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saram
03-22-2009, 08:39 PM
I was playing dubs today. My doubles partner that I play with and shared a state championship with in previous years--took a shot on an overhead on another friend of mine during a friendly match. The shot hit my other friend in the shorts--but did not hit the body. I shook my head in dis-approval, and a conversation ensued.

I shared that it is never right to hit a ball that hard in an overhead at a guy at the net when he is your friend and it is friendly play and not in a tournament. He disagreed stating it was 'tennis' and 'just tennis' and told me to get over it.

We played two more games and the set ended and we all switched partners. I thought about the scenario more and had to get it off my chest as we were still discussing it in the next set with new partners.

At 2-all in the last set, the discussion got heated. He asked why I was so ****ed--and I declared that one should not hit at a fellow friend in practice and friendly play and that any 4.5 with skills could hit an overhead away from their friend to win a point versus hitting them at point blank. He once again disagreed. I told him not to take my opinion personal, but my thought is that no friend hits another friend in practice play intentionally. Later in the set, during a tie-breaker with my side up 7-6, he had a forehand to hit at my partner and I at point blank and shanked it into the net and we won the last set.

My friend that shanked the ball was livid. ****ed. Threw his stick out of the court and into the grass citing our previous conversation and stated he would kill me at the net any and any time he had the chance because I got in his head about the whole ordeal. I may have lost a dubs partner and friend.

Was I wrong or right? Is it okay to hit a friend in friendly/practice play?

dataseviltwin
03-22-2009, 08:48 PM
Back in the day we were taught to hit it at the right hip (friend, foe, or even your sister...). Anytime a ball is in the air and is a sitter, if you're on the opposite side, at the net, and still facing the net, you're fair game. I've seen guys charge, then duck under the net with the racket up high (sorta smart...), but normally when the other guy has a ball over chest high and you're toe-to-toe, you're nucking futs to keep charging - turn away, live another day. Brian Brothers do it, as do all the other top teams. Thus... methinks you're fair game if you're not ducking/covering on an overhead, or moving the heck back so you have a prayer of hitting a reflex shot back. But standing in there and/or charging... that's a recipe for getting killed, even if he is your friend.

maverick66
03-22-2009, 08:57 PM
i used to train with some intense guys and we would kill each other with sitters. never got mad as it was expected that if you hit a weak shot at net your gonna eat it. we were all playing tennis at a futures level so we were good players so i dont know how it would go with a bunch of rec players.

jayserinos99
03-22-2009, 08:57 PM
I've been on both the receiving and giving end of those kind of overheads. Playing with friends, I've been hit in the right eye by a point blank overhead and I've dished out some overheads that hit feet or legs or go through the 5 hole. In my mind, I don't go for Mach 1 power but I also don't dink it over either; I go for placement (with a full swing) a whole lot more which includes handcuffing my opponents. I also don't intentionally try to tag someone with an overhead. With that said, it really is 'just tennis'; mistakes happen (like getting hit in the eye with a wild overhead) and if one is at the net they should be ready to dodge/duck/turn around/pray. How did your friend who got hit feel about it?

J011yroger
03-22-2009, 09:03 PM
I wouldn't do it to a stranger in a pickup game, and I wouldn't do it to a person that I didn't think could avoid it, but I have no problem drilling a friend, they expect it, and I expect the same in return.

If you or your partner cough up a lame duck, you get out of dodge, or you eat the fuzz sammich.

J

maverick66
03-22-2009, 09:04 PM
jolly you ever play butts up with your friends. thats when pegging gets funny.

saram
03-22-2009, 09:12 PM
jolly you ever play butts up with your friends. thats when pegging gets funny.

Now that is a fun game when everyone joins in. I'll agree with that!

jayserinos99
03-22-2009, 09:19 PM
With the way Jolly hits I wouldn't want to play butts up.

J011yroger
03-22-2009, 09:20 PM
jolly you ever play butts up with your friends. thats when pegging gets funny.

I don't think any of my friends would want to play that with me.

But we often hit droppers or short chips to bring in the other guy, then rail the ball at him if he leaves it up.

J

maverick66
03-22-2009, 09:24 PM
ive played with guys who got there serves clocked in 130's so jolly doesnt scare me. this thread just made me think of how much fun that used to be.

saram
03-22-2009, 09:28 PM
ive played with guys who got there serves clocked in 130's so jolly doesnt scare me. this thread just made me think of how much fun that used to be.

So if you could hit an overhead away from a friend and win a point or hit a friend and win a point--which would you chose? That is my question here.

maverick66
03-22-2009, 09:31 PM
So if you could hit an overhead away from a friend and win a point or hit a friend and win a point--which would you chose? That is my question here.

guy i trained with or travelled with is dead. im gonna nail him hard. guy i dont really know ill hit him in the legs.

ESP#1
03-22-2009, 10:40 PM
Lets hope you lost that friend cause he sounds like a real ****** bag

BorisBeckerFan
03-23-2009, 01:19 AM
I personally do not try and hurt any one but handcuffing someone at the net is a legit shot. An overhead pointblank though I don't think should be aimed at some one's head. It also depends on who the other person is. If they are female there is no way I'm aiming at them. If they are elderly 4.0 or less, have any physical disabilities etc. I'm not aiming at them simply because I don't want to be a jerk. The situation and who you are playing really has a lot do with the right answer here.

TsongaEatingAPineappleLol
03-23-2009, 04:09 AM
You should always aim for the nuts, it's freakin' hilarious. :twisted:

bet
03-23-2009, 04:17 AM
Saram, tennis-wise you have no leg to stand on here, it's fair game and on a sitter, nobody should get hit except in the back or butt, because you should concede the point and turn/run!

But what you're appealing to is a "friendship rules/sensibilities". There is no right or wrong objective standard there. It's up to you and your friends to draw those lines. So you and your buddy obviously don't see eye to eye on that. He is more intense in practice and winning, even in practice means a lot to him obviously. One of you has to adjust for the other, or you both have accept that you are going to play differently(you hitting away and him hitting at you).

I, like you, prefer not to go at anyone during practice (and all the high level players(open level 5.0+) do the same, perhaps because we could seriously injure each other and that's a good way to ruin a practice) but that's just a personal choice. I can see why he got a bit annoyed when you were 'preaching" that you never do that, that's just your standard/sensibility. As you can see, some don't think that way and don't take it personally if somebody does that in practice!

bluegrasser
03-23-2009, 04:51 AM
I was playing dubs today. My doubles partner that I play with and shared a state championship with in previous years--took a shot on an overhead on another friend of mine during a friendly match. The shot hit my other friend in the shorts--but did not hit the body. I shook my head in dis-approval, and a conversation ensued.

I shared that it is never right to hit a ball that hard in an overhead at a guy at the net when he is your friend and it is friendly play and not in a tournament. He disagreed stating it was 'tennis' and 'just tennis' and told me to get over it.

We played two more games and the set ended and we all switched partners. I thought about the scenario more and had to get it off my chest as we were still discussing it in the next set with new partners.

At 2-all in the last set, the discussion got heated. He asked why I was so ****ed--and I declared that one should not hit at a fellow friend in practice and friendly play and that any 4.5 with skills could hit an overhead away from their friend to win a point versus hitting them at point blank. He once again disagreed. I told him not to take my opinion personal, but my thought is that no friend hits another friend in practice play intentionally. Later in the set, during a tie-breaker with my side up 7-6, he had a forehand to hit at my partner and I at point blank and shanked it into the net and we won the last set.

My friend that shanked the ball was livid. ****ed. Threw his stick out of the court and into the grass citing our previous conversation and stated he would kill me at the net any and any time he had the chance because I got in his head about the whole ordeal. I may have lost a dubs partner and friend.

Was I wrong or right? Is it okay to hit a friend in friendly/practice play?

Hey that's nothing - in a doubles match last Sat a friend didn't like a line call I called out on a serve, and kept grumbling, so I told him to just play - he then flipped me off and told me to go get *F* 'd.

