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View Full Version : So I watching the NAIA nationals practice today, and...


Slicendicer
05-11-2009, 03:07 PM
I noticed a few guys that were "standouts" or really good players (1 American, 4-5 S. American/Spanish) and the rest of the field, granted I saw 8 teams practicing, were not very good at all. I mean 50% of the guys could hit a beastly FH (mostly long or into the net), almost all BH's were fluff shots... it was funny to me to see 1 guy in particular hit a pretty good FH and just unable to hit the BH with any authority at all.

I also noticed the guys that probably could be really good, were more concerned about who seen him just hit a FH that landed in, instead of focusing on the practice points.

The doubles play was terrible, no volley skills at all. A few guys had big serves and big FH's and that was it.

I was talking to a coach and asked what high school they were. He was like... uhhh, we're college, man. Oh... sorry.

maverick66
05-11-2009, 03:10 PM
isnt NAIA really small schools?

eeytennis
05-11-2009, 03:15 PM
I noticed a few guys that were "standouts" or really good players (1 American, 4-5 S. American/Spanish) and the rest of the field, granted I saw 8 teams practicing, were not very good at all. I mean 50% of the guys could hit a beastly FH (mostly long or into the net), almost all BH's were fluff shots... it was funny to me to see 1 guy in particular hit a pretty good FH and just unable to hit the BH with any authority at all.

I also noticed the guys that probably could be really good, were more concerned about who seen him just hit a FH that landed in, instead of focusing on the practice points.

The doubles play was terrible, no volley skills at all. A few guys had big serves and big FH's and that was it.

I was talking to a coach and asked what high school they were. He was like... uhhh, we're college, man. Oh... sorry.

NAIA has some good players but they usually doesn't draw in the kinds of players that the NCAA draws in. There in an NAIA around where i live and their schedule is lame (with the exceptions of a few good matches). They CAN play in the Small Schools National Championship (NCAA) i think, but you have to be quite a good player to come from an NAiA school and make that tournament.

escii_35
05-11-2009, 03:26 PM
Middle of the road NAIA -> 4.5

Slicendicer
05-11-2009, 03:29 PM
OK then, that didn't make sense. I thought NAIA was equivalent to DI/DII. Not bagging on the NAIA players, I'm sure they are playing their best... I expected a higher level of play. I'm sure there is more than a few really good players in the tournament... should be fun to watch.

eeytennis
05-11-2009, 04:00 PM
OK then, that didn't make sense. I thought NAIA was equivalent to DI/DII. Not bagging on the NAIA players, I'm sure they are playing their best... I expected a higher level of play. I'm sure there is more than a few really good players in the tournament... should be fun to watch.

NAIA is definitely not equivalent to D1/D2 schools...at least most of them anyway. Most D3 schools could beat most NAIA teams...at least that's what i have seen...maybe in another part of the country NAIA schools are much stronger.

35ft6
05-11-2009, 04:02 PM
The NAIA is no match for top D-1 schools, but compared to the general tennis playing public, like say the weekend warriors of these boards, those guys are superstars. Check out how number 1 NAIA team in nation did against D-3 number 1 Emory, and D-2 number 1 Armstrong Atlantic (http://www.collegetennisonline.com/AuburnUniversityMontgomery-M-Tennis/Home.aspx). The top guys on NAIA teams could probably play singles for all but the very best D-1 schools.

In general, there's a bit of overlap between all the different divisions. And by that I mean the top D-3 singles players could be impact players in many if not most D-1 schools even if they couldn't make it onto UCLA or Ohio State. Same for NAIA with D-2 and even D-1. The very best singles players in D-2, D-3, and NAIA, etc, are competitive with each other on any given year, just that as you go up in divisions, it becomes much deeper. There are all sorts of reasons why people choose the schools they do and sometimes D-1 stud quality players will play for a smaller division for a while. You never know.I noticed a few guys that were "standouts" or really good players (1 American, 4-5 S. American/Spanish) and the rest of the field, granted I saw 8 teams practicing, were not very good at all. I mean 50% of the guys could hit a beastly FH (mostly long or into the net), almost all BH's were fluff shots... it was funny to me to see 1 guy in particular hit a pretty good FH and just unable to hit the BH with any authority at all.

I also noticed the guys that probably could be really good, were more concerned about who seen him just hit a FH that landed in, instead of focusing on the practice points.

