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View Full Version : Nadal Clay 5.0 (Poll)


bolo
05-20-2009, 12:56 PM
Which version of nadal is better? Imo looked very unclayey this year, but arguably his best clay court season ever. Very impressive overall.

Cesc Fabregas
05-20-2009, 12:59 PM
Imo he brought his proper clay court game to Barcelona and Rome where he didn't drop a set in either.

bolo
05-20-2009, 01:01 PM
Imo he brought his proper clay court game to Barcelona and Rome where he didn't drop a set in either.

You have to vote cesc. :)

Cesc Fabregas
05-20-2009, 01:03 PM
You have to vote cesc. :)

Ok I voted pirate pants Nadal :).

T1000
05-20-2009, 01:04 PM
when did nadal ever serve and volley for a whole match? once every 20 serves doesnt count

bolo
05-20-2009, 01:07 PM
when did nadal ever serve and volley for a whole match? once every 20 serves doesnt count

You are right, did that too fast. It should be ALL-Court Nadal since he finished quite a few points at the net that season, actually had some very interesting W/UE ratios for clay (IIRC). But then at RG he went cold turkey on the net as usual.

maddogz32
05-20-2009, 05:30 PM
he was better on clay before he was number 1, but he is still the best

imalil2gangsta4u
05-20-2009, 05:35 PM
I think last year he played his best on clay

bolo
05-20-2009, 05:45 PM
Ok, so I just calculated games lost per set played for nadal in 2009, 2008, 2007 and 2005. I didn't include roland garros in these calculations and these include the clay tournaments before RG, starting with either monte carlo or monaco in a given year.

2009 3.13 games lost per set played
2008 3.34 games lost per set played
2007 3.13 games lost per set played
2005 2.95 games lost per set played

In 2005 he played a ton more clay tournaments in the early and latter parts of the year. If you include every set he played on clay that year instead of just MC, Rome and Barcelona as above you get 3.08.

There is not a lot here between these stats. But those 2005 numbers are scary. But in 2005 he skipped hamburg because he was tired after winning MC, Barcelona and Rome; still not strong enough to take a stab at the 4th big one. In later years, when he is stronger, he plays hamburg and now madrid and that hurts his averages (he was dead man walking in 2007 hamburg). So I just compare MC, Rome, Barcelona results for each of these years

2009 2.62
2008 3.04
2007 2.84
2005 2.95

That chances the ordering quite a bit, this looks to be his best year.

Personally, I prefer 2005 or 2007 over 2008 or 2009 versions. He was a better mover on clay in 2005, more nimble (ofcourse also due to more practice on the surface). But by 2007 he had added a consistent DTL forehand on clay, a better serve and he still had that devastating margin for error on all his shots. All these versions are very different and it's fun to think about how they match up with each other.

I might redo all of these numbers after RG this year.

veroniquem
05-20-2009, 05:56 PM
Ok, so I just calculated games lost per set played for nadal in 2009, 2008, 2007 and 2005. I didn't include roland garros in these calculations and these include the clay tournaments before RG, starting with either monte carlo or monaco in a given year.

2009 3.13 games lost per set played
2008 3.34 games lost per set played
2007 3.13 games lost per set played
2005 2.95 games lost per set played

In 2005 he played a ton more clay tournaments in the early and latter parts of the year. If you include every set he played on clay that year instead of just MC, Rome and Barcelona as above you get 3.08.

There is not a lot here between these stats. But those 2005 numbers are scary. But in 2005 he skipped hamburg because he was tired after winning MC, Barcelona and Rome; still not strong enough to take a stab at the 4th big one. In later years, when he is stronger, he plays hamburg and now madrid and that hurts his averages (he was dead man walking in 2007 hamburg). So I just compare MC, Rome, Barcelona results for each of these years

2009 2.62
2008 3.04
2007 2.84
2005 2.95

That chances the ordering quite a bit, this looks to be his best year.

Personally, I prefer 2005 or 2007 over 2008 or 2009 versions. He was a better mover on clay in 2005, more nimble (ofcourse also due to more practice on the surface). But by 2007 he had added a consistent DTL forehand on clay, a better serve and he still had that devastating margin for error on all his shots. All these versions are very different and it's fun to think about how they match up with each other.

I might redo all of these numbers after RG this year.
Wow captivating! But why is 2006 missing?
I hope tennis-hero is around. Those stats confirm my intuitive impression that 2007 and 2009 have been his most consistently dominant years on clay so far.

bolo
05-20-2009, 05:58 PM
Wow captivating! But why is 2006 missing?


lazy and for some reason I don't find his clay court play from that year that memorable. :)

bolo
05-20-2009, 06:02 PM
Wow captivating! But why is 2006 missing?
I hope tennis-hero is around. Those stats confirm my intuitive impression that 2007 and 2009 have been his most consistently dominant years on clay so far.

I think we have to include RG to get the full picture. If we did that 2008 will probably rise and 2005 fall further. Possible 2008 might even push past 2007 at that point. But this looks to be his best year, knock on wood.

veroniquem
05-20-2009, 06:08 PM
lazy and for some reason I don't find his clay court play from that year that memorable. :)
You are absolutely right: in 2006, he lost 2 sets in Monte-Carlo, 1 set in Barcelona, 3 sets in Rome and 3 sets at RG. A great year nonetheless but definitely not the best ;-)

tonyg11
05-20-2009, 06:14 PM
how can people even think of making threads like this without pics? learn2internet

veroniquem
05-20-2009, 06:14 PM
I think we have to include RG to get the full picture. If we did that 2008 will probably rise and 2005 fall further. Possible 2008 might even push past 2007 at that point. But this looks to be his best year, knock on wood.
Yes, knock on wood, cross fingers and anti-jinx, but it's fascinating how Rafa seems to be still improving on clay. This year looks like it could be his best ever which is mindboggling considering how good he has been before. Is there any other year when he won 2 of the pre-RG tournaments without losing a set and when he arrived at RG having played 4 events and lost only 4 sets in all of them combined (3 of which in the same event, the last one)?

bolo
05-20-2009, 06:21 PM
You are absolutely right: in 2006, he lost 2 sets in Monte-Carlo, 1 set in Barcelona, 3 sets in Rome and 3 sets at RG. A great year nonetheless but definitely not the best ;-)

He had that one great match against hewitt at RG 06. I have to watch that match again at some point.

bolo
05-20-2009, 06:22 PM
how can people even think of making threads like this without pics? learn2internet

lol, that's a good idea.....but things are hectic right now.

bolo
05-20-2009, 06:34 PM
Yes, knock on wood, cross fingers and anti-jinx, but it's fascinating how Rafa seems to be still improving on clay. This year looks like it could be his best ever which is mindboggling considering how good he has been before. Is there any other year when he won 2 of the pre-RG tournaments without losing a set and when he arrived at RG having played 4 events and lost only 4 sets in all of them combined (3 of which in the same event, the last one)?

Good question, it looks like in 2007 he won MC and Barcelona without losing a set. He also lost 4 sets in that year, one to davydenko at Rome, one to hewitt at Hamburg and 2 to federer at hamburg. But to be fair in 2005 he had to play some best of 5 setters towards the end of tournaments versus coria.