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grafrules
05-18-2009, 05:50 PM
Who do you consider the top 5 players in the world now on each surface. Here would be mine:

Mens:

Grass:

1. Nadal
2. Federer
-----huge gap----
3. Murray (thinking his improvement will make him really good on grass)
4. Roddick
5. Gasquet

Had courts:

1. Nadal
2. Murray
3. Federer
4. Djokovic
5. Roddick

Clay:

1. Nadal
2. Federer
3. Djokovic
4. Verdasco
5. Ferrer or Del Potro


Women:

Grass:

1. Venus
2. Serena
----huge gap---
3. Kuznetsova
4. Safina
5. Azarenka (just a guess here as this is her first year at this level)

Clay:

1. Safina
2. Kuznetsova
3. Jankovic
4. Ivanovic
5. Dementieva

Hard:

1. Serena
2. Azarenka
3. Dementieva
4. Safina
5. Kuznetsova

grafselesfan
05-18-2009, 06:12 PM
Men on hard courts: 1. Nadal, 2. Federer, 3. Murray (sorry win a slam before I go higher), 4. Djokovic (needs to post some more results here again), 5. Del Potro or Nalbandian

Men on clay: 1. Nadal, 2. Djokovic, 3. Federer, 4. Del Potro, 5. Murray

Men on grass: 1. Nadal, 2. Federer, 3. Murray, 4. Djokovic, 5. Roddick


Women on grass: 1. Venus, 2. Serena, the rest are hopeless

Women on hard courts: 1. Azarenka, 2. Serena, 3. Dementieva, 4. Kuznetsova, 5. Safina

Women on clay: 1. Safina, 2. Kuznetsova, the rest are hopeless now

mzzmuaa
05-18-2009, 06:42 PM
grass:
1 federer 2 nadal 3 murray 4 djokovic 5 safin

clay
1 federer(no excuse to get crushed in straight sets as most recent result) 2 nadal 3 djokovic 4 roddick 5 ferrer

hard
1 federer 2 murray 3 nadal 4 roddick 5 djokovic

federerdomination
05-18-2009, 06:45 PM
As of now:

Grass:
1. Federer
2. Nadal
3. Djokovic
4. Murray
5. ....not sure maybe Tsonga?

Hard
1. Nadal
2. Murray
3. Federer
4. Djokovic
5. Del Potro

Clay
1. Nadal
2. Federer
3. Djokovic
4. uhh...Ferrer
5. Del Potro?

tudwell
05-18-2009, 06:57 PM
Murray above Djokovic on grass? What are you guys smoking?

Nadal_Freak
05-18-2009, 07:07 PM
Djokovic will be much tougher on grass and hard courts for the rest of the year. I'm hoping Nadal can stay as confident as he was last year on grass.

thalivest
05-18-2009, 07:10 PM
Murray above Djokovic on grass? What are you guys smoking?

At the last 3 Wimbledons Djokovic and Murray had the same result in 2006, Djokovic better in 2007, Murray better in 2008. Neither is a proven top grass court player really. Neither is even in the league of Federer or Nadal on grass at this point, particularly slow Wimbledon grass of today. Murray has beaten Gasquet and Roddick at Wimbledon. Djokovic has taken 5 sets to beat a way past his prime Hewitt and Baghdatis as his biggest ever grass court wins. Murray has improved much more since last years Wimbledon than Djokovic has needless to say.

<3tennis!!!
05-18-2009, 07:21 PM
clay:

1.Nadal
2.Federer
3.Djokovic
4.Del Potro
5.Verdasco

hard:

1.Federer
2.Nadal
3.Murray
4.Djokovic
5.Roddick

grass:

1.Federer
2.Nadal
3.Djokovic
4.Murray
5.Roddick

clayman2000
05-18-2009, 07:30 PM
Hard Court:
1)Nadal -- AO, IW, Montreal, Olympic champ says it all
2)Murray -- hiccup at AO was mainly bad luck
3)Federer -- cant see him loosing to anyone by Nadal and Murray on hard
4)Roddick -- only one loss to players outside the top 3
5)Djokovic (his start to the year was pitiful)

Clay:
1)Nadal -- easy choice
T2) Federer & Djokovic -- Djokovic beat Federer, but Federer beat Nadal
4)Verdasco -- unlucky to get Nadal in his quarter twice on clay
5)Del Potro -- dont see him taking out the top 3 clay boys, but still soldi

Grass:
1)Nadal
2)Federer -- pretty much at Nadal level, so 1 goes to the champ
3)Djokovic -- 1 hiccup can ruin a players rep on grass
4)Roddick -- Has more experience on grass than all minus top 2
5)Murray -- he would be higher if home court advantage mattered in this

Lsmkenpo
05-18-2009, 07:32 PM
Grass:
1.Federer- silly to put Nadal above Federer on grass, big deal he won one close match, that doesn't all of a sudden diminish the dominance Federer has shown on grass the past 5 years. Playing on a fresh grass court Nadal is not close to the best. Big difference between week one at Wimbledon and week 2, week 2 is not grasscourt tennis, it is playing on dirt. If Nadal had to play any of the top 5 week one at Wimbledon, he would be in big trouble.
2.Djokovic
3.Roddick
4.Nadal
5.Murray/Verdasco

Clay:
1. Nadal
2. Federer
3. Djokovic
4. Verdasco
5. Murray

Hard:
1. Federer- #1 until someone proves they can beat him at the US open, on fast hardcourt.
2. Djokovic/Nadal faster hardcourt favor Djokovic, med favor Nadal.
4. Murray
5. Verdasco/Roddick

Nadal_Freak
05-18-2009, 07:34 PM
Grass:
1.Federer- silly to put Nadal above Federer on grass, big deal he won one close match, that doesn't all of a sudden diminish the dominance Federer has shown on grass the past 5 years. Playing on a fresh grass court Nadal is not close to the best. Big difference between week one at Wimbledon and week 2, week 2 is not grasscourt tennis, it is playing on dirt. If Nadal had to play any of the top 5 week one at Wimbledon, he would be in big trouble.
2.Djokovic
3.Roddick
4.Nadal
5.Murray/Verdasco

Clay:
1. Nadal
2. Federer
3. Djokovic
4. Verdasco
5. Murray

Hard:
1. Federer- #1 until someone proves they can beat him at the US open, on fast hardcourt.
2. Djokovic/Nadal faster hardcourt favor Djokovic, med favor Nadal.
4. Murray
5. Verdasco/Roddick
Nadal gets to 3 straight Wimbledon Finals and he is number 4 on your list? Wow.

