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Kostas
04-09-2009, 07:42 AM
Hey all.

I started playing USTA last summer for Mixed with my wife. I'm a 3.0 with a Mixed Exclusive Year-end Rating.

My goal this year is to get bumped to a 3.5. I don't get to work on alot of stuff by myself but I make a point to work on components of my game during our team "practices" (which are usually once or twice a week) and I'm making some pretty good improvements - especially on my serve.

I'm playing on a 3.0 and a 3.5 team this spring.

I know there are a ton of random variables that go into the dynamic rating calculation, but what would you guys guess that my spring record would need to be versus both 3.0 and 3.5 opponents (doubles exclusively) in order to earn a 3.5 year end rating?

I'm currently 2-0 in 3.0 and will probably play 3 more matches.

I'm currently 1-0 in 3.5 and will probably play 3 to 5 more matches.

Thanks in advance for any opinions.

LeeD
04-09-2009, 08:09 AM
Well, first get your second serves to 97%, with lots of topspin, not too much pace, and placement to both corners AND dead up the center of the service court.
Return all kinds of different serves from all kinds of servers, including short wide serves, hard flat serves, high bouncing serves, twists, and slices.
Now get your forehand so you can hit 5 consecutives returns up the middle, to opponent's backhand, and out wide to the opponent's backhand. That's THREE different locations.
Do the same with your backhand.
Hit some volleys from 3' inside the baseline. They should all go about service line deep....deeper when you move IN to put the ball away.
Hit overheads from 2' behind the service line. Should be forcing and 95%.
You are now 3.5.

goober
04-09-2009, 08:15 AM
Well, first get your second serves to 97%, with lots of topspin, not too much pace, and placement to both corners AND dead up the center of the service court.
Return all kinds of different serves from all kinds of servers, including short wide serves, hard flat serves, high bouncing serves, twists, and slices.
Now get your forehand so you can hit 5 consecutives returns up the middle, to opponent's backhand, and out wide to the opponent's backhand. That's THREE different locations.
Do the same with your backhand.
Hit some volleys from 3' inside the baseline. They should all go about service line deep....deeper when you move IN to put the ball away.
Hit overheads from 2' behind the service line. Should be forcing and 95%.
You are now 3.5.

lol I am not sure I have met any 3.5s that can do all this.:)

TennisND
04-09-2009, 08:22 AM
I agreed with goober. Maybe an 4.0 can do all of this, especially with 97% second serve.

Nellie
04-09-2009, 08:23 AM
Is your goal to improve or to get a 3.5 rating? Pretty much if you win any more 3.5 matches, you should be bumped up.

LeeD
04-09-2009, 08:23 AM
Well, I could, and I got to the finals of my first C tournament (3.5's) and won my second C tournament. So that made me a B or 4.5 player my 3rd year. Losing in the finals of my first tournament guarantees I wasn't quite up to C level against top competition, but the second tournament 3 months later meant I passed that hurdle from 3.5 to 4.5.
I've been playing a few USTA ranked 3.5 lately around Berkeley Calif., and I'd say, if they could do what I listed, they'd have a good chance to beat me.
I claim 4.0 due to old age (60), and not much practice.

Kostas
04-09-2009, 08:28 AM
I know I need to improve most areas of my game. I'm working hardest on developing a kick 2nd serve and I'm making pretty good progress.
My strongest area is my net play (volleys and overheads - which is a nice benefit since I play doubles mostly). Ground strokes are up and down.

I have little doubt I will reach 3.5 but my goal is to do it this year and I know there are certain benchmarks that I should meet in terms of my shots/strokes, the bottom line is my official rating is calculated based on my match results and that's more of what I was wondering.

What do you guys think my record needs to be in both 3.0 and 3.5 for me to qualify for a bump?

Again - I know it depends on the game score and the rating of my opponents and no one really knows for sure how the calculations work. But I'm just curious as to your opinions.

Thanks.

burosky
04-09-2009, 08:38 AM
Even if you win all your matches there no guarantees you will be bumped up. It all depends on how you did on those matches and who you played against.