Topaz
03-23-2009, 05:01 AM
My friend that shanked the ball was livid. ****ed. Threw his stick out of the court and into the grass citing our previous conversation and stated he would kill me at the net any and any time he had the chance because I got in his head about the whole ordeal. I may have lost a dubs partner and friend.

Was I wrong or right? Is it okay to hit a friend in friendly/practice play?

This is the part of the story that bothers me...he shanked the ball, and blamed...your conversation??? And then he would kill you at the net because you got into his head?

Uhhh...hello? Isn't it 'just tennis'? Isn't that what he said to you earlier?

Seems like this guy is fine when he is pegging others ('just tennis'), but when he loses, just can't handle that *he* lost (shank into net) and tries to blame it on someone/something else.

I get he is your friend, but he doesn't sound like a very good sport in general, and I doubt it is just on the tennis court.

jmverdugo
03-23-2009, 05:32 AM
I think you just make a big deal of it. It is not so serious, I personally do not aim to people, but if happens happens, I do not get mad if I get hit, actually it may be better that you hit him with a soft shot, he probably will learn that when a ball is high you better run or turn your back, because if it is not a friend then it wont be a soft shot.

Puma
03-23-2009, 05:45 AM
Saram, tennis-wise you have no leg to stand on here, it's fair game and on a sitter, nobody should get hit except in the back or butt, because you should concede the point and turn/run!

But what you're appealing to is a "friendship rules/sensibilities". There is no right or wrong objective standard there. It's up to you and your friends to draw those lines. So you and your buddy obviously don't see eye to eye on that. He is more intense in practice and winning, even in practice means a lot to him obviously. One of you has to adjust for the other, or you both have accept that you are going to play differently(you hitting away and him hitting at you).

I, like you, prefer not to go at anyone during practice (and all the high level players(open level 5.0+) do the same, perhaps because we could seriously injure each other and that's a good way to ruin a practice) but that's just a personal choice. I can see why he got a bit annoyed when you were 'preaching" that you never do that, that's just your standard/sensibility. As you can see, some don't think that way and don't take it personally if somebody does that in practice!


I hate to admit it, but your right. I prefer not to hit at someone either. There is little need in that. Yeah, you might push someone off the net, break their nerve, yada, yada yada. But, in practice, with friends, especially with guys who can crank it, it aint cool.

blakesq
03-23-2009, 06:02 AM
you can say anything you want. however, in tennis, hitting at your opponent is a legal shot. if your opponent does not want to get hit at the net, he should stay away from the net. If I was playing against you, and you started complaining about being hit at, I would start aiming for you.


I was playing dubs today. My doubles partner that I play with and shared a state championship with in previous years--took a shot on an overhead on another friend of mine during a friendly match. The shot hit my other friend in the shorts--but did not hit the body. I shook my head in dis-approval, and a conversation ensued.

I shared that it is never right to hit a ball that hard in an overhead at a guy at the net when he is your friend and it is friendly play and not in a tournament. He disagreed stating it was 'tennis' and 'just tennis' and told me to get over it.

We played two more games and the set ended and we all switched partners. I thought about the scenario more and had to get it off my chest as we were still discussing it in the next set with new partners.

At 2-all in the last set, the discussion got heated. He asked why I was so ****ed--and I declared that one should not hit at a fellow friend in practice and friendly play and that any 4.5 with skills could hit an overhead away from their friend to win a point versus hitting them at point blank. He once again disagreed. I told him not to take my opinion personal, but my thought is that no friend hits another friend in practice play intentionally. Later in the set, during a tie-breaker with my side up 7-6, he had a forehand to hit at my partner and I at point blank and shanked it into the net and we won the last set.

My friend that shanked the ball was livid. ****ed. Threw his stick out of the court and into the grass citing our previous conversation and stated he would kill me at the net any and any time he had the chance because I got in his head about the whole ordeal. I may have lost a dubs partner and friend.

Was I wrong or right? Is it okay to hit a friend in friendly/practice play?

taz23
03-23-2009, 06:28 AM
I also think it depends on the group of friends you are with. Right now me and some of the people I play with are keeping track on how many times we can peg someone with the ball. The worst that happens is a bruise, but its just a fun side game we have going. At the same time i wouldn't play this game with anyone I thought might aim for my head cause that could be a serious injury. Plus since you mentioned that you guys were practicing it makes sense to practice how you would normally play.

atatu
03-23-2009, 07:01 AM
I try not to hit anyone if it is a absolute sitter..but if I'm stretched and I don't have any other shot I'm ok with hitting at someone if that is the best way to win the point. Also, I think you should always apologize if you hit someone.

simi
03-23-2009, 07:36 AM
I was playing dubs today...I may have lost a dubs partner and friend.

Was I wrong or right? Is it okay to hit a friend in friendly/practice play?

Not really a question of "right or wrong", or if it is "okay". However, I think you over-reacted and if I were you, I'd apologize and try to restore the friendship. That is what is more important, our relationships.

At the 4.5 level, the net man should either have enough skill to deflect a shot, or enough sense to turn his back and concede the point.

sureshs
03-23-2009, 08:32 AM
Just have to accept that some people are like that. Last week was partnered with a guy who usually plays well but was totally out of sync that day. He kept lobbing up weak short balls, and I was hit 4 times in 2 sets by the same net guy on the other side. I had already turned sideways in the matador stance each time and surrendered, yet he hit me on the foot each time. He laughs and says he must have a foot fetish and be attracted to my leg. OK dude.

SuperJimmy
03-23-2009, 08:53 AM
I personally do not try to hit someone in practice play. But have no problems with them aiming at me with the right shot.

Sure you can say a 4.5 "should" be able to hit it anywhere for the winner. But you still make them hit it right? (on the off chance they miss or you can return it back) Heck, I have seen pros miss overheads at point blank range and a full court to work with. And what happens if they have to adjust to where you are standing and end up missing just to avoid hitting you? Will you give them the point because they were trying to be nice and not hit you? I've seen plenty of situations in friendly play where someone tries to avoid hitting their opponent, and in turn either makes an error or a shot that is very returnable - and all of a sudden what is supposed to be an offensive shot simply becomes a neutral one.

It was mentioned before also, but as much as a 4.5 "should" be able to hit an overhead anywhere for a winner. A 4.5 (even a 3.0) "should" also be able to recognize when they are a sitting duck and either move off the court or retreat to the baseline.

bet
03-23-2009, 01:48 PM
I hate to admit it, but your right. I prefer not to hit at someone either. There is little need in that. Yeah, you might push someone off the net, break their nerve, yada, yada yada. But, in practice, with friends, especially with guys who can crank it, it aint cool.

Absolutely Puma! In fact, it can start to get in the way. I coached some very high level juniors and I didn't let them do that either! Though sometimes we'd do drills with headhunting involved...for fun!

But it creates friction and it can also make people more fearful to do things in practice that they should. Most of the high level coaches i know and the journeymen pros I have hit with...none of them did that. That is not to say all high level players don't do it(I made a typo in my OP here) but, I think it's quite rare. A high sitter volley, they might! But an overhead or sitter forehand, no! It's a gentleman's/sportsman agreement, because theses guys all are well aware that any one of them can hit the ball potentially injuriously hard and there is nothing for them to prove in practice.

Again, as I said in my OP, this is neither "right" nor "wrong" it is just the sensibility of the group. Friends playing together must draw their own line and reach their own consensus but their is no standard and no way to argue what is the "right" way.

And of course, in real matches, protect yourself, it's totally legal, part of the game, and going at the guy is always your option and sometimes the smart shot. Though even in real matches, it's rare to see high level players go at each other with overheads and sitter groundies.

JavierLW
03-23-2009, 04:59 PM
I was playing dubs today. My doubles partner that I play with and shared a state championship with in previous years--took a shot on an overhead on another friend of mine during a friendly match. The shot hit my other friend in the shorts--but did not hit the body. I shook my head in dis-approval, and a conversation ensued.

I shared that it is never right to hit a ball that hard in an overhead at a guy at the net when he is your friend and it is friendly play and not in a tournament. He disagreed stating it was 'tennis' and 'just tennis' and told me to get over it.

