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TheNatural
05-17-2009, 05:42 PM
Nadal looks to Paris after Madrid Masters defeat (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i5laJxFwJ7gkRbcfCGcsZDgJzsPg)

MADRID (AFP) Rafael Nadal shrugged off his Madrid Masters final defeat to Roger Federer and insisted that it will not have a detrimental effect on his bid to lift a record fifth successive French Open title.

The world number one saw his 33-match winning run on clay brought to a halt in a one-sided 6-4, 6-4 loss to his old rival in the pair's 20th career meeting.

But Nadal, who has won the last four French Open titles and has never been defeated in Paris, believes the slower, Roland Garros courts will suit him more.

"This means nothing in terms of Paris, it's a completely different surface," said Nadal, who has defeated Federer in the last three French Open finals.

"He was better than me (in Madrid on Sunday) and deserved to win, but the court was very quick and that helped him. I played too short, made too many mistakes and he made the most of that."

For Federer, Sunday's win was a timely boost in his campaign to lift an elusive French Open.

His win ended a five-match, 18-month losing streak against the Spaniard, a run which included three Grand Slam finals - the 2008 French Open and Wimbledon, as well as this year's Australian Open.

It also halted Nadal's 33-match winning streak on clay, a sequence stretching back over a year to the Rome second round in 2008.

Federer fired two aces, his fifth and sixth of the 88-minute final, to wrap up the victory and lift his record in finals against his Spanish rival to 5-11.

Federer now heads into the French Open, which starts next Sunday, with a huge confidence boost after finally defeating the man who stripped him of his Wimbledon title last summer.

"Clearly I'm very happy to win," said Federer. "I played well - you have to against Rafa on clay. There are no easy ways to beat him. I mixed it up well, served well and was dangerous on the return game.

"I took all the right decisions. In the end it looked very comfortable, it was a perfect win.

"It's not like a relief, I was so close to him at Melbourne and Wimbledon. But I always kept the belief that I could beat him again. That's what you need on this kind of surface, I stayed positive.

"I've had some bad losses this year but everything is starting to fall into place, it's the right time to get a victory like this."

Nadal, who had won claycourt titles in Monte Carlo, Barcelona and Rome this spring, was visibly jaded from his semi-final on Saturday when he needed over four hours to defeat Novak Djokovic.

It was a match too far the top seed who was unable to squeeze motivation or power out of a weary body after complaining of problems with his knees in that marathon encounter.

The second-seeded Swiss fired 25 winners against just 12 for Nadal.

The 13-time Grand Slam title winner Federer broke twice while Nadal was unable to convert on any of his four break chances.

Sunday's result gave Federer his seventh career win against the world number one compared to 13 defeats. It was also his 58th title.

"I played four hours on Saturday, so I was tired. But if Roger played just 80 minutes in his semi-final, that's because he was better than me on Saturday."

Federer won 585,000 euros (790,000 dollars) and a car as he extracted some revenge in the pair's first meeting since the Australian Open final five months ago which ended with him reduced to tears.

Nadal still leads Federer 11-5 in finals, including wins in the last three at Roland Garros.

The Spaniard's defeat was only his fifth on clay over 155 matches dating back to 2005.

IvanAndreevich
05-17-2009, 05:44 PM
Why don't you just download some Sampras photos instead of copy-pasting stuff and bolding what you like?

GameSampras
05-17-2009, 05:44 PM
I dont think it means much in relation go RG, but Im sure it will boost Fed's confidence a bit. But I wouldnt want any of Nadal now at RG considering what happened today. Nadal may go off on a bagel spree at RG. Who the hell is going to want to face a ****ed off Nadal on clay?

vtmike
05-17-2009, 05:45 PM
Why don't you just download some Sampras photos instead of copy-pasting stuff and bolding what you like?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Someones getting pretty desperate...

icedevil0289
05-17-2009, 05:46 PM
he is right, to a certain extent. I mean it's still the same surface. Clay is still clay, but madrid certainly played faster and suited those with big serves.

IvanAndreevich
05-17-2009, 05:47 PM
he is right, to a certain extent. I mean it's still the same surface. Clay is still clay, but madrid certainly played faster and suited those with big serves.

I don't think it means NOTHING. It means that Fed is in a winning position against Nadal on clay, he can STILL pull the trigger and actually win. I actually thought he was going to choke right up till the last moment, just as he's done many times in the past.

icedevil0289
05-17-2009, 05:52 PM
I don't think it means NOTHING. It means that Fed is in a winning position against Nadal on clay, he can STILL pull the trigger and actually win. I actually thought he was going to choke right up till the last moment, just as he's done many times in the past.

well of course it doesn't mean nothing, but in the big scheme of things, this match really has no relevance on RG. Completely different conditions, although I don't know why he said completely different surface. It's still clay, but I'm going to assume he meant the conditions. Oh yeah, as far as the choking went, I didn't trust him to serve it out and then when he was down 15-40, I thought it was all over, but to my surprise he came through and I am very happy.

IvanAndreevich
05-17-2009, 05:53 PM
well of course it doesn't mean nothing, but in the big scheme of things, this match really has no relevance on RG. Completely different conditions, although I don't know why he said completely different surface. It's still clay, but I'm going to assume he meant the conditions. Oh yeah, as far as the choking went, I didn't trust him to serve it out and then when he was down 15-40, I thought it was all over, but to my surprise he came through and I am very happy.

It has relevance for RG. No matter that the surface is different. It has mental significance.

icedevil0289
05-17-2009, 05:56 PM
It has relevance for RG. No matter that the surface is different. It has mental significance.

well ofcourse, I will agree with that. That is one of the reasons I am so happy roger won. It will certainly give him some confidence going in, but to be honest, I don't see anything changing. Rafa is still the huge favorite and I truly expect him to easily beat his opponents on his way to the final and win.

AprilFool
05-17-2009, 05:56 PM
I played four hours on Saturday, so I was tired. But if Roger played just 80 minutes in his semi-final, that's because he was better than me on Saturday."

Nadal has class.

BreakPoint
05-17-2009, 05:57 PM
Yes, I agree. The Madrid surface is COMPLETELY different than Roland Garros. The surface at Roland Garros is EXACTLY the same as at Wimbledon and at the Australian Open. That's the ONLY reason Nadal was able to win at RG, Wimbledon, and the AO but wasn't even close to beating Federer in Madrid. :roll: :oops:

IvanAndreevich
05-17-2009, 05:58 PM
well ofcourse, I will agree with that. That is one of the reasons I am so happy roger won. It will certainly give him some confidence going in, but to be honest, I don't see anything changing. Rafa is still the huge favorite and I truly expect him to easily beat his opponents on his way to the final and win.

Maybe my standards are too high, but I also didn't think Nadal played that great in Rome. IMO his form last year was more deadly than this year.

He is the obvious favorite, but he's not infallible as some make him out to be.

vtmike
05-17-2009, 05:58 PM
It has relevance for RG. No matter that the surface is different. It has mental significance.

I agree! Ofcourse the Nadal camp will say that the surface is completely different blah blah blah...They will always try their best to hold onto the mental edge that Nadal has...but it gives a confidence boost to Fed no matter how different the conditions are just because it is still clay in the end...
Will this confidence be enough to beat Nadal? only time will tell...

BreakPoint
05-17-2009, 05:58 PM
I played four hours on Saturday, so I was tired. But if Roger played just 80 minutes in his semi-final, that's because he was better than me on Saturday."

Nadal has class.
Nadal's just speaking the truth, man. :)

Vermillion
05-17-2009, 05:58 PM
$800,000? jesus

bluetrain4
05-17-2009, 05:59 PM
He's right to a certain degree. I really don't expect this loss to zap his confidence, and I'm sure he still fully believes he'll win in Paris. Basically, I wouldn't bet against him just because he lost today.

But, the win for Fed still means something. Granted it will be harder for Fed to win in Paris (if they meet) on the slower surface and over best of 5 sets, but I still think the win completely changes his mindset, gives him confidence, and helped him figure out some things to implement against Nadal on clay.

samster
05-17-2009, 06:00 PM
That's pretty funny, Breakpoint!

samster
05-17-2009, 06:00 PM
$800,000? jesus

not bad for a week's work?

icedevil0289
05-17-2009, 06:01 PM
Maybe my standards are too high, but I also didn't think Nadal played that great in Rome. IMO his form last year was more deadly than this year.

He is the obvious favorite, but he's not infallible as some make him out to be.