Just keep playing those matches. Your results will take care of your rating.

burosky
04-09-2009, 08:42 AM
Well, first get your second serves to 97%, with lots of topspin, not too much pace, and placement to both corners AND dead up the center of the service court.
Return all kinds of different serves from all kinds of servers, including short wide serves, hard flat serves, high bouncing serves, twists, and slices.
Now get your forehand so you can hit 5 consecutives returns up the middle, to opponent's backhand, and out wide to the opponent's backhand. That's THREE different locations.
Do the same with your backhand.
Hit some volleys from 3' inside the baseline. They should all go about service line deep....deeper when you move IN to put the ball away.
Hit overheads from 2' behind the service line. Should be forcing and 95%.
You are now 3.5.

If this is how 3.5s play in your area, please let me know what area you are from so I know to stay away from those 3.5s. They are just way too good.

spiderman123
04-09-2009, 09:28 AM
Well, first get your second serves to 97%, with lots of topspin, not too much pace, and placement to both corners AND dead up the center of the service court.
Return all kinds of different serves from all kinds of servers, including short wide serves, hard flat serves, high bouncing serves, twists, and slices.
Now get your forehand so you can hit 5 consecutives returns up the middle, to opponent's backhand, and out wide to the opponent's backhand. That's THREE different locations.
Do the same with your backhand.
Hit some volleys from 3' inside the baseline. They should all go about service line deep....deeper when you move IN to put the ball away.
Hit overheads from 2' behind the service line. Should be forcing and 95%.
You are now 3.5.

Don't forget, you must be able to balance a ball on the bottom of your racquet handle while hopping on your right leg to be a 3.5.

(if you can hop on your left leg while doing that, you are a strong 3.5)

IceNineTX
04-09-2009, 09:45 AM
If this is how 3.5s play in your area, please let me know what area you are from so I know to stay away from those 3.5s. They are just way too good.

Yep, that's not even close to reality around here. You want to move up? Beat the people you are told to play and it'll just work itself out.

And don't ever listen to these boards regarding specifics of ratings. Just practice, play, have fun and let the numbers sort themselves out.

burosky
04-09-2009, 10:04 AM
Don't forget, you must be able to balance a ball on the bottom of your racquet handle while hopping on your right leg to be a 3.5.

(if you can hop on your left leg while doing that, you are a strong 3.5)

Is this assuming the OP is a lefty or a righty? :)

Geezer Guy
04-09-2009, 10:48 AM
... what would you guys guess that my spring record would need to be versus both 3.0 and 3.5 opponents (doubles exclusively) in order to earn a 3.5 year end rating? ...

It's really hard to predict if you play only doubles. It depends on who your partner is as well as who your opponents are. If you want to get bumped up to 3.5, enter some USTA tournaments at the 3.5 level and do fairly well.

...

Well (on further thought) if your team goes to sectionals and you (personally) do fairly well at sectionals, there's a much better chance you'll get bumped.

heninfan99
04-09-2009, 11:48 AM
Actually, the dynamic ratings system is a secret formula but apparently some hackers got to it. My guess would be that winning close matches may not be enough. You may have to serve up some begals & bread sticks.

I think the easiest way to get better(outside of having a good coach) at this level is by improving your fitness. My coach kept telling me to hit the gym and it worked but perhaps you're in great shape already.

heninfan99
04-09-2009, 11:53 AM
Haaaaaaaaa!
Don't forget, you must be able to balance a ball on the bottom of your racquet handle while hopping on your right leg to be a 3.5.

(if you can hop on your left leg while doing that, you are a strong 3.5)

Nellie
04-09-2009, 11:57 AM
Everyone I who plays at a higher level and wins some matches/ is competitive in matches will move up.

This is off topic, but I find it interesting that some friends have moved down from playing mixed. For example, one friend (who in the past was a college scholarship player and had a sectional and national doubles ranking) and was a comptuer rated 5.5. He played on a 10.0 USTA team, with a 4.5 partner, won every match, but got moved down to a 5.0 last year. He then plays 9.0 this year with a 4.0 partner, and gets moved down again to a 4.5, despite winning all of his matches. For this guy, being a 4.5 is a joke, and you can tell because every captain within 100 miles has called him to join a 4.5 team.

spiderman123
04-09-2009, 12:12 PM
Everyone I who plays at a higher level and wins some matches/ is competitive in matches will move up.

