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dem331
05-10-2009, 12:37 AM
From elmundo.es (a quality Spanish newspaper)


EL NÚMERO 1, DESCONTENTO POR LA ALTURA
Nadal acoge con críticas el torneo de Madrid
Descontento por la altura de la capital, justo antes de Roland Garros
Se opone al cambio del tradicional rojo de la arcilla por el azul
Contrario a que el torneo español se convierta en un quinto Grand Slam

Vídeo: Atlas
Actualizado sábado 09/05/2009 17:22 (CET)
SEBASTIÁN FEST (DPA)
MADRID.- El día inaugural del torneo de Madrid, un 'mini Grand Slam' de corte futurista que instala al tenis en una nueva dimensión, se vio ensombrecido por las duras críticas del español Rafael Nadal. El número uno dedicó duras palabas a las condiciones de juego y a la intención de probar una pista azul que sustituya al rojo habitual de la arcilla.

"Las instalaciones bien, está todo un poco desordenado aún, creo yo. El bote de bola está complicado de momento. Ayer y hoy he entrenado fuera y la pista tenía bastantes malos botes, y si le añadimos la altura de Madrid se pone complicado jugar", dijo el español.

El intento de Madrid de crear una superficie azul que sustituya a la habitual naranja también fue criticado por el mallorquín. Los organizadores tenían la intención de jugar todo el torneo en azul, pero finalmente debieron conformarse con tener sólo una pista de entrenamiento de ese color. "Sea lo perfecta que sea y lo buena que sea yo estoy en contra totalmente", enfatizó Nadal.

"Todos podemos levantarnos bien o mal", dijo con gesto serio Manolo Santana, director del torneo, cuando se le preguntó por las palabras del número uno del mundo. La cancha central del torneo lleva el nombre de Santana, el mejor tenista español de la historia hasta la irrupción de Nadal.


Foto: Sergio Enríquez
Santana reconoció que el torneo impulsado por el rumano Ion Tiriac fracasó en su intento de dar un golpe de fuerte impacto mediático con la creación de canchas de arcilla azul que sustituyeran a la tradicional naranja. "El 'timing' no fue el correcto, nos apresuramos. Pero queremos hacerlo, Madrid siempre se destacó por ser novedoso. Yo no pienso en el pasado, pienso en el futuro".

Pero Nadal sí destaca el pasado. "La gira de tierra es histórica, la tierra es roja, no azul, el tenis no sólo es 'show-business', hay más cosas que valorar, historia y tradición. Por algo será que hay escenarios emblemáticos en el mundo del deporte que se conservan". "En mi humilde opinión la pista debería ser roja como ha sido siempre. Si ponemos cosas raras teniendo en cuenta que a la semana siguiente es Roland Garros, yo lo veo complicado. Pero sabemos que a veces hay cosas que pasan por delante de la tradición y la historia, confiemos en que esta vez no sea así".

"A mí me encantaba el torneo de Madrid como estaba antes", insistió Nadal, patrocinado por Mapfre, rival de la aseguradora Mutua Madrileña, principal 'sponsor' del torneo. Madrid se jugaba hasta 2008 en otoño y en superficie rápida. El nuevo torneo, un verdadero 'mini Grand Slam', es mucho más grande, se disputa sobre arcilla y reúne a las mejores raquetas de la ATP y la WTA.

De 2,270 millones de dólares en premios que repartía saltó a 7,2 millones. La estrella de la Caja Mágica es el estadio central con techo corredizo y capacidad para 12.000 espectadores. Hay otros dos técnicamente idénticos, con posibilidad de albergar a 3.500 y 2.500 personas. La superficie construida pasó de 30.000 metros cuadrados a 83.500.

Pese a lo impactante del escenario, a Nadal no le gusta que el torneo termine seis días antes de que comience Roland Garros, el máximo torneo sobre arcilla y uno de los cuatro de Grand Slam, en el que buscará su quinto título consecutivo. "No dudo de que las instalaciones son de las mejores que hay en el circuito, pero que el último torneo previo a Roland Garros sea en altura cambia un poco la situación. Si el último torneo fuera Roma antes de París serían condiciones más idóneas, pero hay una semana ahora antes, así que no hay problema con eso".

Nadal no se quedó allí. En la que fue la primera rueda de prensa de un jugador en la flamante Caja Mágica, un escenario clave de la candidatura de Madrid a los Juegos Olímpicos de 2016, echó por tierra cualquier posibilidad de que Madrid aspire algún día a organizar un Grand Slam. "Los Grand Slam son cuatro, ¿te parece que puedes poner cinco? Steguro que Madrid es un gran torneo, pero Roma y Montecarlo son grandes torneos también. La tradición indica que son cuatro, no cinco grandes".

Santana, que reconoció conversaciones con Roma para cambiar la fecha de Madrid, aseguró no haber comentado con Nadal las críticas que hizo al torneo, y desestimó que la altura de Madrid —unos 655 metros— sea un problema. "Hay un complejo con la altura de Madrid. Yo fui jugador y nunca me afectó. Muchos jugadores españoles ganaron el torneo de Gstaad, que se juega a 1.000 metros de altura".


Basically says he does not like:

i) The altitude (660 meters) one week before RG
ii) The attempt to move to blue clay which he considers a gimmick and against traditions
iii) The claims that it should be considered a 5th grand slam

Tournament Director Santana (who is a great friend of Nadal) admitted that there were conversations to try to swap dates with Rome.

I find it interesting that Nadal should be so open in his comments on the eve of the tournament. He was also very critical of the US when the Davis Cup was held in Madrid, although in the end it did not make much difference.

Bud
05-10-2009, 12:46 AM
From elmundo.es (to quality Spanish to newspaper)


NUMBER 1, DISPLEASED BY THE HEIGHT
Nadal welcomes with critics the match of Madrid
Displeasure by the height of the capital, just before Roland Garros
One is against to the traditional change of the red one of the clay by the blue one
In opposition to which the Spanish match becomes a fifth Grand Slam

Video: Atlas
Updated Saturday 09/05/2009 17:22 (CET)
SEBASTIÁN FEST (DPA)
MADRID. - The inaugural day of the match of Madrid, a “mini Grand Slam” of cuts futurist that installs to tennis in a new dimension, it was darkened by the hard critics of the Spanish Rafael Nadal. The hard number one dedicated palabas to the conditions of game and the intention to prove a blue track that replaces red the habitual one of the clay.

“The facilities good, are all a little disorderly still, I create I. The ball boat is complicated at the moment. I have trained yesterday and today outside and the track had enough bad boats, and if we added the height to him of Madrid puts itself complicated to play”, the Spanish said.

The attempt of Madrid to create a blue surface that also replaces the habitual orange was criticized by the Majorcan. The organizers had the intention to play all the match in blue, but finally they had to be satisfied to having only one track of training of that color. “She is the perfect thing that is and good that she is I am against totally”, emphasized Nadal.

“All we can rise badly or or”, said with serious gesture Manolo Santana, director of the match, when it was asked to him for the words of number one of the world. The central field of the match takes the name of Santana, the best Spanish tennis player of history until the irruption of Nadal.


Photo: Sergio Enríquez
Santana recognized that the match impelled by the Rumanian Ion Tiriac failed in its attempt to give to a fort blow mediatic impact with the creation of blue clay fields that replaced the traditional orange. ““Timing” was not the correct one, we hurried. But we want to do it, Madrid always stood out for being novel. I nonfodder in the past, fodder in the future”.

But Nadal yes emphasizes the past. “The earth tour is historical, the Earth is red, nonblue, tennis not only is “show-business”, is more things than to value, history and tradition. By something it will be that there are emblematic scenes in the world of the sport that are conserved”. “In my humble opinion the track would have to be red since it has been always. If we put rare things considering that to the following week is Roland Garros, see I it complicated. But we know that sometimes there are things that pass in front of the tradition and history, we trust that this time is not thus”.

“the match of Madrid enchanted to me as it were before”, Nadal, sponsored by Mapfre, rival of insuring the Mutual Madrilenian, main “sponsor” of the match insisted. Madrid gambled until 2008 in autumn and fast surface. The new match, true “a mini Grand Slam”, is much more great, it is disputed on clay and it reunites to the best rackets of the ATP and the WTA.

Of 2.270 million dollars in prizes that distributed it jumped to 7.2 million. The star of the Magical Box is the central stage with sliding ceiling and capacity for 12,000 spectators. There are other two technically identical ones, with possibility of sheltering 3,500 and 2,500 people. The constructed surface happened of 30,000 meters squared to 83.500.

In spite of the impressive thing of the scene, to Nadal it does not like that the match finishes six days before Roland Garros, the maximum match begins on clay and one of the four of Grand Slam, in which will look for his fifth consecutive title. “I do not doubt that the facilities are of the best ones than it has in the circuit, but that the last previous match to Roland Garros is in height it changes a little the situation. If the last match were Rome before Paris would be more suitable conditions, but there is one week now before, so there is no problem with that”.

Nadal did not remain there. In that it was the first press conference of a player in the flaming Magical Box, a key scene of the candidacy from Madrid to the Olympic Games of 2016, ruined any possibility that Madrid someday aspires to organize a Grand Slam. “The Grand Slam is four, it seems to you that you can put five? Steguro that Madrid is a great match, but Rome and Montecar it are great matches also. The tradition indicates that they are four, not five great ones”.

Santana, who recognized conversations with Rome to change the date of Madrid, assured to have commented with Nadal the critics that did to the match, and did not misestimate that the height of Madrid about 655 meters is a problem. “There is a complex with the height of Madrid. I was player and she never affected to me. Many Spanish players gained the match of Gstaad, that gambles 1,000 meters of height”.

Blinkism
05-10-2009, 12:50 AM
Tournament Director Santana (who is a great friend of Nadal) admitted that there were conversations to try to swap dates with Rome.



That sounds like a good idea, or swap dates with Monte Carlo, as that is (apparently) the most similar clay and conditions to the French Open's.

Blinkism
05-10-2009, 12:55 AM
But I do not agree with Nadal's complaints about Madrid's clay being blue. Professional Tennis is, first and foremost, entertainment.

Blue clay would draw in more viewers, and it'd be easier to see. Good for the fans!

maximo
05-10-2009, 12:56 AM
entertainment.

Blue clay would draw in more viewers, and it'd be easier to see. Good for the fans!

The Blue stuff, ey? :)

Underhand
05-10-2009, 12:57 AM
What about pink clay? Even more entertaining.

Bud
05-10-2009, 12:58 AM
But I do not agree with Nadal's complaints about Madrid's clay being blue. Professional Tennis is, first and foremost, entertainment.

Blue clay would draw in more viewers, and it'd be easier to see. Good for the fans!

I think Nadal states this in his comments.

Bud
05-10-2009, 12:59 AM
What about pink clay? Even more entertaining.

I think yellow clay would be really cool... with black balls :)

cucio
05-10-2009, 02:26 AM
I think yellow clay would be really cool... with black balls :)

Nah, black clay with some white pebbles here and there simulating stars and neon magenta balls. And Jedi lightsaber sound effects built in into the racquet handles. Now how cool'd be that?

Gorecki
05-10-2009, 02:32 AM
delete post

tennis-hero
05-10-2009, 02:48 AM
“the match of Madrid enchanted to me as it were before”, Nadal, sponsored by Mapfre, rival of insuring the Mutual Madrilenian, main “sponsor” of the match insisted.

remember this is the same guy who said his fave car was Kia because they sponsor him

who dresses in pink dresses if Nike commands him

who is a "created" icon

nothing like Agassi who actually did his own thing

Nadal is a advertisers dream, because he will do anything as long as someone throws money at him

aldeayeah
05-10-2009, 03:12 AM
Well actually he has an Aston Martin.

maximo
05-10-2009, 03:16 AM
who dresses in pink dresses if Nike commands him.

Nike doesn't "command" him to wear pink, He's going to wear pink because he told Nike that he likes that colour.

LurkingGod
05-10-2009, 03:18 AM
I think yellow clay would be really cool... with black balls :)

If Macdonald was the main sponsor it'd happen, with red ball and the ball girls wearing red afro wig.

tennis-hero
05-10-2009, 03:24 AM
Nike doesn't "command" him to wear pink, He's going to wear pink because he told Nike that he likes that colour.

http://www.cover-alls.ca/The%20Charity%20Fundraising%20Collection/Breast%20Cancer/BC%20GreetingCards/bc_RealMenPink.jpg

http://www.alexandchloe.com/online_shop/images/ac_eclipse_m_p_1.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_y83ikw1mFQo/R67JbnrcN7I/AAAAAAAAAAw/4BcHuijfg3w/s400/pink%2Bpuppy%2Bdog.jpg

maximo
05-10-2009, 03:32 AM
who dresses in pink dresses if Nike commands him



http://i41.tinypic.com/w2j04n.jpg

:roll:

tennis-hero
05-10-2009, 03:40 AM
In which picture does Nadal look happier :roll:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_D_iY3enC0tk/SYO72y5SepI/AAAAAAAADd0/yD-8X5ooIA0/s400/nadal.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/news/080707/nadal.jpg

pound cat
05-10-2009, 03:40 AM
so what's the matter with men wearing pink? So should women stop wearing blue because in the west blue is traditionally the colour signifying male? Really, what difference does it make who wears what?

tennis-hero
05-10-2009, 03:42 AM
so what's the matter with men wearing pink? So should women stop wearing blue because in the west blue is traditionally the colour signifying male? Really, what difference does it make who wears what?

you can have feminine blue shades

http://www.arenaflowers.com/product_image/large/7150-bush_baby_hoodie_blue.jpg

like baby blue, any woman could wear it

you cant really have masculine pinks

sh@de
05-10-2009, 04:09 AM
In which picture does Nadal look happier :roll:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_D_iY3enC0tk/SYO72y5SepI/AAAAAAAADd0/yD-8X5ooIA0/s400/nadal.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/news/080707/nadal.jpg

HAHAHAHA THE FIRST ONE THE FIRST ONEEEEE

Melissa
05-10-2009, 05:29 AM
The greatest U. S. volleyball player of all time wore pink exclusively.
The world's presently number 1 ranked tennis player wears pink.
Maybe the world's presently number 2 ranked tennis player should consider wearing pink also. Before he slides to number ......?

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 05:45 AM
But I do not agree with Nadal's complaints about Madrid's clay being blue. Professional Tennis is, first and foremost, entertainment.

