PDA

View Full Version : One of your players gives away the lineup to the other team....


JavierLW
05-02-2009, 05:11 PM
How do some of you captains feel about if your players give away your lineup to the opposing team?

How about if it's even something that's small like if they are playing or not or what position they are playing?

SJS
05-02-2009, 05:30 PM
If a player deliberately told the opposing team the entire line-up, I would definitely not be happy and would have a talk with that player to find out why.
But if they simply let slip they were playing it would be no big deal. As for telling what line they're playing, my players don't know where they are playing until after I exchange the line-ups and tell them what court to go to. When I send out who's playing I designate partnerships and who's playing singles but it's in no particular order.

Cindysphinx
05-02-2009, 06:16 PM
Did this really happen, or is this a hypothetical question?

OrangePower
05-02-2009, 07:16 PM
If a player deliberately told the opposing team the entire line-up, I would definitely not be happy and would have a talk with that player to find out why.
But if they simply let slip they were playing it would be no big deal. As for telling what line they're playing, my players don't know where they are playing until after I exchange the line-ups and tell them what court to go to. When I send out who's playing I designate partnerships and who's playing singles but it's in no particular order.

I'm with SJS on this one. In my area, lots of us play and socialize with players that are on competing teams, so someone might mention that they are playing a match on the weekend, or let slip who they are partnering with, etc. No big deal. But if someone divulges the whole lineup for example, then it's a deliberate act of sabotage, and we'd take issue with that. So I guess part of it is determining whether there was intent to harm or not.

Jim A
05-02-2009, 09:17 PM
probably not like it if it were one of our 2-3 tough matches, a little less peeved with the other 6

I just iterate to everyone if people ask we don't have a set lineup, I may typically play 1/2 singles but could just as easily be @ #3 doubles depending on the whims of the co-captain

abbeytxs
05-04-2009, 05:40 AM
Some captains take this VERY seriously!!
My first season on a new team and I found out I was going to be partnered with a woman who has an awesome game. I was excited to get to play with her and was hoping to pick up some of her court wisdom. She has been playing longer than I have been alive, and just has the most incredible court sense.
I mentioned to another friend that I was going to get to partner with Player A on the weekend. I never said which line we were playing or named any of the other players. Friend calls Player A and mentions that I told her we were going to be partners. Player A calls our captain and told her that I had blabbed who I was playing with. Then both Player A and the captain sent me very long, very explicit emails about what a dunce I had been for saying anything about the line up and that if I ever did it again, I was off the team.
I apologized profusely and played like utter crap during our match.

JavierLW
05-04-2009, 09:05 AM
Some captains take this VERY seriously!!
My first season on a new team and I found out I was going to be partnered with a woman who has an awesome game. I was excited to get to play with her and was hoping to pick up some of her court wisdom. She has been playing longer than I have been alive, and just has the most incredible court sense.
I mentioned to another friend that I was going to get to partner with Player A on the weekend. I never said which line we were playing or named any of the other players. Friend calls Player A and mentions that I told her we were going to be partners. Player A calls our captain and told her that I had blabbed who I was playing with. Then both Player A and the captain sent me very long, very explicit emails about what a dunce I had been for saying anything about the line up and that if I ever did it again, I was off the team.
I apologized profusely and played like utter crap during our match.

Well I dont think they shouldnt of called you a dunce, that's not really fair.

I think it would of been fair for them though to just specify how they feel about it so you know where they are coming from. (if they can do that without making you feel any worse or better about it)

In my case it was just a guy who admits that when someone asks him a question he cant lie. So rather than say what I would say, "you'll see when you get there", he instead told the guy he was playing.

But he's also a braggart and likes to talk trash to people so my fear is he's probably saying what line he's playing, etc..... Where as most of our team does not operate that way, we dont want to rile people up when they play us. (sort of like how in the pros they say not to make bulletin board material for the other team)

Im not interested in making him look bad or demeaning him, but Im just interested in not having the other team find out my lineup, so I guess I will just have to either not play him or not tell him until the very last minute that he's playing. (and have a sub available in case he decides not to play)

Ive played other teams where players (who dont care about the whole 'team' aspect but are just there to play tennis) have called me and given me their entire lineup, that's always nice.

