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Jaalla
04-07-2009, 11:16 AM
Hello, I'd love some info from experienced people. I'm 29 and am playing in my first USTA league after some guys I started playing with asked me to join their forming team. I played decently in high school and a little club tennis in college (not varsity or jv!) before injuries and whatnot set in and then years went by with little to no playing and getting out of shape. Anyway, following the online steps, I self-rated at 3.5. I've played 4 league matches so far and am 3-1 at #1 singles against a benchmark player, two computer rated players, and a self-rated player. In order- Match 1 (L-benchmark) 3-6,6-1,0-1; Match 2: (W-comp)4-6,6-2,1-0; Match 3: (W-Self) 6-4,6-4; Match 4 (W-Comp): 6-2,6-4.

My questions concern possibilities of being DQ'd by 3 strikes rule. I don't know if I am at risk or understand the ramifications. We have 2 matches left in our team league and we are not very good (so I assume this means we won't make playoffs, right???). My first question: If I win the last two matches handily could I be DQ'd? Second question: If I am DQ'd does this negatively affect my team at all if we have a losing record anyway? Also, what excatly is a benchmark player, an average 3.5 player or a top 3.5 player?

Sorry, being new to this I just don't understand the details. Thanks for info!

nocab
04-07-2009, 11:36 AM
1. If you get DQ'd your previous match wins will be reversed to loses. Since your team isn't doing well that probably doesn't matter.

2. A Benchmark player is one that went to a playoff or sectionals, it doesn't mean they are stronger or weaker than someone else.

3. I've seen people get DQ'd by winning close matches against strong players, and I've seen people dominate everyone 6-2, 6-0 and not get DQ'd.

With all that said it matters who you beat more than what your scores are. I wouldn't worry about being DQ'd. I doubt you have a strike and it is very unlikely you have two.

good luck

spiderman123
04-07-2009, 12:10 PM
Hello, I'd love some info from experienced people. I'm 29 and am playing in my first USTA league after some guys I started playing with asked me to join their forming team. I played decently in high school and a little club tennis in college (not varsity or jv!) before injuries and whatnot set in and then years went by with little to no playing and getting out of shape. Anyway, following the online steps, I self-rated at 3.5. I've played 4 league matches so far and am 3-1 at #1 singles against a benchmark player, two computer rated players, and a self-rated player. In order- Match 1 (L-benchmark) 3-6,6-1,0-1; Match 2: (W-comp)4-6,6-2,1-0; Match 3: (W-Self) 6-4,6-4; Match 4 (W-Comp): 6-2,6-4.

My questions concern possibilities of being DQ'd by 3 strikes rule. I don't know if I am at risk or understand the ramifications. We have 2 matches left in our team league and we are not very good (so I assume this means we won't make playoffs, right???). My first question: If I win the last two matches handily could I be DQ'd? Second question: If I am DQ'd does this negatively affect my team at all if we have a losing record anyway? Also, what excatly is a benchmark player, an average 3.5 player or a top 3.5 player?

Sorry, being new to this I just don't understand the details. Thanks for info!

I don't think you are even remotely under the DQ threat. Enjoy your last two matches.

Benchmark players are the ones who the officials have seen at the sectionals/national levels and they are sure that these people belong to this level (most likely the upper part of the band). They are used mainly to calculate the dynamic ratings as you must have a known starting point as the algorithm is complex and recursive.

Jim A
04-07-2009, 12:10 PM
We had a guy here last year who didn't lose a match at 1/2 singles and I don't believe drop a set...but he never was bumped midyear

I've had many of the same questions as you out here and this is my input.

Match #1 - losing to a benchmark was probably helpful to you
Match #2 - this person is a 3.0 but you don't know how strong he is
Match #3 - Self-Rated results won't count in your dynamic ratings its your first 4 matches against B/C rated opponents
March #4 - Similar to March #2

So if you blew out your next 2 opponents and they were strong B players, you may get moved up before the next league in your area. At this point unless you blow out someone else's ringer who is playoff bound you'd be ok in all likelihood

innoVAShaun
04-07-2009, 12:18 PM
Most people in my area get DQ'd for lying on their self-rating questionaire.

