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View Full Version : Federer should "BULK UP" a BIT!!


wow246
04-06-2009, 03:57 AM
Im not talking bout getting to like a philippoussis size frame.

If you look a vid's of him from 2005/2006 regarded as his best seasons he was sorta built like solid right now he looks like a pencil about to snap and looks like over the off season he's gotten EVEN SKINNIER than 2008.

Ocean Drive
04-06-2009, 04:52 AM
and hypertrophy helps in performance? no it doesn't.

plus, he is holding more fat now than he was before, clearly from the shirtless pictures, he is nowhere near as lean as before.

harinder
04-06-2009, 05:15 AM
he does look thinner to me in his arms and shoulders. mind you, hes always had skinny arms, but previously he use to wear longer sleeve tees so you couldnt notice as easily. the shorther sleeve tighter tops he wears now exposes how skinny he actually is.

Ocean Drive
04-06-2009, 05:58 AM
Federer is the same weight as Nadal, he isn't "skinny".

VictorS.
04-06-2009, 06:36 AM
I was watching a clip of Federer's demolition of Lleyton Hewitt at the US Open '04. I think most would agree that he was at the very peak of his powers during this match. Score: 6-0, 7-6, 6-0. The one thing that jumped out to me when watching was how light & fast he looked. Federer has never been a big guy & even now he still looks pretty fit. But I suppose with age he has naturally gotten slightly heavier. With some athletes (i.e. Lebron James), getting bigger doesn't affect their athleticism. However, I think Federer has the type of build where getting bigger will slow him down. I definitely think Federer needs to hit the weights hard. However, gaining extra 10-15 lbs will certainly do him no good at this point in his career.

Motherwasp
04-06-2009, 06:37 AM
I think that even though he's got a bit of a belly now, he's still one of the fittest guys out there. I bet he could still hit a forehand as hard as he used to 3/4 years ago aswell, I'd love to see that Fed again.

pc1
04-06-2009, 06:41 AM
I suppose it's possible it could help. Didn't Andy Murray bulk up a bit as well as working on his fitness? It certain helped his game.

BorisBeckerFan
04-06-2009, 06:50 AM
It's possible to get stronger with out adding much bulk. As long as he doesn't loose flexibiltiy, speed etc.

Ocean Drive
04-06-2009, 06:51 AM
I suppose it's possible it could help. Didn't Andy Murray bulk up a bit as well as working on his fitness? It certain helped his game.

Gaining muscle or hypertrophy wasn't what helped his game.

He did get stronger and fitter cardiovascularly, but hypertrophy does not do **** in tennis apart from slow you down.

Murray was 19 when he went through the phase of improving quickly so it's only normal he got better, all good players become very good once they enter there early 20's.

mzzmuaa
04-06-2009, 08:31 AM
"and hypertrophy helps in performance? no it doesn't."
This is one of the dumbest things I've read in a while.
Do you know what hypertrophy means or do you just like tossing around the word like an idiot?
If he increases the size of the contractile units of his leg muscle cells, then he'll see an improvement in their ability to generate power.
Murray did this throughout his entire body last year. He now hits harder and runs faster. Being 19 had nothing to do with it. Agassi buffed up at a much later age, and look how he turned out.
Obviously, if they build more than is optimal for their weight:strength ratio, focus on sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, or don't keep their cardiovascular systems up to pace, they'll lose speed and endurance on the court

fantom
04-06-2009, 08:50 AM
I was just telling my wife the same thing yesterday. I'd like to see Federer commit to his fitness like Agassi did in his late 20's. The recipe he used for the past 6 years isn't working now that he's getting a little older. If he got a little stronger in the upper body, wouldn't he be able to handle those high 1HBH's better over the course of a match? Unfortunately, I don't see this happening.

Ocean Drive
04-06-2009, 09:09 AM
"and hypertrophy helps in performance? no it doesn't."
This is one of the dumbest things I've read in a while.
Do you know what hypertrophy means or do you just like tossing around the word like an idiot?
If he increases the size of the contractile units of his leg muscle cells, then he'll see an improvement in their ability to generate power.
Murray did this throughout his entire body last year. He now hits harder and runs faster. Being 19 had nothing to do with it. Agassi buffed up at a much later age, and look how he turned out.
Obviously, if they build more than is optimal for their weight:strength ratio, focus on sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, or don't keep their cardiovascular systems up to pace, they'll lose speed and endurance on the court

I am saying murray's improvement was more due to his age, becoming stronger mentally and improving his tank rather than "gaining muscle".

So you are basically saying that the bigger your muscles the more power, increasing the size of cells does not equal power. That is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard in my life. You can train for power without gaining hypertrophy and therefore carrying around extra, unnecessary weight.

Why don't we see any huge guys in tennis? Because it doesn't come as an advantage, that's why, with your theory, everybody would be trying to be as built as Ronnie Coleman in 2001.