We played two more games and the set ended and we all switched partners. I thought about the scenario more and had to get it off my chest as we were still discussing it in the next set with new partners.

At 2-all in the last set, the discussion got heated. He asked why I was so ****ed--and I declared that one should not hit at a fellow friend in practice and friendly play and that any 4.5 with skills could hit an overhead away from their friend to win a point versus hitting them at point blank. He once again disagreed. I told him not to take my opinion personal, but my thought is that no friend hits another friend in practice play intentionally. Later in the set, during a tie-breaker with my side up 7-6, he had a forehand to hit at my partner and I at point blank and shanked it into the net and we won the last set.

My friend that shanked the ball was livid. ****ed. Threw his stick out of the court and into the grass citing our previous conversation and stated he would kill me at the net any and any time he had the chance because I got in his head about the whole ordeal. I may have lost a dubs partner and friend.

Was I wrong or right? Is it okay to hit a friend in friendly/practice play?

I dont know, my friends are not a bunch of wuss's who get all uptight about whether or not they get hit with a tennis ball.

Playing for "fun" for us means playing to win, if it's a friend we want to win all that much more and we're not going to whine about it if someone makes a perfectly legal move, that's just tennis.

I think you're wrong to be a nit about this, and your friend has a right to get ****ed, especially if you kept bringing it up and going on and on and on and on about one particular incident that happened 40 minutes ago.

And just because you feel that way about it means nothing, apparently your friend does not and you can respect that just as much as you expect him to respect your opinion. The person who almost got hit didnt seem to say anything as well so you should of just let it go.

Tennisman912
03-23-2009, 05:04 PM
I think your friend was mad because he tried to play nice and flubbed a shot he would not hesitate to crack at someone. I am certainly sure we have all been in a situation where we took it easy on another team, flubbed it and were ****ed at ourselves for being “too nice” instead of taking care of business so to speak. He just carried his anger at himself and blew a gasket at you so to speak. While I don’t condone it, I understand it.

Again, whether anything goes is a personal choice and I wouldn’t go trying to kill someone at the net even if that group encouraged it with a few exceptions (as some groups like to see how many welts they can put on their friends as we all know) even if it would be expected. But you take a certain risk by stepping on the court in the first place and I know plenty of people who will just kill any sitter with little regard to where it is going or who may be in jeopardy.

But I completely agree that if you don’t turn your back immediately, instead hold your ground or rush in to try to mess up the sitter, you are fair game and have no right to complain if you catch a hard shot. I, a lot of times hold my ground trying to punch it back and if I am too slow reacting I certainly wouldn’t be mad at the person hitting at me.

Just part of the game. Most people play in practice how they play for real with rare exception.

Good tennis

TM

10sfreak
03-23-2009, 07:10 PM
I'm with Saram on this one. I know it's a perfectly legal shot to take, but that doesn't mean you should. Remember, just because you have the right to do something, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. In my opinion, if you can win the point by hitting away from your opponent, friend or not, then that's what you should do. I used to get so concerned about hitting someone on on overhead shot that I'd screw it up all the time. Now, when I get an overhead at the net, I simply concentrate on the ball, and smack it! I don't aim it at anyone, but if they're in the way...I was SO concentrating on the ball, I didn't see them. Sorry.

maverick66
03-23-2009, 07:13 PM
ive been hit hard and hit people hard to me its part of the game. either get your racket up or get out of the way. i agree his friend was more ****ed that he screwed up after saram said something but he needs to get over it.

saram
03-23-2009, 07:21 PM
ive been hit hard and hit people hard to me its part of the game. either get your racket up or get out of the way. i agree his friend was more ****ed that he screwed up after saram said something but he needs to get over it.

I did forget to mention in the thread when I started it that the guy that hit the overhead at my other friend is a very very successful 4.5 player with a thunderous serve. The bloke he took a shot at is not quite a solid 3.5. He's also pretty non-mobile and about 50 lbs overweight. I was upset that a player that much stronger than the weaker player took such a cut and deliberate aim.

I may be wrong here--but I just don't think that kind of play should happen among friends unless a title is on the line. And, we were up 5-0 when he took the cut.

maverick66
03-23-2009, 07:29 PM
we were up 5-0 when he took the cut.

i would say that would be your reason he was ****ed afterwards and the why he went at someone.

Bama
03-23-2009, 07:30 PM
I was playing doubles in a tournament on court 1 with a big crowd watching and it was a tight match with some great shotmaking at that point. I hit an overhead at the feet of the net man who smartly turned around but blindly stuck his racket out and luckily backwards half volleyed it for a winner. The crowd went crazy and the momentum swung their way and they started rolling. I should have pegged his *** in the back.

Winning a big point that should have been lost can change a match, so I don't see why I should ever give mercy to any player of the same skill or better. I'm extremely aggressive on the net and it gives me a big advantage and gets a lot of easy points sometimes. I don't expect someone to avoid coming at me if that's their strategy to get me of the net. If you're playing up on the net you're fair game....end of story. Who says tennis isn't a contact sport!

saram
03-23-2009, 07:35 PM
i would say that would be your reason he was ****ed afterwards and the why he went at someone.

He was on my team when he took the cut and we were up 5-0. We play sets and switch partners to keep it fresh. He was my partner when he took that cut at the weaker player on the weaker team. It was at the end of the following set when he failed to take the cut about 40 minutes later or so.

maverick66
03-23-2009, 07:37 PM
then i dont see his problem. why he got mad at you is beyond me. sounds like a guy i would avoid if he was willing to start a fight over something so stupid.

saram
03-23-2009, 07:40 PM
then i dont see his problem. why he got mad at you is beyond me. sounds like a guy i would avoid if he was willing to start a fight over something so stupid.

He and I always beat these two 6-0. I saw no reason to add injury to insult once again.

J011yroger
03-24-2009, 02:47 AM
I did forget to mention in the thread when I started it that the guy that hit the overhead at my other friend is a very very successful 4.5 player with a thunderous serve. The bloke he took a shot at is not quite a solid 3.5. He's also pretty non-mobile and about 50 lbs overweight. I was upset that a player that much stronger than the weaker player took such a cut and deliberate aim.

I may be wrong here--but I just don't think that kind of play should happen among friends unless a title is on the line. And, we were up 5-0 when he took the cut.

Oh... you left that part out.

Not cool in that case.

I play dubs pretty often with people of a lower level, and if the net man is a good soldier and just minds his position and plays whatever balls come to him, then I just return crosscourt, and we play, and have fun.

But if he starts dancing around and chirping his sneakers, and fake poaching, then I drill him.

J

ferb55
03-24-2009, 04:04 AM
Personally, I think if your opponent hangs in there, racquet ready to try and get it...then fire away. By his stance he is saying.."Come on, lets see what you have". So I would nail him.

If you don't want to get hit, turn away and concede the point.

Now, if someone takes a defenseless posture or takes a step away because it is just friendly tennis...and someone still goes at you...then its on and I understand getting mad.

Gemini
03-24-2009, 04:53 AM
I don't see anything wrong with what your dubs partner did UNLESS the shot he hit was intended to "kill" your other friend. Also, I don't see why it's not okay to hit in someone's immediate direction forcefully regardless of whether you're friends or not.

I, generally, don't hit at anyone on overheads but if it's my only shot I WILL pop it with some pace in their direction but not with enough force to cause serious injury. In this case, I think the OP overreacted UNLESS, like I said earlier, his doubles partner was essentially headhunting on the opposing player.

equinox
03-24-2009, 06:24 AM
you're men on court, not mice. act like it. fair game.

rasajadad
03-24-2009, 08:00 AM
So if you could hit an overhead away from a friend and win a point or hit a friend and win a point--which would you chose? That is my question here.