Blue clay would draw in more viewers, and it'd be easier to see. Good for the fans!
Blue clay is totally revolting. There is nothing entertaining about it, it looks artificial and awful. The clay would also have to be terrible quality due to the chemical manipulations necessary to obtain the color. Clay is red and grass is green. Leave the natural surfaces alone! It's a sport not a circus.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 05:56 AM
http://i41.tinypic.com/w2j04n.jpg

:roll:
Pink looks really good on him. Tennis-hero is going on a rampage: wars, global warming and the financial crisis are all Nadal's fault. Nadal is the ultimate evil on earth :lol: Cool it man, you're going ballistic with the stuff!

thejoe
05-10-2009, 06:00 AM
I don't see the problem with wearing pink, and I'm male. It suits him.

Leonidas
05-10-2009, 06:16 AM
remember this is the same guy who said his fave car was Kia because they sponsor him

who dresses in pink dresses if Nike commands him

who is a "created" icon

nothing like Agassi who actually did his own thing

Nadal is a advertisers dream, because he will do anything as long as someone throws money at him
do you really think Nadal critisized the tournament becouse of the sponsor? if he cared about money that much, he would drive a Ferrari and would show off all the time as the stupid NBA stars do. I´m sure he doesn´t give a ***** about the sutpid insurance company

gj011
05-10-2009, 06:21 AM
But I do not agree with Nadal's complaints about Madrid's clay being blue. Professional Tennis is, first and foremost, entertainment.

Blue clay would draw in more viewers, and it'd be easier to see. Good for the fans!

Why would blue clay draw in more viewers? I don't think so. Also i don't see why it would be "good for the fans". It would not be good for me and I am a fan.

Clay is red and should stay red.

deltox
05-10-2009, 06:25 AM
do you really think Nadal critisized the tournament becouse of the sponsor? if he cared about money that much, he would drive a Ferrari and would show off all the time as the stupid NBA stars do. I´m sure he doesn´t give a ***** about the sutpid insurance company

lol nadal might have alot of money from tennis but lets not try to compare his salary to those NBA guys you speak of. its not even close, his lifetime earnings might look nice on paper but compare it to the 72 mil a year jordan made or maybe what Kobe makes now or even lebron. that comparison isnt fair.

secondly, whats he complaining about really. the height of the place on the planet. sadly, thats kinda lame, and this is the first time ive read something nadal said that was totally classless. that city cannot be held accountable for its geographic positioning.

third, whats his complaint with blue clay? he says history and tradition, then remove clay and carpet and hardcourts all together. o wait that surely wouldnt please him either.

i call and spade and spade no matter who is speaking. this is the first time ive had to call nadal out on a press conference for being obsrud. and anyone else going crazy over blue clay better realize quickly that people alot smarter than you and me have made these decisions, and they are trying to save our beloved sport. you know, the one with the worst ratings and viewer numbers on the freaking planet. let them experiement, if its helps bring in fans and tennis revenue then its good. if it doesnt then you can sit back and give all the i told you sos you want. if tradition really meant that much to anyone wimbledon wouldnt now have a roof. that should be 100345856842590 times more prevelant than blue clay.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 06:40 AM
lol nadal might have alot of money from tennis but lets not try to compare his salary to those NBA guys you speak of. its not even close, his lifetime earnings might look nice on paper but compare it to the 72 mil a year jordan made or maybe what Kobe makes now or even lebron. that comparison isnt fair.

secondly, whats he complaining about really. the height of the place on the planet. sadly, thats kinda lame, and this is the first time ive read something nadal said that was totally classless. that city cannot be held accountable for its geographic positioning.

third, whats his complaint with blue clay? he says history and tradition, then remove clay and carpet and hardcourts all together. o wait that surely wouldnt please him either.

i call and spade and spade no matter who is speaking. this is the first time ive had to call nadal out on a press conference for being obsrud. and anyone else going crazy over blue clay better realize quickly that people alot smarter than you and me have made these decisions, and they are trying to save our beloved sport. you know, the one with the worst ratings and viewer numbers on the freaking planet. let them experiement, if its helps bring in fans and tennis revenue then its good. if it doesnt then you can sit back and give all the i told you sos you want. if tradition really meant that much to anyone wimbledon wouldnt now have a roof. that should be 100345856842590 times more prevelant than blue clay.
You did not understand what Nadal complained about. He didn't complain about Madrid being the wrong altitude in general, that would be pretty stupid indeed, he said that he would have preferred a tournament like Barcelona to be the last one before RG because, due to the altitude, Madrid plays completely differently than RG and is not a good preparation for it. He suggested to switch the dates so that the last master before RG would be more similar to the way RG plays.
About blue clay, you're plain wrong. What's next, paint the grass red? It won't bring any spectators and will purely and simply ruin clay as a surface.
Finally, Nadal is totally entitled to have his opinions and express them. His opinions are at least as valid as yours (as a pro player's they're probably more valid actually). You're free to disagree but you have absolutely no business and no prerogative to "call him out on it". That is 100% out of line.

batz
05-10-2009, 06:44 AM
Blue clay is totally revolting. There is nothing entertaining about it, it looks artificial and awful. The clay would also have to be terrible quality due to the chemical manipulations necessary to obtain the color. Clay is red and grass is green. Leave the natural surfaces alone! It's a sport not a circus.


Red clay is made from crushed bricks - nothing natural about that.

That's not to say i'm a proponent of blue clay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay_court#Red_clay

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 06:50 AM
Red clay is made from crushed bricks - nothing natural about that.

That's not to say i'm a proponent of blue clay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay_court#Red_clay
More natural than dying the stuff! The players also agree that blue clay acted differently and all the ones who tried it disliked it.

deltox
05-10-2009, 07:07 AM
More natural than dying the stuff! The players also agree that blue clay acted differently and all the ones who tried it disliked it.

everyone is afraid of change, what do you think the first who played on clay or HCs said about the surface?

tennis-hero
05-10-2009, 07:32 AM
he would drive a Ferrari and would show off

http://j.bdbphotos.com/news/pictures/5L/05/14505_large.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0M_KdlZIAtk/SZK9oKe-mTI/AAAAAAAAPsI/8TDN6G4Ue-c/s400/nadal_astonmartin_2.jpg

http://************.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/nadal-gives-ivanovic-a-lift-on-a-private-plane/
The spanish are notorious cheaters

just watch football*, the mediteranean countires single handedly invented every cheating tactic that is used today
football=soccer

crazylevity
05-10-2009, 07:34 AM
Federer echoes Nadal's views:

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/268151,federer-joins-the-fray-against-madrid-blue-clay.html

tennis-hero
05-10-2009, 07:37 AM
Federer echoes Nadal's views:

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/268151,federer-joins-the-fray-against-madrid-blue-clay.html

Roger is a moron



"I only saw it when I drove past it. But we are against it, red clay is the tradition," he said in echo of Nadal's thought the day before



Whats green clay then genius?????

seriously, someone b*tchslap Rafa and Roger for their diva tantrum

deltox
05-10-2009, 07:52 AM
Roger is a moron



Whats green clay then genius?????

seriously, someone b*tchslap Rafa and Roger for their diva tantrum

the color of clay is a simple addition , there is no tradition to the color of the clay events, in actuality clay itself is gray or a shade of brown depending on where its from. (altrhough there is such a thing as red clay as well but its slick like mud) The crushed bricks used today are colored before baking the bricks just as it would be if they were blue. the paintjob has ZERO effect on the court surface. everyone just needs to takea chill pill on these court colored events. hardcourts have been painted differently, grass has been changed several times, grass is grass is grass. clay is clay is clay, hardcourts MIGHT have a slight change due to their paint but i even doubt that.

if it brings in 50,000 more viewers worldwide, can these pros not get off their "world revolves around me high horse" and have an open mind for the better interest of the game


ask yourself this, if the clay is blue would you NOT watch? nearly zero % of the viewers will boycott it, now if its blue and it gains some people or advertisers from it, which is better form tennis.

and worst case scenario, if it doesnt work out at least worth the trouble, then its a one time things that will not change the sport of tennis in any negative way, but has the potential to do good things for the game.

there is 2 views as a player and a fan.

selfish and open minded. no more, no less.

deltox
05-10-2009, 07:53 AM
More natural than dying the stuff! The players also agree that blue clay acted differently and all the ones who tried it disliked it.

it would not be dyed, research it, the colors are added before the baking process of the bricks, changing the composition of the surface none.

also in rogers article it says the players are divided. meaning some approve it.

danb
05-10-2009, 07:54 AM
In which picture does Nadal look happier :roll:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_D_iY3enC0tk/SYO72y5SepI/AAAAAAAADd0/yD-8X5ooIA0/s400/nadal.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/news/080707/nadal.jpg

First one ???!!!!!

Cesc Fabregas
05-10-2009, 07:59 AM
What the hell is the point of blue clay?

crazylevity
05-10-2009, 07:59 AM
the color of clay is a simple addition , there is no tradition to the color of the clay events, in actuality clay itself is gray or a shade of brown depending on where its from. (altrhough there is such a thing as red clay as well but its slick like mud) The crushed bricks used today are colored before baking the bricks just as it would be if they were blue. the paintjob has ZERO effect on the court surface. everyone just needs to takea chill pill on these court colored events. hardcourts have been painted differently, grass has been changed several times, grass is grass is grass. clay is clay is clay, hardcourts MIGHT have a slight change due to their paint but i even doubt that.

if it brings in 50,000 more viewers worldwide, can these pros not get off their "world revolves around me high horse" and have an open mind for the better interest of the game


ask yourself this, if the clay is blue would you NOT watch? nearly zero % of the viewers will boycott it, now if its blue and it gains some people or advertisers from it, which is better form tennis.

and worst case scenario, if it doesnt work out at least worth the trouble, then its a one time things that will not change the sport of tennis in any negative way, but has the potential to do good things for the game.

there is 2 views as a player and a fan.

selfish and open minded. no more, no less.

I think if you read the article fairly carefully, Roger does not appear to be criticizing the tournament directors for their ideas, but rather their approach. They did not consult with the ATP Executive Committee or the Player Committee.

FlamEnemY
05-10-2009, 08:02 AM
Nah, black clay with some white pebbles here and there simulating stars and neon magenta balls. And Jedi lightsaber sound effects built in into the racquet handles. Now how cool'd be that?

Played in the dark with flourescent balls? That would be so awesome, just imagine the ball buzzing around like a laser and the players hitting it :)

deltox
05-10-2009, 08:02 AM
I think if you read the article fairly carefully, Roger does not appear to be criticizing the tournament directors for their ideas, but rather their approach. They did not consult with the ATP Executive Committee or the Player Committee.

i agree with him there and im not criticizing him for that.

deltox
05-10-2009, 08:03 AM
What the hell is the point of blue clay?

1. something different (change is good)
2. the ball is supposedly more easily seen by tv viewers
3. the tourney guys wants to make their tournament stand out
4. who cares, ill watch tennis if the courts are purple with pink polka dots, wouldnt you?

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 08:06 AM
everyone is afraid of change, what do you think the first who played on clay or HCs said about the surface?
Noone wants to change (read= destroy) European clay, at least no European who really cares for the sport. This is one of the oldest surfaces and the only one that is radically different to play on from hard. You just can't touch it, it would be as taboo as to remove grass. The only thing that would do is to kill tennis as a sport by severing it entirely from its roots. Those are traditionally prestigious and historically important tournaments and surfaces. I hope there will be maximum opposition to sabotage any of them and I'm sure there will. Changing surface and venue every 5 minutes may be fine for Americans but it's totally contrary to European core values and cultural beliefs of honoring the past and maintaining meaningful traditions.

deltox
05-10-2009, 08:08 AM
Noone wants to change (read= destroy) European clay, at least no European who really cares for the sport. This is one of the oldest surfaces and the only one that is radically different to play on from hard. You just can't touch it, it would be as taboo as to remove grass. The only thing that would do is to kill tennis as a sport by severing it entirely from its roots. Those are traditionally prestigious and historically important tournaments and surfaces. I hope there will be maximum opposition to sabotage any of them and I'm sure there will. Changing surface and venue every 5 minutes may be fine for Americans but it's totally contrary to European core values and cultural beliefs of honoring the past and maintaining meaningful traditions.

if its so different in europe why did Wimbledon add a roof this year? as for European traditions causing the game to break, well why is grass so little played on tour today. change happens regardless of what the few say. clay is an older surface but why does grass, the oldest and MOST traditional surface get the fewest tourneys?

we can debate this all day long and if it were grass, carpet or HCs you would care little, but your so fascinated with your hero idol Nadal that anything he says is automatically law to you. Noone outside of Nadal super fans really cares about the change. think about it, when was the last time you disagreed with rafa even a little.

you are so consumed with your lust for Rafa and his words you even mention sabotage, are you maddened with your worship? you would wish for people to be hurt killed or jailed to protect your beloved's views?

now as for every 5 mins?? im not even gonna comment on that remark, thats just your frustration spewing.

thejoe
05-10-2009, 08:09 AM
Noone wants to change (read= destroy) European clay, at least no European who really cares for the sport. This is one of the oldest surfaces and the only one that is radically different to play on from hard. You just can't touch it, it would be as taboo as to remove grass. The only thing that would do is to kill tennis as a sport by severing it entirely from its roots. Those are traditionally prestigious and historically important tournaments and surfaces. I hope there will be maximum opposition to sabotage any of them and I'm sure there will. Changing surface and venue every 5 minutes may be fine for Americans but it's totally contrary to European core values and cultural beliefs of honoring the past and maintaining meaningful traditions.

They changed Wimbledon, and that didn't seem to bother you. Why should this?

