PDA

View Full Version : Murray OVERRATTED


nadal
04-06-2009, 05:58 AM
It is not feelings but it is facts and here it is:
The number of matches the top 4 faced one of the top 20:

Rafael Nadal 15 matches (12 different players)
Roger Federer 9 (7 players)
Novak Djokovic 12 (9 players)
Andy Murray 10 (7 players) won 8 (2 of them against injured Nadal in Rotterdam and against injured Verdasco in Miami)

Even though he won tournaments and he wasn't tested:
Rotterdam: Nadal played Tsonga and Monfils before reaching the final while Murray didn't play any top 20 till beating injured Nadal in the final.

Indian Wells: Nadal played Nalbandian , Del Potro and Roddick before the final while Murray played Robredo(clay courter) and Federer before falling to Rafa in the final.

I am also surprised of people tipping him to play well on clay and compete with Rafa, how come? His record is 11-14 and had never won a clay tournament.

It took Nadal years to improve his hardcourt play and to win a slam although his record was far better than murray's record on clay and he had also won some hard court tournaments so how come murray be one of the favourites on clay all of a sudden as people say in a lot of forums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides his movement is bad on clay and the ball bounce high and his serve is neutralized (Agassi was a good baseliner maybe better than murray and was not good on clay).

On grass he will do well but not as Roger or Rafa, both are far better than him and also the ball bounces very low and won't help his defensive style.

To cut it short murray is a hardcourt specialist and even his success on hard courts in the beginning of the season was kind of luck as he didn't face likes of Nalbandian, Tsonga, Monfils,Wawrinka,Simon and Gonzalez as Rafa faced.

Ocean Drive
04-06-2009, 06:01 AM
It is not feelings but it is facts and here it is:
The number of matches the top 4 faced one of the top 20:

Rafael Nadal 15 matches (12 different players)
Roger Federer 9 (7 players)
Novak Djokovic 12 (9 players)
Andy Murray 10 (7 players) won 8 (2 of them against injured Nadal in Rotterdam and against injured Verdasco in Miami)

Even though he won tournaments and he wasn't tested:
Rotterdam: Nadal played Tsonga and Monfils before reaching the final while Murray didn't play any top 20 till beating injured Nadal in the final.

Indian Wells: Nadal played Nalbandian , Del Potro and Roddick before the final while Murray played Robredo(clay courter) and Federer before falling to Rafa in the final.

I am also surprised of people tipping him to play well on clay and compete with Rafa, how come? His record is 11-14 and had never won a clay tournament.

It took Nadal years to improve his hardcourt play and to win a slam although his record was far better than murray's record on clay and he had also won some hard court tournaments so how come murray be one of the favourites on clay all of a sudden as people say in a lot of forums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides his movement is bad on clay and the ball bounce high and his serve is neutralized (Agassi was a good baseliner maybe better than murray and was not good on clay).

On grass he will do well but not as Roger or Rafa, both are far better than him and also the ball bounces very low and won't help his defensive style.

To cut it short murray is a hardcourt specialist and even his success on hard courts in the beginning of the season was kind of luck as he didn't face likes of Nalbandian, Tsonga, Monfils,Wawrinka,Simon and Gonzalez as Rafa faced.

I like the way you say Agassi was "maybe" a better baseliner than Murray.

cwalbridge
04-06-2009, 06:02 AM
well murray is an overrated brit, tim henman was better than him:oops::shock::mad:

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 06:04 AM
Great post I have been preaching it for months.

Serpententacle
04-06-2009, 06:25 AM
I can respect Murray's game, but I agree with him being overrated.

JediMindTrick
04-06-2009, 06:28 AM
I only agree that Murray is overrated because he hasn't won any majors. Once (if) he does that, then he has the right to be hyped.

Telepatic
04-06-2009, 06:32 AM
Its only a bandwagon hype and all, you`ll see when clay season and grass come, he`ll be losing more stamina, and some confidence, and by hardcourt season, he will get big pressure to defend his big points so its just temporary in my opinnion.

maximo
04-06-2009, 06:36 AM
It is not feelings but it is facts and here it is:
The number of matches the top 4 faced one of the top 20:

Rafael Nadal 15 matches (12 different players)
Roger Federer 9 (7 players)
Novak Djokovic 12 (9 players)
Andy Murray 10 (7 players) won 8 (2 of them against injured Nadal in Rotterdam and against injured Verdasco in Miami)

Even though he won tournaments and he wasn't tested:
Rotterdam: Nadal played Tsonga and Monfils before reaching the final while Murray didn't play any top 20 till beating injured Nadal in the final.

Indian Wells: Nadal played Nalbandian , Del Potro and Roddick before the final while Murray played Robredo(clay courter) and Federer before falling to Rafa in the final.

I am also surprised of people tipping him to play well on clay and compete with Rafa, how come? His record is 11-14 and had never won a clay tournament.

It took Nadal years to improve his hardcourt play and to win a slam although his record was far better than murray's record on clay and he had also won some hard court tournaments so how come murray be one of the favourites on clay all of a sudden as people say in a lot of forums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides his movement is bad on clay and the ball bounce high and his serve is neutralized (Agassi was a good baseliner maybe better than murray and was not good on clay).

On grass he will do well but not as Roger or Rafa, both are far better than him and also the ball bounces very low and won't help his defensive style.