RalphNYC
04-06-2009, 09:32 AM
I was watching a clip of Federer's demolition of Lleyton Hewitt at the US Open '04.
I don't think many people in this forum watch the older matches. Instead they just remember them. It's very hard to remember exactly how Fed played back then. But the first thing you'll see when you watch matches from 2001-2004 is that he bounced around the court like he was on springs. He floated on the court. No longer. More conditioning will help, but he'll never float like he did at ages 19-23. No one can turn back the clock!

ChanceEncounter
04-06-2009, 09:39 AM
With some athletes (i.e. Lebron James)
And it's fair to say that for ever LeBron James, there's a number of athletes that can't. Federer can't count on being a genetic freak for his wins. He needs to make adjustments.

mzzmuaa
04-06-2009, 10:58 AM
I am saying murray's improvement was more due to his age, becoming stronger mentally and improving his tank rather than "gaining muscle".

So you are basically saying that the bigger your muscles the more power, increasing the size of cells does not equal power. That is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard in my life. You can train for power without gaining hypertrophy and therefore carrying around extra, unnecessary weight.

Why don't we see any huge guys in tennis? Because it doesn't come as an advantage, that's why, with your theory, everybody would be trying to be as built as Ronnie Coleman in 2001.
I never said increasing the size of the cells=more power. I said increasing the size of the contractile units=more power. The only feasible way to increase power output without increasing size or number of contractile units is by increasing the efficiency of the nervous system. Considering that these players have been playing the game for their entire lives, I'd say that there isn't much room for improvement in that department.
I also didn't even imply that players should be huge. If you have the ability to read what I said, then you wouldn't have missed what I wrote about weight:strength ratio and the loss of speed.
Ronnie Coleman is primarily a bodybuilder. He focuses on increasing the size of his muscles without regard for CNS efficiency or power output. He aims to increase the size of all muscle cells regardless of whether the increase comes from sarcoplasm, type I or type II(and their subtypes) cells. In other words, his relevance to tennis players is about as relevant to this discussion as your assault against logic.

dirkgnuf
04-06-2009, 02:13 PM
I was just telling my wife the same thing yesterday. I'd like to see Federer commit to his fitness like Agassi did in his late 20's. The recipe he used for the past 6 years isn't working now that he's getting a little older. If he got a little stronger in the upper body, wouldn't he be able to handle those high 1HBH's better over the course of a match? Unfortunately, I don't see this happening.

Part of the reason why I think Agassi's regiment and fitness does not apply here is because fitness has never really been an issue for Federer in the past 7 or so years. When he was younger, Agassi wasn't the most disciplined player, openly eating hamburgers and stuff, not caring much for diet. When he mounted his comeback career, of course fitness is the most important thing, and that's what he did. Consider however, that Agassi's strengths rely on a purely baseline game, while Federer's all-court game relies on a different kind of fitness regime than that of Agassi's.

fantom
04-06-2009, 02:43 PM
Part of the reason why I think Agassi's regiment and fitness does not apply here is because fitness has never really been an issue for Federer in the past 7 or so years. When he was younger, Agassi wasn't the most disciplined player, openly eating hamburgers and stuff, not caring much for diet. When he mounted his comeback career, of course fitness is the most important thing, and that's what he did. Consider however, that Agassi's strengths rely on a purely baseline game, while Federer's all-court game relies on a different kind of fitness regime than that of Agassi's.

When you're in that kind of supreme condition, it gives you a ton of confidence, which is one of the main things that Federer is lacking at the moment. I don't buy the fact that their playing styles dictate different fitness.

Tennis Dunce
04-06-2009, 02:49 PM
I think that even though he's got a bit of a belly now, he's still one of the fittest guys out there. I bet he could still hit a forehand as hard as he used to 3/4 years ago aswell, I'd love to see that Fed again.

Uhhh.how about 3/4 months ago...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWgG54L40l0

He's still the best tennis player on Earth...just going through some inevitable mental issues...He'll be back, and the Butt-Picker will be running for cover.

Gugafan
04-06-2009, 04:41 PM
I am saying murray's improvement was more due to his age, becoming stronger mentally and improving his tank rather than "gaining muscle".

There is no way Murray would be hitting 140 mph serves had he not packed on the pounds. Stronger core and legs have certainly attributed to the bigger first serve. Murray has a personal team of Dieticians, Physios and coaches. I dont think he would go to the effort of attaining such a lean physique if it was not going to have any positive impact on his game.

VictorS.
04-06-2009, 07:58 PM
I don't think many people in this forum watch the older matches. Instead they just remember them. It's very hard to remember exactly how Fed played back then. But the first thing you'll see when you watch matches from 2001-2004 is that he bounced around the court like he was on springs. He floated on the court. No longer. More conditioning will help, but he'll never float like he did at ages 19-23. No one can turn back the clock!

