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JuliusWinto
04-05-2009, 05:57 PM
Suprising name at number 2. I found this unofficial chart on Andy Murray's forum. Enjoy. http://www.andymurray.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1998

paulorenzo
04-05-2009, 06:01 PM
Suprising name at number 2. I found this unofficial chart on Andy Murray's forum. Enjoy. http://www.andymurray.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1998

sounds about right for the ATP points race, so far.
well see how many points he gets from tourneys on clay.

clayman2000
04-05-2009, 06:02 PM
That chart isnt right. IF you base the points on the ammount on the ATP site, they should be in the low thousands. And i believe if you work out the points, Roddick should be higher than Federer becuase of Davis Cup.

Nonetheless your point is made, Murray is playing like the 2nd best player in the world

Mansewerz
04-05-2009, 06:02 PM
*waits for gj011 to show up*

JuliusWinto
04-05-2009, 06:03 PM
Yeah. You're right. Still. I think the race is cool. Still suprising how it's gone so far, especially the close proximity of Federer and Roddick. But I guess that will change with the clay too.

JuliusWinto
04-05-2009, 06:05 PM
That chart isnt right. IF you base the points on the ammount on the ATP site, they should be in the low thousands. And i believe if you work out the points, Roddick should be higher than Federer becuase of Davis Cup.

Nonetheless your point is made, Murray is playing like the 2nd best player in the world

The race points, I think, have never been tallied with the same denominations as the rankings. As for leaving out davis cup, I'm not sure.

rubberduckies
04-05-2009, 06:07 PM
Nothing surprising here.

Murray's definitely had the 2nd best season with MS Title, MS Finalist, and 2 additional titles.

JuliusWinto
04-05-2009, 06:09 PM
Ah. There it is. Not updated from Miami though. And I think they will both be the same after it is updated. Just different denominations. My link used the old race denominations........ thanks

rubberduckies
04-05-2009, 06:14 PM
jaja u r wrong that chart it falce the real is this dumn ****

http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/3/en/rankings/championsrace/default.asp

That's from Mar 23, before Miami was included.

That also uses the same point scales as the ATP Ranking systemand includes Davis Cup points.
The OP's uses the original Race points, which were ATP Points divided by 5, and it does not include Davis Cup points.

tudwell
04-05-2009, 06:21 PM
Federer just wants his comeback to look all the more spectacular, so he's letting a few more people "surpass" him before he goes on a rampage and wins the Grand Slam.

gj011
04-05-2009, 06:54 PM
*waits for gj011 to show up*

Here I am. :)
Unfortunately I have to repeat again that race ranking is irrelevant and dead and not used by ATP any more. Only relevant ranking is the official one based on last 52 weeks. Race points are not used by ATP any more since they never showed any meaningful and useful data. At the beginning of the year the period was too short and at the end it was same to real ranking.

The chart OP provided and webasd's link can't be found anywhere on the ATP site and the fact it is still buried somewhere there just means ATP didn't bother to change software to disable it completely.

Here is what ATP FAQ page says about race ranking:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/en/players/information/rankfaq.asp#pointvalue
As part of our changes to the ATP World Tour, we have looked to introduce one rankings system that is as easy to follow as possible. At times, having two, simultaneously running systems – the rankings and the Race - was confusing and difficult for fans to follow. The ATP Rankings represents the sport’s DNA. It demonstrates both a players standing in relation to his fellow pros as well as his position in the ‘race’ to become the year’s ATP World Tour Champion. For that reason we have removed the separate Race points system. It is still being used for doubles because players change partners during the season and because doubles teams can be at different ranking levels, it is impossible to use the ATP Rankings on their own to determine who should qualify for the Barclays ATP World Tour Finals. For that reason we have kept the Doubles Race for the 2009 season.

So singles race points are indeed dead and meaningless.

T1000
04-05-2009, 06:55 PM
if the race mattered, seeds would be based off it and there would be no need for the regular rankings

Bud
04-05-2009, 07:24 PM
How is the ATP going to determine the year end championships, now? By ranking?

gj011
04-05-2009, 07:32 PM
How is the ATP going to determine the year end championships, now? By ranking?

Yes of course. Rankings were exactly the same to the race points at the time year end championship is played anyway.

JuliusWinto
04-05-2009, 07:49 PM
So singles race points are indeed dead and meaningless.

I think we all know that the race isn't being used anymore, but I don't think it's meaningless. It's just a different way of looking at the rankings. They are meaningful, at the very least, because I and others like to follow them. It's interesting to view the rankings as a tournament to tournament evolving thing. Instead of the ranking which is much harder to change. For instance, most people would've agreed that Nadal was number one after winning Wimbledon, but it took several more weeks of poor play from Federer to change the ranking. The race is also used to predict the year end ranking. Recent form matters more in the race.