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View Full Version : Weakest female player to win 3 slams or more


anointedone
04-13-2009, 10:42 AM
Since it seems there are alot of female players that ended up with 3 slams who do you believe is the weakest female player to win 3 slam titles or more. I am recreating the poll as the thread merge didnt work as expected. I can see from some earlier comments I made a mistake not including Sanchez Vicario on it though. For this one I decided to just include Open era players that most people probably know. Some of the poll options (eg- Mandlikova, Davenport, Wade) I personally would never vote for but included anyone I could think of to give any possible voting options.

CEvertFan
04-13-2009, 02:52 PM
Capriati, without question.

flying24
04-13-2009, 02:54 PM
Capriati would be my 2nd choice but I would pick Sanchez Vicario. I do think Sanchez Vicario is probably a better player than Capriati. However there is no way Sanchez Vicario ends up with more than maybe 2 slams without the Seles stabbing. That is why I picked her.

egn
04-13-2009, 06:49 PM
Capriati would be my 2nd choice but I would pick Sanchez Vicario. I do think Sanchez Vicario is probably a better player than Capriati. However there is no way Sanchez Vicario ends up with more than maybe 2 slams without the Seles stabbing. That is why I picked her.

True that she never won a slam when Seles and Graf were both there, but the fact that she beat Graf for slams makes her go way ahead of me in this. You beat Steffi Graf for 2 slams..you definitely worked for it. She also beat Seles for one..though it was past prime Seles non the less.

flying24
04-13-2009, 06:53 PM
True that she never won a slam when Seles and Graf were both there, but the fact that she beat Graf for slams makes her go way ahead of me in this. You beat Steffi Graf for 2 slams..you definitely worked for it. She also beat Seles for one..though it was past prime Seles non the less.

True but remember that Seles for whatever reason was a far worse matchup (possibly mental matchup as well) for Sanchez than Graf ever was. Similar to how Monica has more trouble with Novotna, Serena, Venus, Davenport, than Graf ever did (and this would be true even all in their primes together) Sanchez had much more trouble with Seles than Graf.

CEvertFan
04-13-2009, 10:27 PM
True that she never won a slam when Seles and Graf were both there, but the fact that she beat Graf for slams makes her go way ahead of me in this. You beat Steffi Graf for 2 slams..you definitely worked for it. She also beat Seles for one..though it was past prime Seles non the less.


Um, yes she did - the '89 French Open. Seles made it to the semis and lost to Graf in 3 sets. So Graf and Seles were both there.

flying24
04-13-2009, 11:40 PM
Um, yes she did - the '89 French Open. Seles made it to the semis and lost to Graf in 3 sets. So Graf and Seles were both there.

Yeah but that is 15 year old Seles. That she somehow went 3 sets with Graf in the semis, even on clay, was pretty remarkable. Yet perhaps also a sign of Steffi's form that tournament, and a foreshadowing of the big upset to come in the final.

hewittboy
04-13-2009, 11:49 PM
Right now Capriati is clearly the weakest womens player to win 3 slam titles. However she could lose that title in the not too distant future. With how weak the womens field currently is we could even see someone like Ivanovic, Safina, or Kuznetsova fluke their way to 3 slam titles or more. The Williams are already so far from their former best. Still apparently enough to be fending off the other mediocre top players of today and winning, but just barely it seems. They are both getting older, are certainly not putting in the off court work to combat the aging process, and Serena cant keep getting as lucky as she was in Australia this year forever. No great new or even younger talents emerging other than Azarenka, but when there is only one you have to wait to see if she proves she is for real or just a flash in the pan and this is the case with her until further notice. So we could see easily see Ivanovic, Safina, or Kuznetsova, as possabilities to eclipse Capriati as the worst 3 time slam winner in history someime in the next few years. Maybe even more than 1 of them.

hewittboy
04-14-2009, 12:14 AM
How can any of you vote for Sanchez Vicario over Capriati really!?! To any of the 3 who voted that way could you give me any even brief explanation how. If anyone else it should be one of the older players who are harder to compare. Sanchez Vicario was always a better player than Capriati, she led their head to head always even in Capriati's first prime in the early 90s, had more success in everyway both while both were top players and their overall careers. She won many many more tournaments, many more tier 1 tournaments, mantained a higher ranking for so much longer, was in almost 4 times the slam finals, and even won 1 more slam.