To cut it short murray is a hardcourt specialist and even his success on hard courts in the beginning of the season was kind of luck as he didn't face likes of Nalbandian, Tsonga, Monfils,Wawrinka,Simon and Gonzalez as Rafa faced.

Its Nadal, no wonder he's jealous of Murray

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 06:43 AM
Its Nadal, no wonder he's jealous of Murray

Yep im pretty sure Rafa is jealous of Murray's zero slams whilst having 6 himself and Murray's substandard clay and grass game.

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 06:47 AM
Murray has never played a full season at the top of the men's game last year he did nothing in the first half of the year so he was fresh during the second half whilst Nadal, Fed and Djoker weren'nt this year he will be more tired and he has alot of points to defend in the second half of the year.

Motherwasp
04-06-2009, 07:09 AM
One of the worst threads i've seen on here. You don't get to No.4 in the world and 3 masters series titles at aged 21 by being overrated.

Your logic insults me.

KFwinds
04-06-2009, 07:15 AM
It is not feelings but it is facts and here it is:
The number of matches the top 4 faced one of the top 20:

Rafael Nadal 15 matches (12 different players)
Roger Federer 9 (7 players)
Novak Djokovic 12 (9 players)
Andy Murray 10 (7 players) won 8 (2 of them against injured Nadal in Rotterdam and against injured Verdasco in Miami)

Even though he won tournaments and he wasn't tested:
Rotterdam: Nadal played Tsonga and Monfils before reaching the final while Murray didn't play any top 20 till beating injured Nadal in the final.

Indian Wells: Nadal played Nalbandian , Del Potro and Roddick before the final while Murray played Robredo(clay courter) and Federer before falling to Rafa in the final.

I am also surprised of people tipping him to play well on clay and compete with Rafa, how come? His record is 11-14 and had never won a clay tournament.

It took Nadal years to improve his hardcourt play and to win a slam although his record was far better than murray's record on clay and he had also won some hard court tournaments so how come murray be one of the favourites on clay all of a sudden as people say in a lot of forums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides his movement is bad on clay and the ball bounce high and his serve is neutralized (Agassi was a good baseliner maybe better than murray and was not good on clay).

On grass he will do well but not as Roger or Rafa, both are far better than him and also the ball bounces very low and won't help his defensive style.

To cut it short murray is a hardcourt specialist and even his success on hard courts in the beginning of the season was kind of luck as he didn't face likes of Nalbandian, Tsonga, Monfils,Wawrinka,Simon and Gonzalez as Rafa faced.

Most of your argument actually proves that he's NOT overrated...

He got a pretty nice win yesterday as well ;)

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 07:16 AM
One of the worst threads i've seen on here. You don't get to No.4 in the world and 3 masters series titles at aged 21 by being overrated.

Your logic insults me.

Well when you here things like he's currently the best player in the world when he has a poor record on clay and average on grass he is overrated.

Motherwasp
04-06-2009, 07:26 AM
I am also surprised of people tipping him to play well on clay and compete with Rafa, how come? His record is 11-14 and had never won a clay tournament.

Besides his movement is bad on clay

What is this based on?



the ball bounce high and his serve is neutralized

WHAT?!



Agassi was a good baseliner maybe better than murray and was not good on clay

Are you kidding me? Agassi won the French open, made the final on two other occasions and made semi's twice, not to mention a Rome masters shield and 4/5 other clay court titles.


On grass he will do well but not as Roger or Rafa, both are far better than him and also the ball bounces very low and won't help his defensive style.

Constructing a point and not playing as offensive as some other players does not make his style defensive. I suggest you watch the Nadal/Murray 2008 US Open Semi-final to see his "defensive style".

batz
04-06-2009, 07:34 AM
It is not feelings but it is facts and here it is:
The number of matches the top 4 faced one of the top 20:

Rafael Nadal 15 matches (12 different players)
Roger Federer 9 (7 players)
Novak Djokovic 12 (9 players)
Andy Murray 10 (7 players) won 8 (2 of them against injured Nadal in Rotterdam and against injured Verdasco in Miami)

Even though he won tournaments and he wasn't tested:
Rotterdam: Nadal played Tsonga and Monfils before reaching the final while Murray didn't play any top 20 till beating injured Nadal in the final.

Indian Wells: Nadal played Nalbandian , Del Potro and Roddick before the final while Murray played Robredo(clay courter) and Federer before falling to Rafa in the final.

I am also surprised of people tipping him to play well on clay and compete with Rafa, how come? His record is 11-14 and had never won a clay tournament.

It took Nadal years to improve his hardcourt play and to win a slam although his record was far better than murray's record on clay and he had also won some hard court tournaments so how come murray be one of the favourites on clay all of a sudden as people say in a lot of forums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides his movement is bad on clay and the ball bounce high and his serve is neutralized (Agassi was a good baseliner maybe better than murray and was not good on clay).

On grass he will do well but not as Roger or Rafa, both are far better than him and also the ball bounces very low and won't help his defensive style.

To cut it short murray is a hardcourt specialist and even his success on hard courts in the beginning of the season was kind of luck as he didn't face likes of Nalbandian, Tsonga, Monfils,Wawrinka,Simon and Gonzalez as Rafa faced.


Possibly the most infantile, puerile, one-eyed assessment of Murray I've ever seen on here - and I've had the misfortune to read Cesc Fabregas' posts!