This is off topic, but I find it interesting that some friends have moved down from playing mixed. For example, one friend (who in the past was a college scholarship player and had a sectional and national doubles ranking) and was a comptuer rated 5.5. He played on a 10.0 USTA team, with a 4.5 partner, won every match, buy got moved down to a 5.0 last year. He then plays 9.0 this year with a 4.0 partner, and gets moved down again to a 4.5, despite winning all of his matches. For this guy, being a 4.5 is a joke, and you can tell because every captain within 100 miles has called him to join a 4.5 team.

If he wanted to stay at 5.0, he could have played 10.0 with another 5.0. He is sure to laugh a lot at that joke this year. Maybe he likes laughing a lot :)

goober
04-09-2009, 12:18 PM
Everyone I who plays at a higher level and wins some matches/ is competitive in matches will move up.

This is off topic, but I find it interesting that some friends have moved down from playing mixed. For example, one friend (who in the past was a college scholarship player and had a sectional and national doubles ranking) and was a comptuer rated 5.5. He played on a 10.0 USTA team, with a 4.5 partner, won every match, buy got moved down to a 5.0 last year. He then plays 9.0 this year with a 4.0 partner, and gets moved down again to a 4.5, despite winning all of his matches. For this guy, being a 4.5 is a joke, and you can tell because every captain within 100 miles has called him to join a 4.5 team.

Well last year one guy posted a USTA link to who was a former pro and played in the main draw at Wimbledon, ended up getting a year end computer rating of 4.5. He was older but it would have been pretty funny to see him at 4.5.

spot
04-09-2009, 01:35 PM
you just play close matches at 3.5 and you will get bumped even if you lose

Kostas
04-09-2009, 09:19 PM
Just played my 2nd 3.5 doubles match and won 6-2, 6-2. My partner was 3.5 obviously but it was a good win. 2-0 in both 3.0 and 3.5.

Team lost 3-2 though. :(

saram
04-09-2009, 10:16 PM
Well, first get your second serves to 97%, with lots of topspin, not too much pace, and placement to both corners AND dead up the center of the service court.
Return all kinds of different serves from all kinds of servers, including short wide serves, hard flat serves, high bouncing serves, twists, and slices.
Now get your forehand so you can hit 5 consecutives returns up the middle, to opponent's backhand, and out wide to the opponent's backhand. That's THREE different locations.
Do the same with your backhand.
Hit some volleys from 3' inside the baseline. They should all go about service line deep....deeper when you move IN to put the ball away.
Hit overheads from 2' behind the service line. Should be forcing and 95%.
You are now 3.5.

97% second serves...professionals don't do that....lol.

raiden031
04-10-2009, 03:53 AM
Just played my 2nd 3.5 doubles match and won 6-2, 6-2. My partner was 3.5 obviously but it was a good win. 2-0 in both 3.0 and 3.5.

Team lost 3-2 though. :(

If your opponents were 3.5s then its a lock you get moved up.

Kostas
04-10-2009, 05:49 AM
Yeah they were 3.5s (at least in the system). One guy said he just got moved up this year and he said his partner had a bad night (like I care).

beernutz
04-10-2009, 06:47 AM
Well, first get your second serves to 97%, with lots of topspin, not too much pace, and placement to both corners AND dead up the center of the service court.
Return all kinds of different serves from all kinds of servers, including short wide serves, hard flat serves, high bouncing serves, twists, and slices.
Now get your forehand so you can hit 5 consecutives returns up the middle, to opponent's backhand, and out wide to the opponent's backhand. That's THREE different locations.
Do the same with your backhand.
Hit some volleys from 3' inside the baseline. They should all go about service line deep....deeper when you move IN to put the ball away.
Hit overheads from 2' behind the service line. Should be forcing and 95%.
You are now 3.5.
That's ********. Look at this page with stats shown for Federer at the 2004 Aussie.
http://www.tennisnavigator.com/products/help/playerprofile_statistics.html
In the first round he hit 43 of 64 first serves. That means he hit 21 second serves. He had 4 double faults. (21-4)/21 = 81%
That's Roger Federer playing some of the best tennis of his career only hit 81% of his second serves. Looking at each round his percentages were:

1st (17/21) - 81%
2nd (23/24) - 96%
3rd (26/28 ) - 93%
4th (23/24) - 96%
QF (53/53) - 100% versus Hewitt - this is amazing imo
SF (36/39) - 92%
F (56/59) - 95%

So he only exceeded 97% of second serves in a match once! His overall stat of 204/218 or 94% second serves made for the match is amazing but still doesn't live up to your standard for 3.5s.