As for the Seles stabbing, Seles's best and probably only 3 chances to win more slams after mid 98 were probably the 3 Capriati won in 2001-2002 anyway since Capriati had such a hard time beating a way past her prime post stabbing Seles in 2001 and 2002 as it was. So two can play at that game too. Seles may have been just as likely to win all 3 or as many of those 3 of Capriati's slams as Sanchez's for all we know. The 1998 French Open was also the only time in Seles's comeback she was as fit as the early 90s, it was in her early time working with Gavin Hopper. She was playing on pure emotion that tournament after the sad death of her father. That is one event I doubt she would have played any better in anycase, especialy given she was actually fully fit for about the only time. The 1994 French could have seen Pierce take out Seles in the semis (anyone who played Pierce in the semis that year loses, period) and Sanchez take out Graf in the other semi. Then Sanchez winning the final aided by the rain delay and her superior experience just as it was. At the 1994 U.S Open someone like Novotna, who gave Seles mega difficulty in their couple meetings pre-stabbing in Jana's pre-prime, and even more mega difficulty in their post stabbing meetings when Seles was not only weakened but Jana much improved, may have taken Seles out in the semis or quarters for all we know. Jana was never truly scared of Monica the way she is of Steffi Graf who she had choked away a big 2nd set lead vs in the semis as it was. Or maybe Pierce again, someone who probably would had the type of game to have beaten even prime Seles on the right day, and who actually prefers the pace and rythym Seles would give her to the game of many of the other top players. Either way it is not like Seles was a lock to march to the final and take advantage of advantage of Graf's back collapsing in the final instead of Sanchez. Even though I agree Sanchez probably wasnt ever likely to beat Seles head to head there given the matchup over the years.

Sanchez was not out of contention to win the slams she did without the Seles stabbing. True especialy in 94 very unlikely to beat Seles herself, but who is to say someone else might not have done so for her. Likewise while we pretty much know Seles's reign (in the event it even continued over Graf and later Hingis to this point which is up for debate of course) would have ended at the hands of the power hitting Williams and Davenport by late 98 and 1999, we also dont know if Seles could have taken any or even all of those 3 slams Capriati won away. 3 slams she only won while the aforementioned 3some were either not present or not at their best, so would have been the perfect opportunity for Seles who no doubt would have been no longer the reigning queen of tennis, but who possibly would have still been a real contender and just waiting for that kind of opening that instead went to Capriati.

CEvertFan
04-14-2009, 09:12 AM
Yeah but that is 15 year old Seles. That she somehow went 3 sets with Graf in the semis, even on clay, was pretty remarkable. Yet perhaps also a sign of Steffi's form that tournament, and a foreshadowing of the big upset to come in the final.

I was simply correcting the error. It was stated that Arantxa never won a major where both Graf and Seles were present, which just isn't true.

egn
04-14-2009, 01:43 PM
Um, yes she did - the '89 French Open. Seles made it to the semis and lost to Graf in 3 sets. So Graf and Seles were both there.

Oh did not realize that thank you I stand corrected.

flying24
04-17-2009, 03:53 PM
I am amazed 3 people would vote for Hana Mandlikova and Ann Haydon Jones. Those are probably the 2 best players on the entire list. I also find it amazing Wade would have no votes if those two each have three. I dont believe Wade is the weakest on this list but I definitely believe Mandlikova and Ann Jones are both overall superior players to Virginia Wade.

It would be alot by virtue of bad luck but if Sharapova never wins another slam title I would strongly consider her. Bad luck with the injury as I as I am sure she would have alot of slams had she stayed healthy given her ability and the current worst ever womens field. However if she stays stuck at 3 because injuries wreck her or even cut short her career, she will be a player who only managed 3 slams even in the current most horrible all time field. That would have to give her some strong consideration IMO, although she has been impressively consistently very good in her performance from 2004-2008 when healthy in addition to winning those 3 slams.

boredone3456
04-17-2009, 04:08 PM
I am amazed 3 people would vote for Hana Mandlikova and Ann Haydon Jones. Those are probably the 2 best players on the entire list. I also find it amazing Wade would have no votes if those two each have three. I dont believe Wade is the weakest on this list but I definitely believe Mandlikova and Ann Jones are both overall superior players to Virginia Wade.



