ace.

i think why alot of people think it's just brute power is cuse he dose gets some aces thoghe just pace and thats all they see

Nadal_Freak
03-03-2009, 12:44 PM
Ask Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray that same question. It's not only Federer that can read Roddick's serve.

veroniquem
03-03-2009, 12:50 PM
Who cannot?

thejoe
03-03-2009, 12:53 PM
Ask Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray that same question. It's not only Federer that can read Roddick's serve.

Arguably, Federer reads it better than any of them.

Nadal only leads Roddick 4-2, with Djoker it is 2-2 and Murray it is 6-2. Federer leads 16-2, and has had far less trouble with him than the other three. Is it beyond you to admit that Nadal isn't better than everyone in all areas?

helloworld
03-03-2009, 12:53 PM
Ask Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray that same question. It's not only Federer that can read Roddick's serve.

Nadal can't read roddick's serve. He always struggle to get Roddick's serve back into play. The first match they met, Nadal was completely blown away by Roddick's serve alone. Djokovic and Murray can read Roddick's serve pretty well, but nowhere as good as Roger. Roger is the best at handling Roddick's serve.

veroniquem
03-03-2009, 12:57 PM
Arguably, Federer reads it better than any of them.

Nadal only leads Roddick 4-2, with Djoker it is 2-2 and Murray it is 6-2. Federer leads 16-2, and has had far less trouble with him than the other three. Is it beyond you to admit that Nadal isn't better than everyone in all areas?
What do you mean "only"? According to your numbers, Roddick has beaten all of them "only" twice, so what's the difference? Of course Federer has played Roddick many more times but that's because he (like Roddick) is 5 or 6 years older than Nadal, Djoko and Murray.

thejoe
03-03-2009, 01:04 PM
What do you mean "only"? According to your numbers, Roddick has beaten all of them "only" twice, so what's the difference? Of course Federer has played Roddick many more times but that's because he (like Roddick) is 5 or 6 years older than Nadal, Djoko and Murray.

What are you struggling to comprehend? Of course there is a difference. I am saying that out of 6 matches with Nadal, Roddick already has two wins. He has the same number of wins from 18 matches with Roger. This indicates that Roger has far less trouble putting Roddick away. I have never seen Roger totally overpowered (i.e. served off the court) by Roddick, but that seemed to be the case in Dubai last year for Rafa.

VivalaVida
03-03-2009, 01:05 PM
What are you struggling to comprehend? Of course there is a difference. I am saying that out of 6 matches with Nadal, Roddick already has two wins. He has the same number of wins from 18 matches with Roger. This indicates that Roger has far less trouble putting Roddick away. I have never seen Roger totally overpowered (i.e. served off the court) by Roddick, but that seemed to be the case in Dubai last year for Rafa.
dont even go towards the win in Dubai. Nadal ***** will bring out the excuses.

Fedace
03-03-2009, 01:09 PM
Roddick has two different motions for his wide and down the middle serve. If he goes up the T his knee bend is not so extreme. When he goes out wide on either side he has a extreme knee bend. Watch for it it is pretty obvious.

Ok, then why isn't every Pro out there able to read Roddick's serve ? Guys like James Blake looks clueless out there.

veroniquem
03-03-2009, 01:15 PM
What are you struggling to comprehend? Of course there is a difference. I am saying that out of 6 matches with Nadal, Roddick already has two wins. He has the same number of wins from 18 matches with Roger. This indicates that Roger has far less trouble putting Roddick away. I have never seen Roger totally overpowered (i.e. served off the court) by Roddick, but that seemed to be the case in Dubai last year for Rafa.
And I'm saying that all the players you've mentioned lost 2 matches to Roddick, so how does that prove that some are struggling against Roddick and some are not? When Roddick wins a third match vs the top 3 then maybe you'll have a point.

thejoe
03-03-2009, 01:21 PM
And I'm saying that all the players you've mentioned lost 2 matches to Roddick, so how does that prove that some are struggling against Roddick and some are not? When Roddick wins a third match vs the top 3 then maybe you'll have a point.

Yes, A-Rod has won the same ammount of matches against all of them, but from a smaller pool of matches.

