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View Full Version : Former Division 1 Standout playing 3.5 USTA Flex league tennis


tennisally
03-24-2009, 05:46 AM
I recently played a USTA FLEX doubles match and noticed that the one player was waaaay above the 3.5 level of the league, although her partner was probably about a 2.5.
I found out that she played Division I tennis in college from a pro at our club. What gives here?
Does the fact that she has a low rated partner make it okay for her to play at a low level? She had a 89-16 high school record, most singles wins in womens tennis, and was named athlete of the year. She is in her twenties.
It was a challenge to play the team but it seems to me that she should know better than beating up on a bunch of 3.5 s....? I have heard stories like this but never encountered this personally.

jgn1013
03-24-2009, 06:20 AM
I you have physical proof then fill out a grievance forms with your local USTA.

equinox
03-24-2009, 06:57 AM
I love against playing teaching pros and college players and top jrs. They provide a great challenge and show up the flaws in my game.

SulkingSally, consider it an honor that a player of her caliber is even willing to step onto a court with hackers.

Jim A
03-24-2009, 07:25 AM
If it is league play, file a grievance, she probably has little to no idea and the captain/administrator filled our her self-rate questionaire online when registering the team

ssgator80
03-24-2009, 08:20 AM
Why in the hell would she play this type of tennis. I would rather have someone poke my eyes out.

Jim A
03-24-2009, 08:39 AM
probably had no idea, if she went from HS/JRS straight to college and played open, likely has never had an NTRP rating...some friends said play with us it will be fun and now she is the ringer.

I would like to see the USTA take someone's number when registering teams provisionally and require the player to fill out the self-rate portion of the site and not the captain/admin who can fill it out without knowledge of the player and answer less than truthful to acheive the proper rating

nocab
03-24-2009, 08:43 AM
There is a current college player in town who plays open events. He is at least a 5.5 player. He signed up for a 4.0 mixed tourney with a weak partner but got dq'd before he started. I just noticed they signed up for another tourney in 3.0 mixed! I'm curious to see what happens.

rasajadad
03-24-2009, 08:52 AM
There is a self rating system for former "elite" players. How she should self rate is age dependent. I think based on the chart, she'd even have to slef rate at 4.0 into her 50's. In any event, here's the link:
http://dps.usta.com/usta_master/sitecore_ustasections/newengland/Document%20Assets/2005/11/22/doc_17_262.pdf

goober
03-24-2009, 08:58 AM
Can you get DQ'ed in flex leagues? They are just for fun and there are no nationls or championships. Not sure if it is really worth filing a greivance.

Jim A
03-24-2009, 09:49 AM
Then all Flex League should just be open since its all for fun

No reason for someone with that kind of experience playing that level, no fun for anyone else involved

LeeD
03-24-2009, 09:50 AM
OK, so one player is 4.5 and the other 2.5....for a 7.0 women's doubs...
Why not hit most balls to the 2.5?
Everyone knows, two middling players can always beat one really good and one really bad player.
So return half the 4.5's serves to the 2.5, your netman back at the service line for defense. Lob over her backhand, lob low and invite her to make the putaway shots.
On your serves to the 4.5, plan on hitting your return over the 2.5's head, thus negating the 4.5 placement and power.
If you volley, aim for the feet or hip of the 2.5.
60% of the time, given FOUR players of different abilities, the two middle ranking players, if smart, will win the set and match.

goober
03-24-2009, 10:38 AM
Then all Flex League should just be open since its all for fun

No reason for someone with that kind of experience playing that level, no fun for anyone else involved

Well have you played in flex league? NonUsta members are allowed to play. I have played against people 2 levels below mine because they self rated way too high. Should I file a greivance against them for playing out of level and making my experience not fun?

Jim A
03-24-2009, 11:23 AM
I think the people who self-rate too high will find their appropriate level, if you aren't familiar with the USTA and read the Self-Rate, there are likely a good deal of people

The D1 player knows better

Maybe they will file a grievance about you being a tool

goober
03-24-2009, 01:18 PM
I think the people who self-rate too high will find their appropriate level, if you aren't familiar with the USTA and read the Self-Rate, there are likely a good deal of people

The D1 player knows better


You could make the same argument that the former college player will find his level as well. Just becuase you played in college doesn't mean you necessarily should know better. A lot of them have never played adult NTRP. Some grew up in foreign countries and never heard of NTRP. Some friend of theirs says hey sign up for tennis with me. Put down you are at this level.

I have played people above me and way below me in flex type leagues. I personally had fun playing both types of players. It never occured to me to file a greivance against them. You play them once and somebody gets bageled. You never play them again. At the end of the season he gets moved up or down. Flex matches have no affect on computer ratings. I personally don't see what the big deal would be.