Yeah, he certainly hasn't been his best at this tournament and perhaps that could be due to the conditions are the amount of tournaments he played, which by the way is his fault for not managing his schedule, but like you said, he is still the obvious favorite. At RG, if fed makes it to the final, his serve will not be such a huge weapon as it was today. However, if fed can keep it together mentally and execute well, he could have a chance.

vtmike
05-17-2009, 06:01 PM
He's right to a certain degree. I really don't expect this loss to zap his confidence, and I'm sure he still fully believes he'll win in Paris. Basically, I wouldn't bet against him just because he lost today.

But, the win for Fed still means something. Granted it will be harder for Fed to win in Paris (if they meet) on the slower surface and over best of 5 sets, but I still think the win completely changes his mindset, gives him confidence, and helped him figure out some things to implement against Nadal on clay.

Exactly! I agree! Nadal still the favourite going into RG by a mile...but atleast Fed is in a better mental state to challenge him incase they meet again...

raiden031
05-17-2009, 06:02 PM
I agree that the surface is better suited for Federer against Nadal than RG is, but the fact is that Federer played with the right tactics that would work even at RG. It will be more difficult to execute because Nadal will get more shots back plus he has to sustain it for 3-5 sets, so the odds are still against Federer but I think the mind is a powerful thing and he might have more self-believe than he has in previous years. Its no coincidence the guy has won 13 slams. He may have been in a slump or even a decline during the past year, but he's still a champion and still can perform at top notch.

TheNatural
05-17-2009, 06:07 PM
Nadal's just speaking the truth, man. :)

Of course Fed was better in the semi because he faced a much easier semi opponent on clay.(as we know from the last 2 times Fed faced Joker ) :oops:

BreakPoint
05-17-2009, 06:12 PM
Of course Fed was better in the semi because he faced a much easier semi opponent on clay.(as we know from the last 2 times Fed faced Joker on clay) :oops:
Yes, the last two times they played on clay. The first time in which Federer was up a set and a break so Djokovic called it quits due to a sore throat. And the second time in which Federer was up a set and a break and called it quits because he had to go take care of his pregnant wife. :oops:

TheNatural
05-17-2009, 06:19 PM
Yes, the last two times they played on clay. The first time in which Federer was up a set and a break so Djokovic called it quits due to a sore throat. And the second time in which Federer was up a set and a break and called it quits because he had to go take care of his pregnant wife. :oops:

That was the match where Joker won 5 games in a row in set 2 and 5 games in a row in set 3.This is almost like 2 bagels.A little tougher than Facing Del Potro No?:oops: So that was due to Fed taking care of his pregnant while he was on court playing? :roll:

OddJack
05-17-2009, 06:30 PM
It has relevance for RG. No matter that the surface is different. It has mental significance.

I agree. It has mental significance. But look at the stats after the match also. Nadal won only 45% of his second serves, Roger took full advantage of his weakness in that department this time, and if you factor in the slower RG clay this strategy could help him even more.

In the article Nadal mentions he threw too many short balls for Roger, but he actually didnt have much choice. Roger was returning everything to his BH which made it harder to return solid high balls to Roger's BH. When people look at the results they only look at the difference in the clay, there was some difference in the way Roger handled the match this time and too me that's what made the real difference this time around.

IvanAndreevich
05-17-2009, 06:34 PM
I agree. It has mental significance. But look at the stats after the match also. Nadal won only 45% of his second serves, Roger took full advantage of his weakness in that department this time, and if you factor in the slower RG clay this strategy could help him even more.

In the article Nadal mentions he threw too many short balls for Roger, but he actually didnt have much choice. Roger was returning everything to his BH which made it harder to return solid high balls to Roger's BH. When people look at the results they only look at the difference in the clay, there was some difference in the way Roger handled the match this time and too me that's what made the real difference this time around.

I am left thinking that Nadal's BH was seriously underperforming today. It seemed like whenever he went for it even a bit, he missed. It's also been less then stellar lately in other matches. That helped Federer a lot.

BreakPoint
05-17-2009, 06:35 PM
That was the match where Joker won 5 games in a row in set 2 and 5 games in a row in set 3.This is almost like 2 bagels.A little tougher than Facing Del Potro No?:oops: So that was due to Fed taking care of his pregnant while he was on court playing? :roll:
Exactly! Because Federer mentally went into la-la land in the last two sets not because Djokovic played any better. Djokovoc only had to get up off his chair after each changeover to win. Federer had already made his point.

Medved
05-17-2009, 06:39 PM
I think Rafa just gets tired and injured more often. He plays a very demanding physical game. It looked to me like he was just worn out when he played Andy Murray at the U.S. Open last year. As he gets older I think we'll see less of Rafa winning every single tournament and more cases where he surprises everyone at the grand slams, if surprise is even possible for someone who wins so much. Probably like Sampras who used to win every single match for a time as well.

Roger plays with so much more finesse that it doesn't effect him as much. Just like at Wimbledon 2004 when Roddick played so well. It only went 4 sets but Roddick was worked at the end of that match. Federer doesn't even seem tired or sweaty when he loses.

TheNatural
05-17-2009, 06:57 PM
Exactly! Because Federer mentally went into la-la land in the last two sets not because Djokovic played any better. Djokovoc only had to get up off his chair after each changeover to win. Federer had already made his point.

http://www.azillionthings.com/lookytouchy/orly_owl.jpg

TheNatural
05-17-2009, 07:01 PM
Exactly! Because Federer mentally went into la-la land in the last two sets not because Djokovic played any better. Djokovoc only had to get up off his chair after each changeover to win. Federer had already made his point.

I guarantee you that Fed is at home praying that Joker isn't in his half of the draw at Roland Garros.

BreakPoint
05-17-2009, 07:09 PM
I guarantee you that Fed is at home praying that Joker isn't in his half of the draw at Roland Garros.
On the contrary. Federer loves a challenge. He wants to play Djokovic and Nadal because he wants to prove he's the best. In fact, he wants to prove he's better than them at their own games. Why do you think he's spent all these years trying to beat Nadal from the baseline? And why he beat Sampras by serving and volleying?

TheNatural
05-17-2009, 07:53 PM
On the contrary. Federer loves a challenge. He wants to play Djokovic and Nadal because he wants to prove he's the best. In fact, he wants to prove he's better than them at their own games. Why do you think he's spent all these years trying to beat Nadal from the baseline? And why he beat Sampras by serving and volleying?

Fed cannot handle either Joker or Nadal from the baseline. He will lose as soon as he faces either of these at Roland Garros and order will be restored.

BreakPoint
05-17-2009, 07:58 PM
Fed cannot handle either Joker or Nadal from the baseline. He will lose as soon as he faces either of these at Roland Garros and order will be restored.
Yeah, that's what you said before today's final in Madrid and before the US Open semis last year. :oops:

TheNatural
05-17-2009, 08:26 PM
Yeah, that's what you said before today's final in Madrid and before the US Open semis last year. :oops:

That's what I said Before the AO final. Before Madrid I said It was Fed's best chance ever due to Nadal's condition. But they have an extra days rest in the slams so no problems. :)

Just wait and you'll see I'll be right again at Roland Garros.;)

Nadal_Freak
05-17-2009, 08:33 PM
Fed better hope for some dry conditions at RG. Otherwise Nadal will have plenty of time returning Fed's serve. Nadal knows how much better he is with slower clay. See RG 2008 for what Nadal is capable of.

IvanAndreevich
05-17-2009, 08:53 PM
Fed better hope for some dry conditions at RG. Otherwise Nadal will have plenty of time returning Fed's serve. Nadal knows how much better he is with slower clay. See RG 2008 for what Nadal is capable of.

Nah, you better hope for wet conditions. The guy already has $100 mil and 13GS - he's alright. It's you who we should be worried about. If Nadal was to lose you could commit suicide.

Nadal_Freak
05-17-2009, 08:56 PM
Nah, you better hope for wet conditions. The guy already has $100 mil and 13GS - he's alright. It's you who we should be worried about. If Nadal was to lose you could commit suicide.
I'm just fine with Nadal losing. Please stop with the personal attacks. It is quite lame to go that way.

IvanAndreevich
05-17-2009, 09:03 PM
I'm just fine with Nadal losing. Please stop with the personal attacks. It is quite lame to go that way.

You are fine with Nadal losing? Then, when he does, don't post a freaking excuse or say that his opponent didn't deserve to win. Or say that the real final was played yesterday. Or blah blah blah. You get the idea.

