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pricey_aus
04-07-2009, 04:29 PM
I will revive this thread at the conclusion of the French Open so that I can prove to everyone that I was right!

Let the pricey_aus bashing begin!:twisted:

beckham
04-07-2009, 04:31 PM
I would love to see this and I dearly hope you are correct, however with Nadal in the mix it will be difficult.

Lionheart392
04-07-2009, 04:33 PM
I think a lot of people saying how Murray sucks on clay may be proven wrong this year seeing as he was a far inferior player during the clay season last year. But then again maybe his clay season will be no better this year. I think right now it's totally up in the air and will be very interesting to see. Regarding Roland Garros, I very much doubt he'll win and I wonder how much you honestly believe he will too... :)

wilsondude
04-07-2009, 04:40 PM
Thanks for the laugh. I think djokovic can pull it throug if he gets his mental act together.

beckham
04-07-2009, 04:45 PM
Thanks for the laugh. I think djokovic can pull it throug if he gets his mental act together.

Now thats a laugh.

jamesblakefan#1
04-07-2009, 04:46 PM
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is gonna beat Nadal at the French, at least not for the next 4 years if he stays healthy.

wilsondude
04-07-2009, 04:46 PM
See i thought so but its not like he doesnt have the skill. he just had a little slump but he won a title this year and just made a final, so it doesnt look too unrealistic.

flying24
04-07-2009, 04:48 PM
Thanks for the laugh. I think djokovic can pull it throug if he gets his mental act together.

That is an even bigger laugh than Murray doing it at this point.

cadillac303
04-07-2009, 04:48 PM
the only reason nadal would not win the french would be because he was bored and lost focus.

flying24
04-07-2009, 04:50 PM
See i thought so but its not like he doesnt have the skill. he just had a little slump but he won a title this year and just made a final, so it doesnt look too unrealistic.

Get real. Djokovic doesnt have anywhere near the game to beat Nadal on clay even at his best. He also isnt playing nearly as well as he was a year ago while Nadal is only playing even better, and even last year he couldnt beat Nadal on clay, and the only time he came close was a visibly tired Nadal in a best 2-out-of-3 match on fast clay which he still couldnt win.

deltox
04-07-2009, 04:54 PM
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is gonna beat Nadal at the French, at least not for the next 4 years if he stays healthy.

now thats a huge stretch with the upcoming talent in the field currently.

personally it hink nadal has a 60%
fed 15%
djoker 10%
Murray 10%
none of the above 5%

pricey_aus
04-07-2009, 04:55 PM
see, everyone is so confident in Nadal. But this year it is going to be different. Wether Murray plays Rafa in the semi's or final, he will beat him. He has the game and he is alot mentally tougher than last year, where he let Jonathan Eysseric take him to five sets. Sure he wont beat Nadal in the lead in tournaments, but I sense a upset in the making. I am telling you right now, that semi or final, Andy Murray will beat Nadal

julesb
04-07-2009, 04:55 PM
now thats a huge stretch with the upcoming talent in the field currently.

What up coming talent. Name one player who will be able to beat Nadal at the French in the forseeable future.

S H O W S T O P P E R !
04-07-2009, 05:02 PM
Nadal could be amputated from the knees down and still win the French Open without dropping a set.

deltox
04-07-2009, 05:04 PM
What up coming talent. Name one player who will be able to beat Nadal at the French in the forseeable future.

be patient and watch this year develop. it means nothing that i keep saying monfils name. but watch him this year, nobody has the wheels this kid has on court on any surface

rubberduckies
04-07-2009, 05:04 PM
Murray is underrated on clay, to be sure.
People who point to his lack of accomplishments or poor record on the surface don't seem to get that he didn't have accomplishments on any surface prior to his breakthrough last year.
He will definitely be a factor on clay, and it will be interesting to see how he stacks up.

That being said, there many players who have the game to beat Nadal on hardcourt. So far, nobody has demonstrated the ability to handle him on clay. I believe Murray will suffer the same fate as Fed and Djoker. They had decent confidence against Nadal before having to play him many times on clay. Murray has that confidence now, but he will likely get humbled in the coming months.

gj011
04-07-2009, 05:07 PM
now thats a huge stretch with the upcoming talent in the field currently.

personally it hink nadal has a 60%
fed 15%
djoker 10%
Murray 10%
none of the above 5%

Chances of winning RG 2009:

Nadal 98 %
Djokovic 1 %
Federer 0.6 %
Murray 0.3 %
Other 0.1 %

cadillac303
04-07-2009, 05:13 PM
Chances of winning RG 2009:

Nadal 98 %
Djokovic 1 %
Federer 0.6 %
Murray 0.3 %
Other 0.1 %

I think you're just being a little silly now, but Nadal's chances do have to be around 90% forsure.

flying24
04-07-2009, 05:16 PM
now thats a huge stretch with the upcoming talent in the field currently.

personally it hink nadal has a 60%
fed 15%
djoker 10%
Murray 10%
none of the above 5%

Those odds are ridiculous. Nadal has won the last 4 French Opens, has lost 2 matches on clay in the last 3 years I think, is now playing better than ever which sees him winning big titles on hard courts even, and is only 60%!?!?! Crazy.

Now looking at some of the others also crazy. Federer is 1-9 vs Nadal on clay lifetime, 0-4 at the French. He is currently struggling even on hard courts, and last year Nadal was far more dominant both overall on clay and at the French vs Federer than ever before. Yet he somehow has 15% chance even vs Nadal himself, let alone winning the French altogether.

Djokovic at 10%!? Djokovic is 0-5 lifetime vs Nadal on clay, 0-9 sets vs Nadal at the French. Djokovic is playing worse tennis than a year ago and Nadal only better. Djokovic does not even have close to a 10% chance to beat Nadal at the French, let alone win the French altogether with a # of guys who can beat him on clay- Federer, Ferrer, Davydenko, Nalbandian.

Murray may have improved alot but has shown nothing on clay yet to put him at 10% chance to win the French.

More realistic odds:

Nadal 95%
Federer 2%
Ferrer 1%
Djokovic 1%
the rest combined (Murray included) 1%

charliefedererer
04-07-2009, 05:17 PM
The big question about the French Open really is: Can anyone take a set off Nadal?

flying24
04-07-2009, 05:17 PM
Chances of winning RG 2009:

Nadal 98 %
Djokovic 1 %
Federer 0.6 %
Murray 0.3 %
Other 0.1 %

Hmmm those are not too bad. We actually agree on something for once. I am not a Nadal fan but the odds of him losing to anyone at this French Open are next to none.

fastdunn
04-07-2009, 05:17 PM
It is very clear Murray will improve his performance on clay season this year. His rise started from Wimbledon last year and had relatively poor results on last year's clay season. With his improved fitness and strength, he now returns lots of balls and he will do well on clay season.

By the end of Roland Garros, his ranking points might rise over 10K.

GameSampras
04-07-2009, 05:19 PM
Nadal aint losing the French for another 2 years anyways. After that who knows

Hot Sauce
04-07-2009, 05:20 PM
klol..........

Leublu tennis
04-07-2009, 05:21 PM
I will revive this thread at the conclusion of the French Open so that I can prove to everyone that I was right!

Let the pricey_aus bashing begin!:twisted:
Ha, ha, ha, and ha!

flying24
04-07-2009, 05:22 PM
Nadal aint losing the French for another 2 years anyways. After that who knows

I think that depends mostly on his body. Even in the clay court field improves Nadal is so incredible on clay now he wont lose unless his body breaks down and cause him to slow down and decline. However that could happen with his playing style and the wear and tear on his body. We will just have to wait and see.

wilsondude
04-07-2009, 05:23 PM
Get real. Djokovic doesnt have anywhere near the game to beat Nadal on clay even at his best. He also isnt playing nearly as well as he was a year ago while Nadal is only playing even better, and even last year he couldnt beat Nadal on clay, and the only time he came close was a visibly tired Nadal in a best 2-out-of-3 match on fast clay which he still couldnt win.

ya thats why they went three sets at hamburg in semis last year and a tight semi at rg

gj011
04-07-2009, 05:24 PM
Hmmm those are not too bad. We actually agree on something for once. I am not a Nadal fan but the odds of him losing to anyone at this French Open are next to none.

Nice to see that we agree finally. I am not Nadal fan too, but I think my odds are pretty accurate.

pc1
04-07-2009, 05:25 PM
Nadal is of course the overwhelming favorite. He's the biggest favorite at the French since Borg was in his prime. However I do think that if Nadal was somehow upset or injured, that Murray would have as good a chance as any of the others.

flying24
04-07-2009, 05:26 PM
ya thats why they went three sets at hamburg in semis last year and a tight semi at rg

The semi at the French wasnt tight. They had only one close set and it was still straight sets. That is not a tight match. I will confess Djokovic put out a better effort than Federer, but Federer will be embarassed by Nadal on clay from now on I think. I think Djokovic will have better matches vs Nadal on clay than Federer will, but it will be near impossible for anyone to beat Nadal, especialy at the French (more chance if ever to happen in smaller events).

Yes Federer and Djokovic both had a close match with Nadal at Hamburg which was on the fastest clay, with Nadal tired from playing something like 4 weeks in a row. Still good for both of them doing so, just saying it will be alot harder to do on French Open in best 3 of 5. Once they both got on the best 3-of-5 vs a more rested Nadal on the slower French Open clay they were both put in their places and badly outclassed, again Federer even moreso of course.

6rump
04-07-2009, 05:48 PM
LOL, are you joking or what?? i'm not a big fans of rafa, but based on what i saw him playing on the clay court there is NO reason he can't win French open 09, last time i saw him played againts Djokovich on clay for Davis cup match, and he show everybody how to play in clay court......

tomas9848
04-07-2009, 06:00 PM
Thats a pretty good guess. It is hard to predict.

tomas9848
04-07-2009, 06:01 PM
what did murray go in the french open last year.

Nadalfan89
04-07-2009, 06:26 PM
Nadal is going to win the French Open without dropping a set this year.

The-Champ
04-07-2009, 06:29 PM
I will revive this thread at the conclusion of the French Open so that I can prove to everyone that I was right!

Let the pricey_aus bashing begin!:twisted:


At least let the boy win a clay tournament before we make this ridiculous prediction.

tudwell
04-07-2009, 06:31 PM
I'll send Murray a cookie if he even makes it past the fourth round.

Lendl and Federer Fan
04-07-2009, 06:33 PM
I will revive this thread at the conclusion of the French Open so that I can prove to everyone that I was right!

Let the pricey_aus bashing begin!:twisted:


Are you willing to make a bet that if Murray doesn't win, you would shave your head like that dude?? :lol:

Josherer
04-07-2009, 06:35 PM
I will revive this thread at the conclusion of the French Open so that I can prove to everyone that I was right!

Let the pricey_aus bashing begin!:twisted:

How could you make Australians like myself look so bad by such a silly statement?

I'm dissapointed! :(

Shaolin
04-07-2009, 06:35 PM
2009 and 2010 French Opens officially belong to Nadal, unless he shows up on the court with a torn ACL, neck brace and case of mono. Even that may not stop the guy.

pricey_aus
04-07-2009, 06:41 PM
How could you make Australians like myself look so bad by such a silly statement?

I'm dissapointed! :(

Make us look bad? hahahahahahaha
It is un-australian to not go for the underdog
and 2. I am one person who is voicing there opinion. I am not making you look bad at all. You make yourself look bad by saying something like that!

VictorS.
04-07-2009, 07:15 PM
Call me old fashioned, but to me, it's extremely hard to predict a player finishing #1 at the end of the year....when they haven't even won a grand slam yet. He's choked on a couple of occasions now, & nobody is making light of this.

I'll give the guy some credit. He's definitely playing at an extremely high level right now. But Grand Slams are a totally different balgame (best of 5 sets). Let's see this guy prove himself on the big stage first.

roundiesee
04-07-2009, 07:38 PM
It's actually a very brave prediction by the OP. Unfortunately there are just too many good clay-courters around, plus Nadal appears to be invincible on this surface the last 4 years and the trend looks likely to continue....