For instance, a 3.5 singles player could be winning (sandbagging) close matches in his singles. But once an opposing team filed a grievance against him, research showed that he played in college and said no on the questionaire.

JavierLW
04-07-2009, 12:24 PM
Hello, I'd love some info from experienced people. I'm 29 and am playing in my first USTA league after some guys I started playing with asked me to join their forming team. I played decently in high school and a little club tennis in college (not varsity or jv!) before injuries and whatnot set in and then years went by with little to no playing and getting out of shape. Anyway, following the online steps, I self-rated at 3.5. I've played 4 league matches so far and am 3-1 at #1 singles against a benchmark player, two computer rated players, and a self-rated player. In order- Match 1 (L-benchmark) 3-6,6-1,0-1; Match 2: (W-comp)4-6,6-2,1-0; Match 3: (W-Self) 6-4,6-4; Match 4 (W-Comp): 6-2,6-4.

My questions concern possibilities of being DQ'd by 3 strikes rule. I don't know if I am at risk or understand the ramifications. We have 2 matches left in our team league and we are not very good (so I assume this means we won't make playoffs, right???). My first question: If I win the last two matches handily could I be DQ'd? Second question: If I am DQ'd does this negatively affect my team at all if we have a losing record anyway? Also, what excatly is a benchmark player, an average 3.5 player or a top 3.5 player?

Sorry, being new to this I just don't understand the details. Thanks for info!

1) Winning and losing the matches is meaningless, all that matters is how many games you won versus how many lost compared with your opponent's actual rating

2) Benchmark / Computer / Self Rated is meaningless. Appealed player however means they are just above your level so that may mean more. (or beating another player who you notice gets DQ'ed, Ive seen that)

Your scores are pretty mediocre and nothing really jumps out as daunting, I doubt you are even close to being able to worry about it.

I had a guy who didnt lose more then 3 games the entire season last year except for one match that he lost, and he wasnt DQ'ed. (but was bumped up in the year end ratings which is more then justifyable)

If he would of clobbered some stronger players he might of been DQ'ed. That's pretty much what it takes. (if there is some guy who never loses except for the playoffs and you kill him easily then it might create a strike, especially if it's early in the season where there isnt much to average it against)

Obviously we dont know what anyone's rating is so we cant ever be 100% sure but most DQ's Ive seen are:

1) Players clobber certain other players who already have a high rating (like I said above, including Appealees and other DQ'ed players)

2) Players are playing in the next level and doing pretty good in that as well. (if you are also playing 4.0 you could lose close matches against really successful 4.0 players and earn a strike that way)

Jaalla
04-08-2009, 07:36 AM
Thanks everyone. That's good news because I would hate to be the cause of team losing matches retrospectively and don't like the thought of sandbagging games. I was worried since I noted that the match I lost to benchmark I think is a win in the computer's eyes by total games.

Anyway, thanks for advice and I'll just enjoy the matches! It will be nice to get computer ranking going forward.

TennisND
04-08-2009, 12:20 PM
I just got DQ today after 3 matches. My score as follow:
1st game: 6-1; 6-1 (3.0 league)
2nd game: 6-2-6-2 (3.5 league)
3rd game: 5-7; 4-6 (3.0 league)

I have no clue why I got D.Q!!!

herrburgess
04-08-2009, 01:28 PM
Since there are so many good answers here I thought I'd post my question about DQ danger here instead of starting a new thread.