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 08:10 AM
it would not be dyed, research it, the colors are added before the baking process of the bricks, changing the composition of the surface none.

also in rogers article it says the players are divided. meaning some approve it.
The blue clay court already exists and it does change the quality of the clay. Most players agree on that. Why would one wants to change the way clay is unless they have ulterior motives and and want to cause damage to the surface, notwithstanding the fact that it is HIDEOUS.

tennis-hero
05-10-2009, 08:12 AM
Noone wants to change (read= destroy) European clay, at least no European who really cares for the sport. This is one of the oldest surfaces and the only one that is radically different to play on from hard. You just can't touch it, it would be as taboo as to remove grass. The only thing that would do is to kill tennis as a sport by severing it entirely from its roots. Those are traditionally prestigious and historically important tournaments and surfaces. I hope there will be maximum opposition to sabotage any of them and I'm sure there will. Changing surface and venue every 5 minutes may be fine for Americans but it's totally contrary to European core values and cultural beliefs of honoring the past and maintaining meaningful traditions.

no it isn't

they just changed the color

the players are being stupid

Wimbledon got screwed over 10000000000000000 times worse!!!!!

you didn't complain then

non nonononono

but if Rafa isn't happy then you'll go crazy

Veronique you know that this is stupid

if blue clay brought in more fans then im all for it

madrid chaning to clay has no clay tradition because it was HARD COURT last year

this is a sissy fit from Roger, Rafa and Serena

i hope Novak, Andy M, Andy R and everyone else plays and supports blue clay

blue clay is still clay

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 08:16 AM
if its so different in europe why did Wimbledon add a roof this year? as for European traditions causing the game to break, well why is grass so little played on tour today. change happens regardless of what the few say. clay is an older surface but why does grass, the oldest and MOST traditional surface get the fewest tourneys?

we can debate this all day long and if it were grass, carpet or HCs you would care little, but your so fascinated with your hero idol Nadal that anything he says is automatically law to you. Noone outside of Nadal super fans really cares about the change. think about it, when was the last time you disagreed with rafa even a little.

you are so consumed with your lust for Rafa and his words you even mention sabotage, are you maddened with your worship? you would wish for people to be hurt killed or jailed to protect your beloved's views?

now as for every 5 mins?? im not even gonna comment on that remark, thats just your frustration spewing.
Lots of people care about it, I certainly do and it has nothing to do with Nadal. I feel very strongly about the issue as a fan. A roof is not the same as disfiguring a surface. When people start talking about changing the color of grass, we'll see the reactions to it.
There is another aspect to the red clay, it's the way it fits in the environment. Mediterranean countries have a lot of red brick buildings or houses. Red clay seems naturally integrated in the surroundings. Any other color will look disharmonious and fake.

deltox
05-10-2009, 08:17 AM
The blue clay court already exists and it does change the quality of the clay. Most players agree on that. Why would one wants to change the way clay is unless they have ulterior motives and and want to cause damage to the surface, notwithstanding the fact that it is HIDEOUS.

you mentioned several opinions there in that statement, nothing more. the science will be the ultimate decisive factor. in ten years noone will even remember this debate and none of todays top stars will be meaningful in present day tennis, played on blue clay and gray HCs and black carpet, who cares.

deltox
05-10-2009, 08:18 AM
Lots of people care about it, I certainly do and it has nothing to do with Nadal. I feel very strongly about the issue as a fan. A roof is not the same as disfiguring a surface. When people start talking about changing the color of grass, we'll see the reactions to it.
There is another aspect to the red clay, it's the way it fits in the environment. Mediterranean countries have a lot of red brick buildings or houses. Red clay seems naturally integrated in the surroundings. Any other color will look disharmonious and fake.

lol, your grasping at straws now.

:oops:

facts, i need facts. not whining from players, or opinions about color coordination. simple and coherent facts please.

the question i posed to you, is would you NOT watch if its blue? if your answer if yes, your fibbing, if its no, then there is NO harm in it.

also, can you show me some pics of thse brick buildings please, during my visit there 4 years ago on vacation all we saw was basically stucko*(possibly misspelled) of differing colors with one of the most prevelant being mediterranean blue, although most did have the red shingles made of a clay substance.

stormholloway
05-10-2009, 08:25 AM
third, whats his complaint with blue clay? he says history and tradition, then remove clay and carpet and hardcourts all together. o wait that surely wouldnt please him either.

i call and spade and spade no matter who is speaking. this is the first time ive had to call nadal out on a press conference for being obsrud. and anyone else going crazy over blue clay better realize quickly that people alot smarter than you and me have made these decisions, and they are trying to save our beloved sport. you know, the one with the worst ratings and viewer numbers on the freaking planet. let them experiement, if its helps bring in fans and tennis revenue then its good. if it doesnt then you can sit back and give all the i told you sos you want. if tradition really meant that much to anyone wimbledon wouldnt now have a roof. that should be 100345856842590 times more prevelant than blue clay.

Exactly. People need to let these businesses do what they do to a certain extent: bring in revenues, i.e. grow the sport.

About blue clay, you're plain wrong. What's next, paint the grass red? It won't bring any spectators and will purely and simply ruin clay as a surface.
Finally, Nadal is totally entitled to have his opinions and express them. His opinions are at least as valid as yours (as a pro player's they're probably more valid actually). You're free to disagree but you have absolutely no business and no prerogative to "call him out on it". That is 100% out of line.

It's funny when people who are wrong accuse others of being "plain wrong". You sir, don't know what you're talking about. Brick is not grass. It's artificial to begin with. Coloring crushed brick is no different than coloring a hard court in principle, and by the way: green clay already exists and plays quite well (in my opinion better than red).

How is calling him out "out of line"? What the hell are you talking about?

And your comparison to coloring grass is ridiculous. Grass is a plant. It has a natural color to it. Clay and hardcourts are artificial. There is no comparison. And there is no evidence that dying brick one color or another makes it play different, regardless of what every mental case on the ATP tour says.

the color of clay is a simple addition , there is no tradition to the color of the clay events, in actuality clay itself is gray or a shade of brown depending on where its from. (altrhough there is such a thing as red clay as well but its slick like mud) The crushed bricks used today are colored before baking the bricks just as it would be if they were blue. the paintjob has ZERO effect on the court surface. everyone just needs to takea chill pill on these court colored events. hardcourts have been painted differently, grass has been changed several times, grass is grass is grass. clay is clay is clay, hardcourts MIGHT have a slight change due to their paint but i even doubt that.

if it brings in 50,000 more viewers worldwide, can these pros not get off their "world revolves around me high horse" and have an open mind for the better interest of the game


ask yourself this, if the clay is blue would you NOT watch? nearly zero % of the viewers will boycott it, now if its blue and it gains some people or advertisers from it, which is better form tennis.

and worst case scenario, if it doesnt work out at least worth the trouble, then its a one time things that will not change the sport of tennis in any negative way, but has the potential to do good things for the game.

there is 2 views as a player and a fan.

selfish and open minded. no more, no less.

Good post. This person gets it.

stormholloway
05-10-2009, 08:30 AM
Changing surface and venue every 5 minutes may be fine for Americans but it's totally contrary to European core values and cultural beliefs of honoring the past and maintaining meaningful traditions.

Apparently not!

And what is meaningful about the tradition of the Madrid tournament? It was played on an indoor hard court last year. It has no meaningful tradition. To my knowledge, it used to be played in Stuttgart. Nobody is changing Roland Garros. This is one tournament and it stands alone. Tradition does not apply here.

FlamEnemY
05-10-2009, 08:34 AM
Changing the color shouldn't effect the quality of the court, therefore I see little to no reason not to make the clay blue. This would be quite a refreshing change - something new and interesting. This way the tournament would be easily recognized with the desire of innovations - the stadium alone is marvolous. New, unorthodox aspects of the game - be it only change of the color - will bring more fans and interest the casual TV viewer.
I think this is a great idea. For the sake of progress people need to break the well accepted rules. The worst case scenario is wasting some blue painted clay.

gj011
05-10-2009, 08:54 AM
I agree with veroniquem, Nadal and Federer. Change is not always good.
What is the point of blue clay.
And I still don`t see it how would this bring more revenue and raise audience.

deltox
05-10-2009, 08:56 AM
I agree with veroniquem, Nadal and Federer. Change is not always good.
What is the point of blue clay.
And I still don`t see it how would this bring more revenue and raise audience.

i gave you the main reasoning ive found so far, its easier to follow the yellow ball on tv and net streams when a blue background is used vs a red one. again whats the harm in trying it.

gj011
05-10-2009, 09:08 AM
i gave you the main reasoning ive found so far, its easier to follow the yellow ball on tv and net streams when a blue background is used vs a red one. again whats the harm in trying it.

There is a harm, messing with tradition and ruining the experience for faithful and dedicated fans and players as well.

Also I don`t buy that it is hard to follow the ball on clay. I have never had problems seeing the ball on red clay.
This reminds me on, when they tried that new high tech puck in NHL that glows on TV screen, since TV audience apparently had problems following the puck. Everyone hated it, especially hardcore hockey fans, it and it was quickly abandoned. I hope the same will happen with this blue clay nonsense.

egn
05-10-2009, 09:22 AM
I don't see the huge deal. If it plays like red clay what is the problem? It is not like it is har tur or something..

dem331
05-10-2009, 09:26 AM
http://j.bdbphotos.com/news/pictures/5L/05/14505_large.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0M_KdlZIAtk/SZK9oKe-mTI/AAAAAAAAPsI/8TDN6G4Ue-c/s400/nadal_astonmartin_2.jpg

http://************.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/nadal-gives-ivanovic-a-lift-on-a-private-plane/
The spanish are notorious cheaters

just watch football*, the mediteranean countires single handedly invented every cheating tactic that is used today
football=soccer


You are pathetic. There is no need to be racist. I guess that it helps you cover up your underlying insecurity.

samster
05-10-2009, 09:28 AM
In which picture does Nadal look happier :roll:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_D_iY3enC0tk/SYO72y5SepI/AAAAAAAADd0/yD-8X5ooIA0/s400/nadal.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/news/080707/nadal.jpg

The 1st one?!? :shock:

deltox
05-10-2009, 09:33 AM
There is a harm, messing with tradition and ruining the experience for faithful and dedicated fans and players as well.

Also I don`t buy that it is hard to follow the ball on clay. I have never had problems seeing the ball on red clay.
This reminds me on, when they tried that new high tech puck in NHL that glows on TV screen, since TV audience apparently had problems following the puck. Everyone hated it, especially hardcore hockey fans, it and it was quickly abandoned. I hope the same will happen with this blue clay nonsense.

again they are using science, while we are using opinions to make decisions. we can debate all day if you wish but our opinions and those of almost all "hardcore" tennis fans mean VERY little to the science and revenue of the sport.

I ask you the same quesiton i posed to veronique, would you boycott the match if its on blue clay?


to tennis fans the play means more than the court color, but to a brand new viewer who skips over it on tv while channel surfing, it may well grab their attention long enough for them to start the addiction we share.

were is the real harm in it, are you going to loose sleep?

on this thread i have given enough logical reasons for the change even if temporary, those arguing to the contrary have only offered personal feelings to back up their wishes. if this is the debate going on over blue clay, the surface will be blue next year.

Gugafan
05-10-2009, 09:36 AM
There is a harm, messing with tradition and ruining the experience for faithful and dedicated fans and players as well.

Well, Madrid is a new tournament. So any changes are going to effect all players equally. It's not as if Nadal played on the Red clay of Madrid last year, and played the tournament of his life. I would understand the annoyance of fans and players if they changed the colour of clay at RG.

djones
05-10-2009, 09:40 AM
i gave you the main reasoning ive found so far, its easier to follow the yellow ball on tv and net streams when a blue background is used vs a red one. again whats the harm in trying it.


Then they might as well play with red tennisballs at Wimbledon.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 09:40 AM
Well, Madrid is a new tournament. So any changes are going to effect all players equally. It's not as if Nadal played on the Red clay of Madrid last year, and played the tournament of his life. I would understand the annoyance of fans and players if they changed the colour of clay at RG.
Unless you want to change RG clay, which is really a disrespectful idea IMO, you can't play the last preparatory master on clay on a completely different surface. It doesn't make any kind of sense. Also European clay has always been very distinct from US clay. Tiriac is a clown, always has been and still is apparently.

thejoe
05-10-2009, 09:49 AM
Unless you want to change RG clay, which is really a disrespectful idea IMO, you can't play the last preparatory master on clay on a completely different surface. It doesn't make any kind of sense. Also European clay has always been very distinct from US clay. Tiriac is a clown, always has been and still is apparently.

But changing the Wimbledon grass was fine?

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 09:51 AM
lol, your grasping at straws now.

:oops:

facts, i need facts. not whining from players, or opinions about color coordination. simple and coherent facts please.

the question i posed to you, is would you NOT watch if its blue? if your answer if yes, your fibbing, if its no, then there is NO harm in it.

also, can you show me some pics of thse brick buildings please, during my visit there 4 years ago on vacation all we saw was basically stucko*(possibly misspelled) of differing colors with one of the most prevelant being mediterranean blue, although most did have the red shingles made of a clay substance.
The fact is THERE IS NO REASON TO CHANGE THE COLOR. If there is no good reason for doing something, then you don't do it, as simple as that. I've seen the blue court, it's beyond ugly + blue is already the color of many American courts. The reason Tiriac gives is beyond dumb. He wants the color to match THE SPONSOR color. That is beyond outrageous. What happens when the sponsor changes? They're gonna resurface everything? There's a limit to how much money is ruling the world and that's the limit right here. If the new sponsor had a zebra emblem , I don't want the courts to be revamped in BLACk AND WHITE STRIPES. I am totally revolted at the idea that some people claiming to be genuine tennis fans could find that idea even remotely acceptable. The world is greedy and brainless enough as it is.

Gugafan
05-10-2009, 09:52 AM
Unless you want to change RG clay, which is really a disrespectful idea IMO, you can't play the last preparatory master on clay on a completely different surface.

I dont think anyone would want to change RG clay...What I dont understand is how the blue clay at Madrid is a 'completely different surface'...I'm no expert, but surely changing the pigment will not induce a big difference in the playing characteristics of the surface. Any info on this would be welcome??..

FlamEnemY
05-10-2009, 09:52 AM
Unless you want to change RG clay, which is really a disrespectful idea IMO, you can't play the last preparatory master on clay on a completely different surface. It doesn't make any kind of sense. Also European clay has always been very distinct from US clay. Tiriac is a clown, always has been and still is apparently.

