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abudhabi tennis
05-20-2009, 10:30 AM
Why does everyone keep on insisting Nadal was exhausted. After all he only played one set more than Federer in the Semi finals. Surely that would exhaust the "Beast" , the "Bull".

gj011
05-20-2009, 10:32 AM
Because he was indeed exhausted. Not so difficult to figure out.

tudwell
05-20-2009, 10:33 AM
He's not very physically fit.

mandy01
05-20-2009, 10:34 AM
Dont worry..had Nadal won he'd be the ultimate physical specimen :D Just how it goes. :wink:
Rafael Nadal never loses when he's not tired and injured :mrgreen:

OddJack
05-20-2009, 10:36 AM
Good thing he gets exhusted. Players who struggle to win a match get exhusted, very natural. Part of the game, put up or shut up.

I hope he gets exhusted again, so Roger can beat him again at FO.
That's all it matters.

Swissv2
05-20-2009, 10:36 AM
Nadal gets more tired than any other player in the history of the game. He is just a world of tired tiredness when he is tired. It's tiring watching how tired he moves his tired body when hes exhausted. If he encounters and Djokos or Murrays or makes it to the final round, you can guarentee hes exhausted unlike any others.

sureshs
05-20-2009, 10:36 AM
He forgot to take his performance enhancing supplements that day.



























I meant carrot juice. Don't twist my words.

Nadal_Freak
05-20-2009, 10:38 AM
A 2 hour match with Verdasco and a 4 hour match with Djokovic in back-to-back days did the trick. Too bad there wasn't a day between the Semis and Finals. I think the top players that have byes should start on Tuesday and have Saturday off to recover after 4 straight days of tennis so we see a high level final. ;)

checkmilu
05-20-2009, 10:38 AM
Nadal was not exhausted but tired mentally, lacks of will to win. Deep in side he knew that this tournament is not as important as the FO. At the same time, Fed played great. No excuse

datsveryinterestin
05-20-2009, 10:39 AM
My personal opinion is that he was tired and his leg was not 100%.
He "could" have tried harder, but I think he was advised by his team to not go "all out" and risk his record 5th consecutive French Open title. He competed, and was outplayed by Federer, but I think we shall see the real Rafa return at Roland Garros.

That Djokovic semi-final was the final for Rafa. He was pushed to the limit and found a way to win, but it cost him because it took a lot out of him and strained his legs. If Roger had mis-fired on serves and backhands and shanked forehands, Rafa still could've won, but an improved Federer against a sluggish Rafa and I am pretty sure he was told not to push it into a marathon 3 set battle.

In the process, he gives Roger a trophy, which no champion wants to do, but Rafa's eyes are on the prize at the end of the RG2009!

Summary : rafa gave roger a wedding present! ;)

drakulie
05-20-2009, 10:40 AM
Why does everyone keep on insisting Nadal was exhausted. After all he only played one set more than Federer in the Semi finals. Surely that would exhaust the "Beast" , the "Bull".


They are just Nadal Haters who want us all to believe the most fit guy on tour is a wuss. >>>> I'm not buying.

drakulie
05-20-2009, 10:43 AM
A 2 hour match with Verdasco and a 4 hour match with Djokovic in back-to-back days did the trick. Too bad there wasn't a day between the Semis and Finals. I think the top players that have byes should start on Tuesday and have Saturday off to recover after 4 straight days of tennis so we see a high level final. ;)


We did. Unfortunately for you, the high level of play came from the new KING OF CLAY.

datsveryinterestin
05-20-2009, 10:45 AM
For those unaware, Drakulie stalks and trolls me daily and posts lies about me daily!!!

drakulie
05-20-2009, 11:02 AM
For those unaware, Drakulie stalks and trolls me daily and posts lies about me daily!!!


Quiet!

http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/555-1/forcefall.gif


or I'll make you put Gina back up in your avatar!

EtePras
05-20-2009, 12:20 PM
Nadal fans know that he is an incredibly unfit, unathletic player and willingly admit it when they say Nadal is always tired.

bluetrain4
05-20-2009, 12:26 PM
There's been about a hundred threads relating to the the "fallout" from the Madrid Masters on every possible subject regarding Nadal and Fed. Legitimate discussions, impassioned arguments, and, unfortunately, direct and indirect attacks on Fed and Nadal and their fans.