I'd almost never try to hit anyone on purpose friend or not. Unless of course they hit my partner when it could have been avoided. Or if they are hookers or a-holes. An example being I played in a parent-child with my son who was 12 at the time and the other parent hit my son (twice). I did not hit his kid, however, I did "Lendl" (drop shot followed by nailing him with the pop reply)the guy twice. How else are people going to learn etiquette? ;-)

tennisdad65
03-24-2009, 08:18 AM
When I get an overhead, I just concentrate on the ball. I never look at where my opponents are and I do not care where on the court my opponents are. My attitude is that, they are never gonna get my overhead back even if it is hit to them.

I have hit many opponents, friends, ladies. I think it is part of the game. If you put up a crappy lob, please get the heck out of the way. I turn my back and move out of the way if I am around the service line or inside. It is my fault if I get hit.

Topaz
03-24-2009, 08:29 AM
Part of the problem is that it is usually the person at the baseline who puts up the sitter...putting their partner in harm's way. The net person is a sitting duck if they don't get warned by their partner (and sometimes even still...they don't have time to get out of the way).

Geezer Guy
03-24-2009, 10:26 AM
My buddies and I hit hard baseline shots at the net guy all the time, and will gladly try to tag an opponent with a well placed volley.
However, we rarely try to hit anyone with an overhead at close range. That's just not sporting.

blakesq
03-24-2009, 11:15 AM
you say not sporting, but what if you get an overhead, you have time to set up for it, and you see the net guy just waiting at the net in order to try to hit back your overhead. Are you saying you have to avoid the net guy with your overhead? I think that that is crazy. If the net guy is trying to make a play on your overhead, then you have every sporting right to go at him with the overhead.

My buddies and I hit hard baseline shots at the net guy all the time, and will gladly try to tag an opponent with a well placed volley.
However, we rarely try to hit anyone with an overhead at close range. That's just not sporting.

shissncg
03-24-2009, 12:06 PM
If the net man doesn't turn away or back up then feel free to hit them.

burosky
03-24-2009, 01:34 PM
Part of the problem is that it is usually the person at the baseline who puts up the sitter...putting their partner in harm's way. The net person is a sitting duck if they don't get warned by their partner (and sometimes even still...they don't have time to get out of the way).

I agree to a certain extent. However, the person at the net doesn't always have to be warned.

If I was at the net, at point blank range and I see my opponent prepare for an overhead, unless I think I have a shot at hitting the ball back I concede the point by turning my back before they hit the ball. At that point I fully expect my opponent to at least make an effort to hit away from me. If I choose to play defense and attempt to return the shot, I don't mind getting hit. For me that is fair play.

Geezer Guy
03-24-2009, 01:55 PM
you say not sporting, but what if you get an overhead, you have time to set up for it, and you see the net guy just waiting at the net in order to try to hit back your overhead. Are you saying you have to avoid the net guy with your overhead? I think that that is crazy. If the net guy is trying to make a play on your overhead, then you have every sporting right to go at him with the overhead.

I'm saying I wouldn't intentionally try to peg someone with an overhead from point blank range. To be honest, 9 times out of 10 when I hit an overhead I'm looking up at the ball and just mentally aiming for an area of the court. I don't know for sure where my opponent is, and I don't make an intentional effort to hit either at or away from him.

If somehow, as you suggest, I knew the net man was going to try to return my overhead - I'd probably try harder to hit away from him. I don't really see the reasoning in hitting the ball TO the player that wants it.

CyberInferno
03-24-2009, 04:12 PM
I mostly hit at the target player (assuming there is one) regardless of it being a friendly match or a competitive one. But I always aim for shins or shoes. For one thing, getting hit in the legs doesn't hurt that badly. For another, it's hard to return a shot like that. I played a competitive mixed doubles match this past Sunday and my partner popped a ball up. I started backpedaling and the guy smacked an overhead right at my midsection. I volleyed it back right by him. I didn't take any offense from the shot, obviously, but I did relish in the stupid look on his face as the ball went by him.

Fedace
03-24-2009, 04:17 PM
Saram, You were right. there is no reason to hit that hard right at the guy, in a friendly match. If it is a tournament where college scholarship is on the line, let it rip.
but you have to remember that different people have different ideas on what is Right and What is Wrong. Like my friend, who started to throw bunch of F-bombs cause we had stencil ink on the Strings.
sometime you can try your darndest to talk to someone but they won't understand til it actually happens to them. but you should never deliverately try to hit him to teach him a lesson. That would be stuping to his level and that doesn't solve anything.
One day, someone will aim for his Family Jewel and score a bullseye and he will learn a lesson.

CyberInferno
03-24-2009, 04:49 PM
Like my friend, who started to throw bunch of F-bombs cause we had stencil ink on the Strings.
Wow, that's insane. Would you mind sharing the whole story? I'm curious how someone could complain about a stencil...

saram
03-24-2009, 06:58 PM
Update:

I spoke tonight with the friend that was hit. He was not mad about the shot at him--but was highly upset about the comments during the discussion between the friend that hit at him and myself. When my friend openly disregarded friendship in the conversation and specifically took aim at him--that is when he took offense and thanked me for sticking up for the lesser/weaker player on the court.

The friend that was hit at said if it were state/sanctioned match, etc...go ahead and nail him and he expects it always (as do I). But he shared he was upset that a friend would nail him at point blank range on a Sunday afternoon.

We talked and agreed that the overhead the talented 4.5 with huge serve hit at him was in the range of 115+ from 25-30 feet with the intent to harm.

I realize there is no right or wrong here, and I appreciate your thoughts and opinions. Given this was a Sunday afternoon and friendly match with nothing on the line and revolving partners with no 'declared winner' in any of it--I still find the actions of intentionally harming another friend offensive.

blakesq
03-25-2009, 07:10 AM
Saram, you originally said: "The shot hit my other friend in the shorts--but did not hit the body. I shook my head in dis-approval, and a conversation ensued." So the shot hit your friend's clothing, but not your friend's body, (it brushed his shorts) and this is what got you all worked up? Give me a break.




Update:

I spoke tonight with the friend that was hit. He was not mad about the shot at him--but was highly upset about the comments during the discussion between the friend that hit at him and myself. When my friend openly disregarded friendship in the conversation and specifically took aim at him--that is when he took offense and thanked me for sticking up for the lesser/weaker player on the court.

The friend that was hit at said if it were state/sanctioned match, etc...go ahead and nail him and he expects it always (as do I). But he shared he was upset that a friend would nail him at point blank range on a Sunday afternoon.

We talked and agreed that the overhead the talented 4.5 with huge serve hit at him was in the range of 115+ from 25-30 feet with the intent to harm.

I realize there is no right or wrong here, and I appreciate your thoughts and opinions. Given this was a Sunday afternoon and friendly match with nothing on the line and revolving partners with no 'declared winner' in any of it--I still find the actions of intentionally harming another friend offensive.

JavierLW
03-25-2009, 08:09 AM
Saram, you originally said: "The shot hit my other friend in the shorts--but did not hit the body. I shook my head in dis-approval, and a conversation ensued." So the shot hit your friend's clothing, but not your friend's body, (it brushed his shorts) and this is what got you all worked up? Give me a break.

That part got me as well.

It seem's that it's assumed the guy was trying to "intentionally harm someone", which is silly, is he that bad of a shot?

I dont know why people feel the need to make "extra" rules that dont exist just for the purposes of "fun".

If someone wouldnt take that shot themselves, that's fine. That's their decision.

But to go on and on and on and on about it to pester someone else or admonish them because they dont follow your own moral code is nitty and insulting. Im not surprised that he's not happy about it.

nhat8121
03-25-2009, 08:19 AM
it could have hit him and hurt him...that's the point, geez.

JavierLW
03-25-2009, 08:31 AM
it could have hit him and hurt him...that's the point, geez.

But it didnt........?

blakesq
03-25-2009, 08:55 AM
Uh, and my point is that you can get "hurt" anytime you step on a tennis court. If you want to stay "unhurt", maybe you shouldn't be playing tennis, stick with playstation or wii.

it could have hit him and hurt him...that's the point, geez.

blakesq
03-25-2009, 08:57 AM
Javier, i have heard rumors of a "Red Dwarf" movie for years. Do you have any info on such a thing?

