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View Full Version : C. Rochus spits fire at ATP


madmanfool
05-14-2009, 01:53 PM
This is from Filip Dewulf's blog (former Belgium tennis player) who spoke with Rochus a few days ago:

"They doubled the ATP points this year. But it turns out that in some challengers and first rounds of ATP tournaments the points were not doubled. Meaning it's much harder for players who are trying to climb up the rankings through challengers. They only doubled the points for the better players, in the later stages of tournaments. Everyone will lose a lot of points this year. It's a disgrace. They did this without telling the players. We only knew this when we had seen our first ranking on january the first. That's the ATP."

"Then they reased the price money of the ATP tournaments. At some events it even doubled. But in the first and second round and the quarter finals there wasn't even one dollar difference with last season! But from the quarter finals to semi finals they trippled the money. We said to them: Is this how you want to play it? The top guys have enough money from appearance fees alone."

"The tournament of Belgrado. Normally the draw has 32 players. The day the entry list comes out, we see that the draw has only 28 players. The top 4 seeded players got a bye. Without telling anyone! Apparently Novak Djokovic wanted a bye in the first round. Nice!"

Fedace
05-14-2009, 01:55 PM
Yea, i agree with him totally.....

edberg505
05-14-2009, 01:59 PM
I was wondering when one of the players would come out and make this point. It's pretty f'd up to be honest. When I first heard about the change I thought to myself, well this hardly seems fair. Sounds great for the more elite players, but for the guys working their butts off at to bottom just to get a chance to play against some of the elite players it stinks.

FloridaAG
05-14-2009, 01:59 PM
Me too - While anyone can debate the benefits of unionization etc. - there is no question that the everyday player has very little say and very little protection as compared with his peers in other sports.

seffina
05-14-2009, 02:14 PM
Good for Rochus. Deserved to be said.

VGP
05-14-2009, 02:25 PM
At least Christophe is playing better of late. But think of his brother. I was hoping to see him working his way back to form, but if what CR says is true, then it's not only hard for up and comers, but for players coming off injury and illness (protected rankings or not).

Not to mention the conflict of interest in Belgrade.......

stormholloway
05-14-2009, 02:29 PM
Essentially makes the rich richer and the poor poorer. Brilliant.

BorisBeckerFan
05-14-2009, 02:32 PM
PRO Tennis is in the sports entetainment business. The elite players and players with a large fan base will and should take the lions' share of the money. However I think the ATP may have gone way too far in some of their recent changes. You don't go and pee on the little guys.

maverick66
05-14-2009, 03:05 PM
PRO Tennis is in the sports entetainment business. The elite players and players with a large fan base will and should take the lions' share of the money. However I think the ATP may have gone way too far in some of their recent changes. You don't go and pee on the little guys.

thats the problem with the atp. people dont know anyone outside the big 4 and Roddick. They do a crap job promoting others. You dont hear about up and comers or solid guys that can give great matches. I dont know how much control they have over tv coverage but its a joke when there is a 3 set battle going on between guys ranked between 30-50 but i get to watch Nadal or Federer kill someone. They need to show guys with heart and fight. You cant support an entire tennis tour on the backs of 4-5 guys.

P_Agony
05-14-2009, 03:11 PM
thats the problem with the atp. people dont know anyone outside the big 4 and Roddick. They do a crap job promoting others. You dont hear about up and comers or solid guys that can give great matches. I dont know how much control they have over tv coverage but its a joke when there is a 3 set battle going on between guys ranked between 30-50 but i get to watch Nadal or Federer kill someone. They need to show guys with heart and fight. You cant support an entire tennis tour on the backs of 4-5 guys.

Great post.

tacou
05-14-2009, 03:14 PM
agreed Chris

Gorecki
05-14-2009, 03:23 PM
funny how we see Mr Sport Billy, Mr Moobaler and Mr Retirement everyday complainting about blue clay, green clay and grey clay, about lenght of tour, and every other piece of crap... while low profile guys like Rochus only want to play and get payed...