But for the most part my team is not like that because most of us get along really well and we like it when the team does good. We dont have 8+ 4.0 players on our 3.5 team, but instead have a varying degree of talent so if we're playing someone who knows us pretty well and pays attention it's easy to create matchup problems if they know who's out there.

For example this guy is someone who in singles can beat everyone but 3 players on the team that we happened to play. If they know for sure he's playing #2 Singles then they likely wont make the mistake of putting anyone but those 3 guys there. Plus most of those guys hate playing him so they'll want to avoid that line. (he's like a mega-ultra pusher who can beat almost any real 3.5 singles player except for the ones who are almost 4.0 players)

I think for any team trying to take first or 2nd or 3rd even it is a big deal. Especially if you happen to be playing a team that pays attention (and not a "for fun" team which made it's lineup before the season started).

All the captain can really do is consider who the other team may put out there and try to make matchup issues for that match to give us a edge. If you know who's out there that makes a HUGE difference.

It was an extra big deal as well because it was a team that we have a pretty good rivalry with because it's full of friends, ex-teammates, and other notable players. We're not even scheduled to play this season but we're making up our own match between us before the real season starts (only with a 3S/4D format).

I could see where you are coming from though and some players may just not have thought about it and they let something slip. I dont have a problem with that, as long as they can respect our viewpoint on it in the future.

raiden031
05-04-2009, 09:09 AM
I mentioned to another friend that I was going to get to partner with Player A on the weekend. I never said which line we were playing or named any of the other players. Friend calls Player A and mentions that I told her we were going to be partners. Player A calls our captain and told her that I had blabbed who I was playing with. Then both Player A and the captain sent me very long, very explicit emails about what a dunce I had been for saying anything about the line up and that if I ever did it again, I was off the team.
I apologized profusely and played like utter crap during our match.

Captain is lame.
Player A is extremely lame.

cak
05-04-2009, 02:33 PM
Our captains, in general, don't share the lineup order with their players until they show up. So they couldn't divulge position anyway.

sureshs
05-04-2009, 02:38 PM
Some captains take this VERY seriously!!
My first season on a new team and I found out I was going to be partnered with a woman who has an awesome game. I was excited to get to play with her and was hoping to pick up some of her court wisdom. She has been playing longer than I have been alive, and just has the most incredible court sense.
I mentioned to another friend that I was going to get to partner with Player A on the weekend. I never said which line we were playing or named any of the other players. Friend calls Player A and mentions that I told her we were going to be partners. Player A calls our captain and told her that I had blabbed who I was playing with. Then both Player A and the captain sent me very long, very explicit emails about what a dunce I had been for saying anything about the line up and that if I ever did it again, I was off the team.
I apologized profusely and played like utter crap during our match.

Confirms the impressions of politics in women's leagues that we hear plenty around here ...

jefferson
05-04-2009, 02:39 PM
There is no reason that I can see to give out your line up prior to the line up swap. Nothing good can come out of it. You want the opposing captian making his best line up, not his best line up against your line up!! There is a huge difference. Stacking happens on every level that I have played.

abbeytxs
05-04-2009, 03:07 PM
Confirms the impressions of politics in women's leagues that we hear plenty around here ...

Its like anything, there is just as much good as there is bad. I've had captains who were just fantastic. I've had team mates and opponents who couldn't have been any nicer. I have also had some captains that were totally nuts and I have played with and against some women who were utter embarrassments.

Like in all things, you tend to hear more about the bad than the good.

By far, the worst captain I ever dealt with was a male captain for a 7.0 mixed doubles team. He lied, cheated, encouraged the worst kind of gamesmanship from his players and he treated his players like dirt.

abbeytxs
05-04-2009, 03:10 PM
Captain is lame.
Player A is extremely lame.