This over-rated guy (over-rated in what way incidentally?), is he the same guy who since last year's Wimbledon has the best win loss record on tour (57-7)? The guy who has won 3 of the last 5 masters events and making final and QF of the other 2? Is it the same guy who has the best win/loss record on tour for 2009 to date (26-2)? The same guy who is the only man to win 3 titles and make 4 finals so far this season? The same guy who is the only player to have beaten 3 of the top 4 this season? The only guy to make back to back masters finals?

Are we talking about the same guy? I think the OP needs to STEP AWAY FROM THE BONG.

Please, for the hard of thinking, I know Murray hasn't won a slam yet, so please don't bore the @ss ofF us all by repeating this, like some kind of anti-murray mantra. It's just a matter of time. I know it, the rest of the tennis world knows it, and deep down, the OP and Cesc Fabregas' of this world knw it too.

Babo
04-06-2009, 07:59 AM
One of the worst threads i've seen on here. You don't get to No.4 in the world and 3 masters series titles at aged 21 by being overrated.

Your logic insults me.

Agree completely, does everyone just sit around and try to come up with new ways to make bad threads?

tahiti
04-06-2009, 08:05 AM
Another load of nonsense. Murray is going to make you eat your words. I'm not saying he'll do well on clay, probably not as well as on hardcourt, but he has no points to defend and I think he'll fair well on grass.

Murray has a great game, has been consistent of late and is beating a lot of top 10 players so where is that overrrated?

crazylevity
04-06-2009, 08:11 AM
Possibly the most infantile, puerile, one-eyed assessment of Murray I've ever seen on here - and I've had the misfortune to read Cesc Fabregas' posts!

This over-rated guy (over-rated in what way incidentally?), is he the same guy who since last year's Wimbledon has the best win loss record on tour (57-7)? The guy who has won 3 of the last 5 masters events and making final and QF of the other 2? Is it the same guy who has the best win/loss record on tour for 2009 to date (26-2)? The same guy who is the only man to win 3 titles and make 4 finals so far this season? The same guy who is the only player to have beaten 3 of the top 4 this season? The only guy to make back to back masters finals?

Are we talking about the same guy? I think the OP needs to STEP AWAY FROM THE BONG.

Please, for the hard of thinking, I know Murray hasn't won a slam yet, so please don't bore the @ss ofF us all by repeating this, like some kind of anti-murray mantra. It's just a matter of time. I know it, the rest of the tennis world knows it, and deep down, the OP and Cesc Fabregas' of this world knw it too.

And I might add, the only reason he hasn't beaten all 4 is that he can't beat himself.

Federer4life
04-06-2009, 08:24 AM
One of the worst threads i've seen on here. You don't get to No.4 in the world and 3 masters series titles at aged 21 by being overrated.

Your logic insults me.Could not agree more

gj011
04-06-2009, 08:37 AM
Murray is neither overrated nor underrated. He is treated just about right.
Djokovic is underrated, and Roddick, Verdasco, Tsonga and other heroes for the day are way overrated on this board together with the current Federer.

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 10:11 AM
Possibly the most infantile, puerile, one-eyed assessment of Murray I've ever seen on here - and I've had the misfortune to read Cesc Fabregas' posts!

This over-rated guy (over-rated in what way incidentally?), is he the same guy who since last year's Wimbledon has the best win loss record on tour (57-7)? The guy who has won 3 of the last 5 masters events and making final and QF of the other 2? Is it the same guy who has the best win/loss record on tour for 2009 to date (26-2)? The same guy who is the only man to win 3 titles and make 4 finals so far this season? The same guy who is the only player to have beaten 3 of the top 4 this season? The only guy to make back to back masters finals?

Are we talking about the same guy? I think the OP needs to STEP AWAY FROM THE BONG.

Please, for the hard of thinking, I know Murray hasn't won a slam yet, so please don't bore the @ss ofF us all by repeating this, like some kind of anti-murray mantra. It's just a matter of time. I know it, the rest of the tennis world knows it, and deep down, the OP and Cesc Fabregas' of this world knw it too.



Actually Nadal has

Federer- At the Australian
Djoker- Davis cup
Murray- Indian Wells

batz
04-06-2009, 10:20 AM
Actually Nadal has

Federer- At the Australian
Djoker- Davis cup
Murray- Indian Wells


I stand corrected Cesc - I'd forgot about DC.

He's still beat the other members of the big 4; unlike a couple of other guys I could mention :wink:

deltox
04-06-2009, 10:24 AM
he speaks of murray not having to play any top players.. how bout miami.. did nadal play anyone of caliber .. and win? um.. no.


get off the nadal bandwagon and open your eyes.. murray is the one player on tour with a chance to catch and pass nadal all around over the next few seasons

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 10:26 AM
deltox how is Nadal a bandwagon the guy has 6 majors and is world number 1?

cknobman
04-06-2009, 10:45 AM
quit being such a baby just because your boy got taken down by DelPo.

I see Nadal on the receiving ends of a Murray spanking before the end of the year.

skip1969
04-06-2009, 10:56 AM
give it a couple of weeks. then he'll be underrated. then he'll be overrated again. then underrated.

every player on the tour goes through this here on ttw, depending on whether he won or lost his last match.

*yawn*

batz
04-06-2009, 10:57 AM
Murray's game is a drag. A hacker that frustrates the opponent and me watching. How long will he survive playing that horrible defensive game. The problem is the British media have already started hyping him up and before you know it he'll be nowhere. He's started the year well, but what happened in Australia? Their excuse was he had a cold. I wonder what he'll have at the French. Remember players like Rios, Enquist, Norman, Muster. They all did well in masters but only managed 1 GS final appearance. He's already had his.