But how come changing the color is making the surface completely different? This is like saying a red Ferrari is different from a blue Ferrari.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 09:55 AM
But changing the Wimbledon grass was fine?
Last time I looked, the grass was still grass: it is made of little green blades that are called grass: it's not plastic or synthetic imitation grass, it's grass. That's all I'm asking for.

deltox
05-10-2009, 09:56 AM
The fact is THERE IS NO REASON TO CHANGE THE COLOR. If there is no good reason for doing something, then you don't do it, as simple as that. I've seen the blue court, it's beyond ugly + blue is already the color of many American courts. The reason Tiriac gives is beyond dumb. He wants the color to match THE SPONSOR color. That is beyond outrageous. What happens when the sponsor changes? They're gonna resurface everything? There's a limit to how much money is ruling the world and that's the limit right here. If the new sponsor had a zebra emblem , I don't want the courts to be revamped in BLACk AND WHITE STRIPES. I am totally revolted at the idea that some people claiming to be genuine tennis fans could find that idea even remotely acceptable. The world is greedy and brainless enough as it is.

its quite obvious how revolted you are, but luckily for us the tennis qorld does not play to please you. Many times when change was mentioned it was trashed by nay sayers and hated by haters but in the end it turned out to be the best thing. your lack of open mindedness is more revolting and ridiculous than any change to any event. You need to understand that you and Raf are not gonna be a pair no matter how much you worship him. you have yet to deny anything ive proven and you have yet to prove anything in itself, it is still science and trial and error vs your opinion. ill give you ten guesses which one will win out, and the first 9 dont count.

ok?

so can we pelase drop this stupidness, the ATP doesnt read these forums for advice and neither does the beloved rafa, lets enjoy tennis for the sport that it is before stick in the mud people such as yourself force it into total obscurity. far be it for some free thinker to have an idea that you disagree with right?

also, without the greed you so dubiously point out, you would have NO chance to watch this sport except in live apperances. dont be such a damn hater, geesh.

deltox
05-10-2009, 09:57 AM
Last time I looked, the grass was still grass: it is made of little green blades that are called grass: it's not plastic or synthetic imitation grass, it's grass. That's all I'm asking for.

clay will still be clay, changing the clay color is by no means any more detremental to the game than changing the breed of grass used.


everyone can see its all about what nadal thinks to you, sadly to most of us who are not nadal worshippers its apparent that your opinions are 100% biased.

deltox
05-10-2009, 09:58 AM
I dont think anyone would want to change RG clay...What I dont understand is how the blue clay at Madrid is a 'completely different surface'...I'm no expert, but surely changing the pigment will not induce a big difference in the playing characteristics of the surface. Any info on this would be welcome??..

they have none, ive been begging for the science to back up the claims for 2+ pages now, while only 2-3 on this entire thread even remotely backup this dislike for blue clay (all nadal fans or favor nadal)

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 09:59 AM
I dont think anyone would want to change RG clay...What I dont understand is how the blue clay at Madrid is a 'completely different surface'...I'm no expert, but surely changing the pigment will not induce a big difference in the playing characteristics of the surface. Any info on this would be welcome??..
Apparently it does. The justifications have to come from the people who want the change, not the opposite and so far I haven't seen any sensible justification as to why this change would be either necessary or even desirable.

icedevil0289
05-10-2009, 09:59 AM
Last time I looked, the grass was still grass: it is made of little green blades that are called grass: it's not plastic or synthetic imitation grass, it's grass. That's all I'm asking for.

well in that case, whats the difference for blue clay and red clay. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing they play the same way. Like you said about grass, clay is still clay, but different color. And as far as the grass goes in wimbledon, the grass does not play the same way it used to, so thats more of a change than changing from red clay to blue clay. So much for tradition. I don't think they should change the clay anyway, but just saying.

thejoe
05-10-2009, 10:01 AM
Last time I looked, the grass was still grass: it is made of little green blades that are called grass: it's not plastic or synthetic imitation grass, it's grass. That's all I'm asking for.

Yes, but it has changed drastically, and the style of play on it is unrecognisable. Going by that logic, they could do whatever they want to the clay, but as long as it is red crushed brick, you won't care? So, it somehow they sped it up, and serve-volley came back on clay (obviously it won't, but hypothetically) that wouldn't matter, as long as it was red?

icedevil0289
05-10-2009, 10:01 AM
they have none, ive been begging for the science to back up the claims for 2+ pages now, while only 2-3 on this entire thread even remotely backup this dislike for blue clay (all nadal fans or favor nadal)

yet they have no problem with the grass at wimbledon being slowed down, which imo, is a bigger change than changing the color of clay and then they talk about tradition.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 10:01 AM
its quite obvious how revolted you are, but luckily for us the tennis qorld does not play to please you. Many times when change was mentioned it was trashed by nay sayers and hated by haters but in the end it turned out to be the best thing. your lack of open mindedness is more revolting and ridiculous than any change to any event. You need to understand that you and Raf are not gonna be a pair no matter how much you worship him. you have yet to deny anything ive proven and you have yet to prove anything in itself, it is still science and trial and error vs your opinion. ill give you ten guesses which one will win out, and the first 9 dont count.

ok?

so can we pelase drop this stupidness, the ATP doesnt read these forums for advice and neither does the beloved rafa, lets enjoy tennis for the sport that it is before stick in the mud people such as yourself force it into total obscurity. far be it for some free thinker to have an idea that you disagree with right?

also, without the greed you so dubiously point out, you would have NO chance to watch this sport except in live apperances. dont be such a damn hater, geesh.
I'm just expressing my opinion, obviously the ATP will do what they want but I find it reassuring that the opposition will be massive as this idea has already been criticized by a lot of people.

deltox
05-10-2009, 10:02 AM
Then they might as well play with red tennisballs at Wimbledon.

id be fine with that as well, if it was helpful, which it suppose it could be. but lets start with a non slam grass event to test it, KINDA LIKE MADRID IS WANTING TO DO!!!!

i have actually played with orange tennis balls before on an indoor carpet court to improve visibility (the carpet was a yellowish green for some reason), it was NO DIFFERENT!!!

maximo
05-10-2009, 10:02 AM
Unless you want to change RG clay, which is really a disrespectful idea IMO, you can't play the last preparatory master on clay on a completely different surface. It doesn't make any kind of sense. Also European clay has always been very distinct from US clay. Tiriac is a clown, always has been and still is apparently.

la couleur de terre battue ne change pas grand chose.

deltox
05-10-2009, 10:03 AM
I'm just expressing my opinion, obviously the ATP will do what they want but I find it reassuring that the opposition will be massive as this idea has already been criticized by a lot of people.


shurg, its their burden to bare.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 10:04 AM
well in that case, whats the difference for blue clay and red clay. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing they play the same way. Like you said about grass, clay is still clay, but different color. And as far as the grass goes in wimbledon, the grass does not play the same way it used to, so thats more of a change than changing from red clay to blue clay. So much for tradition. I don't think they should change the clay anyway, but just saying.
The colour takes a different process and the players have already said it doesn't play the same. It looks bad, it is less good quality. I have no idea why anyone would defend it.

deltox
05-10-2009, 10:04 AM
Apparently it does. The justifications have to come from the people who want the change, not the opposite and so far I haven't seen any sensible justification as to why this change would be either necessary or even desirable.

one scientific link please, player and fans opinions do not count here. we all know how supersticious* they can be.

deltox
05-10-2009, 10:06 AM
The colour takes a different process and the players have already said it doesn't play the same. It looks bad, it is less good quality. I have no idea why anyone would defend it.

because we want to see our beloved sport grow, not continue to fade away. watch what you wish for, in the coming years if something doesnt change, youll only have TV coverage of slams and possibly the year end. fewer and fewer tourneys are being televised as time goes on. its time to make a change in some way or loose our sport forever. why is this still a tough decision for you?

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 10:06 AM
la couleur de terre battue ne change pas grand chose.
Ce n'est pas vrai parce que la pigmentation est obtenue avec differents materiaux. De toute facon l'idee est esthetiquement absurde et motivee par l'appat du gain, pas le desir d'ameliorer la qualite du sport donc pour moi a rejeter vigoureusement.

tennis-hero
05-10-2009, 10:07 AM
You are pathetic. There is no need to be racist. I guess that it helps you cover up your underlying insecurity.

who's insecure

3 of the 4 in the Champions league semis were from england

its common knowledge that spanish and italian football allows cheating as a legitimate tactic

its in their nature

and as much as i love C.Ron, he's a cheater

deltox
05-10-2009, 10:07 AM
The colour takes a different process and the players have already said it doesn't play the same. It looks bad, it is less good quality. I have no idea why anyone would defend it.

explain this different process please.

its the dry chemical is introduced with the same molecular makeup except one pigment for color then baked to harden then crushed, how can it be so different? you lack logic in your argument.

thejoe
05-10-2009, 10:09 AM
^Plus, I doubt it will be as drastic as the change seen at Wimbledon, but you don't see her whinging about that. I wonder why...

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 10:10 AM
because we want to see our beloved sport grow, not continue to fade away. watch what you wish for, in the coming years if something doesnt change, youll only have TV coverage of slams and possibly the year end. fewer and fewer tourneys are being televised as time goes on. its time to make a change in some way or loose our sport forever. why is this still a tough decision for you?
Blue clay is not gonna make the sport grow in any way. Are you aware of the word "demagogy"? Why not put acrobats and jugglers doing tricks on the court during the side change? Anyway this change is NOT proposed for the sake of either the fans or the players. It's proposed for strictly business issues, it's of the same line of thought as putting big sponsor emblems in the middle of the net. No good for the sport can stem from that.

deltox
05-10-2009, 10:10 AM
^Plus, I doubt it will be as drastic as the change seen at Wimbledon, but you don't see her whinging about that. I wonder why...

its super clear to everyone here where her motives lie. thus making 99% of all her posts without merit.

deltox
05-10-2009, 10:11 AM
Blue clay is not gonna make the sport grow in any way. Are you aware of the word "demagogy"? Why not put acrobats and jugglers doing tricks on the court during the side change? Anyway this changed is NOT proposed for the sake of either the fans or the players. It's proposed for strictly business issues, it's of the same line of thought as putting big sponsor emblems in the middle of the net. No good for the sport can stem from that.

i say again, it was supposed to and proven to be more visible for TV viewers. prove that statement wrong or you have no grounds for this statement above.

also those horrible business issues you speak of is why, yet again i repeat myself, you can watch this sport on television or net streams.

Nadal_Freak
05-10-2009, 10:11 AM
Plus the blue clay looks ugly. Have you seen pictures of it? Uh

deltox
05-10-2009, 10:13 AM
Plus the blue clay looks ugly. Have you seen pictures of it? Uh

you couldnt have had better timing with your chime in, rofl.

can someone other than a nadal fan please rebuke this idea on this thread today?

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 10:15 AM
^Plus, I doubt it will be as drastic as the change seen at Wimbledon, but you don't see her whinging about that. I wonder why...
Please give me a detailed explanation of how the "old" grass is different from the "new" grass because I can't SEE any difference in it. As I said it's little green soft blades and noone has painted it or used chemicals on it. It's grass.

icedevil0289
05-10-2009, 10:16 AM
There is a harm, messing with tradition and ruining the experience for faithful and dedicated fans and players as well.

Also I don`t buy that it is hard to follow the ball on clay. I have never had problems seeing the ball on red clay.
This reminds me on, when they tried that new high tech puck in NHL that glows on TV screen, since TV audience apparently had problems following the puck. Everyone hated it, especially hardcore hockey fans, it and it was quickly abandoned. I hope the same will happen with this blue clay nonsense.

tradition? Messing with the wimbly grass and slowing it down was not messing with tradition and the fans of s&v tennis?

deltox
05-10-2009, 10:17 AM
Please give me a detailed explanation of how the "old" grass is different from the "new" grass because I can't SEE any difference in it. As I said it's little green soft blades and noone has painted it or used chemicals on it. It's grass.

grass comes in different breeds, do a google search or wikipedia. some breeds are more dry and if you run your hands thru them it will literally cut your skin, others are smooth and the opposite will happen to your hand when you run thru it.


well, this conversation/debate is getting boring as its only with a few boased fans. wmaybe you guys will have better luck then I at convincing the haters to give it a simple chance. nothing more than a chance.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 10:17 AM
i say again, it was supposed to and proven to be more visible for TV viewers. prove that statement wrong or you have no grounds for this statement above.

also those horrible business issues you speak of is why, yet again i repeat myself, you can watch this sport on television or net streams.
TVs are gonna all become high definition. There is 0 problem to see the ball with current TV technology. Totally lame argument.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 10:17 AM
grass comes in different breeds, do a google search or wikipedia. some breeds are more dry and if you run your hands thru them it will literally cut your skin, others are smooth and the opposite will happen to your hand when you run thru it.
Yes and the different breeds are still all grass and look exactly similar.

Nadal_Freak
05-10-2009, 10:18 AM
The fact is they shouldn't change the color of clay. Red, orange, and yellow are all fine colors. The Har-Tru is fine as well as that is pretty natural coloring.

Nadal_Freak
05-10-2009, 10:19 AM
Vamos Rafa and down with Tiriac.

deltox
05-10-2009, 10:19 AM
Yes and the different breeds are still all grass and look exactly similar.

look does not = feel and grip of the grass. are you seriously stooping this low to argue with baseless sentences? have a nice day, i cannot get inot this any deeper with you, but your local community college can help you with this matter further.

thejoe
05-10-2009, 10:20 AM
Please give me a detailed explanation of how the "old" grass is different from the "new" grass because I can't SEE any difference in it. As I said it's little green soft blades and noone has painted it or used chemicals on it. It's grass.

Right, but they have changed the way it plays by changing the way it is packed down (I think Agassi has commented on it at length). I'm not disputing the surface aesthetics, I'm disputing the change in the way it plays. The colour is irrelevant. The problem I have is that you are worrying about the ways in which the surface will play differently, and then you ignore the obvious change in play at Wimbledon. If the surface plays the same, why are you complaining about the colour? It doesn't matter.

Nadal_Freak
05-10-2009, 10:20 AM
Btw players seeing the ball earlier helps the attacking players. They are able to hit the ball on the rise easier and pressure the grinders. So there is definitely a different feel with changing colors. Maybe not the actual bounce but the way they play.

deltox
05-10-2009, 10:21 AM
The fact is they shouldn't change the color of clay. Red, orange, and yellow are all fine colors. The Har-Tru is fine as well as that is pretty natural coloring.

read this thread entirely please. would you as a tennis fan rather watch blue clay matches once per year, or loose televised matches per year. of course this is stretching the facts by a great extent, but until its tried who really knows. check the nielsen ratings over the past decade or so, were loosing this sport entirely.