If a team starts the season 4-2 from 6 games, is that record just as good as a team who have gone 16-2 from 18 matches?

veroniquem
03-03-2009, 01:21 PM
dont even go towards the win in Dubai. Nadal ***** will bring out the excuses.
Why? It was fair and square. Roddick played his best tournament of the year at Dubai 2008 and his best tennis in the following month. He beat Nadal and Djoko to win the title and proceeded to beat Federer in the quarters of Miami master. The only thing that proves is when Roddick plays his best on hard court neither Nadal, nor Djoko, nor Fed can beat him (in best of 3 at least). Too bad he doesn't play his best more often!

thejoe
03-03-2009, 01:24 PM
Why? It was fair and square. Roddick played his best tournament of the year at Dubai 2008 and his best tennis in the following month. He beat Nadal and Djoko to win the title and proceeded to beat Federer in the quarters of Miami master. The only thing that proves is when Roddick plays his best on hard court neither Nadal, nor Djoko, nor Fed can beat him (in best of 3 at least). Too bad he doesn't play his best more often!

Nonsense. Roddick has played great against Federer at the Masters Cup many times and lost. It proves that they didn't play well enough to beat him on that day.

veroniquem
03-03-2009, 01:25 PM
Yes, A-Rod has won the same ammount of matches against all of them, but from a smaller pool of matches.

If a team starts the season 4-2 from 6 games, is that record just as good as a team who have gone 16-2 from 18 matches?
It is not Murray, Nadal or Djokovic's fault if they are 5 or 6 years younger than Federer and Roddick, of course they haven't met as often! "2" is not a high enough number to draw conclusions from it regardless of number of times played especially when Roddick is still clearly LOSING the head to head vs all of them (except for Djoko). Gee, It's like talking to deaf people!

veroniquem
03-03-2009, 01:27 PM
Nonsense. Roddick has played great against Federer at the Masters Cup many times and lost. It proves that they didn't play well enough to beat him on that day.
It's always a combination of both: player A played great, player B played worse, so what? You still don't have a point + saying that doesn't explain why the top 3 players lost to Roddick within a 2 month period. Saying that Roddick was in great shape does.

thejoe
03-03-2009, 01:31 PM
It is not Murray, Nadal or Djokovic's fault if they are 5 or 6 years younger than Federer and Roddick, of course they haven't met as often! "2" is not a high enough number to draw conclusions from it regardless of number of times played especially when Roddick is still clearly LOSING the head to head vs all of them (except for Djoko). Gee, It's like talking to deaf people!

Of course it isn't their fault, but it took Federer "5-6 years" to lose two matches to Roddick, where as it has taken far less time for the others to lost two a piece. It is a big enough number to draw a conclusion from. I resent that comment as well. We have a difference in opinion, that is all. Do you come here every day for people to agree with you? It is clear you like to see yourself as some sort of wise oracle, but really, you are just a slightly less subjective version of Nadal_Freak, with a slightly less offensive posting style.

It's always a combination of both: player A played great, player B played worse, so what? You still don't have a point.

And you have a point claiming that Roddick is too good on hardcourts for the big 4, when he is "on." That simply isn't true.

veroniquem
03-03-2009, 01:38 PM
Of course it isn't their fault, but it took Federer "5-6 years" to lose two matches to Roddick, where as it has taken far less time for the others to lost two a piece. It is a big enough number to draw a conclusion from. I resent that comment as well. We have a difference in opinion, that is all. Do you come here every day for people to agree with you? It is clear you like to see yourself as some sort of wise oracle, but really, you are just a slightly less subjective version of Nadal_Freak, with a slightly less offensive posting style.