Lsmkenpo
05-18-2009, 07:39 PM
Nadal gets to 3 straight Wimbledon Finals and he is number 4 on your list? Wow.

He has made it there because he plays weak competition week 1 when it is a true grass court, week 2 it starts to play like clay because the grass is gone.

Grass is not a consistent surface the whole tourney, If they played on a true fresh grass court every match Nadal would have a much tougher time of it.IMO

I am basing the rankings on a true grass court as it would be week 1.

jamesblakefan#1
05-18-2009, 07:57 PM
Men's
Hard Court
1)Rafa Nadal
2)Andy Murray
3)Novak Djokovic
4)Roger Federer
5)JM Del Potro (beat Roddick last yr, Nadal this yr)

Clay Courts
1)Rafa Nadal
2)Roger Federer (2 straight FO Finals, recent win over Nadal)
3)Novak Djokovic (close, but still yet to beat Nadal and get over that hump)
4)Nikolay Davydenko (I say he's the next most accomplished, still a factor when healthy)
5)Andy Roddick (just kidding)
JM Del Potro (more recent sucess)

Grass Courts
1)Rafa Nadal (not just bcus of Wimbledon, also off of win at Queens, knocking off Karlovic, Roddick, and Djokovic)
2)Roger Federer
3)Andy Murray
4)Novak Djokovic
5)JW Tsonga (I think he will make the SF of Wimbledon this yr, didn't get to play last yr unfortunately, hopefully healthy this yr)

Women's
Hard Courts
1)Serena
2)Dinara Safina
3)Elena Dementieva
4)Jelena Jankovic
5)Kuznetsova

Clay Courts (since there is no Henin)
1)Dinara Safina
2)Svetlana Kuznetsova
3)Jelena Jankovic
4)Ana Ivanovic
5)Viktoria Azarenka

Grass Courts
1)Venus
2)Serena
3)..............

jamesblakefan#1
05-18-2009, 08:00 PM
He has made it there because he plays weak competition week 1 when it is a true grass court, week 2 it starts to play like clay because the grass is gone.

Grass is not a consistent surface the whole tourney, If they played on a true fresh grass court every match Nadal would have a much tougher time of it.IMO

I am basing the rankings on a true grass court as it would be week 1.

Didn't he survive Gulbis last yr? And the grass is never consistent, that's why Roddick has never won there. It wears down. Didn't Rafa win Queens on fresh grass too? There are too many reasons why you are wrong.

Lsmkenpo
05-18-2009, 08:16 PM
Didn't he survive Gulbis last yr? And the grass is never consistent, that's why Roddick has never won there. It wears down. Didn't Rafa win Queens on fresh grass too? There are too many reasons why you are wrong.

Gulbis? you view him barely surviving Gulbis as a great acheivement? Gulbis is one of the most inconsistent players on tour, can't think of a better opponent for the most consistent player on tour to face.

A true fresh grasscourt no way is Nadal a clearcut favorite to win against any of the top 5.

Nadal is not dominating on grass by any means, he has won matches but dropped a lot of sets in the process.

jamesblakefan#1
05-18-2009, 08:24 PM
He won Queens last yr by beating your #2 & #3, Djokovic and Roddick, respectively, and then won Wimbledon while your guys Djokovic and Roddick both lost on the "real" grass in the first week. So yeah, I think your argument just FAILED.

nfor304
05-18-2009, 08:30 PM
I dont get how anyone could put Murray above Federer on Hard... Fed is the USopen champion and runner up in 5 sets at the Aus Open, and won the US and Aus open the years before, whereas murray lost to Fed at the Us and lost in the 4th at the Australian. I think Grandslam performances on these surfaces should be held in higher regard than anything else

Lsmkenpo
05-18-2009, 08:32 PM
He won Queens last yr by beating your #2 & #3, Djokovic and Roddick, respectively, and then won Wimbledon while your guys Djokovic and Roddick both lost on the "real" grass in the first week. So yeah, I think your argument just FAILED.

Queens is slow grasscourt not close to Wimbledon in speed week 1. That is the reason Federer doesn't play it.

If we are talking about the grass week 2 at Wimbledon, we are not talking grass that is mostly dirt, and I will say Nadal's ranking is higher at that point.

jamesblakefan#1
05-18-2009, 08:41 PM
Murray is 6-2 vs Fed on HC. I get your point a/b slams, but 6-2 is 6-2. I went with recent history.

And on Queen's being slower grass.

This: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=3389036

And This: "Wimbledon, with 100 percent rye grass, is considered to be slower than other grass courts such as Queen's in London, and 's-Hertogenbosch in the Netherlands."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_court

So yeah, you FAIL again.

RCizzle65
05-18-2009, 08:45 PM
Queens is slow grasscourt not close to Wimbledon in speed week 1. That is the reason Federer doesn't play it.

If we are talking about the grass week 2 at Wimbledon, we are not talking grass that is mostly dirt, and I will say Nadal's ranking is higher at that point.

Uhmmm Queens has been noted to be faster than Wimbledon nowadays, your arguments just keep on falling in the gutter

reytol
05-18-2009, 08:53 PM
Grass:
1.Federer- silly to put Nadal above Federer on grass, big deal he won one close match, that doesn't all of a sudden diminish the dominance Federer has shown on grass the past 5 years. Playing on a fresh grass court Nadal is not close to the best. Big difference between week one at Wimbledon and week 2, week 2 is not grasscourt tennis, it is playing on dirt. If Nadal had to play any of the top 5 week one at Wimbledon, he would be in big trouble.
2.Djokovic
3.Roddick
4.Nadal
5.Murray/Verdasco

Clay:
1. Nadal
2. Federer
3. Djokovic
4. Verdasco
5. Murray

Hard:
1. Federer- #1 until someone proves they can beat him at the US open, on fast hardcourt.
2. Djokovic/Nadal faster hardcourt favor Djokovic, med favor Nadal.
4. Murray
5. Verdasco/Roddick

Wow this man doesn't know tennis at all, maybe he doesn't update himself about results. Pity.