But it didnt........?

burosky
03-25-2009, 09:21 AM
I think this is all about the intent to harm. If this is truly the case, the shot was not taken with the intent to win the point. I can't think of any valid reason for intending to harm another person during play. The opponent could be the biggest jerk but it still doesn't warrant intentionally hitting a shot to cause harm.

JavierLW
03-25-2009, 11:06 AM
Javier, i have heard rumors of a "Red Dwarf" movie for years. Do you have any info on such a thing?

Ah, but it's not a picture of Arnold Rimmer, it's a picture of Mr. Brittas (Gordan Brittas).

(that's probably even more way out there for you, yes? :-) )

(but no, I did watch Red Dwarf the TV show, but I havent heard about the movie although it's rumored on Wikipedia)

JavierLW
03-25-2009, 11:10 AM
I think this is all about the intent to harm. If this is truly the case, the shot was not taken with the intent to win the point. I can't think of any valid reason for intending to harm another person during play. The opponent could be the biggest jerk but it still doesn't warrant intentionally hitting a shot to cause harm.

You are absolutely right about that.

But if it was a "friend" of yours, and he happened to just barely miss someone with a hardly struck ball would you immediately accuse him of trying to harm the person and sit and nitpick him for an entire 90 minutes about it???

I would not (and I doubt you would either). Im sure any reasonable person is going to say they didnt mean to hit anyone, so there is no reason to make a big deal about it. If they are "really" a friend how could anyone accuse them of meaning to do something that they didnt mean to do....

(just because this guy is over-dramatizing it on the message board that there was "intent to harm", doesnt mean that's what's going on here and if it did the guy must not be that good because he missed.....)

blakesq
03-25-2009, 11:27 AM
Well, the original poster did not "know" what the other person's "intent" was, unless he can read minds. I often hit directly at the net guy. I do not intend to harm the net guy, but i do intend to make him miss a shot by jamming him up, and/or make him think about moving back from the net, and/or make him rethink making a poach. Same with hitting an overhead, if a guy stays at net while I am setting up for an overhead, and makes no attempt to yield, then I will hit directly at him. I don't intend to hurt him, but I do intend to win the point.


I think this is all about the intent to harm. If this is truly the case, the shot was not taken with the intent to win the point. I can't think of any valid reason for intending to harm another person during play. The opponent could be the biggest jerk but it still doesn't warrant intentionally hitting a shot to cause harm.

bet
03-25-2009, 02:09 PM
Update:

I spoke tonight with the friend that was hit. He was not mad about the shot at him--but was highly upset about the comments during the discussion between the friend that hit at him and myself. When my friend openly disregarded friendship in the conversation and specifically took aim at him--that is when he took offense and thanked me for sticking up for the lesser/weaker player on the court.
.

This is getting worse and worse. So actually, your friend who ALMOST got his wouldn't even have been upset had you not started an argument about it. But it's good he now realizes your other friend thinks that going at the guy is OK. As I stated over and over there is no rule or "right/wrong" here, there is only the unwritten rules you and your friends are writing. His idea of the rule is different than yours and so you should decide whether you want to play practice matches with him or not. Simple as that. Don't try to lecture him about how he is "wrong". He is not. You have no moral leg to stand on. His opinion is just different.

Finally, your poor, weak, friend, might want to consider that he is lucky a player so much better is willing to play with him. Now that he is aware of the way that guy plays, he can decide whether it is worth it to him or if he is too scared to keep playing with him. Again, a ball in the back is not that bad, he should at least know when to turn away and not get hit.

And now that you've revealed it was 30 feet away, the situation becomes more clear. Since 30 feet is close but not that close at the 3.5 level, your friend was likely trying to play the ball, he was not used a person who can hit it that hard. Now he knows how fast the ball can go and that he may get hit, (you shouldn't encourage him to take it personally as you do, obviously the overhead hitter does not). Now he can choose to concede the point or simply not play.

ttbrowne
03-25-2009, 06:58 PM
Just make sure your friend knows that if he ever, ever takes a shot at you like that, he'll eat his racket....after you shove it up his a**.
If he laffs at you, time to man-dance.

blakesq
03-26-2009, 06:24 AM
I hope your joking. If you are not, then you are the type of "player" that shouldn't be playing tennis. Getting "hit at" is part of the game. If you don't like it, maybe you should play canasta.


Just make sure your friend knows that if he ever, ever takes a shot at you like that, he'll eat his racket....after you shove it up his a**.
If he laffs at you, time to man-dance.

hellonewbie
03-27-2009, 01:58 AM
So if you could hit an overhead away from a friend and win a point or hit a friend and win a point--which would you chose? That is my question here.

Are you all 4.5's? The net person can dodge right? When I see a smash coming my way, I get the hell out of the way. When I smash, I hope the other side does the same because I don't want to change my shot unless it's a helpless grandma on the other side who can't move quickly.

Anyway, you may be over-protective of your friend, just tell him to get out of the way if he is not very skilled. I think that's better than telling someone who has an easy smash/put away to change their shot to something more difficult.

sciwriter
03-27-2009, 07:29 AM
This thread is uncannily relevant to me. Yesterday I hit an overhead in doubles, put it at my opponent's feet, and he stood his ground at mid-court and flicked it back. I hit another one at his feet and again he stood his ground but missed it. He was very angry and eventually said he would get me back. My partner said I was wrong, that I should have hit into the open court. But my brain, unfortunately, doesn't work that way -- I instinctively hit overheads
at my opponent's feet. I guess I'll have to change.

Later in the same match my angry opponent intentionally hit a hard volley at my face when we were both close at the net and it knocked me down as I tried to get out of the way. Somehow I managed to get the ball returned though and won the point.

My wife says I'd better change my tactics or lose friends.

spot
03-27-2009, 07:35 AM
I don't understand how you are supposed to look at your opponents on an overhead. Maybe its just me but I prefer to look up at the ball that I am swinging at. And I REALLY don't understand how people complain about the ball being hit too hard when they are actively trying to get the ball back over. The ONLY situation I could see a reaction like the OP being warranted would be if the net person turned their back and turned off the court and the guy hitting the overhead turned and tried to still hit them.

hellonewbie
03-27-2009, 08:36 AM
This thread is uncannily relevant to me. Yesterday I hit an overhead in doubles, put it at my opponent's feet, and he stood his ground at mid-court and flicked it back. I hit another one at his feet and again he stood his ground but missed it. He was very angry and eventually said he would get me back. My partner said I was wrong, that I should have hit into the open court. But my brain, unfortunately, doesn't work that way -- I instinctively hit overheads
at my opponent's feet. I guess I'll have to change.

Later in the same match my angry opponent intentionally hit a hard volley at my face when we were both close at the net and it knocked me down as I tried to get out of the way. Somehow I managed to get the ball returned though and won the point.

My wife says I'd better change my tactics or lose friends.

Hitting at opponent is good tactics. If your opponents don't want to get hit, they should give up their positions. The guy who stood his ground and hits it back obviously still intend to stay in the point. Unless he's hard of movement or has heart conditions, he's fair game.

blakesq
03-27-2009, 08:44 AM
Maybe your wife wants you to wear a pretty little dress when you play tennis? If the people you play with think its 'wrong' to hit a ball at someone's feet, then maybe you should start playing men's tennis with men, and not with little girls in cute little dresses.

This thread is uncannily relevant to me. Yesterday I hit an overhead in doubles, put it at my opponent's feet, and he stood his ground at mid-court and flicked it back. I hit another one at his feet and again he stood his ground but missed it. He was very angry and eventually said he would get me back. My partner said I was wrong, that I should have hit into the open court. But my brain, unfortunately, doesn't work that way -- I instinctively hit overheads
at my opponent's feet. I guess I'll have to change.

Later in the same match my angry opponent intentionally hit a hard volley at my face when we were both close at the net and it knocked me down as I tried to get out of the way. Somehow I managed to get the ball returned though and won the point.

My wife says I'd better change my tactics or lose friends.

