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JuliusWinto
03-11-2009, 08:12 AM
I just read a very good article about the incident in 2001. I didn't know what happened or what allegedly happened at at all. Very informative. What do you think? Is racism the reason the Williams sisters have not been back to the tournament? Did Dementieva's comments expose Richard's matchfixing ways? http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/columns/story?columnist=drucker_joel&id=3952939

:confused:

JoshDragon
03-11-2009, 08:17 AM
I just read a very good article about the incident in 2001. I didn't know what happened or what allegedly happened at at all. Very informative. What do you think? Is racism the reason the Williams sisters have not been back to the tournament? Did Dementieva's comments expose Richard's matchfixing ways? http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/columns/story?columnist=drucker_joel&id=3952939

:confused:

I believe Richard Williams is a racist. I've heard some of his comments before.

I have no respect for him.

Jimmyk459
03-11-2009, 08:31 AM
what a load of ****... Serena says that she doesn't really pay attention and then later says that she had life-altering things happen there. Thats a lot of bull.

But I can understand if they want to support the mistakes of their father. I simply believe that because he is such a nut, that they felt that they should go along with whatever he said to avoid hurting his "sterling" reputation.

He is their father after all.

JuliusWinto
03-11-2009, 08:35 AM
Yeah, it would be hard to contradict your father in the global media. My favorite part was when she said she heard whatever racist things her father heard. And answering questions with other questions. I'm surprised they've never been back. I'm sure the boos were loud, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

edmondsm
03-11-2009, 09:24 AM
Obviously Venus didn't hear any racist comments. Her rhetorical responses to the questions about her father's allegations scream to me that she is trying to maintain plausible deniability, not contradicting her father or outwordly saying that there were racist comments.

Richard Williams is a complete nut. It's amazing that his daughters turned out normal in any way.

saram
03-11-2009, 10:40 AM
You guys pretty much summed up my thoughts.

They got booed.

Richard got upset.

Richard did his usual antics.

Sisters paid for his actions and remarks.

Can't offend their father.

Richard Williams is what I try and clean out of my shower on a weekly basis....

gj011
03-11-2009, 10:44 AM
I have a question. Why are sisters not penalized according to WTA rules for missing a mandatory tournament?

Under „Roadmap” rules, any top player skipping Indian Wells should receive zero ranking points and be ineligible for the following two tournament weeks.

Nadal was penalized with 0-pointer by ATP for skipping Dubai, so why are sisters getting special treatment? According to the rules they should be fined, awarded 0-pointer and be suspended for Miami as well.

saram
03-11-2009, 10:51 AM
I have a question. Why are sisters not penalized according to WTA rules for missing a mandatory tournament?



Nadal was penalized with 0-pointer by ATP for skipping Dubai, so why are sisters getting special treatment? According to the rules they should be fined, awarded 0-pointer and be suspended for Miami as well.

You know--I asked myself the same question and almost posted a thread about it the other day showing an article about it. Let me see if I can find the article for you. But you are right--according to the rules--they should be penalized. Let me go search for ya.

saram
03-11-2009, 10:51 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/blog/ten_experts/post/The-Monday-Slice-All-the-wrong-moves;_ylt=AraC6zub2zbIzGay5GrelK04v7YF?urn=ten,14 6783

boredone3456
03-11-2009, 11:00 AM
Richard Williams loves to spout claims of racism against his daughters. He probably didn't like Venus and Serena getting booed even though Venus waited till the last possible second to withdraw, and jumped to the conclusion that "lord forbid fans be mad they were cheated out of a match they paid good money to see...no no it must be racism against my daughters". Frankly, Richard should just keep quiet sometimes, because his comments do nothing but hurt Venus and Serena instead of helping them.

As for the Williams promoting Indian Wells, not going to happen. It would not exactly make Daddy look good or them for that matter as they have supported him about it since it happened. In all honesty, rules are rules and they better be prepared for the punishments that are handed down on them for skipping it. Although if they are Richard will probably just say that the tour must be racist to.

saram
03-11-2009, 11:12 AM
^^you and I have the same crystal ball...

nikdom
03-11-2009, 11:34 AM
Look what the tournament director said though -

Monday, March 26

Nine days after the Indian Wells final, a USA Today article appears containing these comments from Richard Williams: "When Venus and I were walking down the stairs to our seats, people kept calling me 'n-----.' One said, 'I wish it was '75, we'd skin you alive.' I think Indian Wells disgraced America."