I agree completely. Both of those Women are far ahead of Capriati and Wade in my opinion. Mandlikova had to beat Navratilova to win 2 of her slams, and if you ask me her 1985 US Open is way more impressive than any slam Capriati ever won, not to mention Mandlikova's 4 slam runner ups in which it took Evert or Martina to beat her. I feel bad for Mandlikova actually, she had to try and keep up with Evert and Martina. Its a shame she never won Wimbledon and got herself a career grand slam, but with Martina and later Graf running the show there it was probably not ment to be, her best chance would have been in 1981 against Evert, but she played terrible in the final and Evert was on fire.

As for Ann Haydon Jones, her getting 3 votes to me is even more surprising. She won 3 Grand Slams and beat Billie Jean King in 1969 to win Wimbledon, which again is more impressive in and of itself than any of Capriati's slams, not to mention beating Nancy Richey Gunter on clay, thats pretty good to if you ask me. Also her 6 additional slam finals and making at least the quarterfinals of 30 of the 37 slams she entered between 1956 and 1969 against a much deeper field than Capriati had to compete against. Also, how many people can say they won the last slam they ever played? Ann Haydon Jones can, she won Wimbledon in 1969, the last slam she'd ever play in singles.

flying24
04-17-2009, 04:34 PM
Ann Haydon beat Court and King back to back to win Wimbledon during Court's near Grand Slam year, and when King had won the last 3 Wimbledons. That is definitely more impressive than Wade in 1977 beating Evert in the semis but than Betty Stove in the final. I am not saying Wade's feat not very impressive as it definitely was, but just that Ann's was even more so. Furthermore Ann's best surface was clearly clay. Her winning Wimbledon was almost akin to if Wade were to win the French Open. Both of Ann's French Opens were won with the best players at the time like Court, Bueno, and in 66 Richey, present. 1 of Wade's 3 majors was an Australian Open were Court and King were not present.

Mandlikova is one of the most talented players ever. She was inconsistent as heck but she beat prime Evert and Navratilova back-to-back to win her U.S Open, prime Navratilova to win her Australian Open title, prime Evert to win her French Open title. She also beat Navratilova and Evert respectively during good years to reach the finals of Wimbledon only to lose to the other. She beat a young Steffi Graf at the French Open in a year Graf was favored to win the title over Evert and Navratilova based on her clay court performance that spring. Very few if any women on this list come close to that # of performance like this in grand slams vs the very very best. Sure I have said I dont neccesssarily believe that period was very strong as far as overall depth and I still believe that, but the top 3 of Evert-Navratilova-Mandlikova was probably the toughest top 3 ever and the toughest situation for a player obviously clearly below the GOAT contenders to win often in.

I wont even mention Capriati since she doesnt even come close to Wade, let alone Haydon Jones or Mandlikova.

julesb
04-24-2009, 11:31 AM
Capriati, Sanchez, and Hingis. None of them would have more than maybe 1 slam title without the Seles stabbing.

gj011
04-24-2009, 11:33 AM
^^^^^ Agreed.

Lionheart392
04-24-2009, 01:45 PM
Capriati, Sanchez, and Hingis. None of them would have more than maybe 1 slam title without the Seles stabbing.