VilasFan
04-07-2009, 07:50 PM
I don't think Murray has enough results on clay to predict he'll win the toughest of the 4 GS tournaments. Rafa is the least of his worries. I believe that there are quite a few clay-court players that could take Murray out of the French...before he even gets a shot at Nadal.

bladepdb
04-07-2009, 07:51 PM
I'll mark your words and laugh at them and laugh even more at them when Murray fails to win.

ESP#1
04-07-2009, 07:55 PM
personally it think nadal has a 90%
fed 5%
djoker 3%
Murray 1%
none of the above 1%

Fixed it for ya:)

When has the last time Nadal lost 2 sets at RR?
How many slams has he won in the last year?
How many RR has he won in the last four years?

Come on OP wake up man

bladepdb
04-07-2009, 08:00 PM
ESP, I think you need to swap Fed and Murray...Fed's mentally blown to bits right now, whereas Murray is riding a momentum train (which he might fall off by RG). But as of right now when we're predicing this, that's how it should be.

Beacon Hill
04-07-2009, 08:27 PM
Monte Carlo will tell a lot.

Ronny
04-07-2009, 09:09 PM
no way in hell murray will win the french....i mean he hasnt even won a clay tournamnet and yet ppl think he can win the french? just dumb imo...i'll be reviving this thread after murray gets knocked out...i mena ppl like djoko and tsonga and davydenko have a better chance of winning than him

Harry_Wild
04-07-2009, 09:11 PM
It hard to not pick Nadal to win another French! He is so, so solid on the burnt orange clay! It like his playground!

MichaelNadal
04-07-2009, 09:28 PM
Ferrer or Verdasco Would have Murray for lunch on clay.

sargeinaz
04-07-2009, 09:30 PM
As much as I would love that to happen (or anyone other than Nadal for that matter), Nadal will once again murder everyone at the French.

Tennis_Bum
04-07-2009, 09:41 PM
I will revive this thread at the conclusion of the French Open so that I can prove to everyone that I was right!

Let the pricey_aus bashing begin!:twisted:

You got to put a time table on it. By when will he win FO?

Tennis_Wiz
04-07-2009, 10:21 PM
Of course nadal will lose at least a set...but NO WAY ON EARTH WILL ANDY MURRAY WIN ROLAND GARROS!

jamesblakefan#1
04-07-2009, 10:32 PM
Yeah, I'd be interested in seeing Tsonga vs Rafa on clay, not that he'll win, but Murray's not the guy, and doubtful Novak's gonna beat Nadal judging by the DC result earlier this yr.

Blinkism
04-07-2009, 10:34 PM
This thread will be revived if Murray doesn't win the French Open.

I'm not saying i'm going to do it, but someone will.... And it's only fair if they rub it in your face, OP. You brought it on yourself.

Gen
04-07-2009, 11:19 PM
Don't forget to re-open this thread so that we can have a hearty laugh at "predictors" and "forecastors" who obviously know nothing about clay tennis.

Motion on clay is entirely different from hard and very diferent from grass. Nadal has this motion, he slides on both wings (other players can use only one foot for directing the slide). Murray doesn't have it. Nadal has much more top spin on his forehand than Murray. Nadal is more durable. Etc.

Murray never had good results on clay because he is technically deficient on this surface. He is competition to Nadal!!!!!!!!!!! The laugh of the year!

miyagi
04-07-2009, 11:23 PM
Murray was supposed to win USO look what happened?

Murray was favourite to win Australian look what happped?

Now you are saying he will win Roland Gaross?

Anything is possible BUT I doubt it very much.

Blinkism
04-07-2009, 11:41 PM
Murray's probably underrated on clay, but the OP is one of the few overrating him!

P.S. Best photo ever! Reminds me of when George from Seinfeld is chasing the pigeons on the boardwalk!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01379/andy-murray_1379944c.jpg

380pistol
04-07-2009, 11:42 PM
I will revive this thread at the conclusion of the French Open so that I can prove to everyone that I was right!

Let the pricey_aus bashing begin!:twisted:

Real talk...leave Tina alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean anything is possible, so I'm not saying Murray won't.... but have you heard of Rafael Nadal by any chance?? Does that name sound familiar???

Cesc Fabregas
04-07-2009, 11:43 PM
If Nadal doesn't win the French there are tons of other players that would win ahead of Murray.

Pirao
04-08-2009, 02:23 AM
I'll be sure to bump this thread after Nadal wins his 5th FO in a row, and rub it in your face, as you plan to do.

batz
04-08-2009, 02:39 AM
Murray will win the 2009 French alright. Whilst riding Shergar and being cheered from the sidelines by Elvis and Lord Lucan.

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 02:51 AM
I think a lot of people saying how Murray sucks on clay may be proven wrong this year seeing as he was a far inferior player during the clay season last year. But then again maybe his clay season will be no better this year. I think right now it's totally up in the air and will be very interesting to see. Regarding Roland Garros, I very much doubt he'll win and I wonder how much you honestly believe he will too... :)

Murray sucks on clay and grass (relative to the top dogs), so I really wish these kind of threads would go away until September. Then again, I guess its fun after each slam trophy ceremony, so carry on.

batz
04-08-2009, 02:58 AM
Murray sucks on clay and grass (relative to the top dogs), so I really wish these kind of threads would go away until September. Then again, I guess its fun after each slam trophy ceremony, so carry on.

What I don't get is that you, as a Rafa fan, must have seen the year on year improvment in Rafa's game on grass and HC, and yet the notion that anyone else might be able to improve year on year on different surfaces seems absurd to you. As with others, your assertions are based on last year's Murray as there is no evidence to suggest that this year's guy 'sucks on clay and grass'. He might well suck this year, but there is also the possibility that he might improve on those surfaces. At the moment, my money would be on the latter.

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 03:01 AM
There is no evidence to suggest Murray has improved on grass, so why make it up? Let's talk about improvement when we see it. Until then we go by last year's Wimbledon. You can't base grasscourt improvement on hardcourt improvement anyway. They are unrelated, and even if you did you would have to explain their recent hardcourt meeting which points to the most one-sided loss of their rivalry.

batz
04-08-2009, 03:16 AM
There is no evidence to suggest Murray has improved on grass, so why make it up? Let's talk about improvement when we see it. Until then we go by last year's Wimbledon. You can't base grasscourt improvement on hardcourt improvement anyway. They are unrelated, and even if you did you would have to explain their recent hardcourt meeting which points to the most one-sided loss of their rivalry.

No evidence apart from the year on year improvements in grass court tournaments you mean?

Let's just consider what you're arguing here:

A tennis player who has improved year on year in grasscourt tournaments will not continue this year on year improvment. This is despite a quantum leap in his game overall.

To repeat, despite the evidence that Murray improves year on year on grass, and despite the obvious evidence that Murray's game has moved on considerably in the last year, Murray will not continue to improve on grass.


Yep, that seems a coherent argument.

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 03:24 AM
No evidence apart from the year on year improvements in grass court tournaments you mean?

Let's just consider what you're arguing here:

A tennis player who has improved year on year in grasscourt tournaments will not continue this year on year improvment. This is despite a quantum leap in his game overall.

To repeat, despite the evidence that Murray improves year on year on grass, and despite the obvious evidence that Murray's game has moved on considerably in the last year, Murray will not continue to improve on grass.


Yep, that seems a coherent argument.

Murray hasn't improved on hardcourt since last year, so why would you say he's improved on grasscourt? He sucked at the Australian Open and he sucked a week ago v the Rafa. So where is the improvement since last year? Murray's form this year is no better than it was during the US Open last year, and Murray at the US Open last year was the same player he was at Wimbledon last year (except he did better at the US Open because it is HIS SURFACE, plus he faced a tired Nadal you surely admit). All this improvement isn't leading to any slam successes. And btw, even if you say Murray improved from 2007 Wimbledon to 2008 Wimbledon there is nothing to suggest he improves in 2009 Wimbledon. Why? Because we haven't seen 2009 Wimbledon, so you are only speaking in speculatary terms, in other words 'baseless terms'.

Telepatic
04-08-2009, 03:32 AM
Who knows, maybe Rafa gets injured lol.

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 03:35 AM
Who knows, maybe Rafa gets injured lol.

Or more likely, maybe Murray or Federer will get injured. Seeing as they've had real injuries this year, while the Rafa just has tendinitis which heals with rest.

deltox
04-08-2009, 04:03 AM
Or more likely, maybe Murray or Federer will get injured. Seeing as they've had real injuries this year, while the Rafa just has tendinitis which heals with rest.

tendonitis heals with rest??????


o hell no it doesnt. the inflamation goes down but the pain remains and is there nearly every time you have a work out.

batz
04-08-2009, 04:09 AM
Murray hasn't improved on hardcourt since last year, so why would you say he's improved on grasscourt? He sucked at the Australian Open and he sucked a week ago v the Rafa. So where is the improvement since last year? Murray's form this year is no better than it was during the US Open last year, and Murray at the US Open last year was the same player he was at Wimbledon last year (except he did better at the US Open because it is HIS SURFACE, plus he faced a tired Nadal you surely admit). All this improvement isn't leading to any slam successes. And btw, even if you say Murray improved from 2007 Wimbledon to 2008 Wimbledon there is nothing to suggest he improves in 2009 Wimbledon. Why? Because we haven't seen 2009 Wimbledon, so you are only speaking in speculatary terms, in other words 'baseless terms'.

LOL "Murray hasn't improved on hardcourts since last year". Your assertions are getting wilder and wilder.

Tell me, how did Murray do @ IW and Miami last year? And how did he do this year? But that doesn't represent improvment on hardcourt? OK.

Of course I'm speculating! But I'm speculating based on empirical data. You are also speculating, but giving the emprical data a right good ignoring to and just repeating the same old baseless tropes.

batz
04-08-2009, 04:12 AM
Or more likely, maybe Murray or Federer will get injured. Seeing as they've had real injuries this year, while the Rafa just has tendinitis which heals with rest.

So a virus is a 'real injury' in your book but tendinitis isn't?

Seriously mate, I'm quite happy to have a right good debate with anyone on here, I enjoy hearing others' views and putting forward my own. But that can only happen when people stay off the fanboy path. Your statement above is pure fanboy.

deltox
04-08-2009, 04:19 AM
So a virus is a 'real injury' in your book but tendinitis isn't?

Seriously mate, I'm quite happy to have a right good debate with anyone on here, I enjoy hearing others' views and putting forward my own. But that can only happen when people stay off the fanboy path. Your statement above is pure fanboy.

i totally agree 100000% with this statement. and its hard on these forums cause all the fanbois.

nadal
04-08-2009, 05:43 AM
So a virus is a 'real injury' in your book but tendinitis isn't?
Seriously mate, I'm quite happy to have a right good debate with anyone on here, I enjoy hearing others' views and putting forward my own. But that can only happen when people stay off the fanboy path. Your statement above is pure fanboy.

It is not virus murray has a problem in his left ankle always tied in his matches but because he is stubborn and keep exerting on every point and maybe on useless points it will affect him on the long run

batz
04-08-2009, 05:46 AM
It is not virus murray has a problem in his left ankle always tied in his matches but because he is stubborn and keep exerting on every point and maybe on useless points it will affect him on the long run


His left ankle has been strapped since June 2005 when he turned it during Queens. Look upon it like Rafa's knee strappings if it helps you get your head round it.

Spider
04-08-2009, 06:07 AM
I am not convinced yet that he can win the RG. I think we'll find at Monte Carlo and Rome, and if he wins both these events, then I will put him as the joint favorite to win RG this year (along with Nadal).

I am pretty sure he will school fed and expose his weak game as usual. Can he beat Nadal on clay? That is one of the toughest challenges in the history of this sport.

heninfan99
04-08-2009, 06:13 AM
I'd love to see Ferrer take the French. Ferrer has worked damned hard to be an elite player and has made the FO quater-finals twice. However, if I were betting I would go for the obvious choice, Nadal.

Though wouldn't it be great for tennis if Federer won?

clayrules
04-08-2009, 06:20 AM
There are many better players than him on clay, period.
His defense is not as effective on clay. See what Monaco and Massu did to him on a HARDCOURT, Murray would not turn things around on CLAY like he did on a hardcourt. If Murray runs into one of those on-fire south american clay courters he will be toast.
Too many players can beat Murray on clay. Only if his draw is a blessing he stands a chance of getting past the 4th round at Roland Garros.

cknobman
04-08-2009, 06:22 AM
I hope your right.