RCizzle65
05-18-2009, 08:53 PM
Now for my on topic post

Grass:
1. Federer (He lost a very close final he didn't even show up for the first couple sets, I still give him a slight edge, made the last 6 finals, wining 5 in a row)
2. Nadal (Made the past 3 finals winning one of them)
- Huge Gap -
3. Djokovic (Queens finalist and a couple of semis at Wimbledon)
4. Roddick (Couple Wimbledon finals, some Queens titles, and this year he's playing one of the best years of his tennis career)
5. I don't know, I guess Murray or Gasquet

Hard Courts:

1. Nadal (dominated the first part of the 09 season, winning the 09 Australian and Indian Wells)
2. Federer (US Open 08, AO 09 finalist, good results at masters where he doesn't try his best)
3. Murray (Doha, Rotterdamn, and Miami winner)
4. Djokovic (Started off bad but regained his confidence)
5. Roddick (Started the year off great)

Clay

1. Nadal (This one doesn't need to be explained)
2. Djokvoic (Has been getting closer and closer to beating Nadal on this surface)
3. Federer (Just won Madrid)
4. Verdasco (He lost to Nadal and was ahead in one of the matches)
5. Wawrinka (I think he's good on it)



The clay one just looks like I just measured everyone to Nadal, lol.

Japutch
05-18-2009, 08:59 PM
Has anyone been impressed by Juan Monaco's play on clay this year?

Lsmkenpo
05-18-2009, 08:59 PM
Wow this man doesn't know tennis at all, maybe he doesn't update himself about results. Pity.

List your 5 or, s t f u the OP is asking for opinions I gave mine no need to make it personal.

jamesblakefan#1
05-18-2009, 09:02 PM
List your 5 or, s t f u the OP is asking for opinions I gave mine no need to make it personal.

Hey, don't get mad just because you got PWNED not once, but twice.

RCizzle65
05-18-2009, 09:02 PM
List your 5 or, s t f u the OP is asking for opinions I gave mine no need to make it personal.

lol, no counterargument, just dodges the facts

Lsmkenpo
05-18-2009, 09:18 PM
lol, no counterargument, just dodges the facts

I admit I was wrong about Queen's club.

My second point is valid Wimbledon does not play the same week 1 versus week 2.

OliverSimon
05-18-2009, 09:22 PM
Wawrinka is another top 4 or 5 contender on clay !!

OliverSimon
05-18-2009, 09:25 PM
Has anyone been impressed by Juan Monaco's play on clay this year?

He has done exceptionally well but he is not a top 5 contender? Or is he?

Ray Mercer
05-18-2009, 09:56 PM
Grass
1. Fed
2. Nadal
3. Djokovic

Hard (Real hardcourt aka US open)
1. Federer
2. Nadal
3. Murray
4. Djokovic

Clay
1. Nadal
2. Fed/Djokovic - Toss-up either way distant second

Dilettante
05-18-2009, 10:01 PM
(Real hardcourt aka US open)

So Aus Open hardcourt is not hard?

Try breaking it with your head. Then come back here and tell us the experience.

luckyguy
05-18-2009, 10:02 PM
I cant believe Federer is the top hard court player based on the posts here. He only won the US open. There are four other master series tourneys and he's not getting consistent results from those for the past two years. I did not even mention the indoor hardcourts, (paris, shanghai..)

gj011
05-18-2009, 10:25 PM
Hard Court:
1)Nadal -- AO, IW, Montreal, Olympic champ says it all
2)Murray -- hiccup at AO was mainly bad luck
3)Federer -- cant see him loosing to anyone by Nadal and Murray on hard
4)Roddick -- only one loss to players outside the top 3
5)Djokovic (his start to the year was pitiful)

Clay:
1)Nadal -- easy choice
T2) Federer & Djokovic -- Djokovic beat Federer, but Federer beat Nadal
4)Verdasco -- unlucky to get Nadal in his quarter twice on clay
5)Del Potro -- dont see him taking out the top 3 clay boys, but still soldi

Grass:
1)Nadal
2)Federer -- pretty much at Nadal level, so 1 goes to the champ
3)Djokovic -- 1 hiccup can ruin a players rep on grass
4)Roddick -- Has more experience on grass than all minus top 2
5)Murray -- he would be higher if home court advantage mattered in this

Federer lost to Djokovic in Miami.

Chelsea_Kiwi
05-18-2009, 10:28 PM
Grass:
1. Federer
2. Nadal
3. Murray
4. Roddick
5. Djokovic

Hard
1. Nadal
2. Murray
3. Federer
4. Djokovic
5. Del Potro

Clay
1. Nadal
2. Federer
3. Djokovic
4. Davydenko (Despite poor results I think he will make FO SF if he is in Murrays draw.)
5. Del Potro

Joseph L. Barrow
05-18-2009, 10:34 PM
Based on recent history:

Hard:
1. Nadal
2. Murray (very close second)
3. Federer
4. Roddick
5. Djokovic

Clay
1. Nadal
2. Djokovic
3. (very close third) Federer
4. Murray
5. Del Potro

Grass
1. Nadal
2. Federer
3. Djokovic
4. Murray
5. Roddick

gj011
05-18-2009, 10:46 PM
Clay
1. Nadal (no explanation needed)
2. Djokovic (no explanation needed)
3. Federer (no explanation needed)
4-7 Del Potro/Murray/Wawrinka/Gonzalez (Masters SF)


Hardcourt
1. Nadal (AO, IW)
2. Murray (Miami, Rotterdam)
3. Djokovic (TMC, Dubai, beat Federer in Miami)
4. Federer (AO Final)
5. Verdasco (AO SF, beat Murray)

Grass
1. Nadal (Wimbledon, Queens)
2. Federer (Wimbledon final, Wimbledon 2007, Halle)
3. Djokovic (Wimbledon SF 2007, Queens final 2008)
4. Safin (got to go by last Wimbledon results here)
5. Schuettler (same as above)

jamesblakefan#1
05-18-2009, 10:49 PM
Why's everyone have Roddick so high on grass still? He lost 2nd round last yr, before that lost in QF to Gasquet in embarassing fashion, and lost in the 3rd to Murray in 06. He hasn't shown that he's able to beat great players on grass anymore.