JavierLW
03-27-2009, 09:11 AM
This thread is uncannily relevant to me. Yesterday I hit an overhead in doubles, put it at my opponent's feet, and he stood his ground at mid-court and flicked it back. I hit another one at his feet and again he stood his ground but missed it. He was very angry and eventually said he would get me back. My partner said I was wrong, that I should have hit into the open court. But my brain, unfortunately, doesn't work that way -- I instinctively hit overheads
at my opponent's feet. I guess I'll have to change.

Later in the same match my angry opponent intentionally hit a hard volley at my face when we were both close at the net and it knocked me down as I tried to get out of the way. Somehow I managed to get the ball returned though and won the point.

My wife says I'd better change my tactics or lose friends.

Dont listen to your wife. :-)

Your partner may of been right, but it's for a different reason (and I deal with the same thing).

When Im playing some people I go right at their feet (it's their feet, not their head, there should be no whining when it's going at your feet) and I win a lot of points.

But if Im up against better faster players they always seem to get those balls back so Im pretty much not effective.

So he's right, going into the open court (in a spot where it still wont come back like behind them or in the "hole") is far superior. Going right at someone is usually just a lazy way of trying to put the ball away and it doesnt always work. (depending on how good your shots are compared to their reflexes)

As far as losing friends though, if you lose a friend because you've hit them in the foot then that's a good thing, you dont need a bunch of wusses and crybabys as friends.

JavierLW
03-27-2009, 09:21 AM
Maybe your wife wants you to wear a pretty little dress when you play tennis? If the people you play with think its 'wrong' to hit a ball at someone's feet, then maybe you should start playing men's tennis with men, and not with little girls in cute little dresses.

Ya... I didnt want to go there. Face it, some of the men playing casual amatuer tennis are far more cowardly and are more of a bunch of crybabys then most of the women, I think it's like the new trend these days.

I only know one guy that I'm wary of playing with that might hit us. He had a short stint on the pro tour or at least challengers and beat Andy Roddick when Roddick was 12 years old. Then he broke his back so now he is just starting to play again, but mostly plays with some people I know that are 3.5 players.

Ive heard that he just hits it hard and he was bragging about how on the pro tour and challengers he would drill people with the ball to intimate them. He hit my friend point blank in the face from the baseline and broke his glasses one day.

But for me, it's just a matter of whether I want to play with that guy or not. Maybe I dont want to deal with that, but if I do find myself on the same court with the guy, I still think anything is fair game.

burosky
03-27-2009, 10:29 AM
I agree. During play, everything is fair game. The only exception I can think of is when there is clear and deliberate intent to harm or injure. I don't think there is any room for that in tennis or anywhere for that matter.

sciwriter
03-27-2009, 10:33 AM
Well, I'd better put some of this in perspective. I play on clay courts with men ranging in age from 42 to 72. The prevailing ethic there is to avoid hitting overheads at the older guys, and I do follow that as much as possible, though many of them are still amazingly good doubles players and great fun to play with. They have all kinds of spins and shots, and I like them a lot. I'm 53 and some of them in their late 60s and early 70s are better than I am.

Anyway, yesterday I hit overheads in the direction of a guy my age, an ox, very strong, tough, early 50s. A good, smart player.

But because of the prevailing attitude there, I was seen as being in the wrong. The unspoken rule applies to everyone, it seems.

My partner that day, who is 42, scolded me.

That's why my wife said to cool it. And I will have to -- even against guys who shouldn't get upset.

JavierLW
03-27-2009, 10:53 AM
Well, I'd better put some of this in perspective. I play on clay courts with men ranging in age from 42 to 72. The prevailing ethic there is to avoid hitting overheads at the older guys, and I do follow that as much as possible, though many of them are still amazingly good doubles players and great fun to play with. They have all kinds of spins and shots, and I like them a lot. I'm 53 and some of them in their late 60s and early 70s are better than I am.

Anyway, yesterday I hit overheads in the direction of a guy my age, an ox, very strong, tough, early 50s. A good, smart player.

But because of the prevailing attitude there, I was seen as being in the wrong. The unspoken rule applies to everyone, it seems.

My partner that day, who is 42, scolded me.

That's why my wife said to cool it. And I will have to -- even against guys who shouldn't get upset.

Wow it must suck to be you. (to be surrounded by a bunch of mentally weak people who worry about such things)

You guys should wear hockey equipment out there then you wont have to worry quite as much.

As far as age, I play with a lot of people in their 50's, 60's, and even 70's and 80's at times.

The older guys at my level (3.5 and sometimes 4.0) are usually harder to deal with then the younger players.

Ive seen people drill the ball at them at them at point blank range only to watch them calmly block it back because they have quick hands sometimes and they have a lot more experience tracking balls from up there, then 20 something's who mostly want to play singles and are just getting started with tennis.

Or if they cant they know enough to get out of the way if their partner leaves them out there to get nailed. (if you're looking forward at the right player you can tell when they have an easy shot and you're in trouble, their eyes light up and they start tracking the ball and looking upward)

complwyr
03-27-2009, 01:51 PM
My friend was hit in the face by a fast moving ball recently while playing friendly doubles. He was hit in the eye. He has had 4 surgeries and now has a permanent blind spot. He cannot really play anymore because of the injury. He was a 4.5 player.

It may be "just tennis" but it may also have unintended consequences. So aim for the open space and that way there is no danger of hurting anyone.

amarone
03-27-2009, 03:46 PM
There's a lot of people displaying their testosterone in this thread. Yes, hitting at an opponent is often a perfectly valid tactic. However, there are times when it is totally unnecessary as there is an easy put away to the open court. This applies even at the pro level. The top doubles players are fully aware of the validity of hitting at an opponent, but even they get ****ed when an overhead is hit at them when they deem it unnecessary.

mauricem
03-27-2009, 06:20 PM
I also enjoy the challenge of taking on the net player and equally relish fending off body shots when at the net but people can and do get hurt.

Two incidents in a couple of weeks from a small club I used to play at. Guy in 50s (not me) drills an overhead back and inadvertently collects guy in 60s in the chest. All Ok except older dude has a pacemaker which starts making wierd noises and develops an erratic pattern!

2nd incident when I ripped a return of a fast serve straight at the net man who was a good agressive player. Unlike most of my shots I actually middled this one and it went straight past his defence into the ribs, no big deal I thought except the guy has some osteo arthritic condtion and it busted a couple of ribs and he was out of action for of months.

Im not sure how true this one is but another playing partner told of how he accidentally hit an opponent in the groin and the guy ended up losing a testicle and never played again:cry:

So whilst I enjoy the "argy bargey" part of tennis as much as the next guy I dont think any of us would want the legacy of knowing we had permanently injured an opponent

sciwriter
03-27-2009, 06:49 PM
I would feel terrible if I hurt anyone on the court.

JavierLW
03-28-2009, 07:43 AM
There's a lot of people displaying their testosterone in this thread. Yes, hitting at an opponent is often a perfectly valid tactic. However, there are times when it is totally unnecessary as there is an easy put away to the open court. This applies even at the pro level. The top doubles players are fully aware of the validity of hitting at an opponent, but even they get ****ed when an overhead is hit at them when they deem it unnecessary.

Right, I agree with that point.

But in the OP's situation we're talking about a ball that just missed someone's shorts, and another player admonishing him for even hitting in that general direction.

As far as someone's eye getting put out, to aim at someone's head is generally stupid as well as not necessary. (if it misses it's usually going out anyway)

But to cry because someone went at your feet or just in your general area is whiney and nitpicky, Im sorry.....

I hope none of those people play baseball. A hardball travelling well over 90mph that veers off course can do far more damage then a tennis ball can.

(but I doubt they play hardball anyway, maybe slow pitch underhand softball or teeball or something like that....)

Obviously anyone should feel bad if they hit someone (since they shouldnt be intending to hit them), but not enough that they should get scolded for taking a shot in that direction.

strike
03-31-2009, 11:36 AM
Two points:

1. If your standing at the net when your opponent is about to hit an overhead, if your not turning away/ducking/etc., you should have your head examined.