Nadal_Freak
04-08-2009, 06:23 AM
Though wouldn't it be great for tennis if Federer won?
Not really. The weaker player wins. Good thing reality says it won't happen.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 06:24 AM
Murray was supposed to win USO look what happened?

Murray was favourite to win Australian look what happped?

Now you are saying he will win Roland Gaross?

Anything is possible BUT I doubt it very much.

Murray was not the favourite to win the US Open. You're making that up.

He was ill at the Australian Open. Does anyone actually follow tennis news or do they just ignore the facts to support a conclusion?

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 06:26 AM
You guys are aware I take it that Venus and Serena Williams have had wrist tendinitis literally their whole careers.....thus the regular time-off they've been taking every year.

And Michael Jordan had knee tendinitis from 1991 till 2003 yet at age 40 was the only player in Washington Wizards to play all 82 games (and 37 minutes per game). A year earlier he had his knee drained a rumored 5 times.

Tendinitis doesn't stop a player's career the way a back injury does.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 06:27 AM
There is no evidence to suggest Murray has improved on grass, so why make it up? Let's talk about improvement when we see it. Until then we go by last year's Wimbledon. You can't base grasscourt improvement on hardcourt improvement anyway. They are unrelated, and even if you did you would have to explain their recent hardcourt meeting which points to the most one-sided loss of their rivalry.

The match was played in gale force winds. If you really think it's relevant to future matchups, you need your head checked. Idiot.

As far as the topic goes, I hope you're right. The fact is that there's practically no chance of it happening.

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 06:29 AM
^^^ See the Federer v Agassi US Open 5-setter? Worse conditions than Murray v the Rafa. Idiot?

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 06:36 AM
^^^ See the Federer v Agassi US Open 5-setter? Worse conditions than Murray v the Rafa. Idiot?

So what if it was worse conditions? I'm not sure what that proves. Any match in 40mph winds is not relevant to future matchups that will be played in much more common conditions. All that match proved is that Nadal can play in high winds much better than Murray.

There is only one way to beat Nadal: be aggressive. He is never going to beat himself. He will outpush or outgrind anyone. Murray's usual gameplan to beat Nadal is to go all out attack. He couldn't do that in those conditions and he was rolling in his first serve at under 100mph so that he wouldn't have to hit many second serves. If you really want to delude yourself into thinking that Nadal would hammer Murray 6-1, 6-2 in normal conditions, be my guest. He couldn't even do that on clay last year when Murray was a shadow of the player he is now.

Nadal_Freak
04-08-2009, 06:37 AM
So what if it was worse conditions? I'm not sure what that proves. Any match in 40mph winds is not relevant to future matchups that will be played in much more common conditions. All that match proved is that Nadal can play in high winds much better than Murray.

There is only one way to beat Nadal: be aggressive. He is never going to beat himself. He will outpush or outgrind anyone. Murray's usual gameplan to beat Nadal is to go all out attack. He couldn't do that in those conditions and he was rolling in his first serve at under 100mph so that he wouldn't have to hit many second serves. If you really want to delude yourself into thinking that Nadal would hammer Murray 6-1, 6-2 in normal conditions, be my guest. He couldn't even do that on clay last year when Murray was a shadow of the player he is now.
Hamburg is Nadal's least favorite clay tournament. If they play at Roland Garros, Murray will be embarrassed. :D

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 06:38 AM
So what if its worse conditions? Let me spell it out:
Straight
Sets
Rafa
US 09

batz
04-08-2009, 06:38 AM
There are many better players than him on clay, period.
His defense is not as effective on clay. See what Monaco and Massu did to him on a HARDCOURT, Murray would not turn things around on CLAY like he did on a hardcourt. If Murray runs into one of those on-fire south american clay courters he will be toast.
Too many players can beat Murray on clay. Only if his draw is a blessing he stands a chance of getting past the 4th round at Roland Garros.


Last season Murray beat Essyric, Volandri, Del Potro, Lopez, Acasuso, Tursunov and Simon on clay.

He lost to Ancic, Djokovic, Nadal, Almagro and Wawrinka.

He's a far superior player now.

I think Murray's weakness on clay is over-stated. I know it's a much lower level, but he did make finals of a couple of clay challengers and the semis of RG juniors, it's not as if he's never won a match on clay.

The way some of you go on here, anyone would think Murray played left-handed in clay matches, whilst blindfolded and standing on one foot.

We'll see what happens over the next few weeks.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 06:40 AM
So what if its worse conditions? Let me spell it out:
Straight
Sets
Rafa
US 09

So you're predicting that Nadal will routine Murray at the US Open, despite being taken to school at the same event last year?

deltox
04-08-2009, 06:42 AM
So you're predicting that Nadal will routine Murray at the US Open, despite being taken to school at the same event last year?

its not just murray on hards either, many many players will give him hell on hcs

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 06:42 AM
Hamburg is Nadal's least favorite clay tournament. If they play at Roland Garros, Murray will be embarrassed. :D

You're probably right. My point is that the IW final is not a good match to use as a guide for how their next HC meeting will go.

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 06:42 AM
^^ Are you in denial about the Rafa's physical condition after the Olympics last year? Do you think he'll go out of his way to be worn out when hunting for the Calender Year Grand Slam? Expect a long rest for the Rafa after Wimbledon. And you seriously think Murray 'took him to school' last year at the US? 1st set tie-breaker, the Rafa won a set, and the Rafa was up a break in the 4th set. Doesn't look too one-sided.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 06:42 AM
its not just murray on hards either, many many players will give him hell on hcs

Many players will give Nadal hell on HCs?

Nadal_Freak
04-08-2009, 06:43 AM
You're probably right. My point is that the IW final is not a good match to use as a guide for how their next HC meeting will go.
Fair enough. I can agree to that considering IW is probably the slowest hardcourt out there.

deltox
04-08-2009, 06:44 AM
Many players will give Nadal hell on HCs?

yes, i think my statement was clear.

in miami 3 people gave him a fight, in IW DP and Roddick both fought him hard last year at rotterdam he only beat one person the whole tourney in straight sets.

i see predictions from straight sets at the uso to calendar slam back to back. the truth is he owns clay, is strong on grass and hardcourts. but strong does not ever garauntee victory. others are strong on hardcourts as well.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 06:44 AM
^^ Are you in denial about the Rafa's physical condition after the Olympics last year? Do you think he'll go out of his way to be worn out when hunting for the Calender Year Grand Slam?

No, I'm not in denial. It's just a lame excuse that's trotted out every time Nadal loses. I don't buy it.

It's weird. For such a fit, durable player, Rafa always seems to be tired. Maybe he should work on his cardio? :)

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 06:44 AM
yes, i think my statement was clear.

I was just making sure. I didn't quite understand.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 06:45 AM
Fair enough. I can agree to that considering IW is probably the slowest hardcourt out there.

I was more referring to the wind than anything else.

batz
04-08-2009, 06:46 AM
^^ Are you in denial about the Rafa's physical condition after the Olympics last year? Do you think he'll go out of his way to be worn out when hunting for the Calender Year Grand Slam? No and No. Expect a long rest for the Rafa after Wimbledon.

Ah, we get it. When Rafa loses there's a mitigating factor, but when Rafa wins, it's because he was better than the other guy.

Serious question - what do you think Rafa would make of you dissing Murray's victory over him at the USO? Think he would agree with you?

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 06:48 AM
Ah, we get it. When Rafa loses there's a mitigating factor, but when Rafa wins, it's because he was better than the other guy.

Serious question - what do you think Rafa would make of you dissing Murray's victory over him at the USO? Think he would agree with you?

Yes because the Rafa already stated in press conferences how exhausted he was after the Olympics, and anyone who watched the US Open would say the same. After the first 5 rounds it was being said how sluggish the Rafa was playing, not just after the Murray match. Wake up to reality, or admit that you don't follow tennis, cos no tennis fan would have missed these facts.

Nadal_Freak
04-08-2009, 06:48 AM
I was more referring to the wind than anything else.
Yes both the slowness of the court and the wind effecting Murray's serve made a difference. I've seen Nadal bothered by the wind before but he was very comfortable that day due to visually noticing Murray's struggles in it. I still think Nadal would've beaten Murray in Indian Wells without the wind as long as they play in the middle of the day where the sun helps Nadal's shots kick up.

deltox
04-08-2009, 06:49 AM
Yes because the Rafa already stated in press conferences how exhausted he was after the Olympics, and anyone who watched the US Open would say the same. After the first 5 rounds it was being said how sluggish the Rafa was playing, not just after the Murray match. Wake up to reality, or admit that you don't follow tennis, cos no tennis fan would have missed these facts.

exhaustion is no reason for being defeated in sports. thats such a cop out.

deltox
04-08-2009, 06:50 AM
I was just making sure. I didn't quite understand.

o my bad, thought i sensed sarcasm. yes my true feelings are that nadal will not be a god on the HCs this year. he wins plenty this year but some might as well say he will win all he plays. its hard to distinguish between fanboi and serious remarks when speaking of nadal.

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 06:50 AM
Call it a cop out, but Murray was playing a worn-out Rafa, and you can count on the schedule being very different this year with history on the line, plus no Olympics. Just saying, Murray will have to beat a full strength Rafa. Keep your sissy attitude if you want, but I'm stating the facts, no excuses.

deltox
04-08-2009, 06:52 AM
Call it a cop out, but Murray was playing a worn-out Rafa, and you can count on the schedule being very different this year with history on the line, plus no Olympics. Just saying, Murray will have to beat a full strength Rafa. Keep your sissy attitude if you want, but I'm stating the facts, no excuses.

the facts? the fact is professional athletes should NEVER EVER EVER use exhaustion as an excuse for defeat, ever.

should i call the whammmbulance? personal attacks mean nothing to me child. ill keep this thread on my favorites so everytime murray does whoop on rafa and yes it will happen this year and vice versa i can remind you time and time again he isnt god, just a great tennis player, but human nonetheless.

Nadal_Freak
04-08-2009, 06:56 AM
Call it a cop out, but Murray was playing a worn-out Rafa, and you can count on the schedule being very different this year with history on the line, plus no Olympics. Just saying, Murray will have to beat a full strength Rafa. Keep your sissy attitude if you want, but I'm stating the facts, no excuses.
Nadal usually plays Stuttgart instead. Not nearly as stressful as the Olympics. Still it will wear him down. Don't know why he does this to himself. :(

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 06:58 AM
then the reality is that he himself made a choice to overexert himself during the season. which means he made a mistake by playing any tournament exhaustion has set in or to many tourneys previous. there is no way around it, its not a broken bone or the flu, its his fault he was tired. period. thus the results of the match where he was exhausted also lay directly on his shoulders. he would not do anything differently, why cant you come to the same acceptance rafa himself has and understand he made a choice and stands behind it asking for no excuses.. why do you make excuses for him when he doesnt himself?

It wasn't a mistake, it was a GOLD MEDAL. Gold Medal was more important than the US Open, but not this year :D

And I'm not making excuses, I'm answering the question of why I think Rafa will beat Murray comfortably this year at the Us Open.

deltox
04-08-2009, 06:59 AM
It wasn't a mistake, it was a GOLD MEDAL. Gold Medal was more important than the US Open, but not this year :D

right, i agree, so he made that decision as well. so dont make excuses for that decision.

swedechris
04-08-2009, 07:01 AM
Stepanek or Safin will be Andys major threats

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 07:02 AM
Let's see, he has knee tendinitis, it requires rest, it is especially effected by hardcourts, like at the Olympics and the American summer season. Is this a lame excuse? Its reality.

Murray has a bipartite patella, which often becomes inflamed. What's your point?

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 07:06 AM
Hang with him? It was a fairly comprehensive victory in the end. Murray will beat Nadal sometimes and Nadal will beat Murray sometimes. You're coming across as a delusional nuthugger by persisting with this nonsense.