Indian Wells tournament director Charlie Pasarell also is quoted in the article: "I was cringing when all that stuff was going on. It was unfair for the crowd to do that."

I take that as acknowledgement that he heard or saw something which shouldn't have happened.

saram
03-11-2009, 11:37 AM
Look what the tournament director said though -



I take that as acknowledgement that he heard or saw something which shouldn't have happened.

It appears though, from the article--that Richard W. was the only one in the nearly 15,000+ people in attendance that heard anything racist.

He is the same person to call Chris Evert "white trash".

nikdom
03-11-2009, 12:04 PM
It appears though, from the article--that Richard W. was the only one in the nearly 15,000+ people in attendance that heard anything racist.

He is the same person to call Chris Evert "white trash".

I have no doubt Richard is a nutcase. But that does not preclude the fact he may have heard something racist that day. Did they interview all the people in attendance? Is it not possible someone in the crowd closer to the williams spewed something racist audible only to a few? Does everyone who hears another person spew a racial insult choose to get involved? - it might very well be possible that someone that heard something will deny any knowledge not to get involved.

The bottom line is - we cannot be judges of whether Richard Williams was indeed racially heckled or if he sees the heckling through the prism of race or if he is intentionally playing the race card?

But here's what we should ask ourselves - if the Williams family is indeed playing the race card what exactly are they gaining by boycotting the tournament? From their perspective, its not like they're making free money or something by not attending - if anything, they probably are giving up the chance to make some serious money.

I'm no fan of the Williams sisters. Their on-court demeanour and grunting, ungracious press conferences and off-court preening put me off. I also definitely think Richard is a loony.

But I'm willing to give it to them that they are the judges to whether they were truly racially slighted. No one else can make that judgment for them. Especially when they're leaving money on the table for it.

gj011
03-11-2009, 12:05 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/blog/ten_experts/post/The-Monday-Slice-All-the-wrong-moves;_ylt=AraC6zub2zbIzGay5GrelK04v7YF?urn=ten,14 6783

Thanks. So rules are bent for them. I guess they didn't want to risk sisters' suspension affecting Miami ratings and attendance.

I wonder if WTA would do the same for some other player.

WTA and ATP look ridiculous with all those new rules they do not want to enforce on everybody. Why have those rules then?

Telepatic
03-11-2009, 12:13 PM
Thanks. So rules are bent for them. I guess they didn't want to risk sisters' suspension affecting Miami ratings and attendance.

I wonder if WTA would do the same for some other player.


Haha, WTA hates white ppl! :D

*breaksracquet
03-11-2009, 12:29 PM
Huh, I don't understand the ruling that if they're within 125 miles of the tournament site, then either one is in violation of the WTA rules of them appearing at the tournament? And if they are, and are not participating, then they must perform some type of event to attract attendance? I'm I getting that right?

m.dubya24
03-11-2009, 12:41 PM
why is this always such a hot topic?

1. venus shouldn't have pulled out at the last minute (should have been at least 30 minutes before)

2. Dementieva should not have commented on the situation. that was probably was escalated the situation even more

3. the crowd regaurdless shouldn't not have acted that way even if the were mad. that just shows low class to be shouting racial comments in a mob mentality sorta way

3. Richard should have left his comments out of it. things would have cooled over much more easily and simple, even if he was trying to protect his girls.

things are done and cannot be taken back. simple as that.

thalivest
03-11-2009, 01:17 PM
Richard Williams is a much bigger racist than almost any of the people he lashes his unfound racism whines towards. Isnt he also a wife beater, I heard that was what the divorce was based from at the time. Anyway the guy is scum who is just lucky to have two unbelievably talented daughters who make him famous and make him rich. I dont ever care what his opinions are on anything.

gj011
03-11-2009, 01:24 PM
Haha, WTA hates white ppl! :D

I wasn't talking about a race. WTA couldn't care less about it. They care about money and only money.

So if rules are enforced, Williams sisters will be suspended for Miami, Miami ratings and attendance would suffer since biggest US stars would be missing, hence less money for everyone, hence the WTA will play dumb and bend the rules. What is the point of new rules then?