IvanAndreevich
05-18-2009, 11:05 PM
4. Federer (AO Final)
You forgot USO 2008 :)

LanceStern
05-19-2009, 12:52 AM
Federer lost to Djokovic in Miami.

Federer had a severe meltdown that very same match too.

But I do agree, Djokovic was my #1 threat to Fed on hardcourts last year, until Murray showed up. I'd say Murray then Novak then Nadal.

joeri888
05-19-2009, 01:36 AM
Is this based on their consistency on or how good you think they can still perform on any given day? If you want consistency just divide the rankings and you've got what you want. If you want their potential on their very ebst day I'd say Federer is the best on hards and grass, and Nadal is the best on clay.

joeri888
05-19-2009, 01:40 AM
Clay
1. Nadal (no explanation needed)
2. Djokovic (no explanation needed)
3. Federer (no explanation needed)
4-7 Del Potro/Murray/Wawrinka/Gonzalez (Masters SF)


Hardcourt
1. Nadal (AO, IW)
2. Murray (Miami, Rotterdam)
3. Djokovic (TMC, Dubai, beat Federer in Miami)
4. Federer (AO Final)
5. Verdasco (AO SF, beat Murray)

Grass
1. Nadal (Wimbledon, Queens)
2. Federer (Wimbledon final, Wimbledon 2007, Halle)
3. Djokovic (Wimbledon SF 2007, Queens final 2008)
4. Safin (got to go by last Wimbledon results here)
5. Schuettler (same as above)
Fair enough.. I think you come kind of close. However, I don't think you should list TMC if you refuse to list US Open 2008 as well. I think Federer, Djokovic and Murray are really close at the moment on all surfaces. However, I think Roger's best of the three on grass, Murray's the best on hardcourts and Novak's the best on clay, just like you do. I'm just not sure yet on whether Nadal actually is the better grass player actually this year. It was mighty close last year, and of course it's partly mental as well as matchup too. It's not unfair to list Nadal above Federer there, but I think that's the only surface where it isn't OBVIOUSLY Nadal, at the moment.

nhat8121
05-19-2009, 01:42 AM
what is the reasoning for why murray isn't good on grass again?

batz
05-19-2009, 02:33 AM
what is the reasoning for why murray isn't good on grass again?

The detractors say he hasn't won a grass tournament or beaten any of the top 4 on grass. Others say his game doesn't transfer well to grass.

Supporters would point out that he won his 1st ATP match on grass, beat his 1st top 10 player on grass, has improved year on year at Wimbledon and has won 75% of his career grass matches to date.

Back on topic

Clay

1. Rafa
2. Roger
3. Novak
4/6 Stan, DelP, Murray

Hard

1. Rafa
2. Murray
3. Novak
4. Roger
5. Roddick

Grass

1. Rafa
2. Roger
3. Novak
4. Murray
5. Roddick

manny pacquiao P4P king
05-19-2009, 09:20 AM
Grass

1)federer
2)nadal
3)roddick
4)djokovic
5)Murray

hard

1)federer
2)nadal
3)djokovic
4)murray
5)roddick

Clay

1)nadal
2)federer
3)djokovic
4)almagro
5)del potro

how the **** could people put murray and djokovic ahead of roddick on grass, put together they have only one grasscourt runner up, roddick has 4 tournaments and 2 wimbledon RU's and a semi. roddick is only behind the best two players on grass ATM

nadal, best player ever on clay, fed and novak can both challenge nadal on clay, but won't beat him at FO. I actually consider fed in the top 5 claycourters of all time because he's beaten and challenged rafa on clay - but not at the FO.

hard courts - really a tie between nadal and federer, then djokovic, murray and roddick are the group behind them ATM. murray hasn't won a slam though, so i put novak ahead of him. roddick has the better HC C.V outta himself and murray but at present time murray is better.

coloskier
05-19-2009, 09:31 AM
Nadal gets to 3 straight Wimbledon Finals and he is number 4 on your list? Wow.

Gotta agree with you on that one. Nadal is defintely #2 overall on grass, not #4. One win (even if it is the latest match) with a number of losses does not make you #1. Just like one win of Fed against Nadal on clay, even if it is the most recent match, does not make you #1 on clay.

Arafel
05-19-2009, 09:37 AM
Why's everyone have Roddick so high on grass still? He lost 2nd round last yr, before that lost in QF to Gasquet in embarassing fashion, and lost in the 3rd to Murray in 06. He hasn't shown that he's able to beat great players on grass anymore.

Well, to be fair, he was injured last year. I don't think the loss to Gasquet was embarrassing; Gasquet played the match of his life and still needed two tiebreaks and an 8-6 final set to win it. The prior year Roddick was at his lowest confidence ever, and probably feeling down after losing to Fed at Wimbledon three years in a row. Murray also played well that tournament, and it was when he started making a move.

Right now, grass should go:

1) Federer
2) Nadal
3) Roddick
4-5: Murray and Djokovic, but not sure of order.

P_Agony
05-19-2009, 09:45 AM
Grass:
1.Federer- silly to put Nadal above Federer on grass, big deal he won one close match, that doesn't all of a sudden diminish the dominance Federer has shown on grass the past 5 years. Playing on a fresh grass court Nadal is not close to the best. Big difference between week one at Wimbledon and week 2, week 2 is not grasscourt tennis, it is playing on dirt. If Nadal had to play any of the top 5 week one at Wimbledon, he would be in big trouble.
2.Djokovic
3.Roddick
4.Nadal
5.Murray/Verdasco

Clay:
1. Nadal
2. Federer
3. Djokovic
4. Verdasco
5. Murray

Hard:
1. Federer- #1 until someone proves they can beat him at the US open, on fast hardcourt.
2. Djokovic/Nadal faster hardcourt favor Djokovic, med favor Nadal.
4. Murray
5. Verdasco/Roddick

I agree with your argument about Federer being the best grass player, but how are Djokovic and Roddick better grass court players than Nadal? Nadal won Wimbeldon once, reached another 2 finals, and won Queens. That's a lot more than you can say for Djokovic, and while Roddick did reach the Wimbly final and won Queens a bunch of times, he is yet to win Wimbeldon.