League time, have fun with this debate.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 10:21 AM
Plus the blue clay looks ugly. Have you seen pictures of it? Uh
I have seen it. It's abominable in every respect.

maximo
05-10-2009, 10:21 AM
Ce n'est pas vrai parce que la pigmentation est obtenue avec differents materiaux. De toute facon l'idee est esthetiquement absurde et motivee par l'appat du gain, pas le desir d'ameliorer la qualite du sport donc pour moi a rejeter vigoureusement.

j'en suis persuade que ca change rien...

gj011
05-10-2009, 10:26 AM
because we want to see our beloved sport grow, not continue to fade away. watch what you wish for, in the coming years if something doesnt change, youll only have TV coverage of slams and possibly the year end. fewer and fewer tourneys are being televised as time goes on. its time to make a change in some way or loose our sport forever. why is this still a tough decision for you?

I don`t think this is true. Tennis is losing popularity in US, mainly because of lack of top US player, but not in the rest of the world. So I don`t think any big change is needed, especially I don`t think blue clay would make any difference in that respect.
Change not always means something will be better, so you should also watch what you wish for, because due to changes tennis might lose lots of current fans.
For example, what they did to doubles, with stupid new scoring rules is ridiculous and completely ruined the game.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 10:26 AM
you couldnt have had better timing with your chime in, rofl.

can someone other than a nadal fan please rebuke this idea on this thread today?
Can someone other than a Nadal hater harass me to no end over the issue? You have your opinion, I have mine. Stop trying to terrorize me into changing it because I won't and get off my back. You like the idea of multicolored clay courts, I don't. We have each expressed our reasons why, let's leave it at that and see what happens.

TheTruth
05-10-2009, 10:26 AM
You did not understand what Nadal complained about. He didn't complain about Madrid being the wrong altitude in general, that would be pretty stupid indeed, he said that he would have preferred a tournament like Barcelona to be the last one before RG because, due to the altitude, Madrid plays completely differently than RG and is not a good preparation for it. He suggested to switch the dates so that the last master before RG would be more similar to the way RG plays.
About blue clay, you're plain wrong. What's next, paint the grass red? It won't bring any spectators and will purely and simply ruin clay as a surface.
Finally, Nadal is totally entitled to have his opinions and express them. His opinions are at least as valid as yours (as a pro player's they're probably more valid actually). You're free to disagree but you have absolutely no business and no prerogative to "call him out on it". That is 100% out of line.

Great post! That's the way I read it too.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 10:28 AM
I don`t think this is true. Tennis is losing popularity in US, mainly because of lack of top US player, but not in the rest of the world. So I don`t think any big change is needed, especially I don`t think blue clay would make any difference in that respect.
Change not always means something will be better, so you should also watch what you wish for, because due to changes tennis might lose lots of current fans.
For example, what they did to doubles, with stupid new scoring rules is ridiculous and completely ruined the game.
So true, I dislike the new rules in doubles as well and I don't see that it has made the doubles any more popular with the masses.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 10:29 AM
Great post! That's the way I read it too.
You're back! I'm so happy, I've missed you a lot :)

sureshs
05-10-2009, 10:31 AM
The hard number one

These auto translations are hilarious

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 10:35 AM
j'en suis persuade que ca change rien...
Est-ce que tu es Europeen? Tu as vu le court bleu? J'aime la coherence dans la terre battue en Europe. Si tu commences a creer des divisions, tu mets en danger l'avenir de la surface en general. Je n'ai pas envie qu'elle se retrouve reduite a 2 tournois par an comme l'herbe. Tu connais l'expression: "diviser pour mieux regner"?

djones
05-10-2009, 10:36 AM
who's insecure

3 of the 4 in the Champions league semis were from england

its common knowledge that spanish and italian football allows cheating as a legitimate tactic

its in their nature

and as much as i love C.Ron, he's a cheater

That counts for every single soccer player, they are all taught to cheat.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 10:41 AM
read this thread entirely please. would you as a tennis fan rather watch blue clay matches once per year, or loose televised matches per year. of course this is stretching the facts by a great extent, but until its tried who really knows. check the nielsen ratings over the past decade or so, were loosing this sport entirely.

League time, have fun with this debate.
You mean US viewers would want to watch more clay court tennis on TV if the clay was blue? (or just any color but red?) Good luck with that idea.

TheTruth
05-10-2009, 10:41 AM
The fact that the players are criticizing it is valid enough. So far, Nadal, Federer, and Serena have come out as being opposed to it, three of the biggest stars in the sport, who are these unnamed stars who are ok with it? Do they get far enough for it to matter.

There is no logical reason for changing the clay and doing it so abruptly before the preparation of the second slam, especially without the players knowing about it. Roger said he found out when he drove past it. That is totally wrong no matter how you try to slice it.

Cesc Fabregas
05-10-2009, 10:42 AM
I have seen it. It's abominable in every respect.

Please can you post a picture of the blue clay I haven't seen it yet?

TheTruth
05-10-2009, 10:43 AM
You're back! I'm so happy, I've missed you a lot :)

Thanks, I missed you all too, but I'm sure you've been holding the fort down. Great postings on this thread.

maximo
05-10-2009, 10:46 AM
Est-ce que tu es Europeen? Tu as vu le court bleu? J'aime la coherence dans la terre battue en Europe. Si tu commences a creer des divisions, tu mets en danger l'avenir de la surface en general. Je n'ai pas envie qu'elle se retrouve reduite a 2 tournois par an comme l'herbe. Tu connais l'expression: "diviser pour mieux reigner"?

Oui, je viens d'Europe. Et je n'ai jamais vue la terre battue en bleu.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 10:56 AM
Please can you post a picture of the blue clay I haven't seen it yet?
I'm trying to remember what link it was. I will post it as soon as I find it.
Here it is (it's only a practise court so far): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlJnAQycTGQ
And here is an article about Federer and Serena not liking it either http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1476187.php/Federer_joins_the_fray_against_Madrid_blue_clay_

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 10:57 AM
Oui, je viens d'Europe. Et je n'ai jamais vue la terre battue en bleu.
Est-ce que tu es Espagnol?

FlamEnemY
05-10-2009, 10:58 AM
Here you go. (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/090509/59/1dc6z.html)

Frankauc
05-10-2009, 11:00 AM
Est-ce que tu es Europeen? Tu as vu le court bleu? J'aime la coherence dans la terre battue en Europe. Si tu commences a creer des divisions, tu mets en danger l'avenir de la surface en general. Je n'ai pas envie qu'elle se retrouve reduite a 2 tournois par an comme l'herbe. Tu connais l'expression: "diviser pour mieux regner"?

Mais l'expression "diviser pour mieux regner" ne veut pas dire justement que des couleurs de terre battue différentes seraient bénéfiques?

maximo
05-10-2009, 11:01 AM
Est-ce que tu es Espagnol?

Je suis Francais, mais j'habite en Angleterre depuis 10 ans. ;)

Cesc Fabregas
05-10-2009, 11:02 AM
Here you go. (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/090509/59/1dc6z.html)

Thanks mate and thanks veroniquem for looking.

maximo
05-10-2009, 11:05 AM
Thanks mate and thanks veroniquem for looking.

Looks more like a HC from that view.

All-rounder
05-10-2009, 11:08 AM
Looks like indoor madrid HC than clay

Gugafan
05-10-2009, 11:14 AM
Huh?? The pictures of the match between Robredo and Kiefer show they are playing on red clay.

Maybe its all a conspiracy.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 11:15 AM
Je suis Francais, mais j'habite en Angleterre depuis 10 ans. ;)
Ah super! Je suis francaise mais j'habite aux USA depuis 11 ans. L'Europe me manque beaucoup, pas tant la France en particulier mais l'Europe en general. Ceci dit, j'aime la ville de NY.

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 11:15 AM
Whats he whining about? he won the damn event. Shut up and play. The more ****** complains about tournaments he get cakewalks through the more I cant stand him. Hes turning into a whiny primadonna. Its like he complains about everything today even if he wins

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 11:15 AM
Huh?? The pictures of the match between Robredo and Kiefer show they are playing on red clay.

Maybe its all a conspiracy.
The blue clay court is only a practise court. See my link on the page before.

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 11:16 AM
Whos the trashy chick Nadal is with in the pool? LOL.. She stole Djoker's man

maximo
05-10-2009, 11:22 AM
Ah super! Je suis francaise mais j'habite aux USA depuis 11 ans. L'Europe me manque beaucoup, pas tant la France en particulier mais l'Europe en general. Ceci dit, j'aime la ville de NY.

il n'y a pas beaucoup de travail en France, alors j'ai decide de partir. :(

Cesc Fabregas
05-10-2009, 11:23 AM
Whos the trashy chick Nadal is with in the pool? LOL.. She stole Djoker's man

What chick?

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 11:25 AM
What chick?

THat chick in that picture he is with on page 1 someone posted

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 11:27 AM
il n'y a pas beaucoup de travail en France, alors j'ai decide de partir. :(

huh?

LOL..

maximo
05-10-2009, 11:32 AM
huh?

LOL..

GameSampras never fails to crack me up...

Cesc Fabregas
05-10-2009, 11:32 AM
THat chick in that picture he is with on page 1 someone posted

Nothing trashy about Nadal's girlfriend shes stunning.

Leonidas
05-10-2009, 11:36 AM
Je suis Francais, mais j'habite en Angleterre depuis 10 ans. ;)
Man i see you´re french. No wonder you are always talking trash about nadal. Roland Garros is the only place where the crowd is disrespecful towards Nadal. The guy won it 4 times and they still whistle when he tries to find a ball mark. the worst crowd ever. It was terrible whenm he played Grosjean and another time i remember he played mathieu. Nadal was 18 years old or so and the crowd tried hard to scare him. i guess they are sick of Spanish players winning there again and again. Im sorry for that crowd, since you´ll probably see him winning the FO more years ;)

dem331
05-10-2009, 11:38 AM
who's insecure

3 of the 4 in the Champions league semis were from england

its common knowledge that spanish and italian football allows cheating as a legitimate tactic

its in their nature

and as much as i love C.Ron, he's a cheater

Pathetic!!!!!!!!!!

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 11:42 AM
Mais l'expression "diviser pour mieux regner" ne veut pas dire justement que des couleurs de terre battue différentes seraient bénéfiques?
Non, du point de vue de l'ATP qui represente les interets de la surface dure, il faut diviser la terre battue pour mieux conquerir ses proponents. L'expression signifie diviser l'adversaire pour mieux le dominer ensuite.

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 11:44 AM
Nothing trashy about Nadal's girlfriend shes stunning.

Does she work? Or just live off Nadal's dough

deltox
05-10-2009, 11:45 AM
Can someone other than a Nadal hater harass me to no end over the issue? You have your opinion, I have mine. Stop trying to terrorize me into changing it because I won't and get off my back. You like the idea of multicolored clay courts, I don't. We have each expressed our reasons why, let's leave it at that and see what happens.

harrass you, you respond to my remarks and i reply, get over it, your not going to get the last word, grow up. im not A NADAL HATER, I DONT DISLIKE THE GUY AT ALL. in fact read my first post where i declare this to be the FIRST time i disliked something he said in a PC. Secondly, ive asked you to PROVE your points which you have avoided like the swine flu. your a *******, it a well known fact. the fact your hero dislikes the surface is why you dislike it. ive simply given rebuttle of your points with great success while you have merely added more opinions.

also, tennis as a whole based on ratings and advertising commercial costs have went down WORLDWIDE!
at least GJ011 has simply said he doesnt believe it to be true, and he personally dislikes it, being perfectly honest about his opinions and not trying to hide behind half facts and heresay


its simple here, those that wish to be Rafas lovers on here simply cannot look past his words. if you want to shut me up, provide simple facts to the argument you are so passionately providing, otherwise, you should be the one to get off my back and shut up. i provided relevant arguments, while you fall back on opinion each time. grow up Veronique, chick or not your acting like a child about this whole thing.

Cesc Fabregas
05-10-2009, 11:46 AM
Does she work? Or just live off Nadal's dough

I Think shes a student not sure though.

deltox
05-10-2009, 11:48 AM
I don`t think this is true. Tennis is losing popularity in US, mainly because of lack of top US player, but not in the rest of the world. So I don`t think any big change is needed, especially I don`t think blue clay would make any difference in that respect.
Change not always means something will be better, so you should also watch what you wish for, because due to changes tennis might lose lots of current fans.
For example, what they did to doubles, with stupid new scoring rules is ridiculous and completely ruined the game.

i agree what they did to doubles sucks, but as for the sport loosing interest in the us alone, please google some commercial costs and ratings and viewer numbers. its declined at a steady rate since the mid 90s. even during federers prime it was going down. why do you think its so hard to find televised events outside your countries respectively, thus being forced into live streams with choppy reception and copyright infringments.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 11:52 AM
Man i see you´re french. No wonder you are always talking trash about nadal. Roland Garros is the only place where the crowd is disrespecful towards Nadal. The guy won it 4 times and they still whistle when he tries to find a ball mark. the worst crowd ever. It was terrible whenm he played Grosjean and another time i remember he played mathieu. Nadal was 18 years old or so and the crowd tried hard to scare him. i guess they are sick of Spanish players winning there again and again. Im sorry for that crowd, since you´ll probably see him winning the FO more years ;)
I disagree. Rafa has a lot of fans at RG. During the final a lot of fans who cannot get seats for the court Chatrier, gather outside (but inside the stadium) to celebrate another Rafa win, it's much more difficult to get tickets there than in NY for instance, the arena is much smaller and they don't put all the seats up for general sale. A lot of the seats are reserved for club players and those can be very jingoistic, support the French unconditionally and make a point of showing their difference from regular casual fans by snobbing the most popular player of the moment (they used to dislike Agassi as well). They usually support classical traditional players like Fed. They're mostly present during the second week and they do not represent the crowd at large.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 11:53 AM
Does she work? Or just live off Nadal's dough
She's a business student in college.

cucio
05-10-2009, 11:53 AM
I mostly watch tourneys on the internet. RG and Rome are okay, but watching Monte Carlo at stream quality is tough on the eyes, worst tournament to follow the ball by light-years, I think it is a combination of the colour of the court and the position/angle of the camera.

I don't see anything wrong with giving it a try. Even if the reason is to mimic a sponsor corporate colour. Hellooooo! The sponsors pay the big bucks to keep the sport going, I see the value in accommodating them to make the sponsoring more attractive, as long as it doesn't degrade the game and the broadcast quality.