The another question is would they do that for everyone, or just if it would greatly affect the revenue. I am sure it is latter and that is not right.
Rules should be the same for every player.

saram
03-11-2009, 01:24 PM
I have no doubt Richard is a nutcase. But that does not preclude the fact he may have heard something racist that day. Did they interview all the people in attendance? Is it not possible someone in the crowd closer to the williams spewed something racist audible only to a few? Does everyone who hears another person spew a racial insult choose to get involved? - it might very well be possible that someone that heard something will deny any knowledge not to get involved.

The bottom line is - we cannot be judges of whether Richard Williams was indeed racially heckled or if he sees the heckling through the prism of race or if he is intentionally playing the race card?

But here's what we should ask ourselves - if the Williams family is indeed playing the race card what exactly are they gaining by boycotting the tournament? From their perspective, its not like they're making free money or something by not attending - if anything, they probably are giving up the chance to make some serious money.

I'm no fan of the Williams sisters. Their on-court demeanour and grunting, ungracious press conferences and off-court preening put me off. I also definitely think Richard is a loony.

But I'm willing to give it to them that they are the judges to whether they were truly racially slighted. No one else can make that judgment for them. Especially when they're leaving money on the table for it.

Go read the part where the copy editor was sitting next to Richard and heard nothing and then post again, please.

saram
03-11-2009, 01:25 PM
Richard Williams is a much bigger racist than almost any of the people he lashes his unfound racism whines towards. Isnt he also a wife beater, I heard that was what the divorce was based from at the time. Anyway the guy is scum who is just lucky to have two unbelievably talented daughters who make him famous and make him rich. I dont ever care what his opinions are on anything.

I agree. Such a shame that two talented players like Venus and Serena have a father like Richard. I have also heard about the divorce--but it is all rumors at this end. I have never actually read anything in print about it.

nikdom
03-11-2009, 01:33 PM
Go read the part where the copy editor was sitting next to Richard and heard nothing and then post again, please.

Was the copy editor walking with them to the stands when Richard alleges he heard the racist comments?

Maybe you should be the one read up again.

"When Venus and I were walking down the stairs to our seats, people kept calling me 'n-----.' One said, 'I wish it was '75, we'd skin you alive.' I think Indian Wells disgraced America."

GS
03-11-2009, 01:33 PM
Remember when Venus was in her first Wimbledon final years ago, and Richard was sitting in the stands with a blackboard, eraser and chalk, and writing various weird slogans? Like, "It's Venus' party and no one else is invited."
No wonder his wife divorced him.

KwangSunPark
03-11-2009, 01:35 PM
I think some people on this forum are racist and just hate on the williams sisters.

simi
03-11-2009, 02:24 PM
I have a question. Why are sisters not penalized according to WTA rules for missing a mandatory tournament?...

When you're "special", you get special treatment. Just the way the world works.

This weekend will be my fourth straight visit to IW...and I don't miss the sisters for even a moment. They just don't enter into consciousness. Too much good play going on.

split-step
03-11-2009, 07:29 PM
Why was the crowd booing Serena ALL THROUGH THE FINAL MATCH???

Ok fine, boo Venus and Richard when they were walking in, afterall, she is the one who retired
BUT NO, they were cheering and clapping loudly when Serena missed a first serve, double fault, made an error or Kim hit a winner.

Serena wasn't villified as badly even when she played Mauresmo at the French Open.

It was ridiculous. What the hell did Serena do??

If Serena doesn't wan't to play there again that is good for her.

Also, her 2 wins aren't recognised there. Every other winner has their name up, but she doesn't.
Please. If I were her, I would tell the tournament organisers were to stick it.

egn
03-11-2009, 08:06 PM
Thanks. So rules are bent for them. I guess they didn't want to risk sisters' suspension affecting Miami ratings and attendance.

I wonder if WTA would do the same for some other player.

WTA and ATP look ridiculous with all those new rules they do not want to enforce on everybody. Why have those rules then?

Well know they made that loophole and posted it a long while back. It was even stated if they do promotional work for the event in the area they can get out of having a zero. Yet it seems pointless to me as what can you replace it with? Its one of the BIG 5 or whatever bull so in the end whatever you replace it with is not nearly as much.