Jim A
03-24-2009, 01:41 PM
I understand your points Goober, I was just pointing out that if anyone should recognize early on that they are out of place or was playing on a team of friends who were clearly below their level, it was the D1 player.

It is easy to read the self-rate guidelines and think you are much further along then you actually are. Since a captain/admin or the player actually has to take a survey for the self-rate, it should have allowed them to not place her any lower than a 4.0, and even then if she were 60+ in age. There is just out and out cheating going on either by the player or more likely the team captain who registered and filled in the survey online. This happens quite a bit in local leagues as well, so there needs to be some common thread of punishment, say 2 year penalties for all team members involved. A death penalty type of punishment will prevent teams from going after these sorts of ringers and I'd ban the captain for life.

I guess if I'm paying money to the USTA for a league where people don't have to be members, doesn't matter what they are actually rated etc I might as well sign up for a local non-affiliated league or ladder that takes my $12 and allows the same type of play

MomentumGT
03-24-2009, 02:03 PM
I played D1 for 1 season and played 2 seasons on a Jr.C school as well. . . and play Men's 4.0 League. LOL. In our area there are no leagues 4.5 or higher so everyone sandbags to the 4.0's. In quite a few doubles matches I easily had the weakest serve out of the 4 people on court. I also carry a 3.0'r as my partner during doubles but play singles if our team makes it to the later rounds.

I think sandbagging is wrong but everyone here in SoCal does it and its quite competitive, so in our area it balances out IMO anyways. Never played Flex.

-Jon

Jim A
03-24-2009, 02:31 PM
See there are enough people, they are all just sitting in 4.0,

If the punishment is harsh enough, this stuff doesn't happen...

tfm1973
03-25-2009, 05:41 AM
if she's really a former D1 player with 4.5+ skills then she's already being punished . . . by playing in a 3.5 flex league. ;)

MomentumGT
03-25-2009, 10:43 AM
if she's really a former D1 player with 4.5+ skills then she's already being punished . . . by playing in a 3.5 flex league. ;)

LOL Nice. :)

-Jon

tennisally
03-27-2009, 09:13 AM
Hey Equinox-
Nobody is sulking--the match went 7-6 (7-5) 6-4. We lost. Got no problem with that. So, no need to make it personal. And I did play the second match with exactly that in mind. And btw I have plenty of D 1s, pros, and excellent tennis players to hit, and play with they just don't "compete" in ladies 3.5. No kidding.
One daughter plays college and my other is #1 on her HS team. I hope when they are a few years out of college they are not "competing" at 3.5....

I was just asking what experiences anyone had had because it is the USTA's new FLEX league but they don't require a rating, and your results do not affect your USTA rating. So what gives there? I imagine that this will change as the leagues catch on around the county.

Interestingly, my coach (former D1 and WTA tour player 27 years old)--thought it was in really bad form for that girl. I was actually surprised at her reaction, really.

I've decided after all is said and done, at some point you are an idiot to sandbag by that much, it is unsportmanlike, and not the intention of tennis league play, or it should indeed be OPEN play.

goober
03-27-2009, 10:39 AM
Hey Equinox-
Nobody is sulking--the match went 7-6 (7-5) 6-4. We lost. Got no problem with that. .

I don't understand. In your first post you said she was beating up on a bunch of 3.5s. How are those scores beating up on anyone? It looks like she and her partner are playing at the right level (at least as a team they are no better than 7.0 combined). I thought you got bageled or something.

Gemini
03-27-2009, 11:13 AM
I don't really see an issue if she's playing with a 2.5. It is doubles and you have to do your best to exploit the weaker player.

I played a 9.0 match where I was the 5.5 and my partner was a 3.5. We lost that match. Even though I was the "strongest" player on the court (our opponents were both 4.5s), there was not much I could do to keep the other team from picking on my partner.

You might want to revisit whether or not the 2.5 player is REALLY a 2.5.

ttbrowne
03-27-2009, 02:32 PM
Was she out and out playing or was she just playing 3/4 speed?

I don't find it so bad when we play against one of our Pros and he will play slightly above our level. He only goes for the winner if it's a sitter or to reward his partner. It's challenging.
But if she was out for blood, I can see how you could be upset.