So those are to me two valid and logic reasons, and a brand new tournament is the ideal place to test new things out. Will I miss the traditional colour of the clay? Yes. Do I think the idea has merit and might turn out good for the sport? Yes.

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 11:55 AM
She's a business student in college.

Sure she is :). Whats her major? Extortion of pro tennis players? I wonder who is paying her tuition? LOL.

Cesc Fabregas
05-10-2009, 11:57 AM
Sure she is :). Whats her major? Extortion of pro tennis players? I wonder who is paying her tuition? LOL.

Lol shes not as bad as Mirka who gets to travel round the world watching Roger and shes does nothing apart from stay in all the fancy hotels he pays for and orders room service that he pays for.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 11:57 AM
harrass you, you respond to my remarks and i reply, get over it, your not going to get the last word, grow up. im not A NADAL HATER, I DONT DISLIKE THE GUY AT ALL. in fact read my first post where i declare this to be the FIRST time i disliked something he said in a PC. Secondly, ive asked you to PROVE your points which you have avoided like the swine flu. your a *******, it a well known fact. the fact your hero dislikes the surface is why you dislike it. ive simply given rebuttle of your points with great success while you have merely added more opinions.

also, tennis as a whole based on ratings and advertising commercial costs have went down WORLDWIDE!
at least GJ011 has simply said he doesnt believe it to be true, and he personally dislikes it, being perfectly honest about his opinions and not trying to hide behind half facts and heresay


its simple here, those that wish to be Rafas lovers on here simply cannot look past his words. if you want to shut me up, provide simple facts to the argument you are so passionately providing, otherwise, you should be the one to get off my back and shut up. i provided relevant arguments, while you fall back on opinion each time. grow up Veronique, chick or not your acting like a child about this whole thing.
Prove what? I've already given all my arguments. If they don't convince you, too bad. Maybe you could read Federer and Serena's statements as well (I gave a link to that) and you'd be more prepared to give them some credit.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 11:58 AM
Sure she is :). Whats her major? Extortion of pro tennis players? I wonder who is paying her tuition? LOL.
Her major is business. (Can you read?)

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 12:00 PM
Lol shes not as bad as Mirka who gets to travel round the world watching Roger and shes does nothing apart from stay in all the fancy hotels he pays for and orders room service that he pays for.

You know what I mean? Why would any guys put with that ? GET A JOB women.. ya know?

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 12:01 PM
Her major is business. (Can you read?)

Correct. Extortion. Thats apart of business. See Enron

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 12:02 PM
il n'y a pas beaucoup de travail en France, alors j'ai decide de partir. :(
Qu'est-ce que tu fais comme travail en Angleterre? Tu as de la chance parce que l'Angleterre est pres de la France, tu peux y aller souvent, pas comme moi :(

maximo
05-10-2009, 12:02 PM
You know what I mean? Why would any guys put with that ? GET A JOB women.. ya know?

Mirka's pregnant, have some compassion...

mandy01
05-10-2009, 12:03 PM
Lol shes not as bad as Mirka who gets to travel round the world watching Roger and shes does nothing apart from stay in all the fancy hotels he pays for and orders room service that he pays for.
Disgusting...

I dont know much about Xisca but I think she's great..very sweet and they look great together.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 12:03 PM
Correct. Extortion. Thats apart of business. See Enron
Why extortion? They're not married you know, I don't think she would have any legal way to take his money, lol...

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 12:04 PM
Mirka's pregnant, have some compassion...

She just became pregnant. Whats she been doing the rest of these years? Being Fed's "Financial Advisor?".

Cesc Fabregas
05-10-2009, 12:05 PM
You know what I mean? Why would any guys put with that ? GET A JOB women.. ya know?

Remember Pete's girlfriend Delaina Mulcahy? she was a goldigger Pete paid for her to go to Law school and everything.

mandy01
05-10-2009, 12:06 PM
OT random stuff- Although too shy to post myself in the language,I like reading posts in French.They help me to improve as also learn new words
Merci Veronique et Maximo!:wink:

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 12:07 PM
Remember Pete's girlfriend Delaina Mulcahy? she was a goldigger Pete paid for her to go to Law school and everything.

Oh God. I despised that woman. Pete would have been better off with me. :twisted: That didnt sound right. LOL

deltox
05-10-2009, 12:08 PM
Prove what? I've already given all my arguments. If they don't convince you, too bad. Maybe you could read Federer and Serena's statements as well (I gave a link to that) and you'd be more prepared to give them some credit.

so far you have provided, serena and nadals opinions, federer is more upset about the process being used to make the court blue. (since i do hate serena, her words mean nothing to me but with nadal i think its all about what hes used to and his winning streak)

opinions of yourself such as

its ugly, it doesnt match the landscape (which isnt true at all), it breaks tradition (which this being a new tourney cant break tradition) what did i miss? o yeah you also said it played differently, which science itself disagrees with according to the tournament sponsors asking for the change. on this one as with most you are not worth debating with, you are the most hardheaded person on these forums and you do NOT care for the game as a whole, only nadal.

i gave reasons for the sport, not for color coordination.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 12:08 PM
OT random stuff- Although too shy to post myself in the language,I like reading posts in French.They help me to improve as also learn new words
Merci Veronique et Maximo!:wink:
Ah de rien. C'est amusant de poster en francais quelquefois!

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 12:11 PM
Ohh good lord people.. Make posts that I can read and understand. SO I can complain. I cant complain when no one is speaking english here. This is a tennis message board not the Louvre

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 12:11 PM
so far you have provided, serena and nadals opinions, federer is more upset about the process being used to make the court blue. (since i do hate serena, her words mean nothing to me but with nadal i think its all about what hes used to and his winning streak)

opinions of yourself such as

its ugly, it doesnt match the landscape (which isnt true at all), it breaks tradition (which this being a new tourney cant break tradition) what did i miss? o yeah you also said it played differently, which science itself disagrees with according to the tournament sponsors asking for the change. on this one as with most you are not worth debating with, you are the most hardheaded person on these forums and you do NOT care for the game as a whole, only nadal.

i gave reasons for the sport, not for color coordination.
What do you mean the landscape thing is not true? Have you ever been to any mediterranean country? + reddish is the natural color of the earth. Anyway I know my arguments didn't convince you, too bad, yours didn't convince me either. There is no reason to change the color of clay, none, but every reason to just keep it the way it is.

mandy01
05-10-2009, 12:12 PM
She just became pregnant. Whats she been doing the rest of these years? Being Fed's "Financial Advisor?". She takes care of his schedule and even helped him out with press matters( like scheduling interviews etc) for a long time.She's been with him since he had 0 titles.And it was Roger who asked her to accompany him after a permanent injury screwed her career.Its just the glamour you guys see.She did a lot for him.He was pretty much a nobody when they started dating and remained a nobody for a long time after that.Its just these recent years you bothered to notice.He likes her to be with him.So whats your problem? Really..pathetic.:roll:

deltox
05-10-2009, 12:13 PM
Why extortion? They're not married you know, I don't think she would have any legal way to take his money, lol...

after 5 years of living together in the US you can gain alimony upon break up, but im unsure of the laws in spain governing this issue.

deltox
05-10-2009, 12:13 PM
What do you mean the landscape thing is not true? Have you ever been to any mediterranean country? + reddish is the natural color of the earth. Anyway I know my arguments didn't convince you, too bad, yours didn't convince me either. There is no reason to change the color of clay, none.

you havent been reading my posts have you? i visited there 4 years ago, alot of the buildings are BLUE in the residential areas. took my wife there for our anniversary. most of the city scape is grey stone though, i cannot remember many if any that were brick as you stated though. as for the dirt itself, well in madrid its not even visible anywhere.

i did agree that alot of the roofs were red tho.

Cesc Fabregas
05-10-2009, 12:17 PM
Disgusting...

I dont know much about Xisca but I think she's great..very sweet and they look great together.

Whats disgusting? Mirka has the best job in the world all she does is stay in 5 star hotels eat expensive room service and watch tennis heck if Fed asked me I'd do that no problem aslong as I didn't have to sleep next to him.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 12:17 PM
after 5 years of living together in the US you can gain alimony upon break up, but im unsure of the laws in spain governing this issue.
I don't know in the US. I know in France unless you make a formal declaration of "concubinage" (meaning living as a couple without being married), you're not entitled to anything + as far as I know they don't live together yet.

deltox
05-10-2009, 12:18 PM
Whats disgusting? Mirka has the best job in the world all she does is stay in 5 star hotels eat expensive room service and watch tennis heck if Fed asked me I'd do that no problem aslong as I didn't have to sleep next to him.

would you really wanna live on the road? i dont think i could stand it after a year or two.

Cesc Fabregas
05-10-2009, 12:18 PM
Oh God. I despised that woman. Pete would have been better off with me. :twisted: That didnt sound right. LOL

Didn't she try and sue Pete when he broke up with her?

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 12:21 PM
I dont understand why Fed is too stubborn to hire a coach who can actually TURN HIS GAME AROUND, yet he will have some broad traveling with him, managing his money (Like that is real bright, having a woman manage your money), gobbling up 5 star meals along with his dough, sleeping in 5 star hotels etc.


There is something seriously wrong with that equation. And its a big reason why Fed is in the position he is in. Lost his Number 1 ranking, hasnt even won a tournament this year etc. Keep the chick at home.. And get yourself a coach. How dumb can u be? Hes on the threshold of establishing greatness. Yet he is doing these things? He may not have many more chances. He needs the french and the slam record before its too late. Hes not getting any younger and everything is slipping from his fingers.

Dont u think a change for Fed needs to be made? I do. If he continues on this route.. Its all over for him

Gugafan
05-10-2009, 12:22 PM
Does she work? Or just live off Nadal's dough

For a second, I thought u meant Veroniquem there. Lol

Cesc Fabregas
05-10-2009, 12:23 PM
would you really wanna live on the road? i dont think i could stand it after a year or two.

Lol you make it sound like she has a hard life she gets to go and stay in the best hotels all around the world without having to pay for it I mean its a pretty easy life.

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 12:24 PM
[QUOTE=deltox;3405073]so far you have provided, serena and nadals opinions, federer is more upset about the process being used to make the court blue. (since i do hate serena, her words mean nothing to me but with nadal i think its all about what hes used to and his winning streak)



Ah so you think, the blue clay argument is because it would end Nadal's winning streak? Nadal would win on rainbow courts IMO. I'm not at all worried about him losing. I'm concerned about clay as one of the main surfaces in general and about the future of it. You on the other hand seem very eager to think of a gimmick that (in your imagination) may cause Nadal to lose.

mandy01
05-10-2009, 12:24 PM
Ah de rien. C'est amusant de poster en francais quelquefois!
that meant "Its fun speaking in French sometimes" right? :oops:correct me if I'm wrong since speaking French with students of my level and trying to understand a natvie French speaker are two different things and I often forget meanings when I get..er..little nervous or when I'm in the company of someone well educated in the language / fluent .

deltox
05-10-2009, 12:25 PM
Lol you make it sound like she has a hard life she gets to go and stay in the best hotels all around the world without having to pay for it I mean its a pretty easy life.

yeah me to, but i personally would eventually get home sick. i cant hardly stand leaving the area for more than 2 weeks at a time, but my job forces me to travel a ton. i used to love seeing all the new places but now sometimes i just wanna throw my feet up and stay home, ya know.

deltox
05-10-2009, 12:27 PM
Ah so you think, the blue clay argument is because it would end Nadal's winning streak? Nadal would win on rainbow courts IMO. I'm not at all worried about him losing. I'm concerned about clay as one of the main surfaces in general and as the future of it. You on the other hand seem very eager to think of a gimmick that (in your imagination) may cause Nadal to lose.

that gimmick im so concerned about is in hopes that we can eventually watch more tennis on tv because of it, nothing more, nothing less. personally i dont wanna see nadal go down, i wanna see him eclipse borg on clay, i do wanna see djokovic take some clay titles though, but i do NOT ever pull agaisnt nadal on clay. you see, unlike many on here im neither a fed nor nadal fan by heart, i just enjoy watching them play tennis. i always like the ones who are not on top of the game. right now my favs are nole, roddick, monfils, isner and verdasco. i only hate one tennis player in todays game, serena williams. so dont read more into what im saying than what i am actually saying.

Cesc Fabregas
05-10-2009, 12:27 PM
yeah me to, but i personally would eventually get home sick. i cant hardly stand leaving the area for more than 2 weeks at a time, but my job forces me to travel a ton. i used to love seeing all the new places but now sometimes i just wanna throw my feet up and stay home, ya know.

She gets to travel on private jets stay in 5 star suites and eat at all the most expensive restaurants and watches 1 tennis match a day I doubt she is that home sick.

mandy01
05-10-2009, 12:28 PM
I dont understand why Fed is too stubborn to hire a coach who can actually TURN HIS GAME AROUND, yet he will have some broad traveling with him, managing his money (Like that is real bright, having a woman manage your money), gobbling up 5 star meals along with his dough, sleeping in 5 star hotels etc.


There is something seriously wrong with that equation. And its a big reason why Fed is in the position he is in. Lost his Number 1 ranking, hasnt even won a tournament this year etc. Keep the chick at home.. And get yourself a coach. How dumb can u be? Hes on the threshold of establishing greatness. Yet he is doing these things? He may not have many more chances. He needs the french and the slam record before its too late. Hes not getting any younger and everything is slipping from his fingers.

Dont u think a change for Fed needs to be made? I do. If he continues on this route.. Its all over for him
No I think you need to shut up.He manages his own financial affairs and he is helped by his parents not Mirka.
As for a coach Severin Luthi may not be all too reputed but he's been with Roger quite sometime.
Its amazing how classless posters can be..even joking about someone's personal life is disgusting.Mind your own business.

maximo
05-10-2009, 12:29 PM
She gets to travel on private jets

Tennis players don't travel on private jets...

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 12:29 PM
No I think you need to shut up.He manages his own financial affairs and he is helped by his parents not Mirka.
As for a coach Severin Luthi may not be all to reputed but he's been with Roger quite sometime.
Its amazing how classless posters can be..even joking about someone's personal life is disgusting.Mind your own business.

LOL.. Its painful I know. The obvious that is.