Comprehensively? Tie-break 1st set, Rafa takes a set and is up a break in the 4th set? Doesn't look too comprehensive to me. Give the Rafa his strength and you aren't looking at the same matchup. 6-1 6-2 is not an abberation....its a preview.

lordmanji
04-08-2009, 07:06 AM
murray is unproven at the majors. he shouldve gotten past verdasco at the ao but didnt. lost to fed at the us though hes dominated him after that. he will only win a major if he plays an opponent in the final he can beat with his b game.

deltox
04-08-2009, 07:08 AM
Comprehensively? Tie-break 1st set, Rafa takes a set and is up a break in the 4th set? Doesn't look too comprehensive to me. Give the Rafa his strength and you aren't looking at the same matchup. 6-1 6-2 is not an abberation....its a preview.

your posts become less and less meaningful about any topic the more you keep up this delusional behavior. go to atptennis.com and look at your boys hardcourt records. he does NOT do as well on them as you hope he will.

look at teh number of times lower ranked players pushed him to max sets or TBs. get your mind right, like i said, nadal is a great GREAT player, but he lacks the ability to walk on water whether you like it or not.

batz
04-08-2009, 07:11 AM
murray is unproven at the majors. he shouldve gotten past verdasco at the ao but didnt. lost to fed at the us though hes dominated him after that. he will only win a major if he plays an opponent in the final he can beat with his b game.


So Murray will always play his B game if he makes a slam final? OK.

Any chance of giving me saturday's lottery numbers? You clearly have a fully functional crystal ball that allows you to make such definitive statements.

deltox
04-08-2009, 07:11 AM
murray is unproven at the majors. he shouldve gotten past verdasco at the ao but didnt. lost to fed at the us though hes dominated him after that. he will only win a major if he plays an opponent in the final he can beat with his b game.

i semi agree, this could be his breakout year much like last year was nadals.

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 07:11 AM
your posts become less and less meaningful about any topic the more you keep up this delusional behavior. go to atptennis.com and look at your boys hardcourt records. he does NOT do as well on them as you hope he will.

All the Rafa has to do is beat the slamless Murray and the struggling Federer. If the Rafa isn't good on hardcourts then those guys are worse. I saw Murray in the US Open Final, and at the Aust Open, and he isn't good enough to reach the Rafa, he is weak mentally, so is Del Potro, so are all the so called threats.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 07:11 AM
Comprehensively? Tie-break 1st set, Rafa takes a set and is up a break in the 4th set? Doesn't look too comprehensive to me. Give the Rafa his strength and you aren't looking at the same matchup. 6-1 6-2 is not an abberation....its a preview.

Did you even watch the match? The first set was 6-2, not a tiebreak. Murray had around 10 breakpoints in the second set and couldn't convert. Nadal failed to take Murray even to deuce on his serve in that set. Murray eventually won the tiebreak.

3rd set, Murray hits 4 unforced errors to hand Nadal the break. Trademake loss of concentration. Rain delay. They come back the next day and Nadal serves out the set. Murray has 7 break points in the third game of the 4th set and fails to convert. Again tosses in 4 UEs to hand Nadal the break, clearly thinking about his missed chances. Murray wins 5 of the next six games to win the match.

It was fairly comprehensive.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 07:13 AM
All the Rafa has to do is beat the slamless Murray and the struggling Federer. If the Rafa isn't good on hardcourts then those guys are worse. I saw Murray in the US Open Final, and at the Aust Open, and he isn't good enough to reach the Rafa, he is weak mentally, so is Del Potro, so are all the so called threats.

You're beyond reason. You give the decent Nadal fans on here a bad name.

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 07:13 AM
2nd set was a tie-break. 3rd set Nadal won, 4th set Nadal was up a break. No easy match for Murray.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 07:15 AM
2nd set was a tie-break. 3rd set Nadal won, 4th set Nadal was up a break.

That's what I just said, genius. Your original post did not say that.

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 07:18 AM
I didn't disagree with the first two.

I disagree with the last one. You think Murray is mentally weak? That just proves that you're clueless.

Where was he in the US Open Final? He can beat Federer every time except for he only match that matters. I saw the match, he played like he was scared as hell. He was a disappointment to say the least, he played scared and its the reason why a lot of people don't think he's on Federer/Nadal's level.

miyagi
04-08-2009, 07:21 AM
Murray was not the favourite to win the US Open. You're making that up.

He was ill at the Australian Open. Does anyone actually follow tennis news or do they just ignore the facts to support a conclusion?

Re-read what I said he was supposed to win I did not mention favourite when I mentioned USO!

I dont believe he was ill he showed no signs of it and just got beat fair and square!! Where was his illness when he was leading in that match?

Besides none of that makes a bit of difference, I still think he wont win RG.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 07:22 AM
Where was he in the US Open Final? He can beat Federer every time except for he only match that matters. I saw the match, he played like he was scared as hell. He was a disappointment to say the least, he played scared and its the reason why a lot of people don't think he's on Federer/Nadal's level.

Better players than Murray have lost in their first slam final. It's ridiculous to say that Murray is mentally weak because he lost in the US Open final. Firstly, Federer played out of his mind and Murray played a horrible match. He lost. It happens.

Is Nadal mentally weak for getting routined by Tsonga?

batz
04-08-2009, 07:25 AM
Re-read what I said he was supposed to win I did not mention favourite when I mentioned USO!

I dont believe he was ill he showed no signs of it and just got beat fair and square!! Where was his illness when he was leading in that match?

Besides none of that makes a bit of difference, I still think he wont win RG.

You know the big cold sore (I think Americans might call them cooties?) sticking out of his face in the matches v Melzer and Verdasco? That might be the giveaway.

That said, Verdasco won fair and square, no excuses from me.

Only a bit of a mentalist or an uber-fanboy thinks Murray will win RG:)

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 07:26 AM
Re-read what I said he was supposed to win I did not mention favourite when I mentioned USO!

I dont believe he was ill he showed no signs of it and just got beat fair and square!! Where was his illness when he was leading in that match?

Besides none of that makes a bit of difference, I still think he wont win RG.

He was ill. It was reported before the match. He had been ill since the Melzer match. Maybe you missed the massive cold sore on his face? Here, I'll even give you a link.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/sport/tennis/australian-open/murray-out-of-sick-bed-and-still-on-course/2009/01/25/1232818249302.html

IF ANYTHING is to thwart Andy Murray's chances of reaching his second successive grand slam final, then most suppose it will be the muscular arm of Rafael Nadal, who he is seeded to meet in Friday's semi-finals.

Having defeated Austria's Jurgen Melzer 7-5, 6-0, 6-3 in the third round, Murray's record against left-handers is 21 victories and five defeats. And all those losses have been against Nadal.

The one unpredictable element is injury or illness, and Murray revealed after the Melzer match that he had not been well.

"I was sick the last two days so I've spent a lot of time in bed after beating Marcel Granollers on Thursday. I was on a lot of medication and stuff.

"I didn't really do a whole lot on Friday, but I was always going to play regardless of how I was feeling," Murray said. "I didn't feel terrible but I knew that I was going to have to make sure that I didn't do a whole lot and take all the medication I could.

I had a sore throat, sore head and just generally didn't feel great. I just needed to relax, stay in bed."

Now he hopes he can concentrate entirely on his tennis. Murray won his last match against Nadal in the semi-finals of the US Open, a victory that cemented the Scot's belief that he could compete with all the leading players, something Melzer underlined. "In the second set, Andy was playing perfect tennis. You couldn't play better than that. If you get down he can make you look really bad. For me the top three players in the world are now Roger Federer, Nadal and Andy," Melzer said.

Who said Murray was supposed to win the US Open? He had just lost in the first round of the Olympics and had been taken to 5 sets by Melzer.

I don't think he'll win RG either, but that isn't relevant to what you were saying.

Rob Johnson
04-08-2009, 07:28 AM
The big question about the French Open really is: Can anyone take a set off Nadal?

Questions like these make me think Nadal winning isn't as foregone as people would like to think.

In any sport, when it seems foregone that a team or a player is going to win a championship, they wind up getting beat.

I agree with making Nadal the odds on favorite, but to say he has a 95% chance of winning is a bit insane.

batz
04-08-2009, 07:28 AM
US Open Final lost in Straight Sets, and if you watched it Federer looked awful in the 2nd set, making numerous unforced errors. Easy set for Murray if he was strong enough.

Nadal being routed by Tsonga was no choke, and you know that. And Nadal made the tactical adjustments and got on top of Tsonga last year.


Just like Murray did with Roger post the USO, no?

Cyan
04-08-2009, 07:32 AM
To the OP: that is some primo weed you are smoking dude!

As for Murray, have you noticed everytime he loses his fans come up with excuses. At the AO where he was the overwhelming fave to win according to the bookies and the fans, he lost to Verdasco because of the flu! Then at IW it was because of the wind! When he loses at the FO, Wimbledon and even at the USO, I wonder what excuses his fans will come up with? You can bet it will be because of "something" and not because the opponent played better and wanted the win more! :rolleyes:

deltox
04-08-2009, 07:33 AM
To the OP: that is some primo weed you are smoking dude!

As for Murray, have you noticed everytime he loses his fans come up with excuses. At the AO where he was the overwhelming fave to win according to the bookies and the fans, he lost to Verdasco because of the flu! Then at IW it was because of the wind! When he loses at the FO, Wimbledon and even at the USO, I wonder what excuses his fans will come up with? You can bet it will be because of "something" and not because the opponent played better and wanted the win more! :rolleyes:

although i agree murray cant win FO, i still see the same applied to nadal by his fans you speak of.

Cyan
04-08-2009, 07:34 AM
Maybe you forgot, but in the second set Murray should have been up a break. Federer hit a ball out on BP and the call never came. That didn't help.

Sorry, but your reasoning is inconsistent. You said that Murray is mentally weak for losing to Federer in straight sets in grand slams. I said that Nadal must also be mentally weak for losing to Tsonga in straight sets. Now you're saying that Nadal made adjustments and got on top of Tsonga. Wouldn't that reasoning also apply to Myurray, since he has beaten Federer 4 times since the USO final?

Nadal won his first slam final! No choking there. He also beat Fed at the 2005 FO SF when Fed was a God and Rafa an 18 year old, no choking there either!

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 07:34 AM
To the OP: that is some primo weed you are smoking dude!

As for Murray, have you noticed everytime he loses his fans come up with excuses. At the AO where he was the overwhelming fave to win according to the bookies and the fans, he lost to Verdasco because of the flu! Then at IW it was because of the wind! When he loses at the FO, Wimbledon and even at the USO, I wonder what excuses his fans will come up with? You can bet it will be because of "something" and not because the opponent played better and wanted the win more! :rolleyes:

It wasn't the flu. It was suspected of being mono. How often do you get the flu and have the doctors suspect that you have mono?

jamesblakefan#1
04-08-2009, 07:37 AM
murray is unproven at the majors. he shouldve gotten past verdasco at the ao but didnt. lost to fed at the us though hes dominated him after that. he will only win a major if he plays an opponent in the final he can beat with his b game.

I guess finals of the US Open and Quarters at Wimbledon and Australia isn't enough proof he's good, huh?
But the truth is, none of us can say for sure how far Murray will go at the French. If he plays agressive as he has on HC, he may be a threat, not to win, but the finals.
But if he plays his old tentative style, he may indeed go out early, say in the Rof16 or Qtrs.

Cyan
04-08-2009, 07:37 AM
Murray better win the USO this year. After all his fans say he is the HC King and God then he should win all the slams on HC!

Cyan
04-08-2009, 07:43 AM
What was the excuse for Toronto? Rafa beat Murray in straights there. The following week Murray won Cincy.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 07:44 AM
What was the excuse for Toronto? Rafa beat Murray in straights there. The following week Murray won Cincy.

There was no excuse. Nadal beat Murray because he was the better player on the day.

Nadal_Freak
04-08-2009, 07:45 AM
What was the excuse for Toronto? Rafa beat Murray in straights there. The following week Murray won Cincy.
I know what it is. Murray is not the player in Toronto that he is now.

miyagi
04-08-2009, 07:49 AM
You know the big cold sore (I think Americans might call them cooties?) sticking out of his face in the matches v Melzer and Verdasco? That might be the giveaway.

That said, Verdasco won fair and square, no excuses from me.