LanceStern
05-14-2009, 03:57 PM
thats the problem with the atp. people dont know anyone outside the big 4 and Roddick. They do a crap job promoting others. You dont hear about up and comers or solid guys that can give great matches. I dont know how much control they have over tv coverage but its a joke when there is a 3 set battle going on between guys ranked between 30-50 but i get to watch Nadal or Federer kill someone. They need to show guys with heart and fight. You cant support an entire tennis tour on the backs of 4-5 guys.

While I agree with you that the ATP should find a way to benefit the lesser-known players, I'd MUCH rather see Fed/Nadal/Djokovic/Murray destroy someone then watch no-names play.

jamesblakefan#1
05-14-2009, 04:12 PM
^^^It's not about that. It's about these guys trying to make an honest effort and get payed for their efforts. They work hard to make the draws at these tourneys and dont get rewarded for it. It's not fair.

maverick66
05-14-2009, 04:27 PM
While I agree with you that the ATP should find a way to benefit the lesser-known players, I'd MUCH rather see Fed/Nadal/Djokovic/Murray destroy someone then watch no-names play.

so you would rather watch someone lose 6-1 6-1 then watch a third set tie break where both guys are giving everything they got? I dont understand that at all.

LanceStern
05-14-2009, 04:34 PM
Yes because I am a big fan of the top 4 and like to see their game, even when they dominate.

You can't get into the match as much when you don't know the people.

maverick66
05-14-2009, 04:41 PM
so your a casual fan?

I would still think it would be better to watch a competitive match then a slaughter. If there playing in these tournies there tennis is a very high level so its not like your watching to weekend warriors. some of the best matches ive seen were of guys outside the top ten.

Melissa
05-14-2009, 05:07 PM
Yes because I am a big fan of the top 4 and like to see their game, even when they dominate.

You can't get into the match as much when you don't know the people.

So you enjoy watching Nadal win over a qualie love and love more than watching a Youzhny-Berdych 6/4,4/6,6/7
match. Interesting.

Venetian
05-14-2009, 05:19 PM
Yes because I am a big fan of the top 4 and like to see their game, even when they dominate.

You can't get into the match as much when you don't know the people.

That's the point dude. You'd know them if there was ever coverage of them on TV.

egn
05-14-2009, 05:21 PM
Yes because I am a big fan of the top 4 and like to see their game, even when they dominate.

You can't get into the match as much when you don't know the people.

So you are not an avid tennis fan obviously. As I can watch any tennis match and get into it as long as it is good. I find myself avoiding first round and second round matches of the top guys usually, televisied only, as i know they are going to usually beat them down. The only way I watch it is if they are facing a good upcomer or some old time great. Normally I prefer battles between the lower ranked guys in the earlier rounds as you see some great tennis.

tenis
05-14-2009, 07:02 PM
...just like the bankers and CEOs me,me, me and only me.
Good job Rochus!

West Coast Ace
05-14-2009, 11:10 PM
PRO Tennis is in the sports entetainment business. The elite players and players with a large fan base will and should take the lions' share of the money. However I think the ATP may have gone way too far in some of their recent changes. You don't go and pee on the little guys.True. But in their defense, there is a little worldwide economic crisis going on. The ATP has to take the long view and do what it thinks is required to maintain the health of the tour. They can't worry about hurting a few guy's feelings. Individual sports like tennis and golf are very high risk, high reward by nature. If C Rochus doesn't like it he can leave the tour and take a salary job as head pro at a club. Guaranteed cash - but little upside year to year.

And I'll take a rare stab at defending Joker - there have been a few other 28 man fields lately - so it's not just him wanting a day off. And the ATP would have to sign off on it.

^^^It's not about that. It's about these guys trying to make an honest effort and get payed for their efforts. They work hard to make the draws at these tourneys and dont get rewarded for it. It's not fair.They are getting paid. And C Rochus has made over $2.2 mil - he's not exactly in a food line.