Have you always been a master of understatement?

Had any of those guys you listed achieved what Murray has by the age of 21?

nadal
04-06-2009, 11:39 AM
guys he is very lucky, what if he faced Tsonga in IW or Nalbandian in Miami?
he would have lost against both and if he passed them it would affect his run because it will be a difficult win.

also what makes me angry his words that he will be number one!!!!!! only for winning best of 3 matches and falling in best of 5 what if the masters were like old days 5 sets

SaintClaires
04-06-2009, 11:44 AM
What about this guy?


http://images.paraorkut.com/img/pics/images/r/rafael_nadal-6850.jpg

nadal
04-06-2009, 11:51 AM
also what will hinder him from being number 1 is his mentality, never admitting that the opponent was better like in AO against Verdasco the virus issue rise all of a sudden and in IW the wind was the reason as if Nadal was born on wind(it was a condition for both)

he is short term thinking and this is obvious in his play he keeps running on all the points and this will exhauste him (just don't say Nadal do like him, Nadal runs on some points not all the points he doesn't run on overhead smashes like murray)

also one of the things revealing his short term thinking what he did in the masters cup insisting to beat federer so not to meet him again and what he wants happen after being kicked by Davydenko(i missed this guy much)!!!!!!!

batz
04-06-2009, 11:53 AM
guys he is very lucky, what if he faced Tsonga in IW or Nalbandian in Miami?
he would have lost against both and if he passed them it would affect his run because it will be a difficult win.

also what makes me angry his words that he will be number one!!!!!! only for winning best of 3 matches and falling in best of 5 what if the masters were like old days 5 sets

He had the worst draw out of top 4 when it was made. Anyway, if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle. Murray can only play the guy in front of him. Had he been winning titles without playing guys in the top 10 then you might have a point. Fact is he's beaten Roger, Rafa and Novak to win his 3 titles. You call that lucky if you like.

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 11:55 AM
I honestly think Murray is going to have a horrible clay court season he ground strokes aren't made for clay, his serve is too flat and his movement which is his best asset in worst on clay and see a lot of second and third round losses for him.

batz
04-06-2009, 12:01 PM
I honestly think Murray is going to have a horrible clay court season he ground strokes aren't made for clay, his serve is too flat and his movement which is his best asset in worst on clay and see a lot of second and third round losses for him.


Murray had 2 second round and 3 third round exits last year on clay. You are basically saying that he will replicate last year's clay court performance.

Cesc - can you REALLY not see that Murray is simply a better player now than this time last year?

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 12:03 PM
Murray had 2 second round and 3 third round exits last year on clay. You are basically saying that Murray will replicate last year's clay court performance.

Cesc - can you REALLY not see that Murray is simply a better player now than this time last year?

On clay no he has improved his serve, fitness and forehand but all those improvments were for his hardcourt game not clay.

batz
04-06-2009, 12:06 PM
On clay no he has improved his serve, fitness and forehand but all those improvments were for his hardcourt game not clay.

So being fitter, having a better serve and a better topspin forehand won't help on clay then?:shock:

OK.

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 12:12 PM
So being fitter, having a better serve and a better topspin forehand won't help on clay then?:shock:

OK.

His topspin forehand is nothing to get excited about and its the power element that has improved.

shadows
04-06-2009, 12:14 PM
also what will hinder him from being number 1 is his mentality, never admitting that the opponent was better like in AO against Verdasco the virus issue rise all of a sudden and in IW the wind was the reason as if Nadal was born on wind(it was a condition for both)

lol such lies xD

AO interview
Q. Clearly you're not a hundred percent. Exactly how do you feel and how did it affect you during the match?

ANDY MURRAY: No, I mean, I didn't feel terrible at all. You know, I had my chances. He served incredible in the fourth and fifth sets. So, you know, he deserves the credit for the win.

I mean, you know, even though I didn't, you know, play my best, in the second set and the beginning of the fourth set, you know, I had chances to get back into the fourth set. Also had a chance to go up in the fifth set.

You know, he served huge. You know, he started serving like, 215 plus on a lot of his first serves. The fourth set, I think he served like 93% first serves. Sometimes you've just got to say too good, and he played better than me.

Murray clearly admitted that Verdasco deserved to have won and refused to blame it on being ill lol

As for IW I didn't see the final, but from Murrays comments in the interview it seems he states that Nadal dealt with the conditions much better than him and that Rafas better footwork was vital for dictating the points. He doesn't say Rafa won because of the wind, he says he won because he played better in the wind.

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 12:16 PM
lol such lies xD

AO interview
Q. Clearly you're not a hundred percent. Exactly how do you feel and how did it affect you during the match?

ANDY MURRAY: No, I mean, I didn't feel terrible at all. You know, I had my chances. He served incredible in the fourth and fifth sets. So, you know, he deserves the credit for the win.

I mean, you know, even though I didn't, you know, play my best, in the second set and the beginning of the fourth set, you know, I had chances to get back into the fourth set. Also had a chance to go up in the fifth set.

You know, he served huge. You know, he started serving like, 215 plus on a lot of his first serves. The fourth set, I think he served like 93% first serves. Sometimes you've just got to say too good, and he played better than me.