And you have a point claiming that Roddick is too good on hardcourts for the big 4, when he is "on." That simply isn't true.
Hey I agree to disagree, no problem. I'm sorry that I don't find losing 1 match to Roddick vs 2 very significant. I am not disputing the fact that Federer "owns" Roddick, not at all. I'm just saying the other guys you mentioned might end up owning him too, they just haven't played often enough for that to be clear yet.

veroniquem
03-03-2009, 01:43 PM
And you have a point claiming that Roddick is too good on hardcourts for the big 4, when he is "on." That simply isn't true.
Why? Because you said so? Did he or did he not beat Nadal, Djokovic and Federer in February-March 2008? That's a fact, not an opinion!

tintin
03-03-2009, 02:17 PM
Why? It was fair and square. Roddick played his best tournament of the year at Dubai 2008 and his best tennis in the following month. He beat Nadal and Djoko to win the title and proceeded to beat Federer in the quarters of Miami master. The only thing that proves is when Roddick plays his best on hard court neither Nadal, nor Djoko, nor Fed can beat him (in best of 3 at least). Too bad he doesn't play his best more often!

what a load of horse manure this part.USO 2007 comes to mind and look what happend to Roddick.Went down in straight sets and he was playing out of his mind during the mind so don't give me that ***** :roll:

Nadal_Freak
03-03-2009, 02:22 PM
Nadal can't read roddick's serve. He always struggle to get Roddick's serve back into play. The first match they met, Nadal was completely blown away by Roddick's serve alone. Djokovic and Murray can read Roddick's serve pretty well, but nowhere as good as Roger. Roger is the best at handling Roddick's serve.
Blah blah. They all own Roddick. Federer doesn't do anything more then them. It just happens Fed played Roddick more in his prime then the others.

veroniquem
03-03-2009, 02:22 PM
what a load of horse manure this part.USO 2007 comes to mind and look what happend to Roddick.Went down in straight sets and he was playing out of his mind during the mind so don't give me that ***** :roll:
Maybe Fed 2008 wasn't exactly the same as Fed 2007 or Roddick can't do in best of 5 what he did in best of 3. I don't know, I don't have an interpretation ready, I just gave a FACT.

Beasty54
03-03-2009, 03:06 PM
what a load of horse manure this part.USO 2007 comes to mind and look what happend to Roddick.Went down in straight sets and he was playing out of his mind during the mind so don't give me that ***** :roll:

If you watched this match, Fed also played at an impeccibly high level. If he would have played like he did in the final, in that match, it would have been totally different.

FD3S
03-03-2009, 03:17 PM
Blah blah. They all own Roddick. Federer doesn't do anything more then them. It just happens Fed played Roddick more in his prime then the others.

"Blah blah?" Djokovic and Roddick are 2-2, and a 4-2 lead by Nadal is hardly domination. Federer's returns of Roddick's serve are by far the best of the four. To look at your favorite player, Nadal has NEVER had an easy time with Roddick's serve the way Federer does (well, outside of the US Open, and even then he returns it pretty well in comparison.)

Tempest344
03-03-2009, 03:59 PM
because he is federer

fastdunn
03-03-2009, 04:07 PM
Who cannot?

my sentiment too. roddick's serves are somewhat predictable. still works well just enough for 99% of players on faster surfaces excepts, say, top 5 players in the world. that's why he is at #6, so to speak.

Nadal_Freak
03-03-2009, 04:10 PM
"Blah blah?" Djokovic and Roddick are 2-2, and a 4-2 lead by Nadal is hardly domination. Federer's returns of Roddick's serve are by far the best of the four. To look at your favorite player, Nadal has NEVER had an easy time with Roddick's serve the way Federer does (well, outside of the US Open, and even then he returns it pretty well in comparison.)
That US Open shouldn't count. That was prime Roddick against a 17 year old Nadal. So it is 4-1 Nadal after that. Murray also was playing Roddick before he became a top 5 player. Federer got to play Roddick from the start of his prime. He still lost 2 times and almost lost 3 times. Roddick just doesn't do well against the top players in the world. His game is too one-dimensional.

T1000
03-03-2009, 04:22 PM
That US Open shouldn't count. That was prime Roddick against a 17 year old Nadal. So it is 4-1 Nadal after that. Murray also was playing Roddick before he became a top 5 player. Federer got to play Roddick from the start of his prime. He still lost 2 times and almost lost 3 times. Roddick just doesn't do well against the top players in the world. His game is too one-dimensional.