...just like the bankers and CEOs me,me, me and only me.
Good job Rochus!Oh, geez. An MSNBC viewer. It's all the 'bankers and CEOs' fault that millions of people lied on their loan apps. Are you going to give us the 'Workers of the World Unite' speech?

BorisBeckerFan
05-14-2009, 11:25 PM
True. But in their defense, there is a little worldwide economic crisis going on. The ATP has to take the long view and do what it thinks is required to maintain the health of the tour. They can't worry about hurting a few guy's feelings. Individual sports like tennis and golf are very high risk, high reward by nature. If C Rochus doesn't like it he can leave the tour and take a salary job as head pro at a club. Guaranteed cash - but little upside year to year.

And I'll take a rare stab at defending Joker - there have been a few other 28 man fields lately - so it's not just him wanting a day off. And the ATP would have to sign off on it.

They are getting paid. And C Rochus has made over $2.2 mil - he's not exactly in a food line.

Oh, geez. An MSNBC viewer. It's all the 'bankers and CEOs' fault that millions of people lied on their loan apps. Are you going to give us the 'Workers of the World Unite' speech?

I know what you mean. I had to let go of some people that I really care for as friends. It's sad but I had to prioritze.

VictorS.
05-14-2009, 11:36 PM
The players are what make the sport. However at the end of the day, I'm paying money to see Federer & Nadal play, not christophe rochus...no disrespect.

The elite guys do deserve the most money. This is all results based anyhow. Nothing is guarenteed.

bluetrain4
05-14-2009, 11:55 PM
It's a really important issue because it's really difficult for guys to make money playing tennis. More prize money at challengers, early rounds helps, obviously, and more ranking points also helps indirectly because it enables players to climb the rankings and thus have more chances to make more money.

People have an image of tennis players as making a ton of money because they are, after all, pro athletes.

But, the number of pros who are truly "rich" from tennis, and the number of pros who make a "good" living is much smaller than people suspect.

Look at the yearly prize money lists for tennis vs. golf at various rankings (1, 10, 50, 100, 200, etc.).

In golf in 2008, 104 players on the PGA tour made $1 million in prize money (and that's not including players who play most of their golf on the European or Asian tours where there are more prize-money millionaires). Looking at the year-end prize money list or 2008, only 13 tennis players made $1 million from prize money (of course some players make money from endorsements, apperance fees, etc.) The 150th ranked tennis player isn't anywhere close -- about $175,000 in 2008. And, of course that's minus taxes, living expenses, coaching expenses, travel, etc.

fin-tennis(h)
05-14-2009, 11:57 PM
Is this what we want? Only few top players have money and time to really develope their games. Others just grind through the tourneys and try to get to 2nd or 3rd round to get some money to continue playing. BTW. on ATP many players seem to give up against the top guys because they have to save their energy for those matches they can win. In challengers and futures like half of the guys are considering to retire after every tournament. This is not good for the sport at all.

bluetrain4
05-15-2009, 12:00 AM
The players are what make the sport. However at the end of the day, I'm paying money to see Federer & Nadal play, not christophe rochus...no disrespect.

The elite guys do deserve the most money. This is all results based anyhow. Nothing is guarenteed.

Very true, the elite guys sell the sport. But, they already made way more money. And, we're not talking about direct payment to the elite guys (that comes via apperance fees). We're talking about assigning prize money to certain results (first round loss, quarterfinal loss, etc.), so in theory the new distribution could affect the top guys as well if they lose early.

But beyond prize money, I think the rankings point issue is more important. Rochus makes a good point. How are guys supposed to climb the rankings so they can get automatic entry into maindraws or into big tournament qualifying with the new distribution. Yes, they can still do it, but the ATP made it that much harder.

35ft6
05-15-2009, 12:04 AM
Wow, that sucks. I hope all the players realize they too were once struggling (unless they got fat endorsements before results) and band together to force the ATP to be more fair with the way they distribute money.

