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View Full Version : Risk of Damaging Racquets with 2-Point Mounting System?


chang10is
04-03-2004, 03:07 PM
The owner of a pro-shop advised me that there is some risk of damaging racquets when using a stringing machine with a 2-point mounting system. He said that he wouldn't string an expensive racquet on such a machine, citing that if you have 18 main strings and you're stringing at 60+ pounds, that is over 1000 pounds of tension on the racquet. With no side supports, there is a chance of the racquet cracking. What are your opinions of 2-point mounting systems? How big is this risk?

David Pavlich
04-03-2004, 06:46 PM
Better not tell all the people that own a Prince Neos that they are in danger of cracking frames. There have probably been more racquets strung with a Neos/Ektelon 2 point mount than any other single machine.

Granted, there are a few racquets out there that the manufacturer recommends that the tension range be lowered if a stringer is using a 2 or 4 mount system (Head iS10, 12 for instance) but the vast majority are safe in a 2 point system.

I learned on a Klipper and I never cracked a frame. The Klipper is far from the Neos in its clamping and stabilizing ability, but it shows that if the stringer does his duty, the chances of damaging a frame are greatly reduced.

David

drop shot
04-03-2004, 08:06 PM
All 2 point mountings are fine until you crack someone elses racquet. Seriously, todays lighter frames cannot withstand the pressure that the older ones can. My doubles partner who is a chronic racquet thrower can attest to this. He used to toss his POG regularly. He tried this with a few of the lighter Hyper Carbon racquets and they snapped easily.

Gaines Hillix
04-04-2004, 06:18 AM
I agree with David. There have proably been more racquets strung on Ektelon and Prince 2-point machines than any other machines. I strung quite a few frames on a ATS SS II without any problems and this included light weight, thin walled, widebody racquets.

Rabbit
04-04-2004, 07:03 PM
I agree with David and Gaines. It depends on the machine. I'm sure there are some two point mounting systems that aren't top notch, but the Neos isn't one of them. I've strung who knows how many rackets on a Neos and have never come close to having a problem.

Hawaii 5.0
04-04-2004, 09:23 PM
Regardless of the mounting there is always a risk based on frame condition.I wouldn't worry so much about it if unless your stringing at high tension in a light frame.The comment about 18main frames above 60 is not true and I've done it on my Neos tons of times with poly's even.As far as expensive frames, who is to say one customers frame is worth mroe than anothers.Is a 6.0 85 more expensive than a PD? NO.All customers frames should be treated equally as if they are your own.Plus there is no way to tell how much presure is put on a frame less alone an arbitrary # like 1000 pounds.On a Babolat Sensor(sorry it has a superb mounting system) I did a HPS 5.0 MP with Luxilon BB ACE at 79 pounds.Despite the fact the frame is solid,the mounting is superb(possibly the best in the biz), but 60 pounds on an 18M frame is absolutely doable.I've done that on my 135 dollar Klippermate.If you find a machine that can't do an 18main frame at 61 pounds let me know, becuase even the bad machine companies makes machines that can do this.The more supports,the better, but there are other factors that lead to cracked frames while stringing like racquet condition,stringer error.

Jerry Seinfeld
04-05-2004, 09:15 AM
Unsure of the context of the quote, but I would tend to agree with the pro-shop owner.

There is a greater risk with 2-point mounting if the stringer is inexperienced, rushed or otherwise careless. IMO improper mounting is more likely to go unnoticed until it is too late with a 2 - point mount than 4 - 6 point mounting systems.

Likewise inexperienced/careless stringers can also improperly mount in the multi-point systems as well. Just a little less likely because it should be more immediately noticeable.

When 2 point systems are properly used, they have proven to be sufficient for years.

Bottom line...it depends much more on the stringer than the machine. Professional stringers will take great care of your stick, while amateurs may not be as careful or may not be knowlegable of proper stringing methods.