Nadal's win at Queens shouldn't count because Roddick was just coming off a rotator cuff injury and wasn;t ready and he barley lost. so its 3-1 Nadal. Nadal isn't good at reading Roddicks serve. There's no need to troll here. Let the flaming begin

Nadal_Freak
03-03-2009, 04:26 PM
Nadal's win at Queens shouldn't count because Roddick was just coming off a rotator cuff injury and wasn;t ready and he barley lost. so its 3-1 Nadal. Nadal isn't good at reading Roddicks serve. There's no need to troll here. Let the flaming begin
Lol. Look at Indian Wells then. Nadal was on fire and the announcers were saying how the conditions should benefit Roddick. The only real match to show evidence that Nadal struggled against Roddick was Dubai 2008. That was a lightning fast court btw. The courts in Madrid in 2008 Davis Cup were clay but very fast due to the elevation. Once again, no problems for Nadal to break Roddick. Roddick's serve just isn't as good as hyped to be. The rest of his game also seems to let him down in most big matches.

federerdomination
03-03-2009, 04:27 PM
That US Open shouldn't count. That was prime Roddick against a 17 year old Nadal. So it is 4-1 Nadal after that. Murray also was playing Roddick before he became a top 5 player. Federer got to play Roddick from the start of his prime. He still lost 2 times and almost lost 3 times. Roddick just doesn't do well against the top players in the world. His game is too one-dimensional.

Stop making excuses.

So should Nadal's win over Fed in the AO not count too because Fed is out of his prime? Using ur logic, no.

And let's analyze this mathematically. He lost 2 times out of 18 total times. That means Fed is winning against roddick over 88% of the time. Even using ur own 4-1 H2H statistic for Nadal's wins over roddick, that's only a 80% winning percentage.

The "almost" losses shouldn't count because once again, should we start considering the times Fed has almost beaten Nadal (i.e. Wimbledon 2008) and start removing those from their overall H2H? I think not. A loss is a loss.

Nadal_Freak
03-03-2009, 04:28 PM
Stop making excuses.

So should Nadal's win over Fed in the AO not count too because Fed is out of his prime? Using ur logic, no.

Henman owns Federer then. Look all the times Henman and Hrbaty beat Federer. Why does Fed struggle so much against them? That's about as worthy of a match as the Nadal/Roddick match of 2003 indicates.

JeMar
03-03-2009, 04:30 PM
i understand, but roddick hit 30 aces against agassi in queens and cincy, and agassi was probably the greatest returner ever with excellent reactions.

People forget Agassi was very, very, very easy to ace.

T1000
03-03-2009, 04:35 PM
Lol. Look at Indian Wells then. Nadal was on fire and the announcers were saying how the conditions should benefit Roddick. The only real match to show evidence that Nadal struggled against Roddick was Dubai 2008. That was a lightning fast court btw. The courts in Madrid in 2008 Davis Cup were clay but very fast due to the elevation. Once again, no problems for Nadal to break Roddick. Roddick's serve just isn't as good as hyped to be. The rest of his game also seems to let him down in most big matches.

two of Nadal's four wins were on clay, and Roddick is horrible on clay. We all know Nadal can't be beat on clay unless he's in a wheel chair (he'd probably beat most anyway) Those two wins really didn't show how good Nadal was at returning his serve. I will say Nadal did a good job at Indian Wells. He broke three times in that match, but was still aced 16 times. Federer dominates Roddick. Nadal's two wins on surfaces OTHER than clay show he doesn't dominate Roddick like Federer does

federerdomination
03-03-2009, 04:43 PM
Henman owns Federer then. Look all the times Henman and Hrbaty beat Federer. Why does Fed struggle so much against them? That's about as worthy of a match as the Nadal/Roddick match of 2003 indicates.

actually, for ur information, Fed has a WINNING H2H against Henman (7-6)
here's proof
http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/3/en/players/headtohead/default.asp?player1=federer&player2=henman

And Fed + Hrbaty played 3 times with fed winning 33% of the times which is better than Roddick does against both Fed and Nadal.

And all of Henman's wins against Fed are significant - whether he was young or not.

tennis_hand
03-03-2009, 06:27 PM
i understand, but roddick hit 30 aces against agassi in queens and cincy, and agassi was probably the greatest returner ever with excellent reactions.

that time Agassi is already near the end of his career. what do u expect?

veroniquem
03-03-2009, 06:38 PM
actually, for ur information, Fed has a WINNING H2H against Henman (7-6)
here's proof
http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/3/en/players/headtohead/default.asp?player1=federer&player2=henman

And Fed + Hrbaty played 3 times with fed winning 33% of the times which is better than Roddick does against both Fed and Nadal.