35ft6
05-15-2009, 12:06 AM
The players are what make the sport. However at the end of the day, I'm paying money to see Federer & Nadal play, not christophe rochus...no disrespect.But Fed and Nadal weren't always legends. They had to work their way up the rankings. Distributing the prize money in a more equitable way will help future Feds and Nadals survive their breaking in period on the tour.

obsessedtennisfandisorder
05-15-2009, 12:39 AM
next week i will start a thread that will ask some serious questions about
the ATP organisation....what it's role is in world tennis...and the power it has
/should have....I first want the madrid tourny focus to go away first.

I have read books by boris becker/cash/mcenroe and many other high
profile figures...i can't can't remember which one it was who seriously
question the changing of the ATP fromunion in1988 to the organisation it is is now.start 1990
In myopinion:::
It has become a "party" that simply complicates the natural conflicts between
players and tournament directors. sometimes if these conflicts were played out in the open would be much better for the sport...a good example the gasquet case, in theory a union should be on gasquets side
(you may disagree on that gasquet case, which is fine...not really point here)

I'm just questioning whole ATP structure here.

It's original brief 1973 to 1990 I believe was much better.

for example, on this issue of raising prizemoney in later rounds, in theory
this idea would be voted out because only 2 votes would be for it from the top players.eg 1-50..but there should be more than 2 sitting members representing
other players(whole world!)...so who voted this situation (OP point)and
how was it confirmed to happen?

I also have suspicions with regards to masters cup payments...i will find link
but if players play all 9 masters series they get a "bonus"(alot of money)
ON TOP of whatever pmoney they win during the tounry...rich gets richer.

Also there is a lack of information about how money is handled...how much
gatemoney is taken tv rights etc...how much does the ATP redistributeetc.

I will write proper article after this week...and yes I agree with rochus

obsessedtennisfandisorder
05-15-2009, 12:46 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/andymurray/3153463/Andy-Murray-set-for-Masters-bonus-Tennis.html

5th paragraph down.....

I have suggested many ways of solving

the "top players should play europe in fall"

"problem"and doesn't involve money.

the points on offer alone should be enuff.
another debate.

madmanfool
05-15-2009, 01:21 AM
First, there was already a big difference in what the top players get to the others. More then enough if you ask me. They only made it bigger.

Second would Nadal, who did very well in challengers at the age of 16 have it more difficult now? I think so. He got himself in the top 100 quickly back then. Meaning he could already play some ATP tournaments when 16 and obviously learn a lot from it. With the new system he would also have gotten there- it's Nadal after all-, but it would have taken him longer.

Will a player like Dimitrov, who is obviously a future star, have it easy now to make it into the top 100? It's hard for a youngster to perform and win challengers week in and week out for many months. How many youngsters have you seen in the top 100 of late. It's the oldest top 100 in years. They have an advantage because they have the stamina to perform on a regular basis.

Pirao
05-15-2009, 01:39 AM
I agree with Rochus, this sucks. The top players already make more than enough money compared to the other players, no need to make that difference bigger :-?.

tenis
05-17-2009, 04:47 PM
True. But in their defense, there is a little worldwide economic crisis going on. The ATP has to take the long view and do what it thinks is required to maintain the health of the tour. They can't worry about hurting a few guy's feelings. Individual sports like tennis and golf are very high risk, high reward by nature. If C Rochus doesn't like it he can leave the tour and take a salary job as head pro at a club. Guaranteed cash - but little upside year to year.

And I'll take a rare stab at defending Joker - there have been a few other 28 man fields lately - so it's not just him wanting a day off. And the ATP would have to sign off on it.

They are getting paid. And C Rochus has made over $2.2 mil - he's not exactly in a food line.

Oh, geez. An MSNBC viewer. It's all the 'bankers and CEOs' fault that millions of people lied on their loan apps. Are you going to give us the 'Workers of the World Unite' speech?