Honestly, I was more ticked off at the friend who called Player A. She had no connection to anyone involved and I never could figure out why she went out of her way to call.

Everyone gets their knickers twisted about something, I guess this is what did it for this player and captain. I've moved on.

volleyman
05-04-2009, 05:10 PM
As captain, I've set the expectation on my team that everybody can expect to play at any position in the lineup, so just show up mentally prepared. I generally don't let out who's playing with whom and where until we're on site for the match. Occasionally, I'll tell some folks I'm planning to play them as a doubles team. But I never tell them which line.

So I never worry about this. :-)

Hokiez
05-04-2009, 06:04 PM
Jesus, do people have so little in their lives that they take this as life or death? I really couldn't care less if someone gave away our line-up. It's rec tennis for crying out loud. Go out, have fun, get some exercise, meat some people and hopefully have a good match. I'm always amazed how seriously people take USTA leagues. How crappy is Player A and the captain. I'd look for another team.

JavierLW
05-05-2009, 10:27 AM
There is no reason that I can see to give out your line up prior to the line up swap. Nothing good can come out of it. You want the opposing captian making his best line up, not his best line up against your line up!! There is a huge difference. Stacking happens on every level that I have played.

Right well that's the thing.

I believe that players actually perform better when they know what they are doing ahead of time and we're not scrambling around at the last minute confused about where everyone is going.

Ive been on teams that do it at the last minute though and I respect that, but my team is not like that.

It's also beneficial for doubles because if you know you are playing with someone you may want to talk to them outside of the match about strategy so when match time comes you can just focus on hitting the yellow tennis ball.

But for this guy I'll probably just deviate from that, let him know he's playing but not let him know where or who else is playing until he gets there.

kylebarendrick
05-05-2009, 10:41 AM
We have a lot of split starts - the 2nd singles line and 3rd doubles line both start at least an hour after the overall match starts. That pretty much forces me to either let people know what line they are playing ahead of time or force 3 guys to show up more than an hour before they play. I choose communication - it makes things feel more like a team anyway.

jrod
05-05-2009, 10:42 AM
I am on the email list for 2 different teams that compete throughout the year. I've had access to the lineups for both teams every week. I have never offered this information to either team, nor have I ever been asked for it.

I don't believe the players should share lineup information since it can tip the scales. Matches should be played fairly and not biased by enabling someone to act on insider information.

JRstriker12
05-05-2009, 10:43 AM
Really, I can't see any reason why a player would give out a whole line up for a match to another team.

I know it's for fun and all that, but at the same time it is competative and you are playing to win, and thus, why give the other team/player the advantage? If you are going that route, why not just start every game donw 0-15?

I'd have no problem if the player was only taking about themselves in casual conversation and let small details slip- such as -"Nah, I'm not playing this week," or "Looks like I'm playing singles at our next match." But I don't see any reason to give out the whole line-up.

JavierLW
05-05-2009, 10:54 AM
Really, I can't see any reason why a player would give out a whole line up for a match to another team.

I know it's for fun and all that, but at the same time it is competative and you are playing to win, and thus, why give the other team/player the advantage? If you are going that route, why not just start every game donw 0-15?

I'd have no problem if the player was only taking about themselves in casual conversation and let small details slip- such as -"Nah, I'm not playing this week," or "Looks like I'm playing singles at our next match." But I don't see any reason to give out the whole line-up.

It's amazing but one guy (who happens to be the captain of the other team in question) does that all the time when he's on someone else's team and they are playing my team.

Im not sure that it's really sabotage, I just think it's the case of someone who's particularly chatty and talks non-stop about everyone and everything.

And it's apparent that he really only does think about himself and has no real care for the team concept or how the rest of his players are doing.

That's really what my problem with it is, it's not some guy being devious necessarily or doing it out of spite, it's just people who dont know any better or dont care and have taken it upon themselves not to care and not respect anyone else's wishes.