Only a bit of a mentalist or an uber-fanboy thinks Murray will win RG:)

ok then...I wouldnt have thought that would have affected his play that much but hey who knows!

Either way Murray is a good player but no way he beats Rafa on the red stuff NO WAY!!

batz
04-08-2009, 07:49 AM
There was no excuse. Nadal beat Murray because he was the better player on the day.

Can I second this. I'd also like to confirm that Murray has no excuses for the other 5 losses to Nadal either.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 07:51 AM
Can I second this. I'd also like to confirm that Murray has no excuses for the other 5 losses to Nadal either.

I'd take slight issue with one of those losses. I really do think the wind in IW completely stacked the deck. Murray simply couldn't be aggressive. There was only going to be one winner.

Nadal may still have won, but the wind ruined the match as a contest. If it's a game of who can keep the ball in play the longest, Nadal will win every time.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 07:52 AM
I'm waiting for Clydeys reply to why Murray lost to Nadal at Toronto but then won Cincy the following week.

Edit: just read your reply.

The only loss to Nadal I'd even attempt to make an excuse for is the IW final. I said before the match, when I was watching the women's final, that Murray didn't stand a chance.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 07:55 AM
Exactly, and if you saw Agassi v Federer at the US Open quarter-finals you'd realise how windy it gets there, it was worse than the conditions at Nadal v Murray, way worse. So before you think Murray can beat Nadal this year at the US Open, consider him losing in straight sets, because all it takes is windy conditions.

That's irrelevant. Any match played in those conditions is not relevant to future matchups played in more common conditions.

deltox
04-08-2009, 07:59 AM
Exactly, and if you saw Agassi v Federer at the US Open quarter-finals you'd realise how windy it gets there, it was worse than the conditions at Nadal v Murray, way worse. So before you think Murray can beat Nadal this year at the US Open, consider him losing in straight sets, because all it takes is windy conditions.

i have been searching google, ask.com, yahoo and beyond and cannot find a windier match ever on record in atp than indian wells. the wta boasts a match played in 35 mph gusts as their record but cannot find a definitive record for the windiest event or slam.

THERAFA
04-08-2009, 08:02 AM
That's irrelevant. Any match played in those conditions is not relevant to future matchups played in more common conditions.

The point is Murray can't play in windy conditions. I can't think of a worse flaw to have than that, because these conditions are very common in New York. It is unfortunate for Murray, because the US Open is his best surface.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 08:04 AM
The point is Murray can't play in windy conditions. I can't think of a worse flaw to have than that, because these conditions are very common in New York. It is unfortunate for Murray, because the US Open is his best surface.

He can play in windy conditions. He just can't beat Nadal in 40mph winds. He beat Nadal at the US Open and it was windy. 40mph winds that prevent him from being aggressive gives him no chance, though.

Nadal_Freak
04-08-2009, 08:04 AM
The point is Murray can't play in windy conditions. I can't think of a worse flaw to have than that, because these conditions are very common in New York. It is unfortunate for Murray, because the US Open is his best surface.
Yeah I remember it being windy in his match with Nadal. Funny it didn't bother Murray in that match. Must be the surface speed. That seems like the most logic idea to me.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 08:06 AM
Yeah I remember it being windy in his match with Nadal. Funny it didn't bother Murray in that match. Must be the surface speed. That seems like the most logic idea to me.

Yeah, but there's wind and then there's gale force winds. The wind in IW was much worse than anything they played in at the USO that year.

NamRanger
04-08-2009, 08:07 AM
He can play in windy conditions. He just can't beat Nadal in 40mph winds. He beat Nadal at the US Open and it was windy. 40mph winds that prevent him from being aggressive gives him no chance, though.


Wind actually affects Nadal more than it does Murray. Murray hits flatter strokes, with a flatter trajectory. This is the same reason why Federer struggled against Agassi at the USO 04 QF; Agassi simply hits cleaner. Murray does hit much cleaner than Nadal, and wind is really no excuse, since both players have to deal with it.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 08:09 AM
Wind actually affects Nadal more than it does Murray. Murray hits flatter strokes, with a flatter trajectory. This is the same reason why Federer struggled against Agassi at the USO 04 QF; Agassi simply hits cleaner. Murray does hit much cleaner than Nadal, and wind is really no excuse, since both players have to deal with it.

Firstly, Nadal hits a much heavier ball. That works against the wind. Secondly it's not about their strokes. It's about Murray's inability to execute his aggressive gameplan against Nadal. He was forced into a pushing contest with Nadal and was always going to lose. Nadal could play his normal match against Murray. Murray couldn't execute the gameplan he usually adopts against Nadal.

NamRanger
04-08-2009, 08:12 AM
Firstly, Nadal hits a much heavier ball. That works against the wind. Secondly it's not about their strokes. It's about Murray's inability to execute his aggressive gameplan against Nadal. He was forced into a pushing contest with Nadal and was always going to lose. Nadal could play his normal match against Murray. Murray couldn't execute the gameplan he usually adopts against Nadal.


Nadal hits a loopier ball with topspin, which does bring the ball down quite abit. However, the wind also affects his ability to time his shots also. It's not like they put a hurricane over Murray's head and a pretty sun over Nadal; both players had to deal with it, and Murray simply did not deal with it well enough.

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 08:15 AM
Nadal hits a loopier ball with topspin, which does bring the ball down quite abit. However, the wind also affects his ability to time his shots also. It's not like they put a hurricane over Murray's head and a pretty sun over Nadal; both players had to deal with it, and Murray simply did not deal with it well enough.

Like I said, Murray couldn't execute his gameplan. He had to hope Nadal would beat himself by making errors, which he never does.

That said, Nadal obviously did handle the conditions much better. However, I don't think it's relevant to a match that is played in normal conditions. This match will be relevant should they ever play in such high winds again, but the chances are they won't meet under those conditions.

Nadal_Freak
04-08-2009, 08:26 AM
I agree with Clydey2times. Conditions gotta be better for Murray to have more success against Nadal. Indoors are perfectly suited for Murray.

CocaCola
04-08-2009, 08:32 AM
Mark my words, Andy Murray will not reach the quarters at 2009 French Open...

Cesc Fabregas
04-08-2009, 09:03 AM
Last season Murray beat Essyric, Volandri, Del Potro, Lopez, Acasuso, Tursunov and Simon on clay.
He lost to Ancic, Djokovic, Nadal, Almagro and Wawrinka.

He's a far superior player now.

I think Murray's weakness on clay is over-stated. I know it's a much lower level, but he did make finals of a couple of clay challengers and the semis of RG juniors, it's not as if he's never won a match on clay.

The way some of you go on here, anyone would think Murray played left-handed in clay matches, whilst blindfolded and standing on one foot.

We'll see what happens over the next few weeks.


All those you listed are poor claycourters in fact they are hardcourt specialists.

Lotto
04-08-2009, 09:07 AM
Yeah, Andy Murray's name will be on the trophy this year....IF Rafael Nadal changed his name to Andy Murray.

Cyan
04-08-2009, 09:13 AM
I agree with Clydey2times. Conditions gotta be better for Murray to have more success against Nadal. Indoors are perfectly suited for Murray.

Most of Murray's titles have been indoors for a reason.....

batz
04-08-2009, 09:14 AM
All those you listed are poor claycourters in fact they are hardcourt specialists.

Where did I express a view on their competence on clay? (although Volandri must be a lucky hardcourt specialist to have beaten Roger on clay).

Sephiroth619
04-08-2009, 09:14 AM
I gotta agree with the OP on this one. I have money staked on it too with my buddies. I'm betting he won't make it to the QF.

Cyan
04-08-2009, 09:16 AM
Of the 11 tournaments Murray has won , SEVEN were indoors...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_murray

batz
04-08-2009, 09:16 AM
Most of Murray's titles have been indoors for a reason.....

Yep, which is why a wet Wimbledon will be such an advantage to Murray.

deltox
04-08-2009, 09:18 AM
the quarters in my view will look like this

nadal
fed
jdp
verdasco
simon
djoker
monfils
murray


the semis
nada
fed
monfils
verdasco

finals
nadal
monfils

champ
nadal

well thats how i see it unfolding if the draws hold up near their current rankings

notice i left roddick off the list even though ill be pulling for ihm to reach the QF which is highly unlikely

Cesc Fabregas
04-08-2009, 09:20 AM
Yep, which is why a wet Wimbledon will be such an advantage to Murray.

Imo its a joke that they have put a roof on Wimbledon thats one of the great things about Wimbledon having to deal with the rain delays.

batz
04-08-2009, 09:21 AM
Imo its a joke that they have put a roof on Wimbledon thats one of the great things about Wimbledon having to deal with the rain delays.

To be fair Cesc, you hate anything that might lead to something positive for Andy Murray.

And of course, rain delays are just great for people who shell out money for tickets, for TV and sponsors. They love it.

Cesc Fabregas
04-08-2009, 09:28 AM
To be fair Cesc, you hate anything that might lead to something positive for Andy Murray.

And of course, rain delays are just great for people who shell out money for tickets, for TV and sponsors. They love it.

We its a grass tournement not indoor it should be played ONLY in outdoor conditions.

Cyan
04-08-2009, 09:33 AM
Yep, which is why a wet Wimbledon will be such an advantage to Murray.

Grass and HC/carpet are not the same....

batz
04-08-2009, 09:36 AM
We its a grass tournement not indoor it should be played ONLY in outdoor conditions.

OK Cesc, whatever you say mate. Like I said, anything that's good for Murray is bad for you. I understand how much the thought of Murray playing wimbledon indoors frightens you. :lol:

Cyan
04-08-2009, 09:36 AM
Imo its a joke that they have put a roof on Wimbledon thats one of the great things about Wimbledon having to deal with the rain delays.

Disagree. Because of the rain delays Rafa and Nole were extremely tired and exhausted and injured in 2007. :(

Cesc Fabregas
04-08-2009, 09:38 AM
OK Cesc, whatever you say mate. Like I said, anything that's good for Murray is bad for you. I understand how much the thought of Murray playing wimbledon indoors frightens you. :lol:

Nah I have been preaching for months Murray doesn't move well on grass :wink:

Clydey2times
04-08-2009, 09:41 AM
Grass and HC/carpet are not the same....

3 of Murray's 4 biggest results occurred outdoors.

Cinci title, Miami title, US Open final.

His other Masters title was indoors in Madrid.

batz
04-08-2009, 09:41 AM
Grass and HC/carpet are not the same....

Now you're just moving the goalposts. You were gleefully pointing out 2 minutes ago that most of Murray's titles have come indoors. Now it has been pointed out to you that this means a wet wimbledon offers Murray an advantage, you've moved on to the surface.

Doesn't matter whether you think Murray has a good chance or a low chance of winning Wimbledon, the probability of it happening is increased if it's played under a roof, because as you so helpfully pointed out, Murray is at his best indoors.

tahiti
04-08-2009, 09:47 AM
I have no idea how Murray will perform on clay, I'm interested to see. But I do not expect him at all to win it, maybe QFs that's all.

veroniquem
04-08-2009, 09:49 AM
3 of Murray's 4 biggest results occurred outdoors.

Cinci title, Miami title, US Open final.

His other Masters title was indoors in Madrid.
Fast hard courts are ideal conditions for Andy whether they're outdoors or indoors. He is much more likely to win USO than Wimbledon IMO.
RG is definitely the least likely for Andy to ever win, his serve is one of his biggest weapons and it won't work on clay.

Cyan
04-08-2009, 09:56 AM
Now you're just moving the goalposts. You were gleefully pointing out 2 minutes ago that most of Murray's titles have come indoors. Now it has been pointed out to you that this means a wet wimbledon offers Murray an advantage, you've moved on to the surface.

Doesn't matter whether you think Murray has a good chance or a low chance of winning Wimbledon, the probability of it happening is increased if it's played under a roof, because as you so helpfully pointed out, Murray is at his best indoors.

Indoor grass is not the same as indoor HC/carpet.

Cyan
04-08-2009, 09:58 AM
Fast hard courts are ideal conditions for Andy whether they're outdoors or indoors. He is much more likely to win USO than Wimbledon IMO.
RG is definitely the least likely for Andy to ever win, his serve is one of his biggest weapons and it won't work on clay.