2. If your hitting an overhead and your opponent is not turning away/ducking/etc., you still shouldn't be trying to hit them. Tennis isn't a contact sport, win the point and move on. Hitting them only serves to diminish yourself, shows bad sportsmanship, and angers and motivates your opponent. In other words, it is a bad tactic.

IMO, the OP was correct.

blakesq
03-31-2009, 12:32 PM
I agree with your point 1. Your point 2 is wrong. Hitting your opponent serves many purposes, one is to get him to back away from the net on the next shot, another is to get them to turn around during an overhead, another is to get them nervous/tight, another reason may be for revenge, if he hit you first, another may be that when your opponent becomes angry, he may simply start playing worse.



Two points:

1. If your standing at the net when your opponent is about to hit an overhead, if your not turning away/ducking/etc., you should have your head examined.

2. If your hitting an overhead and your opponent is not turning away/ducking/etc., you still shouldn't be trying to hit them. Tennis isn't a contact sport, win the point and move on. Hitting them only serves to diminish yourself, shows bad sportsmanship, and angers and motivates your opponent. In other words, it is a bad tactic.

IMO, the OP was correct.

sk8ing
03-31-2009, 12:48 PM
ive been pegged in the nutes by a a coach so hard before i couldn't walk lol and im 14 haha he totaly broke ma balls

but seriously i like to make it go right under the crotch and between the legs its hilarious if you dont make contact-its even funnier when you do. until they start crying :shock:

sk8ing
03-31-2009, 12:56 PM
it also matters once i tryed to avoid someone and they did the 'run up to thenet and duck' move and i didn't wanna kill them so i avoided them and missed.
next time i got an overhead he tried it again, and im pretty sure hes still got "wilson 3" on his chest

strike
03-31-2009, 03:20 PM
I agree with your point 1. Your point 2 is wrong. Hitting your opponent serves many purposes, one is to get him to back away from the net on the next shot, another is to get them to turn around during an overhead, another is to get them nervous/tight, another reason may be for revenge, if he hit you first, another may be that when your opponent becomes angry, he may simply start playing worse.

it may be wrong in your opinion...but it's not wrong

you also stand the risk of angering you opponent, and he may start playing much better and change the whole tenor of the match...if that happens, than it was a bad tactic

and i don't see the advantage of getting your opponent to turn around during your overhead as any real advantage...if you hit a good overhead, the fact of your opponent turning around is moot as you have already won the point

JavierLW
03-31-2009, 04:37 PM
it may be wrong in your opinion...but it's not wrong

you also stand the risk of angering you opponent, and he may start playing much better and change the whole tenor of the match...if that happens, than it was a bad tactic

and i don't see the advantage of getting your opponent to turn around during your overhead as any real advantage...if you hit a good overhead, the fact of your opponent turning around is moot as you have already won the point

No, you are wrong. If you are trying to win the point and not purposely trying to hit or harm someone then there is nothing wrong with hitting it toward someone. (either at their feet or at least low where it has the best chance of not coming back)

If they turn around and give up everytime then it makes it a lot easier to win the point because you can just tap it in behind them for the winner. It makes the chance of a mishit go away almost entirely. (and it saves you from accidently hitting them and watching them cry)

Ronaldo
03-31-2009, 05:09 PM
it may be wrong in your opinion...but it's not wrong

you also stand the risk of angering you opponent, and he may start playing much better and change the whole tenor of the match...if that happens, than it was a bad tactic

and i don't see the advantage of getting your opponent to turn around during your overhead as any real advantage...if you hit a good overhead, the fact of your opponent turning around is moot as you have already won the point

Change the Tenor of the match to a Soprano.

strike
04-01-2009, 03:30 AM
If you are trying to win the point and not purposely trying to hit or harm someone then there is nothing wrong with hitting it toward someone. (either at their feet or at least low where it has the best chance of not coming back)

again, opinion
if one wins the point, that is what is important...whether or not you flex your muscles and feel big because you hit your opponent is secondary...you won the point

and hitting near is also a different scenario...there is a distinction between hitting it in the general direction but not directly at or near someone, and intentionally hitting them - as some here have said it is perfectly acceptable to do

I don't have a problem hitting near an opponent, so long as the person hitting the overhead has the skill to not hit them...but intentionally hitting them is a whole different story...as was pointed out, even the pros don't intentionally hit their opponents on overheads much at all

blakesq
04-01-2009, 05:33 AM
You said: "i don't see the advantage of getting your opponent to turn around during your overhead as any real advantage." Do you even play tennis? If your opponent turns around, the chances of him returning the ball is very low. If the opponent is facing you, the chances of him returning the ball are higher. This is just a basic fact, not an opinion.

it may be wrong in your opinion...but it's not wrong

you also stand the risk of angering you opponent, and he may start playing much better and change the whole tenor of the match...if that happens, than it was a bad tactic

and i don't see the advantage of getting your opponent to turn around during your overhead as any real advantage...if you hit a good overhead, the fact of your opponent turning around is moot as you have already won the point

strike
04-01-2009, 05:43 AM
You said: "i don't see the advantage of getting your opponent to turn around during your overhead as any real advantage." Do you even play tennis? If your opponent turns around, the chances of him returning the ball is very low. If the opponent is facing you, the chances of him returning the ball are higher. This is just a basic fact, not an opinion.

maybe next time take the whole quote...the end of that sentence read, "if you hit a good overhead the fact of your opponent turning around is moot as you've already won the point." which I repeat...

on your point, if you hit a good return not even in the direction of your opponent, the chance of them getting it back is even slimmer than if you hit it in their direction....yet you still suggest hitting it at your opponent as a better tactic than hitting it away from them...amazing :confused:

no, I don't play tennis...I just frequent this board during work for kicks, own the alpha stringer, nope haven't played for let's see, 25 years, etc., no, just here for no reason at all...

Josherer
04-01-2009, 06:08 AM
Agree with OP

JavierLW
04-01-2009, 06:08 AM
again, opinion
if one wins the point, that is what is important...whether or not you flex your muscles and feel big because you hit your opponent is secondary...you won the point

and hitting near is also a different scenario...there is a distinction between hitting it in the general direction but not directly at or near someone, and intentionally hitting them - as some here have said it is perfectly acceptable to do

I don't have a problem hitting near an opponent, so long as the person hitting the overhead has the skill to not hit them...but intentionally hitting them is a whole different story...as was pointed out, even the pros don't intentionally hit their opponents on overheads much at all

Nobody said it's okay to intentionally hit anyone, that's goofy. Stop exaggerating.

There is a difference between someone who clearly was hit intentionally and someone who's whining and crying because they accidently got hit. (sometimes because they didnt get out of the way)

strike
04-01-2009, 06:15 AM
Nobody said it's okay to intentionally hit anyone, that's goofy. Stop exaggerating.

There is a difference between someone who clearly was hit intentionally and someone who's whining and crying because they accidently got hit. (sometimes because they didnt get out of the way)

Rimmer (Red Dwarf was a great show...) -

go back and read the first few pages, plenty of guys saying it is OK and they do it...

i agree if one is hit unintentionally, that is a different story, and no reason to whine ... i have been hit many times, and almost all of them I think were unintentional, and I didn't retaliate with an overhead...perhaps a hard FH off a 2nd serve in their direction, but not an overhead when their sitting ducks

JavierLW
04-01-2009, 06:17 AM
maybe next time take the whole quote...the end of that sentence read, "if you hit a good overhead the fact of your opponent turning around is moot as you've already won the point." which I repeat...

on your point, if you hit a good return not even in the direction of your opponent, the chance of them getting it back is even slimmer than if you hit it in their direction....yet you still suggest hitting it at your opponent as a better tactic than hitting it away from them...amazing :confused:

no, I don't play tennis...I just frequent this board during work for kicks, own the alpha stringer, nope haven't played for let's see, 25 years, etc., no, just here for no reason at all...

I didnt think you played tennis. :-)

Your quote is not relevent because if the person turns around you dont have to hit "as good as an overhead" as you would if they dont turn around.