Murray clearly admitted that Verdasco deserved to have won and refused to blame it on being ill lol

As for IW I didn't see the final, but from Murrays comments in the interview it seems he states that Nadal dealt with the conditions much better than him and that Rafas better footwork was vital for dictating the points. He doesn't say Rafa won because of the wind, he says he won because he played better in the wind.



To Murray's credit he usually doesn't make excuses about loses.

batz
04-06-2009, 12:19 PM
His topspin forehand is nothing to get excited about and its the power element that has improved.


You're forever posting that Murray can't generate power off his forehand, glad to see you've let that one go.

I never said Murray's topspin forehand was anything to get excited about. I said that having an improved topspin forehand was A Good Thing. You seem to think that it won't make any difference.

We'll see.

Feņa14
04-06-2009, 12:20 PM
also what will hinder him from being number 1 is his mentality, never admitting that the opponent was better like in AO against Verdasco the virus issue rise all of a sudden and in IW the wind was the reason as if Nadal was born on wind(it was a condition for both)


lol such lies xD

AO interviewQ. Clearly you're not a hundred percent. Exactly how do you feel and how did it affect you during the match?

ANDY MURRAY: No, I mean, I didn't feel terrible at all. You know, I had my chances. He served incredible in the fourth and fifth sets. So, you know, he deserves the credit for the win.

I mean, you know, even though I didn't, you know, play my best, in the second set and the beginning of the fourth set, you know, I had chances to get back into the fourth set. Also had a chance to go up in the fifth set.

You know, he served huge. You know, he started serving like, 215 plus on a lot of his first serves. The fourth set, I think he served like 93% first serves. Sometimes you've just got to say too good, and he played better than me.Murray clearly admitted that Verdasco deserved to have won and refused to blame it on being ill lol


Well after reading alot of what nadal has to say in this thread, I thought he was probably lacking a bit of knowledge.. after reading his comment about the Verdasco match at the Australian Open i'm sure of it :|

He's actually making things up now lol. Someone post a nice picture of a train before he comes up with something else.

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 12:20 PM
You're forever posting that Murray can't generate power off his forehand, glad to see you've let that one go.

I never said Murray's topspin forehand was anything to get excited about. I said that having an improved topspin forehand was A Good Thing. You seem to think that it won't make any difference.

We'll see.

He has improved the power of his forehand but he does still struggle to generate pace look at when Nadal sliced to his forehand in the Indian Wells final.

nadal
04-06-2009, 12:23 PM
sorry guys for wrong informations but his stuborness on beating federer in masters cup is true isn't it?

ezdude1970
04-06-2009, 12:24 PM
Murray is a force in todays ATP, he has an amazing game that translates well on the hardcourts, also Miami's hard courts are as close to clay as one can find, and Murray did well there.

Murray should simply do well based on the fact that other guys (Federer and Djokovic) are fading, so he only has Nadal to compete with. Murray showed so far that on his best he can beat Nadal.

In summary we should see in couple weeks how well Murray does on clay. I would ignore Monte Carlo, because it is a true dirtballer tournament, and lets see how well he does in Rome where the offensive tennis usually excells, the same could be said about FO.

ezdude1970
04-06-2009, 12:26 PM
He has improved the power of his forehand but he does still struggle to generate pace look at when Nadal sliced to his forehand in the Indian Wells final.

IW should be ruled out from any kind of consideration, with the 50 MpH wind, Murray stood no chance.

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 12:26 PM
Murray is a force in todays ATP, he has an amazing game that translates well on the hardcourts, also Miami's hard courts are as close to clay as one can find, and Murray did well there.

Murray should simply do well based on the fact that other guys (Federer and Djokovic) are fading, so he only has Nadal to compete with. Murray showed so far that on his best he can beat Nadal.

In summary we should see in couple weeks how well Murray does on clay. I would ignore Monte Carlo, because it is a true dirtballer tournament, and lets see how well he does in Rome where the offensive tennis usually excells, the same could be said about FO.

Miami is nothing like clay its medium pace and low bouncing Indian Wells is more like clay.

ezdude1970
04-06-2009, 12:27 PM
Miami is nothing like clay its medium pace and low bouncing Indian Wells is more like clay.

he reached the final there as well, and it is my understanding there are different types of clay.

BestLefty UK
04-06-2009, 12:28 PM
Just be thankful that you Americans don't have to hear Mark Petchey singing his praises every other sentence... even when Murray isn't involved at all, you'll hear Mark Petchey somehow bring up the subject of Andy Murray and how "great" he is. I understand Murray is a good player and that he has potential to win majors but don't talk about him as if he is the best player ever to grace the earth.

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 12:30 PM
Just be thankful that you Americans don't have to hear Mark Petchey singing his praises every other sentence... even when Murray isn't involved at all, you'll hear Mark Petchey somehow bring up the subject of Andy Murray and how "great" he is. I understand Murray is a good player and that he has potential to win majors but don't talk about him as if he is the best player ever to grace the earth.

It really annoys me when Murray is playing and Petchy doesn't give credit to his opponant other than that Petchy is a pretty good pundit.

batz
04-06-2009, 12:32 PM
It really annoys me when Murray is playing and Petchy doesn't give credit to his opponant other than that Petchy is a pretty good pundit.

He can go a bit OTT, but I guess it's understandable given their history.

nadal
04-06-2009, 12:33 PM
Murray is a force in todays ATP, he has an amazing game that translates well on the hardcourts, also Miami's hard courts are as close to clay as one can find, and Murray did well there.

