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View Full Version : ranked junior self rated 4.0 - is this legit?


GeoffB
04-27-2009, 10:03 PM
I just played a pretty great match that I lost 6-1, 6-1. The match lasted about an hour and 45 minutes. I definitely played some good tennis, and I really enjoyed the match. I had my chances, but just couldn't convert. The dude was a smokin' 4.0, and he's clearly going to rip through the league.

He was self rated at the 4.0 level, but players this good don't just come out of nowhere, so I googled his name and discovered he'd been ranked in the top 40 in the under 18 juniors in norcal. This was a while ago - he's at most 31 yo now (based on the year he was ranked).

Is he obligated to self-rate 4.5 or higher?

BTW, I'm not actually going to bother with a grievance. My team isn't much of a postseason candidate anyway, and I kind of enjoyed the challenge. But I am curious about the self-rating rules for a ranked junior. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets 3-strikes later in the season either - his first two matches have been serious beatdowns.

Topaz
04-28-2009, 04:08 AM
Yes, based on his age and former ranking, he should be self-rating no *lower* than 4.5.

See here:

http://dps.usta.com/usta_master/usta/doc/content/doc_13_7372.pdf?12/6/20044:12:22PM

While you don't feel the need to file a grievance, you might at least want to mention it to this guy...and maybe ask why he wants to play at a level where he is not competitive? Others that he face may not be as indifferent as you, and he may end up getting bumped. It is possible that he just didn't know...so again, if there is a way to even email that link to him, might not be a bad idea.

GeoffB
04-28-2009, 06:25 AM
Yes, based on his age and former ranking, he should be self-rating no *lower* than 4.5.

See here:

http://dps.usta.com/usta_master/usta/doc/content/doc_13_7372.pdf?12/6/20044:12:22PM

While you don't feel the need to file a grievance, you might at least want to mention it to this guy...and maybe ask why he wants to play at a level where he is not competitive? Others that he face may not be as indifferent as you, and he may end up getting bumped. It is possible that he just didn't know...so again, if there is a way to even email that link to him, might not be a bad idea.

Thanks for the link. I checked it out, and the situation seems a little ambiguous. It looks like a 31 yo former junior in the top 150 national or top 20 sectional would be obligated to self-rate 5.0+. Below that, it says former juniors who had national rankings but did not play in college have to self-rate 4.5+...

Thing is, this dude had a top 40 sectional ranking... and that case seems to have slipped through the cracks. It's not top 20, so case #1 doesn't apply, and it's sectional rather than national, so case #2 doesn't apply either. So while it definitely seems like a former top 40 Junior 18 should be self-rating higher than 4.0 (and he sure plays like a 4.5+), I think that technically, he's not covered by any rule!

Vik
04-28-2009, 06:46 AM
He looks to have self-rated properly, technically.

Should be 4.5 but lots of ways to slip through the cracks on self-rate.

ronray43
04-28-2009, 07:03 AM
I had the same thing happen this weekend. Got slammed 6-0, 6-1 by a guy less than half my age. Turned out he was the #1 ranked 18-yr old junior in the Northern Section in 2003. He had the gall to play 3.5 in 2005 and got DQ'd. He's 11-0 in singles this year at 4.0. USTA says he's where he should be--NTRP's obvioulsy broke, and no one with the power to change it seems to care.

Cheers,
Ron

goober
05-02-2009, 02:38 PM
Thanks for the link. I checked it out, and the situation seems a little ambiguous. It looks like a 31 yo former junior in the top 150 national or top 20 sectional would be obligated to self-rate 5.0+. Below that, it says former juniors who had national rankings but did not play in college have to self-rate 4.5+...

Thing is, this dude had a top 40 sectional ranking... and that case seems to have slipped through the cracks. It's not top 20, so case #1 doesn't apply, and it's sectional rather than national, so case #2 doesn't apply either. So while it definitely seems like a former top 40 Junior 18 should be self-rating higher than 4.0 (and he sure plays like a 4.5+), I think that technically, he's not covered by any rule!

You are correct. He did not violate the self rating rules. I assume he did not play college tennis since you didn't mention it. Top 40 in a section and he is now in his 30s is definitely not an automatic 4.5 rating by any means. I have played two guys that had higher sectional rankings than 40 as juniors and then started to play tennis again in their 30s after a long lay off. They were at best 4.0s when they started, one of them probably was a 3.5. One to two years later they both are still playing 4.0s with average records (around .500). If he dominates he will get DQ'ed or at worse, moved up at the end of the year.

max8176
05-04-2009, 12:17 AM
I just played a pretty great match that I lost 6-1, 6-1. The match lasted about an hour and 45 minutes. I definitely played some good tennis, and I really enjoyed the match. I had my chances, but just couldn't convert. The dude was a smokin' 4.0, and he's clearly going to rip through the league.

He was self rated at the 4.0 level, but players this good don't just come out of nowhere, so I googled his name and discovered he'd been ranked in the top 40 in the under 18 juniors in norcal. This was a while ago - he's at most 31 yo now (based on the year he was ranked).

Is he obligated to self-rate 4.5 or higher?

BTW, I'm not actually going to bother with a grievance. My team isn't much of a postseason candidate anyway, and I kind of enjoyed the challenge. But I am curious about the self-rating rules for a ranked junior. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets 3-strikes later in the season either - his first two matches have been serious beatdowns.

Hey I know who you talking about!
I know you are a pretty good singles player and losing to him by that score is surprising. Unfortunately he did nothing wrong by self-rating at 4.0 level because he is only top 40 sectional. Anyway, he also played in the 4.5 and he has a win at that level so there is a good chance he might get DQ if he keeps winning big in 4.0 and wining more in 4.5. However, since you have a 3.5 rating he is supposedly to beat you with that score although I think you are not 3.5.

GeoffB
05-04-2009, 09:47 AM
Hey I know who you talking about!
I know you are a pretty good singles player and losing to him by that score is surprising. Unfortunately he did nothing wrong by self-rating at 4.0 level because he is only top 40 sectional. Anyway, he also played in the 4.5 and he has a win at that level so there is a good chance he might get DQ if he keeps winning big in 4.0 and wining more in 4.5. However, since you have a 3.5 rating he is supposedly to beat you with that score although I think you are not 3.5.

Thanks for the support ;) It was "closer than it sounds", but you know, is that ever really true? He stayed tough on the big points, and that's definitely an important part of winning.

That said, I was really posting out of curiosity about the self-rating. This dude is definitely good, but top 4.0s can be really good players, so I'm not sure he's quite out of range. A guy in the other 4.0 league won - get this - *two* 5.0 tournaments this year! That gives you a sense of what you better be ready for if you have post-season plans.

max8176
05-04-2009, 09:11 PM
I know who are you talking about too on the other team. The two tournaments that he won is against 4.5 players though. I played him last year in doubles and he and his partner lost to us 7-6, 6-0. Even though we have a good chance to win, my partner and I thought they tanked the match so he could have his 4.0 rating.

Orion
05-10-2009, 10:01 PM
I know who are you talking about too on the other team. The two tournaments that he won is against 4.5 players though. I played him last year in doubles and he and his partner lost to us 7-6, 6-0. Even though we have a good chance to win, my partner and I thought they tanked the match so he could have his 4.0 rating.

You're probably spot on...close first set, and tank the 2nd. Sounds like somebody that doesn't wanna move up.