Nadal_Freak
05-17-2009, 09:08 PM
You are fine with Nadal losing? Then, when he does, don't post a freaking excuse or say that his opponent didn't deserve to win. Or say that the real final was played yesterday. Or blah blah blah. You get the idea.
I tell it like I see it. I get very annoyed with Fed fans as well. They are very annoying when given the opportunity to be so. So many horrible threads after this match today.

IvanAndreevich
05-17-2009, 09:13 PM
I tell it like I see it. I get very annoyed with Fed fans as well. They are very annoying when given the opportunity to be so. So many horrible threads after this match today.

Yeah, you have an awesome objective lens through which you see plenty of potential excuses (sometimes ahead of time) for every single Nadal loss.

I am not doubting the fact that some of the Fed fans come with excuses too. But there isn't a single one out there who's come with more excuses for Fed than you've come with for Nadal.

According to you, when was the last time Nadal was beaten fair and square by a better opponent?

Nadal_Freak
05-17-2009, 09:19 PM
Yeah, you have an awesome objective lens through which you see plenty of potential excuses (sometimes ahead of time) for every single Nadal loss.

I am not doubting the fact that some of the Fed fans come with excuses too. But there isn't a single one out there who's come with more excuses for Fed than you've come with for Nadal.

According to you, when was the last time Nadal was beaten fair and square by a better opponent?
Nadal rarely loses but Nadal lost without any problems but a bad attitude over in Miami to Del Potro. Humidity was overwhelming as well. Not that's an excuse. It's just not Nadal's preferred conditions. Get my point?

IvanAndreevich
05-17-2009, 09:24 PM
Nadal rarely loses but Nadal lost without any problems but a bad attitude over in Miami to Del Potro. Humidity was overwhelming as well. Not that's an excuse. It's just not Nadal's preferred conditions. Get my point?

This is great. You have 2 reasons there which you claim had affected his loss there: bad attitude and humidity.

Let me try this again.

When was the last time Nadal lost when he played his best tennis and the ONLY reason you can give is that his opponent kicked his *** by playing better tennis?

What I am asking is a player and a date, no sort of explanation. Otherwise there could be more reasons within the explanation.

Nadal_Freak
05-17-2009, 09:33 PM
This is great. You have 2 reasons there which you claim had affected his loss there: bad attitude and humidity.

Let me try this again.

When was the last time Nadal lost when he played his best tennis and the ONLY reason you can give is that his opponent kicked his *** by playing better tennis?

What I am asking is a player and a date, no sort of explanation. Otherwise there could be more reasons within the explanation.
Those are conditions and Nadal's fault to it getting to him. They are not excuses and Del Potro deserved that match. But if Nadal chose a hard court tournament to suit him, Miami is not it due to the humidity.

Antonio Puente
05-17-2009, 09:35 PM
When was the last time Nadal lost when he played his best tennis and the ONLY reason you can give is that his opponent kicked his *** by playing better tennis?
.

You have to admit, it's been a while. Currently, if he plays his best tennis, he's practically unbeatable. That's just a fact. The same was true of Fed a few years ago.

IvanAndreevich
05-17-2009, 09:38 PM
You have to admit, it's been a while. Currently, if he plays his best tennis, he's practically unbeatable. That's just a fact. The same was true of Fed a few years ago.
Well, I don't have to admit anything I am just asking a question. Would you like to provide an answer from your perspective to my question?

Those are conditions and Nadal's fault to it getting to him. They are not excuses and Del Potro deserved that match. But if Nadal chose a hard court tournament to suit him, Miami is not it due to the humidity.

Alright, so what you are saying is that Nadal played his best in Miami 2009 and Del Potro was the better player?

Nadal_Freak
05-18-2009, 05:41 AM
Alright, so what you are saying is that Nadal played his best in Miami 2009 and Del Potro was the better player?
No one beats Nadal playing his best. Nadal played respectable and Del Potro played great. I would say Nadal played very well against Verdasco and almost lost at the Australian Open.

nikdom
05-18-2009, 05:48 AM
No one beats Nadal playing his best.

Whatever. There is no way to verify such stupid things and they only exist in the minds of delusional fans. He was playing solid at AO 2008.. I remember Tsonga kicked his asss pretty good.

Nadal_Freak
05-18-2009, 05:50 AM
Whatever. There is no way to verify such stupid things and they only exist in the minds of delusional fans. He was playing solid at AO 2008.. I remember Tsonga kicked his asss pretty good.
Nadal played horrible against Tsonga. He was hitting everything short. You are obviously a hater.

drakulie
05-18-2009, 05:54 AM
Nadal played horrible against Tsonga. He was hitting everything short. You are obviously a hater.


Stop hating on Rafa. I know you are trying very hard to paint a picture of him being a wuss, but we are not buying it.

cknobman
05-18-2009, 05:59 AM
I don't think it means NOTHING. It means that Fed is in a winning position against Nadal on clay, he can STILL pull the trigger and actually win. I actually thought he was going to choke right up till the last moment, just as he's done many times in the past.

well of course it doesn't mean nothing, but in the big scheme of things, this match really has no relevance on RG. Completely different conditions, although I don't know why he said completely different surface. It's still clay, but I'm going to assume he meant the conditions. Oh yeah, as far as the choking went, I didn't trust him to serve it out and then when he was down 15-40, I thought it was all over, but to my surprise he came through and I am very happy.

When it was 15-40 I started shaking my head thinking "Here we f_cking go again" I had the control in my hand and was prepared to turn the tv off if Roger had lost the game because that would have all but been game set match for Rafa.

nikdom
05-18-2009, 06:01 AM
How Arrogant!
:)

cknobman
05-18-2009, 06:02 AM
This is great. You have 2 reasons there which you claim had affected his loss there: bad attitude and humidity.

Let me try this again.

When was the last time Nadal lost when he played his best tennis and the ONLY reason you can give is that his opponent kicked his *** by playing better tennis?

What I am asking is a player and a date, no sort of explanation. Otherwise there could be more reasons within the explanation.

Roger Federer, Wimbleton 07

Nadal_Freak
05-18-2009, 06:03 AM
Roger Federer, Wimbleton 07
He played his best until he got that knee injury. That altered that match.

vtmike
05-18-2009, 06:04 AM
Roger Federer, Wimbleton 07

Nope according to TheUnnatural, Nadal had knee tendinitis or something...well basically his knee was busted otherwise he would've kicked Fed's *****!

Hahahaha what did I say? Another example above ^^^

cknobman
05-18-2009, 06:07 AM
Youd have to be a fool not to have Rafa as a favorite in Paris.

True this loss dosnt mean a thing for Rafa. Paris is different and he is sure of his ability on surface.

BUT for Fed this win meant quite a bit to him.
First win against a top 3 player in over half a year.
First title in over half a year.
Beat Nadal on is best surface.
Maybe silence(or at least temporarily subdue) critics for a few weeks.
Prove to himself that if he goes on court with a defined gameplan and executes it he can be successful.

drakulie
05-18-2009, 06:13 AM
He played his best until he got that knee injury. That altered that match.

Yup, good call. Rafa is a wuss. (always something wrong with him, which expains the constant butt picking <hemorrhoids>)

Nadal_Freak
05-18-2009, 06:14 AM
Yup, good call. Rafa is a wuss. (always something wrong with him, which expains the constant butt picking <hemorrhoids>)
You are the biggest Nadal hater here.

drakulie
05-18-2009, 06:16 AM
You are the biggest Nadal hater here.


Hahahahaha! LOL.

**YOU** are the one always painting him to be a sissy.

ninman
05-18-2009, 06:18 AM
Hahahahaha! LOL.

**YOU** are the one always painting him to be a sissy.

But we all know how tired Nadal gets, jeesh. I mean if they gave wins to players because they were injured or tired, Nadal would have been undefeated for his entire career so far. Isn't that obvious?

thejoe
05-18-2009, 06:22 AM
Hahahahaha! LOL.

**YOU** are the one always painting him to be a sissy.

I love this approach. I get annoyed reading his posts, but you've found a great way of combatting him.

Nadal_Freak
05-18-2009, 06:25 AM
I love this approach. I get annoyed reading his posts, but you've found a great way of combatting him.
Injuries have nothing to do with how tough you are. They are uncontrollable. Most players would've retired. Not Nadal though. He fights no matter how bad of shape he is in. See his match against Murray in Rotterdam and his match at Rome against Ferrero for proof.

thejoe
05-18-2009, 06:27 AM
Injuries have nothing to do with how tough you are. They are uncontrollable. Most players would've retired. Not Nadal though. He fights no matter how bad of shape he is in. See his match against Murray in Rotterdam and his match at Rome against Ferrero for proof.