Murray should simply do well based on the fact that other guys (Federer and Djokovic) are fading, so he only has Nadal to compete with. Murray showed so far that on his best he can beat Nadal.

In summary we should see in couple weeks how well Murray does on clay. I would ignore Monte Carlo, because it is a true dirtballer tournament, and lets see how well he does in Rome where the offensive tennis usually excells, the same could be said about FO.

Monte Carlo is the same like FO, beside murray is good on hardcourts because he reacts to the shot needs no power while in clay he needs power to make the shot.

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 12:38 PM
He can go a bit OTT, but I guess it's understandable given their history.


Agreed but Petchy on the whole is a nice guy and a good commentator.

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 12:42 PM
Barry Cowan is the guy who I really can't stand.

Feņa14
04-06-2009, 12:44 PM
Peter Fleming! That's where it's at :)

Cesc Fabregas
04-06-2009, 12:46 PM
Peter Fleming! That's where it's at :)

That guy is a legend the way he just improvises on the spot is great and he has great humor.

Love Game
04-06-2009, 12:46 PM
What about this guy?


http://images.paraorkut.com/img/pics/images/r/rafael_nadal-6850.jpg

Sorry, SC, but your guy only got 360 points at
miami. This is the guy took who home the 1000 points!!!

http://i42.tinypic.com/15x0g03.jpg

SaintClaires
04-06-2009, 12:53 PM
Sorry, SC, but your guy only got 360 points at
miami. This is the guy took who home the 1000 points!!!

http://i42.tinypic.com/15x0g03.jpg


I hope you don't mind, but I took your avatar. :):)


Edit: I just changed it, never mind.....

BestLefty UK
04-06-2009, 01:00 PM
Peter Fleming! That's where it's at :)

Yea... Flem is definitely the best especially when he's with Marcus Buckland.

vive le beau jeu !
04-06-2009, 01:23 PM
what happened to the poor rats ? :?

Love Game
04-06-2009, 01:24 PM
I hope you don't mind, but I took your avatar.

knock yourself out! :D
imitation is the sincerest form of flattery! :lol:
theft is the sincerest form of desire!!! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_3_4.gif

SaintClaires
04-06-2009, 01:25 PM
knock yourself out! :D
imitation is the sincerest form of flattery! :lol:
theft is the sincerest form of desire!!! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_3_4.gif


I hope you're not mad :cry:


Edit: Never mind, I just changed it.

Love Game
04-06-2009, 01:33 PM
I hope you're not mad :cry:


Edit: Never mind, I just changed it.

very entertaining! :D

so what happened to you? it seems as tho you disappeared for a while. were you here for the miami 1000?

SaintClaires
04-06-2009, 01:34 PM
very entertaining! :D

so what happened to you? it seems as tho you disappeared for a while. were you here for the miami 1000?


TONS of schoolwork.....lots of studying.....no time to post......


But at least now I have a one week break from school!


Anyway, I'm sure the administrators were very happy that I "disappeared"!!

veroniquem
04-06-2009, 01:35 PM
TONS of schoolwork.....lots of studying.....no time to post......


But at least now I have a one week break from school!
So now you stole Rickson's avie :shock:
Are you an impersonator?

egn
04-06-2009, 01:36 PM
Even though he won tournaments and he wasn't tested:
Rotterdam: Nadal played Tsonga and Monfils before reaching the final while Murray didn't play any top 20 till beating injured Nadal in the final.


Blame him for the top 20 on his side getting upseted? It's a tournament draw it works that way.


Indian Wells: Nadal played Nalbandian , Del Potro and Roddick before the final while Murray played Robredo(clay courter) and Federer before falling to Rafa in the final.


So Federer who kicked the crap out of Del Potro and Roddick this year does not count as good competition for Murray? Or are you trying to say Nadal had it worse having to face Andy Roddick?


I am also surprised of people tipping him to play well on clay and compete with Rafa, how come? His record is 11-14 and had never won a clay tournament.


Nobody has said well just better than last year..which is quite easy for him to do.


It took Nadal years to improve his hardcourt play and to win a slam although his record was far better than murray's record on clay and he had also won some hard court tournaments so how come murray be one of the favourites on clay all of a sudden as people say in a lot of forums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Who has made Murray a favorite on clay? People have all ready said he is fourth on clay out of the big 4. Nadal has been a good hardcourter for a while he just needed that extra push to make him great.


Besides his movement is bad on clay and the ball bounce high and his serve is neutralized (Agassi was a good baseliner maybe better than murray and was not good on clay).


Hold it there now you completely lost me or is there another Agassi? Agassi who at Murray's age had 2 French Open finals is not good on clay? Agassi in his youth was exceptional on clay. He could go toe to toe with the best on clay, he would have won a French Open earlier had he not played like pure crap in that 1990 French Open final..please do not compare the two. Agassi was a far better baseliner on Murray. He won Wimbledon against Goran on fast grass when Goran was probably one of the most deadly grass players in the nineties second to Pete Sampras. Agassi was amazing from the baseline let us not underrate him Agassi was a great baseliner, Murray is not ready to be compared to Agassi yet. Even young Agassi has done more by Murray at this age.


On grass he will do well but not as Roger or Rafa, both are far better than him and also the ball bounces very low and won't help his defensive style.


Rafa is far more defensive than Murray and he had success...yet I agree Murray is not going to be as good on grass as they say but let us see.


To cut it short murray is a hardcourt specialist and even his success on hard courts in the beginning of the season was kind of luck as he didn't face likes of Nalbandian, Tsonga, Monfils,Wawrinka,Simon and Gonzalez as Rafa faced.