The doubles play was terrible, no volley skills at all. A few guys had big serves and big FH's and that was it.The real problem is that you're not good enough yet to really be able to assess a good player. Except for one comment about volleys, all you talk about is power. Don't feel bad, this is common. In fact, that's all most sub 4.0 to 4.5 players really talk about. These guys might look weak against each other but they would destroy most 5.0 and even 5.5 players.I was talking to a coach and asked what high school they were. He was like... uhhh, we're college, man. Oh... sorry.That was pretty weaksauce.

35ft6
05-11-2009, 04:16 PM
Results of NAIA number 2 ranked Fresno against D-1 school Memphis State. (http://collegetennisonline.com/FresnoPacificUniversity-M-Tennis/ScoreSheet.aspx?scseId=175861) Notice the number 2 ranked singles player in NAIA played 111 ranked guy in D-1. The NAIA guy won, beating a D-1 guy with wins over the 46th and 50th ranked singles players in D-1.

Slicendicer
05-11-2009, 04:52 PM
The NAIA is no match for top D-1 schools, but compared to the general tennis playing public, like say the weekend warriors of these boards, those guys are superstars. Check out how number 1 NAIA team in nation did against D-3 number 1 Emory, and D-2 number 1 Armstrong Atlantic (http://www.collegetennisonline.com/AuburnUniversityMontgomery-M-Tennis/Home.aspx). The top guys on NAIA teams could probably play singles for all but the very best D-1 schools.

In general, there's a bit of overlap between all the different divisions. And by that I mean the top D-3 singles players could be impact players in many if not most D-1 schools even if they couldn't make it onto UCLA or Ohio State. Same for NAIA with D-2 and even D-1. The very best singles players in D-2, D-3, and NAIA, etc, are competitive with each other on any given year, just that as you go up in divisions, it becomes much deeper. There are all sorts of reasons why people choose the schools they do and sometimes D-1 stud quality players will play for a smaller division for a while. You never know.The real problem is that you're not good enough yet to really be able to assess a good player. Except for one comment about volleys, all you talk about is power. Don't feel bad, this is common. In fact, that's all most sub 4.0 to 4.5 players really talk about. These guys might look weak against each other but they would destroy most 5.0 and even 5.5 players.That was pretty weaksauce.

Dude, I played good tennis once upon a time. I have two National titles in NJCAA and played 5.0/5.5 leagues in Atlanta and NIKE pro league team... very strong tennis. My partner in college was so dominant, he would pretty much easily destroy any person on this board, for sure... I was lucky enough to play tennis with Gabby 5x a week, a former #3 player for Spain and a Davis Cup alternate. I coached high level junior tennis, a high school team and worked out with several pro's and former Top 10 players... so I can comment... and "power" is a huge part of accelerating the game once you can control spin. I anticipate in 1 years time I will be playing high level tennis and possibly try a few qualifiers.

onehandbh
05-11-2009, 05:32 PM
Dude, I played good tennis once upon a time. I have two National titles in NJCAA and played 5.0/5.5 leagues in Atlanta and NIKE pro league team... very strong tennis. My partner in college was so dominant, he would pretty much easily destroy any person on this board, for sure... I was lucky enough to play tennis with Gabby 5x a week, a former #3 player for Spain and a Davis Cup alternate. I coached high level junior tennis, a high school team and worked out with several pro's and former Top 10 players... so I can comment... and "power" is a huge part of accelerating the game once you can control spin. I anticipate in 1 years time I will be playing high level tennis and possibly try a few qualifiers.

It always helps to have a good practice partner. Did you win your
NJCAA titles in singles or doubles? what year?
Did Gabby ever play any pro tournaments? What's his
last name? btw, I think there may be some low-ranked
pros that post on this board. Do you think Gabby would
destroy them, too?

Slicendicer
05-11-2009, 05:40 PM
It always helps to have a good practice partner. Did you win your
NJCAA titles in singles or doubles? what year?
Did Gabby ever play any pro tournaments? What's his
last name? btw, I think there may be some low-ranked
pros that post on this board. Do you think Gabby would
destroy them, too?

Singles/Doubles. Yeah... he played many pro tourney's, he turned pro at 15... he bageled Nadal on clay in '02 pro tourney. Anyway, it doesn't matter I shot off and all I was saying was I have cred to assess college tennis players.