I have to laugh because I don't think I've ever seen a match of this relative insignificance (key word: relative. I'm not saying it wasn't significant, but in the larger context of Slams and the players' entire careers, it was relatively insignifcant), cause such a fervor.

King of Aces
05-20-2009, 12:32 PM
Why does everyone keep on insisting Nadal was exhausted. After all he only played one set more than Federer in the Semi finals. Surely that would exhaust the "Beast" , the "Bull".

I have note heard anyone use that reason.

cknobman
05-20-2009, 12:53 PM
Its an excuse so of course it will be used.

T1000
05-20-2009, 12:55 PM
so when nadal finally loses to federer *******s can say he was tired

Voltron
05-20-2009, 01:01 PM
They are just Nadal Haters who want us all to believe the most fit guy on tour is a wuss. >>>> I'm not buying.
Agreed, doesn't it seem strange that some people on this forum will speak of Nadal being the most fit on the tour and exhausted by a normal schedule in the same breath.
We did. Unfortunately for you, the high level of play came from the new KING OF CLAY.

Yep, Roger finally did it. :lol:

vtmike
05-20-2009, 01:07 PM
I have note heard anyone use that reason.

Oh really........:roll:

I agree. What a joke of the match. Federer should thank Djokovic and a cakewalk draw he had here for beating tired Nadal.

The real final was yesterday anyway.

Nadal did not recover enough to beat Federer. End of story. Very rare do you see Nadal tired. This is one of those times.

Everybody said Nadal was tired: the commentators, the press, Nadal himself...
BTW he was not only tired from the 4 hour marathon encounter less than 24 hours earlier, he also had the mileage of his 4th consecutive clay final.

Heres another one in case you are "tired"... :)

I think Nadal actually gets more nervous in front of his fans. He seems to prefer a more Fed fan crowd. lol See RG for what I mean.

RalphNYC
05-20-2009, 01:10 PM
Federer's a better tennis player than Nadal. That much I think we can all agree on?

datsveryinterestin
05-20-2009, 01:14 PM
we shall see on May 31st!

i am THRILLED that federer might be back though. i hope he enjoyed his wife-taking/baby-making vacation!!!!

King of Aces
05-20-2009, 01:23 PM
Oh really........:roll:


Well I do not agree that Nadal was tired.

Nadal lost for 4 reasons:

1- Federer was the better player that day

2- The conditions favored Federer as the altitude of Madrid makes the ball fly a bit quicker

3- The clay in Spain is very different than the clay in France. In spain its sort of a dusty sandy surface but in France it is crushed brick

4- Nadal was tired....JUST KIDDING . ;)




Heres another one in case you are "tired"... :)[/QUOTE]

Cyan
05-20-2009, 02:03 PM
Nadal was TIRED. Period.

Serendipitous
05-20-2009, 02:06 PM
Nadal was tired. He said himself he wasn't at 100%. End of discussion.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/1/en/news/newsarticle_3698.asp


Let's not argue with Nadal, okay?

mandy01
05-20-2009, 02:09 PM
Nadal was tired. He said himself he wasn't at 100%. End of discussion.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/1/en/news/newsarticle_3698.asp


Let's not argue with Nadal, okay?
Then next time,dont argue when Roger says he had bad back , mono or whatever.
He too has a right to give his reasons.

Serendipitous
05-20-2009, 02:11 PM
Then next time,dont argue when Roger says he had bad back , mono or whatever.
He too has a right to give his reasons.

Lol, I never said anything about Roger giving excuses. I have no doubt that he was injured when he said he was injured.

You really need to chill. No one's dissing Roger.

I think he played well and deserved the title.

I'm just saying Nadal wasn't at 100%.

bruce38
05-20-2009, 02:15 PM
Lol, I never said anything about Roger giving excuses. I have no doubt that he was injured when he said he was injured.

You really need to chill. No one's dissing Roger.