So he could take out Federer and Djokovic and Nadal himself...but he could not beat Nalby, Monfils, Wawrinka, SImon and Gonzo? Right....I give you Tsonga as Tsonga's game lines up well to beat Murray but seriously...come on he might be overrated but he is not nearly as bad as you are depicting him.

SaintClaires
04-06-2009, 01:36 PM
So now you stole Rickson's avie :shock:
Are you an impersonator?


He said I could use it......I asked him in the Pro Results section, under the Triple Bagel thread.

Leublu tennis
04-06-2009, 01:38 PM
I only agree that Murray is overrated because he hasn't won any majors. Once (if) he does that, then he has the right to be hyped.Murray is not overrated. He is rated #4, which is exactly where he belongs today. All of his fans who say he is #2 or whatever are just dreaming. Facts tell the story. He is #4. Period.

Leublu tennis
04-06-2009, 01:39 PM
One of the worst threads i've seen on here. You don't get to No.4 in the world and 3 masters series titles at aged 21 by being overrated.

Your logic insults me.Agreed. Overrated, my eye!

deltox
04-06-2009, 01:40 PM
deltox how is Nadal a bandwagon the guy has 6 majors and is world number 1?

being #1 does not mean anything .. if you choose your favorite players because they are #1 or already winning then you truely have no favorites, just people you pull for.. usually the one winning.

Gugafan
04-06-2009, 02:04 PM
Murray will turn it around on clay... He was brought up on the surface at the Sanchez-Casal Academy in Barcelona.

I believe he will be looking to hook up with Alex Corretja again, who certainly helped improve his claycourt prowess last year. Murray has beaten claycourt specialists in the past like Volandri and Acasuso... A favourable draw and he could easily make it deep at RG.

Leublu tennis
04-06-2009, 02:07 PM
Del your avatar is driving me nuts. I think its time to go to bed and dream?

veroniquem
04-06-2009, 02:08 PM
He said I could use it......I asked him in the Pro Results section, under the Triple Bagel thread.
And now you're Fedace :lol:

deltox
04-06-2009, 02:10 PM
Del your avatar is driving me nuts. I think its time to go to bed and dream?

shes my dream tennis mixed doubles partner

SaintClaires
04-06-2009, 02:11 PM
Del your avatar is driving me nuts. I think its time to go to bed and dream?


I think it's time you go to bed, before you start hallucinating. :)

pc1
04-06-2009, 02:14 PM
I don't think Murray's overrated because he's had a great record this year. He has improved immensely.

As far as the clay court season is concerned, well we'll see. You figure with his excellent movement and groundstrokes that he should do well but should and will do well is different.

Love Game
04-06-2009, 02:29 PM
TONS of schoolwork.....lots of studying.....no time to post......


But at least now I have a one week break from school!


Anyway, I'm sure the administrators were very happy that I "disappeared"!!

awww ... i'm sure they're not happy at all. :neutral:

regardless, i'm glad youre back for a week. hopefully, there w/b a tournament to see this week.

but i do have a question for you .....
Q: am I talking to eve? or to sybil? :D

http://i42.tinypic.com/16jqaes.jpg

veroniquem
04-06-2009, 02:36 PM
Murray has already won 3 tournaments this year (of which a master) + a master final. He has the best winning % in 2009 after Nadal. How can he be overrated?

Love Game
04-06-2009, 02:40 PM
I don't understand......:cry:

hey i just noticed something different: before you would have had 4 cry faces; youve changed ... to a different personality?

just kidding .....

"three faces of eve" and "sybil" are both old movies about characters w/multiple personality disorder or dissociative identity disorder.

i just remember the psychiatrists in those movies asking, "am I talking to XXX" whenever it was perceived that one of the multiple personalities was taking over either eve or sybil.

Love Game
04-06-2009, 02:57 PM
The reason that I only used 1 sad face last time is that you used 3 images already in the lines that I quoted you on. I could only use 1 more image :cry::cry:

okay. but when that happens, you just have to delete some of the images from the quote.

so...... i love your new avatar! :lol:

p.s. did you understand my eve/sybil explanation?

UWTC
04-06-2009, 03:03 PM
It is not feelings but it is facts and here it is:
The number of matches the top 4 faced one of the top 20:

Rafael Nadal 15 matches (12 different players)
Roger Federer 9 (7 players)
Novak Djokovic 12 (9 players)
Andy Murray 10 (7 players) won 8 (2 of them against injured Nadal in Rotterdam and against injured Verdasco in Miami)

Even though he won tournaments and he wasn't tested:
Rotterdam: Nadal played Tsonga and Monfils before reaching the final while Murray didn't play any top 20 till beating injured Nadal in the final.

Indian Wells: Nadal played Nalbandian , Del Potro and Roddick before the final while Murray played Robredo(clay courter) and Federer before falling to Rafa in the final.

I am also surprised of people tipping him to play well on clay and compete with Rafa, how come? His record is 11-14 and had never won a clay tournament.

It took Nadal years to improve his hardcourt play and to win a slam although his record was far better than murray's record on clay and he had also won some hard court tournaments so how come murray be one of the favourites on clay all of a sudden as people say in a lot of forums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides his movement is bad on clay and the ball bounce high and his serve is neutralized (Agassi was a good baseliner maybe better than murray and was not good on clay).