Read any good strategy book and it talks about how if you are close and one of your opponents are close, that's sometimes the best place to put the ball (at least if it's at their feet where it's hard for them to get it back)

They have the least amount of time to do anything about it, where if you hit to the open court someone who is further back may have time to run it down.

Obviously if you have access to the "hole" (an area where both players will not even touch the ball if you hit it well enough) that's the better place to put it but that's not always possible for everyone especially if you have players crowding you at the net.

Either way, if you happen to get hit with the ball, dont be a whiner about it. Dont accuse your partner of intentionally trying to hit you, and if they are your friend dont spend the next hour trying to "confront them" because you think they've done something wrong. It's just tennis....

If you are afraid of getting hurt in some weird freak incident then dont play. (or at least wear better protection)

JavierLW
04-01-2009, 06:21 AM
Rimmer (Red Dwarf was a great show...) -

go back and read the first few pages, plenty of guys saying it is OK and they do it...

i agree if one is hit unintentionally, that is a different story, and no reason to whine ... i have been hit many times, and almost all of them I think were unintentional, and I didn't retaliate with an overhead...perhaps a hard FH off a 2nd serve in their direction, but not an overhead when their sitting ducks

Well in almost every example on here, it's whining or at least it sounds like it. You cant prove that anyone was hit intentionally. (even in the OP since we cant read that guy's mind, except to wonder what the heck he's even doing in that "for fun" match)

Saying it's okay IF you hit someone and saying it's okay TO hit someone are sort of two different things. In the context of any example in this thread it is okay because in both examples it's silly to assume there is any intention. (the one later on by the guy who's wife wears the pants in the family was even better because he's just going at people's feet which is a perfectly acceptable "safe" way of getting the job done. If you get seriously injured by a ball striking your foot that would be something.....)

It's not a picture of Rimmer, it's Gordan Brittas. :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brittas_Empire

strike
04-01-2009, 06:33 AM
Well in almost every example on here, it's whining or at least it sounds like it. You cant prove that anyone was hit intentionally. (even in the OP since we cant read that guy's mind, except to wonder what the heck he's even doing in that "for fun" match)

Saying it's okay IF you hit someone and saying it's okay TO hit someone are sort of two different things. In the context of any example in this thread it is okay because in both examples it's silly to assume there is any intention. (the one later on by the guy who's wife wears the pants in the family was even better because he's just going at people's feet which is a perfectly acceptable "safe" way of getting the job done. If you get seriously injured by a ball striking your foot that would be something.....)

It's not a picture of Rimmer, it's Gordan Brittas. :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brittas_Empire

uh, there is even one guy saying he and his friends are keeping count and that you should practice how you play, another stating he has been hit hard, and hits others hard and that it's just tennis, another saying to never give mercy and should have hit someone in the back because of a fluke play...sorry, that is just wrong...you may feel otherwise, but again, that is your opinion - whether you believe/accept/deny/or refute again in another post

everybody has their own tactics and opinions...but just because you feel a certain way, doesn't make anothers' wrong

he played Rimmer...

blakesq
04-01-2009, 06:34 AM
What if you hit a bad overhead, wouldn't the fact that the opponent is turned around, be a GOOD THING? come one, this is common sense.

When did I EVER suggest that hitting at your opponent is BETTER than hitting it away from them? Never.

However, on occasion it is good to hit directly at your opponent, For instance, in doubles, you hit directly at the net guy, to get the net guy to worry about poaching the next time. Another reason, is to hit at your opponent when you have an overhead, to get your opponent to start turning his back whenever you hit an overhead.

If you do play tennis, then you know, hitting directly at your opponent is tactic that can work. If you choose not to employ that tactic, fine. I choose to employ said tactic.



maybe next time take the whole quote...the end of that sentence read, "if you hit a good overhead the fact of your opponent turning around is moot as you've already won the point." which I repeat...

on your point, if you hit a good return not even in the direction of your opponent, the chance of them getting it back is even slimmer than if you hit it in their direction....yet you still suggest hitting it at your opponent as a better tactic than hitting it away from them...amazing :confused:

no, I don't play tennis...I just frequent this board during work for kicks, own the alpha stringer, nope haven't played for let's see, 25 years, etc., no, just here for no reason at all...

strike
04-01-2009, 06:42 AM
What if you hit a bad overhead, wouldn't the fact that the opponent is turned around, be a GOOD THING? come one, this is common sense.

When did I EVER suggest that hitting at your opponent is BETTER than hitting it away from them? Never.

However, on occasion it is good to hit directly at your opponent, For instance, in doubles, you hit directly at the net guy, to get the net guy to worry about poaching the next time. Another reason, is to hit at your opponent when you have an overhead, to get your opponent to start turning his back whenever you hit an overhead.

If you do play tennis, then you know, hitting directly at your opponent is tactic that can work. If you choose not to employ that tactic, fine. I choose to employ said tactic.

as I said, I employ it, but not with an overhead when someone is a sitting duck that can actually hurt them...if I feel my opponent is getting too comfortable at net, or hit me or my partner, or whatever, I often hit a FH at him to accomplish the same thing - when it is the right time and I know I won't hurt them and will win the point

if you hit a bad overhead, then you hit a bad overhead - if your opponent can even get it back, it likely is coming back soft so you can put it away - if he hits a winner, then next time don't hit a bad overhead, and make sure you hit it to the open court further away from him

again, all theoretical, i don't play

JavierLW
04-01-2009, 07:03 AM
uh, there is even one guy saying he and his friends are keeping count and that you should practice how you play, another stating he has been hit hard, and hits others hard and that it's just tennis, another saying to never give mercy and should have hit someone in the back because of a fluke play...sorry, that is just wrong...you may feel otherwise, but again, that is your opinion - whether you believe/accept/deny/or refute again in another post

everybody has their own tactics and opinions...but just because you feel a certain way, doesn't make anothers' wrong

he played Rimmer...

I went thru this whole thread and still nobody has said anything about how it's okay to INTENTIONALLY HIT SOMEONE. It's okay IF you happened to have hit someone, that's different. (and whether you want to keep count or not is besides the point as long as you are not doing it intently)

You are generalizing too much.

But you are right, just because you feel a certain way, doesnt make another person's opinion WRONG. That's the whole point that should be applied to the OP.

Getting hit with the ball is just part of tennis, so you dont have the right to sit there and nitpick what SOMEONE ELSE chooses to do with the ball.

(unless you know somehow they are doing it just for the express purpose of hitting or hurting someone with the ball which is extremely rare and most of the time if you sit and accuse someone of that you are being an insulting paranoid crybaby)

Gordan Brittas did not play Rimmer. Chris Barrie (an actor) played Rimmer. (Rimmer is not a real person....)

That is a picture of Chris Barrie playing Gordan Brittas, not of him playing Rimmer. Stop typecasting the poor guy just because you havent seen any of his other work. :-)

"The Brittas Empire" in my opinion is a far better display of his talent since he plays the central character. (and it's a little more down to earth)

Actually I thought that picture was cool because most people probably dont even know who that guy is, and I figured of those that did, they'd immediately think of Rimmer. (not Mr. Brittas who is more obscure although if someone's in the UK maybe that's different)

blakesq
04-01-2009, 07:25 AM
How do you KNOW that Chris Barrie isn't simply a Hologram, whose real name is Arnold Rimmer!!!


snip
Gordan Brittas did not play Rimmer. Chris Barrie (an actor) played Rimmer. (Rimmer is not a real person....)

That is a picture of Chris Barrie playing Gordan Brittas, not of him playing Rimmer. Stop typecasting the poor guy just because you havent seen any of his other work. :-)

"The Brittas Empire" in my opinion is a far better display of his talent since he plays the central character. (and it's a little more down to earth)

Actually I thought that picture was cool because most people probably dont even know who that guy is, and I figured of those that did, they'd immediately think of Rimmer. (not Mr. Brittas who is more obscure although if someone's in the UK maybe that's different)

JavierLW
04-01-2009, 07:52 AM
How do you KNOW that Chris Barrie isn't simply a Hologram, whose real name is Arnold Rimmer!!!

That's true, I dont know that.