Cesc Fabregas
05-10-2009, 12:29 PM
No I think you need to shut up.He manages his own financial affairs and he is helped by his parents not Mirka.
As for a coach Severin Luthi may not be all to reputed but he's been with Roger quite sometime.
Its amazing how classless posters can be..even joking about someone's personal life is disgusting.Mind your own business.

Lol stop getting over sensative he didn't say anything wrong.

thejoe
05-10-2009, 12:30 PM
Ah de rien. C'est amusant de poster en francais quelquefois!

Je suis d'accord. Les philistins ne peuvent pas comprendre, oui?

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 12:30 PM
that meant "Its fun speaking in French sometimes" right? :oops:correct me if I'm wrong since speaking French with students of my level and trying to understand a natvie French speaker are too different things and I often forget meanings when I get..er..little nervous or when I'm in the company of someone well educated in the language / fluent .
Ah don't be nervous, we're between friends here ;-)
Yes, it means "it's fun to post in French sometimes". Tres bien!

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 12:31 PM
Je suis d'accord. Les philistins ne peuvent pas comprendre, oui?
Oui, c'est comme un code secret. Ca me rappelle mon adolescence!

Cesc Fabregas
05-10-2009, 12:31 PM
Tennis players don't travel on private jets...

Well lets just say she isn't crammed into a plane with no leg room and some kid crying behind her.

deltox
05-10-2009, 12:31 PM
She gets to travel on private jets stay in 5 star suites and eat at all the most expensive restaurants and watches 1 tennis match a day I doubt she is that home sick.

i understand and see your point. it just echoes in my head all the people that travel at any rate of iinfluence about how bad they wanna be home.

i suppose now that i have a family it is a bigger deal to be home as much as possible though.

All-rounder
05-10-2009, 12:32 PM
I dont understand why Fed is too stubborn to hire a coach who can actually TURN HIS GAME AROUND, yet he will have some broad traveling with him, managing his money (Like that is real bright, having a woman manage your money), gobbling up 5 star meals along with his dough, sleeping in 5 star hotels etc.


There is something seriously wrong with that equation. And its a big reason why Fed is in the position he is in. Lost his Number 1 ranking, hasnt even won a tournament this year etc. Keep the chick at home.. And get yourself a coach. How dumb can u be? Hes on the threshold of establishing greatness. Yet he is doing these things? He may not have many more chances. He needs the french and the slam record before its too late. Hes not getting any younger and everything is slipping from his fingers.

Dont u think a change for Fed needs to be made? I do. If he continues on this route.. Its all over for him
I think its way too late for french open those chances were out of the window back in 06 as for federer winning slams yes he needs a coach but his arrogance is from a build up of him being the best player in the world and he still till this day believes he's the best player on tour, well if he plays his best then i don't see anybody beating him e.g (US open 2008)

If Federer just opened his ears and just take in all that advise he would have had about 16 slams by now.

mandy01
05-10-2009, 12:32 PM
Lol stop getting over sensative he didn't say anything wrong. why do you guys even pass idiotic comments like these? Its not about being over-sensitive.Have some class or borrow,beg,steal some and use while you post,please.Absolute trolling. :roll:

thejoe
05-10-2009, 12:37 PM
Oui, c'est comme un code secret. Ca me rappelle mon adolescence!

Les codes secrets étaient aspects de ton adolescence? Je suis adolescent maintenant, et je peux dire qu'ils ne sont pas ordinaires pour moi! C'était intéressant?

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 12:39 PM
why do you guys even pass idiotic comments like these? Its not about being over-sensitive.Have some class or borrow,beg,steal some and use while you post,please.Absolute trolling. :roll:

Actually we are providing some meaningful insight here on what Fed should do. There is no a reason to have Mirka flying around with u everywhere when obviously SHE ISNT HELPING HIS CHANCES any better. Fed has won 0 TOURNEYS THIS YEAR!!. Thats not Fedlike right there. Fed has been in long need of a coach for quite a long time. And I agree with the poster saying, Fed truly believes he is still the best. Hes in a bit of denial it seems. It doesnt look like he has been working on his game at all, his focus isnt there, and he things he can just walk on a court and win today. Thats far from the case. He cant just do that he used to do. The competition on top has become much tougher. A change needs to be made for Fed. Its pretty pathetic this has to come from outside tennis fans. He should realize this himself when you look at whats happening to him.

mandy01
05-10-2009, 12:39 PM
Ah don't be nervous, we're between friends here ;-)
Yes, it means "it's fun to post in French sometimes". Tres bien!
Ahh...OK..Merci!Vous êtes aimable :wink:( I hope I got it correct :lol:)

mandy01
05-10-2009, 12:41 PM
Actually we are providing some meaningful insight here on what Fed should do. There is no a reason to have Mirka flying around with u everywhere when obviously SHE ISNT HELPING HIS CHANCES any better. Fed has won 0 TOURNEYS THIS YEAR!!. Thats not Fedlike right there. Fed has been in long need of a coach for quite a long time. And I agree with the poster saying, Fed truly believes he is still the best. Hes in a bit of denial it seems. It doesnt look like he has been working on his game at all, his focus isnt there, and he things he can just walk on a court and win today. Thats far from the case. He cant just do that he used to do. The competition on top has become much tougher. A change needs to be made for Fed. Its pretty pathetic this has to come from outside tennis fans. He should realize this himself. He can do what he wants with his personal life.No need to take potshots at Mirka.Rest of your post is fine with me regardless of whether I agree or not.

Benhur
05-10-2009, 12:52 PM
the color of clay is a simple addition , there is no tradition to the color of the clay events, in actuality clay itself is gray or a shade of brown depending on where its from. (altrhough there is such a thing as red clay as well but its slick like mud) The crushed bricks used today are colored before baking the bricks just as it would be if they were blue.

Humans have been baking bricks for thousands of years, and they've always had a color ranging from yellowish to red, without adding any colorants. That's the color that comes out after baking the materials. That's why adobe buildings are reddish. The fact that in some brick-making processes colorants are added today means squat. How many blue-brick buldings and monuments do you know? They are all on the pink-red-orange-brown side of the spectrum. The vast majority of them are not colored at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brick
[...] The fired colour of clay bricks is influenced by the chemical and mineral content of raw materials, the firing temperature and the atmosphere in the kiln. For example pink coloured bricks are the result of a high iron content, white or yellow bricks have a higher lime content. Most bricks burn to various red hues, if the temperature is increased the colour moves through dark red, purple and then to brown or grey at around 1300 °C. [...]

Blue clay looks revolting to most people's taste. But not to all, from what I can see. I once watched a movie involving a wedding in an American middle class family who wanted to impress their guests at all costs. The catering service recommended, among other horrors, blue mashed potatoes. So they served blue mashed potatoes, and both the groom and the bride and their families were extremely proud of their cutting-edge coup.

Blue clay!!

egn
05-10-2009, 12:53 PM
Oh God. I despised that woman. Pete would have been better off with me. :twisted: That didnt sound right. LOL

oh no i feel i have read that just in terms of nadal...you pulled a babette there.

deltox
05-10-2009, 12:57 PM
Humans have been baking bricks for thousands of years, and they've always had a color ranging from yellowish to red, without adding any colorants. That's the color that comes out after baking the materials. That's why adobe buildings are reddish. The fact that in some brick-making processes colorants are added today means squat. How many blue-brick buldings and monuments do you know? They are all on the pink-red-orange-brown side of the spectrum. The vast majority of them are not colored at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brick
[...] The fired colour of clay bricks is influenced by the chemical and mineral content of raw materials, the firing temperature and the atmosphere in the kiln. For example pink coloured bricks are the result of a high iron content, white or yellow bricks have a higher lime content. Most bricks burn to various red hues, if the temperature is increased the colour moves through dark red, purple and then to brown or grey at around 1300 °C. [...]

Blue clay looks revolting to most people's taste. But not to all, from what I can see. I once watched a movie involving a wedding in an American middle class family who wanted to impress their guests at all costs. The catering service recommended, among other horrors, blue mashed potatoes. So they served blue mashed potatoes, and both the groom and the bride and their families were extremely proud of their cutting-edge coup.

Blue clay!!

i can see your understanding in this thread, its readable and knowledgable and provides links to back up your argument. this is all ive been asking for, but what im saying is if making the bricks blue can be proven to not change the way the ball bounces or plays, and the fact it just MIGHT bring in a few more fans and revenues, would it not be worth trying just once for arguments sake?

egn
05-10-2009, 12:58 PM
Oh completely on topic the blue clay is really ugly...it looks like a fake indoor hardcourt actually it reminds me more of a fake carpet court. I was hoping for a different blue...

deltox
05-10-2009, 01:00 PM
Oh completely on topic the blue clay is really ugly...it looks like a fake indoor hardcourt actually it reminds me more of a fake carpet court. I was hoping for a different blue...

lighter or darker? i was thinking more of a sea blue with a hint of green tint, the court does kinda look like a felt pool table covering

but with that shade of blue i can understand how a yellow ball would be more easily followed on tv and streams

stormholloway
05-10-2009, 01:00 PM
Je suis d'accord. Les philistins ne peuvent pas comprendre, oui?

I like how people that speak French believe they are somehow at a higher echelon of cultural awareness.

It's not a secret code. It's French.

egn
05-10-2009, 01:02 PM
lighter or darker? i was thinking more of a sea blue with a hint of green tint, the court does kinda look like a felt pool table covering

but with that shade of blue i can understand how a yellow ball would be more easily followed on tv and streams

Lighter I was hoping for like the AO blue I love that color. Yea hint of green would have been nice.

deltox
05-10-2009, 01:08 PM
Lighter I was hoping for like the AO blue I love that color. Yea hint of green would have been nice.

id love to see a youtube clip of someone playing on the court. i wanna see if it helps track the ball and bounces more clearly. i honestly do have problems tracking the ball on red clay, not particularly the path of the ball but its bounce point always looks different than its actual bounce spot.

thejoe
05-10-2009, 01:14 PM
I like how people that speak French believe they are somehow at a higher echelon of cultural awareness.

It's not a secret code. It's French.

It was a joke.

egn
05-10-2009, 01:15 PM
id love to see a youtube clip of someone playing on the court. i wanna see if it helps track the ball and bounces more clearly. i honestly do have problems tracking the ball on red clay, not particularly the path of the ball but its bounce point always looks different than its actual bounce spot.

I would love too as well, but it looks as if the lines fade easily but then the court looks a bit sloppy I am wondering if it is just really rushed.

deltox
05-10-2009, 01:17 PM
I would love too as well, but it looks as if the lines fade easily but then the court looks a bit sloppy I am wondering if it is just really rushed.

alot of unanswered question for me to, i think even if its a 500 or 250 tourney it should be tried once for arguments sake .

Benhur
05-10-2009, 01:18 PM
i can see your understanding in this thread, its readable and knowledgable and provides links to back up your argument. this is all ive been asking for, but what im saying is if making the bricks blue can be proven to not change the way the ball bounces or plays, and the fact it just MIGHT bring in a few more fans and revenues, would it not be worth trying just once for arguments sake?

I don't see why it would bring in more fans and revenues. Maybe they should do extensive polling to find out. My guess is most people would prefer the usual brick color, just as they prefer the usual color of mashed potatoes. After all, since "most bricks burn to various red hues" just as most mashed potatoes come up to various white hues, and since the top layer of those courts has always been made of crushed brick (brique pilée), just as most mashed potatoes are made of mashed potatoes (patates pilées) I see no reason why most people would prefer the contrived blue variety. But maybe am wrong.

deltox
05-10-2009, 01:19 PM
I don't see why it would bring in more fans and revenues. Maybe they should do extensive polling to find out. My guess is most people would prefer the usual brick color, just as they prefer the usual color of mashed potatoes. After all, since "most bricks burn to various red hues" just as most mashed potatoes come up to various white hues, and since the top layer of those courts has always been made of crushed brick (brique pilée), just as most mashed potatoes are made of mashed potatoes (patates pilées) I see no reason why most people would prefer the contrived blue variety. But maybe am wrong.

again i state, the reasons given by the directors have been 2 major ones. better visibility for tv viewers and to match the sponsors logo (the guy who dishes out the money)

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 02:24 PM
Les codes secrets étaient aspects de ton adolescence? Je suis adolescent maintenant, et je peux dire qu'ils ne sont pas ordinaires pour moi! C'était intéressant?
C'est peut-etre plus un truc de filles, je ne sais pas. Aussi, par adolescent je pensais 12-13 ans. J'imagine que tu es un peu plus age, n'est-ce pas?

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 02:27 PM
Ahh...OK..Merci!Vous êtes aimable :wink:( I hope I got it correct :lol:)
Vous aussi! (yes it's correct)

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 02:29 PM
I like how people that speak French believe they are somehow at a higher echelon of cultural awareness.

It's not a secret code. It's French.
It's a beautiful language, although French people think speaking French is pretty ordinary!

Bud
05-10-2009, 02:29 PM
If Macdonald was the main sponsor it'd happen, with red ball and the ball girls wearing red afro wig.

Lol! Now that I'd watch! :twisted:

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 02:30 PM
I don't see why it would bring in more fans and revenues. Maybe they should do extensive polling to find out. My guess is most people would prefer the usual brick color, just as they prefer the usual color of mashed potatoes. After all, since "most bricks burn to various red hues" just as most mashed potatoes come up to various white hues, and since the top layer of those courts has always been made of crushed brick (brique pilée), just as most mashed potatoes are made of mashed potatoes (patates pilées) I see no reason why most people would prefer the contrived blue variety. But maybe am wrong.
Hopefully you're right!

thejoe
05-10-2009, 02:30 PM
C'est peut-etre plus un truc de filles, je ne sais pas. Aussi, par adolescent je pensais 12-13 ans. J'imagine que tu es un peu plus age, n'est-ce pas?

Peut-etre. Bien sûr, j'ai 17 ans. Je pensais que l'adolescence est plus comme 13-15 ans? Il n'est pas important...

