1h backhand shoulder rotation

[gangster33]

When hitting a 1hbackhand are you suppose to rotate your upperbody + shoulders? When federer plays he doesnt seem to have any upper body rotation.

[oneguy21]

keep it closed and focus more on your weight moving forward.

[Dreamer]

You don't generate power from opening your shoulders like you would a forehand. You transfer weight from your legs to your shoulders, and move your weight forward with a low to high stroke. Your body should open after contact.

[Djokovicfan4life]

As said before, the shoulder rotation is not the primary source of power, but merely a byproduct of other elements of a player's technique. The shoulders should open no further than about 45 degrees to the net for the one handed backhand.

Matt

[JohnYandell]

Complex question, more so than it appears. After contact the one-handers open up little, as someone said, and sometimes stay completely closed. More extreme grips mean more open.

BUT if you look at the stance you see something else. This is not widely understood but if you look at a few hundred pro one handers you'll see that the huge majority are hit with radically closed stances. This is by choice and has to do with the shoulders.
Stepping across naturally increases the shoulder turn--the old turn your back to the net thing--though not really that extreme. From this position there IS substantial rotation to the contact.

Around the middle of the court you tend to see more neutral stance with less rotation. This is the model most players should try for. The radical closed stance is a high level pro deal.

[Mountain Ghost]

I just want to caution anyone learning a 1HBH who might interpret what John said as to mean it would be OK to visualize (or to consciously enable) this rotating of the shoulders prior to contact. There is already a natural tendency to “want” to rotate the shoulders on the forward swing of a 1HBH, and this is the downfall of most everyone who tries to develop the shot without the help of an alert teaching pro.

John says that from the backswing position . . . “there IS substantial rotation to contact.” But he also says . . . “After contact the one-handers open up little, as someone said, and sometimes stay completely closed.”

One of the primary focal points for all (but relatively advanced) players trying to develop a 1HBH is to “resist” rotating the shoulders and to stay completely closed at contact. Otherwise the elbow leads, the racquet head doesn’t make it around in time and the resultant swing is across the body, instead of out and up.

MG

[Element54]

As said before, the shoulder rotation is not the primary source of power, but merely a byproduct

I agree, its different to a forehand (shoulder rotation i mean)

[JohnYandell]

Right MG. I agree. And one of the big problems is the implicit assumption at the start of this thread which is "what do the pros do? That's what I should do." That is a complex and thorny issue and related to levels as well.

There is a huge difference between what might actually happen and what you should try to model or key.

Personally I like the old Stan Smith sybervision image where the torso stays completely sideways! In the pros I like the balls near the center where you see more of this too. But it's very interesting to see how the greatest players--wtihout listening to coaches or anyone on this board, that's for sure, have all evolved this closed stance torso rotation component.

[LeeD]

One less often used case to counter....backhand top.
Crosscourt topspin return of serve, where you have less time to turn shoulders fully, employing a semi open shouldered stance off a hard hit ball, you can add forward racket acceleration with a slight opening of the torso, leading the racket thru quicker to get more short angle top returns.
Well, at least it works for me, when the extra crosscourt angle is needed maybe to fend off a poacher.

[larry10s]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUQxb4ZtR-4 look at the shoulder rotation to start. hes looking over his shoulder and his back is almost completely turned to the net. he rotates into the contact but stays pretty sideways thru the hit starts to open alittle as he releases

[larry10s]

john yandells website had a series done by him analysing the 1 handed backhand .it helped me TREMENDOUSLY in learning how to hit one and the acceptable variations. i highly reccommend johns site as a great resource for tennis knowledge in many areas http://www.tennisplayer.net/

[LeeD]

Yeah, Gasquet has a nice 1bh groundie...
I consider the 1bh return of serve a different animal than the basic 1bh groundie, as more incoming ball speed, and in some cases, more angle crosscourt is needed, so I personally (maybe not for yous) employ some opening of the torso against fast hit serves to my backhand. Elbow locked to torso, torso twist faster than shoulder swing, so it adds more crosscourt angle to my returns when needed against a poaching netman.

[larry10s]

i find that since my backhnd return is hit sometimes in a semiopen stance i will also be more open on contact compared to when i can step in or across

[LeeD]

Yes, and that semi open stance allows your body to unwind quickly and forcefully during the forward stroke of the 1bh crosscourt return of serve.

[GPB]

Back to the "typical" stroke, instead of the return-of-serve, I think the reason for keeping your non-hitting hand back behind you is to reduce the shoulder rotation. The high school coaches in the area have the kids visualize that they're elbowing somebody behind them, to get that arm back there and keep the shoulders sideways.

For what it's worth...

[larry10s]

others say to make the "safe sign" like an umpire in baseball. btw^^^^^ what are the specs of your vantage

[GPB]

btw^^^^^ what are the specs of your vantage

Well, I don't even know anymore. It started out as a VT002 (about 330g, 8ish pts hl?) then I laid out some lead all the way from 9 to 3 (under the bumper in the 12:00 range) with a couple layers at 3 and 9. To rebalance it out, I gave it a silicone job and added a ton of lead to the handle (some even inside the silicone). It weighed 14.1oz at 8pts headlight, and hit one #e!! of a heavy ball.