The Mobile TC is the largest tennis facility in the world. High school teams from all around Mobile county play matches and tournaments there... I didn't know the NAIA tournament was in town. So I assumed the players were H.S., thus I asked a coach what H.S. they were. When he said they were college, I was compelled to watch them practice. :)

35ft6
05-11-2009, 07:29 PM
so I can comment... and "power" is a huge part of accelerating the game once you can control spin.If what you wrote is true, I'm shocked. You sounded like a 13 yo newbie in that post.

edit: okay, I saw the explanation as to what would make you ask if they were high school players...Singles/Doubles. Yeah... he played many pro tourney's, he turned pro at 15... he bageled Nadal on clay in '02 pro tourney.Nobody got a bagel set off Nadal in 2002 (http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/5/en/players/playerprofiles/playeractivity.asp?query=Singles&year=2002&player=N409&selTournament=0&prevtrnnum=0) let alone on clay. Unless this was an underground tournament on some secret island run by a diabolical Asian dude with a detachable right hand.

johnkidd
05-11-2009, 08:07 PM
When I played in college my school was NAIA, they're now DII. Most of the better teams we played have also since switched over. We actually beat Cleveland State and lost 5-4 to Wright State my first year. Unfortunately the last match was me going down 7-5 in the 3rd after serving for the mach at 5-4.

10isDad
05-12-2009, 04:31 AM
Nobody got a bagel set off Nadal in 2002 let alone on clay. Unless this was an underground tournament on some secret island run by a diabolical Asian dude with a detachable right hand.

The ATP tour website doesn't show ITF Satellite events, which are pro tourneys. Nadal did indeed lose two sets at love in 2002: one to Gabriel Frias-Valle at the Spain Satellite in January of 2002. Score was Frias-Valle: 6-4, 5-7, 6-0

http://www.itftennis.com/mens/players/activity.asp?player=100007935


Note: he also lost a bagel set on clay in March 2002 to Alan Mackin (6-0, 7-6(5)). However, being that Gabriel is likely "Gabby"...... (BTW - career high singles = #707 - qualified for a few events, got to the quarterfinals of a handful of events (including this one - losing to Starace)

Gemini
05-12-2009, 05:35 AM
Most NAIA programs are more like "club" teams rather varsity programs. You get maybe 3 players on a squad that are top flight players but the high level across the board you see in NCAA D1-D3 is rarely there. I'm not surprised to be honest.

Vik
05-12-2009, 06:23 AM
I thought NAIA was equivalent to DI/DII.
Why on earth would you think that? It's not 1950.
For what it's worth, NAIA has been completely watered down in the last 10-15 years. A ton of NAIA schools transitioned to either D2 or D3. The top NAIA schools are still very strong but there would be a load of teams at nationals that don't look very good, especially if you are expecting D1 caliber

Your comment about looking to try a few qualifiers is hilarious. You'd be a lot more believable that you were a decent player if you wouldn't exaggerate so much.

Slicendicer
05-12-2009, 06:36 AM
Why on earth would you think that? It's not 1950.
For what it's worth, NAIA has been completely watered down in the last 10-15 years. A ton of NAIA schools transitioned to either D2 or D3. The top NAIA schools are still very strong but there would be a load of teams at nationals that don't look very good, especially if you are expecting D1 caliber

Your comment about looking to try a few qualifiers is hilarious. You'd be a lot more believable that you were a decent player if you wouldn't exaggerate so much.


This is great... why is that hilarious to you? I beat some really good player not that long ago. I'm getting fit and strong and losing weight. I have tennis skills better than when I played fulltime. I have a better sense of how to construct points as I am older and smarter, tenniswise. I have a pro coach who will work out with me 7x a week when I'm ready, and I mean a coach that has coached several pro players in the top 50 and a former Davis Cup player.

I played with several players in the qualifiers in Mobile in March. At 300lb's and totally out of shape, I could have beat 2-3 guys I saw. You have no idea how well I can play tennis when I'm fit... I'm by no means a great player or a "natural", but I can hit the lights out of a FH and BH and I serve pretty good. My volleying needs practice to get up to speed, but I learned the volley from 1 of the best volleyers in the world... a Wimbledon Finalist and Top 10 doubles player.
Like I said, next year I'll try to qualifiy in Mobile.

Vik
05-12-2009, 09:08 AM
Dude, I played good tennis once upon a time. I have two National titles in NJCAA and played 5.0/5.5 leagues in Atlanta and NIKE pro league team... very strong tennis. My partner in college was so dominant, he would pretty much easily destroy any person on this board, for sure... I was lucky enough to play tennis with Gabby 5x a week, a former #3 player for Spain and a Davis Cup alternate. I coached high level junior tennis, a high school team and worked out with several pro's and former Top 10 players... so I can comment... and "power" is a huge part of accelerating the game once you can control spin. I anticipate in 1 years time I will be playing high level tennis and possibly try a few qualifiers.

The same Gabby who played JUCO tennis in 2005...?