No, and not NBC viewer, but you're wrong!
They should put more money to the early rounds and lower players instead of the "first class" players - they have enough. The rich getting richer and.........that's what you probably expecting.
BTW, I'm Roger fan.

stanfordtennis alum
05-17-2009, 04:49 PM
i agree with rochus 100%

YK
05-17-2009, 06:07 PM
Kafelnikov said long ago tennis needs more prize money, and everybody got on his butt, with Agassi saying that Kafel needs "to buy more prospective with all that prize money that he'd earned". As usual in life, nobody really cared to listen attentively, as Kafel was referring to prize money for early rounds, comparing incomes of mid-level tennis pros to pros in other sports. This is nothing new.

Dilettante
05-17-2009, 06:09 PM
Rochus has a point.

Tennis360
05-17-2009, 06:44 PM
Rochus has a point.

and a very good point indeed. I fully support his view.

rfprse
05-18-2009, 08:49 AM
I was wondering when one of the players would come out and make this point. It's pretty f'd up to be honest.
Exactly. It's about time or rather long overdue. Players need (to hire) someone to promote their interests full time.

The whole point scheme change was a b.s. from the start.
Let alone the fairness of prize money distribution and ranking points, setting the barrier too high for a newcomer would not be so beneficial to the game.

gj011
05-18-2009, 08:53 AM
This is from Filip Dewulf's blog (former Belgium tennis player) who spoke with Rochus a few days ago:

"They doubled the ATP points this year. But it turns out that in some challengers and first rounds of ATP tournaments the points were not doubled. Meaning it's much harder for players who are trying to climb up the rankings through challengers. They only doubled the points for the better players, in the later stages of tournaments. Everyone will lose a lot of points this year. It's a disgrace. They did this without telling the players. We only knew this when we had seen our first ranking on january the first. That's the ATP."

"Then they reased the price money of the ATP tournaments. At some events it even doubled. But in the first and second round and the quarter finals there wasn't even one dollar difference with last season! But from the quarter finals to semi finals they trippled the money. We said to them: Is this how you want to play it? The top guys have enough money from appearance fees alone."

"The tournament of Belgrado. Normally the draw has 32 players. The day the entry list comes out, we see that the draw has only 28 players. The top 4 seeded players got a bye. Without telling anyone! Apparently Novak Djokovic wanted a bye in the first round. Nice!"

I agree mostly with Rochus, except Belgrade draw was 28 players from the beginning and it is not the only tournament with 28 players draw. It is quite common. Top players play more matches because they go deeper at most of the tournaments they play, and it is fair to give them bye in the first rounds of small tournaments.

Winners or Errors
05-18-2009, 08:59 AM
That's the point dude. You'd know them if there was ever coverage of them on TV.

+1... Duh.

WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis
05-18-2009, 01:49 PM
So you are not an avid tennis fan obviously. As I can watch any tennis match and get into it as long as it is good. I find myself avoiding first round and second round matches of the top guys usually, televisied only, as i know they are going to usually beat them down. The only way I watch it is if they are facing a good upcomer or some old time great. Normally I prefer battles between the lower ranked guys in the earlier rounds as you see some great tennis.

Agreed. And unfortunately the ATP are concerned mostly for the occasional LS viewers who only want to see someone they've seen before, not the ones who actually love the sport of tennis for what it is, day in day out, and all the players involved, especially when its an outstanding match irregardless of what the players rank is.

For those journeyman players, those coming back from injuries (as mentioned) or the newcomers...the totally wop-sided view ATP has to increase the money for those at the top and not the ones fighting it out every week trying to rise up will be more likely to see these ones giving up, and less variety to faces to finally make the "new tier". Sure those ones who get the seedings in Challengers or Futures will fight harder to stay there. Its just really a shame for those ones trying to financially remain able to tour when in effect they haven't gotten a raise from last years "salary" and cost continue to go up for various necessities (airfare, etc.) to stay on tour. Keeping the richer ones there, not necessarily because of superior talent, and shooing the monetary budget econo talents on the stress edge of returning home for good.