Please stop trolling.

goober
04-10-2009, 07:22 AM
Ah give him a break. He is some old cranky dude telling fish stories. It could be worse:)

Jim A
04-10-2009, 09:17 PM
I was thinking about this today while playing a buddy, we are both on the cusp, he has a C so is safe til the end of the season while I'm looking at a mid season bump as a self-rate.

There were a few points that each of us should have put away, short balls we moved through without stopping, flubbed volley with the whole court open, etc.....a 3.5 would have closed them out...when I make these consistently I'll feel like I'm a solid 3.5

LeeD
04-11-2009, 07:04 AM
% of second serves...
Professionals are rated by their serves during MATCH PLAY against other almost equal pros.
I meant that you have to hit 97% in during your PRACTICE serve sessions, so you KNOW you can almost get them in most times during a match.
Practice and match stats are necessarily DIFFERENT!
I can tell you EVERY top 6.0 player can hit IN 50 out of 50 second serves during practice.

Mada
04-11-2009, 07:50 AM
Well, first get your second serves to 97%, with lots of topspin, not too much pace, and placement to both corners AND dead up the center of the service court.
Return all kinds of different serves from all kinds of servers, including short wide serves, hard flat serves, high bouncing serves, twists, and slices.
Now get your forehand so you can hit 5 consecutives returns up the middle, to opponent's backhand, and out wide to the opponent's backhand. That's THREE different locations.
Do the same with your backhand.
Hit some volleys from 3' inside the baseline. They should all go about service line deep....deeper when you move IN to put the ball away.
Hit overheads from 2' behind the service line. Should be forcing and 95%.
You are now 3.5.

I actually agree with most of this. Except I don't believe a 3.5 needs to be able to get in 97% second serves + have them aimed.

raiden031
04-11-2009, 07:51 AM
% of second serves...
Professionals are rated by their serves during MATCH PLAY against other almost equal pros.
I meant that you have to hit 97% in during your PRACTICE serve sessions, so you KNOW you can almost get them in most times during a match.
Practice and match stats are necessarily DIFFERENT!
I can tell you EVERY top 6.0 player can hit IN 50 out of 50 second serves during practice.

LeeD, I could ony dream of hitting 97% second serves in any practice session yet somehow I've managed to own plenty of 3.5 players out there.

The reality is this:

I can't find too many 3.5s who can provide quality hitting sessions because they don't have enough ball control to hit the ball cooperatively for extended rallies. Try doing a down-the-line drill or cross-court backhand drill with a 3.5...frustrating.

Your nonsense is getting old. Volleying from just inside the baseline and mastering the return of serve...at 3.5?

sMaShGaL
04-11-2009, 06:36 PM
Kostas,

Maybe you could look up some 3.5's from your area that were 3.0's last year and see what their records looked like. Around here, it seems that winning at singles at the higher level is the most common way to get bumped up.

The other school of thought: why do you want to get bumped? If you remain a 3.0 in the ratings, but have proven yourself to be competitive at 3.5, you will always have a 3.5 team that will take you but you have more options because you can also play combo and mixed as a 3.0.

burosky
04-13-2009, 11:43 AM
LeeD, I could ony dream of hitting 97% second serves in any practice session yet somehow I've managed to own plenty of 3.5 players out there.

The reality is this:

I can't find too many 3.5s who can provide quality hitting sessions because they don't have enough ball control to hit the ball cooperatively for extended rallies. Try doing a down-the-line drill or cross-court backhand drill with a 3.5...frustrating.

Your nonsense is getting old. Volleying from just inside the baseline and mastering the return of serve...at 3.5?

Don't put yourself down too fast Raiden. You sure can hit 97% of second serves. Maybe even 100% if you wanted to. Of course we are not talking about the quality of second serves you are hitting. We are just talking second serves. I bet if you just concentrated on dinking your second serve you can get up to 100%. Of course, doing that in a match will likely result in losing the point but that's beside the point.