Or his match against Davydenko in Paris. Man he was a real trooper there...

It just seems strange that you constantly talk up his fitness, yet from the third month of the year comment on how shattered he is.

TheNatural
05-18-2009, 06:31 AM
Nope according to TheUnnatural, Nadal had knee tendinitis or something...well basically his knee was busted otherwise he would've kicked Fed's *****!

Hahahaha what did I say? Another example above ^^^

Not according to me, according to everyone. And in his US open blog when he busted it at the US Open in practice he said that the pain when he busted it at the US Open was EXACTLY how it felt when he busted it at Wimbledon final. He couldn't move his leg for a few days and as you know he was at 30-40% throughout the US Open and should have pulled out. And that 30% condition for his first round was after 3-4 days of rest and special lazer treatment after he busted the knee, so you can imagine how it felt immediately after he busted it at the Wimbledon final.

Nadal_Freak
05-18-2009, 06:31 AM
Or his match against Davydenko in Paris. Man he was a real trooper there...

It just seems strange that you constantly talk up his fitness, yet from the third month of the year comment on how shattered he is.
Uncle Toni demands he plays a lot. Too bad that he can't give himself breaks. It would really help him imo.

drakulie
05-18-2009, 06:37 AM
Uncle Toni demands he plays a lot.

Yup, just like Cinderella. Poor,poor Rafa. :(

So, you are now saying his new nick name is >>>>>>>>>> CinderRafa???

Cesc Fabregas
05-18-2009, 06:41 AM
Or his match against Davydenko in Paris. Man he was a real trooper there...

It just seems strange that you constantly talk up his fitness, yet from the third month of the year comment on how shattered he is.

Nadal could barely walk after that he was out for months with a knee injury theres no way he could have continued he missed the Masters and DC final so how could he have carried on?

GS
05-18-2009, 06:51 AM
"This means nothing in terms of Paris---it's a completely different surface." Nadal is right---that experimental blue clay court in Madrid looks completely different from Paris' red clay. But European red clay courts, in 2 countries that are close to each other, should play pretty similar....

stormholloway
05-18-2009, 06:59 AM
Completely different surface? Sorry, no. It's still clay. By definition it isn't completely different. Is there any evidence the courts are constructed any differently?

I think the weather and altitude probably affect conditions more than the surface.

fedtastic
05-18-2009, 07:44 AM
"I played four hours on Saturday, so I was tired. But if Roger played just 80 minutes in his semi-final, that's because he was better than me on Saturday."


I like how you have focused on the first bit and left the rest of the statement. He says in the red highlighted part that it was Rafa's own fault that he couldn't defeat Djokovic easily because of his passive and grinding game. He says he is responsible for being a chicken and not going for winners. Yet Rafa fans here blame it on the draw. :rolleyes:

Federer usually has more gas in the tank because he rarely goes to 5 sets matches even in the Grand Slams because he knows he wants to stay fresh for the finals. Roger finishes the points quickly by taking risks and hitting winners while Rafa's whole game is based on grinding and hitting with high margin of error. If Rafa wants a career like Fed he has to be more aggressive.

I salute Rafa for saying that it is his own fault that he is tired but the *******s here are truelly pathetic.

tudwell
05-18-2009, 07:56 AM
Nadal is arrogant.

TheNatural
05-18-2009, 08:16 AM
I like how you have focused on the first bit and left the rest of the statement. He says in the red highlighted part that it was Rafa's own fault that he couldn't defeat Djokovic easily because of his passive and grinding game. He says he is responsible for being a chicken and not going for winners. Yet Rafa fans here blame it on the draw. :rolleyes:

Federer usually has more gas in the tank because he rarely goes to 5 sets matches even in the Grand Slams because he knows he wants to stay fresh for the finals. Roger finishes the points quickly by taking risks and hitting winners while Rafa's whole game is based on grinding and hitting with high margin of error. If Rafa wants a career like Fed he has to be more aggressive.

I salute Rafa for saying that it is his own fault that he is tired but the *******s here are truelly pathetic.


Fed's risks wouldn't have worked if he played Joker in the semi. It was proven the last 2 times they played. Rafa was just unlucky to play Joker in the form he was in. Fed had a far easier semi opponent then Fed just beat a dead Nadal.

maximo
05-18-2009, 08:19 AM
Please Fed fans, tell me that you don't believe he can beat a fit Nadal at RG.

LeftySpin
05-18-2009, 08:27 AM
I think everyone just needs to accept that Federer played very. Nadal himself said that being tired was his fault. End of story. These constant excuses are making Nadal look bad, when he admitted that it's no one else fault but his own. Maybe he was tired but he said himself that his loss was because Federer played well and he didn't. He isn't making the excuses for himself, we are. This in turn is starting to make him look really bad.

drakulie
05-18-2009, 08:30 AM
Please Fed fans, tell me that you don't believe he can beat a fit Nadal at RG.


Nobody can beat a "fit" Nadal anywhere becaus accroding to his fans (erhm, I mean haters) on this board>>>>> he has never been fit (100% healthy). You know,,,,,, kind of like Serena Williams.

stormholloway
05-18-2009, 08:37 AM
Fed's risks wouldn't have worked if he played Joker in the semi. It was proven the last 2 times they played. Rafa was just unlucky to play Joker in the form he was in. Fed had a far easier semi opponent then Fed just beat a dead Nadal.

Brilliant. You've proven something based on a past event. If Federer lost to Djokovic, that means he won't ever beat him in the future. Good logic.

It's Nadal's fault for being dead, if he really was (3 sets people...). He should find a style that doesn't require so much grinding. This is the number one tennis player in the world. If he can't recover after a 3 setter than that's his own fault.

Your logic in general is just bizarre. Fed's risks have worked against Djokovic more times than not. Federer was also clearly playing better tennis in Madrid than he was in Rome and Miami.

Lion King
05-18-2009, 08:58 AM
he is right, to a certain extent. I mean it's still the same surface. Clay is still clay, but madrid certainly played faster and suited those with big serves.

Interesting... the last two times Fed beat Rafa on clay were in exactly opposite conditions: the slow, low-bouncing clay of sea-level Hamburg and the fast, high-bouncing clay of high-altitude Madrid. Why not RG, then? Is it the 5-setter effect?

IvanAndreevich
05-18-2009, 09:05 AM
No one beats Nadal playing his best. Nadal played respectable and Del Potro played great. I would say Nadal played very well against Verdasco and almost lost at the Australian Open.

This is actually the answer I've been trying to extract from you.

Just to clarify. What you are saying is that Nadal, at his best, is the best tennis player to have ever set foot on this planet. On any surface. Since, according to you, he's never been beaten playing his best tennis.

Every time that he has lost the match was on his racquet and some special conditions didn't not allow him to win.

So every time that Nadal has ever lost there is an asterix next to the winner's name, just like there is an asteryx next to Federer's name after winning this match.

Right?

icazares
05-18-2009, 09:08 AM
Nadal is the heavy favorite by a mile. I see only one potential threat: a semi with Djokovic similar to what we saw on Saturday. However, given that it's a best of 5, I absolutely doubt that Djoko can win, so the real threat is a worn down Nadal playing Rog/Murray in the final. Nonetheless, it is true that the altitude was a factor, which makes me think that the matches of Sat and Sun have a very low chance of being replicated and Nadal's probability of winning RG is north of 95%.

On the other hand, the altitude effect makes me think that Nadal has been very lucky with the changes in the surfaces of the last few years, especially Wimbledon. I lived many years in Bogota, where the ball it's pretty much like a rocket (besides Colombians prefer a heavy Tretorn ball, so it's a different sport there). I only had some consistent wins in tournaments in lower altitudes, never lucky in Bogota. When I go there now I have enough with one hour of tennis, the altitude really brings me down. Of course Madrid is neither Bogota nor Mexico City, but the altitude effect is undeniable.

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 09:13 AM
Uncle Toni demands he plays a lot. Too bad that he can't give himself breaks. It would really help him imo.
I disagree: in 2004 Nadal played 18 tournaments, in 2005 21, in 2006 16, in 2007 20, in 2008 19. Those are very conservative numbers for a top player (look at how many tournaments Davydenko plays a year for instance!)
I don't see the loss in Madrid as a "problem". Nadal had won 3 tournaments in 3 weeks and he needed a break or was due for a lesser performance soon, quite natural IMO. It would have been the same for any other player. I find it more amazing that he DID make the final in Madrid. I wasn't expecting him to do so well given the circumstances and maybe I was right as he might have lost earlier if he hadn't had a walkover before the quarters.

