PDA

View Full Version : Better Career: Venus Williams or Justine Henin?


soyizgood
04-05-2009, 07:29 AM
Serena, much to my chagrin, is easily the WTA player of the decade. That leaves #2 up for grabs between Venus Williams and Justine Henin. Both have 7 slams, Olympic gold, year end championships, 41 singles titles. Two of the few women to be an even bet when facing Serena.

Darn, I misspelled who's. Oh well, you get the idea. :)

marc45
04-05-2009, 07:39 AM
i'm just upset justine left, because she had the chance to be the number one player of her time competing against serena and venus, and that's really the only argument that matters on the women's side....by that i mean there is no way any of them are going to approach the career records of graf, navratilova, evert, court, and bjk in the way that fed and nadal can make a run at pete, borg, and laver....of course we know the women's tour is deeper now than when chris and martina were reaching every final so there is a reason, but that battle between justine, serena, and venus for the best of their generation would have been great to see played out another five or more years

JeMar
04-05-2009, 07:57 AM
I'd say Justine. I mean, she pretty much carried the women's tour for a while there.

soyizgood
04-05-2009, 08:05 AM
I was very disappointed Justine left so suddenly. To go out after being bageled twice (Sharapova, Serena) and breadsticked once (Safina) left a foul taste in my mouth. I thought she was more of a warrior than that. I didn't see Serena quit when Justine beat her in 3 straight slam quarterfinals in '07.

Serena, Justine, and Venus have been the triumvirate of women's tennis this decade. Lots of history between Serena and Justine, Venus and Serena, and Justine looked like she finally figured Venus out.

Oh well, Justine's retirement in the short run made the top rankings a mess. Venus looks revived and poised to get back to the very top. I expect Venus to finish with more titles than Justine, but I don't know if that really is the deciding factor.

split-step
04-05-2009, 08:26 AM
Venus has definitely had the better career than Justine. It's not really close.

While they both have 41 singles titles, Venus has been to more finals than Justine. (6 more)
Venus also has a very distinguished doubles career having won all doubles slams and 2 olympic gold medals in doubles. (2 slams in mixed as well.)

Some will dismiss her doubles career only to focus on her singles but the fact is, Venus is still playing and will add to her singles titles, if not slams so no big deal there.

JeMar
04-05-2009, 08:29 AM
I guess if you add doubles to this, it's clearly Venus. I thought they were talking about just singles.

gj011
04-05-2009, 08:32 AM
Justine. She won three different slams while Venus managed to win Wimbledon and USO only.

austintennis2005
04-05-2009, 08:33 AM
Who gives a ****?

JeMar
04-05-2009, 08:36 AM
I'd say career doubles grand slam > Australian Open.

egn
04-05-2009, 08:41 AM
Overall including doubles and singles Venus by a landslide. However if it is just singles Justine, sadly Venus like her sister wasted talent. She should have been year end number 1 for 2 years in a row back in 00 and 01 but lack of dedication stopped her from ever obtaining that. With more focus on tennis from 2003-2007 she would have a couple more slams and probably won that Australian Open..sadly Venus career does not reflect her talent and if it had not been for her own sister she would be looked upon with a lot higher regard..if only she could have score one or two wins against her sister in the big games things might be a little different.

split-step
04-05-2009, 08:48 AM
Justine. She won three different slams while Venus managed to win Wimbledon and USO only.

So by your logic Maria has had a better career than Venus?

gj011
04-05-2009, 08:50 AM
So by your logic Maria has had a better career than Venus?

No. But when they have close careers, i.e same number of slams, titles, ..., this is a tiebreaker.

RoddickAce
04-05-2009, 08:55 AM
So by your logic Maria has had a better career than Venus?

Unlike Henin, Maria doesn't have 7 grand slams(tied with Venus). Just like how some people will regard Fed a better than sampras if he tied sampras with 14, cuz of his success on clay. Btw I only used that as an analogy, please don't get into the GOAT stuff everyone.

split-step
04-05-2009, 09:31 AM
No. But when they have close careers, i.e same number of slams, titles, ..., this is a tiebreaker.