Agreed..............

batz
04-08-2009, 10:01 AM
Indoor grass is not the same as indoor HC/carpet. The current grass at W is slower than the grass of the 90s. Even indoors.


Where do I say grass is the same as hardcourt? I'm saying Murray plays better indoors - period. He can be ultra-precise where he places the ball indoors.

The current grass may well be slower than the grass of 90s, but that has nothing to do with anything. What is relevant is that the grass with the roof on will be a bit quicker than the grass with the roof off.

tahiti
04-08-2009, 10:06 AM
I go with this one too. There are a couple of good clay courters that Murray will have to face who are not that good on hardcourt so he might be in for a little surprise.

deltox
04-08-2009, 10:07 AM
i can see him in the qf but no further

Cyan
04-08-2009, 10:13 AM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=234850&highlight=roof+wimbledon




Originally Posted by Fedace

I Agree with this. I heard many experts like Mcenroe and Becker say that if it rains alot, the grass becomes slicker and it bounces LOW and skids thru Fast, which would sound like it will benefit Federer. If it is Dry then the same people have said that the ball will bounce high and take up spin really well. which would benefit Nadal. so if the Roof goes up and the grass remains dry then Nadal will win another Wimbledon next year. This is bad news for federer who is trying to break Pete's record.

Cyan
04-08-2009, 10:36 AM
I go with this one too. There are a couple of good clay courters that Murray will have to face who are not that good on hardcourt so he might be in for a little surprise.

Agreed........

helloworld
04-08-2009, 11:09 AM
Mark my words, the OP is going to an asylum soon. ;)

Shaolin
04-08-2009, 11:16 AM
the quarters in my view will look like this

nadal
fed
jdp
verdasco
simon
djoker
monfils
murray


the semis
nada
fed
monfils
verdasco

finals
nadal
monfils

champ
nadal

well thats how i see it unfolding if the draws hold up near their current rankings

notice i left roddick off the list even though ill be pulling for ihm to reach the QF which is highly unlikely


No Almagro in the mix? That guy is a terror on clay. He got manhandled by Nadal last year but against anyone else he's gonna be tough.

deltox
04-08-2009, 11:17 AM
No Almagro in the mix? That guy is a terror on clay. He got manhandled by Nadal last year but against anyone else he's gonna be tough.

shrug, i gave verdasco the nod over him this year.

CCNM
04-08-2009, 11:31 AM
It would be cool if somebody not named Federer or Nadal won a grand slam this year.

Challenger
04-08-2009, 11:37 AM
notice i left roddick off the list even though ill be pulling for ihm to reach the QF which is highly unlikely

Well, if you think about, his game sorta has become a little more compatible with clay courts. He's got the court coverage, the conditioning/endurance, he can play the safe heavy topspin shots, and his serve should still buy him plenty free points.

But yeah, if he makes the QFs, I will laugh my *** off.

deltox
04-08-2009, 11:39 AM
Well, if you think about, his game sorta has become a little more compatible with clay courts. He's got the court coverage, the conditioning/endurance, he can play the safe heavy topspin shots, and his serve should still buy him plenty free points.

But yeah, if he makes the QFs, I will laugh my *** off.

i agree and i will to, but ill still be happy bout it if he does., he hates clay though, its obvious by his yearly appearances

Kaptain Karl
04-08-2009, 11:40 AM
75% ... Nadal

10% ... Federer
8% ... Verdasco, Ferrer, Tsonga
5% ... Djoker, Simon, Murray
2% ... Everybody else

- KK

illkhiboy
04-08-2009, 12:26 PM
75% ... Nadal

10% ... Federer
8% ... Verdasco, Ferrer, Tsonga
5% ... Djoker, Simon, Murray
2% ... Everybody else

- KK

What makes you think Tsonga and Verdasco are better claycourters than Djokovic? And not only that, but they have not proven themselves capable of winning a major championship though Tsonga appears to be strong enough to pull it off. He did win the Paris Masters last year in style.

deltox
04-08-2009, 12:36 PM
75% ... Nadal

10% ... Federer
8% ... Verdasco, Ferrer, Tsonga
5% ... Djoker, Simon, Murray
2% ... Everybody else

- KK

no love for Monfils :(

Nadal_Freak
04-08-2009, 12:38 PM
75% ... Nadal

10% ... Federer
8% ... Verdasco, Ferrer, Tsonga
5% ... Djoker, Simon, Murray
2% ... Everybody else

- KK
Nadal only 75% favorite? And you are giving too many of the players a chance. Everbody else and Verdasco, Tsonga, and Simon have 0%. ;) Federer definitely doesn't have 10%. Djokovic has more of a chance. I would go with...
Nadal 90%
Djokovic 5%
Federer 3%
Murray/Ferrer/Verdasco 1.9%
Everyone else .1%

Morrissey
04-08-2009, 12:43 PM
I'd say given the morale of both Murray and Fed right now I'd say they're dead even in terms of winning the French Open. Murray's game is not suited to clay while Fed's is better suited for it. But Fed is mentally in shambles while Murray looks real good in the confidence dept.

Anything less than 90% for Nadal in terms of winning the FO in his peak is definitely a head scratcher.


Or a hater. :-P

imalil2gangsta4u
04-08-2009, 03:04 PM
Thanks for the laugh. I think djokovic can pull it throug if he gets his mental act together.

now THATS a laugh

vtmike
04-08-2009, 03:14 PM
I am sure you could find in excess of 50 posts saying how Nadal was "too tired", "couldn't cope with the conditions" and so on. If you read back over this entire thread,

List of excuses by Nadal_Freak during and after the match between Nadal & Del Potro:-

~Nadal tanking like he needs to do. Less than 2 weeks is the clay season.

~Nadal decided he wants to win this match afterall. I think Del Potro ****ed him off.

~Yeah I can. Rafa looked uninspired and quiet for a set in a half. He got annoyed with Del Potro calling late challenges and started to bring in the intensity soon after.

~Nadal has 13 days to rest for Monte Carlo if he loses. I didn't know they squeezed the schedule again this year. I thought they fixed that.

~It's a complaint about how compact the schedule is. For good reason Nadal should lose. He probably isn't thinking about that right now but he does seem to act tired. He probably would enjoy that extra rest.

~Well Rome is on clay. Nadal had some struggles there as well. Hamburg is also very humid. No surprise the tournaments Nadal struggles with are the most are humid. Nadal's shots go short and don't bounce as high. Just look how much Nadal loved Indian Wells.

~These humid conditions are really detrimental to Nadal's game. Nadal would rather play indoors imo than in Miami.

~The only way humid conditions can help is if it can tire the other opponent more as well.

~AH I'm angry.

~Nadal lost in Miami. So what? Yeah he is way ahead of everyone on the rankings. The conditions don't suit him there. Monte Carlo is only 13 days away. The exciting times are just beginning. Vamos.

~Yeah really. This loss will benefit Nadal. He will be fresher for the clay season due to it. He needs every bit of those 13 days to recover fully for the clay season.

~Nadal gave DP this match. DP did nothing to earn it.

The last one takes the cake! :lol:

Kaptain Karl
04-08-2009, 04:18 PM
What makes you think Tsonga and Verdasco are better claycourters than Djokovic?NWIP. I think Djoker's mind is too whacky. That's what drove my number for him.


no love for Monfils :(Um ... no. See "head case."


Nadal only 75% favorite?I get it. You'll argue with anything which doesn't put Nadal on the top of a VERY high pedestal. 75% is *really* high odds ... especially considering my number for "his closest rival."


I'd say given the morale of both Murray and Fed right now I'd say they're dead even in terms of winning the French Open. Murray's game is not suited to clay while Fed's is better suited for it. But Fed is mentally in shambles while Murray looks real good in the confidence dept.Finally! Some logic in a post.

I don't agree, but it's good to see someone reasoning in their post....

Anything less than 90% for Nadal in terms of winning the FO in his peak is definitely a head scratcher.


Or a hater. :-PAwww...! And you were doing so well.

- KK

Stchamps
04-08-2009, 04:28 PM
I'm a Federer fan, but seriously Nadal looked like he was from another planet last year in the French Open. If he plays half as well as he did last year then he will still win.

canuckfan
04-08-2009, 04:28 PM
what does nwip mean?

Fedace
04-08-2009, 04:29 PM
I think he miss spelled the Wimbledon with French open...

mawashi
04-08-2009, 05:37 PM
I would think that clay doesn't suit Murray's game as even he says he wants to end points faster n that isn't easily done on clay where you need to construct the points more.

The pace of his flat shots gets eaten up by clay, he doesn't hit with that much topspin enough to trouble clay court players.

Fact is Fed is a better clay player than Murry.

mawashi

JoshDragon
04-08-2009, 07:00 PM
I will revive this thread at the conclusion of the French Open so that I can prove to everyone that I was right!

Let the pricey_aus bashing begin!:twisted:

You're right, I can see this happening. Roddick, draws Nadal in the first round and pulls of the upset of his life. Then Donald Young, plays Federer in the quarters. The match is close but Donald is able to win because Federer's forehand defeats him. Roddick and Murray both make the semi-finals along with Donald Young and Boris Becker who comes out of retirement just for this tournament. Young and Murray both make the finals where Murray wins in an epic five set match.

Yes, I think there's a very good chance this could happen.

GameSampras
04-08-2009, 07:02 PM
Murray has about as much chance of winning the French as Sampras does coming back right now and winning it.

Kaptain Karl
04-08-2009, 07:10 PM
what does nwip mean?Not What I Posted

- KK



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Nadal_Freak
04-08-2009, 07:19 PM
I get it. You'll argue with anything which doesn't put Nadal on the top of a VERY high pedestal. 75% is *really* high odds ... especially considering my number for "his closest rival."

Nadal's had like 2 losses in the last 3 years on clay? RG being the farthest from him losing. It is definitely higher than 75%.

roderer
04-08-2009, 07:32 PM
Mark my words, Andy Murray will NOT win the 2009 French Open

FEDERER>buttpicker.
04-08-2009, 07:47 PM
Mark my words, Federer will win the 2009 French Open.

Shaolin
04-08-2009, 08:45 PM
Nadal 92% chance of winning

Fed 4%

Murray 2%

Djokovic 2%

Rest of Field 0%

Just hold the award ceremony and lets get on with the grass court season...

vndesu
04-08-2009, 08:46 PM
cant we just get along and wait instead of spending all this time fighting?
lol
id like to see how much nadal would dominate, but then i wanna see upsets during the tournament.
just wait jeez xD

ChuDat
04-08-2009, 08:48 PM
A better title would be Mark my words, Andy Murray will reach QF or SF at the 2009 French Open

Kaptain Karl
04-08-2009, 09:21 PM
75% ... Nadal

10% ... Federer
8% ... Verdasco, Ferrer, Tsonga
5% ... Djoker, Simon, Murray
2% ... Everybody else

- KK

It is definitely higher than 75%.Psst, Nadal_Freak. Look up there ^^. The name posting those numbers is mine. It's my opinion.

Why are you so bent out of shape about what other people think? This is just an InterNet forum; it's no big deal....

If Nadal wins the French Open *both* you and I will have been correct. (Pretty cool, huh?)

- KK



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carlos djackal
04-08-2009, 11:04 PM
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is gonna beat Nadal at the French, at least not for the next 4 years if he stays healthy.




i agree...........FO is his home....

Underhand
04-08-2009, 11:54 PM
Donald Young: 99%
Nadal: 1%
Others: 0%

Nadal_Freak
04-09-2009, 06:26 AM
Psst, Nadal_Freak. Look up there ^^. The name posting those numbers is mine. It's my opinion.

Why are you so bent out of shape about what other people think? This is just an InterNet forum; it's no big deal....

If Nadal wins the French Open *both* you and I will have been correct. (Pretty cool, huh?)