My situation: I am a self-rated 2.5 (rated last Spring). I played last Fall at 5.5 combos and went to States (where the team finished 2nd). My record was 4-1 (one loss was States finals 5-7, 4-6). The rest of the team all got bumped to 3.0. I stayed at 2.5 because I didn't play any qualifying matches in the Spring. I am now playing at 2.5 and playing up at 3.0. I have won all 6 of my matches at 2.5 (with quite a few 6-0 sets). I have also won all 5 of my matches at 3.0 (with one 6-0 set, one 6-1 set, and quite a few 6-2 or 6-3 sets).

I played intentionally at #3 or #2 doubles in order to avoid getting strikes, but some of the players I beat play up (and occasionally win) at 3.5.

My question: does all of this sound like I may be in danger of getting DQed at 2.5?

herrburgess
04-08-2009, 01:41 PM
P.S. I checked my rating and saw that I have no year-end rating on tennislink. Don't know what this means or how it possibly effects the situation (guess I'll have an answer by tomorrow at any rate as the season is almost over...just one match left)

TennisND
04-08-2009, 02:49 PM
Herr, I would say you have a very high possibility to be DQed like I did. Just a complaint and you will be gone for good.

Jim A
04-08-2009, 03:12 PM
ND, you probably beat a strong 3.5 and possibly lost a close match to someone who was also getting DQ'd

JavierLW
04-08-2009, 08:24 PM
Since there are so many good answers here I thought I'd post my question about DQ danger here instead of starting a new thread.

My situation: I am a self-rated 2.5 (rated last Spring). I played last Fall at 5.5 combos and went to States (where the team finished 2nd). My record was 4-1 (one loss was States finals 5-7, 4-6). The rest of the team all got bumped to 3.0. I stayed at 2.5 because I didn't play any qualifying matches in the Spring. I am now playing at 2.5 and playing up at 3.0. I have won all 6 of my matches at 2.5 (with quite a few 6-0 sets). I have also won all 5 of my matches at 3.0 (with one 6-0 set, one 6-1 set, and quite a few 6-2 or 6-3 sets).

I played intentionally at #3 or #2 doubles in order to avoid getting strikes, but some of the players I beat play up (and occasionally win) at 3.5.

My question: does all of this sound like I may be in danger of getting DQed at 2.5?

Did you get a computer rating (C) from playing combo or some sort of Mixed Exclusive Rating?

If you have a computer rating you cant be DQ'ed.

If you have a (M) rating or a (D) (dynamic) then you can.

If your eligable to get DQ'ed it sounds like you have a chance of getting DQ'ed, although they say the lower the level you are at the higher your threshold is, so it's got to be pretty high for 2.5.

JavierLW
04-08-2009, 08:29 PM
I just got DQ today after 3 matches. My score as follow:
1st game: 6-1; 6-1 (3.0 league)
2nd game: 6-2-6-2 (3.5 league)
3rd game: 5-7; 4-6 (3.0 league)

I have no clue why I got D.Q!!!

It's pretty easy and it has nothing to do with anyone complaining:

1) You must of played a successful player with a solid 3.0 rating and you spanked him 6-1, 6-1. That's strike one.

2) You played 3.5. Even if it's just some guy with an average 3.5 rating, you spanked him which generates a number in the high 3.5 range. That number get's averaged in with your first number, and obviously that's strike two since it's even higher then the first number!!!!

3) You lost a close match to someone who might be pretty strong. It may not even be high enough to get a strike under normal conditions but this "higher" 3.0 number gets averaged in with the first two numbers. (the match result from the first match, and the dynamic rating from the 2nd match) and the resulting number is again in strike range. Strike 3!!!

Clearly you are probably too good to play 3.0 anyway, so you shouldnt complain about it. Just play 3.5 and have fun, enjoy tennis.

TennisND
04-09-2009, 04:21 AM
Thank you, JavierLW. I did not complaint about it. I just want to know the reasonale and how the decision is made. It is nothing to proud playing the underdog league and beating everyone in that league.

herrburgess
04-09-2009, 05:14 AM
Did you get a computer rating (C) from playing combo or some sort of Mixed Exclusive Rating?