JavierLW
05-05-2009, 11:02 AM
We have a lot of split starts - the 2nd singles line and 3rd doubles line both start at least an hour after the overall match starts. That pretty much forces me to either let people know what line they are playing ahead of time or force 3 guys to show up more than an hour before they play. I choose communication - it makes things feel more like a team anyway.

I think it makes us feel more like a team as well.

Usually when one match is over, that night I sent the results to the whole team (since not everyone was at the match), and then I sent the lineup for the next week.

Which means usually if there is a match this Thursday, Im actually thinking about what's going to happen in the match next week already.

Once in awhile people all the sudden say they are off though so then it kind of backfires because I have to keep rearranging the lineup, and if I had to send out 5 messages in one week that gets too confusing for people so then I just have to make do when they arrive.

jrod
05-05-2009, 11:03 AM
It's amazing but one guy (who happens to be the captain of the other team in question) does that all the time when he's on someone else's team and they are playing my team.

Im not sure that it's really sabotage, I just think it's the case of someone who's particularly chatty and talks non-stop about everyone and everything.

And it's apparent that he really only does think about himself and has no real care for the team concept or how the rest of his players are doing.

That's really what my problem with it is, it's not some guy being devious necessarily or doing it out of spite, it's just people who dont know any better or dont care and have taken it upon themselves not to care and not respect anyone else's wishes.

Simple...why not talk to him and provide him with some added perspective? Maybe he'll think about it next time around before blathering away.

JavierLW
05-05-2009, 11:07 AM
I am on the email list for 2 different teams that compete throughout the year. I've had access to the lineups for both teams every week. I have never offered this information to either team, nor have I ever been asked for it.

I don't believe the players should share lineup information since it can tip the scales. Matches should be played fairly and not biased by enabling someone to act on insider information.

Right, that's the odd thing that I felt about this guy's excuse of "well he asked me, what am I supposed to say??".

That guy wouldnt even think to ask me if I was playing or what my lineup was. It's just out of the question and it's assumed we're not going to tell him. (ie... he'll find out when we play.....)

One of the only real "team" part of these matches is the making of the lineup (other than everyone getting along and having fun after the match and celebrating when they win their pen at the end of the year).

So it doesnt make much sense to me to give anyone that info unless it's pretty clear that you're a complete "for fun" team where everyone is just there to have a place to play tennis. (they usually dont have much of a lineup anyway, they just randomly assign players or just play people where they "want to play")

JavierLW
05-05-2009, 11:10 AM
Simple...why not talk to him and provide him with some added perspective? Maybe he'll think about it next time around before blathering away.

Yes that works for most people. Apparently you've never met this guy. :-)

I know the guy and I dont trust him. For most anyone else though I would just assume it's something they just didnt think much of and they let something slip. (I certainly wouldnt call them names or give them the 3rd degree)

But this guy is extremely special.... He's going to do or say whatever, when the time comes and I doubt there is much thought involved other than that he's rationalized that whatever he does is okay (based on probably some minor thought floating thru his head at the time).

That's him though and I'll accept that, Im just going to have to work around it.

For most of the other matches it doesnt matter because he doesnt even know anyone on the other teams.

JRstriker12
05-05-2009, 11:48 AM
It's amazing but one guy (who happens to be the captain of the other team in question) does that all the time when he's on someone else's team and they are playing my team.

Im not sure that it's really sabotage, I just think it's the case of someone who's particularly chatty and talks non-stop about everyone and everything.

And it's apparent that he really only does think about himself and has no real care for the team concept or how the rest of his players are doing.

That's really what my problem with it is, it's not some guy being devious necessarily or doing it out of spite, it's just people who dont know any better or dont care and have taken it upon themselves not to care and not respect anyone else's wishes.


Wow! That's really crappy considering that he's the capt of another team. I guess you see where his loyalties lie.

I'd do my best to cut that guy out of knowing line-ups except for when he's playing. That's just not cool.

heninfan99
05-06-2009, 05:56 PM
It's either stupidity or sabotage. It would bother me greatly.