I think he played well and deserved the title.

I'm just saying Nadal wasn't at 100%.

How can you say Roger was deserving if the other player was hurt or tired?

Serendipitous
05-20-2009, 02:16 PM
How can you say Roger was deserving if the other player was hurt or tired?

Roger played very well.

bruce38
05-20-2009, 02:18 PM
Roger played very well.

But according to you that "very well" play was only possible in the context of Nadal being tired or hurt. So it's not a genuine "very well".

mandy01
05-20-2009, 02:20 PM
Lol, I never said anything about Roger giving excuses. I have no doubt that he was injured when he said he was injured.

You really need to chill. No one's dissing Roger.

I think he played well and deserved the title.

I'm just saying Nadal wasn't at 100%. OK we agree then :D
A match contains various components and if Nadal says he was tired I'll take his word for it.
His fans need to stop going overboard though.

Serendipitous
05-20-2009, 02:21 PM
But according to you that "very well" play was only possible in the context of Nadal being tired or hurt. So it's not a genuine "very well".

Okay, if you insist.

Nadal's energy level has no affect on Federer's play. Federer can play badly or he can play very well. That day he played very well.

So he won.

Serendipitous
05-20-2009, 02:22 PM
OK we agree then :D
A match contains various components and if Nadal says he was tired I'll take his word for it.
His fans need to stop going overboard though.


Good! I'm glad we agree!

Life is good when people agree. :)

P_Agony
05-20-2009, 02:23 PM
I've yet to see a Nadal fan other than The-Champ giving Federer credit for his win.

raiden031
05-20-2009, 02:28 PM
Does being tired during this match reflect negatively on Nadal as a tennis player in any way? That is the real question.

Does being tired mean that we didn't see the "real" Nadal which means there is nothing negative about being tired.

Or does being tired mean that Nadal has a flaw as a player, which is 1) his fitness is sub-par for his style of game or 2) Nadal is not capable of winning in a more efficient way as to preserve energy because he is not that much better than his opponents?

bruce38
05-20-2009, 02:28 PM
Okay, if you insist.

Nadal's energy level has no affect on Federer's play. Federer can play badly or he can play very well. That day he played very well.

So he won.

I didn't insist anything. I'm just trying to clarify your contradictory statements. Of course Nadal's energy level would affect how well Federer plays. If he's tired and can't reach certain balls, those shots by Federer would appears as winners whereas normally they would not. Thus making Federer's play appear better that it is. Just be consistent in your analysis.

gj011
05-20-2009, 02:30 PM
I've yet to see a Nadal fan other than The-Champ giving Federer credit for his win.

I have yet to see Federer fan give Djokovic credit for wins in Miami and Rome SFs.

These were both clean wins against rested opponent.

Serendipitous
05-20-2009, 02:31 PM
I didn't insist anything. I'm just trying to clarify your contradictory statements. Of course Nadal's energy level would affect how well Federer plays. If he's tired and can't reach certain balls, those shots by Federer would appears as winners whereas normally they would not. Thus making Federer's play appear better that it is. Just be consistent in your analysis.

It sounds as if you're saying that Federer didn't deserve the victory.

I said Federer deserved it and you're arguing with me.

bruce38
05-20-2009, 02:31 PM
Does being tired during this match reflect negatively on Nadal as a tennis player in any way? That is the real question.

Does being tired mean that we didn't see the "real" Nadal which means there is nothing negative about being tired.

Or does being tired mean that Nadal has a flaw as a player, which is 1) his fitness is sub-par for his style of game or 2) Nadal is not capable of winning in a more efficient way as to preserve energy because he is not that much better than his opponents?

I'd say it reflects very negatively. Fitness is a part of tennis just as natural skill is. It just goes to show how hard he has to push to match the best players (and beat them at the moment). He will eventually not be able to maintain this level and will fall off sooner than someone like Fed who expends a lot less energy to accomplish similar feats.

bruce38
05-20-2009, 02:33 PM
It sounds as if you're saying that Federer didn't deserve the victory.

I said Federer deserved it and you're arguing with me.