More so if you are just practicing. Since there is nothing that says you have to hit a certain number of serves, you can theoretically do a second serve one time and if it goes in you are 100%! :)

TennisND
04-14-2009, 08:31 AM
LeeD, I could ony dream of hitting 97% second serves in any practice session yet somehow I've managed to own plenty of 3.5 players out there.

The reality is this:

I can't find too many 3.5s who can provide quality hitting sessions because they don't have enough ball control to hit the ball cooperatively for extended rallies. Try doing a down-the-line drill or cross-court backhand drill with a 3.5...frustrating.

Your nonsense is getting old. Volleying from just inside the baseline and mastering the return of serve...at 3.5?

I don't know your area but I know at least in NC, it's not hard to find a 3.5 who can make those drills. I believe CA is one of the best area for tennis thus the players' quality must be very good. I am surprised to hear what you just said. Are you looking down at 3.5 when you are rated as 4.0 now? I myself find a huge difference between 4.0 and 3.5 regarding consistency but most of 3.5 players can do good enough with basic down-the-line forehand or cross-court backhand shots.

burosky
04-14-2009, 09:18 AM
It is possible, for Raiden's area, that is the case. It wouldn't mean he is looking down on 3.5s.

get it in
04-14-2009, 09:40 AM
The reality is this:

I can't find too many 3.5s who can provide quality hitting sessions because they don't have enough ball control to hit the ball cooperatively for extended rallies. Try doing a down-the-line drill or cross-court backhand drill with a 3.5...frustrating.


The key word here is extended. I think raiden is correct if you put it in that context. I think it also depends on what raiden's level is. If you are a 4.5 then you likely will not be able to find a 3.5 who can provide a quality hitting session simply due to the differences in ability. If raiden were a 3.5 then it's a different story.

Where I am in southern cal, a 3.5 is pretty much able to do down the line and cross court drills off either wings without too much trouble. The difference is pace and depth of shots. On serves, a 3.5 can probably serve to all 3 spots in the box but the pace wouldn't be there. I find it difficult to kick a serve into any location even 90% of the time and I'm near a 3.5 level.

Having said all that, it just depends of how much time you are able to put into practice. It's possible to do all the things LeeD mentioned if you can put in the time, right?

I think levels of play also depend on which coast you are on. West coast players tend to inflate their self ratings a bit more than east coast players. I don't think there's a generalized difference between either coasts in terms of top players in each rating.. Good players are good players no matter where they live.

raiden031
04-14-2009, 09:49 AM
Having said all that, it just depends of how much time you are able to put into practice. It's possible to do all the things LeeD mentioned if you can put in the time, right?


If you can do all the things that LeeD says a 3.5 should do, chances are you would be a better fit playing open tournaments than actually playing in a 3.5 league.


I think levels of play also depend on which coast you are on. West coast players tend to inflate their self ratings a bit more than east coast players. I don't think there's a generalized difference between either coasts in terms of top players in each rating.. Good players are good players no matter where they live.

I thought all the sandbaggers are in California. I've traveled to Nationals in both men's and mixed and would say that the playing field is pretty level throughout the regions. There are always a handful of players out of level but the majority are all near each other (and in the case of Nationals, usually they are overlapped into the next level but not all that much).

raiden031
04-14-2009, 10:02 AM
I don't know your area but I know at least in NC, it's not hard to find a 3.5 who can make those drills. I believe CA is one of the best area for tennis thus the players' quality must be very good. I am surprised to hear what you just said. Are you looking down at 3.5 when you are rated as 4.0 now? I myself find a huge difference between 4.0 and 3.5 regarding consistency but most of 3.5 players can do good enough with basic down-the-line forehand or cross-court backhand shots.

I just don't think 3.5 is as good as people on this board make them out to be. They look at a video of a college player and say he's only a 3.5, when the average 3.5 joe in my league doesn't have strokes anywhere near that.