- KK

I don't agree with you but I'm not bent out of shape about it. just take a look at Nadal's winning percentage on clay and he's never lost on at RG. 4/4 He didn't even lose a set last year and his form looks even better this year on hardcourts.

cknobman
04-09-2009, 06:39 AM
Fed breaking racquet: 80%
Roddick verbally abusing umpire: 90%
Nadal picking his butt: 100%
Djokovic retiring due to insert random reason: 75%
Roddick going out 1st round: 65%

Fed making finals: 80%
Nadal winning: 90%
Murray making SF: 70%

TW poster argue this until their fingers hurt: 99%

batz
04-09-2009, 06:42 AM
Fed breaking racquet: 80%
Roddick verbally abusing umpire: 90%
Nadal picking his butt: 100%
Djokovic retiring due to insert random reason: 75%
Roddick going out 1st round: 65%

Fed making finals: 80%
Nadal winning: 90%
Murray making SF: 70%

TW poster argue this until their fingers hurt: 99%


LOL :) Nice one CK.

I'm liking your Murray 70%, but if I'm honest I think you're being too generous.

Kaptain Karl
04-09-2009, 06:45 AM
Fed breaking racquet: 80%
Roddick verbally abusing umpire: 90%The first is probably a better "bet" than the second ... cuz Roddick doesnt' usually get that many opportunities (matches) to flame the Ump.

Nadal picking his butt: 100%
Djokovic retiring due to insert random reason: 75%
Roddick going out 1st round: 65%These are fun.

TW poster argue this until their fingers hurt: 99%So true...!

- KK



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Cyan
04-09-2009, 06:45 AM
What makes you think Tsonga and Verdasco are better claycourters than Djokovic? And not only that, but they have not proven themselves capable of winning a major championship though Tsonga appears to be strong enough to pull it off. He did win the Paris Masters last year in style.

Exactly. Nole is better on clay than Tsonga and Verdasco.

Shaolin
04-09-2009, 08:07 AM
Donald Young: 99%
Nadal: 1%
Others: 0%

LOL.......

theduh
04-09-2009, 03:27 PM
Fed breaking racquet: 80%
Roddick verbally abusing umpire: 90%
Nadal picking his butt: 100%
Djokovic retiring due to insert random reason: 75%
Roddick going out 1st round: 65%

Fed making finals: 80%
Nadal winning: 90%
Murray making SF: 70%

TW poster argue this until their fingers hurt: 99%

LOL! You should have used the Master Card tagline. TW posters getting annoyed by this forum -> Priceless!

RFtennis
04-09-2009, 03:54 PM
Might be a bit hard for Murray when Nadal is playing the tournament

Hot Sauce
04-09-2009, 04:28 PM
Mark my words, Andy Murray will NOT win the 2009 French Open

Marked. Sounds about right.

Hope
04-10-2009, 01:16 AM
You guys talk as if form is permanent. Roger Federer did not lose a match on grass for 5 years and lost at Wimbledon. Nadal has over-achieved this last year - remember the time he did not go beyond the quarterfinal between the French (apart from Wimbledon) one year and Monte Carlo the next? . Did anyone notice how he kept missing his forehand against Del Potro in Miami? And don't forget those knees.
I will take Mats Wilander's word for it (said in jest perhaps at the US Open 2008). Roger Federer will win the French this year.
As for Murray, he could do better than last year, but has anyone ever known a British winner? I haven't -they are not taught to win - we saw what happened in Melbourne. I say max 4th round.

120mphBodyServe
04-10-2009, 01:45 AM
I admire the OP's courage...
Please let someone else win the FO and have Nadal beaten in a nerve wrecking 5 set final. Let it be Roger or Andy Murray...
I shall dream for that moment. Who is with me?

TheNatural
04-10-2009, 01:49 AM
I'll let the TAB mark your words. How much money are you dropping on it since you're so confident?

The amount you drop on it will determine how much you REALLY believe this will happen.

Its a very Australian thing to do too to punt and drop a few $$ on the underdog. You're going to be rich if you're confident enough to to back Murray as soon as possible.

So update the thread and let us know how much you will be willing to lose, hahah :). If the answer is nothing then its not a very bold prediction then is it.


Make us look bad? hahahahahahaha
It is un-australian to not go for the underdog
and 2. I am one person who is voicing there opinion. I am not making you look bad at all. You make yourself look bad by saying something like that!

thejoe
04-10-2009, 01:51 PM
Ok, hows this. I am playing in a tournament at the moment and if i win my round today i will get like 130 bucks or something along those lines. I will put half on Andy to win if I win.

You don't like the thread, dont comment. You sir are a troll, and I do not see the need why you have to comment. Leave it alone.

You'll be wasting your money.

mbstriker
04-10-2009, 02:26 PM
Mark My Words Nadal Isnt Dead

egn
04-10-2009, 02:55 PM
If Murray wins I will be happy to see someone challenge Nadal on clay but that happiness will be replaced with depression because these very forums will be flodded with millions of threads on why Andy Murray is GOAT.

TheNatural
04-10-2009, 04:05 PM
Pricey there are the odds on the FO futures at the sportstab now:

NADAL Rafael 1.40
FEDERER Roger 7.00
DJOKOVIC Novak 15.00
MURRAY Andy 15.00
DEL POTRO Juan Martin 21.00
VERDASCO Fernando 21.00
GONZALEZ Fernando 26.00
MONFILS Gael 26.00
ALMAGRO Nicolas 34.00
FERRER David 34.00
NALBANDIAN David 34.00

If you bet $65 on Murray to win the FO now you'll end up with a whopping $975!! :shock:





Originally Posted by pricey_aus View Post
Ok, hows this. I am playing in a tournament at the moment and if i win my round today i will get like 130 bucks or something along those lines. I will put half on Andy to win if I win.

You don't like the thread, dont comment. You sir are a troll, and I do not see the need why you have to comment. Leave it alone.


You'll be wasting your money.

deltox
04-10-2009, 04:24 PM
Pricey there are the odds on the FO futures at the sportstab now:

NADAL Rafael 1.40
FEDERER Roger 7.00
DJOKOVIC Novak 15.00
MURRAY Andy 15.00
DEL POTRO Juan Martin 21.00
VERDASCO Fernando 21.00
GONZALEZ Fernando 26.00
MONFILS Gael 26.00
ALMAGRO Nicolas 34.00
FERRER David 34.00
NALBANDIAN David 34.00

If you bet $65 on Murray to win the FO now you'll end up with a whopping $975!! :shock:

where is davy? he was gonna be back before the french i thought id bet on him for 20.00 if he had bad odds lol

egn
04-10-2009, 04:44 PM
Fat Dave for the win =] 34 to 1 odds thats worth betting on.

TheNatural
04-10-2009, 05:55 PM
Davydenko is $81.00(odds may vary in other places). not bad- but where is he now, hes only played 3 matches all year.

Full list is here: (http://www.tab.com.au/Sports/Betting/PlaceFixedOddsBet.aspx?State=2&LocationCode=1&Competition=306006&ContestCode=88584&ContestDate=2009-05-25T00%3a00%3a00&MeetingType=1&BetOption=FFOFTFRENWN)

NADAL Rafael 1.40 $
FEDERER Roger 7.00 $
DJOKOVIC Novak 15.00 $
MURRAY Andy 15.00 $
DEL POTRO Juan Martin 21.00 $
VERDASCO Fernando 21.00 $
GONZALEZ Fernando 26.00 $
MONFILS Gael 26.00 $
ALMAGRO Nicolas 34.00 $
FERRER David 34.00 $
NALBANDIAN David 34.00 $
TSONGA Jo-Wilfred 67.00 $
DAVYDENKO Nikolay 81.00
ROBREDO Tommy 81.00 $
SIMON Gilles 81.00 $
GASQUET Richard 101.00 $
CILIC Marin 126.00 $
WAWRINKA Stanislas 126.00 $
BERDYCH Tomas 151.00 $
FERRERO Juan Carlos 151.00 $
ANDREEV Igor 201.00 $
CHARDY Jeremy 201.00 $
GULBIS Ernests 201.00 $
MONACO Juan 201.00 $
ACASUSO Jose 251.00 $
ANCIC Mario 251.00 $
BAGHDATIS Marcos 251.00 $
BLAKE James 251.00 $
HEWITT Lleyton 251.00 $
MATHIEU Paul-Henri 251.00 $
RODDICK Andy 251.00 $
SAFIN Marat 251.00 $
STEPANEK Radek 251.00 $
BELLUCCI Thomaz 501.00 $
CANAS Guillermo 501.00 $
CHELA Juan Ignacio 501.00 $
HAAS Tommy 501.00 $
KOHLSCHREIBER Philipp 501.00 $
SODERLING Robin 501.00 $
TROCIKI Viktor 501.00 $
YOUZHNY Mikhail 501.00 $
BENNETEAU Julien 1001.00 $
BOLELLI Simone 1001.00 $
CALLERI Agustin 1001.00 $
CLEMENT Arnaud 1001.00 $
DARCIS Steve 1001.00 $
FISH Mardy 1001.00 $
FOGNINI Fabio 1001.00 $
GICQUEL Marc 1001.00 $
GIL Frederico 1001.00 $
GINEPRI Robby 1001.00 $
GRANOLLERS Marcel 1001.00 $
HANESCU Victor 1001.00 $
HERNYCH Jan 1001.00 $
KARLOVIC Ivo 1001.00 $
KIEFER Nicolas 1001.00 $
KUNITSYN Igor 1001.00 $
LJUBICIC Ivan 1001.00 $
LOPEZ Feliciano 1001.00 $
MASSU Nicolas 1001.00 $
MELZER Jurgen 1001.00 $
MONTANES Albert 1001.00 $
NIEMINEN Jarkko 1001.00 $
NISHIKORI Kei 1001.00 $
QUERREY Sam 1001.00 $
SANTORO Fabrice 1001.00 $
SCHWANK Eduardo 1001.00 $
SEPPI Andreas 1001.00 $
SERRA Florent 1001.00 $
STARACE Potito 1001.00 $
TIPSAREVIC Janko 1001.00 $
TURSUNOV Dmitry 1001.00 $
VLIEGEN Kristof 1001.00 $
ANDERSON Kevin 2001.00 $
ANDUJAR Pablo 2001.00 $
BECKER Benjamin 2001.00 $
CAPDEVILLE Paul 2001.00 $
DABUL Brian 2001.00 $
DANCEVIC Frank 2001.00 $
DANIEL Marcos 2001.00 $
DELIC Amer 2001.00 $
DEVILDER Nicolas 2001.00 $
GABASHVILI Teimuraz 2001.00 $
GARCIA-LOPEZ Guillermo 2001.00 $
GIMENO-TRAVER Daniel 2001.00 $
GOLUBEV Andrey 2001.00 $
GREMELMAYR Denis 2001.00 $
HERNANDEZ Oscar 2001.00 $
HORNA Luis 2001.00 $
ISTOMIN Denis 2001.00 $
JUNQUEIRA Diego 2001.00 $
KARANUSIC Roko 2001.00 $
KENDRICK Robert 2001.00 $
LAPENTTI Nicolas 2001.00 $
LLODRA Michael 2001.00 $
LU Yen-Hsun 2001.00 $
MAHUT Nicolas 2001.00 $
MALISSE Xavier 2001.00 $
MARTIN Alberto 2001.00 $
MULLER Gilles 2001.00 $
NAVARRO Ivan 2001.00 $
ODESNIK Wayne 2001.00 $
PETZSCHNER Philipp 2001.00 $
PHAU Bjorn 2001.00 $
REYNOLDS Bobby 2001.00 $
ROCHUS Christophe 2001.00 $
ROITMAN Sergio 2001.00 $
SCHUETTLER Rainer 2001.00 $
SELA Dudi 2001.00 $
SPADEA Vincent 2001.00 $
STAKHOVSKY Sergiy 2001.00 $
VASSALLO ARGUELLO Martin 2001.00 $
ZVEREV Mischa 2001.00 $

where is davy? he was gonna be back before the french i thought id bet on him for 20.00 if he had bad odds lol

deltox
04-10-2009, 06:26 PM
Davydenko is $81.00(odds may vary in other places). not bad- but where is he now, hes only played 3 matches all year.