However, I was late a lot and couldn't quite handle it the way I should, so I took off about 6" of lead from the 12:00 position, a little from the 3&9, and a bit from the handle. I haven't remeasured or weighed it since the most recent modifications, but I know it's still not quite perfect. I guess you could say I'm going by feel and not by the numbers.

I think the SW I'm looking for is about 350, but we'll see - it's a work in progress!

[RalphNYC]

Here are three great examples from the master which go a long way towards answering your question...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLL8C7cBIC4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RORTYH588cE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9az5qWcLOTk&NR=1

[jmjmkim]

Since I have a one hand bh, I can throw a frisbee pretty well too. Do you think these are kind of related? Sometimes, I glide my backhand from low to high like I would throw a frisbee that would climb . . . it feels pretty good.

[BreakPoint]

I think what's important to remember in hitting a 1HBH is to try and keep the rest of your body and your head still while swinging only your arm. That provides your shot with more control and consistency.

[gzhpcu]

Here is a good video instruction on it....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpLApIuLGV4&feature=channel

[stormholloway]

For me, the one hander is all about the legs, whether it be related to court positioning or to getting my weight moving forward or a combination of both. Once you understand the racquet path needed for the shot it's all about getting those legs working properly. That's my biggest problem.

[LeeD]

I think that vid is ridiculous.
Yes, the guy does know how to hit a one handed topspin backhand, no doubt.
But his first examples are samples of shots hit by 2.0 players. A good player, when out of position, can hit deep, penetrating slices with wide open stances easily.
And a good player can return hard serves with topspin backhands, with WIDE OPEN stances.
Maybe IN THEORY, we should close off our stances for topspin backhands, but the shot should be taught with the swing first, the shoulder turns second, and the closed stance last. With a good first two, the need for a perfect third is slightly lessened.
OTOH, I don't claim to be a good player. But I can hit consistent topspin one handed backhands with closed, straight, or openstances.

[stormholloway]

^^^Agreed.

His examples of 'what not to do' are backhands that a complete hacker would hit. The video doesn't seem to be aimed at players who are close to finding their stroke but not quite there.

As far as stances go, I find as long as you turn your shoulder you can find power in an open stance, especially if you load the non-dominant leg.

[Djokovicfan4life]

For me, the one hander is all about the legs, whether it be related to court positioning or to getting my weight moving forward or a combination of both. Once you understand the racquet path needed for the shot it's all about getting those legs working properly. That's my biggest problem.
God bless you for not bringing up the "point of contact". Good post.

The legs and weight transfer are the most important things as far as technique is concerned. The REALLY tricky part is your eyes and getting them to judge the incoming ball efficiently. You can't get the weight transfer if your contact point is screwy.

Matt

[Verno Inferno]

The REALLY tricky part is your eyes and getting them to judge the incoming ball efficiently. You can't get the weight transfer if your contact point is screwy.

Matt

I read something similar to this several months ago and it was a huge eye opener on backhands for me. Someone pointed out that most of us don't turn our heads and look at the ball on the backhand side the way we do with our forehands.

Unlike on the forehand side, with the backhand a lot of us (definitely me) turn our shoulders and set up in a closed stance without turning our heads to look at the ball. Instead, we're sort of looking at the ball with only one eye (right eye for us right-handers)---making depth perception really wonky. So we time it all wrong and everything's a mess.

I've been so lazy my entire life that getting my chin over my right shoulder (like this) to see the ball is a huge task:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUQxb4ZtR-4&feature=related

[swedechris]

i like Tommy Robredos intensity and energy.. he does have a strange and sometimes jearky backnad action though .. to me it looks like he tears at it and uses a lot of amr and quite little body weight transfer to generate his pace. anyone got thoughts on his motion/ technique?

[swedechris]

i like Tommy Robredos intensity and energy.. he does have a strange and sometimes jerky backhand action though .. to me it looks like he tears at it and uses a lot of arm and quite little body weight transfer to generate his pace. anyone got thoughts on his motion/ technique?

[jmjmkim]

A good steady head is what I focus on.

[BreakPoint]

I read something similar to this several months ago and it was a huge eye opener on backhands for me. Someone pointed out that most of us don't turn our heads and look at the ball on the backhand side the way we do with our forehands.

Unlike on the forehand side, with the backhand a lot of us (definitely me) turn our shoulders and set up in a closed stance without turning our heads to look at the ball. Instead, we're sort of looking at the ball with only one eye (right eye for us right-handers)---making depth perception really wonky. So we time it all wrong and everything's a mess.

I've been so lazy my entire life that getting my chin over my right shoulder (like this) to see the ball is a huge task:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUQxb4ZtR-4&feature=related
Actually, for me, it's much, much easier to watch the ball to contact on my 1-handed backhands than it is on my forehands. This is because the 1HBH is hit so far out in front of the body that you can watch the whole ball until it hits your racquet which should be way out in front of you at the contact point. On the forehand, the ball has to travel further to much closer to your body to when it's almost to the side of you before you hit it so it's much more difficult for me to keep my eyes on the ball as I tend to look forward to where the ball was when it passed in front of me instead of turning my head all the way to the side while watching the ball make contact with my racquet. I'm essentially hitting my forehands "blind" by feel and my estimate of the trajectory of the ball in those last several feet before I hit it. Not so on my backhands.