It has much to do with the age group of the players. USTA league players tend to be middle-aged and often have spent many years playing but without really learning proper fundamentals. Then you might have the 3.5 players on the board who are high school players with good athletism and strokes, but lack the experience to be any better than 3.5. The controversial USTA videos posted here are a perfect example of the 3.5 to 4.0 league player that the youngsters here think are 2.5s because their strokes are ugly.

I would say the average 3.5 league player is tough to beat because they are often crafty and can keep the ball in play relentlessly, but when it comes to hitting into a small area consistently in the above mentioned hitting drills, they aren't very good at it. At least thats what its like from my experience. I know I am better at rallying during a match than I am at hitting to a spot over and over during a drill.

Kostas
04-15-2009, 06:31 AM
Well another update.

Won my 3rd 3.0 match last night - 6-0, 6-1.

3.0: 3-0
3.5: 2-0

goober
04-15-2009, 06:36 AM
Well another update.

Won my 3rd 3.0 match last night - 6-0, 6-1.

3.0: 3-0
3.5: 2-0

Well you are clearly going to reach your goal of getting bumped to 3.5. If you keep that undefeated record watch out for the double bump.

Kostas
04-15-2009, 09:14 AM
haha a double would be rediculous. I'm not even close to a 4.0.

I think I'm a decent (maybe not quite solid) 3.5 doubles player. But 4.0? That would be a joke.

TennisND
04-16-2009, 05:12 AM
Kotas, do you play single or double?

Kostas
04-16-2009, 07:23 AM
I play doubles exclusively. I'm a horrible singles player.
I played a 3.0 singles tourney a couple of months ago and I won 1 games total in 2 matches.

It looks like this whole little innocent quest for improvement is going to backfire on me. I started playing tennis about two years ago with my wife (who is a strong 4.0). I started USTA league tennis last year and self-rated as a 3.0 (a completely honest self-rating - as my results from last year completely support). I was 2-1 in mixed and 4-4 in 6.5 combo. I ended the year with a Mixed Exclusive Year End Rating at 3.0.

I played alot indoors over the winter and in an ongoing effort to get better decided to join both a 3.0 and a 3.5 spring team as I've already mentioned.
My 3.0 team is a good team - the best in our league and we're most likely going to state. We're 4-1 and have many strong 3.0 players.

Our best singles player is a former high school player (10 or so years ago) that got back into tennis last year and self rated at 3.0. I believe his year end was the same as mine. He’s also playing both 3.0 and 3.5 He has gone undefeated in 3.0 and has yet to win a match at 3.5 (1 doubles, 2 singles matches). So his record is like 4-0 [3.0], 0-3 [3.5]. He's played competitive matches at 3.5 but is winless nonetheless.

Well - he got DQ'd yesterday with match forfeiture. This is a guy who's definitely on the cusp and should certainly be bumped at the end of the season. But a mid-season DQ? With match forfeiture?

This hasn't cost us any wins thankfully but guess what? Now I am in danger of being DQ’d and could cost us matches and a chance to go to and win state. I have two wins at 3.5 which, after talking with several people around here, could certainly have me with two strikes already. I could get a 3rd strike for playing a 3.0 match from what I'm told.

I have made no secret of the fact I want to improve and I want my rating to go up at the end of this year. But the idea that I could get bumped mid-season and DQ’d – which to me implies that I have cheated is ridiculous. There is no person that has played with me over the past 12 months that could honestly say that I’m sandbagging at 3.0. I have a lollipop 2nd serve for Christ sake.

So now, I have little choice but to play NO more 3.5 and matches I play at 3.0 could give me my 3rd strike.
Getting DQ’d and bumped would not only be detrimental to my 3.0 team but would also throw off my plans for the rest of the year (6.0 & 7.0 mixed and 6.5 combo). I actually wouldn’t even mind a bump after this spring season – but now would be insane.

On one hand I have done NOTHING wrong and I feel like I should just play and to hell with everything else. But I’ve been told that these types of DQ’s have no recourse and if I did put myself in that position it would hurt my team a lot more than it hurt me.

I’m pretty upset about this because I feel that I and my team could be severely penalized for me simply trying to get better. By the way – the 4 3.5 players I’ve beaten we’re not very good players. Two were on the 3rd court of the worst team in our league, one was a guy who just got bumped from 3.0 this past year and the 4th was just a regular ole 3.5 – nothing special.