I'm not saying anything. I'm trying to make your words consistent. You can't on the one hand claim Nadal was tired (i.e. did not play his best) and then in the next breath say Fed deserved it. Would you feel deserving if you beat your rival but he was playing with a broken toe?

I do think Fed deserved it, but I don't believe Nadal was tired, I believe he was outplayed. Do you see the consistency? Try it, you might like it.

Serendipitous
05-20-2009, 02:35 PM
I'm not saying anything. I'm trying to make your words consistent. You can't on the one hand claim Nadal was tired (i.e. did not play his best) and then in the next breath say Fed deserved it. Would you feel deserving if you beat your rival but he was playing with a broken toe?

I do think Fed deserved it, but I don't believe Nadal was tried, I believe he was outplayed. Do you see the consistency? Try it, you might like it.

Please - we don't need those little snide comments.

Nadal wasn't at 100% (as he himself said).

Federer played very well. He served well and hit his ground strokes well.

Federer deserved it because he played very well.

Done.

bruce38
05-20-2009, 02:37 PM
Please - we don't need those little snide comments.

Nadal wasn't at 100% (as he himself said).

Federer played very well. He served well and hit his ground strokes well.

Federer deserved it because he played very well.

Done.

You just don't seem to get it. Ok forget it.

FuriousYellow
05-20-2009, 02:38 PM
Why the doubt? It wasn't just the extra time he put in Madrid. He played in the Finals of Rome, Barcelona, Monte Carlo, and Indian Wells and the semis in Miami. That's a lot of tennis for two months.

Serendipitous
05-20-2009, 02:38 PM
You just don't seem to get it. Ok forget it.

Okay, let's forget it.

Have a nice day...

TheTruth
05-20-2009, 04:18 PM
I would think he was tired from lifting all those trophies he's won this season. How many is it, now? five? Three of them back-to-back-to-back? Four in a row would be sacrilegious. Being tired should have a cumulative effect I would think.

TheTruth
05-20-2009, 04:24 PM
I have yet to see Federer fan give Djokovic credit for wins in Miami and Rome SFs.

These were both clean wins against rested opponent.

That's very true. Djokovic got no credit at all.

maddogz32
05-20-2009, 04:34 PM
that is a legit excuse for nadal to use
he has played so many tournaments back to back
i bet he is physically exhausted

kraggy
05-20-2009, 05:54 PM
I've yet to see a Nadal fan other than The-Champ giving Federer credit for his win.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=261643

Bad case of amnesia for you Agony, you even posted in this thread?! Be careful when you make blatant statements.

King of Aces
05-21-2009, 06:04 AM
I've yet to see a Nadal fan other than The-Champ giving Federer credit for his win.

I have.

Federer won because he was the better player that day on those courts in the best of 3 sets.....

Federer played great!

rommil
05-21-2009, 06:20 AM
I have yet to see Federer fan give Djokovic credit for wins in Miami and Rome SFs.

These were both clean wins against rested opponent.

Djokovic has yet to put up better results to be included in a discussion with names like Federer and Nadal. So yeah, come back when it happens.

rommil
05-21-2009, 06:21 AM
That's very true. Djokovic got no credit at all.

Yeah, I heard his credit score's so bad he can't get a loan.

vtmike
05-21-2009, 06:23 AM
Yeah, I heard his credit score's so bad he can't get a loan.

LMAO!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

rafan
05-21-2009, 06:31 AM
If that had been one of the big matches Rafa would have gone for it

cknobman
05-21-2009, 06:43 AM
If that had been one of the big matches Rafa would have gone for it

Since when is a master series final not a big match? Especially one that if he had won Nadal would have been the only player in history to win all 3 clay masters in a single season.

I think it was a big match. Maybe not GS big but still ranks high enough up there. And since when did Nadal stop going for it in any match?

sh@de
05-21-2009, 06:46 AM
If that had been one of the big matches Rafa would have gone for it

Right... I don't buy it.

Just my opinion!

rafan
05-21-2009, 07:42 AM
Since when is a master series final not a big match? Especially one that if he had won Nadal would have been the only player in history to win all 3 clay masters in a single season.