If you have a computer rating you cant be DQ'ed.

If you have a (M) rating or a (D) (dynamic) then you can.

If your eligable to get DQ'ed it sounds like you have a chance of getting DQ'ed, although they say the lower the level you are at the higher your threshold is, so it's got to be pretty high for 2.5.

Thanks for the info. It's very helpful. Oddly enough Tennislink shows I have no rating (when I do a drill-down search); on the Leagues page it shows as 2.5. I assume, then, that I must have been given a computer rating after my first 4 qualifying matches this Spring, and therefore have not been (and will not be) DQed. Sound like a fair assumption?

JavierLW
04-09-2009, 05:16 AM
Thanks for the info. It's very helpful. Oddly enough Tennislink shows I have no rating (when I do a drill-down search); on the Leagues page it shows as 2.5. I assume, then, that I must have been given a computer rating after my first 4 qualifying matches this Spring, and therefore have not been (and will not be) DQed. Sound like a fair assumption?

Try going to the link that says "Find a Rating" on the main page on national.usta.com .

That's your official rating and it will say if it's a computer rating or a self rating or a mixed exclusive or something.

Nellie
04-09-2009, 06:23 AM
It's pretty easy and it has nothing to do with anyone complaining:

1) You must of played a successful player with a solid 3.0 rating and you spanked him 6-1, 6-1. That's strike one.

2) You played 3.5. Even if it's just some guy with an average 3.5 rating, you spanked him which generates a number in the high 3.5 range. That number get's averaged in with your first number, and obviously that's strike two since it's even higher then the first number!!!!

3) You lost a close match to someone who might be pretty strong. It may not even be high enough to get a strike under normal conditions but this "higher" 3.0 number gets averaged in with the first two numbers. (the match result from the first match, and the dynamic rating from the 2nd match) and the resulting number is again in strike range. Strike 3!!!

Clearly you are probably too good to play 3.0 anyway, so you shouldnt complain about it. Just play 3.5 and have fun, enjoy tennis.

From what I understand, you get a strike when your dynamic number is above the acceptable range. I can see how you got a strike for the second and third matches. Since you have so few matches, your win in the second match would move your rating up to 3.5 level. I would agree that the last match, even though a loss, would not move you down enough to be below the 3.5 threshold. The headscratcher is the first win. I don't see how that could get you a strike. I guess if you played a 3.0 at the very top of the range, a crushing win would put you above the 3.0 range immeadiately,

JavierLW
04-09-2009, 06:31 AM
From what I understand, you get a strike when your dynamic number is above the acceptable range. I can see how you got a strike for the second and third matches. Since you have so few matches, your win in the second match would move your rating up to 3.5 level. I would agree that the last match, even though a loss, would not move you down enough to be below the 3.5 threshold. The headscratcher is the first win. I don't see how that could get you a strike. I guess if you played a 3.0 at the very top of the range, a crushing win would put you above the 3.0 range immeadiately,

That's probably what did it.

If there is a player who is dominating 3.0 (or maybe an appealee which would be even more obvious), and you crush them 6-1, 6-1 in the first match that's probably a strike.

Ive seen it happen with other players who've gotten DQ'ed. (they clobber some guy that normally always wins or has some other rating anomoly themselves)

herrburgess
04-09-2009, 06:35 AM
Try going to the link that says "Find a Rating" on the main page on national.usta.com .

That's your official rating and it will say if it's a computer rating or a self rating or a mixed exclusive or something.

That's where I went and the rating is simply blank. There are only a few others in my league who have blank lines there. It confused me as well. Ever heard of this?

JavierLW
04-09-2009, 06:44 AM
That's where I went and the rating is simply blank. There are only a few others in my league who have blank lines there. It confused me as well. Ever heard of this?