Nadal > Roddick and Djokovic on grass.

batz
05-19-2009, 10:12 AM
Grass

1)federer
2)nadal
3)roddick
4)djokovic
5)Murray

hard

1)federer
2)nadal
3)djokovic
4)murray
5)roddick

Clay

1)nadal
2)federer
3)djokovic
4)almagro
5)del potro

how the **** could people put murray and djokovic ahead of roddick on grass, put together they have only one grasscourt runner up, roddick has 4 tournaments and 2 wimbledon RU's and a semi. roddick is only behind the best two players on grass ATM

nadal, best player ever on clay, fed and novak can both challenge nadal on clay, but won't beat him at FO. I actually consider fed in the top 5 claycourters of all time because he's beaten and challenged rafa on clay - but not at the FO.

hard courts - really a tie between nadal and federer, then djokovic, murray and roddick are the group behind them ATM. murray hasn't won a slam though, so i put novak ahead of him. roddick has the better HC C.V outta himself and murray but at present time murray is better.

You seem to be answering the question from a 'career achievement' perspective. Are you really arguing that Roddick would beat Murray/Novak on grass?

Arafel
05-19-2009, 10:17 AM
You seem to be answering the question from a 'career achievement' perspective. Are you really arguing that Roddick would beat Murray/Novak on grass?

Not sure about Murray, but considering that Roddick beat Novak twice on hard courts this year I don't think it's a stretch to say he'd beat him on grass.

manny pacquiao P4P king
05-19-2009, 10:23 AM
You seem to be answering the question from a 'career achievement' perspective. Are you really arguing that Roddick would beat Murray/Novak on grass?

seeing as he beat djokovic on hard twice, and a very slow hard court for that matter, he would deal with djokovic on grass which will help his game out more .
murray would be tougher, but roddick has got the weapons. murray's best result in wimbledon was a qf and he got completely mashed by nadal. roddick played nadal better than murray did even though he was injured, no, im not buying it, roddick is a better grasscourt player than murray and djokovic.

if you don't believe me then your lying to yourself.

Dutch-Guy
05-19-2009, 10:31 AM
Grass:

1.Federer
2.Nadal
...huge gap...
3.Roddick
4.Murray
5.Gasquet

Clay:

1.Nadal
...small gap...
2.Djokovic
3.Federer
....huge gap...
4.Del Potro
5.Murray

Hardcourts:

1.Federer
2.Nadal
3.Murray
4.Djokovic
5.Tsonga

Cloudy
05-19-2009, 10:35 AM
Queens is slow grasscourt not close to Wimbledon in speed week 1. That is the reason Federer doesn't play it.

If we are talking about the grass week 2 at Wimbledon, we are not talking grass that is mostly dirt, and I will say Nadal's ranking is higher at that point.

:confused: have you ever watched a match at queens.

Queens is fast grass. Fed plays Halle because it plays slower, which is more like wimbledon grass.

batz
05-19-2009, 10:36 AM
seeing as he beat djokovic on hard twice, and a very slow hard court for that matter, he would deal with djokovic on grass which will help his game out more .
murray would be tougher, but roddick has got the weapons. murray's best result in wimbledon was a qf and he got completely mashed by nadal. roddick played nadal better than murray did even though he was injured, no, im not buying it, roddick is a better grasscourt player than murray and djokovic.

if you don't believe me then your lying to yourself.


Sorry - you mean if my opinion is different to yours I'm lying to myself?:confused: OK.

Murray has played 3 wimbledons and has improved every year he's played there. He has beaten Roddick in straights at Wimbledon, his h2h with Roddick is 6-2 and he's won their last 3 matches, the crowd would be massively behind Murray - but I'm kidding myself?

All of the above are facts. Now which facts (not opinions) would you like to present to support your argument that Roddick would beat Murray at Wimbeldon this year?

batz
05-19-2009, 10:40 AM
Not sure about Murray, but considering that Roddick beat Novak twice on hard courts this year I don't think it's a stretch to say he'd beat him on grass.

I agree that it would be possible for Roddick to beat Novak, just as it would be possible for Roddick to beat Murray - but if either of them meet ARod at Wimbledon I guarantee you they would be strong favourite.

Lsmkenpo
05-19-2009, 10:44 AM
:confused: have you ever watched a match at queens.

Queens is fast grass. Fed plays Halle because it plays slower, which is more like wimbledon grass.

I admitted I was wrong about Queens speed earlier in the thread.

Lsmkenpo
05-19-2009, 10:54 AM
I agree with your argument about Federer being the best grass player, but how are Djokovic and Roddick better grass court players than Nadal? Nadal won Wimbeldon once, reached another 2 finals, and won Queens. That's a lot more than you can say for Djokovic, and while Roddick did reach the Wimbly final and won Queens a bunch of times, he is yet to win Wimbeldon.

Nadal > Roddick and Djokovic on grass.

Possibly because I see Djokovic and Roddick as much improved this season , and even though Nadal has had good results on grass I certainly don't think he is as good on this surface as clay or med-fast hardcourt, it would be interesting to see which surface Nadal has dropped the most sets on, going by percentages I would be willing to bet it is grass by far.

I think Nadal is most likely to lose early on grass than any other surface.

manny pacquiao P4P king
05-19-2009, 11:39 AM
Sorry - you mean if my opinion is different to yours I'm lying to myself?:confused: OK.

Murray has played 3 wimbledons and has improved every year he's played there. He has beaten Roddick in straights at Wimbledon, his h2h with Roddick is 6-2 and he's won their last 3 matches, the crowd would be massively behind Murray - but I'm kidding myself?