On grass he will do well but not as Roger or Rafa, both are far better than him and also the ball bounces very low and won't help his defensive style.

To cut it short murray is a hardcourt specialist and even his success on hard courts in the beginning of the season was kind of luck as he didn't face likes of Nalbandian, Tsonga, Monfils,Wawrinka,Simon and Gonzalez as Rafa faced.

Your intelligence is overrated that people think there is any value in responding to this :)

SaintClaires
04-06-2009, 03:05 PM
Your intelligence is overrated that people think there is any value in responding to this :)


Hi UWTC, welcome to the forums! I hope you have a fun time!

UWTC
04-06-2009, 03:06 PM
Hi UWTC, welcome to the forums! I hope you have a fun time!

Thanks SaintClaires, I will try to!

Clydey2times
04-06-2009, 03:39 PM
Murray has already won 3 tournaments this year (of which a master) + a master final. He has the best winning % in 2009 after Nadal. How can he be overrated?

I think he has a better winning % than Nadal. Correct me if I'm wrong. Murray has 2 losses, whereas Nadal has 3.

SaintClaires
04-06-2009, 03:40 PM
Someone should stick a knife in this thread. Someone should cut this thread with a knife, rather. It will break very easily.

Lendl and Federer Fan
04-06-2009, 07:50 PM
Murray's speed is way overrated, his anticipation is great but not his raw/pure speed. Case in point, I don't remember how many times seeing Nadal or Federer jerk him side to side, he could barely keep up at the end. :twisted:

jimbo333
04-06-2009, 07:56 PM
All I would say is the more people think Murray is overrated, the easier he will find it to win:)

Only 2 tennis players in the world are better than him at the moment. Fact:):)

cknobman
04-07-2009, 07:22 AM
Ill stop saying Murray is overrated when he can win a grandslam.

That really the only thing going against him right now. All the media and more than a few on these boards are putting him up on the pedestal (and yes hes deserving of some of it) when he has yet to prove himself in the most important tournaments of the year.

This year at AO he gets ousted by Verdasco? Dont get me wrong Verdasco was on fire but if Murray is as good as some say then he should have won the AO, in fact most of the media and this board were practically putting a stamp of guarantee that it would happen.

USO last year was an epic choke against a less than top form Federer. Wimby he wasnt ready yet and was blasted by Nadal.

Clydey2times
04-07-2009, 07:36 AM
Ill stop saying Murray is overrated when he can win a grandslam.

That really the only thing going against him right now. All the media and more than a few on these boards are putting him up on the pedestal (and yes hes deserving of some of it) when he has yet to prove himself in the most important tournaments of the year.

This year at AO he gets ousted by Verdasco? Dont get me wrong Verdasco was on fire but if Murray is as good as some say then he should have won the AO, in fact most of the media and this board were practically putting a stamp of guarantee that it would happen.

USO last year was an epic choke against a less than top form Federer. Wimby he wasnt ready yet and was blasted by Nadal.

Less than top form Federer? I think that should end the conversation right there, if you think Federer wasn't on top form in that final.

And losing 3-0 is not a choke.

cknobman
04-07-2009, 07:39 AM
Less than top form Federer? I think that should end the conversation right there, if you think Federer wasn't on top form in that final.

And losing 3-0 is not a choke.

Arguing Federer's form is debatable but last year he was in nowhere near top form.

As for Murray choking....did you watch the match? I did and it was easily apparent that he choked. Scores dont reveal everything.

batz
04-07-2009, 07:46 AM
Arguing Federer's form is debatable but last year he was in nowhere near top form.

As for Murray choking....did you watch the match? I did and it was easily apparent that he choked. Scores dont reveal everything.

No he wasn't in top form for most of the year, but he was at his best during the USO.

We can argue all day whether or not Murray choked (tomahto/tomayto) - but one thing is undeniable; all the cards were stacked in Roger's favour that day, and he took full advantage of the hand dealt to him - all credit to him.

Tennis_Maestro
04-07-2009, 07:47 AM
Troll.

You don't know a single thing about tennis.

Clydey2times
04-07-2009, 07:52 AM
Arguing Federer's form is debatable but last year he was in nowhere near top form.

As for Murray choking....did you watch the match? I did and it was easily apparent that he choked. Scores dont reveal everything.

In what sense? Murray's problem was that Federer played out of his mind and that he stayed way too far behind the baseline.

That call in the second set didn't help him either. Would have been up a break in the second set. At 1-1 who knows what might happen?

Feņa14
04-07-2009, 09:22 AM
Ill stop saying Murray is overrated when he can win a grandslam.

That really the only thing going against him right now. All the media and more than a few on these boards are putting him up on the pedestal (and yes hes deserving of some of it) when he has yet to prove himself in the most important tournaments of the year.

This year at AO he gets ousted by Verdasco? Dont get me wrong Verdasco was on fire but if Murray is as good as some say then he should have won the AO, in fact most of the media and this board were practically putting a stamp of guarantee that it would happen.

USO last year was an epic choke against a less than top form Federer. Wimby he wasnt ready yet and was blasted by Nadal.

To be fair, it was Federer at his best on that day.

SempreSami
04-07-2009, 09:27 AM
And he had him on the ropes briefly in the second set.

tacou
04-07-2009, 11:14 AM
why do these threads pop up right after the player in question wins a big tournament?

also I'm sick of the word overrated. mathematically murray is #4 and you can't argue that. what you think of his game otherwise is opinion.