Lion King
05-18-2009, 09:14 AM
Please Fed fans, tell me that you don't believe he can beat a fit Nadal at RG.

I'm a Fed fan and I'm telling you he will have a hard time beating a fit and rested Rafa in Paris. Does that make you happy? :)

Lion King
05-18-2009, 09:15 AM
Brilliant. You've proven something based on a past event. If Federer lost to Djokovic, that means he won't ever beat him in the future. Good logic.

It's Nadal's fault for being dead, if he really was (3 sets people...). He should find a style that doesn't require so much grinding. This is the number one tennis player in the world. If he can't recover after a 3 setter than that's his own fault.

Your logic in general is just bizarre. Fed's risks have worked against Djokovic more times than not. Federer was also clearly playing better tennis in Madrid than he was in Rome and Miami.

Well, it was a 4-hour three-setter, with less than 24 hours to recover.

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 09:15 AM
Interesting... the last two times Fed beat Rafa on clay were in exactly opposite conditions: the slow, low-bouncing clay of sea-level Hamburg and the fast, high-bouncing clay of high-altitude Madrid. Why not RG, then? Is it the 5-setter effect?
It's the way Nadal plays when he's not burned out. Big difference. But Federer is still looking for answers which is a good thing for him.

Lion King
05-18-2009, 09:18 AM
It's the way Nadal plays when he's not burned out. Big difference. But Federer is still looking for answers which is a good thing for him.

Was Rafa burned out in Hamburg?

IvanAndreevich
05-18-2009, 09:28 AM
It's the way Nadal plays when he's not burned out. Big difference. But Federer is still looking for answers which is a good thing for him.

So, according to you, when was Nadal 100% fresh and fit and playing his best tennis and got handed out an *** whooping by another player who was playing better?

Was Rafa burned out in Hamburg?

Duh! Otherwise how would he lose to Federer? He wasn't burned out in the first set, though, cause he won that comfortably.

Gemini
05-18-2009, 09:29 AM
That's one of the few times I've heard true "sour grapes" from Nadal. To say that the surface is different is an invalid excuse. To say it means nothing..well..that's his own way of dealing with the loss psychologically in my opinion. It was only a matter of time before he lost a match on clay. Djokovic came close twice this season to upsetting him.

GasquetGOAT
05-18-2009, 09:30 AM
delete post

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 09:31 AM
Was Rafa burned out in Hamburg?
Hamburg 2007? Yes.
Hamburg 2008? Not so much because he had lost in the first round in Rome.

danb
05-18-2009, 09:33 AM
Exactly! I agree! Nadal still the favourite going into RG by a mile...but atleast Fed is in a better mental state to challenge him incase they meet again...

Actually I am surprised people don't take more seriously Fed's win. As a Rafa fan I am a bit worried. We will see at RG. If Fed's mental state will be the same as in Madrid he can win RG.

danb
05-18-2009, 09:36 AM
That's one of the few times I've heard true "sour grapes" from Nadal. To say that the surface is different is an invalid excuse. To say it means nothing..well..that's his own way of dealing with the loss psychologically in my opinion. It was only a matter of time before he lost a match on clay. Djokovic came close twice this season to upsetting him.

Unfortunately you're right. Fed won fair and square. No BS.

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 09:37 AM
That's one of the few times I've heard true "sour grapes" from Nadal. To say that the surface is different is an invalid excuse. To say it means nothing..well..that's his own way of dealing with the loss psychologically in my opinion. It was only a matter of time before he lost a match on clay. Djokovic came close twice this season to upsetting him.
A loss never means nothing but it's not necessarily the end of the world either. Great players find ways to bounce back from them.
The Madrid clay is different from RG clay, that's a fact, so Madrid is not the most relevant tournament to predict RG outcome.

maximo
05-18-2009, 09:39 AM
I think the loss was more Nadal being tired than the clay being fast.

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 09:39 AM
Actually I am surprised people don't take more seriously Fed's win. As a Rafa fan I am a bit worried. We will see at RG. If Fed's mental state will be the same as in Madrid he can win RG.
RG plays nothing like Madrid but sure Federer is a very dangerous player on all surfaces. I really don't think Nadal takes the victory for granted at all and we shouldn't either.

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 09:41 AM
So, according to you, when was Nadal 100% fresh and fit and playing his best tennis and got handed out an *** whooping by another player who was playing better?



Duh! Otherwise how would he lose to Federer? He wasn't burned out in the first set, though, cause he won that comfortably.
I would say Wimby 2006 is a good example of that, AO 2008 as well, many more I'm sure, I just quoted the first 2 that came to my mind where I remember him being fresh and losing.

drakulie
05-18-2009, 09:42 AM
The Madrid clay is different from RG clay, that's a fact, so Madrid is not the most relevant tournament to predict RG outcome.

What is??? The har tru courts of south florida???

stormholloway
05-18-2009, 09:46 AM
Well, it was a 4-hour three-setter, with less than 24 hours to recover.

I think that time has been exposed a bit. They took a lot of time between points. Those rules seemed to be disregarded.

cknobman
05-18-2009, 09:46 AM
A loss never means nothing but it's not necessarily the end of the world either. Great players find ways to bounce back from them.
The Madrid clay is different from RG clay, that's a fact, so Madrid is not the most relevant tournament to predict RG outcome.

vernoq the clay itself isnt different. The court at madrid is a littler firmer and the altitude is higher causing increased ball flight.

stormholloway
05-18-2009, 09:47 AM
The Madrid clay is different from RG clay, that's a fact, so Madrid is not the most relevant tournament to predict RG outcome.

If it's a fact then we can all assume that you have proof of this right? Why don't you show us anyway.

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 09:48 AM
What is??? The har tru courts of south florida???
Probably Monte-Carlo, closest conditions to RG.

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 09:50 AM
If it's a fact then we can all assume that you have proof of this right? Why don't you show us anyway.
It's much faster than RG (among other things like altitude and clay quality). Proof? People have been talking about it all week... Where have you been?

drakulie
05-18-2009, 09:51 AM
Probably Monte-Carlo, closest conditions to RG.


Try again.

stormholloway
05-18-2009, 09:51 AM
It's much faster than RG. Proof? People have been talking about it all week... Where have you been?

You said the CLAY WAS DIFFERENT. How is the clay different? Different conditions can affect play. That doesn't mean the clay is different.

Now, where is the proof that the clay is different?

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 09:52 AM
vernoq the clay itself isnt different. The court at madrid is a littler firmer and the altitude is higher causing increased ball flight.
Yeah I would say much firmer actually, try hard with a little dirt on top!

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 09:53 AM
Try again.
No thanks, I did well the first time.

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 09:54 AM
You said the CLAY WAS DIFFERENT. How is the clay different? Different conditions can affect play. That doesn't mean the clay is different.

Now, where is the proof that the clay is different?
That's what I meant, the clay conditions are different, also it seemed very thin in places.

drakulie
05-18-2009, 10:00 AM
No thanks, I did well the first time.

You have yet to do well in any of your hateful posts towards Nadal.

tudwell
05-18-2009, 10:09 AM
How come when Nadal has a week of rest before Madrid (or Hamburg in previous years), he's tired, but when he has a week of rest before the French Open, he's fresh?

edberg505
05-18-2009, 10:18 AM
I disagree: in 2004 Nadal played 18 tournaments, in 2005 21, in 2006 16, in 2007 20, in 2008 19. Those are very conservative numbers for a top player (look at how many tournaments Davydenko plays a year for instance!)
I don't see the loss in Madrid as a "problem". Nadal had won 3 tournaments in 3 weeks and he needed a break or was due for a lesser performance soon, quite natural IMO. It would have been the same for any other player. I find it more amazing that he DID make the final in Madrid. I wasn't expecting him to do so well given the circumstances and maybe I was right as he might have lost earlier if he hadn't had a walkover before the quarters.

Lose to Philipp Kohlschreiber, surely you can't be serious.

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 10:21 AM
Lose to Philipp Kohlschreiber, surely you can't be serious.
Not to Kohl, to Verdasco possibly.