I know this NTRP system is far from perfect, but these types of penalties under these circumstances seem extremely excessive.

So what choice do I have other than to just sit out the rest of the season and go with my 3.0 team to state (assuming we can still go without our already DQ’d guy and me for our last couple of matches)?

raiden031
04-16-2009, 07:54 AM
^^^^ based on your posts I would say there is a very good chance you get DQ'd from 3.0 (assuming M ratings are eligible).

I mean if you started out this season already able to win 3.5 matches, then you kinda brought this upon yourself. Its not like you couldnt win early on but then by playoff time you are dominating. You deserve to be DQ'd from 3.0 in my opinion because you are easily winning at 3.5.

I was in a similar boat last year except that I was computer-rated at 3.0 from the previous year. I deserved to be DQ'd from 3.0 but it didn't happen because I didn't play enough at 3.5 or enough singles at 3.0, plus the computer-rating held me down. Of course one can say that you have the right to play where the USTA puts you, which is why I think still I deserved to be DQ'd, but I didn't deserve to have all my matches overturned because it was USTA's choice to rate me at 3.0.

Kostas
04-16-2009, 08:00 AM
Yeah from what I understand computer rated players are "safer" than M's or self rated.

I have read before from USTA that a person at the top of a rating should be a person at the bottom of a rating love-2 usually.
There has to be a range of skill within each level and while I may be towards the top of 3.0 (doubles only) I'm certainly at the bottom of 3.5 and just don't feel that should be considered cheating (which is what a DQ with forfeit means to me).

I don't know if I'll get DQ'd if I don't play anymore because I've been told that it happens automatically when the scores are input and all my matches have been recorded and my internet profile still has me at 3.0.
I'd also be less worried about this if it wouldn't potentially cost my team a win by the DQ. It would be much more reasonable imo if a bump occured with no retroactive penalty.

raiden031
04-16-2009, 08:09 AM
Yeah from what I understand computer rated players are "safer" than M's or self rated.

I have read before from USTA that a person at the top of a rating should be a person at the bottom of a rating love-2 usually.
There has to be a range of skill within each level and while I may be towards the top of 3.0 (doubles only) I'm certainly at the bottom of 3.5 and just don't feel that should be considered cheating (which is what a DQ with forfeit means to me).

I don't know if I'll get DQ'd if I don't play anymore because I've been told that it happens automatically when the scores are input and all my matches have been recorded and my internet profile still has me at 3.0.
I'd also be less worried about this if it wouldn't potentially cost my team a win by the DQ. It would be much more reasonable imo if a bump occured with no retroactive penalty.

Computer-rated players are now immune from dynamic DQ starting this year.

While a top level player should be able to beat a bottom player by that score, it doesn't always happen like that. I have had MANY matches where the score does not reflect our skill level differences accurately. I've bageled people just as good as me and went into 3rd sets with people who are 0.5 worse than me. If you remain undefeated or close to it at 3.5, I'd say you are not just a bottom 3.5.

In your situation, all of your 3.0 wins would be overturned if you got DQ'd.

TennisND
04-16-2009, 08:20 AM
That's DQ is rediculous. I am fine with being DQ but if it made my team losing, that's really ashame.

Kostas
04-16-2009, 08:28 AM
For what it's worth, the combined record of the four 3.5 players I've beat in doubles is 4-12.

Nellie
04-16-2009, 08:49 AM
The real question is where your rating was at the begining of the season. Your teammate may have been at the top end of 3.0 already (likely, if he was successful last year).


Did you do well in mixed last year? If so, you may be on the top end of 3.0 to start, and the wins could push you up, over the threshold.

Also, the competition definately matters - not their records, but their ratings, which you need to infer from prior seasons. For example, I was in a league where a couple of players were DQed whipping up competition with excellent seniors records, so the competition were at the high end of the NTRP rating.


I know you did not want to do anything wrong, but the USTA had problems in the past with people losing at mixed to maintain artificially low ratings.

Kostas
04-16-2009, 09:59 AM
I went 2-1 at 6.0 mixed last summer and 4-4 and 6.5 combo last fall.

Nellie
04-16-2009, 10:04 AM
I don't think that 6.5 results are considered, but overall, it would not appear that you had a strong rating entering the season.