Full list is here: (http://www.tab.com.au/Sports/Betting/PlaceFixedOddsBet.aspx?State=2&LocationCode=1&Competition=306006&ContestCode=88584&ContestDate=2009-05-25T00%3a00%3a00&MeetingType=1&BetOption=FFOFTFRENWN)

NADAL Rafael 1.40 $
FEDERER Roger 7.00 $
DJOKOVIC Novak 15.00 $
MURRAY Andy 15.00 $
DEL POTRO Juan Martin 21.00 $
VERDASCO Fernando 21.00 $
GONZALEZ Fernando 26.00 $
MONFILS Gael 26.00 $
ALMAGRO Nicolas 34.00 $
FERRER David 34.00 $
NALBANDIAN David 34.00 $
TSONGA Jo-Wilfred 67.00 $
DAVYDENKO Nikolay 81.00
ROBREDO Tommy 81.00 $
SIMON Gilles 81.00 $
GASQUET Richard 101.00 $
CILIC Marin 126.00 $
WAWRINKA Stanislas 126.00 $
BERDYCH Tomas 151.00 $
FERRERO Juan Carlos 151.00 $
ANDREEV Igor 201.00 $
CHARDY Jeremy 201.00 $
GULBIS Ernests 201.00 $
MONACO Juan 201.00 $
ACASUSO Jose 251.00 $
ANCIC Mario 251.00 $
BAGHDATIS Marcos 251.00 $
BLAKE James 251.00 $
HEWITT Lleyton 251.00 $
MATHIEU Paul-Henri 251.00 $
RODDICK Andy 251.00 $
SAFIN Marat 251.00 $
STEPANEK Radek 251.00 $
BELLUCCI Thomaz 501.00 $
CANAS Guillermo 501.00 $
CHELA Juan Ignacio 501.00 $
HAAS Tommy 501.00 $
KOHLSCHREIBER Philipp 501.00 $
SODERLING Robin 501.00 $
TROCIKI Viktor 501.00 $
YOUZHNY Mikhail 501.00 $
BENNETEAU Julien 1001.00 $
BOLELLI Simone 1001.00 $
CALLERI Agustin 1001.00 $
CLEMENT Arnaud 1001.00 $
DARCIS Steve 1001.00 $
FISH Mardy 1001.00 $
FOGNINI Fabio 1001.00 $
GICQUEL Marc 1001.00 $
GIL Frederico 1001.00 $
GINEPRI Robby 1001.00 $
GRANOLLERS Marcel 1001.00 $
HANESCU Victor 1001.00 $
HERNYCH Jan 1001.00 $
KARLOVIC Ivo 1001.00 $
KIEFER Nicolas 1001.00 $
KUNITSYN Igor 1001.00 $
LJUBICIC Ivan 1001.00 $
LOPEZ Feliciano 1001.00 $
MASSU Nicolas 1001.00 $
MELZER Jurgen 1001.00 $
MONTANES Albert 1001.00 $
NIEMINEN Jarkko 1001.00 $
NISHIKORI Kei 1001.00 $
QUERREY Sam 1001.00 $
SANTORO Fabrice 1001.00 $
SCHWANK Eduardo 1001.00 $
SEPPI Andreas 1001.00 $
SERRA Florent 1001.00 $
STARACE Potito 1001.00 $
TIPSAREVIC Janko 1001.00 $
TURSUNOV Dmitry 1001.00 $
VLIEGEN Kristof 1001.00 $
ANDERSON Kevin 2001.00 $
ANDUJAR Pablo 2001.00 $
BECKER Benjamin 2001.00 $
CAPDEVILLE Paul 2001.00 $
DABUL Brian 2001.00 $
DANCEVIC Frank 2001.00 $
DANIEL Marcos 2001.00 $
DELIC Amer 2001.00 $
DEVILDER Nicolas 2001.00 $
GABASHVILI Teimuraz 2001.00 $
GARCIA-LOPEZ Guillermo 2001.00 $
GIMENO-TRAVER Daniel 2001.00 $
GOLUBEV Andrey 2001.00 $
GREMELMAYR Denis 2001.00 $
HERNANDEZ Oscar 2001.00 $
HORNA Luis 2001.00 $
ISTOMIN Denis 2001.00 $
JUNQUEIRA Diego 2001.00 $
KARANUSIC Roko 2001.00 $
KENDRICK Robert 2001.00 $
LAPENTTI Nicolas 2001.00 $
LLODRA Michael 2001.00 $
LU Yen-Hsun 2001.00 $
MAHUT Nicolas 2001.00 $
MALISSE Xavier 2001.00 $
MARTIN Alberto 2001.00 $
MULLER Gilles 2001.00 $
NAVARRO Ivan 2001.00 $
ODESNIK Wayne 2001.00 $
PETZSCHNER Philipp 2001.00 $
PHAU Bjorn 2001.00 $
REYNOLDS Bobby 2001.00 $
ROCHUS Christophe 2001.00 $
ROITMAN Sergio 2001.00 $
SCHUETTLER Rainer 2001.00 $
SELA Dudi 2001.00 $
SPADEA Vincent 2001.00 $
STAKHOVSKY Sergiy 2001.00 $
VASSALLO ARGUELLO Martin 2001.00 $
ZVEREV Mischa 2001.00 $

he has been injured and im hoping he comes back strong but its unlikely. but 20.00 wins over 1600.00

egn
04-10-2009, 06:30 PM
I would have expected Marat Safin to have higher odds than Andy Roddick though..he made a french open semifinal once.

Ronny
04-10-2009, 08:03 PM
murray will not make it through past the 3rd round imo....just not good enough on clay compared to the other players.

Breaker
04-10-2009, 08:17 PM
murray will not make it through past the 3rd round imo....just not good enough on clay compared to the other players.

Last year he lost to one of the best clay courters in Almagro, there are only three or four players at or above Almagro's level on clay so last year's Roland Garros isn't that great an indication of how he'll do. The only way is to see how he does in the warm up tournaments then pray to avoid Almagro in his section.

carlos djackal
04-10-2009, 08:24 PM
Chances of winning RG 2009:

Nadal 98 %
Djokovic 1 %
Federer 0.6 %
Murray 0.3 %
Other 0.1 %



I agree and this thread makes me laugh, .....LOL...nice to have a thread like this to enlighten your day and have a laugh....

nhat8121
04-10-2009, 08:30 PM
people that starts threads like this should put something up...like

I will not start up any threads until the next slam if Murray doesn't win the French Open...mark my words

else, what's the point, really? mark your words? your words don't mean ****

crazylevity
04-10-2009, 08:41 PM
What I don't understand is, hasn't Murray been training in Spain since young? Doesn't that mean he has (at least) decent grounding on clay? Why is it that he has been rubbish at clay tournaments thus far?

ChuDat
04-11-2009, 12:50 AM
Off topic but has anyone noticed that Murrays grunt on his serve sound weird?

batz
04-11-2009, 12:52 AM
What I don't understand is, hasn't Murray been training in Spain since young? Doesn't that mean he has (at least) decent grounding on clay? Why is it that he has been rubbish at clay tournaments thus far?


He went to sanchez-casal at the age of 15 and made a couple of CH finals as a kid on the surface. I heard an interview with the BBC a couple of days ago where he says he once 'played very well' on clay and believes he can do so again. He says the reason he's been so poor is that he's not invested enough time on the dirt to move well. Also says the key is to train his butt off on clay under Alex C's guidance so he can move as well on the dirt as he does on hard.

We'll see how he does - I think he can maybe make a semi on the dirt this year.

I tell you what though, Murray becoming a threat on clay would really set the cat among the pigeons.

Cesc Fabregas
04-11-2009, 01:34 AM
He went to sanchez-casal at the age of 15 and made a couple of CH finals as a kid on the surface. I heard an interview with the BBC a couple of days ago where he says he once 'played very well' on clay and believes he can do so again. He says the reason he's been so poor is that he's not invested enough time on the dirt to move well. Also says the key is to train his butt off on clay under Alex C's guidance so he can move as well on the dirt as he does on hard.

We'll see how he does - I think he can maybe make a semi on the dirt this year.

I tell you what though, Murray becoming a threat on clay would really set the cat among the pigeons.

Its not just his movement his serve that he relies on isn't effective on clay, he has a poor topspin forehand and he backhand is too flat and has no margin for error.

miyagi
04-11-2009, 01:37 AM
He went to sanchez-casal at the age of 15 and made a couple of CH finals as a kid on the surface. I heard an interview with the BBC a couple of days ago where he says he once 'played very well' on clay and believes he can do so again. He says the reason he's been so poor is that he's not invested enough time on the dirt to move well. Also says the key is to train his butt off on clay under Alex C's guidance so he can move as well on the dirt as he does on hard.

We'll see how he does - I think he can maybe make a semi on the dirt this year.

I tell you what though, Murray becoming a threat on clay would really set the cat among the pigeons.

why?

10 chars

batz
04-11-2009, 01:47 AM
why?

10 chars

Because up until now Murray has been labelled a hardcourt specialist who won't threaten on natural surfaces. Becoming a threat on the other surfaces would give him a genuine chance of being world number 1 one day. If he can't produce on the natural surfaces then he's probably gone about as far as he can.

That's why it would set the cat among the pigeons - it would give credence to the view that Murray can challenge for the number 1 slot.

For clarity, I'm not saying he will be a threat on clay. What I am saying is that if he did develop his game and became a threat on clay, then it would change the dynamic at the top of the men's game.

charliexd
04-18-2009, 04:46 PM
Mark my words, Andy Murray won't win the 2009 French Open. Unless Nadal gets injured.

Serendipitous
04-18-2009, 04:53 PM
Murray will do well at the FO, for sure.....

GameSampras
04-18-2009, 04:55 PM
And who said Murray sucks on clay? :). Hell he made it further than Fed did only losing to Nadal at Monte Carlo. Hell Murray may have even won Monte Carlo if Nadal wasnt in it. Not bad for a "crappy clay court player." His clay game is already improving. Murray will be a big big threat in a few years on all surfaces no doubt. I think we have Nadal's rival improving right before our eyes

veroniquem
04-18-2009, 05:09 PM
Mark my words, Andy Murray won't win the 2009 French Open. Unless Nadal gets injured.
Neither Murray, Djokovic or Federer will beat Nadal at RG this year. They can all have a go at it if Nadal is out of the equation for whatever reason.

cknobman
04-20-2009, 05:37 AM
Murray dosnt stand a chance against Nadal on clay and it was just proven two days ago.

As a matter of fact I think everyone is severely underestimating Novak. He is a very different player this time versus last year, some for the negative but mostly for the positive. He has in a way "come down to earth" and learned to respect his opponents more. Maybe his game is off a little but its clear he still has what it takes to be a top contender.

An out of form Novak fared much better against Nadal on clay than a "on fire" Murray. Novak is the only person to have taken a set off Nadal at Monte Carlo in over 2 years.

vtmike
04-20-2009, 05:42 AM
And who said Murray sucks on clay? :). Hell he made it further than Fed did only losing to Nadal at Monte Carlo. Hell Murray may have even won Monte Carlo if Nadal wasnt in it. Not bad for a "crappy clay court player." His clay game is already improving. Murray will be a big big threat in a few years on all surfaces no doubt. I think we have Nadal's rival improving right before our eyes

Why because Nadal spanked Murray in straight sets?? :-?

batz
04-20-2009, 06:11 AM
Shock horror - Rafa agrees with the OP! (but not about the year)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/andymurray/5183297/Rafael-Nadal-tips-Andy-Murray-for-Roland-Garros-glory.html

Safinator_1
04-20-2009, 07:02 AM
Anybody can FO even Safin if they can play the games of their life, So its not a big deal if he wins. :P

nikdom
04-20-2009, 08:17 AM
people that starts threads like this should put something up...like

I will not start up any threads until the next slam if Murray doesn't win the French Open...mark my words

else, what's the point, really? mark your words? your words don't mean ****

Hehe.... Amen to that

nikdom
04-20-2009, 08:21 AM
I have a problem with the odds on federer vs the odds on djokovic. Djokovic probably has a better chance as of now. Of course we shall see how Rome and hamburg go.

rafan
04-20-2009, 09:13 AM
Shock horror - Rafa agrees with the OP! (but not about the year)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/andymurray/5183297/Rafael-Nadal-tips-Andy-Murray-for-Roland-Garros-glory.html

Yes this was typical Nadal. It shows his kindness and warmth of spirit. I think when his time comes to retire he will be useful to the world of tennis by encouraging and helping others - when he's not catching fish