I disagree. He's just 27. Obviously this is a tennis forum. However, I've seen other athletes turn their careers around after bouts with injuries/illness/etc. Dwyane Wade in my mind is a terrific example. He battled shoulder & knee injuries for over two years. Over the summer, before the Beiijing Olympics, Wade committed himself to an rehabilitation program with the help of long-time Michael Jordan trainer, Tim Grover. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Wade is possibly better than ever athletically. Federer & Wade I believe are the same age. Another bball example is Steve Nash. He was always injured during his early career. In his late 20s & early 30s, he was possibly at his best athletically.

In tennis, like mentioned earlier, Agassi is a prime example.

dirkgnuf
04-07-2009, 12:28 AM
When you're in that kind of supreme condition, it gives you a ton of confidence, which is one of the main things that Federer is lacking at the moment. I don't buy the fact that their playing styles dictate different fitness.

http://books.google.com/books?id=9Ka_Lf3sB6gC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0


If you read on the middle to end of p. 45-46 of this excerpt from "The Roger Federer Story" his trainer states that Federer's creative talent and improvised shots meant that he had to "excute different movements" as opposed to Hewitt (or in my argument, Agassi), who play the same style and hit the same type of shots repeatedly.

Therefore, Agassi and Hewitt play a very similar style, repetitive shots, but Federer's always changing things up. Thus, different fitness routines. Judging by the book and real life results, sounds like it worked.

fantom
04-07-2009, 03:04 AM
Judging by the book and real life results, sounds like it worked.

Notice you said "it worked". Well, It's not working any more. That's my point.

tennis_hand
04-07-2009, 07:20 AM
he does look thinner to me in his arms and shoulders. mind you, hes always had skinny arms, but previously he use to wear longer sleeve tees so you couldnt notice as easily. the shorther sleeve tighter tops he wears now exposes how skinny he actually is.

ya. i wonder why he wants to wear those tees. They make them look old. Maybe Nike wants him to project that image as matured, achieved and established professional.

Those are useless BS on a tennis court. Wear a better shirt and at least feel young and energized again, rather than feel established but get beaten on the court.

adlis
04-08-2009, 12:15 AM
ya. i wonder why he wants to wear those tees. They make them look old. Maybe Nike wants him to project that image as matured, achieved and established professional.

Those are useless BS on a tennis court. Wear a better shirt and at least feel young and energized again, rather than feel established but get beaten on the court.

my suggestion


http://i1.tinypic.com/48cq4ns.jpg

obsessedtennisfandisorder
04-08-2009, 02:17 AM
fitness is irrelevant for fed...it's tactics and volleying skills he needs toworkon

secondly...the fitnessthing with agassi was more about fighting age than
anything todo with coping with opponents.....and the 2002 uSopenonce
again proves skills and tennis talent will always beat fitness.

also,i agree fed needs to tell nike to shove those retirement home shirts.

he should wear 2 sizes too large a shirt and it willmake himlook great.

I have my whole tennis career...and no...it doesn'taffect shotmaking atall.

THUNDERVOLLEY
04-08-2009, 05:01 PM
When you're in that kind of supreme condition, it gives you a ton of confidence, which is one of the main things that Federer is lacking at the moment. I don't buy the fact that their playing styles dictate different fitness.

Logically, one would need to be in greater shape to successfully take advantage of more of the court than one who (essentially) only uses one part of it.

slicefox
04-08-2009, 05:47 PM
"and hypertrophy helps in performance? no it doesn't."
This is one of the dumbest things I've read in a while.
Do you know what hypertrophy means or do you just like tossing around the word like an idiot?
If he increases the size of the contractile units of his leg muscle cells, then he'll see an improvement in their ability to generate power.
Murray did this throughout his entire body last year. He now hits harder and runs faster. Being 19 had nothing to do with it. Agassi buffed up at a much later age, and look how he turned out.
Obviously, if they build more than is optimal for their weight:strength ratio, focus on sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, or don't keep their cardiovascular systems up to pace, they'll lose speed and endurance on the court


Don't bother, I tried to explain this here awhile ago but I got the same reactions.

Seems like most people here have never picked up a dumbbell, so they think if you lift a weight 3 times you will get OMGWTF HULK!!! And you'll have arms so big you can't bend them because all the muscle gets in the way.

Try it.. tell me how it turns out.

FEDERER>buttpicker.
04-08-2009, 07:54 PM
stop being jealous of the great FEDERER.

Antonio Puente
04-08-2009, 08:30 PM
He's wimpy looking. If he worked out, maybe he could prolong his career and perhaps he wouldn't be intimidated by other stronger players when he stepped on the court with them. More strength = more power and better coordination. Better coordination = better shot making.

David_Is_Right
04-09-2009, 05:26 AM
In other words, his relevance to tennis players is about as relevant to this discussion as your assault against logic.

Ouch! That was about as good a burn as I've seen on here for a while! :)