Ive seen that for players who dont have a rating. (players who sign up for the USTA and only play matches that have no bearing on ratings, or they dont play any matches at all)

I wasnt sure what combo league did for a rating anyway, maybe it means that it has absolutely no impact on your rating. (maybe the other players on your team were playing in other leagues besides combo so they got moved??)

If that's the case then it's like you are still self rated. (which is good for one year after you self rated yourself) So you have a better chance of getting DQ'ed since these matches count toward the dynamic rating.

(if you get DQ'ed though you should feel proud because hardly anyone is good enough at any level to actually get DQ'ed)

herrburgess
04-09-2009, 07:12 AM
Ive seen that for players who dont have a rating. (players who sign up for the USTA and only play matches that have no bearing on ratings, or they dont play any matches at all)

I wasnt sure what combo league did for a rating anyway, maybe it means that it has absolutely no impact on your rating. (maybe the other players on your team were playing in other leagues besides combo so they got moved??)

If that's the case then it's like you are still self rated. (which is good for one year after you self rated yourself) So you have a better chance of getting DQ'ed since these matches count toward the dynamic rating.

(if you get DQ'ed though you should feel proud because hardly anyone is good enough at any level to actually get DQ'ed)

Thanks again for the info. Yes, the other players played mixed so that may have factored into it. I also found out that a 0 rating means my initial self rating (which was made over a year ago) has expired. I assume a computer rating is now being generated and will come out at the next posting. Is there a chance, then, that I could get bumped mid-year to 3.0? Just wondering as we're beginning to think about 5.5 combos again...

JavierLW
04-09-2009, 09:31 AM
Thanks again for the info. Yes, the other players played mixed so that may have factored into it. I also found out that a 0 rating means my initial self rating (which was made over a year ago) has expired. I assume a computer rating is now being generated and will come out at the next posting. Is there a chance, then, that I could get bumped mid-year to 3.0? Just wondering as we're beginning to think about 5.5 combos again...

It sounds possible. No way of knowing if you will for sure or not though, you only know once it happens. (I think the odds for anyone is like 1 or 2 percent or less but it all depends on your results)

herrburgess
04-09-2009, 10:44 AM
It sounds possible. No way of knowing if you will for sure or not though, you only know once it happens. (I think the odds for anyone is like 1 or 2 percent or less but it all depends on your results)

So it's about the same chance of getting bumped between the end of Spring league and the beginning of Combos as it is of getting DQed mid-season? Sorry for all the questions, I'm really new to all this.

JavierLW
04-09-2009, 01:28 PM
So it's about the same chance of getting bumped between the end of Spring league and the beginning of Combos as it is of getting DQed mid-season? Sorry for all the questions, I'm really new to all this.

Well if you make it to Combos at least Im pretty sure you wont get DQ'ed there. (I dont think Combos contribute at all toward your rating)

If you dont get notified that you got your 3rd strike after your final match of the spring league, then you should be fine.

(when you get 3 strikes, they inform your captain and yourself,and they send you a report of your actual rating history for the year, something nice to frame and put on the wall somewhere... :-) )

herrburgess
04-11-2009, 09:02 AM
Well if you make it to Combos at least Im pretty sure you wont get DQ'ed there. (I dont think Combos contribute at all toward your rating)

If you dont get notified that you got your 3rd strike after your final match of the spring league, then you should be fine.

(when you get 3 strikes, they inform your captain and yourself,and they send you a report of your actual rating history for the year, something nice to frame and put on the wall somewhere... :-) )

Again, this is all very helpful. It has helped me narrow my question down to the following: since my initial rating expired, can I safely assume I have a dynamic rating? Is there anyone I can ask at USTA to get this information. I ask because if I somehow have a C rating I will be safe to play another 3.0 match without fear of being DQed at 2.5. If my rating is a D then I'll tell my captain, who's wanting me to play, that I shouldn't.