THe loophole actually in a way works the players don't play the event but still have to be in the area and it stops them from running around and doing training to prepare for other invents. SO in a way it is a good thing, but still a stupid loophole none the less. But then the whole mandating what events you have to play on the tour is kind of silly. Players always having to play against the same top 30 players is annoying..what happened to allowing players to schedule their own tours.

egn
03-11-2009, 08:37 PM
forget this post

adlis
03-11-2009, 08:38 PM
You guys pretty much summed up my thoughts.

They got booed.

Richard got upset.

Richard did his usual antics.

Sisters paid for his actions and remarks.

Can't offend their father.

Richard Williams is what I try and clean out of my shower on a weekly basis....

I totaly agree. Racism does not exist ever in the history of the universe.








































































































































































/sarcasm

edmondsm
03-11-2009, 10:44 PM
Adlis, that was a seriously dumb post.

saram
03-11-2009, 11:07 PM
Was the copy editor walking with them to the stands when Richard alleges he heard the racist comments?

Maybe you should be the one read up again.

You obviously don't know Richard Williams and his behavior.

saram
03-11-2009, 11:08 PM
Adlis, that was a seriously dumb post.

That is about all he/she is good for.

saram
03-11-2009, 11:10 PM
I am still waiting for someone to come along and tell me how or why it is okay for Richard Williams to call Chris Evert "White Trash". No one has ever done that.

LPShanet
03-12-2009, 01:06 AM
Was the copy editor walking with them to the stands when Richard alleges he heard the racist comments?

Maybe you should be the one read up again.

It's not hard to find people who were within a few feet of him for almost every part of the match, including his entrance. I personally know six people who were within a few feet of him (four of whom were in the players' box), and none of them heard anything. Add to that the fact that most markets with the same demographics are far too worried about their image and being PC to ever utter anything racist in public. While claims of racism are reported in various situations around the world, when's the last time you heard members of a crowd of this type say things like that at an event of this type? It's just not credible, especially in light of the fact that the crowd had a much more obvious and reasonable motivation for being ****ed at the family. While no one can prove Richard was making it up, it doesn't take much to read between the lines and at least guess what is probable. He's a serial liar and has pretty poor credibility, so we can do the math. We all know the story of crying wolf...

LPShanet
03-12-2009, 01:10 AM
Look what the tournament director said though -



I take that as acknowledgement that he heard or saw something which shouldn't have happened.

Charlie's comment was in reference to the fact that the family was booed. He takes the tournament very personally, and always has, and felt that it wasn't in keeping with the gentility of the locals he knows so well to even boo a player, let alone people in the stands. Had there been any actual verifiable racism, Charlie would have addressed it specifically and at least done a press conference as well as taking further measures to address the issue. If you know anything of Charlie or his history, it's pretty clear that he would have done much more, if it had been a response to claims of racism.

LPShanet
03-12-2009, 01:18 AM
why is this always such a hot topic?

1. venus shouldn't have pulled out at the last minute (should have been at least 30 minutes before)

2. Dementieva should not have commented on the situation. that was probably was escalated the situation even more

3. the crowd regaurdless shouldn't not have acted that way even if the were mad. that just shows low class to be shouting racial comments in a mob mentality sorta way

3. Richard should have left his comments out of it. things would have cooled over much more easily and simple, even if he was trying to protect his girls.

things are done and cannot be taken back. simple as that.

The reason it's such a hot topic is because of a few other "shouldas".

1. The tickets for the event should have been refunded. They weren't. If you paid big bucks to travel down to Indian Wells and see the Williams sisters play each other, and instead got to see one crappy mixed doubles match, I think you'd be entitled to compensation.
2. The whole Williams family should have been more aware of the effect of their actions on others. As it happens, Venus is quoted as not even realizing that later round tickets cost more than first round, or that people lost/wasted their money because of the lateness of her withdrawal.
3. The family should have defended their actions sooner, but didn't until they realized they could get in trouble for match fixing.
4. The WTA should not have bent, ignored or changed the rules to allow the Williamses to get away with this nonsense. They ruin their own credibility and the value of their rules by doing so. With their similar inaction on the Shahar Peer mess, their credibility may be at a long-time low right now.

These other shouldas make the issue remain a hot topic.