David Pavlich
04-05-2004, 07:13 PM
Jerry: I agree with your premise about a careless stringer using the best machine can crack a frame.

However, the context of the original post is that the pro shop owner wouldn't string an expensive racquet in a 2 point system. In that context, the pro shop owner is wrong. There's a shop across the lake from me that has a fantastic reputation as a good shop to get a racquet strung. They have 2 Neos' going fairly steady (200-300 frames a month). I know the owners and I can tell you that they string every kind of racquet imagineable.

If the pro shop owner in question hasn't the confidence in a 2 point system, then he shouldn't use one. But he shouldn't condemn the 2 point system out of hand.

My first stringer was a Klipper and I strung my son's Graphite II at 72 lbs and never cracked them. I had a DB 26 and strung it at 70 lbs in the same stringer and never cracked it either.

In the hands of someone that is paying attention, 2 points works just fine.

David

chang10is
04-06-2004, 05:17 PM
A big thanks to everyone who has responded so far! David, the pro-shop owner made that comment to say that he thought that the risk of damaging one's racquet while using a 2-point mounting system was great enough that he wouldn't want to string an expensive racquet on it. I don't think it's so much a question of whether the statement is correct or incorrect as much a question of how much risk is involved. Even if you don't crack the racquet while stringing it, there are other ways that you can damage it. Causing it to warp is one way. You can also break some carbon fibers without causing a visible crack; this is part of the reason that some people say that a racquet feels "dead" after long-time use.

One important thing to note is that the person I spoke to was referring to $100 stringing machines, not a $1100 Prince Neos. I know that the mounting system on the Neos is supposed to be better than what you find on most other machines, but I'm new to stringing machines, and I'm not sure how much better it is exactly. Perhaps somebody can tell me what they think of the Klippermate and ATS-SSII? I'm considering these two, and my main concerns are the mounting systems and clamps, but if there are other important things to think about, please let me know!

Gaines Hillix
04-07-2004, 06:16 AM
chag10s, from an ultimate frame safety standpoint there is no doubt that a high end machine with a 6 point mounting system is preferred to a two point, even on a Neos. However, it's a matter of degree. The typical home stringer that only strings his own or a few friends' racquets will do fine with a Klippermate or ATS SS II. I strung with a SS II for 6 mos. or so until I got tired of all the manual steps that were involved and moved up to a crank machine with fixed clamps and then to an electronic machine. I never had any problems with the SS II although I could actually hear the stress that was being put on some of the frames. If you are stringing the frames repeatedly and often, this will put a lot of stress on them over time. Also, if you want professional results, that's more difficult to achieve with a drop weight with flying clamps. I've often recommended the SS II to beginning stringers. It's a basic machine that provides a good starting point to learn on without a large investment. If you find you like stringing and want to get into doing racquets for other people then I think you'll probably want to move up, but you can usually resell these and get at least half of your money back. Proper technique is always critical no matter what kind of machine you have. On two-point systems it's important to make sure the frame is mounted securely so it doesn't slip or move while it's being strung, but it's also important not to tighten the hold downs too tight to avoid damaging the frame.

cantaloupe
04-07-2004, 09:15 AM
I think also that with the constant pull machines it's wiser to choose a 6 point mounting system, because the constant upull will keep pulling until the desired tension regardless of whether the frame has deformed or not, but then again which constant pul machine doesn't have 6 point muounting system.


on a side note, does anyone know where i can purchase a good quality mounting system or turnable, like the one on the babolat star. Maybe someone here's got a broken star 3 and I can just buy it from them???