And all of Henman's wins against Fed are significant - whether he was young or not.
He's not talking about now with Henman but when Federer was 22, Henman led the head to head 6-1. What he meant is that in 2004 Nadal was just 18 (and before his breakthrough year in 2005) while Roddick was in his prime, maybe it counts but only in the same way as it counted that Henman "owned" Federer until 2004. (It was a temporary situation as Federer hadn't hit his prime yet).

Joseph L. Barrow
03-03-2009, 06:42 PM
Roddick doesn't hit a lot of aces because of his variety. He likes to keep people guessing by hitting the body serve often, something Federer can't do because he doesn't have the speed or placement to do it. That's why Federer aims for the corners on every serve.
"doesn't hit a lot of aces"?! The guy's #1 in aces on the tour so far this season, was #2 in aces last year, and has had a 1,000+ ace season. He doesn't hit a lot of aces against Federer.

The people saying Roddick doesn't have good placement are being a little ridiculous, in my opinion- the guy can blast the ball at 145 miles an hour and paint the lines with it, and can go out wide faster than most guys can with their hardest down-the-middle. With Federer, Roger doesn't try to hit the ball back with force, but just to block it or bunt it over the net, so he doesn't need to be really "set" to hit the return, allowing him to get his racket on more of them than most guys, in addition to his just having exceptionally fast reflexes and being a great reader of serves.

federerdomination
03-03-2009, 06:44 PM
He's not talking about now with Henman but when Federer was 22, Henman led the head to head 6-1. What he meant is that in 2004 Nadal was just 18 (and before his breakthrough year in 2005) while Roddick was in his prime, maybe it counts but only in the same way as it counted that Henman "owned" Federer until 2004. (It was a temporary situation as Federer hadn't hit his prime yet).

ok well than up until Fed as 22, he was "owned" by Henman. (and yes I do acknowledge that)

However, even if u want to only count the matches when Nadal was in his "prime" (assuming 2007 onwards), Nadal still only wins 75% of the time (despite the small sample size to begin with). Fed wins over 88% of the time.

defrule
03-03-2009, 06:52 PM
Roger can work with a conservative return, he just needs to get the point in play and work his way to the point quite well.

On the other hand, Roger's first serve not the fastest on tour but deadly in placement can get him aces. If it is returned, he still wins a large percentage of his first serve points.

Joseph L. Barrow
03-03-2009, 07:00 PM
That US Open shouldn't count. That was prime Roddick against a 17 year old Nadal. So it is 4-1 Nadal after that.
He was actually 18, and if we're going to discount matches based on excuses, then two of Nadal's four wins were on clay (of course he's going to handle him there) and one was when Roddick had had barely any match play after a layoff due to a severe shoulder injury. Therefore, I proclaim, they're 1-1 in "counting" matches- not really, but you get the point.

Murray also was playing Roddick before he became a top 5 player. Federer got to play Roddick from the start of his prime. He still lost 2 times and almost lost 3 times. Roddick just doesn't do well against the top players in the world. His game is too one-dimensional.
Roddick has as good a record against the elite guys as most of the other ranked players out there. In fact, I think he's the only guy on the tour to have at least two wins over all the big four.

Michael Bluth
03-03-2009, 07:16 PM
Saying Nadal was 18 in that match isn't that big of an excuse, he had already beaten Fed on hard courts, won an ATP title and been in the top 50.

roysid
03-03-2009, 09:26 PM
That's why matchups depend on face to face.
Roddick Federer is a bad matchup for Roddick. Fed just neutralises Roddick's serve and wins the rally as he wishes.

Federer Nadal is a bad matchup for Federer. Federer can't win rallies against Nadal. So he is forced into unforced errors.
Plus Federer doesn't attack Nadal's serve and usually gets unhappy.

Federer owns players like Davydenko, Youzhny who usually aren't intimidated by Nadal.

RoddickAce
03-03-2009, 09:29 PM
Roddick knows the most effective serve against fed, as noted by many commentators, is the body serve. So if Roddick keeps trying the body serve, Federer is obviously going to have an easier time reading the serve. This coupled with Fed's amazing reactions results in Fed neutralizing Roddick's serve, as Roddick doesn't serve and volley much.