You are 35 and working your way down from 300lbs. You say you will possibly try a few qualifiers in the next year as justification that you "have cred". Guess I have an odd sense of humor.

I don't doubt that you have/had some game but you sound like you are overselling.

35ft6
05-12-2009, 01:35 PM
The ATP tour website doesn't show ITF Satellite events, which are pro tourneys.)Ahhhh. Did not know that. How did you find these results?Most NAIA programs are more like "club" teams rather varsity programs. You get maybe 3 players on a squad that are top flight players but the high level across the board you see in NCAA D1-D3 is rarely there. I'm not surprised to be honest.You don't see high level across the board in D-1-D-3 either. The top 100 or so D-1 teams, they are pretty loaded from 1 to 6 singles. Like 75th ranked Depaul, check out their number 6 guys background:High School
ranked among top 15 in Croatia... ranked among top 100 U-16 by European Tennis Association. But I played on a D-2 team and a D-3 team, and have played D-1 teams, and outside of the top 100, maybe top 150, even a D-1 team might only have 1 really good player. Lots of teams have 1 or 2 decent players, and the rest are recruited from squash club or something.

Just saying, statistically, very few tennis players are 5.5 and above, but if they are, and if they're young, almost all of them are on the pro tour or playing college tennis. And all the fabulous players aren't playing just D-1. A lot of them are smart enough to know they're never going to make money on the ATP tour and go to the school that gives them the most scholarship money. So you can play number 6 singles for USC and zero to little money or, instead, get a full ride playing at a D-2 school in South Carolina. Also, certain schools tend to recruit from specific countries. I know Northwood in Michigan based on pass recruits had a very good "in" with players in the Czech Republic, friends would get friends to come, and for a while they had a lot of satellite level guys going there playing their top 3 singles spots. And sometimes a D-2 or lower school will have a guy who could be a star in D-1 but he's such a goofball there's no way he could be admitted to a place like UCLA, which is a top 25 school in academics. Like a great basketball player with such poor academics he is playing in a junior college when he could be starting for Arizona State.

10isDad
05-12-2009, 01:51 PM
Ahhhh. Did not know that. How did you find these results?

I've always found the ITF website slightly more complete when looking at results. When looking for results for my son's various teachers, I often found I had to look at the ITF website to find some of the satellite events. For whatever reason, the ATP website isn't complete. Additionally, the ATP website doesn't show the qualifying rounds. While they provide no points, it's still quite interesting to see what happens in the qualies.

35ft6
05-12-2009, 01:54 PM
^ Thanks! I'll check it out. I use SteveG if I randomly decide to see who's playing in challengers and satellites, and their respective qualifiers. But not sure if past events are searchable by name.

The Wreck
05-12-2009, 05:58 PM
I run the risk of being wrong here, but I'm still going to call out Slicendicer here for a few reasons:

First, you said you played Junior College tennis and apparently have been heavily involved in the sport for a long time, yet you thought that NAIA was comparable to D1/D2. Just seems slightly off to me.

Second, you said you won 2 national championships at the Junior College level, yet in another topic on this board, you claim you didn't even begin playing tennis until you were 26, almost 27. Multiple problems here. Since when are competitive junior college athletes in their late 20's early 30's, and how could you have possibly risen to such a high level so quickly late in life?

Third, you're claims that you can play highly competitive tennis don't seem to hold up. With such a long and storied tennis career (as you claim), that started a 26 years old, you must be in your mid to late 30's by now, right? An aging, 300 lb. man playing high level qualifiers....I don't see it.

And finally, what sort of mature, grown man behaves in such a way on an online forum? You got highly defensive and instantly challenged and attacked those who were simply questioning you.

If you can provide a video or proof, I'd be more than willing to retract any and all of my previous statements.

35ft6
05-12-2009, 07:24 PM
If you can provide a video or proof, I'd be more than willing to retract any and all of my previous statements.http://s125.photobucket.com/albums/p46/asd1270/?action=view&current=100_1333.flv

4.0 or 4.5. But nice foundation. Keep playing and get in shape. He's already got the tough part of tennis down, his strokes are relatively sound, he just needs to keep hitting.

Jonas
05-13-2009, 09:23 AM
Not raining on Slicer's parade at all, but I was at the qualies during that Mobile, Alabama Challenger and their were some 4.0' s playing in the qualies..
I could not believe it (local hackers).

Heck, you might even get a decent draw and qualify.

I wish you the best.

bluetrain4
05-16-2009, 01:10 AM
Top NAIA guys are really good, as other have stated.

NAIA has really decreased in the last decade as more and more NAIA schools go NCAA DII or DIII.