Another tie-breaker would be their respective doubles careers. After all since you are trying to show that Henin is better because she won 3 diferent slams,
one can also say Venus is more rounded and better because she is great at singles AND doubles.

split-step
04-05-2009, 09:33 AM
Unlike Henin, Maria doesn't have 7 grand slams(tied with Venus). Just like how some people will regard Fed a better than sampras if he tied sampras with 14, cuz of his success on clay. Btw I only used that as an analogy, please don't get into the GOAT stuff everyone.

The Fed/Sampras analogy is flawed because they both don't have great doubles careers. Therefore, using clay success as a tiebreaker works well for them.
Not so for Venus and Henin.

gj011
04-05-2009, 10:29 AM
The Fed/Sampras analogy is flawed because they both don't have great doubles careers. Therefore, using clay success as a tiebreaker works well for them.
Not so for Venus and Henin.

AO title is a tiebraker for them. They both have titles on their best surfaces and USO.

egn
04-05-2009, 12:20 PM
AO title is a tiebraker for them. They both have titles on their best surfaces and USO.

I think the year end no.1 is what seperates them.

kungfusmkim
04-05-2009, 12:52 PM
I think if venus was in a different era than her sister serena. And she had gotten to those finals... She would be goat by now. if you count all the grandslams she lost to serena and added it to her profile 5 more grandslams including the french and australian. thats 12 GS's.
+++
May i remind you that Serena only lost to Venus and Sharapova in a GS final? Serena just becomes TANK at a GS final and it seems as of Venus is the only one that wins without having to rely on a fluke. Fluke referring to Sharapova beating Serena in 2004.
ALSO.
Edit:
Henin had very very very very very easy opponents in the finals of the GS. Svetlana last eyar at USO. Thats more like a th round match. Also ivanovic, pierce and three from Clijsters. Justine only had trouble with Kim on one GS final. I think the only free GS Venus had achieved was the one against Bartoli at 2007 Wimbledon finals.

boredone3456
04-05-2009, 01:01 PM
Henin gets my vote. She won 3 of the 4 majors. Venus 2 of the 4. Henin also dominated the tour for 2 years ('06 & '07). Venus in her later years has only been considered a real threat at Wimbledon and the US Open, whereas Henin was a more legitimate all court threat, who made two slam finals on her worst surface (Grass.), while during both runs beating solid Grass Court Players or top tour players at the time she achieved them. Henin also made the finals of every major at least twice, something Venus will probably never do. Also, Henin going undefeated from last years Wimbledon all the way up to the Quarters of the Australian Open is a powerful accomplishment, being the first to go undefeated after Wimbledon since Graf. Even if Venus Wins another Wimbledon, Henin in my opinion will have better career because of the variety of her slams and her period of domination.

soyizgood
04-05-2009, 02:30 PM
More fuel for this debate:


Venus captured Wimbledon, the holy grail, 5 times while Justine failed miserably in two finals.
Venus was 7-2 vs Henin.
Venus has made more slam finals than Henin (13 to 11).
Henin has 3 years ended as #1 (2 YEC titles), Venus has none (1 YEC title).
Henin has over 100 weeks as #1, Venus has 12 weeks.
Henin has more tier-1 titles (10-7).
Henin won at least 1 slam for 5 straight years. Venus has 2 two year streaks.

crazylevity
04-05-2009, 07:33 PM
Very even, too close to call. Besides, not much point in distinguishing their careers; neither are at the top tier. They've had great careers, almost equally good. They would be ranked next to each other in anyone's book, with preference given to one or the other depending on the weight given to their respective minor accomplishments.

thalivest
04-05-2009, 09:01 PM
Justine clearly. Her career is much more complete. Five straight years winning atleast 1 slam, bookended by a dominant 2003 and dominant 2007. Another year reaching all 4 slam finals, despite winning only 1, along with that year end Championships. Slam titles at 3 of the 4 different events, 4 French Opens, 2 U.S Opens, only 1 Australian Open mainly since she missed it 2 different years in her prime. On her worst surface of Wimbledon grass two finals and two semis. Three years as year end #1 vs none for Venus.

BTW regarding an earlier poster's comments Venus would not even be close to the female GOAT without Serena. She would not have 12 slams as she would have lost 1 or 2 of those finals to someone Serena beat anyway. So probably 10 slams. She doesnt win the 2002 French Open to complete the career slam since Capriati is better on clay and would have beaten her in the final. Capriati very nearly beat Serena in the semis and would have taken the title if she had. Venus only made the French Open final that year since she had a clown draw.