Harry_Wild
03-03-2009, 09:51 PM
Roddick is the king of serves. If Federer could learn to serve better, he would still be number one in the world. Maybe, Federer will start to practice at the 3.0 NTRP so he can be competitive in his serves.

Further more; if Federer was able to return serves better; he would still be number one in the world. Maybe if he starts to practice return serves at the 2.5 NTRP level; he might be able to return Roddick's serve better.

Just joking around here! That was fun to write!

NamRanger
03-04-2009, 12:19 AM
That US Open shouldn't count. That was prime Roddick against a 17 year old Nadal. So it is 4-1 Nadal after that. Murray also was playing Roddick before he became a top 5 player. Federer got to play Roddick from the start of his prime. He still lost 2 times and almost lost 3 times. Roddick just doesn't do well against the top players in the world. His game is too one-dimensional.


Then we should eliminate all of Nadal's wins against players on clay, because he's too far superior and it shouldn't count.


Great logic.


Facts are facts. Roddick leads 2-1 on hardcourts, 0-2 on clay (both were Davis Cup matches). 0-1 on grass, a match which Roddick was coming off injury (which is a LEGITIMATE excuse, unlike the "prime" argument).

tahiti
03-04-2009, 09:00 AM
Arguably, Federer reads it better than any of them.

Nadal only leads Roddick 4-2, with Djoker it is 2-2 and Murray it is 6-2. Federer leads 16-2, and has had far less trouble with him than the other three. Is it beyond you to admit that Nadal isn't better than everyone in all areas?

18 matches Fed-Rod is triple Nadal-Rod 6. Nadal will increase the H2H.
Thing is Roddick can't beat Federer but he's been in the top 10 forever.
Maybe the serve has got nothing to do with it and Roddick needs to work on his game and not depend on the service, which many others have problems returning. Coz against Fed it doesn't work. Even if Fed only blocks it he still moves to the right side so he must know ARod's serve inside out.

roddickfan90
03-04-2009, 11:24 AM
actually, nadal leads arod 4-2 cuz when they played at queens, arod was still injured, and anyway arod's *** would get kicked by nadals on clay. BUt clay obviously counts in this H2H, but it should be 3-2 to nadal H2H

Joseph L. Barrow
03-04-2009, 01:06 PM
Saying Nadal was 18 in that match isn't that big of an excuse, he had already beaten Fed on hard courts, won an ATP title and been in the top 50.
And he would go on to clinch Davis Cup for Spain shortly thereafter with a clay-court win over Roddick, then tear up the clay season just a few months later. It's true that this match was substantially prior to Nadal's best, but this "editing" of head-to-head records business can go any which way, as I've previously pointed out- in most any extended head-to-head record, there have no doubt been meetings where each guy was not at his best for one reason or another.
So far, the only surface where Nadal has established a clear dominance over Roddick is clay, which is the surface on which he dominates everyone. Roddick has the edge so far on hardcourts, and Nadal beat him in a pretty close match in their only grass court meeting, but Roddick was fresh off a layoff and bad shoulder injury, and was accordingly not at his best, judging by his results shortly before and after this match. As for how Nadal handles Roddick's serve, again, clay courts largely neutralize the serve in and of themselves; in hard and grass court meetings, Roddick aced Nadal 16 times at Indian Wells, 17 in Dubai and 14 at Queens, and those were all matches that went only two sets. Nadal does still sometimes break Roddick, because Nadal is an incredible returner, but I think it's clear he doesn't have the same kind of neutralizing effect on Roddick's serve that a guy like Federer does.

P_Agony
03-04-2009, 01:17 PM
Ask Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray that same question. It's not only Federer that can read Roddick's serve.

Nadal's record with Roddick isn't as good as Fed's...Nadal leads just 4-2, while Federer leads 16-2.

Nobody reads Roddick's serve like Fed.

Joseph L. Barrow
03-04-2009, 01:30 PM
Nadal's record with Roddick isn't as good as Fed's...Nadal leads just 4-2, while Federer leads 16-2.