SW Stringer
04-07-2004, 09:16 AM
This is an interesting thread but all the responses miss a vital point. ALL racquets are designed to take the stresses of NORMAL usage. Normal usage includes full speed shank shots, court scraping, AND restringing on a two point mount machine (Klippermate, and ATS included). Throwing a racket isn't part of normal use. I've got to believe the stresses put on the frame from a two point mount equal or surpass the stresses of hitting shank shots and court scraping. But if the racket can't pass the test of stringing on a two point mount machine, then the racket company really can't sell the product. By far the largest portion of actively used machines has to be two point mount. So the racket designers MUST make the hoop strong enough and then add extra margin to allow for manufacturing tolerance so that ALL rackets that leave the factory will stand up to the extreme rigors of normal use. That's just common sense.

Gaines Hillix
04-07-2004, 05:14 PM
Cantaloupe, the turntables and frame mounts on most machines are not interchangeable. If you're a machinest, you might be able to adapt one from another machine, but from personal experience with ALPHA machines, there are a lot of variables.

christian
04-08-2004, 06:10 PM
Actually with the gamma machines cantaloupe you can upgrade your mounting system or fixed clamps if you have a progression

Kobble
04-17-2004, 09:09 PM
If the two point mounting system is a quality one you shouldn't have aproblem. I have strung my prestiges with poly at 60 lbs. on the Neos and I have not had a problem yet.

chang10is
04-20-2004, 12:17 PM
Yes, with a good 2-point mounting system, I think there shouldn't be a problem. However, with a low-end 2-point mounting machine, I would not assume that racquets are safe simply because the stringer is made of solid steel. After I posted up this thread and found that most people thought that 2-point mounting was generally fine, I bought an ATS-SS2 and experienced distortion on my Yonex racquet. I strung a 95 sq. in Pro Kennex (oval-shaped head), and the width of the racquet changed by 1/16", which is within the 0.100" limit that the USRSA reports as an acceptable range for most racquet manufacturers. However, my 105 sq. in Yonex with a rectangular head grew by 3/16" in its width, which is about twice as much as the recommended limit. I believe the racquet size and shape both played a role in this.

After a lot of experimenting and getting a lot of advice from other forum users, I think the problem is solved now, but the best solution requires buying extra clamps. Either either a starting clamp or a pair of flying clamps are necessary for the 50/50 method, depending on whether you start at the top of the racquet or the middle for the crosses. So the bottom line is to be careful with the low-end machines with 2-point mounting systems, especially if your racquet isn't the traditional oval shape (I think fan-shaped patterns may be susceptible to distortion also) or if you're stringing at high tensions.

chang10is
04-20-2004, 12:19 PM
You can read more about the distortion problem I encountered here: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/viewtopic.php?t=4824

easilypassed
04-22-2004, 08:24 AM
chang10is, are you a customer of that proshop owner? are his machines more than 2 point mounting? perhaps his statement is slanted to try and retain customers. i agree with previous posts, if you stay within recommended tension range and use proper stringing techniques, two point mounting is fine.

chang10is
04-24-2004, 10:03 PM
chang10is, are you a customer of that proshop owner? are his machines more than 2 point mounting? perhaps his statement is slanted to try and retain customers. i agree with previous posts, if you stay within recommended tension range and use proper stringing techniques, two point mounting is fine.

No, I'm not a customer of the person I spoke with. He lives hundreds of miles away from me, and he would have no reason to give a slanted view of machines because I have never met him in person and probably never will. I know he had an Ektelon machine at one point, but even if it was a 2-point mounting machine, our converation focused around inexpensive drop-weight machines.

I'm not the only person to report distortion when stringing a tennis racquet with a low-end 2-point machine. Here's something from another thread (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/viewtopic.php?t=3204)

I strung two identical brand new Head Ti.S6 racquets. One on a Klippermate and one on a Gamma 5003 with 6 point mounting. I measured the length of each racquet before and after. I also made absolutely sure that each racquet was properly mounted while stringing. After I strung my first Ti.s6, with the Klippermate. I thought it looked a little "squattier" (don't know if that is a word) Sure enough it was about 1/8 inch shorter than the unstrung Ti.s6.

Perhaps I'll create a poll and see what kind of results people get with their machines.