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 02:34 PM
Peut-etre. Bien sûr, j'ai 17 ans. Je pensais que l'adolescence est plus comme 13-15 ans? Il n'est pas important...
C'est vrai, les anglais pensent que 12 ans, c'est la pre-adolescence parce que 12 n'est pas un nombre en "teen". Je pense qu'en France l'adolescence va de 12 a 16 ans (dans l'esprit des gens) mais bon c'est un detail. Quand j'etais en 6eme, je parlais anglais devant mes parents parce qu'ils ne comprenaient pas, l'anglais etait mon code secret!

vive le beau jeu !
05-10-2009, 02:40 PM
Btw players seeing the ball earlier helps the attacking players. They are able to hit the ball on the rise easier and pressure the grinders. So there is definitely a different feel with changing colors. Maybe not the actual bounce but the way they play.
who knows, that could be right... but then you would prefer matches played in the fog, favorising grinders ? ;)

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 02:43 PM
Humans have been baking bricks for thousands of years, and they've always had a color ranging from yellowish to red, without adding any colorants. That's the color that comes out after baking the materials. That's why adobe buildings are reddish. The fact that in some brick-making processes colorants are added today means squat. How many blue-brick buldings and monuments do you know? They are all on the pink-red-orange-brown side of the spectrum. The vast majority of them are not colored at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brick
[...] The fired colour of clay bricks is influenced by the chemical and mineral content of raw materials, the firing temperature and the atmosphere in the kiln. For example pink coloured bricks are the result of a high iron content, white or yellow bricks have a higher lime content. Most bricks burn to various red hues, if the temperature is increased the colour moves through dark red, purple and then to brown or grey at around 1300 °C. [...]

Blue clay looks revolting to most people's taste. But not to all, from what I can see. I once watched a movie involving a wedding in an American middle class family who wanted to impress their guests at all costs. The catering service recommended, among other horrors, blue mashed potatoes. So they served blue mashed potatoes, and both the groom and the bride and their families were extremely proud of their cutting-edge coup.

Blue clay!!
Thanks for expressing the process better than I could. To me it's just instictively wrong but you give the rational explanation, that's great.

NamRanger
05-10-2009, 02:43 PM
You did not understand what Nadal complained about. He didn't complain about Madrid being the wrong altitude in general, that would be pretty stupid indeed, he said that he would have preferred a tournament like Barcelona to be the last one before RG because, due to the altitude, Madrid plays completely differently than RG and is not a good preparation for it. He suggested to switch the dates so that the last master before RG would be more similar to the way RG plays.
About blue clay, you're plain wrong. What's next, paint the grass red? It won't bring any spectators and will purely and simply ruin clay as a surface.
Finally, Nadal is totally entitled to have his opinions and express them. His opinions are at least as valid as yours (as a pro player's they're probably more valid actually). You're free to disagree but you have absolutely no business and no prerogative to "call him out on it". That is 100% out of line.



Oh the irony of this statement.

stormholloway
05-10-2009, 02:45 PM
It's a beautiful language, although French people think speaking French is pretty ordinary!

Just bustin' chops. It's my favorite country and language. I plan on learning French next.

I just came back from Paris, and surprisingly, chicks seem to dig the 'gringo attempting French' routine.

And what 'chicks'... ooh la la.

Benhur
05-10-2009, 03:15 PM
It's a beautiful language, although French people think speaking French is pretty ordinary!


Admirose un portugués
al ver que en su tierna infancia
todos los niños de Francia
supiesen hablar francés.

!Arte diabólico es!
dijo, torciendo el mostacho,
que para hablar en gabacho
un fidalgo en Portugal
llega a viejo y lo habla mal,
!y aquí lo parla un muchacho!

Leandro Fernández de Moratín

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 03:19 PM
It's a beautiful language, although French people think speaking French is pretty ordinary!

Beautiful? Its incomprehensible. STOP IT!!! LOL.. Im getting headaches. :) You could all be talking crap about everyone and we dont know what youre saying

Frankauc
05-10-2009, 03:35 PM
Ma langue maternelle est le français, et je ne penses pas que c'est la meilleure langue.....Beaucoup trop compliquée, trop d'exceptions, et pas tellement utile pour voyager à l'internationnal

GameSampras
05-10-2009, 03:44 PM
Ma langue maternelle est le français, et je ne penses pas que c'est la meilleure langue.....Beaucoup trop compliquée, trop d'exceptions, et pas tellement utile pour voyager à l'internationnal


euqqq estee asofuwf204542hlwqnfkjbv dsjvb.. Nadal' Moonballer, Fed headcase overrated 2afasdklfhjas adfaq dominated in weak era 342428245asdfasdlkfhaskflhas fashf

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 06:24 PM
Ma langue maternelle est le français, et je ne penses pas que c'est la meilleure langue.....Beaucoup trop compliquée, trop d'exceptions, et pas tellement utile pour voyager à l'internationnal
Oui, l'anglais est la langue la plus pratique au niveau international mais je rencontre beaucoup d'etrangers qui me disent qu'ils trouvent la langue francaise tres belle. Ceci dit, La grammaire est a s'arracher les cheveux, c'est sur!

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 06:33 PM
Just bustin' chops. It's my favorite country and language. I plan on learning French next.

I just came back from Paris, and surprisingly, chicks seem to dig the 'gringo attempting French' routine.

And what 'chicks'... ooh la la.
Sure, the Italian accent is lovely, glad you had a good time there! Les femmes francaises ont un "je ne sais quoi", n'est-ce pas? ;-)

veroniquem
05-10-2009, 06:41 PM
Admirose un portugués
al ver que en su tierna infancia
todos los niños de Francia
supiesen hablar francés.

!Arte diabólico es!
dijo, torciendo el mostacho,
que para hablar en gabacho
un fidalgo en Portugal
llega a viejo y lo habla mal,
!y aquí lo parla un muchacho!

Leandro Fernández de Moratín
Muy bien, es gracioso, gracias.

J-man
05-10-2009, 06:45 PM
I Agee with rafa with most of it but hes making a big deal about the blue clay. I can see where he is. Coming from but it's benefiting the viewers. Just get over it

seffina
05-10-2009, 06:54 PM
I'm in the middle here. I am willing to try the blue clay thing out. I don't care for it, I don't need it. I've never had difficulty seeing the ball. But even if the clay plays a little different, that's fine. It's a little variety, no big deal. Nothing wrong with having a slightly different surface. There are plenty of traditional courts. Again I'm not fond of this change, but there's no harm in trying it as an experiment. If it keeps a sponsor happy in today's hard times, it's worth a little experimentation.

I'll agree with Nadal's point that Madrid should've been earlier and a tournament more similar to RG as the one right before it. But as he also said, everyone's in the same boat, so everyone will suffer equally.

I'll also agree with Roger that they shouldn't just randomly try it on a court with players without going through the proper process.

All the players were asked their opinion and they gave them. It's not like they just came in to the press conference and decided to give an unasked statement.

Here's to a good tourny!

svijk
05-11-2009, 04:53 AM
What am i missing here, i've been watching matches on the Tennis channel including Safin-Tsonga on center court. Where's the Blue Clay????

seffina
05-11-2009, 04:58 AM
What am i missing here, i've been watching matches on the Tennis channel including Safin-Tsonga on center court. Where's the Blue Clay????

I think the plan is for next year. They're trying it out on some practice courts this year.

stormholloway
05-11-2009, 05:21 AM
Sure, the Italian accent is lovely, glad you had a good time there! Les femmes francaises ont un "je ne sais quoi", n'est-ce pas? ;-)

Ha!

I have no Italian accent. I'm American born and bred. ;)

Oui. Il y'a le "je ne sais quoi". J'adore les femmes francaises.

Nadal_Freak
05-11-2009, 08:18 AM
I Agee with rafa with most of it but hes making a big deal about the blue clay. I can see where he is. Coming from but it's benefiting the viewers. Just get over it
It's not benefitting anyone. It is garbage.

drakulie
05-11-2009, 08:23 AM
Why is Rafa complaining?? Get over it and play tennis.

stormholloway
05-11-2009, 08:56 AM
Ma langue maternelle est le français, et je ne penses pas que c'est la meilleure langue.....Beaucoup trop compliquée, trop d'exceptions, et pas tellement utile pour voyager à l'internationnal

The English system of pronunciation is far more complicated. France at least has a consistent, albeit complex, system of pronunciation. English is all over the map. Think "love" and "cove". Why is one pronounced one way and the other pronounced another way? French is odd but at least relatively consistent.

It's not benefitting anyone. It is garbage.

I'm entertained by it and more inclined to watch the tournament in the future because of, therefore it benefits me (and the tournament).

This is no different from hard courts being painted differently.

skip1969
05-11-2009, 08:59 AM
i'm not sure what to say about all this ranting on this thread. but i will say that i think it seems like a bit of desperation on the part of the professional side of our sport to try so many off-the-cuff, gimmicky ploys in order to (supposedly) develop and grow the fan base. i'm not some crazy traditionalist or anything, and i recognize that everything must evolve in order to survive . . . but the people in charge of tennis seem to be grasping at straws.

in other sports that i follow, change comes fairly slowly . . . and that's not necessarily a bad thing. and usually, it starts lower down . . . the lower leagues, the minors, etc. you put forth an idea and try it out in a smaller sphere, that way you do your testing, your research . . . you gather opinion, feedback . . . you tweek, you fine-tune . . . then you bring the fully realized plan to the big stage.

i think about basketball and the advent of the three-point line, and the moving back of that line through the years. the wider international lane. in football (soccer) there's the idea of the fourth official, or technology in determining the ball crossing the line, for example. in hockey, the crease, the lwo-line pass. in volleyball, the end of side-out. i mean, the changes come in sport, but they aren't so random. and they aren't driven by the friggin' sponsors! it's for the betterment of the game, sure. but not every idea is a good idea.

it just seems that the last few years, tennis has had this attitude that whatever gets put in the suggestion box today, is ready to be implemented tomorrow. and that smacks of desperation to me.

Nadal_Freak
05-11-2009, 08:59 AM
I'm entertained by it and more inclined to watch the tournament in the future because of, therefore it benefits me (and the tournament).

This is no different from hard courts being painted differently.
It looks real ugly and unnatural. Even the blue color they used wasn't a good one. Hurts my eyes just looking at it.

maximo
05-11-2009, 09:03 AM
Oui, l'anglais est la langue la plus pratique au niveau international mais je rencontre beaucoup d'etrangers qui me disent qu'ils trouvent la langue francaise tres belle. Ceci dit, La grammaire est a s'arracher les cheveux, c'est sur!

Moi je trouve que le Francais est la plus belle langue du monde!

stormholloway
05-11-2009, 09:05 AM
It looks real ugly and unnatural. Even the blue color they used wasn't a good one. Hurts my eyes just looking at it.

The argument based purely on aesthetics is a viable one. Can you post some pictures of it? The only one I saw was very dim of that indoor court. I don't think the court is properly represented because the lighting was so bad.

I'd like to see it in natural sunlight.

stormholloway
05-11-2009, 09:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNnVEJ6n-hk

I like it. I play on red clay and I find visibility to be significantly reduced when compared to the blue US Open courts I'm used to playing on. As a matter of both function and aesthetic, I like it. If this is an issue of tradition, then let it go, unless you are also for wood racquets.

Clay is crushed brick. What color you dye it doesn't matter. This will make the ball easier to see period. I'm all for it.

Gorecki
05-11-2009, 09:18 AM
Admirose un portugués
al ver que en su tierna infancia
todos los niños de Francia
supiesen hablar francés.

!Arte diabólico es!
dijo, torciendo el mostacho,
que para hablar en gabacho
un fidalgo en Portugal
llega a viejo y lo habla mal,
!y aquí lo parla un muchacho!

Leandro Fernández de Moratín

hehe... so true!

DarthMaul
05-11-2009, 09:18 AM
I think blue clay has its advantages:

1. Yellow balls are WAY more visible on blue.
2. It's well known that blue is good for the spirit.. helps you remain calm.
3. Still being CLAY, marks are clearly visible.

Veroniquem and Nadal_Freak would be completely in love with blue clay if their hero would say that blue clay is OK.

Nadal_Freak
05-11-2009, 09:20 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNnVEJ6n-hk

I like it. I play on red clay and I find visibility to be significantly reduced when compared to the blue US Open courts I'm used to playing on. As a matter of both function and aesthetic, I like it. If this is an issue of tradition, then let it go, unless you are also for wood racquets.

Clay is crushed brick. What color you dye it doesn't matter. This will make the ball easier to see period. I'm all for it.
It looks awful and too dark. Blue clay is best used as a joke for the Australian Open. :D

seffina
05-11-2009, 09:20 AM
Can't we just change the colors of the balls first? :p

tacou
05-11-2009, 09:27 AM
am I watching a different tournament?? where is this blue clay?

skip1969
05-11-2009, 09:35 AM
am I watching a different tournament?? where is this blue clay?
read back a couple of pages. it's just an experiment on some practice courts this year.

vtmike
05-11-2009, 09:42 AM
well in that case, whats the difference for blue clay and red clay. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing they play the same way. Like you said about grass, clay is still clay, but different color. And as far as the grass goes in wimbledon, the grass does not play the same way it used to, so thats more of a change than changing from red clay to blue clay. So much for tradition. I don't think they should change the clay anyway, but just saying.

Yup! Apparently a change in color is a bigger shift in tradition than the way a surface actually plays! and what tradition are they talking about...wasn't Madrid played on hard courts up until last year?

^Plus, I doubt it will be as drastic as the change seen at Wimbledon, but you don't see her whinging about that. I wonder why...


Veroniquem and Nadal_Freak would be completely in love with blue clay if their hero would say that blue clay is OK.

LOL True!! :rolleyes:

vtmike
05-11-2009, 09:53 AM
Oh God. I despised that woman. Pete would have been better off with me. :twisted: That didnt sound right. LOL

LMAO! Now that exaplains a lot!

drakulie
05-11-2009, 09:54 AM
It looks real ugly and unnatural. Even the blue color they used wasn't a good one. Hurts my eyes just looking at it.


http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j198/farhanhh/cry_baby.jpg

vtmike
05-11-2009, 09:56 AM
^^^ LMAO! BTW I wonder where he saw a match on blue clay considering its only been used on practice courts so far...

stormholloway
05-11-2009, 10:10 AM
It looks awful and too dark. Blue clay is best used as a joke for the Australian Open. :D

I think it's pretty good looking. Dark is good. It creates contrast with the ball.

And again, this tournament is new. It gets to form its own tradition, and if they keep the blue, years from now people will accept blue clay as a 'Madrid tradition'. Traditions aren't sent from God. They are made by people.

Gorecki
05-11-2009, 10:33 AM
and as much as i love C.Ron, he's a world class athlete, closing in to become Man U's Greatest star ever and i would like to have one player coming from my country that could be half as talented as he is


there.. corrected it for you