Nobody reads Roddick's serve like Fed.
Moreover, Federer's 16 wins have all come on surfaces both guys like (hard, grass, carpet). Nadal is 2-2 against Roddick on surfaces that don't neutralize his serve, Djokovic is 2-2 against Roddick period and Roddick registers aces and unreturned serves aplenty in his matches against them. Federer and Murray are the guys who've really got a bead on Roddick's serve.

devila
03-04-2009, 06:29 PM
The fact that Roddick can't have long arm reach..moves like Whale blubber... and mentally distracted himself on a yearly basis, make Federer and Murray, especially, look like geniuses.
Remember how Karlovic broke Federer's serve 2 years ago, and made
Federer whine last year about losing without losing serve?

abmk
03-05-2009, 02:37 AM
Remember how Karlovic broke Federer's serve 2 years ago, and made
Federer whine last year about losing without losing serve?

What ? Fed broke him in the second set. Their H2H is 6-1. One win in federer's slump year ( especially non-slam events ) doesn't prove much.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/3/en/players/headtohead/default.asp?player1=federer&player2=karlovic

Nadal didn't break karlovic even once in the match he won in queens in his best year ( so far ) on grass ...

mikeler
03-05-2009, 05:05 AM
I think this story came up when they were talking about Fed returning Roddick's serve. Agassi was in the commentators booth at the US Open the year after he retired. He told a story about how Boris Becker used to say that everytime he served, he felt like Agassi could read his brain and know exactly where he was going. What Agassi had figured out is that when Boris would stick his tongue out before he served, the direction he would stick his tongue out would dictate the direction of his serve! Agassi said that Becker stopped doing that later in his career which made it tougher to return his serve. Roddick may have some tick that Federer has picked up on.

coloskier
03-05-2009, 07:36 AM
It may have been brought up earlier, but Roddick doesn't hit the corners like other big servers do. He just depends on pace. If he had Sampras's accuracy along with his pace, Fed would have a lot tougher time. But like has been mentioned, a lot of players are successful returning Roddick's serve because Roddick has no clue what to do with a high deep floating blocked return.

Sir Andrew of Roddick
03-05-2009, 08:34 AM
Look at Roddick when Federer returns his serve, he has absolutely no clue as of what to do next, simply because Federer is going to out-do him everytime. What Roddick should be doing is hitting the ball harder, leaving Federer less time to react, but as we all know, he just can't do it like he used to.

devila
03-05-2009, 11:09 AM
Typical Roddick shamelessness, isn't it? He's pleased with his happy-go-lucky attitude. Buy a barely legal, rich model girlfriend...and get worship from his greedy relatives (his bro Lawrence's now involved with Davis Cup promotion, but he avoids his own Divorce Court child visitation responsibility).

devila
03-05-2009, 11:12 AM
What ? Fed broke him in the second set. Their H2H is 6-1. One win in federer's slump year ( especially non-slam events ) doesn't prove much.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/3/en/players/headtohead/default.asp?player1=federer&player2=karlovic

Nadal didn't break karlovic even once in the match he won in queens in his best year ( so far ) on grass ...

Did you see the previous Karlovic match when he broke Federer's serve? Uh, I guess not.
It's all about Nadal and Federer?

pmerk34
03-05-2009, 01:26 PM
dont even go towards the win in Dubai. Nadal ***** will bring out the excuses.

They always do.

Staiger
03-05-2009, 01:53 PM
Maybe he is not that accurate on the placement or he cant get the angle serving out-wide to damage Federer. I think Roger is doing a good thing in just blocking those 120+ serve

NamRanger
03-05-2009, 01:55 PM
They always do.


The excuse was that the courts were lightning fast, when in fact that those courts are only about as fast as USO courts.


Roddick won that match because he was serving out of his mind. His ground game was abit more aggressive too. He served something like 12 aces in one set.

wangs78
03-05-2009, 03:38 PM
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that Fed is not trying to hit back , he is just blocking back so he doesnt require that much time to prepare himself or to put in position.

This is actually a very good point. Fed's ground game is so much better than Roddick's that he can feel very confident of blocking back, thereby giving Roddick an easy ball to hit, and yet still win the point ultimately. With someone like Murray, Fed would need to try for more on the returns.