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 10:28 AM
How come when Nadal has a week of rest before Madrid (or Hamburg in previous years), he's tired, but when he has a week of rest before the French Open, he's fresh?
I don't know how fresh he will be at RG but 3 titles in 3 weeks (including 2 masters) is a lot even after a week off.
I don't think anybody will ever win the 3 masters + RG, noone has and it doesn't seem very feasible to me. Clay is the only season with 3 masters.
The first hard court season is 1 slam + 2 masters (AO, IW, Miami).
The summer hard court season is 2 masters + 1 slam (Canada, Cinci, USO)
The indoor season is 2 masters + TMC.
The clay sweep is impossible, the other probably are but still very rare. The most common would be the first 1: AO + 2 masters because it's the beginning of the season and players are still fresh. Conversely, the indoor one would be the least common because it's at the end of the year and noone is fresh enough to do it. The clay one is simply impossible to pull (too many tournaments in too short a time).

stormholloway
05-18-2009, 10:30 AM
That's what I meant, the clay conditions are different, also it seemed very thin in places.

Hah.

I'm glad you can detect such nuances in the court surface from your sofa. I'm impressed.

Don't you see how silly you're being? You've come here to make excuses for your boy's loss. It was two men on a tennis court with racquets, balls, and a net. Your boy lost. It's one match. Deal with it with grace instead of whatever this is.

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 10:37 AM
Hah.

I'm glad you can detect such nuances in the court surface from your sofa. I'm impressed.

Don't you see how silly you're being? You've come here to make excuses for your boy's loss. It was two men on a tennis court with racquets, balls, and a net. Your boy lost. It's one match. Deal with it with grace instead of whatever this is.
I'm just saying Madrid doesn't play like RG. It's not an excuse, it's a fact. Federer himself described the conditions as faster and better for big servers. Was Federer trying to come up with an excuse for his future win? :rolleyes: I assume not...

Tennis_Bum
05-18-2009, 11:12 AM
Why don't you just download some Sampras photos instead of copy-pasting stuff and bolding what you like?

That's funny. Isn't clay is clay? Isn't Nadal considered the King of Clay? So why did he say Madrid was different from Paris. I know there are fast clay and slow clay, altitude, etc. But isn't Nadal called the King of Clay, so would you think the King could adjust to various surfaces of clay?

Man, when the guy lost a match, he was either tired, injured or played on faster surface and the lost didn't mean anything in terms of next even, blah, blah, blah.

That win helped Fed's confidence but it would also dent some of Nadal's shield because in his mind he knows Djoko is around the corner waiting to take him, whether down or not is remained to be seen, and Fed can beat him on clay, of course not yet at RG.

Could it be this year?

CyBorg
05-18-2009, 11:15 AM
The excuses are a bit annoying, but one can tell from the way Roger was hitting the backhand that the bounce was more to his liking. He was following through the ball effortlessly, rather than reaching for it.

I expect nothing but deja vu at Roland Garros this year. Except the Federer-Djokkovic dynamic may change.

Cesc Fabregas
05-18-2009, 11:18 AM
The excuses are a bit annoying, but one can tell from the way Roger was hitting the backhand that the bounce was more to his liking. He was following through the ball effortlessly, rather than reaching for it.

I expect nothing but deja vu at Roland Garros this year. Except the Federer-Djokkovic dynamic may change.

Exactly and the clay at Madrid is really hard to keep your footing on so Nadal will defend much better on the RG clay.

Antonio Puente
05-18-2009, 11:24 AM
Same clay, but at altitude, it dries out and becomes finer. This was obvious to the naked eye by the amount of dust being kicked up and the noticeable thin patches across the court. Is this actually news to anyone who watched the tournament? The players themselves said it was like playing on a hardcourt. Hell, after a bad first set, Andy Roddick looked good on the stuff.

raiden031
05-18-2009, 11:53 AM
How come when Nadal has a week of rest before Madrid (or Hamburg in previous years), he's tired, but when he has a week of rest before the French Open, he's fresh?

Somehow Nadal was too tired to play this match after a 3-setter with Djokovic, but he will EASILY win 7 matches at RG that are each going to be a minimum of 3 sets a piece, adding also the fact that RG is exponentially slower than Madrid, which means even longer points. Sounds like there is some contradiction there.


That's funny. Isn't clay is clay? Isn't Nadal considered the King of Clay? So why did he say Madrid was different from Paris. I know there are fast clay and slow clay, altitude, etc. But isn't Nadal called the King of Clay, so would you think the King could adjust to various surfaces of clay?


Actually Nadal is not the King of Clay...that is a myth. He is actually the King of Ultra-Slow Red Clay at Normal Altitudes (KUSRCNA).

maximo
05-18-2009, 11:54 AM
Somehow Nadal was too tired to play this match after a 3-setter with Djokovic, but he will EASILY win 7 matches at RG that are each going to be a minimum of 3 sets a piece, adding also the fact that RG is exponentially slower than Madrid, which means even longer points. Sounds like there is some contradiction there.



Actually Nadal is not the King of Clay...that is a myth. He is actually the King of slow red clay at normal altitudes.

Yes, but generally speaking...

edberg505
05-18-2009, 11:59 AM
Not to Kohl, to Verdasco possibly.

Verdasco had as much of a chance to beat Nadal as a one legged man has winning an ***** kicking contest. Not buying it.

sureshs
05-18-2009, 12:04 PM
Somehow Nadal was too tired to play this match after a 3-setter with Djokovic, but he will EASILY win 7 matches at RG that are each going to be a minimum of 3 sets a piece, adding also the fact that RG is exponentially slower than Madrid, which means even longer points. Sounds like there is some contradiction there.



Actually Nadal is not the King of Clay...that is a myth. He is actually the King of Ultra-Slow Red Clay at Normal Altitudes (KUSRCNA).

Nadal sucks on other surfaces like Wimbledon and AO, where he hasn't won anything. He also sucks on clay because he only won 3 out of 4 consecutive titles so far.

Bhagi Katbamna
05-18-2009, 12:06 PM
Verdasco had as much of a chance to beat Nadal as a one legged man has winning an ***** kicking contest. Not buying it.

My son, you need to watch the original Karate Kid.

;)

All-rounder
05-18-2009, 12:07 PM
If federer lost would the majority be saying the same thing

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 12:10 PM
If federer lost would the majority be saying the same thing
We've been saying it all along. Maybe you weren't paying attention...
We've been saying Madrid is a bad preparation for RG (because of drastically different conditions) for months now!

Gemini
05-18-2009, 12:14 PM
Somehow Nadal was too tired to play this match after a 3-setter with Djokovic, but he will EASILY win 7 matches at RG that are each going to be a minimum of 3 sets a piece, adding also the fact that RG is exponentially slower than Madrid, which means even longer points. Sounds like there is some contradiction there.



Actually Nadal is not the King of Clay...that is a myth. He is actually the King of Ultra-Slow Red Clay at Normal Altitudes (KUSRCNA).

LOL!! Gotta love adjectives. They are great qualifiiers. It's like being the biggest-server-under-6ft-and-over-the-age-of-30-in-the-155lb-weight-class.

To veroniquem:

Granted the conditions were drier and faster in Madrid (than potentially RG will be) but it doesn't mean Nadal should not have triumphed because he's the best dirtballer in the world is he not? It would've been better of him to just say that Federer outplayed him today, in particular the critical points.

But to say that the court was a critical element in Nadal's loss..that's bogus. The guy's beaten Federer (on the third attempt) in his (Federer's) own house at Wimbledon. So was the grass at Wimbledon last year playing like the clay at RG? What I'm getting at is that you adapt to the surface if you want to win. Federer did it better in Madrid.

raiden031
05-18-2009, 12:28 PM
Granted the conditions were drier and faster in Madrid (than potentially RG will be) but doesn't mean Nadal should not have triumphed because he's the best dirtballer in the world is he not? It would've been better of him to just say that Federer outplayed him today, in particular the critical points.

But to say that the court was a critical element in Nadal's loss..that's bogus. The guy's beaten Federer (on the third attempt) in his own house at Wimbledon. So was the grass at Wimbledon last year playing like the clay at RG? What I'm getting at is that you adapt to the surface if you want to win. Federer did it better in Madrid.

I think Nadal gave Federer the credit he deserved. I think he was taken a little out of context about the surface. He just stated he doesn't think this outcome will have an effect on RG because the surfaces are so different. So its not like Nadal himself said this doesn't count, but those who take things out of context do.

I definitely don't remember all us Fed fans blaming the surface for Nadal's victory at Wimbledon and AO though. I feel like most of us were disappointed in Fed's performance, and not looking for excuses like the Nadal fans.

veroniquem
05-18-2009, 12:40 PM
LOL!! Gotta love adjectives. They are great qualifiiers. It's like being the biggest-server-under-6ft-and-over-the-age-of-30-in-the-155lb-weight-class.