I think it was a big match. Maybe not GS big but still ranks high enough up there. And since when did Nadal stop going for it in any match?

Nadal was exhausted at the AO but he found just that extra energy to come through. This time it just wasn't there - he didn't go into top gear the way he did at the AO and I still think he could have - but RG is so soon so why strain himself

kraggy
05-21-2009, 07:55 AM
I don't think the physical and mental tiredness can be used as an excuse in the sense of " the match doesn't count" . That would be very foolish to say especially when a lot of Nadal's victories are precisely because he beats his opponents by wearing them down physically and mentally! If you are fit enough to play through a match , the result always counts!

That being said, just in terms of the fight Nadal put in , I wouldn't rate Madrid as one of his best efforts. Of course Federer executed his gameplan quite beautifully. But I could almost see Nadal resigned to his fate after Fed took the lead in the first set, rather than the Nadal who usually goes from 100% to 120%, when he is down. I don't think Nadal would have gone down so tamely had this been the FO final. As regards to the comparison with the AO final where Nadal has played a brutal 5-setter in the semi, I don't think you can deny that winning the AO ( his first hardcourt slam) meant a lot more to Nadal than winning the Madrid event.

Of course, this is all fairly subjective. I do believe the FO will be a much better indication though of whether Fed and Djoker have actually caught up to Nadal or whether Madrid was just a one off thing. Should be very interesting.

raiden031
05-21-2009, 08:02 AM
That being said, just in terms of the fight Nadal put in , I wouldn't rate Madrid as one of his best efforts. Of course Federer executed his gameplan quite beautifully. But I could almost see Nadal resigned to his fate after Fed took the lead in the first set, rather than the Nadal who usually goes from 100% to 120%, when he is down. I don't think Nadal would have gone down so tamely had this been the FO final. As regards to the comparison with the AO final where Nadal has played a brutal 5-setter in the semi, I don't think you can deny that winning the AO ( his first hardcourt slam) meant a lot more to Nadal than winning the Madrid event.


I guess you could say the same thing about some of Federer's losses to Nadal. There are times he probably didn't have 100% desire to win, which was clear by the FO 2008 final where he gave up long before the match was over.


Of course, this is all fairly subjective. I do believe the FO will be a much better indication though of whether Fed and Djoker have actually caught up to Nadal or whether Madrid was just a one off thing. Should be very interesting.

I definitely think that Madrid is very different than FO because of the court surface, and that Nadal didn't have the desire to win it. Probably because he knew it would be a challenge ahead of time due to the surface and that it was so close to FO and too risky to burn himself out.

---

I think the main point is that this shows that 1) Nadal does have to try his best to beat the likes of Federer and even Djokovic these days, and 2) His grinding style of game takes a very real toll on his mind and body. This is why I don't think his domination will remain for very long. There is no way he is at #1 for more than 2 years total in my book.

kraggy
05-21-2009, 08:18 AM
I think the main point is that this shows that 1) Nadal does have to try his best to beat the likes of Federer and even Djokovic these days, and 2) His grinding style of game takes a very real toll on his mind and body. This is why I don't think his domination will remain for very long. There is no way he is at #1 for more than 2 years total in my book.

So i partially agree with you here. Nadal's USP is a combination of his talent and mental will/physical ability. Federer's USP is mainly his talent. If the two were to play a casual game of street tennis where only talent played a role, I think more often than not Federer would win. But when they play a serious match, the mental aspect plays a big role and hence Nadal wins a lot. Based on this, I would say that Nadal's sort of 'giving up' at Madrid was more uncharacteristic of him than Feds 'giving up' at the FO 2008.

I do disagree however that he only has a 2 yr shelf life. I think Nadal is constantly evolving and he and Uncle Tony will definitely focus on an improved serve to win some more Free points. We have already seen how he has been able to improve on difference surfaces, improve his backhand etc.

Also if you look at the points race, Nadal doesnt really need to play as many tournaments as he does! He has a 4000 pt lead . He doesn't need such a huge lead. He can remain number 1 for more than 2 yrs if he schedules his tournaments intelligently and aims at having a 1k lead rather than a 4k one!