JavierLW
04-11-2009, 09:40 AM
Again, this is all very helpful. It has helped me narrow my question down to the following: since my initial rating expired, can I safely assume I have a dynamic rating? Is there anyone I can ask at USTA to get this information. I ask because if I somehow have a C rating I will be safe to play another 3.0 match without fear of being DQed at 2.5. If my rating is a D then I'll tell my captain, who's wanting me to play, that I shouldn't.

Im not actually totally sure why D is even a category, I just noticed it on the rules page.

Anyone who plays a match in the men's or women's league (but not combo or tri-level) realistically has a Dynamic rating (it's just your rating that is produced from your match results that may go toward getting DQ'ed or factors into your ultimate year end rating).

The weird thing is if you are playing in the spring league now, normally you'd at least have a self rating on the "find a rating" page.

It might be a good idea to ask the coordinator they might have a better idea of what is happening if it's a unique situation.

Or just play and take your chances. All sorts of bad things can happen to someone when they play tennis (they can fall down and hurt themselves, get their eye poked out by a stray tennis ball, get stung by a hornet if they are allergic to hornets...), getting DQ'ed probably isnt really any more of a threat statistically.

herrburgess
04-11-2009, 09:46 AM
Im not actually totally sure why D is even a category, I just noticed it on the rules page.

Anyone who plays a match in the men's or women's league (but not combo or tri-level) realistically has a Dynamic rating (it's just your rating that is produced from your match results that may go toward getting DQ'ed or factors into your ultimate year end rating).

The weird thing is if you are playing in the spring league now, normally you'd at least have a self rating on the "find a rating" page.

It might be a good idea to ask the coordinator they might have a better idea of what is happening if it's a unique situation.

Or just play and take your chances. All sorts of bad things can happen to someone when they play tennis (they can fall down and hurt themselves, get their eye poked out by a stray tennis ball, get stung by a hornet if they are allergic to hornets...), getting DQ'ed probably isnt really any more of a threat statistically.

Yea, I would just go out and play, but now our 2.5 team has qualified for States, and if I get DQed then the team below us goes (as we beat them 2-1 each time we played and 1 of our 2 wins each time was me).

10sjunkie
04-13-2009, 11:32 AM
herrburgess: You don't have a rating because the Combo league is not used to generate ratings. Your self-rating from last year has expired and you were able to sign up for the spring leagues before you were required to self-rate again. You will generate a computer rating at the end of the year based on your Adult League play. And yes, you are in danger of being DQ'd.

herrburgess
04-13-2009, 03:46 PM
herrburgess: You don't have a rating because the Combo league is not used to generate ratings. Your self-rating from last year has expired and you were able to sign up for the spring leagues before you were required to self-rate again. You will generate a computer rating at the end of the year based on your Adult League play. And yes, you are in danger of being DQ'd.

Hi. That's what I had assumed as well. Today, however, I talked to the league coordinator and she said basically the same thing you did regarding my rating, but claimed I am not in danger of being DQed. I wish I had a definitive answer as I have been scheduled for our last 3.0 match tomorrow and I don't know if I should ask to not be played. Ugh.

JavierLW
04-13-2009, 04:28 PM
Hi. That's what I had assumed as well. Today, however, I talked to the league coordinator and she said basically the same thing you did regarding my rating, but claimed I am not in danger of being DQed. I wish I had a definitive answer as I have been scheduled for our last 3.0 match tomorrow and I don't know if I should ask to not be played. Ugh.

Just play. The odds of getting DQ'ed for anyone is really really low.

If you do get DQ'ed, so what? Bad things happen sometimes that are a lot worse then not winning a pen and getting to pay your own way to the state capitol.

It's your captains decision ultimately anyway, not yours. If they expect that you should play and you get DQ'ed, they are responsible for that, not you. They asked you to sign up for their team and hopefully you did it because you like playing tennis, so it's silly to sit out to avoid something that rarely ever happens.