To veroniquem:

Granted the conditions were drier and faster in Madrid (than potentially RG will be) but it doesn't mean Nadal should not have triumphed because he's the best dirtballer in the world is he not? It would've been better of him to just say that Federer outplayed him today, in particular the critical points.

But to say that the court was a critical element in Nadal's loss..that's bogus. The guy's beaten Federer (on the third attempt) in his (Federer's) own house at Wimbledon. So was the grass at Wimbledon last year playing like the clay at RG? What I'm getting at is that you adapt to the surface if you want to win. Federer did it better in Madrid.
The court was not the critical element but Nadal had already won 2 masters and a 500 on clay this season. Don't make it sound like not winning this one should be a devastating failure. He can't win them all and frankly why should he? I don't think it would be feasible to win them all.

BreakPoint
05-18-2009, 12:41 PM
Nadal played horrible against Tsonga. He was hitting everything short. You are obviously a hater.
Um....could that possibly have something to do with Tsonga absolutely creaming the ball? :-?

It's your opponent that makes you look bad.

Did Agassi play horrible in the '99 Wimbledon final? No, not at all. It's just that Sampras didn't allow Agassi to even touch the ball. It had nothing to do with Agassi's level of play.

BreakPoint
05-18-2009, 12:45 PM
Injuries have nothing to do with how tough you are. They are uncontrollable. Most players would've retired. Not Nadal though. He fights no matter how bad of shape he is in. See his match against Murray in Rotterdam and his match at Rome against Ferrero for proof.
But according to you, he didn't fight at all against Federer yesterday but just tanked the match. :oops:

BreakPoint
05-18-2009, 12:50 PM
Not according to me, according to everyone. And in his US open blog when he busted it at the US Open in practice he said that the pain when he busted it at the US Open was EXACTLY how it felt when he busted it at Wimbledon final. He couldn't move his leg for a few days and as you know he was at 30-40% throughout the US Open and should have pulled out. And that 30% condition for his first round was after 3-4 days of rest and special lazer treatment after he busted the knee, so you can imagine how it felt immediately after he busted it at the Wimbledon final.
Yup, like I said before, you're suggesting that Nadal isn't physically cut-out for professional tennis as a career. Perhaps he should just hang it up now and get a desk job at his father's company in Mallorca before he does any permanent damage?

BreakPoint
05-18-2009, 12:55 PM
Fed's risks wouldn't have worked if he played Joker in the semi. It was proven the last 2 times they played. Rafa was just unlucky to play Joker in the form he was in. Fed had a far easier semi opponent then Fed just beat a dead Nadal.
All Federer proved the last two times he played Djokovic is that he had a mental collapse after being way up and kicking Djkovic's butt. :oops:

swedechris
05-18-2009, 12:58 PM
Its was something not much not little.. The sun was out , dry day, no wind, hard hard court with little clay on it and high altitude.= Madrid in May..Federer-land..

Humid, moist ,windy and grey overcast and spots of rain, sealevel altitude and best of 5( plenty of time to wear a clean hitting player down..) = Paris in May / June.. Nadal territory.

BreakPoint
05-18-2009, 01:00 PM
Well, it was a 4-hour three-setter, with less than 24 hours to recover.
You mean 1 hour of tennis and 3 hours of standing around waiting to serve and sitting around for changeovers and medical treatments. :)

swedechris
05-18-2009, 01:03 PM
Kind of true. ..but still that 1 hour of tennis was very intense and good physical tennis. Did you see it ?

BreakPoint
05-18-2009, 01:03 PM
Hamburg 2007? Yes.
Hamburg 2008? Not so much because he had lost in the first round in Rome.
Isn't it amazing how his MASSIVE feet blisters which "caused his loss to Ferrero" in Rome 2008 miraculously healed so quickly to allow him to win Hamburg the following week? Hmmm...... :-?

BreakPoint
05-18-2009, 01:06 PM
RG plays nothing like Madrid but sure Federer is a very dangerous player on all surfaces. I really don't think Nadal takes the victory for granted at all and we shouldn't either.
And you know this because you've personally played in both tournaments? :confused:

Does the grass at Queens play anything like the grass at Wimbledon?

BreakPoint
05-18-2009, 01:12 PM
Nadal sucks on other surfaces like Wimbledon and AO, where he hasn't won anything. He also sucks on clay because he only won 3 out of 4 consecutive titles so far.
Because both Wimbledon and the AO are slower than the clay in Madrid. :oops:

TheTruth
05-18-2009, 02:20 PM
I think Nadal gave Federer the credit he deserved. I think he was taken a little out of context about the surface. He just stated he doesn't think this outcome will have an effect on RG because the surfaces are so different. So its not like Nadal himself said this doesn't count, but those who take things out of context do.

I definitely don't remember all us Fed fans blaming the surface for Nadal's victory at Wimbledon and AO though. I feel like most of us were disappointed in Fed's performance, and not looking for excuses like the Nadal fans.



Not true, there were posts for months on end about Wimbledon being green clay and the grass had changed dramatically which was the only reason Nadal won. Tons of articles were posted and many arguments were made. Then, when Nadal won Australia another slew of threads came out calling the hard court, blue clay, and suddenly the AO wasn't a true hard court and only the USO was officially a hard court. This has been going on for quite awhile.

I remember.

IvanAndreevich
05-18-2009, 02:21 PM
Not true, there were posts for months on end about Wimbledon being green clay and the grass had changed dramatically which was the only reason Nadal won. Tons of articles were posted and many arguments were made. Then, when Nadal won Australia another slew of threads came out calling the hard court, blue clay, and suddenly the AO wasn't a true hard court and only the USO was officially a hard court. This has been going on for quite awhile.

I remember.

This is correct. A lot of people were complaining about conditions on tour slowing down dramatically after Nadal's victory at Wimbledon.

ninman
05-18-2009, 02:27 PM
Not true, there were posts for months on end about Wimbledon being green clay and the grass had changed dramatically which was the only reason Nadal won. Tons of articles were posted and many arguments were made. Then, when Nadal won Australia another slew of threads came out calling the hard court, blue clay, and suddenly the AO wasn't a true hard court and only the USO was officially a hard court. This has been going on for quite awhile.

I remember.

People have been complaining about the Wimbledon courts being too slow for YEARS. All Nadal did was verify people's belief by playing is CLAY game and winning Wimbledon. Wimbledon is supposed to give the advantage to serve and volleyers, not baseliners like Nadal.

Rafael Nadal has stated it himself. After he won Wimbledon he told all his fellow clay court specialists to simply play Wimbledon the way they play on clay.

Another point, the AO is NOT a hard court, the AO organisers themselves state that it is NOT a hard court. The surface is completely different from the one they use at the US Open.

Rod Laver himself said that if Federer ever achieved the GS he would have done it playing 4 different surfaces not 2 like he did.

TheTruth
05-18-2009, 02:47 PM
People have been complaining about the Wimbledon courts being too slow for YEARS. All Nadal did was verify people's belief by playing is CLAY game and winning Wimbledon. Wimbledon is supposed to give the advantage to serve and volleyers, not baseliners like Nadal.

Rafael Nadal has stated it himself. After he won Wimbledon he told all his fellow clay court specialists to simply play Wimbledon the way they play on clay.

Another point, the AO is NOT a hard court, the AO organisers themselves state that it is NOT a hard court. The surface is completely different from the one they use at the US Open.

Rod Laver himself said that if Federer ever achieved the GS he would have done it playing 4 different surfaces not 2 like he did.


This is the post I was referencing.

Originally Posted by raiden031
I think Nadal gave Federer the credit he deserved. I think he was taken a little out of context about the surface. He just stated he doesn't think this outcome will have an effect on RG because the surfaces are so different. So its not like Nadal himself said this doesn't count, but those who take things out of context do.

I definitely don't remember all us Fed fans blaming the surface for Nadal's victory at Wimbledon and AO though. I feel like most of us were disappointed in Fed's performance, and not looking for excuses like the Nadal fans.

The issue here is not whether the grass is slower, or what Nadal said, but rather it is, did the fans complain about the surface when Nadal won Wimbledon. What I said is still a true statement. The Fed Fans complained long and loudly.