Jim A
04-16-2009, 11:58 AM
you shot yourself in the foot by playing 3.5
my district only allows a person to play in one league

in a roundabout way it will likely keep me from getting DQ'd since I'll play 4-5 matches this season at 1/2 singles, and mostly against the better players in the league. I figure to finish at 3-2 or better..but think that they will be close and keep the bump to the fall for a couple of us..but its my first rodeo so we'll see

sMaShGaL
04-17-2009, 12:54 PM
Can a benchmark player be bumped mid-year?

Topaz
04-17-2009, 01:27 PM
Can a benchmark player be bumped mid-year?

No.

..........

rainman007
04-19-2009, 09:09 AM
if you are 2-0 on the 3.5 level you should be considered for dq in my opinion unless you played 3.0 players on the 3.5 level. your win loss matches dont count so for me on the other hand i got moved up a couple years to early.
in 06 i played 2 matches that counted for ratings i won 6-0, 6-4, and 6-7,7-5, 1-0 my total on matches that counted 26-16
i got bumped to 3.5 my first year as 3.5 was in 2007 where i won a total of 43 games and lost 68.. i didnt get moved backed down. in 2008 my total on matches that counted was 47 games for 89 games against.. i didn't get moved down. this year so far i have played 1 match lost 6-0, 6-0... however this year is the first year i should really be a 3.5.. the player i played with honestly should be a 3.5.. the 3.0 player he played doubles with last year that helped him get a 3-2 record did not move up to 3.5 he should have been the one to move up not the guy i played with.. anyhow he is really a 2.5 player honestly and one of our opponents was a 4.0 really so the 0 and 0 didn't suprise me.. anyhow, my point is if you are 2-0 already on 3.5 you should be in jeopardy of a dq... i love the fact the computer rated players are not at risk of dq and self rates and appeal players are constantly at risk.. this was a great rule change!!!

rainman007
04-19-2009, 09:15 AM
this is another topic altogether but,
its crazy that all your matches dont count.. if you factor in sanctioned tournaments, adult, and mixed EVERY match should count..
well most people know if you play adult, mixed dont count why not??
if you played a 6-0, 6-0 match it doesnt count which is ridiculous
if you play a sanctioned tournament in the southern its not a part of the equation for your year end ntrp..

i think we can all agree the more matches you play the more accurate your rating is.. some people sandbag adult, to try to win mixed, well if all of your matches counted it would encourage less people sandbagging because they'd have to do it all the time. i have never given anyone a game obviously as you can see from the game scores i have reported in the last post but anyway its off topic and i guess i was ranting a bit..
i don't know how your league is but my 3.5 league this year seems like it is the same 3.0 league we had when i was a beginner it seems like its the same people locally that is was 4 or 5 years ago

rainman007
04-19-2009, 09:17 AM
this should read the player i played with should be a 2.5 not 3.5

rainman007
04-19-2009, 09:17 AM
if you are 2-0 on the 3.5 level you should be considered for dq in my opinion unless you played 3.0 players on the 3.5 level. your win loss matches dont count so for me on the other hand i got moved up a couple years to early.
in 06 i played 2 matches that counted for ratings i won 6-0, 6-4, and 6-7,7-5, 1-0 my total on matches that counted 26-16
i got bumped to 3.5 my first year as 3.5 was in 2007 where i won a total of 43 games and lost 68.. i didnt get moved backed down. in 2008 my total on matches that counted was 47 games for 89 games against.. i didn't get moved down. this year so far i have played 1 match lost 6-0, 6-0... however this year is the first year i should really be a 3.5.. the player i played with honestly should be a 3.5.. the 3.0 player he played doubles with last year that helped him get a 3-2 record did not move up to 3.5 he should have been the one to move up not the guy i played with.. anyhow he is really a 2.5 player honestly and one of our opponents was a 4.0 really so the 0 and 0 didn't suprise me.. anyhow, my point is if you are 2-0 already on 3.5 you should be in jeopardy of a dq... i love the fact the computer rated players are not at risk of dq and self rates and appeal players are constantly at risk.. this was a great rule change!!!

this should read the player i played with should be a 2.5 not 3.5