WV_tennis22
03-28-2009, 06:08 AM
I'm the manager at a tennis club in WV. We sent a 3.5 womens team to sectionals last year. A couple of the women tried playing 3.5 singles. Well get this, one of our women played a "3.5" woman then, who is now listed as a 5.0!!!!! Its just all crappy politics. Its like, you get with a coordinator and say hey, I'll give you two 3.5's if you rate me a 4.0. We just quit making our leagues USTA at our club. We have 8 teams that play regularly, with no need for the member costs, plus tournament costs and this and that

Jim A
03-28-2009, 08:50 AM
its pretty easy to find players and have the admin falsify the online self-rate survey. My question would be how does a player this far ahead of everyone not get dynamically bumped? Again, the captain for not filling out the survey correctly and the player if there was sand-bagging/hiding going on (ie. won a lot of matches in a tiebreak or 7-6/6-4) should be banned for a number of years, it works and players would get the message...

heftylefty
03-28-2009, 10:51 PM
There is a current college player in town who plays open events. He is at least a 5.5 player. He signed up for a 4.0 mixed tourney with a weak partner but got dq'd before he started. I just noticed they signed up for another tourney in 3.0 mixed! I'm curious to see what happens.

Sandbaggers suck! I would be a shamed if I was a college player entering anything less than 5.0.

netman
04-02-2009, 07:01 PM
Anyone who plays below their true level suffers from some seriously low self-esteem. Either that of they have no ethics. Either way, feel sorry for them.

raiden031
04-03-2009, 03:12 AM
Sandbaggers suck! I would be a shamed if I was a college player entering anything less than 5.0.

I'm not sure I would agree with this. I have been meeting more and more former college players these days and found that alot of them don't have the skills that USTA says they should have. I think it has alot to do with what college someone plays for or what conference.

Topaz
04-03-2009, 03:53 AM
I'm the manager at a tennis club in WV. We sent a 3.5 womens team to sectionals last year. A couple of the women tried playing 3.5 singles. Well get this, one of our women played a "3.5" woman then, who is now listed as a 5.0!!!!! Its just all crappy politics. Its like, you get with a coordinator and say hey, I'll give you two 3.5's if you rate me a 4.0. We just quit making our leagues USTA at our club. We have 8 teams that play regularly, with no need for the member costs, plus tournament costs and this and that

Let's gooooo Mountaineers! :)

Sorry, sorry, ok, back to your discussions!

Topaz
04-03-2009, 03:55 AM
Hey Equinox-
Nobody is sulking--the match went 7-6 (7-5) 6-4. We lost. Got no problem with that..

I don't understand. In your first post you said she was beating up on a bunch of 3.5s. How are those scores beating up on anyone? It looks like she and her partner are playing at the right level (at least as a team they are no better than 7.0 combined). I thought you got bageled or something.

Tennisally, if you didn't have a problem with it, then you wouldn't have made this thread.

Gotta agree with Goober here...that's a very competitive score. Regardless of background, this woman is either playing at the right level, or controlling the score very well. Or, playing against other sandbaggers! :shock:

Gemini
04-06-2009, 10:26 AM
There is a current college player in town who plays open events. He is at least a 5.5 player. He signed up for a 4.0 mixed tourney with a weak partner but got dq'd before he started. I just noticed they signed up for another tourney in 3.0 mixed! I'm curious to see what happens.

Him being DQ'd is pretty suspect in my mind. If he's 5.5 and his partner is 2.5, their average is 4.0 which should be perfectly legit. If either one of them is greater than those ratings, then you've got legit grounds for DQ.

As for the OP, I think it's been said before in this thread but this is doubles. If you can't find a way to exploit the weaker player on a doubles team OR turn the stronger players strengths against him or her then it's pretty much your own fault for the loss. I've only had a couple of occasions where I've won matches where I'm the strongest player on court by far and my opponents refused to take advantage on my partner (who was weaker than either of our opponents). They fed me the ball and I'd put it away.

Jim A
04-06-2009, 12:07 PM
You can't have more then 1pt difference between players in doubles (Mixed) ie. you can have 4.5/3.5=8.0 but not 5.0/3.0 etc

Fedace
04-06-2009, 12:09 PM
I hate seeing a 5.5 guy play in any league that has 3.5 or 4.0 players, especially women. you can kill someone and what fun is that ? 3.5 or 4.0 women get scared of my topspin shots and run away.

duketennisgal
04-07-2009, 04:36 AM
I hate seeing a 5.5 guy play in any league that has 3.5 or 4.0 players, especially women. you can kill someone and what fun is that ? 3.5 or 4.0 women get scared of my topspin shots and run away.

Sorry but if a 4.0 woman is scared of your topspin shots and runs away then she's not a 4.0.

Joeyg
04-07-2009, 06:44 AM
It should be his "massive" topspin as previously stated by Dr. Fedace himself. He also has a preference for hot, smelly blondes and a predilection for wearing women's undies. I am not making any of this up, Dr. Fedace has posted all of the above in previous threads.