All of the above are facts. Now which facts (not opinions) would you like to present to support your argument that Roddick would beat Murray at Wimbeldon this year?


yes because everyone knows that roddick was playing his best tennis ever in 2006. if murray played roddick 03/04 on grass then he would have got cancelled.

roddick has a better record than murray in every slam and surface..............even when both are 21. cya

BullDogTennis
05-19-2009, 12:00 PM
Nadal gets to 3 straight Wimbledon Finals and he is number 4 on your list? Wow.

same as federer getting to the last like i dont even know how many finals at the French and hes 3-4 on a lot of peoples list.

batz
05-19-2009, 12:00 PM
yes because everyone knows that roddick was playing his best tennis ever in 2006. if murray played roddick 03/04 on grass then he would have got cancelled.
roddick has a better record than murray in every slam and surface..............even when both are 21. cya


You remember what I said about opinions not facts? No?

I agree Murray would get beat in 03/04 - but he was only 15/16 at the time.

Now, leaving all the ancient history to one side, why do you think Andy Roddick of 2009 would beat Andy Murray of 2009?

Obviously I'm a Murray fan, I also like Roddick - but he's Murray's pidgeon. My first choice of who I'd like murray drawn with in the Wimbledon QFs would be Simon. My second choice would be Roddick. As I said earlier, if Murray does play Roddick @ SW19 he will be HOT favourite.

manny pacquiao P4P king
05-19-2009, 12:42 PM
You remember what I said about opinions not facts? No?

I agree Murray would get beat in 03/04 - but he was only 15/16 at the time.

Now, leaving all the ancient history to one side, why do you think Andy Roddick of 2009 would beat Andy Murray of 2009?

Obviously I'm a Murray fan, I also like Roddick - but he's Murray's pidgeon. My first choice of who I'd like murray drawn with in the Wimbledon QFs would be Simon. My second choice would be Roddick. As I said earlier, if Murray does play Roddick @ SW19 he will be HOT favourite.



didn't you learn to think b4 u type. i meant if muuray of 08/09 played roddick of 03/04 on grass (or hard court for that matter) , roddick would come out on top. FACT

bluetrain4
05-19-2009, 12:58 PM
Grass:
1.Federer- silly to put Nadal above Federer on grass, big deal he won one close match, that doesn't all of a sudden diminish the dominance Federer has shown on grass the past 5 years. Playing on a fresh grass court Nadal is not close to the best. Big difference between week one at Wimbledon and week 2, week 2 is not grasscourt tennis, it is playing on dirt. If Nadal had to play any of the top 5 week one at Wimbledon, he would be in big trouble.
2.Djokovic
3.Roddick
4.Nadal
5.Murray/Verdasco

Clay:
1. Nadal
2. Federer
3. Djokovic
4. Verdasco
5. Murray

Hard:
1. Federer- #1 until someone proves they can beat him at the US open, on fast hardcourt.
2. Djokovic/Nadal faster hardcourt favor Djokovic, med favor Nadal.
4. Murray
5. Verdasco/Roddick

I definitely agree that the one close Wimbledon win shouldn't necessarily elevate Nadal over Fed in terms of who is the best grass court player.

But, I completely disagree with your "second week is dirt" rationale. The second week is always dirt and the grass courts are never "fresh" by the time of the final. "Real" grasscourt tennis encompasses the conditions of the court over the two week tournament - whether first day green and lush, or last day patchy and brown.

batz
05-19-2009, 12:58 PM
didn't you learn to think b4 u type. i meant if muuray of 08/09 played roddick of 03/04 on grass (or hard court for that matter) , roddick would come out on top. FACT

No OPINION. Do you actually understand what a fact is?

Even if your contention is true, WTF does it have to do with how Roddick 09 would fare against Murray 09?

gj011
05-19-2009, 01:00 PM
same as federer getting to the last like i dont even know how many finals at the French and hes 3-4 on a lot of peoples list.

There is one "little" difference. Nadal actually won Wimbledon last year.

clayman2000
05-19-2009, 01:23 PM
Ok Here is why Nadal deserves to be ahead of Federer on grass:
1)Nadal won the last meeting. Now i know rain is not an excuse, but we all know the rain helped Federer.

2)Nadal has Federer rattled. Now i know people will say Madrid reversed that, however, i think Federer wanted madrid more than he usually wants to win a Masters. He had not faced Nadal on clay and needed to prove that he is still a force to be reckoned with

3)Slow grass compliments Nadal's game. His BH is amazing on grass, Nadal moves amazing on grass, his forhand gains a lot of sting, and his retreval of balls is amazing. Chip and charge doesnt work because of his passing ability, so you opponent looses the low bounce advantage. In fact i think many people agree that Wimby 07 was Nadals to win as well. He was clearly drained, and once again im not making excuses but Nadal lost his physical edge.


Now about Roddicks standing on grass, we have to realize that he has been very unlucky coming into Wimbledon the last three years. In 06 he was playing the worst tennis of his life. 07 he just chocked big time, and last year he had played 2 matches in the last o well 2 months. I think the way he is playing this year, he is easily a lock to get to the QF. I feel can take Djokovic on grass, he has played Federer very competitively in his last two matches, same for Rafa, and if he is confidedent, could use his experience to take Murray

Clydey2times
05-19-2009, 03:32 PM
Hard Court:
1)Nadal -- AO, IW, Montreal, Olympic champ says it all
2)Murray -- hiccup at AO was mainly bad luck
3)Federer -- cant see him loosing to anyone by Nadal and Murray on hard
4)Roddick -- only one loss to players outside the top 3
5)Djokovic (his start to the year was pitiful)

Clay:
1)Nadal -- easy choice
T2) Federer & Djokovic -- Djokovic beat Federer, but Federer beat Nadal
4)Verdasco -- unlucky to get Nadal in his quarter twice on clay
5)Del Potro -- dont see him taking out the top 3 clay boys, but still soldi

Grass:
1)Nadal
2)Federer -- pretty much at Nadal level, so 1 goes to the champ
3)Djokovic -- 1 hiccup can ruin a players rep on grass
4)Roddick -- Has more experience on grass than all minus top 2
5)Murray -- he would be higher if home court advantage mattered in this

How can you put Murray below Roddick on grass? Murray even beat him in 2006.