Capriati didn't win her first slam until 2001. It's extremely unlikely that Seles would still be dominating at this point, be realistic.
Hingis was 15-5 against Seles. You can't simply brush that aside and say she was stabbed, Hingis was simply a bad matchup for Seles. Therefore dismissing Hingis's slams is foolish.
As for Sanchez, she remains an underrated player who deserved her 4 slams. Seles was a bad matchup for her certainly, but I think it's unfair to say her slams aren't legit when she was a highly talented player. Remember she beat Monica in the 1998 final, and Monica had other issues by this point, primarily the tragic death of her dad, and she had been back on tour for 3 years at this point so it's a bit convenient just to say 'she was stabbed'. Plus the 1994 French, Pierce was on fire in the semis against Graf and if Monica had been the top seed and met her, I would still give the edge to Pierce. Thus Arantxa still gets her win.
I like Monica a lot, I think she seems like a very nice person and was certainly a great player, so I don't want to seem like I don't like her because I certainly do. But Jules you do tend to exaggerate a tad.

julesb
04-24-2009, 01:53 PM
I am not saying Seles would have dominated until her retirement. She would have dominated until 1997 or 1998. Until 2002 she would have been a contender for slams but not the dominant player any longer. Still firmly established as the female GOAT by now mind you.

I do not think Seles would have denied Davenport, Venus, or Serena any of their slams for example. As you said by that point Seles would be no longer "dominant" by the time they all began winning their slams in late 1998 and those 3 players have the type of games to take down Seles on their favorite surfaces as well. The Williams also did not start becoming out of shape uncommited players winning by luck and weak competition yet when Seles retired from tennis, that is what they are now but that is another topic altogether. I also dont neccessarily think Seles would have denied Pierce either of her slams. Pierce is like Safin, the once in the blue moon she is in the zone she can be unbeatable, she would have won the 94 French Open instead of lucky Sanchez without the rain delay with turned her into a totally different player once they returned as well. Sanchez and Hingis are totally different though. Sanchez and Hingis won most of their slams during the time period Seles's dominance would have extended towards, and unlike Davenport and the Williams they dont have the games to take down a normal Seles anyway. By the time Capriati won her slams as late as 2001 and 2002, the only ones Seles would win by this point were ones left open by softer draws, such as the ones a fluke like Capriati won by luck. Capriati was having trouble with Seles in the early 2000s even as it was.

Hingis is only a bad matchup for an out of shape Seles not moving well. The 1998 French Open, the only time she played a fit Seles, shows the kind of matchup she is to a fit Seles. Granted Hingis is a much better player on hard courts than clay but still wouldnt make enough difference I dont think.

grafselesfan
05-24-2009, 07:22 PM
Of the players who won only 3 slam titles from best to worst:

1. Ann Jones- she was an awesome player, won her slams the hardest way. Surprising she retired right after reaching her absolute peak, beating Court and King back to back to win Wimbledon. She might have had a real shot at the U.S Open that year atleast.

2. Lindsay Davenport- great player who had alot of bad luck to not win more than 3 majors, including some untimely injuries, chokes, rain delays.

3. Maria Sharapova- I dont like her but she has 3 different slams by 21 already, and she is an incredibly consistent performer when healthy. She won her slams beating high quality opponents.

4. Virginia Wade- won 3 slams vs tough field but really was owned by nearly all the more accomplished players of her own time. Didnt win her slams as impressively as Jones did, sort of picked her spots well. 1968 U.S Open Court wasnt back in top form after return to tour yet, Bueno was old, King wasnt in form that event. 1977 Wimbledon Goolagong was taking a year off, King was old and Evert took her out anyway, Court was nearly retired, Navratilova wasnt primed yet, and Evert was out of sorts in their semi. 1972 Australian she beat Goolagong and hardly anyone else of note showed. Still impressive but less than Jones.

5. Lesley Turner- won 1 of her slams at a weak field Australian Open. 2 Frenches won by beating some good opponents. Was a very good clay courter, who was pretty good but not as much a threat on grass or other surfaces.

6. Jennifer Capriati- by far the worst. So lucky to ever get 3 slams. Didnt deserve more than maybe 1 really. Many better players than her have only 1 slam title.

Warriorroger
05-24-2009, 11:55 PM
I'd rather be a weaker player with three slams, than a strong player with no slams.

some6uy008
05-25-2009, 12:19 AM
I'd rather be a weaker player with three slams, than a strong player with no slams.

Well said, and 100% agreed!

Tennisfan!
05-25-2009, 06:17 AM
None, if she won three slams how can she be "weak"? No no

jaggy
05-25-2009, 06:21 AM
I just hate Wade's voice, cant say i knew her game