TheNatural
05-18-2009, 06:30 PM
All Federer proved the last two times he played Djokovic is that he had a mental collapse after being way up and kicking Djkovic's butt. :oops:

Fed needs to see a shrink if Joker can roll off 5 games in a row at will twice in a match due to mental collapses. :oops:

Can we look forwards to more mental collapses and smashed rackets at Roland Garros?:oops:

Nadal_Freak
05-18-2009, 06:32 PM
Fed needs to see a shrink if Joker can roll off 5 games in a row at will twice in a match due to mental collapses. :oops:

Can we look forwards to more mental collapses and smashed rackets at Roland Garros?:oops:
Good point. :oops: at BP.

Josherer
05-18-2009, 06:37 PM
Completely true...Madrid is probably faster tham wimbledon

LurkingGod
05-18-2009, 06:47 PM
I think Nadal gave Federer the credit he deserved. I think he was taken a little out of context about the surface. He just stated he doesn't think this outcome will have an effect on RG because the surfaces are so different. So its not like Nadal himself said this doesn't count, but those who take things out of context do.
True. He didn't even mention his 4 hrs match with Djokovic until the interviewer brought that up.
I definitely don't remember all us Fed fans blaming the surface for Nadal's victory at Wimbledon and AO though. I feel like most of us were disappointed in Fed's performance, and not looking for excuses like the Nadal fans.
So you aren't one of the Fed fans who made that excuse then? Good on you but you're wrong. All the excuses that Nadal fans come up with after his loss in Madrid we've heard them all before from Fed fans. You want the list?

- Nadal reached Wimbly final in 2006 was because the cakewalk draw, in 2007 and 2008 because of the fake grass aka green clay.
- Nadal won Wimbly 2008 because Fed had mono
- Nadal won AO this year on a fake HC aka blue clay. Don't forget Federer gave the match away in the 5th set also

So now, before Fed fans want us to give Fed full credit may I ask them to take back all the excuses above for an exchange? Seeing that now we can see how ridiculous and pointless they are.

illkhiboy
05-18-2009, 07:13 PM
True. He didn't even mention his 4 hrs match with Djokovic until the interviewer brought that up.

So you aren't one of the Fed fans who made that excuse then? Good on you but you're wrong. All the excuses that Nadal fans come up with after his loss in Madrid we've heard them all before from Fed fans. You want the list?

- Nadal reached Wimbly final in 2006 was because the cakewalk draw, in 2007 and 2008 because of the fake grass aka green clay.
- Nadal won Wimbly 2008 because Fed had mono
- Nadal won AO this year on a fake HC aka blue clay. Don't forget Federer gave the match away in the 5th set also

So now, before Fed fans want us to give Fed full credit may I ask them to take back all the excuses above for an exchange? Seeing that now we can see how ridiculous and pointless they are.

True that some Federer fans are as pathetic as *******s.

But I think for the most part, Nadal fans are more extreme and zealous than Fed fans.

From what I remember, this board was full of great discussions circa 2004. Then Nadal came along, and all these traditionalists couldn't bear to see this kid in capris, yelling Vamos, and playing a defensive game beat the elegant and rich (more variety) game of Federer.

Thats when they started calling Nadal names, such as Topspin Monkey (which I actually use amongst friends as a joke) and others which were derogatory.

I think that might be one of the reasons that spawned this generation of Nadal Freaks. Now this board is a mess.

If I remember correctly, Break Point and some others were some of the original trolls on this forum. It's a shame that some fans can't appreciate the evolution of the game (a defensive approach can take you far) and feel a need to insult these amazing athletes.

BreakPoint
05-18-2009, 07:58 PM
Completely true...Madrid is probably faster tham wimbledon
Actually, Madrid is faster than a pure sheet of ice. In fact, the NHL just announced that they are going to play all hockey games from now on on the same clay surface as they used in Madrid instead of on ice. :shock:

LurkingGod
05-18-2009, 08:32 PM
True that some Federer fans are as pathetic as *******s.

But I think for the most part, Nadal fans are more extreme and zealous than Fed fans.
You said THAT....^^

Then you followed with THIS...

From what I remember, this board was full of great discussions circa 2004. Then Nadal came along, and all these traditionalists couldn't bear to see this kid in capris, yelling Vamos, and playing a defensive game beat the elegant and rich (more variety) game of Federer.

Thats when they started calling Nadal names, such as Topspin Monkey (which I actually use amongst friends as a joke) and others which were derogatory.
Isn't it a contradiction? You obviously stated the FACT that Fed fans started all the insulting and name calling but somehow your conclusion was "Nadal fans are more extreme and zealous than Fed fans". How does that work?

I used to join tennis discussions back in late 90's - early 2000's when the message boards still looked boring in monotone and no graphics nor emoticons. I remember how friendly, fair and objective tennis fans were back then. I lost interest in tennis for a few years but when I came back I couldn't believe how the world has changed.

I think that might be one of the reasons that spawned this generation of Nadal Freaks. Now this board is a mess.

If I remember correctly, Break Point and some others were some of the original trolls on this forum. It's a shame that some fans can't appreciate the evolution of the game (a defensive approach can take you far) and feel a need to insult these amazing athletes.
What wrong with having Nadal Freak if the like of Break Point and co. are still around? Two wrongs don't make one right but at least it's the same for both player. I'd rather have this mess than the board I saw in 2006-7 when the place was a peaceful Fed fans gathering and Nadal was just an annoying butt-picking monkey who stood between Fed and his immortality. Not to mention how Nadal supporters were treated with contempt and snort for daring to stand for a 'bad' guy.

BreakPoint
05-18-2009, 09:02 PM
I'd rather have this mess than the board I saw in 2006-7 when the place was a peaceful Fed fans gathering and Nadal was just an annoying butt-picking monkey who stood between Fed and his immortality. Not to mention how Nadal supporters were treated with contempt and snort for daring to stand for a 'bad' guy.
Some things just never change. :lol:

illkhiboy
05-18-2009, 09:29 PM
You said THAT....^^

Then you followed with THIS...


Isn't it a contradiction? You obviously stated the FACT that Fed fans started all the insulting and name calling but somehow your conclusion was "Nadal fans are more extreme and zealous than Fed fans". How does that work?

I used to join tennis discussions back in late 90's - early 2000's when the message boards still looked boring in monotone and no graphics nor emoticons. I remember how friendly, fair and objective tennis fans were back then. I lost interest in tennis for a few years but when I came back I couldn't believe how the world has changed.


What wrong with having Nadal Freak if the like of Break Point and co. are still around? Two wrongs don't make one right but at least it's the same for both player. I'd rather have this mess than the board I saw in 2006-7 when the place was a peaceful Fed fans gathering and Nadal was just an annoying butt-picking monkey who stood between Fed and his immortality. Not to mention how Nadal supporters were treated with contempt and snort for daring to stand for a 'bad' guy.

I 'm saying that part of the reason for these psychotic Nadal fans is that traditionalists (not always Federer fans) and some Federer nut-huggers would constantly trash Nadal.

While that was unfair, it might also have been in response to the few Nadal worshippers that were around - some girl called Susan who sounded a bit like veronoquiem.

So to attribute the blame for the flame war to Federer fans might not be completely justified. Listen, it's a tricky thing to gauge these things. But even if Fed fans started a flame war, it doesn't mean that Nadal fans have to respond the way they do.

I always used to root for Nadal - up until mid-2008 when I felt like Federer became the underdog. But when I was rooting for Nadal I never engaged in flaming. Neither did a lot of other Nadal (or Federer fans).

I use sarcasm to mock all trolls! And I wish Break Point, Drakulie and co. would also take time to poke fun at Federer ***** to promote more objectivity.

But the bottomline is this - the Federer fans that are continually harassed for trolling these days: vtmike, IgorAndreevich, Drakulie etc. are faaaar more objective than Nadal-Freak, Gj011 (Djokovic fan but an extremely obnoxious troll), GameSampras, TheNatural (Sampras-lovers-with-temporary-hardons-for-Nadal-crowd), Veronoqieum, RubberDuckies etc.


As you said two wrongs don't make a right. Besides, why are these kids so emotional about their favorite players? I can't believe some of the hated spewed on these boards - and these days it's by *******s for the most part. It doesn't matter who started it...how can you start HATING Federer because Break Point thinks the one-handed backhand, slice shots and volleys are everything there is to enjoy about tennis?

I think a lot of these kids here could do with some cognitive therapy starting with Gj011. This guy seriously needs to sit down and re-program his mind.

And Vtmike, if you're reading this. Please STOP responding to every troll post. Sometimes I find whole pages of you and some random troll going on and on about nothing. It's really annoying to find good posts amongst all the garbage. I say, leave Drakulie to spray the troll-repellant. :D