Clydey2times
05-19-2009, 03:40 PM
seeing as he beat djokovic on hard twice, and a very slow hard court for that matter, he would deal with djokovic on grass which will help his game out more .
murray would be tougher, but roddick has got the weapons. murray's best result in wimbledon was a qf and he got completely mashed by nadal. roddick played nadal better than murray did even though he was injured, no, im not buying it, roddick is a better grasscourt player than murray and djokovic.

if you don't believe me then your lying to yourself.

Murray took Roddick out in straight sets in 2006. This is 2009 and Murray is 10 times the player he was then. Roddick doesn't have a prayer against Murray on grass.

Cyan
05-19-2009, 03:44 PM
LOL @ the moron putting Rafa as 4th on grass....

coloskier
05-19-2009, 06:08 PM
There is one "little" difference. Nadal actually won Wimbledon last year.

Using your rationale, since Fed just beat Nadal on clay in their last matchup ON CLAY, Fed is the best claycourt player. I know you didn't really mean it that way. Let's compare apples to apples. If Nadal wins Wimbledon this year, then they would be 2-2 against each other at Wimbledon, and Nadal would still have a few more Wimbledons to win to catch Fed. If Fed beat Nadal at RG this year, Nadal would still be the best player on clay because he has won so many in a row.

Noveson
05-19-2009, 06:14 PM
grass:
1 federer 2 nadal 3 murray 4 djokovic 5 safin

clay
1 federer(no excuse to get crushed in straight sets as most recent result) 2 nadal 3 djokovic 4 roddick 5 ferrer

hard
1 federer 2 murray 3 nadal 4 roddick 5 djokovic

Are you challenged?

Noveson
05-19-2009, 06:16 PM
Grass
1. Fed
2. Nadal
3. Djokovic

Hard (Real hardcourt aka US open)
1. Federer
2. Nadal
3. Murray
4. Djokovic

Clay
1. Nadal
2. Fed/Djokovic - Toss-up either way distant second

Some people are so dumb

veroniquem
05-19-2009, 06:22 PM
Using your rationale, since Fed just beat Nadal on clay in their last matchup ON CLAY, Fed is the best claycourt player. I know you didn't really mean it that way. Let's compare apples to apples. If Nadal wins Wimbledon this year, then they would be 2-2 against each other at Wimbledon, and Nadal would still have a few more Wimbledons to win to catch Fed. If Fed beat Nadal at RG this year, Nadal would still be the best player on clay because he has won so many in a row.
It really depends if you mean top CURRENT 5 players or top 5 players over their all career. Since Murray and Djoko are still extrememly young and I really don't know how anyone could claim to evaluate overall careers when they have hardly started, I will consider we're talking current. Nadal is the current queen's and wimbledon champion on grass, no way you can relegate him to 4th or 5th position for any reason.
About clay, Madrid is not a slam, so your reasoning is totally bogus. Even if you wanted to include masters to help determine the best clay player, Nadal has won 2 out of 3 and played 3 finals, so Federer's only title would not put him first on the surface no matter how you look at it.

veroniquem
05-19-2009, 06:28 PM
Some people are so dumb
Federer fans are getting so desperate they are now claiming AO is not a "real" hard court and the only reason for that claim is that Fed didn't win it this year. I can't wait to see what the USO will be called when Fed stumbles there too. The time will come soon where poor hapless Fed fans will have nowhere to hide!

tvp900
05-19-2009, 06:31 PM
I agree with the original list. The only thing I'd change is I'd switch Roddick and Djokovic in hard courts, because Roddick's beaten him twice this year.

Bundey
05-19-2009, 06:33 PM
Grass:
1. Federer
2. Nadal
3. Murray
4. Djokovic
5. Roddick

Clay:
1. Nadal
2. Djokovic
3. Federer
4. Verdasco
5. Ferrer

Hard:
1. Nadal
2. Murray
3. Federer
4. Djokovic
5. Del Potro/Verdasco

jamesblakefan#1
05-19-2009, 06:39 PM
Grass:
1. Federer
2. Nadal
3. Murray
4. Djokovic
5. Roddick

Clay:
1. Nadal
2. Djokovic
3. Federer
4. Verdasco
5. Ferrer

Hard:
1. Nadal
2. Murray
3. Federer
4. Djokovic
5. Del Potro/Verdasco

I still think Roddick's being vastly overrated on grass. Maybe because of his accomplishments. But recent history says he can't beat great players on grass. And he went out 2R Wimbledon last yr. Not to specifically call you out, b/c you're not the only one.

gj011
05-19-2009, 06:42 PM
I still think Roddick's being vastly overrated on grass. Maybe because of his accomplishments. But recent history says he can't beat great players on grass. And he went out 2R Wimbledon last yr. Not to specifically call you out, b/c you're not the only one.

I agree with you. We are not talking about 2003 and 2004 here. Roddick is not in top 5 on any surface.

Bundey
05-19-2009, 07:27 PM
I still think Roddick's being vastly overrated on grass. Maybe because of his accomplishments. But recent history says he can't beat great players on grass. And he went out 2R Wimbledon last yr. Not to specifically call you out, b/c you're not the only one.

Well who would you put ahead of him? I'll admit I was scraping at the bottom of the barrel with him, but he does have two Wimbledon finals I believe....

jamesblakefan#1
05-19-2009, 07:37 PM
Well who would you put ahead of him? I'll admit I was scraping at the bottom of the barrel with him, but he does have two Wimbledon finals I believe....

Yeah, the grass field isn't as deep as the other surfaces. I'd put the top 4, plus Tsonga, IMO his game is perfect for grass, didn't play Wimby last yr, lost Rof16 in 07 to Gasquet. I'd also have maybe Verdasco, Gasquet pre suspension, after that it's a toss up. I just don't think Roddick's a "great" grass court player. Good, but not great.

clayman2000
05-19-2009, 08:15 PM
I agree with you. We are not talking about 2003 and 2004 here. Roddick is not in top 5 on any surface.

Sorry but i dont understand why he wouldnt be at least top 5 on hard court, considering he beat Djokovic twice and made 2 semis and 1 qf on the big hard court tourney's

And on grass, Roddick has stumpled two of the last 3 years becuase of injury. In 06 he got hurt at RG and last year he got hurt in Rome. Then he has 1 tournament to get ready for the only major grass court event;; kinda hard when your injured.

How can Tsonga and Gasquet be rated over Roddick? Has Tsonga ever played a match on grass. And gasquet has not made it past the R16 in any Masters of Slam tourney in over a year.

Tennis360
05-19-2009, 08:27 PM
Grass:
1. Federer
2. Nadal
3. Murray
4. Djokovic
5. Roddick



Is this supposedly based on previous results? if so, I would question why Murray will be included and not Gasquet or Ancic. and I was amazed at how many have actually put Murray as better on grass. on hard court, yes, but on grass? .....eventhough he beat Gasquet last year at Wimby....his best finish on grass so far -Wimby and Queens QF and no grass court title. Gasquet has two grasscourt titles, QF Queens, and 1 wimby semi. Ancic on the other hand, was the first teenager to win (defeating Fed) his wimby debut on center court since Borg, reached Wimby SF and QF and had 2 grass court titles as well. Or, are we talking about future results here?

(I don't have problem with the others on the list though) :)

jamesblakefan#1
05-19-2009, 08:40 PM
Is this supposedly based on previous results? if so, I would question why Murray will be included and not Gasquet or Ancic. and I was amazed at how many have actually put Murray as better on grass. on hard court, yes, but on grass? .....eventhough he beat Gasquet last year at Wimby....his best finish on grass so far -Wimby and Queens QF and no grass court title. Gasquet has two grasscourt titles, QF Queens, and 1 wimby semi. Ancic on the other hand, was the first teenager to win (defeating Fed) his wimby debut on center court since Borg, reached Wimby SF and QF and had 2 grass court titles as well. Or, are we talking about future results here?

(I don't have problem with the others on the list though) :)

I think it's based on current form and recent results. History is measured, but current form is more important.

Marcel Granoller Bar
05-19-2009, 10:42 PM
Clay:
1. Nadal
2. Federer
3. Djokovic
4. Hewitt (has rediscovered retreiving skills)
5. Alberto Barasuttegui (can retreive as good as Hewitt)

Grass:
1. Federer
2. Nadal
3. Karlovic
4. Dick Norman (as tall as Karlovic)
5. Yao Ming (taller then Karlovic)

Hard:
1. Federer
2. Nadal
3. A. Murray
4. J. Murray
5. Jamie Yzaga (beat Sampras twice at the USO)

Blinkism
05-20-2009, 01:56 AM
Based on ranking points, not my personal opinion
it is

HARD COURTS
===========
1. Nadal : 3525
2. Murray : 2620
3. Roddick : 2070
4. Federer : 2010
5. Djokovic : 2000
6. Tsonga : 1305
7. Del Potro : 1285
8. Verdasco : 1230
9. Stepanek : 1030
10. Cilic : 900
11. Simon : 820
12. Ferrer : 795
13. Fish : 555
14. Blake : 370
15. Nalbandian: 295

CLAY COURTS
===========
1. Nadal : 3180
2. Federer : 1450
3. Djokovic : 1220
4. Robredo : 995
5. Gonzalez : 790
6. Monaco : 685
7. Almagro : 640
8. Verdasco : 630
9. Wawrinka : 585
10. Acasuso : 560
11. Murray/Del Potro/Davydenko : 550
14. Montanes : 530
15. Ferrer : 500

GRASS COURTS ( 2008 )
============
1.Nadal : 2450
2.Federer : 1850
3.Schuettler : 930
4.Safin : 920
5.Ancic : 620
6.Murray : 610
7.Clement : 606
8.Verdasco : 560
9.Ferrer/Lopez : 500
11.Cilic : 470
12.Karlovic : 460
13.Santoro : 400
14.Gicquel : 390
15.Djokovic : 380

Ranking points don't really tell the whole story,
though, as some players excel in smaller tourneys
like 250's and 500's and rack up more points.
But here's the hard facts for the 2009 season so far
(with Grass court rankings coming from 2008, and clearly skewed by Wimby results).

Knightmace
05-20-2009, 02:11 AM
Men's
Hard Court
1)Rafa Nadal
2)Andy Murray
3)Novak Djokovic
4)Roger Federer
5)JM Del Potro (beat Roddick last yr, Nadal this yr)

Clay Courts
1)Rafa Nadal
2)Roger Federer (2 straight FO Finals, recent win over Nadal)
3)Novak Djokovic (close, but still yet to beat Nadal and get over that hump)
4)Nikolay Davydenko (I say he's the next most accomplished, still a factor when healthy)
5)Andy Roddick (just kidding)
JM Del Potro (more recent sucess)

Grass Courts
1)Rafa Nadal (not just bcus of Wimbledon, also off of win at Queens, knocking off Karlovic, Roddick, and Djokovic)
2)Roger Federer
3)Andy Murray
4)Novak Djokovic
5)JW Tsonga (I think he will make the SF of Wimbledon this yr, didn't get to play last yr unfortunately, hopefully healthy this yr)

Women's
Hard Courts
1)Serena
2)Dinara Safina
3)Elena Dementieva
4)Jelena Jankovic
5)Kuznetsova

Clay Courts (since there is no Henin)
1)Dinara Safina
2)Svetlana Kuznetsova
3)Jelena Jankovic
4)Ana Ivanovic
5)Viktoria Azarenka

Grass Courts
1)Venus
2)Serena
3)..............
3 FO finals for fed

Bundey
05-20-2009, 01:40 PM
Is this supposedly based on previous results? if so, I would question why Murray will be included and not Gasquet or Ancic. and I was amazed at how many have actually put Murray as better on grass. on hard court, yes, but on grass? .....eventhough he beat Gasquet last year at Wimby....his best finish on grass so far -Wimby and Queens QF and no grass court title. Gasquet has two grasscourt titles, QF Queens, and 1 wimby semi. Ancic on the other hand, was the first teenager to win (defeating Fed) his wimby debut on center court since Borg, reached Wimby SF and QF and had 2 grass court titles as well. Or, are we talking about future results here?

(I don't have problem with the others on the list though) :)

Based on how I think he will do at Wimby this year. I would have included Gasquet on there had it not been for coke.